grabbed my breath we actually had more people know he did not trump drew about 53,000 people on january 6, while around 250,000 people showed for martin luther king at that same press conference, trump also bristled when asked about vice president kamala harris's crowd sizes i'll give me a break. listen i had 107,000 people in new jersey. >> you didn't report it. i'm so glad you us. what does she ever yesterday, 2000 people. if i ever had 2000 people, you'd say my campaign is finished. >> harris, his team says 14,000 people were at her rally in philly so delphine and 15,000 in detroit. >> it's not as if anybody cares about crowd sizes or anything and anderson is not just crowd size, its crowds style to remember cassidy hutchinson, the former white house aide, when she testified before the january 6 committee under oath saying that team

trump would arrange for their crowds to be in long and long a narrow fashion to make for better picture taking. >> she also testified that on january 6, when he gave his speech before the attack on the capitol, the former president was very frustrated because the crowd was more spread out and there were obstructions in the way that made photograph graphing the crowd very difficult. so here you have these very pivotal days, anderson and the concern is about the crowd. it's truly remarkable randi kaye, thanks. >> the news continues here on cnn outfront next, trump's struggling to define kamala harris today announcing he is biggest ad buy yet, we've got new reporting this hour on a bold move by harris. will president biden is saying about this pleasant their first joint us interview? >> vladimir kara murza, putin, critic just freed from a brutal russian prison in solitary confinement, joins me here, live with his wife. what's it like to be together with the fears of putin? it could come after him again. james carville and paul begala together,

again, their prediction about j.d. vance tonight and why harris walz reminds them of another winning ticket? they both know very well go outfront. and good evening. i'm erin burnett, outfront tonight, trump spending big after new polls show vice president harris ahead in key battleground states, trump and his allies announcing major new ad buys tonight. so right now we can tell you trump is making his long are just ad buy of his entire campaign, 37 million. and it's illuminating on your screen. all in major swing states. and a trump super pac also just announcing moments ago that it is going to spend $100 million ads just over the next three weeks just now, between now and labor day, trump is acting in some senses like he's about to lose throwing everything at harris. and what seems to be a fairly random effort to see if anything sticks the spaghetti at the wall strategy evident today when trump tried branding harris a flip-flopper, which of course is a rather tough argument to make coming from trump i'm very pro-choice.

>> i'm also proud to be the most pro-life president in american history mail-in voting is totally corrupt and make a plan to vote either by mail early in person, or to vote on election day. you know, i'm a poll maven, i became like the all-time expert on paul's. could we do very little polling? because i'm not a huge believer in polling so there's that right now. >> there's this, which is the effort to nickname kamala harris, the trump campaign today put out a statement today saying, quote, camila has proven to be a chameleon in order to gaslight voters camilion with a k, right? you got it. now, it is worth noting though, that these attacks trying to brand harris a chameleon did start soon after we were told this by a former longtime close friend of j.d. vance what i've seen is a chameleon, someone who is able to change their positions and their values depending on what will amass them.

>> political power and wealth but chameleon flip-flopper in this spaghetti against the wall strategy that seems to be at play right now, join other attacks against harris that so far have not gained any traction in fact, trump, who made his entire fortune and branding and who has again and again nicknamed his political rivals, rivals with both a juvenile and yet incredibly powerfully cutting talent with names that stick and define them to their detriment has for the first time, failed repeatedly to nickname kamala harris now we have a new victim to defeat lyon kamala harris lyon ly in i call a laughin' kamala. you ever watch a laugh? >> she's crazy you can tell a lot by a laugh. no, she's crazy, she's not say lying rally i go left liberal san francisco extremist and we're going to defeat crazy kamala

none of these have stuck at, neither has purposely mispronouncing the vice president's name as you heard him do there several times. >> but the real irony on this actually comes from trump's its own running mate this weekend, j.d. vance i think that what it is is two people, kamala harris and tim walz who aren't comfortable in their own skin because they're uncomfortable with their policy positions for the american people. >> and so they're name-calling instead of actually telling the american people how they're going to make their lives better name-calling, okay. >> instead of trying to tell people how you can make their lives better, will trump's latest name calling and personal attacks are being criticized even more directly than that by his clothes allies you've got to make this race not on personalities stop questioning the size of her crowds and start questioning her position and. >> mccarthy is correct, trump is questioning the size of harris, his crowds over the weekend spreading false conspiracy theory that harris quote, cheated and quote ai, the crowd and a region recent

