in florida, we saw the covid stuff being used to deprive people of the rights and we took a stand against that. we said, pass protections, you can't have to choose between a shot you don't want and a job you need, and we will not have covid-19 vaccine passports where you are discriminated against based on your status of whether you decide to take the shot or not. well, we hosted the special olympics when air and lo and behold, the international bureaucracy that oversees that imposed a covid vaccine mandate on the athletes. well, one, that violated florida law, but to, i had families frantically coming to our office, saying that their kids will not be able to participate in this. and that was wrong, so we said, we will enforce the law against if you discriminate against these athletes and we ended up getting all the athletes that wanted to should be able to compete. and that had a huge impact on peoples lives. this summer, i am walking around the iowa state fair, and i get a big hug from a family

because we made sure their son, who had unique abilities, was able to compete in the special olympics. that is how you use your position of authority to ensure that people are able to realize their dreams. they wanted to exclude those people based on these ridiculous mandates. i stood up and said, no, not on my watch, everybody gets to compete. [applause] >> do you want to say thank you to governor desantis, and thank you to you here in our office here at new england college. please make sure to join us next tuesday, january 23rd, at four pm eastern for cnn's special live coverage of the new hampshire primary. state right here, abby philip and laura coates have and analysis of this town hall. that starts right now.

ron desantis, turning up the heat against his two main rivals in cnn's new hampshire town hall tonight. i'm abby philip in new york. >> and i am laura coates in washington d. c.. and the race is on. just seven days to go until the new hampshire primary, with 22 republican delegates now at stake. and the gop hopefuls are going to each and every one of them, adding. all around the campaign trail in the state, including ron desantis. >> lerytng we just heard over the last hour with our political analysts who are here in new york with me at the table. i'll start with you, scott jennings, how did he do tonight? did you hear anything or see anything from ron desantis that would help him change the momentum going into new hampshire? >> well, i'm going to analyze his performance independent of the political realities that we live in post iowa and that he

faces in new hampshire. i think he has found his groove over the last couple of months. he has steadily improved, he has knocked all of these town hall meetings, in the last debate we did, out of the park. every single question he gets about these issues, the answers are exactly what any conservative republicans would want to hear. i mean, he is what republicans have always said they want in a conservative president, that knows how to use government to get results. at one point he got asked, what would you do? and he gives off this long litany of things. the question is, is that what republicans want, or do they want the election to be about f joe biden, f the media, and let's get retribution for all the wrongs that occurred. and can you channel that energy. >> i think b >> [laughter] given the election last night. >> and it's a vibe primary, and that's the vibe, and who's got and who doesn't, it's trump. >> yeah i mean it sort of like, no participation trophies here in this one for ron desantis. improvement, as scott has been

chronicling, but at the same time, he is still 30 points behind the actual frontrunner. >> yes, i mean right now, he may be playing for two things. one is respectability and his future. you know, he's only 45 years old, and he is closing this race strong. the fact is, he was an abysmal candidate for months and months and months. his strategy was off, his performance was uneven, at best. and for the last several months he has been much stronger. i was really surprised by the entrance poll yesterday, that said, of the people who decided in the last month, he and haley were basically even. and there was this sense that haley had this great momentum. well, it turns out that the desantis made a lot of progress in. the >> he was able to blend it pretty effectively. >> you saw last night why. 99 counties, that's good experience, and he found his -- . and whether he succeeds here or

not. now the other thing abby, and i will then move on, is there is this theory that people want to hang around just in case something happens to trump. i. e., a conviction. and, it may be that desantis is searching searching for a way to hang around and be that person. >> you know, so that one question you asked is, what do we hear? to me the interesting question is, what did we not hear? we did not hear him wage war against disney. we did not hear him wage war against drag queens. we did not hear him wage war against ap black history, or banning books. and so you know, i think he tried this zealous persona of being the conservative warrior. he took what glenn youngkin did in virginia, and increased upteenth. and it didn't work. he was mean spirited, he sounded waco. frankly, he didn't sound very conservative, going after the largest employer in your state is not very conservative. and by the time he corrected course, it was way too late. >> and he's also attacking trump much more aggressively.

