>> the supreme court today making it a reality and making history settling an issue that's been unclear since reconstruction. all nine justices deciding that neither colorado nor any other state can bar him under the 14th amendment, section three insurrection language quoting from the opinion, quote, we can clued that states may disqualify persons holding or

attempting to hold state office, but states have no power under the constitution to enforce section three with respect to federal offices, especially the presidency. the opinion was per curiam, meaning not attributed to any specific justice however, in a concurrence that you might say reads more like a dissent justices sonia sotomayor, elena kagan, and ketanji brown jackson take issue with the rulings broadness, which they suggest is to quote, insulate this court and petitioner from future controversy. the petitioner, of course, being donald trump, asked for him he praised the ruling, then pivoted to the courts. next big decision on presidential immunity >> when you make a decision, you don't want to have your opposing party or opponent, or even somebody that just thinks you're wrong, bring a criminal suit against you or any kind of assumed when you leave office, i have that right now at a level that nobody's ever we've seen before. i have rogue prosecutors and i have rogue judges have judges that are out of control. and it's a very

unfair thing for me. >> keeping them honest. there >> is, of course, no evidence of rogue prosecutors or judges, no matter how many times he says that there are colorado secretary of state, jenna griswold also weighing in a bit earlier here on cnn first and foremost, i'm glad that they issued a decision >> colorado >> voters and american voters all across the country deserve to know whether donald trump is qualified or not as we go into super tuesday but in terms of the bigger decision, i'm disappointed and i also think that the big concern is still there. donald trump incited the insurrection in cited that violent mob onto the capitol to try to stop the peaceful transfer of presidential power. and he has not stopped his attacks on democracy since then. >> joining us now, the michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, whose supreme court back in december, rejected an

attempt to keep donald trump off the ballot. madam secretary, grateful for your time, or you did file an amicus brief with the supreme court back in january, you took no position as to how the legal issue should be resolved, but you said for the good of democracy, the court should resolve them now and quote are you satisfied with today's opinion? you get clarity. did you get what you wanted >> yes, i am. and thanks for having me. i we her in michigan and election officials all across the country are fully prepared to do our jobs this year which is making sure every citizen can vote and that we're administering administrating full, free and fair elections. that continues. the clarity provided by the court is to affirm what i and the vast majority of my colleagues have also said since the beginning, which is that it's inappropriate for any one state to weigh in and make a decisive position. take a decisive position on such a thorny legal issue. it really is best left to the federal government and the support breen court has affirmed that given us that clarity, so that any state or state courts still wrestling with a question of how to apply

section three of the 14th amendment. now has that clarity to declare donald trump's eligibility as a candidate in this election. >> yet, you heard your colleague, your democratic colleague from colorado secretary of state, jenna griswold, telling wolf blitzer earlier tonight while she accepts the court's ruling, she still believes individual states should be able to disqualify a presidential candidate from the ballot if they've deemed that candidate participated in an insurrection, do you agree with her? i've been doing this a long time and one of the staples of almost 40 years of doing this is the secretary of state, the chief elections officials, whether you're a democratic republic looking from a midwestern state as you are the east coast for the west coast, most of them get along and focus on the mechanics of running a free and fair election. is there a disagreement among your colleagues whether they're democrats or republicans on this question? >> again, i think the vast majority of my colleagues have taken the same position i have, which is that it's inappropriate for a state official to weigh in on this issue and today, the supreme court affirmed that position and said, indeed, in cases like this where the legal and

factual issues are not straightforward, the constitution requires they be determined at the federal level, not at the state level. and then again, i think on all of this, we have to remember who has the ultimate authority, which is the voters in every state. that again was to me a firm today by giving voters the opportunity to weigh in on who they should hold politically accountable at the ballot box for the issues at stake in this year's election, who did it surprise you or did you view it as smart or the justices party what did they did not directly address the question of whether donald trump actually engaged in insurrection on, in and around january 6. >> i was surprised. i was at the oral arguments as well and expected as i think many of us did for a lot of the discussion to be focused on the definition of insurrection, the facts in this case. but notably, the court said, look, there for lots of different issues at play, both legal and factual. and the question is really, who is the appropriate authority? what is the appropriate forum? and when is the appropriate time to make these determinations as a legal scholar and a former law dean,