michigan event. the reason this was so bizarre is, of course, there were a lot of people there to witness the event, including our cameras are on video from the event, which shows you what our cameras filmed. thousands of people were in fact, they're mj lee is outfront at the white house house tonight to begin our coverage and mj trump is accusing harris now of stealing one of his policy proposals on taxing tips for service workers, which is obviously a crucial issue in swing states, including nevada. this is something that it's actually interesting because i know that biden actually has even weighed in on this yet yeah, you're absolutely right. >> and, you know, establishing her own policy platform is one of the many things that come kamala harris has had to do with unusual speed and it was really noteworthy over the weekend that we saw her come out in support of eliminating taxes on tips that are earned by hospitality and service workers and no coincidence that she did it when she was in las vegas. this is a course, a huge part of the economy be there. but what was really notable, as you said, is the fact that the

vice president actually came out in support of this policy before president biden did vice president do not typically do that? they are there to support and back the policy positions taken by the president and their role is really to play sort of the supporting role. but the difference france now of course, is that in different from three weeks ago, she is now suddenly a presidential candidate. and the white house press secretary actually, earlier today asked about this policy positions. she said that the president does support this policy stance and confirm that for the first time again, an unusual order of events we don't typically see this. she was adamant that there is no daylight between the vice president and the president on this issue. and the other thing that made this really interesting politically is exactly what you said that donald trump has taken this policy position before and that of course, has prompted the trump campaign to call her a basically a copycat. the rnc used the nickname copycat

camila. later this week we are going to see the vice president laying out additional economic policy positions. so that is going to be an interesting space to watch. are there new policy stances that she takes that are different from what? the policy stances are of the biden administration so far, mj. >> thank you very much. at the white house. alright, so here to discuss it at our dining room table, lulu garcia-navarro. so i mean lying camila crazy comma he's trying his nicknames right. even going so far as to spell out line with the apostrophe yet none of this has worked so far. it does feel spaghetti against the wall. >> if you have to spell it then probably it isn't going to stick. i just wanted to start by saying that that isn't going to be a very effective strategy donald trump here is really struggling. i've spoken to democrats who are sort of marveling at this moment to see how much he feels like he is not able to wield as magical power that they used to feel that he could wield, which was naming someone and having that

person be completely destroyed. if you think about how he used that during the republican primaries, all the nicknames that he used from marco rubio all these things and hillary, right? and it sticked and everyone and it became the lens through which people viewed them. whereas camilla has been used to call donald trump teflon. but camila is the person at this point who is really been able to not be defined by him. and the more that he tries it, i think the less effective it is. >> i mean, shermichael, it's like when we talked about the polls, he cares so deeply about that he cares about when i was on the show was the highest rated show or the polls he cares about those things. so the swing polling coming out and i've seen some polls so closer than others. but nonetheless, over the weekend, even in the news stark post, which he reads, the headline was not good for him. michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin. he's trailing these margins in american electoral politics or seismically, laura, i mean,

this is big chasm i will see, who those poll shows since early, so i'm not, i'm not saying that, but i'm saying that psychologically for him, this is a lot. i mean, just listen to him himself talking about polls. >> look, it's a lot for us too, right? because we look at the numbers. >> if it's bad, i just saw i say it's fake. if it's good, i say that's the most accurate poll perhaps i love polls only when they're good, when they're not good. i don't talk about it when i was campaigning, i only mentioned that when we're doing well in the polls, when we're not doing well, i don't talk about it a lot of this is psychology. i mean, clearly i was ready to jump in and start talking about the polls clearly. >> i mean, look hello, this there are aaron rather, this is why i think the former president's team is trying to adjust itself to lulu's point about the former president been painted as this teflon don type character that is true. >> and i think in politics you have to readjust your strategy