>> well that's what i was going to say, as far as what you didn't hear. in addition to that, he is going after trump. but i was curious to see if coming off of iowa and this landslide victory of donald trump's, if he would be ratcheting up the attacks against him. and i think this showed very clearly, as we suspect, he's going to stick to the script, which is essentially he is drama, he is chaos, i am going to actually fulfill my promises. but nothing really beyond that. and this is, even today, he could have said today, donald trump was in a new york courtroom while i was on the campaign trail. and so, i think i am very convinced, it is a plan to be waiting in the wings if something happens to trump. >> and look at that, but if you look at those dates though, that court date i believe is march 4th, super tuesday is march 5th. >> at the earliest. >> right, so that game of trying to be that person, the last person standing, it's a long way between here and there. and if you are ron desantis, can you make it that long? are you going to have enough money? because that is what keeps these campaigns going's money. a performance like tonight, i would suggest, will fill his

coffers a little bit. he can go to people and say i had a strong performance, i kick butt in iowa, and here i am. >> i don't think he is running, i don't think he is running an ad in new hampshire. >> and you know to anna's point, ron desantis went over so many demographics that people have family members who are trans, people have family members who are lgbt. they are black republicans, and you don't want to teach part of their history in schools. but tonight, he did take a different tone, in two different ways. he mentioned having a big tent party, leaning towards the general election. he also talked about his strategy on how he could maybe get to super tuesday. he said look, i did go to south carolina, i am not skipping over. people sleep in, we've had a tough caucus, that kind of thing. but i got on, i started working, i am not quitting, i am playing in nevada, south carolina, and new hampshire. which could tell a voter, i have a plan. and then he says while nikki haley, she is not even in the caucus, she is not in nevada.

so is she really trying to be the nominee? or is she playing for vice president? and i thought it was an interesting way to go at both trump and nikki haley, while also telling voters i am leaning towards -- >> in addition to what he said to all of those issues, it's also his interaction, right. he has begun to resemble a human. i mean, it's taken him nine months of doing this, to learn how to smile, to learn how to call somebody asking the question by their name, to start telling cute anecdotes about his childhood playing baseball, and things like that. i mean, my gosh, the man has some, he has something. >> we did comment after the debate in iowa, excuse me after the debate that you had in iowa that anderson sat down with ron desantis in this interview. we were around this table and said, wow, who was that guy? where has that guy been? >> in multiple respects, both that he did the interview. a year ago, he probably would not have done that. but also, his demeanor has totally changed.

i mean scott, what do you think went on in the desantis campaign to get him to-- this is not an easy thing, because what you are doing is. >> i mean we are trying to ask a candidate to be genuine, which seems easy, but it is actually really hard. >> he's not a breezy guy. if you are looking for breezes or entertainment, that is not his thing. he did all timidly find a looser demeanor then we had become used to. i think there's actually some liberation in not being the leader. you know when you are the front runner, or when you are experiencing an upswing, you know in sports they would say you get a little -- squeeze the bat a little tighter. and i think that's actually what happened to haley. you know member at the beginning of this, she was the one who was the most polished politician on the stage. the better she started doing, she got a little tighter, she started having gas.

