circumstances, you can argue that you don't even have to be -- go to trial. that's what he's arguing. it's a tough case for him, i think. >> it's a really uphill battle, for a lot of reasons. he is saying, because i lived in pennsylvania avenue, that's all i have to have, to have immunity in these cases. and the court will look at this through the lens of the wild, wild west novel argument. many people, jeffrey, as you know, and you've written the book on the supreme court, they will have the assumption on who appointed these judges. that's not the case. >> it's a pretty good guy, in these politically charged cases. this is just the d.c. circuit court of appeals. this could go to the supreme court. tomorrow's hearing is just before the three-judge panel.

and for those keeping score at home, it's two democratic appointees and one republican appointee who are hearing this case, which i think lends some optimism to the -- jack smith's team because of that makeup. it's also true, this argument for donald trump is a pretty extraordinary stretch. remember when we covered the mueller investigation. and there was much sdiscussion that there's is a justice department policy. not a law, but a policy, that says a sitting president should not be indicted. implicit in that policy, of course, he could be indicted later for something he did. that's always been the assumption. gerald ford pardoned richard nixon for his crimes in watergate. if he couldn't be prosecuted, there would be no need for a

po pardon. >> for a former president, for conduct while in office. >> that's what the pardon was for. everyone assumed without the pardon, he could be prosecuted. once you are out of office, you are an order citizen like everyone else. >> interestingly enough, people think about, this is decided on conservative viewpoints or liberal viewpoints. thinking of the constitution and the text, which is not there, first of all. also, the legal common sense of it. i don't see this being decided on if this is a liberal judge, versus a conservative wing of the judges. this is the question -- can a president enjoy absolute immunity for things in office? do you see it that way? >> the point you made about the text is important. conservatives say, they believe that the constitution should be

interpreted only on what's in the text. there's nothing in the constitution about abortion. so, there is no constitutional right to abortion. say conservatives. here, there's nothing in the constitution that says the president enjoys immunity. in fact, everything suggests that after four years -- going back to george washington, you are returning to civilian life where you have the same rights as everyone else, including the right and the opportunity, to be calling it that, to be charged with a crime. >> opportunity is not the word he wants to use. does the argument surround of who is constructionist, hold on, it's not really there. versus those thinking it is a living document, that it's susceptible to have interpretations.

it's not untimely and akdoes th go away? when you don't have the language, it becomes a matter of what was intended here? somebody who has taken an oath or somebody who is the former president of the united states or the president of the united states, they can do whatever they want and be the head of the executive branch of government? >> this is why jack smith the prosecutor is in such good shape in this case. either interpretation, it says something about presidential immunity from crimes. and the living constitution approach, that says and implies the president is not love the law, both approaches suggest that trump can face trial. even if trump loses in the d.c. circuit, however, there's a way he could win, which is the issue

of timing. this case is now stayed. there's a stay where the trial date is set for may but the case is not proceeding to trial because of the pendency of the appeal. what's interesting is not how they rule but whether they continue the stay. whether the d.c. circuit or the supreme court says, okay, we're going to hear this case but we're going to let the try proceed. that issue, if you are concerned about a trial before the election, the timing is almost as important as the merits of the case. >> this could go to the supreme court. they said they're not going to weigh in on this matter specifically yet. that's why it's in front of the circuit court. it was proceeding in this decision.

they could get this case after the ruling that comes down. probably sooner than later. if it goes before the supreme court. if you're chief justice john robert, you see issues of credibility, the rakes that have stepped on for ethical discussions and beyond. you probably want unanimity here. you want this to be a decisive, not a 6-3, or something different than that. is there a hope that this, if it goes the supreme court on absolute immunity for a president, that unanimity might be on the horizon? >> this argument by president trump is so bad that that's a possibility. remember, in 1974, when richard said, i don't have to turn over the tapes to the watergate special prosecutor. the supreme court, in august of 1974, rejected that view.

the fact that the supreme court, which was not as polarized in those days but had different views on it. the fact they ruled unanimously against the president, made the case irrefutable. it made richard nixon comply and he did turn over the tapes and the tapes sunk his presidency. rogds roberts will want to get unanimity in a case like this. >> if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. that's the old-school way of saying who knows? >> you look at the court and it's much more politically polarized than in many years, probably since the 1930s. they are not unanimous on many controversial cases. >> you mentioned tapes, i'm thinking brad raffensperger and