for him. he looks at the polls phone numbers, you look at the people who turned out and say, this is how i know if i'm doing well, this is all know if i'm not doing so well for him, not seeing the numbers showcase his strength that we saw several weeks though against biden is an indicator that the numbers are changing against him. i think we all recognize that to be true, it's why he's spending 73 million bucks and then a super pac, another hundred million dollars over the next three weeks to try to define the vice president but some crucial issues. now when you look at that time, sienna poll, there are two areas where i think there is an opportunity for the trump campaign is still on the economic front, is still an immigration. can they move the needle on those two issues to close that polling gap? >> but you know what's so interesting in that same poll, when you look at the issue of who is more trustworthy, when you look on the issue is who has better leadership qualities kamala harris takes it in a massive fashion and that is about the person and not the policies. it's very hard to shift those viewpoints and

he's not helping with the way that he's behaved. and so far this campaign, at this very nascent campaign that we are in here has not really been about policy it has been about memes and images and emotion of what people feel short. >> of course, if kevin mccarthy has publicly criticizing you, i mean, he's the greatest sycophant in modern politics. know that you're really veering off course. but you put an interesting image up on screen, which is all of this republican messaging that's going to be coming out well-funded. but they're an unfortunate situation right now because they're going to positioning so much of that funding in towards this spaghetti approach that you mentioned trying to caricature the vice president as something. of course, that she is not. what will they not be talking to though? about as a result, they will not be talking about the economy and they won't be talked about the thing that they need to talk about, which is trying to lie to the american public and position donald trump as the sane alternative because of course he is not. they won't message about at it and that's why they're going. >> okay. go ahead. >> but i've looked at some of

the ads that have not come out yet, and they are going to focus on the economy. they are going to focus on immigration. there being specific, you'll see immigration ads run in places like arizona, nevada, economic issues and places like pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin. they are being smart about the target. >> so when you're targeting independence, i mean, still write your base. you basis, or solidified what you're targeting whatever, whatever center is defined as this point. i'm curious, lulu, as to whether people care about this issue of issue of purpose mispronunciation of her name, which trump does repeatedly. and i'll play that because it is, it is constant and it's different ways here he is kamala, camila, kamala, they were explaining to me, you can say camila. >> you can say come on i don't worry about it, doesn't matter what i say. i couldn't care less if i mispronounced it or not, i couldn't care less. kamala sometimes referred to as commonly it is to get about nine in different ways of pronouncing the name does that matter? it matters it matters

because what he's doing there is trying to other her and say this is a woman with a strange sounding name that i can even bought he bothered to pronounce, you don't have to know who she is you know, she comes from this abadi row, not even worthy of an empty comes from this background. listen, we know that the voters that really, really come to the polls are women and beyond women are black women and so you pipe mispronouncing her name, you are offending a very large it's group of people here who, again with the cat ladies and j.d. vance, i mean, where the gop generally trump and vance in particular are very weak or with the demographic that they actually need suburban women and this kind of stuff just isn't helpful. >> what do you think about the names? i mean, issue. >> i don't think it's helpful, but i'm also not i convinced based on 2016 and 2020, trump's performance that he necessarily needs a large number of women to do well, i think they're looking at

low-propensity voters specifically, younger men and hear me out here, lulu, i think they're looking at other groups to make up for the losses of women that republicans haven't had an eight years now, that's my point. >> 50% of the population and think that you'll have a sound electoral strategy. but the deeper problem for the entire republican party is the leader of there party right now is absolutely insane and unhinged. that's the way he led as president united states and its the way is operating now as their candidate. and that's why it's a losing ticket. >> alright, i will hit pause. i know that there's a lot more to talk about this, but luckily, we will have you all back many times. >> remember one, knew where aaron next 30 days when they spend what did i just say? >> $100 million, hundred $79. alright, thanks to all. next vladimir kara kara-murza and his wife of evgenia, just days ago, he was it's in one of putin's prisons and solitary confinement now, we're reunited with his family after that dramatic prisoner swap. how did he survive years in that prison what is he going to

do now? plus what paul begala on these two running mates that he now sees, he says, and kamala harris and tim walz and james carville are united here on outfront tonight and a new and critical ruling tonight on whether jordan chiles can keep for bronze medal i'm certain it's level five. >> years for imprint, certainly certainty matters for imprint is your home for provo gear to wow clients and inspire your team. check out for imprint.com in brand for certain you didn't live this strong, this long to get put on the shelf like a porcelain doll if you have post-menopausal osteoporosis and are at high risk for fracture you can build new bone with event at asked your doctor if you can do more than just slowing down bone loss with a vanity once stronger bones then build new bone event it can help in just 12 months event it is proven to

