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today hello everyone, and welcome to the amanpour hour but here's where we're headed this week. israel has a right to defend itself and how it does so matters. >> will kamala harris be able to chart her own path on the world stage, u.s ambassador and democrat bigwig rahm manu, ways in what would a second trump worldview look like? his former pentagon policy maker on america first 2.0 we're heading towards the iceberg and i think if we continue on the current trajectory, we're going to ram right into it. i think the trump-vance agenda offers us a very good way of avoiding world war three in a way that protects our interests also, this hour, this book is my testimony to the trial that never took place on an adn on accusing wikileaks, julian assange of sexual assault, and

surviving as the most hated woman on the internet then changing the rules of philanthropy at the ford foundation and why darren walker thinks that time is right to step down, kid in a small town finding them felt as president of the ford foundation could only happen in america plus three years after the taliban's return. flashback to kabul and my reporting on afghan women being erased from public life welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london, a re-energized democratic party kicks off its convention in chicago on monday vice president kamala harris ended this week by bailing her economic vision for the country after appearing with president biden for the first time since he stepped aside, the president's plan, dnc speech won't be just an endorsement of harris, but rather a passing of the torch. and this matters here overseas as whoever wins in november inherits a

checklist of daunting geopolitical dilemmas turmoil in the middle east, the war in ukraine, and the growing threat from the anti-u.s. axis of china, russia, iran, and north korea. would harris take her lead from biden or chart a new path for america on the world stage known for his tough stance on china, rahm emanuel is a career democrats politician and for the past several years, a diplomat as the u.s. ambassador to japan, he was white house chief of staff under president obama, and he is the former mayor of chicago. i asked him to weigh in on the successes and failures of president biden's foreign policy and what the world could expect of a kamala harris presidency. ambassador emanuel, welcome from tokyo what do you think? let's just play out game plan. the election and who might win with a kamala harris as president, continue the exact same policies. let's just say in the in the indo-pacific region

i do believe that kamala harris, vice president harris, will build you don't just continue you build off of it. now i'll give you one anecdote. she was here for former prime minister abe's funeral and she had a private meeting with prime minister kishida. those were the early days when we were beginning to scratch out this lattice work architecture there hadn't been yet a texture there hadn't been yet a trilateral with korea. there hadn't yet been even the concept of the trilateral the philippines. so she has put what i would call sweat equity into something, there right now, the standing the test of time, just two weeks ago, canada, the united states, australia, the philippines, did a naval exercise in the islands that is coalition building. china isolated philippines, ending with allies, canada, australia, and the united states. and she was an early, literally shaper of that clay shaper of the strategy and came in and traveled here many times

and put the miles you've got to keep investing in it and strengthening it. and i think she'll do that. >> this dynamic of anti-democratic forces, of against the rule of law is playing out in europe. now, while that might be out of your area, i want to know what you think the biden achievement as the biden administration has achieved, nato is bigger they've attracted more into nato, which is against what putin thought and now ukraine is moving into trying to change the dynamic on the ground. why do you think a kamala harris, president, if it happens, would stand in bolstering ukraine's ability to defend itself. and where should it be? >> let me do two things here. you called nato bigger, which it is, because you add sweden and finland. but i would also call it revitalized. i think the united states through democratic, republican administrations were telling nato cubase countries the consequences of what russia was doing russia finally improved,

but we've been saying for decades, true? i do think that the threat to ukraine, if something were to happen to ukraine president putin would not stop he would not stop in georgia. he would not stop at moldova. he would not stop ukraine's sovereignty ukraine's independence ukraine's desire to be as a people repeatedly have gone to the streets to be part of the west. their aspirations to be part of something the economic opportunity the freedom that the, that the west offers as a political principle is something that people have sacrificed not only on the military battles, but also on the political battles. they see a future that's more promising to the west. they've also seen when polling joined the west how much economic prosperity has happened to pull it as opposed to what's happened to ukraine, they want to be a part of that, and that's worth defending. >> we have defended that repeatedly in our history. >> it'd be walking away from our own history, not to stand