i know you have to determine those who and what and when law at the same time or perhaps before but you get to the substance of the case. and so i wasn't surprised at all by even the unanimity or the per curiam aspect of the decision today. and i was grateful because it showed by issuing it today before super tuesday, the court is aware of the importance of both clarity and timing in this case. and again, and making sure voters go into this election cycle with the clarity of their power to determine the future of our country in this upcoming election. >> secretary beth, grateful for your time on this important day. thank you so much with me now to continue the conversation, the best-selling supreme court biographer jeffrey toobin, our cnn senior legal analyst, elie honig, and cardozo law school's jessica roth. jeff based on the oral arguments, not a shock. if you listen to the oral arguments, this is where the courts seem to be leaning that day so we always look for clues, right? number one, there, unanimous. that's rare, but that's rare especially for this court. number two, as the former president noted, there's he noted it in an inaccurate way,

but there is the giant question of immunity still looming for the co2. we get any clues about tomorrow from what we read today. there was a paradox about today at the supreme court. there were unanimous, which is in controversial cases, unusual in this supreme court. however, there were some off justices there. you could just tell from the paper the opinions were written on the three the three justices didn't dissent. the three liberals, but they really went after the five for saying that forgiving a roadmap for how this law should be applied, instead of just saying, look what colorado was was did was wrong. that's all we should have done. the most interesting opinion was from amy coney barrett, who wrote an opinion agreeing with the three liberals, but saying, can everyone please chill out, saying, can we just like we have a controversial election coming up? let's not engage in stridency, as she said, i agree

with you if there's some heated rhetoric in the concurrence, meaning the opinion put out by the three liberals. >> but i >> think it's important to understand just exactly where the disagreement sits because it's really not much of a disagreement when you dig into it. okay. all nine agreed unanimously. this is not for the states the difference is the five and the majority said, congress is in charge of this. and the other four said, well, maybe congress, but maybe other federal authorities, not even clear what that is, but that's the entire base as a sliver of a disagreement, yet it gets blown up into this almost like world war three, kind of disagreement, which i think it's just doesn't match what the actual substantive disagreements as you jump, let me read a little bit here. >> this >> is i believe amy coney barrett, writings on the court should turn the national temperature down, not up for present purposes are differences are far less important than our unanimity. all nine justices agree on the outcome of this case. that is the message to americans should take home so as jeff says, she's trying not legal

language, but i liked it. chill everybody. chill. the question is though what you're looking at this decision about colorado, does it tell us anything even though she's trying to say we should all get along. but two, they give you any clues about how they're going to deal with immunity. >> i think it does potentially, and i think that amy coney barrett's concurrence was trying to say this is not such a big deal here. right? we don't need to make such a big fuss about the disagreements here. and i think that the liberal justices were saying no, no, there's actually a lot at stake here one is that with respect to trump and disqualification, there's actually a lot of significance to what the majority goes ahead and reaches that they didn't need to hear. they're really foreclosing other avenues of good to kading through federal courts, whether or not donald trump engaged in insurrection. and they talk about, for example, somebody who is in some way aggrieved by an action taken by him as an executive officer could bring suit to argue in federal court that he was disqualified under section three of the 14th amendment. so they're angry that the court is precluding that kind of alternative federal

adjudication of his ineligibility >> on the >> looming immunity point. there's a sort of methodological question here. i should courts go ahead and reach unnecessary questions or should they narrowly decide the case before them? what i read into that disagreement is what they expect could happen in the immune and indeed case. in other words, a narrow decision on immunity might hold. there is no immunity for the allegations in this indictment, and we don't have to reach anything further, but a broader holding might be under this standard that we're going to set forth here today for the first time, a president could be immune from prosecution. and now we're going to send it back to the lower courts to apply that standard to the facts here, and that would lengthen the proceedings on the immunity question such that we would never get to trial before the electorate. >> remember what just happened in the supreme court. >> they >> just granted certiorari on the immunity case and they've put the case on, i would say a fairly slow schedule, which will not quite, but almost guaranteed that donald trump

