was the first creative, first black creative director of polo, ralph lauren. >> and he, when he created the spelman morehouse collection, and i'm a former their model myself, for ralph lauren, so yeah, so i'm happy to see that a black man is getting his due. >> yeah. yeah. that's that is a good a really good one. they had a great show apparently, we were hearing about the vice the first lady was there here in new york just a couple of days ago. everyone. thank you very much. thank you for watching newsnight state of the race. it's a good friday to watch laura coates live starts right now we begin with

its high-stakes journey back to earth. final go-ahead. so if all goes well, we'll see it land back on solid ground in new mexico within the very hour. i'll be your pilot for live coverage here. cnn has it all happens before us. now remember, the capsule is coming back empty, uncrewed and nasa speak. and yes, remembering it correctly, this is the same capsule that wasn't supposed to be uncrewed. it was supposed to have two astronauts coming back home in it, sonny williams and butch wilmore. and they are staying put on the international space station, as you know, in fact, there'll be there until february. nasa made the decision to keep him there for their safety after lingering issues popped up with the capsule, nasa simply couldn't risk a disaster remember, the astronauts got to space on starliner back in june and was supposed to be quick,

eight days or so. but now it's going to be more like eight months in space. return, though, is still a high pressure moment for both nasa and boeing with frankly billions of dollars it's on the line as go right to cnn's space and defense correspondent, kristin fisher, who is at johnson space center in houston. kristen, good evening. take us what we're going to do. we're going to see as the starliner returns to earth tonight laura, this is really the moment of truth for boeing starliner. we're now just about 17 minutes away from the moment that nasa was so worried about from the moment that really was at the center of nassir's reason to keep watch and sunny on the space station? not send them home on starliner in the moment that i'm talking about is the de-orbit burn and re-entering the earth's atmosphere the de-orbit burn is going to happen at 11:17 eastern time.

essentially, this is a braking maneuver. you're going to have for big rocket engines fire, slowing the spacecraft down from orbital velocity city at about 17,000 miles per hour. it's going to slow it down by about 300 miles per hour. and then what you're going to see once it slows down enough to drop out of orbit essentially, you're going to see the crew module and the service module separate, two separate things. the service module is where all the problems have been with starliner. that's where the faulty thrusters are. that's where the helium leaks have been. it's going to fall away, burn up in the earth's atmosphere. and that leaves the crew module, which is where butch and sunny would have been had nasa allowed them to come back on starliner and so then at 11:45 p.m. you'll see re-entry of the crew module. this is when the heat shield is really going to be tested as this spacecraft endures temperatures of about 3,000 degrees fahrenheit. we may also

get a communication blackout with starliner as the plasma builds up around the heat shield that could last for about four minutes. then at 11:56 p.m. we should see the parachutes deploy and slowly bringing starliner back down to earth. if all goes according to plan, it should touch down in white sands, new mexico, just a few moments after midnight going from what had been 17,000 miles per hour, laura, to just four miles per hour. and that is really going to be the big test that moment. if starliner survives this really critical period, then boeing can look at nasa and say see, we told you so because boeing has believed that spacecraft was safe enough for butch and sunny. but if by some chance, heaven forbid something does go wrong here, that nasa of course will know that it did make the right decision. but even then, laura, i should just caution by saying, you know, nasa says

without a doubt, there is more risk here than they would like. more uncertainty surrounding this spacecraft. and so when you're dealing with nasa astronauts, nasa just says, hey, there was uncertainty, there was risk. why risk it when we have another spacecraft, spacex's crew dragon, that's tried and true very tested at this point, we could put, put butch and sunny on even if it's many, many months away, laura, i mean, a poster child for erring on the side of caution to see what works, the precision of all of this as you describe it, is so fast and i'm going to watch and see what happens here. kristin fisher stand by for us. we're going to check back in with you in a few minutes. when may get ready to start moving towards that re-entry phase that you just described? >> well, in political news tonight, new york judge, juan merchan, postponing donald trump's sentencing for his hush money criminal conviction. >> minds you it's been rescheduled not once, but twice. in fact, this time,

trump and frankly, the rest of us are going to have to wait until after the november election to know what that sentence it may be. judge merchan seemed eager to avoid any partisan backlash in the final stretch of this unprecedented presidential campaign and stressing in his decision saying, quote, the public's confidence in the integrity of our judicial system demands a sentencing hearing that is entirely focused on the verdict the jury, and the wearing of aggravating and mitigating factors free from distraction or distortion want to bring in former u.s. attorney and deputy assistant attorney general, harry litman and former miami-dade county court judge, jeff swartz. so glad to have both of you on tonight. >> but judge but begin with, you judges normally concerned with what they call hints of impropriety, a conflict of interest. they might know somebody, a litigant or otherwise. now, it seems that you've got to worry about perceptions of political bias

should they be thinking about this? do you agree with his decision to factor that in? >> i don't agree with the decision to be very honest with you a judge is only has one constituency and that's the law he does not represent people. it doesn't have a part. they don't have parties. >> there. >> there to enforce the law and the rules against everybody. the same and my feeling is that his position should have been the delays in this sentencing the delays in this case are by u.s. sir they haven't been by the government. they haven't been by the state and you put yourself in this position and now you're going to have to listen to the sentence. and if there are consequences, there are consequences that you created. i've been in that position before where i had to make a decision against in this particular case, a very powerful insurance company, you