by a country that's willing to fight for freedom and be part of the house of freedom into the middle east. >> now, president biden has the historic american and personal relationship with israel that his generation has. and you see the majority of american people and where they are in the pressures they're putting on the democratic party right now kamala harris is a slightly different generation. i'm just wondering what you think should be a policy shift or not towards trying to resolve this unresolved decades-long situation in the middle east between israel and the palestinians well, i think let me say so let somebody that goes back on this to president clinton working both on mainly oslo was kinda independent, but the why plantation in the camp david efforts towards the end of the president's tenure and then worked on this with

president obama there are three tracks and the reason the united states is for a negotiated agreement. you look at the history of israel. there's three tracks as it relates. israel has tried at negotiated track you've seen that with egypt. you've seen it with jordan, you've seen it with the abraham accords, the negotiated track has delivered both security as well as an acceptance for israel into the rider region. and those a peace agreements with those three egypt in the seventh late 70s jordan in early 90s under president clinton the abraham accords under president trump have delivered security, delivered economic opportunity, and deliver a regional acceptance the other option israels tried is unilateral, both in lebanon and in gaza. and that's led to hamas and hezbollah. the other option, the third option, which is divorce, which they've tried with the west bank there's only one option that's delivered security and opportunity and

have regional acceptance. and that's negotiated what i find now, which is most promising and i don't think i'm i'm not an optimist. usually i'm kind of cold kind of pragmatist about this is that there are many forces now for stability and for regional security that didn't exist. gulf countries and neighbors to israel in the arab israeli border they want stability because it's important for their own economic development instability, mainly driven by iran and their surrogates is the force here but israel for the first time has partners and allies who are seeking quiet. they're seeking stability, seeking kind of overall strategic alignment. so economic growth and political growth can happen that's a big difference. and one that i think accrues to israels

historic interests is not only economic growth of political, acceptance in the region. >> ambassador rahm emanuel, thank you for joining us. >> when we come back, former trump pentagon official, elbridge colby defends his former boss is foreign policy record. >> i ask him what another four years of trump would it looked like for the rest of the world also ahead, julian assange has accuser and our on becoming the most hated woman on the internet naming and shaming julian goes hand in hand with naming and shaming need. >> the frenzy is directed at both of us cnn is live from chicago as democrats unite to offer their support to a new nominee and her running mate fellow cnn and for complete coverage, the democratic national convention monday at seven on cnn. >> and streaming on max itch scratch must not stop the if sanity with cortisone ten for

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one low fixed rates far-left than 100 keg, no fees required so far i get your money, right i'm stephanie elam in los angeles and this is cnn welcome back to the program. >> and we're putting foreign policy views from democrats and republicans under the microscope this week before the craig, i spoke with a biden surrogate and ambassador to japan, rahm emanuel on the u.s. foreign policy scorecard during his presidency and what it might look like under vice president kamala harris for the trump america first pov i speak with his former pentagon policy maker, elbridge colby. mr. kirby, welcome to the program great to be with you. let's start by asking you what gives you confidence or what do you expect to see in a trump 2.0

foreign policy? you know, that for instance, in asia, in europe, their so-called trump proofing themselves to see how it might work we know that despite his overtures to those korea, which i covered, it didn't actually go anywhere in the end. maximum pressure on iran didn't work in the way that trump wanted it to work. and now iran is much closer to breakout possibility than it was before. what gives you the confidence in american? global leadership under donald trump 2.0 well, thanks, christiane, good to, good to be with you and just to stress that i don't speak for president trump or his campaign, but i think i look at two things in particular. >> one is the record of results you pointed to a few things, but if you compare president trump's record from 2017 and 2021 the last four years, i think any sensible person would say things were a lot better under the trump administration, you've had the largest war in europe since the second world war. it's not going well.