will not be tried before the election. >> it is not out of >> the question that the three liberal justices were off about that. and i think some of the language you saw, the anger on what is as you would set a relatively minor disagreement just that the court is as polarized as it usually is, even in a unanimous. >> and so again, that's what fascinates me as the non-lawyer at the table that liberals are outnumbered. they know that it's six to three. there are numbered. so when you see amy coney barrett, the last trump appointee coming in and saying, let's all try to get along here. the question is, number one, do they take it as genuine? the call they take it as more of a political argument. but you're always watching robert saved obamacare. yeah, where's roberts is going to be? that's what everyone always asks first. but what about the trump justices? are we learning anything about her? is she trying to be more sandra day o'connor or can you figure that out? >> i i feel like it's not going to get better in terms of how they're all getting along. i mean, it's just hard math, it's six-three and if you're on the liberal side and you want to win, you need to flip

to, you need roberts plus one. and i, we haven't seen that while we've seen it happening in some cases, but none of the big political cases and immunity, i really think could be a defining moment here. i think jessica is right. i think we need to watch out for the possibility that they don't even decide it that they send it back down to the trial court, which will completely end any chance of trying it, that if they do that is the biggest gift they could give donald trump. let's, let's be clear about that than anything other than a clear victory for jack smith and the department of justice is a victory for donald trump, even if they say there's no absolute immunity is trump is asking for clarity. >> you want clarity >> i just want to follow the news out to elie honig. >> kara. thank for your time today. some of the former president's griping that you heard at the top of the program about what he calls rogue judges. i may have been about his two new york cases, the civil fraud case. he lost the upcoming criminal trial later this month, there were new developments connected to both

today through the trump organizations, former top finance guy allen weisselberg and his former attorney, michael cohen. cnn's kara scannell has been following all of those developments and joins us now, kara, what do we learn today >> yeah, so alan weisberg, longtime confidant of donald trump, pleaded guilty to two felony counts of perjury. this relates to testimony he gave during the new york attorney general's civil fraud investigation into the trump organization. and when he testified at the trial last year and has false statements relate to testimony about the size of trump's triplex apartment at trump tower. it had been valid for years on the company's financial statements as though it was 30,000 square feet reality, it was just under 11,000 square feet. one of the statements that weisselberg admitted today the being false was he was asked at the trial and in his deposition whether he'd been present when donald trump talked about the size of the apartment, he said he hadn't. in reality, he had been he was present when trump was talking to reporters from forbes magazine about that so weisselberg, under this deal will serve about five months at

rikers island. this will be his second trip there because they already served 100 days when he pled guilty in 2022 to 15 counts of tax fraud. now importantly, though as part of this still despite pressure from the da's office, weisselberg is not cooperating against donald trump, so he will not be tested to find at the trial later this month involving those hush money payments, despite being at the center of it, both with knowledge of michael cohen advancing the payment to stormy daniels and then the reimbursement of that money to come in, john, as that plays out, the former president's legal team is again going after the manhattan da, alvin bragg. what does that about what they say? >> yeah in this has been a constant point of scrutiny that they've been putting on bragg saying that this is prosecutorial misconduct, saying that he is essentially picking on allen weisselberg, but not looking at the testimony that michael cohen had given, both at the trial that same trial, and in other court hearing saying that he should be prosecuted, this has come up before prosecutors have said that that it's fair game for cross by trump's attorneys at the trial. and that trial

that jury selection is expected to begin three weeks from today. >> john, three weeks from today, kara scannell, appreciate those important updates up next now that the supreme court has taken the ballot access off the table, we'll look closer at the campaign itself, some troubling new polling for the incumbent president and how tomorrow super tuesday primaries could come close to clinching the delegate math for donald trump. and later, you don't wanna ms this our david culver inside haiti, torn by gang violence and now under a state of emergency, right in the middle of this three super tuesday coverage begins tonight at 06:00 p.m. on cnn and streaming on max. >> hi, i'm chris and i lost 57 pounds angola go low, isn't complicated. i don't have to follow a restrictive diet and i don't have to spend a lot of time making meals using goal was truly transformative. it was easy and inexpensive