desantis dips a little, the pressure comes off a little bit, it's a little liberating. he comes off of the shoulders, and all the sudden, he is a likable guy. >> this is such an important point. i can tell you from my own experience, barack obama, people think of him now as a very polished performer, and so on. he himself would tell you he was a pretty bad candidate for the first few months of the campaign, in part because the expectations of him were so large that it's like, you can't take the play to new haven or wherever, you open on broadway, all of the critics are in the front row, the bright lights are on you, and you are expected to perform at peak level, and you are not ready for it. and that is sort of what happened to desantis. he had such ballyhoo going into this campaign, and people expected a lot from him. >> but he blink edunder the bright lights, and then he went underground when people started just -- worked on his material, came back, and was a much better. -- but >> wasn't that set up by himself, in terms of i ran this incredible campaign in the

state of florida? i put together a coalition. you know, the problem is when you are in tallahassee, the press corps is different than the press corps in a presidential campaign, that is the big difference. >> i think that -- i will just say, it wasn't just ron desantis who put some wind in his sail. a lot of republicans after the 2022 midterm elections, when you guys lost almost everything, and he was the only republican that won, it was kind of like he is our rising star, let's hitch our horse to this guy, and he just. >> and keep in mind, his political experience before was running against two pretty unpopular candidates in florida. this isn't somebody got a very tough experience. that's why you see him growing in realtime. >> remember, running for president is a really hard thing to do. and no previous experience prepares you for it, the level of intensity and scrutiny is so much greater. >> maybe the apprentice, i don't know?

>> well look in florida, i got a lot of pushback when i said this election night, the night he beat charlie crist. charlie crist was a corpse, and that was an insult to corpses. and, he also, ron desantis, did a lot of things to give him an advantage, to give him a playing advantage. he changed voting laws, he paraded felons, he paraded african american felons around the streets. he created an election police. he did things that suppress the vote in florida, gave him an advantage, and was running against probably the worst candidate i remember in florida in my lifetime. and i've lived through rick scott. >> i want to talk about one of the other things he was asked about today. listen to how ron desantis responded to what nikki haley said to the question, is america a racist country? listen. >> well, the u.s. is not a racist country. and we've overcome things in our history. you know, i think the founding fathers, they established a set of principles that are universal.

now they may not have been universally applied at the time, but i think they understood what they were doing. they understood that those principles would be the engine for progress for generations to come. and that is what has happened. >> he actually gave a much longer answer to that, and went on. i actually thought it was really good on this. and he has been good on it since haley has been tripping up on it. i think with haley right now, this topic has now gotten in her head, and she is not handling any iteration of it very well. i mean, it's not difficult to say yes, when we had the slavery, that was fundamentally racist. then we got rid of it, thanks to a republican president named abraham lincoln. and we have been improving as a nation ever since, thanks to republican party principles. these are not hard things to say. but, it strikes me, this has gotten in her head, and i'm sure she is getting a lot of coaching on it. but i think every time desantis has handled it, it's been good. >> and the reason it's gotten in her head i think, and the

reason it strikes particularly hard coming from haley, is because to state the obvious, she is a woman of color. so to hear a woman of color, who has lived in south carolina, who was the governor who took down the confederate flag because she knows it's a racist symbol, after nine people were killed at mother emmanuel. to then say oh no, there is never been racism in this country. that's incredibly offensive, tone-deaf, stupid, and repetitive. she keeps tripping up on this subject, it's awkward, and i think she does it because she is having a hard time talking about her own identity. >> to be fair, even vice president harris said america is not a racist country, did she not? >> well, i think there is past tense and present tense. >> exactly. >> in our language. >> and desantis was clear about that. >> but i don't think desantis's answer tonight is sufficient, it's insufficient for me. i would have wanted him to go

further, but he is not because he is ron desantis. and he is not trying to get my vote. but i think that nikki haley, to ana's point, i don't think she is clear on her ideology, and who she is as a person of color in this country. and she talks about well, i have experienced racism. when you go through those experiences, like most people of color had, you have to, and you still love this country, you want to be able to tell the truth, and nikki haley does not want to tell the truth right now, because she is playing politics over talking to people. when barack obama became the first black president, one of the most powerful speeches he ever gave was on race. and some would argue that the reason why he was elected was because he had the courage to speak to the country's original sin of slavery, and the consistent institutional racism and white supremacy that still lives on. and we do fight every single day to be as good as our ideals, but we cannot forget the history that our country is founded on, just to win an election.