you've had the largest attack on the jewish people since the holocaust. you've had the houthis attack and you mentioned north korea, the biden ministration. the situation has gotten a lot worse and the military buildup from china has also gotten worse. what you called trump proofing. i call allies kind of getting the memo. i mean, what i see from the biden-harris administration is a wild disconnect between rhetoric and reality. i mean, endless highfalutin discussion of the rules-based international order and no limits to americans commitments. and then defense budget that isn't even rising. and on a trajectory to potentially multi-front war than york times was just reporting china and russia's military cooperation is deepening of real haines has said we have to be worried about russia helping china in the event of a taiwan conflict and the biden administration itself has said, xi jinping has ordered the pla to be ready for an attack on taiwan by 2027 and a larger war with the united states. so we're heading towards the iceberg and i think if we continue on the current trajectory, we're going to ram right into it. i think the trump-vance agenda offers us a very good way of avoiding world war three in a way that protects our interests. >> president trump has said to

bloomberg that taiwan would have to basically pay for american protection. he said, consider us like an insurance policy or an insurance goods company. and you know, he's very transactional over nato and the ligand it kind of it, as you can imagine, it gives, it gives allies sort of the heebie-jeebies. it makes them wonder who will come to their, to their rescue. what should allies take from all of this? i mean, should taiwan befores to pay for american protection? >> well, look, i mean, fundamentally, let me go back to something which is that our military perimeter around the world, all the same people who are talking about how dangerous china, russia, iran, north korea are are also in a sense, allowing an incredibly dangerous situation to perpetuate, which is under underspending been our allies. let's baseline something here. christiane, neither presidential campaign he's runnincrse in defense spending right? by the united states. and we know our defense industrial base should be fixed and that's a key part of the republican platform, but it's not, it has not been fixed. so there's a

wild gap between what were promising and to your point about the heebie-jeebies, they should be more than heebie-jeebies. they should be very scared. now, part of that is the united states focusing more and being more serious and aligning our rhetoric or reality more. but a huge part is our allies doing a lot more, which by the way, they used to do. i always make this point. what we need to get over is not the cold war legacy of america in the cold war, we were quite tough on our allies and we expected them to do their part it's the post-cold war hubris after the collapse of the soviet union taiwan is a perfect example. taiwan as a country, president trump has absolute right. it's right next to china. it's a country of 1.4 billion people that's an historic military buildup where the president of that country, and it seems a lot of the population are pretty focused on forcibly unifying taiwan if necessary. and taiwan spending less than 3% of gdp he on defense. so those who are allowing that situation to perpetuate are actually doing more harm. and so again, going back to trump proofing, if countries are taking the memo and saying like what president

trump said in his truth, social posts around the time of the supplemental, europe needs to step up. you don't want the thing is christiane. europeans are getting the memo. >> i want to ask you them because you do make a distinction between prioritizing the china policy over the ukraine policy. and you have said, frankly that if taiwan does fall, it would send a very bad signal about american global leadership what if ukraine falls to russia? would that send the same bad signal? >> well, a couple of things. let's step back for a second. one. china is clearly our biggest rival in the nature of our priority is you gotta, and it's all relative were doing better than we were 510 years ago. but china's really, china's got 200 times the shipbuilding capacity. united states, they're actively working to improve their military forces for something it could be in the coming here's god forbid. so that's, that's got to be our primary rival. second europe asia is now the world's primary theater. it's the primary market area. it's going to be upwards of 50% of global gdp. europe remains important, but it's less important and the

european economies, germany alone is a larger economy than russia, whereas in asia there, they're outweighed but that's that's the situation russia, i think there's a lot of sort of extreme dialogue or discussion on one side of the other, either that russia is 1945, joseph stalin or it's a joke. i think the russians are a serious threat. i don't think it would be in our interest for ukraine to be totally occupied by the russians are making incremental progress in eastern ukraine crane my solution to this, getting back to what we were just saying is really letting your europeans get know and get the memo that you got to take the lead in supporting ukraine. i'm in favor of supporting ukraine. it's just got to be done by them. we have to fix our situation, which is much more consequential and dangerous in the western pacific and we have to recognize the reality of scarcity. and that's what i don't see at all in fact, if i look at vice president harris, i said to myself, it's a completely absent from the dialogue, whereas i think president trump is saying, we may be on the verge of world

war iii. i think god forbid, that's correct. the right way to handle that is strength, yes. but also realism about our situation, and using our military sparingly as the platform system, eldridge colby. >> thank you very much, indeed, thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> and up next, julian assange's accuser and an adn on being seduced at first by the wikileaks mission there's fall comedy, u.s commerce to cnn what could, go wrong i got news for you for me or saturday, september 14 at nine on cnn there's probably about 400 people in the elementary school ways and get everybody into the safe hallways. >> all of a sudden, the air goes there's no way. everybody's going to be okay