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democrats that's also are voting. let me just bring this up here and show this as well. you bring up the democratic side of this and super tuesday with flip it over here to the primaries like this. president biden 206 to uncommitted delegates so far he is also on a path to renomination and we'll get very close tomorrow night as all those delegates come in, which brings in now, where are we assuming trump and biden continued? their path to the nomination where are this is our cnn poll of polls. forgive me for turning my back. i just want to bring this up a little larger, 48% for trump, 46% for biden. that is no clear leader. if you look at some of the late individual polls that go into this average, trump has been running a little bit stronger, but if you average them all together, which is the smart thing to do, don't over-invest in any one poll. no clear leader. but trump has clearly been gaining a little bit of steam as we go forward. why is he gaining steam while these are the numbers that are troubling for the president. here's one from the new, new york times sienna college poll. is president biden too old to be an effective president among all voters, 73% say yes, 25% say no. here's the troubling part, even in his own party pretty president needs big

democratic turnout in the fall, more than half, 56% of democrats say they think he's too old to be an effective president. 43% say no, so that is one challenge for the president as he runs out the primary season, as he gives that big speech. thursday night address that the problems are deeper for the president. again, he is the incumbent president 24% of americans say the countries on the right track two-thirds, two-thirds. say it is not 65%, say the country is the wrong track, is the president prepares to deliver his state of the union address. one more incumbents are often judged by their approval rating. you start to get eight months out from an election. that's a problem. that's a problem that's the number the president has the change 36% approve of his performance right now in office, 61% disapprove. that means a lot of democrats, if 61% disapprove that means democrats as well. so let's have a conversation about where we are in the prac calendar state of the union and beyond. let's bring in our cnn political commentators van jones and margaret hoover, also joining us. the former democratic presidential candidate, democratic national committee chairman and the governor or vermont howard dean, governor, i want to start with you, you know what it's

like to give a stay, the state address, you know, the president's weaknesses and you understand campaigns. what does the president, if you could tell the president to do? one thing right now, whether it's addressed the age issue or the wrong track issue, what would you do? >> i joke about the age issue and i talk about as unbelievable record, this is a guy who's got the strongest domestic policy record since lyndon johnson ironically, most of the jobs he's created are going to the very states in the rural states that vote against him, which is insane to me i think he just has to do doing very good job and give a very good speech and he's more than capable of doing that. >> so van let's follow up on the governor. if you look deeply into the new york times sienna college poll, here's one of the things you look at a politician. so what am i getting here, right? we live in a transactional world, right? so 40% of registered voters said trump's policies helped them personally. only 18% say biden's policies helped them personally. governor dean just said he's got the greatest records since lyndon johnson why the disconnect >> very simple. those covid,

checks. people remember that i actually got some money directly and so that's that becomes a part of people's memory. and also people forgot a whole bunch of the bad things that happened during the trump years because covid was difficult and inflation was difficult. now that starting to heal, but people still have that memory of those coefficients. like i think biden has an important job to do not only to talk about his great record as governor said but what he's going to do going forward the prices are coming down, everything but food and housing so he's got to show he's willing to fight on the food prices, got to fight the grocery told him to quit, gouge the american people at the cash register. he's got a push on the fair to get these housing prices down, to get the interest rates down, you've got show he's going to be fighting for what ordinary people are dealing with every day. and then didn't get back in his fight. well, we count the votes tomorrow night. trump can't clench, but he can get really close yet, if you look at some of the past states so it's the

glass three quarters full or one-quarter empty, i guess i would ask if mickey haley keeps getting 20%, 30%, 40% is that what you're looking for? is the president addressing his tweak. this is the former president dressing his weaknesses on. >> nikki haley keeps addressing donald trump's take. he says, much to his own chagrin and look, she's clearly made some kind of a calculation with her campaign about what staying competitive means, both to her internally and then to our donors. because frankly, this is literally a question of whether that staying competitive question is salient for the people who continue to fund the campaign to go beyond super tuesday to the next round, misstates and beyond and beyond. and how how far how much does she have to win tomorrow in order for them to continue to fund this effort that well, i'm fully supportive, but the republican alternative to donald trump has always felt somewhat implausible and has always rested on some kind of strategy that wasn't clear beyond a hope and prayer. >> but what she's back in south carolina tomorrow, the expectation as if she doesn't have a surprise and when a couple of states that she will say enough, is that your

expectation? >> that is not my hope, and i'm living on open a prayer but that maybe maybe what happens, governor de euro, grassroots guy, you like to go out and work the streets. you'd like to organize, you get things going. so i want your perspective. you talked about joke about the age, talk about your accomplishments. i've been traveling a lot and i think you have a point about some of the policies, but the thing that strikes me is the visit the ability issue. a lot of people think where is the precedent why hasn't he been out more? you're still in touch with people around the country who as you, when you're organizing days, both as a candidate of the dnc, how much of it is that the people want to see an energetic president in their state, in their community, or how much of it is he just needs to better explain what got the congress to pass a couple of years because this is the frustrating part. this is where i'll >> redox to blame the media the media is fascinated with donald trump. they created donald trump and they can't stay away from because they want the clicks no matter what the clicks and this is, i'm not just talking about television, i'm talking about the new york times. look at their coverage of trump. it's an outrage every day and his people love