didn't like what i was doing, but i followed the law in the end, it cost me my seat on the bench, but i left the bench with my head held high and i didn't really care that much because i was that proud of what i he had done. and i got treated by my colleagues completely differently than i really anticipated. i would be in a good way well, i find that i can say what they know, right. have no sympathy for him. and i think that he should call trump out, not because he's trump, but because he can't let anybody but he tell him how to run his courtroom because there's politics involved that's my feeling. i mean, harry, just thinking about what the judge has described in the analogy that he brought up. i mean, look at this split screen, you've got judge chutkan in the january 6 case saying to the core, i think it was just yesterday that the court quote is not concerned with the electoral schedule, unquote. can you reconcile why these are

obviously different judges, different jurisdictions, different cases? all that is quite apparent but can you reconcile the way of thinking for him or sean versus say chutkan here? >> well, look, chutkan as she's done the entire time said no, i'm not thinking about the election merchan had the same stance through the trial in the judge actually sat close to one another during it. and this came as something of a surprise. and you could almost feel mertens kind of loneliness and going back and forth one thing that he pointed out that really hit home to me and maybe to you, laura, as a former prosecutor, is that the da did not make any recommendations almost in a winking way, said yes, go ahead and postpone it. it was a lonely decision on his part, of course, as the judge says, these things can be lonely, but it obviously got to him. and in a sense, it was both the safe route. but to my

mind also a little bit surprising. i thought the north star that he has set his sights by throughout the trial. as same with judge chutkan is just just do it normally as you would for any defendant, let the chips fall where they may ignore the election what do you mean in a kind of a winking way obviously, the idea of a prosecutor not opposing a delay anytime the prosecution and the defense are on the same page about a scheduling issue, it does make it harder for a judge to go rogan away from that, judge swartz, but i do wonder about that impact that harry speaking about had the prosecution been pushing for an immediate sentencing and not suggesting that delay may be appropriate for whatever reason do you think that that may enforce the hand of judge short of judge merchan it should have actually worked in the opposite. i think the fact that the prosecution stayed out of it did not they did not want to

be accused of creating a political issue for judge merchan have to deal with or be he used of using politics in this particular case. they left it up to him. they gave him the ghaidan faith. they believed in him, in everything he had said during the course of the trial. and basically said we trust you with this decision. and i think to a certain extent, judge merchan let them down he has to be above the politics that's the way i look at it. >> i'm just going to say, excuse me, your honor, the idea that i often time in trial and harry, of course, you can read this. the trial in the case belongs the problem that's occasion until there is a conviction, then it's in the hands of the jury and then sentencing. the case belongs to the judge at that point, right. to decide all these factors. and so the waning influence as that goes down. but let me just pull up on the screen for you guys. i think that the actual timeline of this case is

particularly fascinating where we are because it was moved not just once, but now twice when you've got in there, of course, the supreme court immunity ruling being a part of this as well. and just look at the original date would have been july 11. you look at july 13. that was the day of the attempted assassination of donald trump, followed by the rnc, that following monday, just looking at about this calendar all the way november, i think gives really interesting context for the people of the united states to see how this has been conducted so far but we're still waiting on the big answer, harry, right. do you i mean, do you think that there is a chance for a sentence that would include jail? and how would it be carried out especially? given the complications of a secretory of protection? and of course, an election looming in november right. >> and as to that, let's just start with if trump is elected, even though he is, he can't pardon himself. i think the courts, the supreme court, if

no other court would find a principal, you can not put the sitting president of the united states in the pogey they can't meet with putin there, et cetera. but if he's not, i do think he in hot water and it does in some ways released this burden that was obviously heavy on merit can shoulders and this is the kind of it's a judgment call. many these convictions don't result in jail time, but trump's conduct, remember he violated the gag order. there are over ten times. he was generally obstreperous. defendant. my best guess it's you know, it's up to maritime. i met my best guess is he will see a short incarcitory sentence for a couple of months months anyway, and then parole, you know, this as well as is does the judge that's that's no picnic either to be under the jurisdiction of the court for a period of years. >> judge lakewood, we have a very limited yes. what do you think the sentence would be if i could jump in on one thing? >> it very simply as this is

that if he were to be sentenced, he's not going to jail right away. the sentence would be over by the time his appeal was over. so he's going to get a supersedeas bond. he's not going into jail right away the difference that the public would see the system working. they would see that he is a convicted felon. they would see he that he is sentenced not because it hurts him, but because the public has to know that the system is going to work against every one if that's what they deserve in this particular case, judge merchan had those options available to him donald trump is not going to go to jail the first day. that is not going to happen okay. >> so i don't think that's a concern for us right now. if he was sentenced right now, he'd be out campaigning the next day, would not make a difference harry? >> judge. thank you both so much really fascinating conversation the politics of this also very fascinating to

talk about that soon, but just ahead we are minutes away from the moment of truth for boeing's starliner as it appears to fire the thrusters for de-orbit will go back to johnson space center and see if houston has a problem. >> plus former vp dick cheney was a long time punching bag for democrats. >> while now he says that he's voting for a democrat. >> her name, kamala harris. >> and tonight she is responding switch to shopify and sell smarter at every stage of your business. take full control of your brand with your own custom store scale faster with tools that let you manage every sale from every channel and sell more with the best converting checkout on the planning a lot more take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify as ryan