>> nikki haley is facing racism right now. >> i know. >> donald trump is using the same birtherism message that he did with barack obama on her. and she should be denouncing that as racist. >> and also experiencing it, vivek ramaswamy also experienced it, with voters in iowa. and it's not like it's gone away. >> and not for nothing, not that the reason you should answer correctly is the strategy of it. but she is not going to get voters who are racist. they know that she is an indian american, they are not going to be with her. i would hope purely on the moral judgment, she would be catering to those votes. but it is incomprehensible why this is the third time she has had a chance to answer this, and failed. >> everybody standby for us. go to you laura in washington. >> are you kidding me, where champing at the bit over. there were all like wait, we're gonna weigh, and we're gonna weigh in. >> we've got so much to talk got cnn political analyst lauren beroun lopez, and laura coates on the candle can't be wrong. senior political analyst gloria borger is here as well.

and, i always have a very hard time with the idea that there is a level of arrogance about wanting to be the leader of the so-called free world. if you have that level of arrogance and that level of like, wherewithal to say i want to be that person, and you can't answer a question about whether there is racism in america, about slavery in the civil war. i mean, how does this keep happening? how do they keep stepping on this rake? >> well i think, i think with nikki haley, what she is doing is she is self-editing. she doesn't want to make a mistake, she feels like she has done pretty well. and every time she self edits, she screws up. and, she is not quite sure what to say. i remember this used to happen with mitt romney all the time. sometimes you are asked an easy question, and the answer should be slavery, and something is going through your brain like, who am i going to offend if i say that? and so, you edit yourself, even though you believe you should

be the leader of the free world, you want to get there, and you want to get those voters. >> go ahead. >> this is the second time she's been asked about this, probably the third time at this point. it's been multiple times, and her answer was not good. but i think that it is not just that she self at its. i mean, desantis also self edits, although his answer tonight was also a lot more natural than nikki haley's, and he seen a lot more comfortable talking about this question. but i think they are also giving these specific answers strategically. because if you actually look at the data about the republican base, you know, desantis said tonight that republicans believe in color blindness, he used the term color blindness. well actually, the data suggests otherwise, because data from the public religion research institute found that 65% of republicans say that's discrimination against white americans is just as big a problem as discrimination against black americans. an 81% of republicans disagreed with the statement that generations of slavery and discrimination made it more

difficult for black americans to rise up from the lower class. so those are just the facts of the sentiments of the republican voters, and the republican base. and i am pretty positive that ron desantis and nikki haley are aware of that. >> well here is the problem, but at some point, these candidates are going to have to run in a general, if nikki haley wants to be the leader of the free world. and i find it very hard to believe that there are minorities out there who maybe independents, and they may lean somewhat to the right because of economic issues, small businesses, et cetera, are willing to a vote for a candidate who is afraid to acknowledge and recognize the history of the country. it is okay, nikki haley, it is okay ron desantis, to say look, slavery was a big deal in the country, we have made a significant amount of progress, we have made some issues. and if i am elected, we are going to continue to improve things. how difficult is? it shouldn't be hard, particularly for someone of color, as a black republican, to be able to acknowledge and

have a very real conversation with a party that struggled, laura, for a very long time on this particular issue. to say look, we have some problems here guys. we are not perceived very well by people of color. >> well i explain it even beyond the race. cause i already see people saying well, they are beating a dead horse. peta, don't kill me, it's just a turn of phrase when i say that. but the idea here, when we talk about why this is problematic to me, as a member of the electorate, and people more broadly, is that if you fail to acknowledge an obvious point, i will then think that is transferable in other areas. the democrats are getting hit over that multiple times a day, because they wouldn't use the word crisis when it came to the border. even though the idea of what you are seeing in the floodgates opening up. but there's discussions about any number of topics. if you are not able to recognize a problem, and you are running on the opportunity to change something, doesn't that really undercut everything else you say? >> well, the solution of course that desantis turned to immediately was dei. and he said you know, that's why i am for getting rid of all