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you deserve erin burnett outfront tomorrow at seven on cnn tonight, freedom vladimir kara murza, one of putin's fiercest and bravest critics, speaking out for the first time here in the u.s. with his family after being freed and the biggest prisoner exchange since the cold cold war, he was sentenced to 25 years in prison for treason because he dared to speak out against the russian president's war in ukraine, spending more than two years of his sentence nearly a year of its spent in solitary confinement inside one of russia's most brutal penal colonies. and tonight for the first time on us television, he joins me along with his wife. if kenya in their first joint us interviews since he was released just 11 days ago? kara-murza's 42-years-old. they have three children his wife, evgenia, fought tirelessly for his release as many of you may remember, from this program, she tirelessly appeared to fight for her husband and outfront. now, the former russian political prisoner, vladimir kara murza,

and yevgenia kara-murza. and thanks to both of you, as i said, it's like an apparition to even see you vladimir, you thought you were going to die? >> well, thank you so much for inviting me is really good to be on your show and i really mean this yes. but you talked about that that you thought that you were never going to see them again, you thought you were going to die in prison. and yet here you are. together. >> have have you even been able to process that that you are here with her and your children know frankly, i think it's a little bit too much and too quick for human mind to process. just a little over two weeks ago, i was still sitting in my solitary confinement i'm selling on harsher regime prison colony in siberia. and i was certain that i was going to end my life and influence prison. and here i am now sitting with you in a studio in new york that's to my wife and vladimir would call ski, who's a very prominent prisoner of conscience in the soviet union, who was himself exchanged famously in 1976. that exchange

was also mediated by the u.s. administration. he compared the experience of a political prisoner being so suddenly and unexpectedly release to what us deep sea diver must feel when he's suddenly taken from the depths to the surface, you just completely lose orientation in space in time and so for these past two weeks, frankly, it felt as if i'm watching some sort of film and is a really good film, but it's still feels completely surreal you know, it's, it's things that it's hard for any of us to even kind of understand or to process about you for example, you weren't talking. >> you were in solitary confinement. now you're sitting here having conversations. you're actually hearing your own voice. things like that are things that you had forgotten so i'm curious, you guinea in these, in these two years that you and i have spoken, you always had this calm presence, this fortitude, and the strength than it was hard to understand and to imagine how you were able to do that again and again, knowing

and thinking as you did at times that you weren't sure if you would see your husband again what was it like when you actually were reunited with him? >> well, first of all, i want to thank you. for all the support and all your help that if offered me over this past 2.5 years and oh, for me, this platform to be able to talk to millions of people around the world to talk to them about the nature of vladimir putin's regime and what it does to people including russian citizens who stand up to him and fight against him and so deeply grateful for that s4, our experience. i i don't think that i've been able to bring processes either. i know that it's a very welcome change that i don't have this nagging fear in the back of my mind at all times of the day that vladimir can be killed at any moment of any day that is a welcome change, but i don't think that i've been able to

process that and i look at vladimir without kids and i think about maria ponomarenko, a russian journalist sentenced to years in prison for speaking out against the war. her daughters are growing up without her. i'm thinking about yevgeny and berkovich. same thing. same story. i'm thinking about the lawyers of alexei navalny, whose children are deprived of their fathers i'm thinking about thousands of people who have been affected in the same way, our family has been affected. and i i see this. this is a victory, this the saving of 16 people from the grip of vladimir putin's regime. this is a victory, but this is it's only the beginning. we understand that there are over 1,000 political prisoners in russia. that there are thousands of ukrainian civilian hostages and walk prisoners. not to mention kidnapped ukrainian kids. and we understand that there are

over 1,000 political prisoners in neighboring belarus. the fight will have to continue. >> and i know volodymyr that you will be a part of that and i want to ask you about the future such that you even think about that now but first that moment when this prisoner exchange starts, you are 35 hours away from moscow. you say siberia in omsk you're in solitary confinement. guards burst into your cell so then what happens so the best thing to myself at 3am in omsk is the harshest prison regime anywhere in russia. >> this is western siberia was so is on thinkable, you know, you have time for sleep. nothing ever happens at night, but suddenly at 3:00 a.m. the two doors of my prison cell burst open well uniform officers. there was a prison director and this was a night from saturday to sunday when no officials there ever in normal situations and also plain clothes convoy which i've never seen before. and they said that