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welcome back to the program. a swedish woman who accused wikileaks founder julian assange, of sexual assault says that she forgives him, and then she's pleased he's now a free man. but in her new book, no heroes know monsters. and an odd in route wiiles, the torment she suffered and how she was forced to flee her homeland after reporting assange to police in 2010, you remember that assange pled guilty to espionage charges in june. finally, bring his 12 year battle against extradition to the united states to an end. throughout his self-exile and imprisonment, his case was also shrouded in acrimony and accusations by two swedish women. so i asked antarctica in about her memoir, how her relationship with assange dramatically changed her life, and how the scales finally fell from her eyes i mean, this book is my testimony to the trial that never took place and it

took ten years to know that there was not going to be in trial for my case and then it took me some while to get it translated into english and end to find the energy to take all this again because it wasn't really there is no money in it. >> there is no there is not much. >> you don't gain a lot personally from doing this. but i felt it was really important to pass on what i learned like i said, being the most hated woman on the internet that was just for a few days. >> but every day there's a new woman being the most hated and many times it has to do with sexual abuse and sexual violence and i want to give that to other people who have been abused on a tell me in a nutshell what you accused julian assange off. >> i accused him of abuse and not rape, but that he was in

short inseminating me without my consent, and that i don't know his motives, but i was guessing that he wanted to get me pregnant and i do want that. so that was i wanted to get him tested for hiv or for other sexually transmitted diseases because i thought i might have been affected. and that's why i went to the police so that was my accusation against him for people who don't understand what you mean by inseminating how, what were the physical aspects of that? >> he broke the condom without me noticing it when it happened and i mean it was i write about that in depth in its since several pages. exactly what happened because he was not entirely voluntary that the situation was kind of violent as well as the ripped condom

that i didn't really have the chance to check. >> i heard this sound as if the condom have broke, but i he was holding my hands like this and i couldn't really check what had happened it was a very uncomfortable situation and it took me it took me a long time to understand that this was an abuse and that it probably wasn't legal. of course, as you know, he denies everything. the statute of limitations has run out. the case was dropped. you write no monsters, no heroes and you're saying something that is reflected in the way you have complicated emotions about him and about what i assume was a consensual relationship despite this aspect of it. why do you think you will under such under under his spell, so to speak, did you want to be part of the cool crowd you had worked at wikileaks what was it about him

that made you want to be in his domain, so to speak. >> there were a lot of reasons, of course, but mainly i was working with this organization who was criticizing the wars in iraq and afghanistan and we were we were opposing the united states and we were opposing war and we were posting the the logics of war and we were crowd and we were gaining momentum. >> and it was a fantastic feeling that we were have we were onto something being able to leak the secrets and my conviction was that if we display the atrocities of war, we will be able to put an end to them. >> do you still support what we he leaks did and do you think in retrospect you may have been naive about him and his work. >> i've been in touch with a lot of the activists that were engaged in wikileaks and much more people than me have been subject to different kinds of

abuse. i mean, people were shut out of the organization there were no democratic structures. i mean, it was pretty much a one man show and i have one example in my book an activist who was organizing and he was trying to protect them the people who appeared in the documents that you can leak details on private persons, for example people being homosexuals in saudi arabia could be a real threat to them if that, if those documents leaked and julian push these people to publish these documents and they said, we cannot we cannot publish this because it will put people in danger and julien was yelling that you have to listen to me because i am a god he actually said that he said that he said that according to this activist in one of the big organizations

in sweden, how will you move on with your life now that you've written this, i mean, this book was very much for me, like a way of closing this story, like giving my testimony and it feels important and i have my family and i have my life, i have my friends, and things are things are working out pretty good right now in my life an incredible story and coming up next on the program, darren walker, the man with the multi-billion-dollar plan to fight inequality and the legacy, he's leaving behind maybe on the edge, moments that shaped our culture coming this fall on cnn. can you do this as early as your 40s? you may lose muscle and strength, protein supports muscle health in shear max protein has a 30 grand