it. >> the >> truth is, biden has been all over the place and he just doesn't get the same coverage because he's got a charlatan and an entertainer and a crook and all the things that people like to write about it is really, really frustrating. and the other part of course is on social media. there's no editors so the more clicks more coverage and it doesn't matter what the clicks are about. so that's the frustrating part about this biden's a quality guy, and he's performed very, very well. he's not getting the credit for it because trump understands entertainment and biden does it and the media is false for it every time. and so to the american people, there's lot of americans out there who have no idea what the biden has accomplished, and they have a lot of ideas about trump, most of which are wrong. >> you agree with that, you're also an organizer guy. i talked to you when i've come back to some of my trips and go door-knocking in milwaukee and you have a 70 something-year-old black woman say, i may not vote? yeah. >> because i don't think it matters anymore. who specifically? that's where

it's the precedent. yeah. look, i see a little bit different from the governor in that first of all this gossip thing is weighing him down. he there's a part of that. those numbers that you see, our young people, especially they're just dismayed by what they're seeing in gaza. that's real. i also think he hasn't done as many interviews i'm the governor is correct. and he's been out there more than gets credit for, but he's done fewer interviews and you would expect for a president. and i think those things hurt him. i think he can turn around, i think right now, a lot of democrats are in denial that he's even going to be our nominee. but once i think it's clear that he is there going to go from being in denial to being determined that trump not win. but right now, this is real and i think i think you got to deal with it. >> so if the incumbent president, president biden has to deal with the tried to bring younger voters back, tried to get the base rallied up. another big target would obviously be anybody about it for nikki haley at primary, is that what you would do if you're working the biden campaign? absolutely. take all your money and resources and say, okay, 40% of them are not going to vote for joe biden. but if you can get if in a state like new hampshire, a state like pennsylvania, you can give three or 4% of them

bingo especially if you're running on democracy and defending democracy, don't want the broadest possible coalition of voters to join, join with you. and that's disaffected republicans of which there's at least a good 25%, perhaps a third, by the way. and that's just the primaries wait until we get to the governor respectfully says we've been spending a lot of time. i'll donald trump. well, you just wait until this is a really at two candidate race. i think the scrutiny will come with donald trump at it in an all new way that actually will probably play unfavorably for donald trump. i will just say one more thing. this sienna poll shows that unquestionably the republican party is not picking a winner if they picked donald trump because it is fundamentally clear that if nikki haley with republican candidate, she would be able to beat donald trump or whoever the democratic candidate work. >> but you also say, i'll give the governor this point that we focus. he's the incumbent president, so we focus more on the bad numbers for him. there's a bad numbers for donald trump in that post while you're absolutely right about that, van jones, margaret hoover, governor dean, appreciate your time tonight. coming up. we'll continue this conversation and dive into an extended newly released interview. president biden granted new yorker reporter evan osnos joins us to explain

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closed captioning. he's brought to you by christian faith publishing, right? for a higher purpose published with us christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands at your labor is more than just a book called our scan for your free riders guide, 800 president biden says he's about to prove all of a snarky pundits and all the democratic handwringing is wrong. again, in an interview with the new yorker, the president takes a defiant tone and says he is in the 2024 race because he believes he is best positioned to beat the former president donald trump. biden spoke with reporter evan osnos, who's written a biography her feet of the 46th president that interview taking place in mid-january the article joe biden's last campaign is a wide ranging interview, but also covers the president's opinions on the economy, israel and ukraine, and more. this is how osnos describes their conversation about the november election and concerns among

democrats about biden's viability, quote given the doubts i asked, wasn't it a risk to say? i'm the one to do it? he shook his head and said no, i'm the only one who has ever beat him. and i'll beat him again for biden the offense of the contested election was clearly personal. joining me now, evan osnos, in addition to that biography of the president, his latest book is on the deep divisions here in the united states is titled wildland the making of america's fury. evan, grateful for your time. i want to get some of the specifics in a minute, but not everybody gets to spend a lot of time with the president around the oval office. so you had that unique access. you also have spent a lot of time with him over the years. then you're back with him after not seeing him for a while for something like this what just jumped out at you being in the presence of him? how is he different physically? the house he different temperamentally, and how pumped was he on this question of he says, i can beat him again. >> you what struck me, john, one of the first things he did when i got there to the oval office was he said, let me show you where donald trump sat and watched the revolution that was his term to describe the events