of these phony labels. and that's why, while he didn't use the word woke, thank goodness. but he turned it around a little bit, and said the republican party stands for color blindness, and that's why i'm against dei. and that's why i've gotten rid of it in the state of florida. so he is turning it into something republicans can support. >> yeah, and i understand that, again, in a primary, you want to be careful. i've worked on enough campaigns to get that. but you have to run in the general election. and if you are nikki haley, ron desantis, or donald trump, it is very clear that there is of substantial amount of people in this country who are completely turned off by that type of rhetoric. if i'm going to campaign as a black republican, then i have to go out and speak to other african americans in other communities of color in general, to try to advocate and advance for a republican message, the republican candidate. and they are asking me, all of these ideas sound great, but

you have a candidate who can't acknowledge the history of the country. how in the world am i supposed to articulate that message to our community, laura? it's impossible. you are laughed out of the barbershop, to use a phrase as an example. and so i think candidates have to get around this issue of race, and be honest about the past, and talk about the present to make the future better. >> again, i look at this as more, we're going to talk more about this. i look at this as a broader issue than just the issues of race, which are quite broad and of themselves. but if you are asking to run and lead a nation, there are going to be a number of nuanced issues you're going to have to require you to confront, in a difficult truth, a hard truth, and be able to do something about that. that is what the people are asking in this whole campaign, no matter who you are. everyone stick around. ahead, a nikki haley circuit -- surrogate will join me live, and the two comments taking heat tonight. we will ask his thoughts. plus, a former trump cabinet member, ben carson, is standing by, on trump's strategy going

into new hampshire. i'm going to ask him if he is being asked about being a vp pick. so, get ready mr. carson, doctor carson, for cnn's special live coverage.

today, donald trump wants republican voters to believe that he landed a first-round

knockout of his iowa route. the president parachuted into new hampshire, and he says that iowa is now evidence that nikki haley and ron desantis are essentially zombie candidates. >> nikki haley in particular. is counting on the democrats and liberals to infiltrate the republican primary, you know that, that's what's happening. we have these two people, we really got to get back onto biden, and beating the democrats, and not wasting a lot of time with these two. >> joining us tonight is ben carson, the former secretary of housing and urban development under donald trump. secretary carson, thanks for joining us. so donald trump has not agreed to a single debate in this cycle. if he is such a dominant candidate in this race, what is he so afraid of? >> well there's no advantage for him to do a debate, because he's so far ahead. and probably, using the same philosophy that joe biden is

using. >> but nikki haley is now set to have a strong performance in new hampshire, after she finished third, a close third in iowa. how is that not a race, a real threat to trump's quest for the nomination, it's so early in this process. >> well, if you want to look at something that's interesting, look historically at iowa. no one has ever had more than 50% of the vote. in fact, the largest margin before has been 12%. so this is an incredibly statement by the people in iowa, and we find the same kind of sentiment all over the country. people are ready to move to a place where we can actually compare the thoughts and the philosophies of the progressive parties with the conservative parties. look at the history of how they have worked, and make good decisions.

>> but i'll ask you again. i mean, why would trump not just get on the debate stage, put his ideas up against the other candidates who are running against him, and have the voters decide based on that, rather than dodging these debates? you mentioned joe biden, joe biden participated in presidential nominating contests as well. >> i didn't see him in this cycle participating in any debates. if it's not advantageous to you, there's no particular reason to do it. >> so, should nikki haley then, if trump is in your eyes inevitably going to be the nominee, do you think that she should be considered on the short list for vice president? >> well i think the president has the right to consider anyone who he thinks will be beneficial to the cause. >> what about yourself? when you consider being trump's vp? >> no. right now, with my