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select adjustable mattress sets, an experience the deep undisturbed breast of tempur-pedic. learn more at tempur-pedic dot com, the democratic national convention monday at seven on cnn, and streaming on max welcome back to the program. he is one of time magazine's most influential people rolling stone named him in its top 25 people shaping the future list. and former president barak obama says, he's an inspiration. darren walker has been president so the ford foundation says 2013 overseeing billions of dollars in life changing grants. now the search is on for his replacement after he announced that he would step down at the end of next year. i asked him about his legacy and the transformative philanthropy that he's helped steer darren walker, you change the dna of philanthropic giving by moving away from just giving, just,

you know, paying back and attaching the the mission to justice and fight. not generosity but justice as well. how do you come up with that idea that idea came up because i was reading a rather obscure speech by dr. martin luther king that he gave just a few months before he was assassinated in 1968. >> and he spoke to a group of philanthropists said the. following philanthropy is commendable but it should not allow the philanthropist to overlook the economic injustice which makes philanthropy necessary. and so what dr. king was saying was something different than rockefeller or carnegie mellon or ford? ed, what he was saying was it's not just about generosity charity, giving back. he was saying that it was about human dignity, justice, and that those of us who are privileged might indeed

ultimately have to give something up in order so, that our fellow citizens could live with greater shared prosperity and darin, you've given away, i believe under your tenure, some $7 billion in these kinds of game changing missions to as you say, do, do what you've just been saying, bring justice and inequality higher up, but you've also invested in diversifying the for example, you help fund the met opera, his first production by a black composer terence blanchard, and the thing was called fire shut up in my bones, i interviewed him about it, but why is that on the agenda of a foundation like yours? >> what does that do? >> to fulfill your mission because the arts is a place where inequality in our society has been reflected of the metropolitan opera, like most arts organizations, had no history of presenting arts reflecting the broad swath of

american society. indeed the metropolitan opera had accepted a commission in the early 1900s, only to reject it when they learned that the lyricist was a black man because they said american audiences would not accept the idea of a black person creating opera this was high art. when we look in the visual arts, the numbers of great american artists who have simply been erased, who were ignored because gatekeepers deemed their work not worthy of fine art of these are ways in which hierarchy, hierarchical systems more broadly in society manifest in the arts and the arts are important christiane, because they tell us who we are they are the soundtrack for who we are as a people. and unfortunately for far too long in american history, that soundtrack has not been full. it is not reflected the rich

diversity of our culture, of our society you reflect our, the mission. >> frankly, you grew up in louisiana and parts of texas. you first preschool recruited for the first preschool in the famous head headstart movement back in the 60s, i think it was publicly funded state but, et cetera. and in previous interviews, you have said, quote, there is no doubt that henry ford would be surprised that a black gay man was president of his foundation. so what does all this meant to you? and the fact that you've been leading this for the last, it'll be 12 years by the time you stepped down my own story of a poor kid in a small town finding themselves as president of the ford foundation could only happen in america and so today, we've got to ensure that more people who looked like i did some 60 years ago when that woman approached them a little shocked on shaq, we

lived on a dirt road in rural texas and told my mother about headstart that opportunity be idea of investing and believing and the human potential of poor black and brown rural white people who feel left out and left behind working class america who feel marginalized and an economic system and a social system that has pushed them aside, that those opportunities can be real. we need to believe in hope and in the future and america, that's what we do with the ford foundation. >> we're in the business of hope and it's been and an enormous joy and honor to serve this institution and darren walker, thank you very much indeed for being with us. thank you hope the fundamental building block of life up next on this program, three years of repressive taliban rule, since the u.s. >> pulled out of afghanistan from my archive, the time i met

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quality standards while efficiently managing cost, contributing to the success and growth of our business. i had to montgomery in tokyo, and this is cnn welcome back it's been three years since the taliban's brutal return to power in afghanistan. and three more years of what's become the world's most serious women's rights crisis since the u.s.