of january 6, he walked me over to the oval office dining room, which is back in the private chambers there, which of course is where the select committee says that donald trump spent that afternoon. what the reason i mentioned that is one of the first things he did was he wanted in his own way, he was thinking about donald trump. you cannot talk about joe biden, right now and his state of mind without thinking about trump, look on a physical level he is slower. it is movements in his gestures. no question about it. his mind seem to to me. he didn't bungle a date or a name or anything like that. i was looking to see any signs of that. what struck me most of all, john, was that he was in a defiant state of mind. he is in some ways he's looking to make a case for himself now so the point you made is actually instructive. if you read the >> entire article and i urge people to >> detail, you're not just going to be the president, you have a wide ranging conversation with democratic strategists and other experts around there you talk about the first thing you did to show you where donald trump watch january 6 so they believe democracy, trump and democracy trump in democracy trump in

tomography, that's what they believe inside the white house. your article go into print before this latest new york times sienna poll, but you've seen the polling that the president's job performance is way underwater views on the economy, right track, wrong track are very bad for an incumbent president. so how does what he says square with those numbers? or does he just think they're not real? >> on some level, there is a lot of suspicion in the white house about polling. i think there is a feeling that over the last few years, even going back to 2016, that polls have shown themselves to be unreliable partly in the age of the cell phone. look, it tends to be candidates who are not leading in the polls tend to question the polls >> there is more for specificity to their concerns. jen o'malley dillon, who is an influential aid around the president working for the campaign. she says, we don't believe that these favorability polls line up exactly with what people actually do in the ballot box. look, that's a controversial statement, john, you know, some democrats will disagree with that. some will agree with it. the what's interesting is that that's what they believe if you're trying to understand their strategy,

that's one of the insights that gives you a feel for why they are not more ruffled than other democrats, maybe over the years, he has bristled and his team has bristles that the idea that, you know, joe biden is not a presidential contender and you, he did lose twice, but then he won so when they hear a lot of this, they call it bedwetting, they call it people who don't understand them and their team. i want to focus on the president specifically because it's very rare for somebody to get extended time as you did with the president. he's aware of what people are saying about him. >> what did he tell you? >> you know, interestingly, john, there's a kind of deep seeded element of joe biden that runs all the way back to his childhood, which is that he feels like he has always been out to try to prove the doubters wrong. we sometimes talk about his stutter. you cannot understand this guy without understanding how much that is an imprint on everything he does in politics even today. at the age of 81, that he is alert to the sense that he has defied the predictions more than once and then more recently defied them

in 2020, defied them in 22, i should say in the midterms when democrats outperformed, divide them in 23, and there's an edge to him, john, honestly, that was one of the things that it really struck me. he has over the years there was a kind of a jolly quality about joe biden. there were moments of that still there, but there is a sense of conviction that he's doing something that is very personal for him. this is partly, we sometimes say that donald trump stole the election. he stole it from donald from jet, from joe biden, i should say. i mean, that is really on some level, one of the elements that is going on in the background, and joe biden is not somebody who wants to be pushed aside. that is very clear feeling and it is very present in his conversation. >> you mentioned jake hey, there is sex and the president using the term revolution. what our presidents how did, how did he articulate his biggest concerns and the case he wants to make against trump yeah, i have to tell you one thing that was very striking to me was he

said, i am prepared for the fact that this man is going to contest this result. he said losers who lose are never grateful or never graceful when they're losing. that is a big idea, meaning that he is prepared for the idea that we could have somebody contesting in the election in 24 as we did in 20, i think it's worth pausing on just considering the full implications of that. he's gonna be making this case to americans over the course of the next several months, there is a deep feeling among his advisers that the offense of january 6, that on some level, it is still something that deeply collide with our sense of what it means to be in american politics that we don't do violence in politics, and that he thinks that as we get closer to election day, that idea will take on greater and greater salience significance in people's mind. that's a political bet. it's a part of a message. and it's revealing to us to know that that's one of the things that they believe is significant. >> evan osnos appreciate it's a fascinating interview and a greater broader piece there.

nice to keep that as you watch the next several months play out, we'll see if the baseline the president lays out. so stands the test of time haven't. thanks for your time tonight. just ahead for us inside the gang violence that is now consuming haiti, which just declared a state of emergency, cnn's david culver i want to spend on the ground there joins us next with their saudi vegas story of sin city next sunday at ten on cnn we've come from a long ladder. cowboys >> when i see all was at illinois ranch, i see how far our legacy you can go >> there's something going around the gordon. good thing, gertrude found delsam. how, what's going around is 12-hour kfar leaf angela good the family that takes delta them together feels better together. >> he was only 47 aneurism.