what's happening in georgia. today, there was a motion by the trump legal team to get rid of that case on the same grounds. immunize one place. does that hold water? you're talking about immunity in a federal court setting. does it translate in the states? >> it depends what the courts hold. if he is immune from criminal prosecution, he's immune in state court, as well. that's why the stakes are enormous. it's not just the january 6th case in washington. it's also the rico case in georgia. potentially also the new york prosecution to go to trial in march. >> that's the hush money payment. >> the hush money payment recording stormy daniels. it would be a tough argument to

make in the mar-a-lago documents case. it seems like all of the criminal conduct alleged there took place after he was president. the stakes in this case, the one being argued tomorrow, are bigger than the january 6th case. >> just in our conversation, we have to clarify which case we're talking about when it relates to donald trump. this is mind-boggling to think. we talked about the carompariso with watergate and beyond. i feel like watergate was a kitten playing with yarn in the full scope of here. this court will look at not just nixon or clinton, but a range of issues. speaking of clinton, i want to make this clear to the audience. there's a lot of questions surrounding this.

so many people are looking at the issue of civil litigation and conduct in office. they think of bill clinton and what that meant. tell me why this is distinction. conduct in office and immunity and prosecution compared to that. >> remember that bill clinton was sued by paula jones for sexual harassment. and the supreme court held in that case, even though ooh he was a sitting president, he could face the civil case. >> i want to go live for a second. we have the ntsb news conference. >> -- both are aerospace engineers for the ntsb. really specialists in str structures, including looking at the airframe, the door plug and the sur rounding structure of the door plug. one of the ntsb's core values is

trans transparency. we believe when there's factual information that has been verified, it's our duty to provide it to the public and to the media. tonight, we have a lot of information that we want to share. i'm going to provide a summary of the event from the flight data recorder. we're going to talk about what our survival group did today. then, i'll talk about our systems group did today. then, we'll have discussions about structures and what the structures group did. for the summary of the flight data recorder -- from the flight d data reporter, i'm going to read it. at 17:06.40 pacific standard time. the aircraft left at portland

international airport. at 17:12.33, the recorded cabin pressure dropped from 14.09 to 11.64 pounds per square inch, when the aircraft was at 14,830 feet and 271 knots, the cabin altitude greater than 10,000 feet warning activated. at 17:12.34, the master caution activated. the cabin pressure dropped to 9.08 psi, at approximately 14,850 feet and 271 knots. at 17:12.52, the master caution

deactivated. at 17:13.41, the aircraft continued to climb and reached a maximum altitude of 16,320 feet and began to descend. the air speed was 267 knots. at 17:13.56, the colselected altitude changed from 23,000 feet to 10,000 feet. at 17:14.35, the master caution activated for three seconds. at 17:16.56, the aircraft began a left turn from 121 degrees. the altitude was approximately 10,120 feet.

at 17:17, the aircraft deskcendd below 10,000 feet. at 18:18, the aircraft was 9,050 feet and the air speed was 271 knots. the cabin altitude greater than 10,000 feet warning deactivated. the cabin pressure was 10.48 psi. at 17:26.46, the aircraft landed on runway 28 left at portland international airport. now, the survival factors team interviewed the remaining two flight attendants. one from the aft of the aircraft and one from forward. their interview and discussion was consistent with the interviews of the other two flight attendants.

they also reported significant crew communications challenges during the event. they didn't know what was occurring. they were certainly concerned. they stated about the four unaccompanied minors and their focus was on them and the three lap children at the time. the two flight attendants in the aft, outboard seats, in the aft galley, had difficulty seeing what was going on in the cabin and in the aisle. it's very difficult from that location to see anything. there's a small mirror provided to look down the aisle. it's not sufficient. it was very difficult for them to see. the flight attendants mentioned

that the communications was so poor they felt like they really nee needed guidance and information. it was a pretty terrifying event. with that said, i know that a lot of media is reaching out to the flight attendants. the interviews have been very emotional. this was a really significant event. with zero information at the time. there's a lot of trauma they are working through. it's going to be a long process. it was terrifying. i would ask -- the ntsb is asking, please give them that time. they are working with peer-to-peer counselors. they need that time to heal. they have asked us to mention

that in this media briefing. we ask that you give them time to process what they experienced. now, the cockpit door. we learned that the cockpit door is designed to open during rapid decompression. no one among the flight crew knew that. they were not informed. so, boeing is going to make some changes to the manual, which then hopefully will translate into procedures and information for the flight attendants and for the crew in the cockpit. as far as the oxygen mask, we weren't sure if it deemployed or if it was stuck. it did deploy. we interviewed the passengers in