i had ten minutes to get up, get dressed, and get ready and i was absolutely certain of that moment that i was going to be let out and get executed they get ready for what it's just get ready, just get ready ten minutes and a few days before that, there was a really weird sort of situation where i was taken from myself into a prison office and they gave me a piece of paper and a pen and a template and requested an eye write a petition for a pardon addressed to vladimir putin. in which i would admit my guilt express remorse, what i've done and so on and so forth. first, i thought it was just a joke because, you know, when i look at the text, i just loved my face there's but they didn't seem to have a good sense of humor. they just sat stone-faced and said, please write this is not i'm not going to i'm never going to write this. they said why not? i said, well, first of all, because i do not consider vladimir putin to be a legitimate president. i consider him to be a dictator, a usurper in a murderer who is

personally responsible for the deaths of his political opponents, boris nemtsov, like alexei navalny, who is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of civilians, including children in ukraine. and i've never going to write anything to him the first place and obviously i'm not going to get any guilt because i'm not guilty of anything. the criminals for those who, are waging this war and those of us who are speaking out against it. and so i'd no idea what was happening when they took me. >> so you didn't sign that? >> no, i refused to sign and more than that, they then requested that i write my opinion mr. putin on paper, which i didn't say that and gave us they have that they have that they have that official document and so two days later, there's this night seen happen. so i thought okay, then maybe yes i didn't like what i think of mr. putin, so that's what i thought was happening. but instead of the nearby woods where i thought i was going to be taken, i was suddenly taken to a civilian airport just a normal passenger airport and august comes as large city, 1 million plus people. and i have to tell you, i mean, actually i don't have any words to express how it feels when you spent nearly a year and solitary confinement,

just sitting in a tiny cell on your own day after day, not being able to speak to anyone, not being able to go anywhere, not being able to do anything. and suddenly you find yourself in the middle of a busy passenger airport with more normal people, families, kids walking around. i was handcuffed, was under a convoy, but i was still in middle of a normal level it's put me on a plane, flew me to moscow its three-hour flight took me three weeks to get from moscow to siberia last year because there wasn't a prison train. yeah, there's still leaping prison flowers. yes, this was three hours much wicker from the airport to the infamous lefortovo prison, which is the old kgb. now the fsb prison that you write about in sochi nation's books and sharansky is books and others. they were all there so i've now had the experience in the two-and-a-half years i've been to prison. i've been to 13 different penitentiary institutions. and affordable was number 13 quite an appropriate number as well? by then? >> i thought this was going to be some sort of a new criminal case because that's what they usually take it into affordable

for i mean, there wasn't frankly too much practical meaning to giving an extra sentence to someone who already had 25 years, but what this regime that there's never any limit. >> so this is what i thought was happening held completely in incommunicado. nobody knew my family and my lawyers were being lied to that. i was still in omsk. i was in moscow sort of clandestinely then, still not understanding what was going on on the morning of 1 august i was told to give up all my person close and to dress. he nearly civilian clothing. i had which was just my night t-shirt, my black underpants, because in omsk in siberia, it's, it's -14 the winter. so you have to draw a black t-shirt and underwear. luck, a bluff, basically, yes, it's basic back on defense and also had my rubber flip-flops for the prison shout. that was my that was what i had on my feet when i was taken to germany. and then there was a bus waging in the prison courtyard and it was a really a

picture out of, i know some hollywood movie. there was a row of men in black balaclavas covering their faces. i was told to get on the bus and it was only then at the very last small one when i saw my friends and colleagues on that bus like a yashin russian opposition politician, ali gala for memorial that was only meant and i know what was happening then when you when you leave shortly after you were released, you get you get a phone call and there's only been a few phone calls that you've had with your family over the past two plus years on the other end of this call though, is your daughter? and i just want to play that moment for both of you. >> i'm going to cry dhaka pretty good morning to you good year were in the oval office no one is strong enough for this. >> i was sure to die in prison. i don't believe what's happening. i still think it's