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walk >> yeah >> already smell it >> wow, look at people still making there as tires are burning right in the middle of this street here >> no police barricade, know firefighters, most seemingly unfazed. these flames have been burning for several hours. haiti has been engulfed in turmoil for years >> we don't have a home that might have and we don't have that's what they're shouting. >> many here now fear their country is on the brink of exploding. >> feel safe right now. >> no, no no? >> does it doesn't mccarthy is broken right now >> these folks blame the current government and prime minister ariel omri, appointed following the assassination of president jovenel moise in 2021. they want henri to go, but he says he's not yet ready

to step down this as panicked streets, shootouts like this one have become a near daily occurrence. it's often a clash between police and the gangs, which have essentially taken haiti hostage which they flaunt their weapons and wealth on tiktok, threatening police and basking in lawlessness many residents now living behind barricades this is not the gangs doing this. the folks that live in these neighborhoods who are putting these up to prevent gangs from coming in and kidnapping using whatever might stop or slow the kidnappers. efforts to protect families and preserve innocence. that innocence shattered for others, this 14-year-old it says he was recruited by a gang at 11. tells me he's often forced to burn the bodies of those killed by other gang members. >> lunch. >> want to change? my way of life. he says, with a heavy look of shame at an early morning food distribution, we

need dozens of women who have felt the wrath of gang violence at times, we notice a lost stare in their eyes >> all of them had been. so there's nobody here was not going pick this woman sister shot and killed. this one's husband, burned alive inside their home. this woman tells us she was raped. she shows us the marks left behind in recent months, gangs have seized more and more control over this country, including the roads leading to port-au-prince. officials estimate that gangs now control as much as 80% of the capital. even the us embassy and international airport are mostly surrounded by rival gang territories. it's led the haitian national police to create an undercover unit we go with them to the front lines. >> this unit actually goes into gang areas, looks for gang members and by the officers asked us not to reveal our exact location. and they tell us to work quickly given we're standing exposed on a windy

hill side as police have described it to me, basically everything behind me is occupied by the gangs. it's under their control their homes all around us. we're standing on the foundation of one home there have been abandoned. they offered to drive as closer. >> and you can see they're getting ready? yes. are drivers on geared up now ready for potential gunfire that are white? stay away from the windows as we come in here. they described this as the last defensive point. and beyond here is what they consider to be there front lines from here, you can see the battlefield, no signs of any suspected gang members for now, police are not the only ones trying to gain the upper hand here in a fractured state, alternatives to the gangs and government surface we're headed to meet a commander of b sap, haiti's armed environmental protection agency that has splintered from the henry government challenging its legitimacy. we pull up to a gated compound, the man and the purple shirt leads us in event changes into

his b sample uniform it's the commander. he's in hiding from police. his message echoes the anti-government protester. >> put a volley show. >> he flexes be sap strengthen numbers and its potential to help bring stability but when it comes to his own family you mentioned you have four kids. what do you think? their future is in this country he fears their future is best served, leaving haiti the desperation is felt beyond port-au-prince in places like jeremy, the un chopper is the safest way to get there. it's about an hour ride members of the world food programme take us through this rural coastal community, devastated by recent protests. >> right back there, you had to five people were killed last week right there. it was right there. yeah. yeah. >> we arrive at this agricultural consortium, the wfp buys food from these local farmers to then handout. but the recent protests have blocked distribution efforts

even some food despoil it's frustrating for the wfp officials as they know, you don't have to look far to find hunger here. these farmers pointing to their stomachs, lifting their shirts to us. >> we are hungry >> a lot of folks will look at haiti and they'll say it's how to issues for so long. the question that no doubt people in the us will ask is, well, why should we help while there are two reasons why you need well, first of all, there on humanitarian grounds, but then there's also her only self-interest in the us. so the longer you wait to act on haiti the, more migrants there will be on our southern border. it's that simple >> many here search for normalcy, where they can't even with the threat of violence missing mass for some is not an option they wear their sunday best unite in prayer places of worship are not immune from gang terror.