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right for you at row dot coast last sparks, a cnn special event abc news presidential debate kennedy at nine on cnn closed captioning is bronchi by jucar help maintain a healthy urinary tract with you, cora, having utis for ten years, you cora, we make uti relief products. we also make proactive urinary tract health product. you it is a lifestyle tried today at you core.com now, if the uncrewed boeing starliner is going to make it back to earth safely right now, is critical starliner's connecting a maneuver called a de-orbit burn, which slows the craft down cnn's kristin fisher is back and she is at johnson space center in houston. >> this is very exciting to think about this happening. how is it going now, kristen so so

far, so good lord, the de-orbit burn has started and all the thrusters are firing as of now. and so when you think about the deorbit burn, think of it as a braking maneuver. the spacecraft pumping on its brakes by firing four big up thruster is called oh max, the order orbital maneuvering and attitude control rockets now, this is critical because it needs to slow the spacecraft down. it's been traveling at 17,000 miles per hour. they've got to slow it down enough so that it can drop out of the orbit. and descend into the earth's atmosphere we do know that there has been a slight issue from the time starliner undocked until now, the thrusters that we're talking about for the de-orbit burn are on the service module, laura, that's a separate part from the crew module of starliner, which is where, butch and sunny would have been when they were testing the thrusters on the crew module, which are needed after the service module and

the crew module separate, which should happen in just about one minute if all goes according to plan, the thrusters, one of the thrusters on the crew module did not fire when they were testing it a little while ago so something to watch for, nasa says that there's enough redundancy, there is enough backup thrusters that it should be okay. but still to have one of the thrusters not firing during that test after other thrusters, we're having so many issues on the service module as it was approaching the space station back in june that's part of the reason why nasa said there's just too much uncertainty. there's just too much risk. we don't want to risk putting butch and sunny on starliner. so really as i've said before, laura, this is the moment of truth for starliner as it prepares to hit these really high temperatures on re-entry, it really is a mecca. >> we imagine what's happening

in their version of a control room as they're trying to figure out, i think we're learning just now that nasa saying that that was a successful d orbiting, but this is, as you mentioned, a concern can you about the testing given that this would have been occupied by two astronauts as well. >> we'll be back, kristin fisher in just a few moments as we get ready to see starliner begin their official re-entry as well. now, back on earth, the former president accepted the endorsement of the fraternal order police today in the battleground state of north carolina and also seized on the sentencing delay big news today is that the manhattan da witch hunt against me has been postponed because everyone realizes that there was no case because i did nothing wrong. >> it's a witch hunt it's not what the judge said. >> and to be clear, trump was found guilty of crimes by a unanimous jury of his peers, 34

counts of falsifying business records. joining me now, former national republican senatorial committee aide, liam donovan, senior political correspondent and then for puck, tara palmeri and democratic strategist, a misha cross. good to see you all here as we are also on the watch for starliner to return. but here on earth, we've got our own set of things that are quite foreign to most judicial systems politically, liam, politically speaking, had the sentencing taken place before election day i wonder what it have helped trump you know, the salience would have been higher. i think a lot of this is kind of baked in. it is faded in terms of the consciousness of what people are thinking about voter wise. but i think you're right. it would have been some rocket fuel raising money as it did back when the first charges we're we're we're prosecuted so i think that sort of attention is something that would have shaken up the race in a way that would have been distraction and i think shaking up the news cycle in a way that

would have an unfavorable for harris, it sounds backwards to say that sentencing would help him, but cast himself as a victim, i think would be a change in the news cycle in a way that would be disruptive at a time when trump needs to disrupt the new cycle. >> and of course, now it's still humming. he can talk about it will not be in the rearview mirror by the election. but again, remember if the american public, this is not a part of the department of justice that is part of obviously federal government. it's judge merchan in the state court proceeding, but you know, me, she i want to go to you because ms surprise twist former vice president dick cheney is revealing that he is voting for kamala harris and he issued a statement saying that trump quote can never be trusted with power. again now, cheney he was once reviled by democrats for his part in the iraq war. in a cia interrogation program among other policies as well. is there a risk in embracing his endorsement for democrats i don't think so because there's endorsement is not one that's going to it's not going

to be one that determines what democrats actually do on election day, what his endorsement could do is showcase for republicans who are republicans? >> what can stall boards? they are the reagan republicans. they are the bush republicans. they are the non maga republicans that they too can join into the fold that doesn't change. they're conservativism. they can remain conservative and still wants to protect our democracy and lead it to function unlike what we saw from donald trump, who, if project 2025 is to be believed and his work to undo the last election just because he lost. i think that there is a lot at stake. what we see here is that dick cheney was willing to put aside his conservativism to say that, hey, there has to be a path forward, that path forward is not going to lie in donald trump. i think that that's more of a callout to republicans to stand on that side than it is anything for democrats. and as we saw at the dnc of all the republicans who spoke, they are trying to help to build out that big tent for this election cycle. they're not saying that everybody who's joining, who may be