concentration is about getting into place the kind of leader who can quell some of that chaos that's going on in many aspects of our country. infantile such times as that, as far as i'm concerned, it's a distraction. >> was that a no? you don't want to be vice president ever? or a no, you are not considering it right now? >> that's a no, let's move on to get the person in place. and when that person is in place, then we can talk about that. >> so nikki haley today said that the united states has never been a racist country. >> do you agree with that? >> there certainly has been a lot of racism in the united states, there's no question about that. and we have made enormous progress. but you must recognize that while there were people engaged in racist activities, there has also been a large number of people who were just the

opposite, during the time of slavery, there were large numbers of abolitionists. there were people of good faith, and kind individuals. so, would you take those individuals and say the united states is a kind country because they existed? you could just acknowledge the fact that there were many different types of people, including some very racist people, who had a very racist policy. >> would you say that what she said, which is that america has never been a racist country? >> i would say that there has never been a time when there haven't been evil people, and racist people in the country, including currently. >> since trump, as we've been discussing, has avoided all debates so far. and frankly, a lot of serious policy questions like ron desantis, for example, answering tonight in his town hall. i wonder if you could answer

yes or no to just a few questions here. the question here is, would you support trump doing the following things in his administration, if he is elected. so i will start with this, a self pardon for january 6th crimes. would you support trump doing that? >> i think that might be very reasonable. >> and what about internment camps for migrants? >> i think we need to get to a place where we don't have policies that invite the migrants in, and then we don't have to deal with the concept of internment camps, which obviously is not very palatable. >> but trump has said that he would do that, would you support his decision to make camps for migrants? >> well they have to have some place to stay. but again, the key thing is to have policies in place that don't bring millions of people into our country, jeopardize not only our economy, but our

safety, because there might be terrorists among them. >> and what about pulling out of nato, would you support that? >> well, let's put it this way. i think the formation of nato was a very good idea. and i think it has helped to stem the tide on warfare, particularly in europe. i think the policies that were put in place, including 2% of your gdp for defense, should be enforced. and if they are not enforced, and if we are expected to carry the entire load ourselves, then we need to look at all possibilities. >> and last one, doctor carson, should trump, or would you support trump prosecuting president biden? >> i think in his speech yesterday, or the day before,

that he took a more conciliatory tone, and recognizes that the problems that face us right now are enormous. and we could spend a lot of time going after people, or we could address those problems. i think we've already seen that president trump is not a highly vindictive individual, in that he didn't go after hillary after he was president in 2016. >> you are saying that president trump is not a highly vindictive person? he has literally pledged to prosecute his, to joe biden, he said he would do that. he said he would go after people who wronged him. >> i always have a tendency to look and see what people do, not so much what they say, particularly in the heat of political environments. >> trump, doctor carson, talks about getting revenge almost every day on social media. i mean really, just days ago. should voters not take that seriously?

should voters have to wait until he is actually president to find out if that is going to happen? >> most recently, you have heard him say that the things that face us right now are so pressing, that he is not going to have time to be vindictive. >> he has said he is not going to have time to be a dictator, which is an interesting thing to say. doctor ben carson, thank you. >> to be vindictive. >> to be vindictive, as well. doctor ben carson, thank you very much. and up next, we will speak with a nikki haley surrogate, congressman ralph norman, about the next steps in her campaign, as well as the comments that she has made, that has made some headldlines.

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are you involved in a racist party? >> no, we're not a racist country, brian. we've never been a racist country. our goal is to make sure that today is better than yesterday. are we perfect, no. but our goal is to always make sure that we try to be more perfect at every day that we can. >> nikki haley, raising some eyebrows, after claiming the u.s. has never been a racist country. her campaign letter affirming her statement later on. also saying in part, quote, america has always had racism, but america has never been a racist country, unquote. joining us now, congressman ralph northam of south carolina. he has endorsed nikki haley for president. congressman, thank you so much for being here this evening. of course, this particular statement that has been made is catching a lot of attention. there has been a number of comments made about race and history for the former governor of south carolina. here it comes again. do you believe that the u.s. has never been a racist country?