i think i'm sleeping in my prison shatter norms instead of hearing your voice you know, as i said, everything is still feels surreal. but i have to tell you that one we were taken off that plane in ankara in turkey and we will add into some government building there i had a lady walks up to me and as you rightly said, i was i was forbidden phone calls. i only spoke to zhenya once in the two-and-a-half years into my kids, twice and so i hadn't used the phone on a while and suddenly we're in turkey having no idea what's, what's still, what's happening, feeling totally surreal lady walks up to me with a mobile phone hands it to me and says, hello, mr. kara-murza from the american embassy in ankara. the president of the united states is willing to speak to you, okay. but this time i'm giving up on trying to understand what what's happening here. and this was that phone call that you just know that you just once in two plus years. and yet here you are. >> last summer was last time how do you do this together now

baby steps baby steps just a lot of hugging, a lot of smiling and laughing and we we decided that would stay put until the end of august because latam is already ii chain to get back to work and i have a ton of work to do. because as i said, the fight the fight continues. we were going to have to do everything we can to bring down this regime and this evil but yes, we decided that we're going to take it sort of easy until at least the end of august to spend time with the kids and to just look at each other just look at each other and remember every little thing that is so dear to us. latimer and i, we've been married for over 20 years and we've always had this great connection when i saw him when he got out of

that car in frankfurt. and the kids now i flew to frankfurt to meet him there and he got out of the car and i saw him and it was like the conversation like liquid just seen each other the day before we could pick up and gone. you know. >> so that's i think that's how it fails. >> but i think that is going to be a lot of trauma that will need to process. i just i'm very lucky. i have a delayed reaction to any crisis so that helps of you're obviously going to stay with us. >> we're going to take a very brief break and then we're going to come back and continue our conversation you know, vladimir kara-murza the spend, as we said, years in one of russia's most brutal and notorious penal colonies when he talks about oms. so what was it like there? what actually did he? indoor and just he and you've guinea now still have to live in fear after his release plus j.d. vance slammed by actress glenn close, who played his grandmother and hillbilly the allergy will hear

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bunny 77, 5-3, 8388 to or visit home served served.com i wolf blitzer in tel aviv, israel. >> and this is cnn closed captioning brought to you by meso book if you or a loved one have mesothelial, will send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you, 808 to one 14000 tonight, speaking out for the first time in the u.s. >> since he was released, kremlin critic and former russian political prisoner of vladimir kara murza here with his wife yevgenia kara-murza in there the first us interview, joint interview since his release as part of the largest prisoner swap since the cold war summer, karamurza. and you have guinea are still here with me and i've gotten right just when you talk about ami skin penal colony that you're and you said the harshest in the russian system, you were in 13 different facilities. you said in the more than two years that

you were held by putin what was life like, what your everyday life like? >> every day is like groundhog day and it's meaningless. it's endless and it's exactly the same. you wake up 5:00 in the morning one official wakeup call your bank gets attached to the wall. so there's no way you can lie within. probably sit down during the day. all you can do is just walk around the cell as like a small stool, very uncommon well, there's a small desk and what you can't do anything because you're only given a pen and paper for 1.5 hours a day in which you have to cramp everything you need to do. for example, prepare for quote sessions or read, let us from your family right them back right. >> anything you want to write in terms of i don't know, articles, take notes, responses to questions from journalists all of this, you have to crump it on a half hours a day. the rest of the late essentially, you just sit you sell and stare at the wall it's a small cell to buy three meters, actually about three yards the only time you get taken out of the cell is to go out for so-called

walk, which is basically just walking around in a circle, in a small covered internal prison courtyard, not much bigger than herself, but the difference is that you can see you can see the sky through metal bars in the top and sometimes in one other prisoners i was the prison colony number seven in omsk, a special regime prison, really harsh prison in terms of the conditions there. but there was a big plus side. there were a lot of cats in that prison. and sometimes when i was walking around and the courtyard, the cats would come in, sit next to the metal bars and we can have a conversation with them. these are my only interlocutors because otherwise, you always alone. >> the only living creature that you saw because there's nobody to talk to, there's nothing to do. there's nowhere to go and you know, when people talk about torture in prisons, usually, what most people i have in mind is the cycle is the physical, the physical torture, the physical pain inflicted and there's a lot of that in a russian prison system under putin has a lot of that a