conservative is all of a sudden going to change their strike what they are saying is that what is at stake is our democracy. and if you care about that, if you are a true patriot, then you are going to support the harris whilst tick, there is that permission structure that's been developing your ride at least since the dnc, i wonder how the voters will take that and tara, former congressman, congresswoman liz cheney, she had a pretty scathing assessment of trump and senator j.d. vance today, perhaps no surprise for opinion of at least the former. take a listen. >> this is my diplomatic way of saying they're misogynistic pigs i do think people really need to sit down, think through what would it mean to put this depraved human being in the most powerful office in the world. and why that's a risk we can't take tell us how you really feel about it. i mean, she plans to campaign against trump in key battleground states. but i wonder what do you think hurt influence would be among voters today?

>> i think it helps if you're trying to win over those nikki haley voters. this election will likely come down to suburban men, actually, men with college educated degree latte dads and tie dad, anti dobbs, voters who often have daughters men that may have voted for trump in 2016 and then voted for biden in 2020. and these are the men that donald trump is in fact trying to target through grow pods through his messaging. but that kamala harris also needs to win over i think this idea that voting for trump it's a vote against women, which is essentially what liz cheney is arguing. it might have some appeal to these men who maybe are on the fence. this election will be the determiners of who wins so i think it helps with the nikki haley voters that gives permission and i think as many republicans as as kamala harris can win over the better for her i mean, she's an

unknown figure right now. people are still trying to figure out who she is. so she gets some credentials that makes her seem more moderate and maybe balances some of the comments she made in 2019 when she was against fracking for medicare for all and decriminalization of border crossings. it makes her appear more moderate in the swing states that she needs to win fully me. >> do you? see a world where vice president cheney's president george w bush, whatever come forward i'd be surprised. >> i mean, this is personal for the chaney family. i think the former vice president's back. yep. his daughter. she's obviously very passionate about this. i'd be surprised if the former president actually got himself involved. but i think tarabin, an important point, which is it's not enough to be anti-trump. if you think about the voters that decided the last two elections, it was the people that sat out and wash their hands of the choice and 2016 voted for biden in 2020 and harris is fundamental choice. she needs to reassemble that biden coalition. a lot of those people had buyers remorse after they pulled that at

democratic lover. these were the double-haters. i think they have another fresh look at harris and having that permission structure that you mentioned laura is important and these are people they're familiar with. bush or with, with vice president cheney they're not necessarily considering themselves republicans now and over. liz cheney lost the republican primary by 40 points just two years ago but this is important to those. let's call them romney voters, bush-cheney voters, and they're going to be important at the margin in key states. >> you're nodding along on that, on that point, terror, you agree? >> yeah i absolutely agree. i mean, these are the voters that are up for grabs right now. and kamala harris needs to be talking to them if she wants to win this election, particularly in pennsylvania, it's a winner takes all state 19 electoral college votes and that's a state that the trump team is very bullish on and they believe they can win over these men who are on the fence right now. they believe they can win over those men who voted for biden, who maybe republicans. and let's not forget that in 2020, trump won, lost, sorry,

10% of men in georgia, there, those romney republicans are those brian kemp republicans doesn't help trump that he attacks brian kemp, the variable popular governor of georgia. but those are the men were up for grabs right now. and those are the men their targeting and so it calmly can, in any way have a way to speak to them and it through the cheneys or through any other republican figures were willing to come out like adam kinzinger, i think that's a huge boon for her i mean, she lean into it really quick. >> i know very limited time. make sure. but do you do you see this as in any way problematic for some of them are liberal or progressive democrats to have sort of strange bedfellows or will only be additive to the campaign. >> i think we're definitely going to hear from them there is no there's there. they have been very vocal over the years about the cheney legacy. see about the bush legacy. and i think that coming out of that, you're definitely going to hear from them, but i don't think that it is going to be as forceful just because there is a recognition that everything

is at stake. this election cycle, and that when you expand the tent, we know that that also means that they're going to be some people that you may not agree with everything on. that's part of what this that's part of what this campaign has done. the harris-walz campaign is expanding that tent. they are representative of all of america, donald trumps is not and i think that with that being said, there has to be an understanding that there are gonna be some people there that are considered strange bedfellows. but we're all coming together to ensure that our democracy stands really interesting to see how this is going to go down. thank you so much, everyone whereabout 15 minutes or so away from seeing boeing starliner capsule start its re-entry will go as planned. former astronauts are going to join our coverage for the big moment. but first the suspect in the georgia high school shooting along with his own father, are in the court today for the first time. ahead, the mother of a parkland victim is here to respond and explain how the silent alert