that row. they had put the oxygen masks back up in the panel. that's the other thing we suspected. it did deploy and was working. on to systems. our systems group focused on the cabin pressure control system on the aircraft. this is the autopressurization light that illuminated that we have gotten a lot of questions on. this system is designed as a triple redundant system, with one primary cabin pressure controller. it's a computer system. there is a secondary cabin pressure controller. that's a secondary computer system. then, there's a manual controller. there are -- it's a triple

redundant system. if the primary controller fails, the crew switches to the secondary. if that fails, they can switch to manual. any one of these systems is fully capable of maintaining safe cobben pressurization. if either one of the computer systems is inoftive, the faa allows the operator to fly the aircraft. we have verified from the maintenance logs that the redundant system operated on the mode not needing to go into manual mode. at this time, we have no indications that this karlcorred

to the expulsion of the door plug and the rapid decompression. the ntsb is thorough. we will go back and look at the flight data recorder and we will get data on cabin pressure. we're going to download the memory on the cabin pressure controllers. we may have to pull the unit to see why it was acting up. we have asked boeing for a specialist to arrive tomorrow to work through this so we can just go through the rest of it. but again, no indication of any correlation between the two. with respect to the etops restriction, alaska airlines reported to the ntsb that their internal policy is to restrict

aircraft with multiple systems from flying etops flights for a period of time. that's not required by the regulation. that's an extra step alaska put in place. etops is extended twin engine operations. that allows twin engine airplanes to go over a route that is further than three hours flying time, from the nearest airport. the restriction was put in place for alaska to conduct maintenance p. as for the structures, i want to thank bob, that all of the media

successfully outed. bob apparently was a star with his students today. i want to thank the community overall. i can't thank you enough. every time the ntsb asks for help, every time the community pulls through. i want to say thank you to everyone. i want to say thank you to bob. i'm sure he was a hit at school today. that's very exciting. we did go out at 7:00 a.m. this morning to retrieve the door plug. we have still looking for the bottom hinge fitting. and a spring. it's a pretty large spring. the fitting is a green, circular piece with a hole in it. it's not key to the investigation. this is not something that's key

to us determining anything or ruling out anything, which is fine. it's nice to have the pieces if you find it. if anyone does, please call ntsb. e-mail us at witness at ntsb.gov. thank you local law enforcement and the fbi for helping us look throughout the early stages of our investigation. i will mention that community members -- >> we have been hearing from the ntsb as they have given a conference, a press conference on what we learned so far. they detailed a lot of information of what we know from the flight data recorder. and the systems of what system they would have had in place to inform them of reduced cabin pressure. it was a redundant system that told them if one failed another would kick in.

flight attedttendants have been interviews. they are trying to work through what they saw. they had little and poor crew communications at that time. they were unable to see down the aisle. on the four unaccompanied minors on this aircraft. also, three lap children they were concerned about. the cockpit door was designed to actually open during a rapid decompression. no one of the flight crew was aware of that. it added to the drama and the terrifying experience they saw. the oxygen did deploy and was functioning. we're learning about this system.

i want to turn to our panel. cnn director general for the department of temperatures, marian sciala. and miles o'brien, cnn's space analyst. we are learning about what they walked through. beginning with you, mary. the ntsb chair walk through the play-by-play, how it unfolded. going through the flight data recorder. talking about the pressure and the altitude. what stood out to you? what stood it to me was the consistently of the flight. it was 271 knots, it got to 1,500 feet when something started to happen. that altitude is significant

because there's faa regulations that say at that altitude, that's the altitude that people can survive. the plane is supposed to be able to correct to that altitude. that was significant. it would have been good, and we understand that there was a problem, the circuit breakers were pulled. it would be good to have the cockpit voice recorder to go with them. >> were you thinking that you would learn something additional other than in-person orrize interview? what would that cockpit recorder tell you or suggest that you couldn't have in an interview setting? >> sometimes there's additional sounds captured on the cockpit voice recorder that the flight crew doesn't recall.

sometimes it's just the warning signals on there. but in this case, in an accident scenario, they don't have everyone still alive and able to tell them what happened. they are fortunate here for that. you're listening for things that might not otherwise be captured in the investigation phase. this has been a sore point for some time with the united states national transportation safety board because european countries do require that to be 25 hours on newer plane models and in the united states it's two hours. >> i'm surprised every time i hear this data. one would think if a door or part of a plane blows off, for whatever reason, one would override however many windows you want to have that data and recording preserved.

it's apparently not there. the chair said the flight attendants and crew did not know what to expect. they will be informing crews going forward. how long could it take them to get up to speed? >> they know what to do. a rapid depressurization we've rehearsed in the simulator. get into the cockpit right now. when you have rapid depressurization, the f physiological effects are great. these are memory items, as well. we're reaching down for the mask. a mask that squeezes over the face. it's something we practice. getting the plane to stop climbing.