russian prison system is notorious for that but for those political prisoners who are sort of better known on home, there is more attention being paid the tortures over different kind of psychological. and i can tell you that mental and psychological torture can be no better than physical one and so primarily, it's this enforced solitude where you just have nowhere to speak to. and i think it was aristotle who said that human beings are social creatures. we need communications just as much as we need oxygen of food or water and when you have absolutely nobody to like exchange a single word with i have to say, i mean, it really starts to get on your mind. there's a reason why, according to international law more specifically, the united nations minimal standard rules and prisoners solitary confinement for more than 15 days is considered a form of torture degrading are inhumane in treatment at your entire year or 11 months? exactly. but

that's not all i was forbidden from making phone calls to my family, not just regular phone calls, but also for special occasions. for example, they banned let me from calling journey on our 20th wedding anniversary that banned me from calling my oldest daughter on her 18th birthday. and they did this on campus. this is an old soviet tradition when the regime punishes not only the political opponent, him, him or herself, but also the family members. and this is what the current regime they ever ginni's, you ever reach a point where i know that you were talking about that you thought you might not get out alive, but that you ever would have considered if you had the opportunity of taking your own life for you ever at a point where that it just didn't seem that there was anything to live for i had a feeling that there was nothing to live for on most of the days. >> i'd never consider taking my own life because i'm a christian and this goes against my faith. this is not something i ever thought about and by the way, on this point to one other condition that i was exposed to. i was not allowed to go to

church even once that there were charges at all, the prison in omsk that i was in. but because i was considered a particularly dangerous criminal being confined all the time and saw solitary cells. that was something that was prohibited to and by the way, in other, there are a lot of people, including a lot of people in the west, which still surprises me, who sort of talk of vladimir putin as a defender of family values or traditional values well, i hope that when these people continue to parrot this kremlin propaganda, but they think about those hundreds and thousands of political prisoners in russia have not alone how to talk to their families and allowed to even fell. nick kids are not allowed to go to church. what about traditional family values? there and you have this still over your life. >> i understand now, you're here as part of the swap but as you sit here, you're his life is still in danger. as long as he still speaks out against putin in which he's doing. and he said he will do. and as you said, you will fight for the release of others who are still suffering and still in prison

your family, you are both under threat how are you going to still deal with that? >> you cannot allow yourself to become paranoid in front of something. so atrocious as the regime of vladimir putin. the only way the only way to go is to continue on. >> this is vladimir putin is a bully. >> and he tries to threaten he tries to intimidate, he tries to these are his methods. >> so if you give into that you lose you cannot allow yourself to be paranoid. and we know we, all these russian activists, journalists, politicians who work nowadays, who continue the fight. they know that their lives are in danger they still go on. >> do you think that there will ever be a time when you can or would return to russia oh,

absolutely not out, you know, when our plane was taking off from no cover, the government airport in moscow the fsb convoy, a man who was sitting next to me, we all had a personal fsb guard i embellish clubs, legal develop clubs in a plane and got a little more relaxed. >> and as our plane was taken off, he turned to me and said, look out the window, this is last time you seeing a motherland and i just laughed in his guys face and i said, look, miami historian vacation, i don't only think i don't only believe i know that russia will change that. i will be back in my homeland. and as i told him, it's going to be much quicker than you ever thing thank you both so very much. >> thank you. coming on and sharing. i said beginning of very, very beginning of a long journey. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> next j.d. vance, is he stealing from the bill clinton playbook the, two men who wrote that playbook, james carville and paul begala respond, plus american gymnast jordan chiles, just suffering a setback in the

attempt to hold onto her bronze that'll us gymnastics team responding tonight tv on the edge, moments that shaped our culture, coming this fall on cnn doug, and if we, when we get to tell you how liberty mutual customizes car insurance. so you only pay for what you need isn't that what you just did stand know? you gotta if you want to win not only pay for what you need labor day every day what's considered normal for your cat is interesting it's curious