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i can and talent the families of victims met georgia high school shooting, looking on as the 14-year-old suspect, colt gray, appeared in court for the very first time. >> his father, colin gray, showing up in the same courtroom less than an hour later a he is facing up to 180 years in prison. the charges against him include four counts of involuntary manslaughter, one for each person his son killed faculty are saying those numbers. they could have been a lot higher if not for the

silent panic button system, the one that alerted police to the har happening inside the school. it was implemented just one week before the shooting. and it's got many people asking why isn't this? same technology everywhere will turns out there is an effort to get it into public schools. all across this country. you know, several states have now passed legislation that is known as alissa's law is named after alyssa. >> i'll high-def she was just 14 when she was killed. >> and the marjorie stoneman douglas high school shooting in parkland, florida. her mother, lori, has been pushing to get the law passed nation wide. laurie joins me now. lori. thank you so much for being here with us and for the advocacy that you have been involved in. thank you. on behalf of mothers, parents, students, humans, everywhere i

want to ask you about the charges against the father in georgia. it's just the second time that a parent has been charged in connection to a mass shooting by a minor. do you think we are seeing a shift in america where repellants are being held responsible as well i do think we are seeing that shift. >> i do think absolutely. parents need to be held responsible if their child gets a gun and goes in and goes instance, shoot up a school. parents need to be accountable for their child and their actions since and their behavior police in georgia are praising the silent alarm to some, as they say that that saved so many lives. >> it's not law there in georgia yet, but you've been pushing for this kind of technology to be implemented all across the nation. could you explain how these alarms actually work? >> sure. so there was a panic button like this used in

medical emergency. the button is pushed three times an active shooter situation it's pushed a times or more and so this was the panic button the teachers were wearing around their neck that was used at apalachee high school and honestly, definitely save lives and we pass the list is law now in seven states. and our goals have paso less as law nationwide as a standard level of school safety protection in every school across this country. >> we're seeing, as you mentioned, seven states, we're looking at a map right now as you are conversing right now. and again, it's named after your beloved daughter, and it is big uncertain in several others. do you think what happened in georgia frankly, is further support that it should be adopted everywhere. and is there a hurdle as to why it's not? so we need to have mass notification in these life-threatening emergency situations. time equals life. and we need to get help on the

scene as quickly as possible once that panic button is pushed, law enforcement can pull up the cameras, get eyes on the scene. it's geofence bay area. so the school resource it's officer can go and take down the threat and save lives and so the thing that it has to go through the legislative process and also there needs to be funding allocated for it. but i believe truly that we can definitely fund this and pass this in every state. hey just like we do in our banks, we have panic binds our schools need to have panics buttons into and have that layer of safety protection. >> i mean, just thinking about the lives it's saved in this instance alone, there was a spokesperson for the company but apalachee high school, u.s. says that it costs $8,000 it's per school per year. now, that would be roughly around $18 million a year to cover all georgia public schools. what do you say to people who may have

concerns about the cost involved? so there's other ways to roll out a panic button. it could be an ap bags panic button, which is about $2,000 per school per year. but it depends on the school district. and it's pens on what best meets the needs of that school districts. so it might be the app, it might be a wearable or it might be both and so we just wants to have that layered approach to help protect our schools. and if a school shooting happens, we can get help there as quickly as possible. >> we just thinking about trying to put a price on the life of the loved ones it's for so many people there grappling with this issue of what funding is used in the fact that there has to be something like this in schools and just the human toll that it's taking emotionally as a nation and beyond lori idf. thank you so much and thank you for sharing. alyssa with the world. i appreciate it.

>> thank you well, we are moments away now from boeing starliner re-entering earth's atmosphere will go back to the johnson space center in houston next here we go consumer cellular uses the same powers as big wireless, but then passes the savings on to you, safely money for something else. speaking of i ordered us some typhoon for unlimited talk in texts with reliable coverage starting at just $20 call consumer selling it's one feel

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summer swag are we sure we're making the best use of our talent can i get some oat milk sometimes great challenge is right under your nose what's your name again i want to say barbara this is your team you have the right set of individuals they're going to take us to the next level hard knocks training camp with the chicago bears, streaming exclusively on max right? >> this is it. we're going full starliner from here on out, the unmanned boeing start spacecraft is set to re-enter the earth's atmosphere just moments from right now, we have all-star team to help walk us through all of it. cnn's kristin fisher is back with us. she's at the johnson space center in houston, were joined by two former nasa astronaut,

garrett reisman and katie coleman and eric burger is also here. he is the senior space editor at rs technically, i'm so glad you're all here. for at this moment, kristen this is another big moment in the re-entry. what are we looking for now so right now, the starliner capsule is re-entering the earth's atmosphere and hitting the highest temperatures that it is going to experience on re-entry temperatures of about 3,000 degrees fahrenheit in a few minutes, we're going to see a communications blackout between the ground and starliner for about four minutes due to all the plasma really hot plasma that builds up due to friction from the earth's atmosphere on re-entry. >> so this is without a doubt, a very a critical moment for starliner. it's the moment that the capsule's heat shield is finally put to the test. but you know, laura, the other really big test that nasa in

particular was so concerned about starliner has already passed with flying colors and that was the de-orbit burn nasa was really worried that some of those all those issues with thrusters and the helium leaks might cause some problems with starliner during the de-orbit burn, which is essentially when those thrusters have to fire to perform a braking maneuver, slow the spacecraft down so that it can drop out of orbit and re-enter the earth's atmosphere. >> and so since starliner had issues with thrusters and helium leaks, they were worried at that moment that it may cause problems during the de-orbit burn. but everything performed really, really well during the de-orbit burn. and now we're entering into that other critical moment. so we should be entering that calms blackout pretty soon. and then laura, if all goes because according to plan, will see the drogue parachutes deploy, then the big main parachutes deploy and hopefully a very smooth landing just after midnight