>> first of all, i'm ralph norman. northam, i think he is in virginia. >> oh, you know what, might addiction may have been off. my father's name is norm, and i'm sure i said it right. maybe it didn't translate there, but i certainly know your name. go ahead and answer my question, thank you so much. >> well, now laura, nikki is exactly right. -- look, in the declaration of independence, the preamble, which set we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. that among these life, liberty, in the pursuit of happiness. the civil war was fought 74 years after the constitution was ratified. in 1787. so there was a faction of southerners, southern states that had slaves. but the country as a whole has never been racism, or never had

certain parts of it but the civil war was fought because the southerners had slaves, and abraham lincoln, as a country, wanted to hold together based on the declaration of independence. so she is exactly right on that. >> well, historians and likely all of them would disagree with the assertion that you made about this being a singular reason for lincoln's motivation of the civil war. if you look at it for the economic reasons, others look at it obviously for the fact that the economic labor force was in fact a people in servitude. but let me ask you a broader question here. because this question continues to come up, and i think it's because the conversation has not yet led to a definitive statement that acknowledges, on the one hand, the historical truth, and on the other hand, a way to address it in contemporary times. when you look at the reason people are asking the question, it's not for a gotcha, congressman. it's because i think that they are trying to understand what policies would be at play to address some of the historical wrongs.

what policies ought there to be? >> look, laura, you know that you in the media want to, you all beat this horse over so many times, to focus on something that happened, like i said, the civil war was fought 74 years after the constitution. that group were racist, that particular group. but you can't cast a country as that. so i would take issue with the fact that historically, i am wrong, i think i'm right. and plus, nikki haley, as she has often said, growing up she wasn't black, she wasn't white. and if anybody could say if there was racism, she could say that she was a victim of it, but it wasn't. we are a great country, with great people that love freedom. and the press can try to parse her words all day long, she is going to take this stance, as well as most americans, who are worried about the economy, they are worried about a border that's out of control, crime,

and so many other things, that she is addressing. not to beat up something that happened 160 years ago. it's not right, and it's not productive. >> well certainly, just as a point of reference, that question that she was answering came from a fox news host, and they were talking about the broader media. but naturally, many of the things that have happened in contemporary times are a reflection of historical practices. whether it be aspects of labor, or the economy, or housing, or immigration, or any number of different factors. so, i think it's right to probe the historical context of these things. but let me ask you again, my question was in terms of why you are supporting nikki haley, and the policies she is putting forward. do you have concerns about her inability to address something that needs to be discussed openly, and discussed with, i think the word you used nature. are you concerned about your --

her ability to resolve the concerns of those who keep asking the questions. >> you know, if you keep asking, we can keep focusing on it. it's kind of like the abortion issue that the liberals have always used as a divisive issue. and when the dobbs decision was around, you saw all the ads that said abortion was done away with. no it wasn't, it was just taken to the states. and let the states decide. look, here is why i support nikki haley. number one, she is the only candidate that beats joe biden, who has shipwrecked, train wrecked this economy in double digits. secondly, you look at what she is focusing on, fixing the problems that this country has. look, i'm in congress, i hear it every day, people are worried about their paychecks, they are worried about inflation, they worried about crime, they are worried about out of control criminals that are coming into this country, they are worried about what's happening in israel. and so, that's why i support nikki haley, she is looking forward. she is not looking backwards,

and everyone knows she is a hard working american who loves this country. and that's what her focus is going to be. >> it's important to point out, every aspect you just raised. the american polling all suggests that every issue you have identified are top of mind. i do wonder, you obviously support her. iowa, she did not do as strongly as i'm sure her campaign hoped she would do. she came in third, she would later talk about this definitively of it now being a two person race. but governor desantis came in second, not her. there is some momentum in new hampshire, and of course we will go to your state after that. do you have concerns about how she performed in iowa, as an indication of how she might do more broadly against say trump, or even biden, if it comes to it? >> laura, in iowa she did great. two points, two points separated first and second. we had cold weather. i was out there, i was on the