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and so much more since then. but that very applicable to this moment. so james yoo earlier today told us that you would not be surprised if trump dumped vance as his running mate? do you really think that's possible well, first of all, this is not james, its ai generated version of me, but possible may take sitting there getting clobbered in vance's going nowhere. >> but i i guess you got ballot right here, but printing problems and a lot of the complicated things, but he's inching his, he's kind of attack and vance, i think he's going to go out and attack him fool all throughout it. that's my own paul, what what do you think that really happen i do think that when i thought for a while that donald trump is not very good at long relationships ferran, three political parties, four white house chiefs of staff three or four attorneys general. this is his second vice president, a second running mate. so i wouldn't

count on sticking around if i was j.d vance. i don't think he's he certainly is underwater and harry enten's polling is right that he's the most unpopular vice president the problem with this act though, is it's the organ grinder, not the month people just don't want donald trump and they really want kamala harris and tim walz so james right. >> to this point, there was a song we heard a lot of during the 1990s would you campaign that you all worked on together to remind those who do not remember that live way it and the whole point there was to focus that this ticket was about the future and what's coming ahead and that it's bright and it's not about the past 32 years later we hear the same song used for a candidate in this race that candidate is

jd vance. here it is so what do you think james instrumental version clear what they were doing was that a purposeful recollection of take 1992 and spent it forward or just random circumstance was godfather. >> that's all i played a lot right before i go to bed. of course, they play out song, didn't seem bound and called his podcast the war room. can these people think or anything new? i mean mark garden clinton, 92 campaign and was, you know, i don't know, 30, 32 years ago but, you know, vance called trump hitler, so maybe that campaigns are horst wessel. so i don't know it's my dear to my suggestion is there any chance that it works and they're trying to brand him in that positive outlook in

the context of this race well, so far it hasn't. >> i mean, he's just not relatable. people don't like him and that's just not me. that's the polling data. and i think it doesn't help. this is, here's some free advice for jd when you tell people you hate them, they don't like it and they tend not to vote for you when you tell women how many babies they should have, or you tell the people who don't have children, women that don't have shelter, cat lady thing of course, is now infamous and really, really dumb i mean, again, i was trained by bill clinton now horn, they got kind of thought you should say nice things about voters and maybe they would like you. jd has got a very different strategy. he seems to really like punching down, you know, he's a wealthy man and god bless me, came a long way in life and i give a lot of credit for that. they went to yale and he made millions and silicon valley and he's punching down. i don't think that's a good look james, how do you see it happening though?

>> trump jettisoning him? how does that play out as this event? as you see it just trump actually actively dump him or does jd somehow bow out well, you know, i don't know you know, it's like do you get the guide? >> are to sign out to take suicide and to sell do or the slit his throat. i have no idea but the way the trump operation he might get up one morning and say get rid of this guy and the rnc, i'm assuming they'd have to pull him by phone or computer or something like that. of course, they don't have they don't have thought other than trump's so there's a lot of technical things. paul-paul no, just little bit and i do but he jumped down like to just sit down and get kid in our associated name right now and he's doing everything he can to elon musk the press conference he had i don't know, but he's not he is not a comfortable man, right now and he's trying to think of something i promise you said

not a comfortable man final word to you, paul? >> what a different racist would be. first off, the problem is the top of the ticket. okay. but the republicans have chosen their nominee. i respect that. >> what a different race it would be if trump had chosen nikki haley chris christie, brian kemp glenn youngkin, even mitt romney people who can get votes that trump doesn't now have. >> there could be a completely different race that's what kamala harris good. okay. she's from the west coast from california. she chose a midwesterner who is a soldier and a teacher and a foot paul coach and a hunter. she's none of those things and so it's really been a terrific team on the democratic side and not much traction i think on the republican side i'm just going to hope that all those alerts are people saying, oh, my gosh, and watching you and you're just gd amazing and i want to see this again, redox. thank you both that's a bs indicator judge, has nonsensical okay. thank you, guys thank you all

right. next what a ruling tonight means for jordan chiles and her olympic bronze medal cnn is live from chicago as democrats unite to offer their support to a new nominee and her running mate fellow cnn for complete coverage that democratic national convention next monday at seven on cnn and streaming on max this fall comedy is coming to cnn what could go wrong i got news for you for me or saturday, september 14 at nine on cnn i wish my tv provider, let me choose what i pay for. sling. let you do that where are you going i wish mike levy, provider, let me choose what i paid and let me pause my subscription when i was saying led to do that i wish mike tv provider, let me choose what i paid for and let me pause my subscription when i want one can't have hundreds of free

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