pulled out august 2021, girls have again been banned from schools beyond sixth grade and barred from universities. they can't play sports or even visit parks. their movements are restricted and job opportunities are limited. there are no more women in politics or positions of influence u.n. women says, the most striking trend since the taliban regained control is the attempt to erase these women from public life, which i witnessed firsthand when i was in kabul shortly after the takeover, reporting on the devastating impact of the taliban's rule on women's lives for the past five months, hotter are muddy, has been anchoring the morning news on tolo tv, but this might be the last time lumber from the morning editorial meeting starts with worried discussion about mandatory masking station director paul works of pi says he'd even consider just shutting down and leaving. but then he thought female staff

who want to come to carry on anchoring with a mask can. while those who don't will get other jobs behind the scenes we believe the last decision to them that will make their own decision. >> and it's a tough decision for these women who braved the new taliban regime to stay on the air, who've already adjusted their headscarves to hide their hair and do now fear a steep slide back to the middle ages hotter a says she's so stressed, she couldn't even present her program properly malonas, it's not clear. >> even if we appear with the burqa, maybe they will say that women's voices are forbidden they want women to be removed from the screen. they are afraid of an educated women, while not as dana bas out meters across town, the taliban government spokesman zebulon mojo head, was attending a meeting with local journalists to mark slightly delayed world press freedom day. we stopped him on the way in you have said they have to wear a face mask

if they're on television women. why? >> yes it's advisory. that those yes, it's advisory from the ministry. he says was one of those years but what does that mean? >> is it compulsory? sorry i'm on cooper if it is said they should wear it, it'll be implemented as it is in our religion 2m says more jarhead, it is good if it's implemented afghan women are afraid that this is the beginning of your efforts to erase them from the workspace. >> they're afraid that if they wear the mask, the next thing you will say is their voice cannot be heard public politically. what is your response to that? >> very cool. an ap and i was like during covid, he says mask were mandatory. >> women would only be wearing hijab or masks and they then continue their work he seems to say that if women where this, they can go to work, but the dress code edx, like saying female university students must now where black, not colored

headscarves is an escalating war of nerves and everyone fears where this will lead back at tolonews, these female anchors or distraught. >> she couldn't what should we do? >> cries tom mena, we don't know. we were ready to fight to the last to perform our work, but they don't allow us my name addition, we women have been taken hostage, says hila, women can't get themselves educated or work like me, who's worked on screen for years and couldn't leave afghanistan due to the fear of the taliban. i can't go on screen again. >> they got that screen burrow. >> since the taliban takeover, the station's employed even more women than before because they need a safe space. he's and as for the actual journalism, tolo news is afghanistan's leading independent news channel. but director supplies says, they'll all quit the day the taliban pressures them to tailor their coverage or lie to a public

that's come to trust the truth. they've been delivering over 20 years he saved the stations so far, recruiting a whole new staff after most employees fled the taliban's arrival from management level, i stood alone and i was constructed. >> i was only thinking that how to keep the screen alive, not to go dark the challenge now is keeping it from going dark in a remarkable show of bravery in commitment. these women are still on television, but still banned from showing their faces, only their eyes can be seen. the taliban's also cracked down by arresting journalists, tightening restrictions on social media, forcing many give them to flee the country, coming up. in latin america are bold victory for democracy sparks a vicious crackdown by an authoritarian leader heat are trying to cling on to power. i speak to the

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venezuela, the opposition says it has scored a surprise victory in last month's election. >> it's a story of huge significance for the united states as well because of how it could reverse migration. but the strongman leader, nicolas maduro is trying to stay in power with a door to door manhunt to root out activists, journalists, and dissidents operation knock-knock as it's known, has rounded up thousands and claimed more than 20 lives, but still the resistance isn't backing down and that's what's important. this saturday, they calling for mass demonstration of international solidarity. and maria corina machado, who was barred from running for the presidency, remains leader of the moment, and she spoke to me from a secret location in venezuela for safety reasons. >> so i think international community has to increase that pressure has to increase the cost of repression christiane, because what it's going right now, it's horror, is, it is

carter was nina's young people are out of their houses. houses are marked with a cross at their doors journalists have been detained. >> four of them have been accused of terrorism. >> is is happening as we speak but we're not going to stop and we need international community not only helping us, given incentives for the region to go with making him understand that it's going to be costlier and costlier as every day goes by to stay in power surrounded by the military and exercise violence on innocent people and that's all we have time for, but don't forget, you can find that whole interview and all of our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com slash podcast, and on all other major platforms. >> i'm christiana amanpour in london. thank you for watching and i'll see you again next week.