ground. >> but -- 30 separated first place from second and third. you have to admit that. >> that's right, that's exactly right. but the fact is, she did very well, desantis did pretty well, and put everything into iowa, spent $34 million. and nikki haley has conservative money, she is going to new hampshire, she is going to south carolina. you know, desantis i think has ran through his money. and one thing nikki has not done is waste her money. there is one candidate. and you have to admit this, that has been on the steady rise, and that's been nikki haley. to people like what they see, she connects with people, and she is addressing each and every problem that this country is facing now. and they are serious, people are scared. and so, nikki haley represents our best chance of curing the problems, and she can beat joe

biden as she shows in the polls. now donald trump, he is leading, he did win. she congratulated him, but this is a marathon, it is not a sprint. this is the first, you know, the first real test. and i think she did real well, and we will move on to new hampshire, and i think she will do very well. south carolina, the same way. >> well, we will see. now i am going to take this next part very carefully so you don't think i got it wrong. congressman ralph norman, thank you so much for joining me this evening, i appreciate it. [laughter] >> my pleasure, thank you. >> thank you. ahead, a fact check on the desantis town hall.

now you watch what the governor had to say at his town hall with wolf blitzer tonight. tom foreman is live with a fact check for us, on what governors had to say this evening.

tom, what did you make of it? >> one of the standard parts of his stump speeches to say that when the pandemic came along, florida charted a course unlike anybody else. and he said that again tonight. >> we in florida dragged this country out of lockdown. we made sure schools were open, we made sure businesses were open. >> like many other states, florida tried to chart its course early on in this process, and it came under some criticism for being too lax. but the truth is, under desantis, they imposed significant restrictions across the state to stop the spread of covid. on individual businesses, schools, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, nursing homes, and public beaches. yes, eventually they opened everything up again. but to suggest they never did, that is simply not true. they had restrictions like many other states, they followed the health officials like many other states. >> a few days ago, something else happened. in new york, that seems to be a

gift to many people on the conservative right. what they saw was, what they thought was a case of liberals catering to undocumented immigrants. >> new york city had to close a school. you literally have kids told, don't go to school, because they commandeered the school to be able to house illegal aliens. talk about putting the american people last. >> well, that sounds like a pretty explosive claim. but here's what happened. last week, as a big storm approached, they had a camp of undocumented immigrants, a couple of thousand of them, living in tents. they were worried about the impact of the storm, so they moved them into a school, and they had the students study from home for one day. yes, this made a lot of parents angry, people complained about it. but the next day, the immigrants were back in the tents, and the students were back in the classroom. for him to imply somehow that the school was taken over, and this was some sort of permanent

situation, is at the very least misleading. >> very interesting. tom foreman, as always, thank you so much for all of that. now up next, a big endorsement from ted cruz, who once called donald trump a, what was the quote? a sniveling coward. that's the quote.

well the tight, rhonda scientists tries to use the cnn town hall, to do what the bj say, staying alive.

that's another story. good evening, i'm laura coates in washington, easy. >> i'm every philip right here on cnn, rhonda centers just forcefully when after his two republican rivals, nikki haley and donald trump. the former florida governor says that he is only running a campaign that is not a basement campaign, he pretty clearly said without qualifications, that's a vote for donald trump in the republican primary is a vote for the democrats in the white house in november. >> if donald trump was the nominee, the election will revolve around all his issues, his trials, perhaps convictions if he goes to trial. if he loses their in things like january six. we're gonna lose if that's a decision that voters are making based on that. we do not want it to be a referendum on those issues. >> tonight, he's making his play to campaign yet another day. earlier, v