you're getting the airport down to where the human beings can survive without the oxygen. i can't say enough about the pilots' quick action and the violence that occurred when the rapid depressurization occurred. it ripped shirts off some passengers. these pilots focused on getting the airport descending down to the 10,000 foot mark at a minimum. when the passengers came off the oxygen, they could survive. this was a great story about trained professionals. flight attendants not knowing what's going on. they're sitting in back, i understand that. this happens in seconds. and the people who needed to react in seconds did. and the pilots did. getting locked up in the minutia of the recording, nothing was done with the intent of hiding anything.

these are heroes today. how did this happen? you're right. thinking about it. we heard from the ntsb chair. they're looking for a bottom hinge fitting. a spring that is not key to the investigation. you want to have all of the pieces. thank good no one was killed on the aircraft. this could have been bad. after you listened to what you heard, what is your confidence level in what caused this to happen? and can it be addressed? people are ready to fly all over this country every hour of the day. they're now worried whether they are on that type of aircraft or otherwise. >> yeah. it's understandable, the worry. this one will be solved by looking at metal. we can talk about the cockpit

voice recorder and the lights. ultimately, they look at the bolts and the spring hinge is. and they will look for witness marks,age evidence, to see if a bolt or a nut sheered off. or if there's missing pieces or evidence that a wire wasn't put through the bolt itself to ensure it doesn't loosen. if the bolts are not in, it's spring loaded like a mouse trap to be expelled from the aircraft if it gets jostled around. the pieces are probably there. or maybe not there. what might be missing is arndt. as we heard from today, united has found some loose bolts in similar aircraft. it appears, when the fauselages

were assembleassembled, maybe t tightened. i think we'll know, though. i don't think people should feel unsafe about this aircraft. there's no design flaw, they missed a step. that's crucial. >> the devil is in the details. finding a needle in a haystack. if the bolts have been handled appropriately. thank you for unpacking all of this. president biden was visiting the site of the 2015 racist massacre in south carolina, to warn about political violence. he crdrew a compaparison bebetw

totoday and ththe time of f the war.

couldn't accept the verdict of the war. they had lost. so, they say, they embrace what is known as the lost cause. is self-serving lie that the civil war is not about the slavery. some in this country are trying to turn a loss into a lie. a lie, if allowed to live, would br bring terrible damage to this country. the lie is about the 2020 election. >> drawing a line from slavery, the civil war, jim crow to the divisions of today. rallying the black supporters

from the pulpit of the oldest episcopal church. the site of a racist mass shooting in 2015. let's talk with michael eric dyson. he is the co-author of "unequal: the story of america." and allen sjengjenkins. glad to have you both here today. relevant to pick your minds this evening. michael, i begin with you. president biden returning to the state that catapulted him to the top of the democratic primary in 2020. nikki haley is calling it offensive he gave a speech, a political one, at this location. you call this vengeance biden. what do you say? >> yeah. i think what joe biden understands is it is necessary to link the past and the present.

to auk about historical narratives. the attempt to engage in the manipulation of facts for the purpose of white supremacy then, and what's going on now. it's interesting that the former governor of south carolina,nick nikki haley, did an honor of removing the confederate flag, saying she would have done something differently, has been wishy-washy and flipping from one side to the order, in record to her strong and declarative resistance to white supremacy. she had to say understand the

history and talk about it in ways that common human beings understand. >> to that point, he was not only talking about this from a 10,000 foot perspective, he gave a litany of what he has gotten done for the black community. he talked about low black unemployment. the first african-american on the supreme court. talking about ways to provide student loan relief. he went from january 6th to talk about this. frankly, a lot has happened between. do you see this approach to deliver the results he wants? i think it's a start. you can't bring a powerpoint to a culture war. that's what we're in. the strongest parts of the speech is when the president talked in terms of values of democracy and the truth. and equal dignity.

he acknowledged that we never fully achieved that value as a nation is. those were strong words. i was gratified he evoked white supremacy as a threat to demo democracy. i wish he had unpacked that a little for those that are less familiar with the notion. i think the laundry list of accomplishments. they're important. they have to be said. and polling shows a lot of voters aren't familiar with what the president has accomplished. ultimately, that's not what's going to win the day. it is going to be the story and the narrative, and the vision he has for america based on those values. >> i wonder if that will translate. it seems forward-thinking, those people are grappling with who is america? where is america? where will america be?