eastern time in white sands, new mexico, if all goes according to plan, laura it should i mean, very gently touched down in a breezy four miles per hour, things to those parachutes and thanks to some airbags that are underneath a real be underneath starliner to really make sure it has a nice landing so far, boeing has to be very happy by what they're seeing right now. laura i mean, katie, what are you looking for knowing that this de-orbit burn has been successful? and as kristen is laid out for us, what to expect, what will you be looking for during this re-entry into earth's atmosphere? >> well, just hoping that and watching all of the different ways to slow the spacecraft down because you have to, there's no crew inside, but this is the dress rehearsal for when there is crew inside. so just thinking about temperatures, what will the temperature be inside and what are the, what's the reaction spacecraft when those paris sheets come out? i remember in the soyuz, we know it was, it

was a pretty big opening shock like twin in the capsule was spinning. and so looking at the stability of the capsule things like that what could go wrong in terms of the parachuting or the slowing down process without that crew inside, if there is an override system that accrue could actually use that obviously an unmanned space craft could not the one thing i know about is that when they do, they do land the crew could actually it actually does manually release the parachute. >> and that'll be done by the ground in this case but on the on the way down, those things are pretty set guarantee bring you in here. >> do you think that nasa made the right call leaving bucha and sunny, i mean, on the international space station and bringing starliner back without them in it laura yes i do. i think they did make the right call on this circumstance i think all those nasa engineers and made the call it to wager on what would happen right now.

they would have bet that we would have what we're seeing here, which is a fairly successful entry so far they just weren't ready to bet somebody's life on it because of the uncertainty, the fact that they didn't know exactly what was wrong with it. and so i think given that they made the right call and so far so good, but it's not been perfect. we've had another thruster failure this one is one of the 12 thrusters on the descent module. they have 11 more and they have redundancy. it'll be okay if no more fail. but if butch and sunny were sitting in there right now, i would have a pretty high pucker factor we'll talk about those thrusters though because what what role are they playing specifically? >> there are critical number that would have to fail for the redundancy to no longer matter so i could tell you that the threat is do is they point the spacecraft which is really important. >> so it's like your steering wheel on your car. and if that doesn't work and he can't control where the car is pointing. bad things happen, right for 28 thrusters on the

service module. and that's been the focus of really all the scrutiny over the past couple of months and of those 285 of them failed. one of them felt so bad that they didn't try to even bring it back and they're coming home with 27, but they actually performed very well all the way through the de-orbit burn. and that was really the focus of of the scrutiny. but however, once you throw those away, which they did right after the de-orbit burn, then you're dependent on the remaining 12 thrusters, 12 different thrusters that are on the capsule itself and one of those has failed and i don't know they have two systems of six. so presumably if they have more fell and the same unit, they could walked to the backup, but i don't know exactly how many they can stand to lose. >> mao. thinking, just thinking about the mechanics is really, really fascinating to think about eric me, bring you in you know, a lot of the talk surrounding this particular mission in part about the two astronauts who are no longer on it, but it's also bet about the relationship between boeing

and nasa things have gotten a little tense between the two and a kind of space race. can you tell me a little bit why yeah. >> i mean, boeing has been very confident in the safety of its spacecraft and there they view them as the owner of the vehicle. >> and nas is the customer. and so they feel like the space agency out to follow their lead when they're engineer said that this is basically perhaps safe, and the reality is going feels like they provide all of the data that nasa that they needed but at the end of the day nasa is the customer, they're essentially the regulator and their engineers looked at it and said, no, we don't feel comfortable putting our people and that's pretty stinging rebuke. i think boeing and really some of the tension involved and we're looking right now at a live shot while you and i are speaking, this is a large, large, live image right now and feed of boeing's starliner entering the earth's atmosphere as you are seeing it, being identified really interesting to look at what's going on there as we are

watching this and wondering whether all that we have described, whether the parachutes, eventually the ability to steer with the different thrusters and beyond to land safely as expected, what will happen now and it's becoming bigger as it's coming clear interview and obviously closer and closer as it enters the earth's atmosphere, kristen, can you describe? >> a little bit about what you're seeing right now for us, what, what are you looking at with your mind what you're seeing right now is starliner. >> right after it's started re-entering the earth's atmosphere were coming out of this blackout period where starliner just encountering some of the hottest temperatures that it's going to experience. france, on re-entry and you're seeing it kind of streak across the sky. and that's a view that was taken from a nasa aircraft. it's going to be coming up the south pacific ocean, then crossing over the northern port point of baja, mexico, before crossing into a very remote stretch of new mexico before land ending

in white sands, new mexico, just after midnight. and some of the other shops we've been looking at in case you've been wondering, although shots of like helicopters and trucks in the desert that's a staging area for the recovery crews that have to rush out once the capsule lands and they're going to let me performing a variety of checks on the spacecraft once it lands. but, you know, laura, just to put this all in perspective, chris, we're learning as well that we are still pressing. we're seeing right now, it's in the earth's atmosphere and they are able to see starliner from the ground. now katie talk to me about what it is you're seeing in right now and the fact that it is now visible from the ground well, i think it's pretty exciting to folks across the baja peninsula and mexico and i think it's pretty amazing when you realize that there's really, they're going to be the next time this goes, that there would be people on