>> they at >> least off for a moment of tranquility and hope for now >> david culver joining us out bad, sad, but fascinating reporting, david, how are haitians feel about the question of international intervention? and is it clear what form that might could take in the short-term? >> so in the immediacy, john, it's likely to look like 1,000 kenyan police officers. it would be deployed any day now to haiti. and we know late last week, prime minister ariel henry was in kenya and he signed that agreement but that is part of what fueled this most recent outbreak and has the seen this surge in violence really get out of control? the folks on the ground that we spoke with they don't want afford force there in fact, a lot of them would come up to us angry that the us, canada, france are supporting these multinational security forces with finances. they're not contributing troops, but they say even contributing the funding is something that they don't want to see. instead, they hoped to have the

stability through elections. the question john is, how do you create that stable climate without eradicating the gangs and then how do you eradicate the gangs? without bringing in the forces to do that, it remains unknown and until now it looks like haiti like that gentleman said, will be a broken state and it's the folks on the ground, the people there that are paying the price rice every single day. david culver, appreciate that fascinating reporting up next for us, some breaking news email and text messages revealed a new details on the scope of the fake electors plot and how it continued? yes. even after january 6, what happened to the golden boy of new jersey, governor jim the >> i engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man. >> it was shot was it an instant attraction? yeah >> greed these top fundraiser under investigation, he put it in lover, want to stay payroll or reasons immigrating resigned is a lot more common. located and we remember did you want to

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normal guy like me, i've given myself a small raise, join me at trying.com. >> i'm rafael romo, the georgia state capitol in atlanta. this cnn some breaking news now, text messages and emails made public as part of a lawsuit show that kenneth chesebro, the attorney who helped come up with >> the trump campaign's fake electors plot, kept proposing ways to overturn the 2020 election. yes. even after the january 6 capital attack, cnn's zach cohen joins us with the details. so what was kenneth chesebro up to after after january 6 >> yeah. john, we've known that can chesebro is qualified as the architect of the fake electors plot and the lead up to january 6. but we're now learning that he continued to beat that drum after the violence the us capitol on january 6 and want to read this text message from him to that he sent to another trump lawyer from wisconsin two days after the us capitol riot. he says, the events of the last two days open up legal options. the states for winning rulings

favorable to trump. he then goes on to say that maybe they can revisit some of the past petitions that they were trying to use to overturn the 2020 election in trump's favor. he then pitches of a variety of different ideas, ideas that would have gotten other people and legal hot water. and this runs counter to what he's told state prosecutors, he's interviewed in almost a dozen states now about his role in the fake electors plot. and he essentially described himself as somebody just trying to give legal advice to donald trump into the white house as they sought to legally challenge the outcome. we now know he was way more intimately involved and not just leadup january 6. but in the days afterwards. >> and so what else was revealed in these text messages and emails say about chesbro's actions and whereabouts on january 6 >> yeah. john, i mean, of all the people that jack smith, the special counsel, has identified as trump's coconspirators and trying to overturn the 2020 election chesebro might be the only one who actually showed up to the us capitol on january 6. these text messages include selfies, where he took selfies with conspiracy theorist alex jones at the us capitol on the same day that the riot

happened. and look, even bragged at one point about being able to whiff tear gas that was fired at protesters in the us capitol on the de highlighting his proximity to the action that was going on. so it really does call into question again, chesebro description of themselves as just a lawyer trying to give legal advice to president, trying to challenge the outcome, and maybe more as an activist and somebody who is really trying to push his own desires, its own gender through his role as a lawyer. >> and what legal jeopardy does just that lawyer face right now, as we know, chesebro has already pled guilty in georgia, where the fani willis, the da there is investigating efforts to overturn the election results. he's an unindicted coconspirator in jack smith's indictment of donald trump. i'm told that the feds, the federal investigators i have not reached back out to chesebro since he informed them who's gonna take a plea deal in georgia, he's interviewed with again by about five different state prosecutors in his time since taking a plea deal. so ramp to see, but lying to state prosecutors or not being fully truthful with state prosecutors can be a problem. >> learning