it's curious all of the candidates up and down the ballot, how they approach this question. the president's speech didn't go off without a hitch. he was just starting when this happened. listen. [ chanting ] >> that's all right. that's all right. [ chanting ] >> you've heard the "four more years" and the cease-fire chants. i was honed in on this moment. you may not have heard what proceeded those cease-fire chants. listen to this. >> if you care about the lives of volunteers, you should go for a cease-fire in palestine. >> they're going right to this notion, of the idea if you care about your faith and care about

the principle you're talking about, this is a challenge that president biden has to face, even in terms of his democratic base, of what is happening overseas and what happens here at home. how do you resolve that tension if you're biden? >> as my colleague said, you may not be able to bring the point -- >> a powerpoint to a culture war. i love that line. the reality is, joe biden has to play a different song. he has to narrate his story and his truth, by saying -- permit people to say what they got to say. don't shut them down. it is difficult when people are drawing parallels that have been long established between the african-american struggle here in this nation and oppression of peoples around the world. in this case, palestinian

people. >> do you risk the confuslation? >> when you articulate values, you will be accountable for those values. that's where the rubber hits the road. i think it's also the case, with young, black voters, they are looking for transformative change. important that biden have tried to do loan forgiveness. but what's his vision for everyone to afford to go to college in the future? it's important that he's reduced the prices of prescription drugs. but what about human rights?

voters are not necessarily expecting the president to deliver on every aspect of his values. but he has to articulate a vision for those values to move forward. that's one of the things missing from this speech. maybe he will get there. >> everything has to be more than lip service to get a voter off the couch. thank you, both of you. >> thank you. there's some breaking news. a big night for michigan in the college football national championship. we'll brbreak it dowown for you next.

get over here kids. time for today's lesson. wow. -whoa. what are those?

these are humans. they rely on something called the internet to survive. huh, powers out. [ gasp ] are they gonna to die? worse, they are gonna get bored. [ gasp ] wait look! they figured out a way to keep the internet on. yeah! -nature finds a way. [ grunt ] stay connected when the power goes out, with storm ready wifi from xfinity. and see migration in theaters now. well, looking someone had to lose the undefeated record. tonight, the michigan wolverines are the new college football champs, beating the washington huskies, 34-13, in an intense game. it's the wolverines' first national championship win since 1997. let's talk to kari champion. i'm glad you're here. it's a huge win. >> a huge win for michigan. their season has not been easy.

they were battle tested. they were accused of cheating, stealing signs from other opponents. the head coach, harbaugh, was suspended for three games. they went undefeated and at the end of the day, they take home the biggest prize. michigan for some reason, has the yankees feel to them. the los angeles lakers feel to them. and teams just love to hate them. and they did it all. >> they did it all and did it well. tonight, thinking of another league. the nba. draymond green coming back after 12 games? >> he has a podcast. his future will doing what we are doing. he will be sitting across from you. on his podcast, he thought about retiring and the commissioner of the league, adam silver had to tell him, you're making a rash decision. do not retire.

i know draymond very well. a lot of the issues he was dealing was were self-inflicted. too much is given, much is required. you don't get to behave in any way, without people saying you are no longer allowed to behave that day. he was a bit of a bully. i disagree. i think we all need a time-out. >> this is our time-out. the show is over. >> no. >> it's a good time-out i have to tell you. thank you. we'll be right back. a a little bitit more of thehe . >> thanknk you, laurura. >> thahank you.

(vo) with fargo, the new virtual assistant from wells fargo, you can instantly know what you spend on things like food. (dad) fargo, what did i spend on groceries this month? (son) hey dad, can the guys stay for dinner? (dad) no. (vo) want faster, easier banking? you can, with wells fargo.

(vo) with fargo, the new virtual assistant from wells fargo, you can instantly know what you spend on things like food. (dad) fargo, what did i spend on groceries this month? (son) hey dad, can the guys stay for dinner? (dad) no. (vo) want faster, easier banking? you can, with wells fargo. we showed you earlier this hour, the door plug that was ripped out of that alaska airlines flight and found in someone's backyard. it wasn't just the door plug that was strewn across portland. someone got an iphone that appears to have fallen out of the plane. >> i found a phone on the side of the road, that had apparently

fallen 16,000 feet. it was still pretty clean, no scratches on it, sitting under a push. and it didn't have a screen lock on it. i hope it up. it was in airplane mode with a travel confirmation and baggage claim for alaska 1282. >> is that the most wild thing you have heard? are you kidding me? i drop my phone from the desk and it shatters. an ntsb spokesperson tells cnn they turned the phone over to alaska airlines. thank you for watching. our coverage continues.