board. >> and so i think the fact that you can see it just makes it that much more tangible, but they've still got a ways to go in about what well, right now, we're looking for drove shoots. i believe. >> yeah. i mean, garrett about yeah, i think we're about six months and it's a away from it being able to land. and as as kristen has described, garrett were expecting there to be a communication blackout at some point in time. is that going to be happening in this moment is happening now, why is that communication blackout happening? and what could be going on? >> well, as the vehicle goes through that period of peak heating, it's inside a giant ball of plasma, which is just ionized gas. and it's super hot thing, about 3,000 degrees. so it doesn't really matter if i'm talking about fahrenheit or celsius, right? and we're talking 3,000, it's a lot it's really hot and so even radio signals this can penetrate that. and that's why you have this calm black for a period of time. however, it'll come through that it'll it'll get through that period of peak kidding, which for a capsule

design like this is actually a relatively short period of time then and then once it's lower in the atmosphere, then you get the parachutes come out, and then the airbags deployed is huge. since some heat shields and it comes down onto the ground is worth noting that that boeing has done this several times already successfully with his vehicle. they had to other flight tests where they successfully did open up the parachutes and land in the white sands. >> what we're seeing right now to garrett, i mean, there's a big light, it's a strobe light that's visible it's onto that. it's easier for us to see it from the ground. and obviously those who are meeting it is about 12 miles. i understand. and five minutes from landing that's right and what you're seeing there is you're seeing this is the drugs shoots coming up and they're the ones covered those are the drugs used. >> the first two parts you're times of national excuse me, one second.

>> let's listen. >> now, deployed they slow the vehicle down initially told gets to a safe speed for the enormous main parachutes to follow we're hearing for nasa feed intermittently as we're watching it descend quickly to the ground. as well. the parachutes have been deployed to go until touchdown nasa saying about four minutes to go until touchdown, we see the countdown there. kanye, there is to parachutes visible to a view from the cessna aircraft in the vicinity of the landing site. again, this is a view from a little lower than the wb-57 we were seeing so this is the initial shoots and now we're waiting for the main shoots the next thing we're going to see here is the three main parachutes come out and everything will happen pretty quickly from that point on after those maine's are out,

we'll see the bottom heat shield that has been protecting starliner through its journey through the atmosphere, come off that makes way for the land nic, airbags to deploy and there's the main parachutes there on your screen we see three out currently roofing and the teams that the landing recovery teams report that they heard the booms as those came out three good maine's fully open there you can see starliner and a slight tilt, so we're going to see the rotation handle move here shortly and it will level out starliner. >> but three good parachutes looking great. >> just a little over two minutes until the expected

landing time. and we heard the rotational handle has been released, so you can see that tilt even doubt next up is that heat shield jettison there it goes. that again, makes way for the airbag inflation. >> his just say that you can see the airbags deployed there on your screen those airbags are filled with nitrogen as they guide starliner safely back to the desert floor just a beautiful sight starliner makes its way to the sands of new mexico and flight controllers

>> confirming six good airbags spew still coming into us from this cessna we've got about just about a minute left to go until the expected touchdown. >> we watching for that time for you ust about 15 seconds away from expected touchdown

you're seeing the ground there in your screen as we get close r touchdown. >> starliner is back on earth. >> that landing coming at 11:01 and 35 seconds central time 01.

and 31 seconds. mountain time at white sands space harbor at the us army's missile range in new mexico are landing and recovery touchdown. >> we've heard touchdown, starliner back on earth. it was successful kristen, let's go to you. this is very significant yeah, boeing has got to be breathing a big sigh of relief. nasa to, i mean, you still got to get the recovery crews on the ground to make sure everything looks okay. but i think it's almost safe to say, you know, if butch and sunny had been inside starliner on this return to earth? they almost certainly would've been okay, but nasa is saying with all those issues with the thrusters in the helium leaks it just was not a risk that they were willing to take when they had a backup vehicle ready to go but so now the big question is going to be, does starliner need another crewed test flight? or perhaps another

uncrewed test flight, before it can be certified and be fully functioning. part of nasa's commercial crew program. you've got boeing and spacex who were doled out these contracts in 2014 to ferry nasa astronauts to and from the international space station. so far only spacex this has been able to do it. so what happens now? because this landing and re-entry appears to be successful does boeing have to do another one of these test flights before it certified a lot of money is on the line, laura, i mean, remember this program over $1 billion over budget already years behind schedule. so that's really what boeing and nasa are going to be focused on now. but first, you got to deal with the recovery. so what you're going to be seeing in just a few minutes are all these recovery crews, boeing and nasa recovery crews that have been stationed at a nearby staging facility at white sands, new mexico sukkot. they're going to solely converge on the capsule, do

some checks, make sure it's safe before they proceed and officially end this mission. but a successful landing, what we're learning admission kleiner. we're using, we're learning in mission control. there's cheering and clapping. its that all the makings of those hollywood movies when something has accomplished in this moment in time, garrett, let me go back to you on this because we saw things coming off. we saw there was that moment when two of the parachutes had been deployed and it they're trying to level out the actual starliner. you can only imagine what that must be like if you were part of a crew inside of that, this was uncrewed. no crew was on board, but talk to us about what you were thinking as it was going down in descending in a way it did well, it was a measure of relief at that point once the parachutes are out, the thing that we've been worrying about these thrusters, they no longer have a role to play. >> and really from that point on, it all happened exactly as you as by design and yes, it looks dramatic with a lot of

moving parts. but as a crew member riding home in one of these vehicles that's what you're trained to expect. so christians are absolutely correct. i mean, this is definitely a measure of vindication for a very hardworking team of boeing engineers and operations folks that brought starliner home but there are open questions and i think we're very anxious to get to the day where we're flying people in starliner again, i know both katie and i have good friends that are signed up to be on the next crew it's supposed to be in starliner, but but but there's going to be a lot of hard questions to answer first because there's no way that, that nasa and boeing want to go through who something like this again, where there's so many open questions. >> well, katie, to that point and you heard kristen talked about the one of the big questions is, is this particular test run enough to placate and alleviate any concerns about having cruise on board. now that you have seen what has transpired, there's an element so, you know, hindsight being 2020. do you have

concerns about this being enough to alleviate those concerns well, i think there's a lot of data that, i mean, one of the best things about, having this capsule come down safely is that we're going to be able to collect a lot of data from the dissent and understand the performance of the stress the thrusters. >> one of the big questions that they've wrestled with the whole time has been they've tested the thrusters and white sand but then how does that compare to how we expect them to perform an orbit and so now, now that capsule is back and there'll be able to take a look at the thrusters and understand more of that. and i think that that idea of it, nasa were always simulating, but it's never exactly you don't want the same. but it's been a really big question. if we understand this down here, do we understand it up there? and i think they're going to get a lot of valuable data to be able to do that, but that will be the question to answer. >> right now, we're watching on the ground. you have a caravan of a recovery crew in

route to retrieve this starliner. we should mention and the reason this is in right now, you're seeing it in black and white. it is, of course, darkness in new mexico and the ap, the ability to be able to see with night vision is the reason it's showing up on your screens in this fashion. eric, this recovery though, the idea of going to retrieve boeing starliner, talked a little bit about why this might be valuable in trying to determine the safety of starliner in the future to perform the very functions that nasa has asked it to well, it's important to get this spacecraft back and look at the condition of the vehicle. but really the bigger concern of course, was the performance of those stressors on the service module and nasa and boeing did get some good data tonight on their vehicle when it was flying in space and they'll talk more about that later. i'm sure but i agree with the other panelists. there are some very hard questions for nasa and boeing to face. this spacecraft was launched quite frankly, with this roster

has an unknown issue and both nasa and boeing signed off on that. so they're going to really want to get to the root cause of those problems before they put people back on this vehicle again, you know, i have to, you know, as a layman, not an astronaut looking at the precision and the expect expectations of what would transpire, garrett it happening in order you know, the plan is also going to back in the day the 800m loving it when a plan comes together but there's got to be a sense of real concern and anxiety when you're waiting for all of those dominos to fall, right in line. and how many different people would have to be involved in chest making sure that everything went according to plan yeah. >> i love the 18 reference so yes. >> it was it was a lot of people working really, really hard and they will learn a lot from what just happened. >> but eric hit on something very important, which is the fact that the pieces of

hardware that we really were interested in were disposed those devin space and we'll never get back, so we won't be able to tear him apart and look at them and so we got to see what we could figure out by doing more ground testing and getting looking at the performance that we did get. because it's really important that boeing gets through this and certifies this when we start using starliner as another way to get people back and-forth to space this whole incident demonstrates why it's so important for nasa to have two different options so that you have choices if something's wrong with one of your vehicles, you have a backup and we need starliner to be there to be that other option. >> and yet katie, i mean, these the options, it's not as if one can just turn to the other one within a few hours, even the next day, you've got the two astronauts who are, who are still there, butch and sunny. you're talking next year, there'll be able to return. they've seen the success of touching down. i do wonder what you think they might be thinking, seeing the success of this operation? chin on behalf

well, i think that when the decision was made, it was in terms of its test flight. >> so there's some risk there, there's added risk because there's a problem with the thrusters and we understand understand it, but don't understand how to make sure we can we. want that everything can go correctly. and so was it the safest option for bringing them home? no, it wasn't. i don't think anyone is shocked to see the successful landing here and i think it was disappointing for them not to be able to climate and knowing they'd probably be safe on the ground, but it wasn't the right thing to do. so i'm sure there's a lot of mixed feelings up there. in terms of actually just being in space and spending longer. i can't see garrett's face, but i think if you asked garret know we'd be up there and they've been they've been the shepherds of this spacecraft for a long time, for a couple of years now and not going on flights and then they were going to come up for eight days and now they get to spend months. there are fully train crew, they're so good on orbit. and in these past two months with having so many people up there, it's

literally a different space station with that to-do list, like knocked out of the way. so i think there's mixed feelings both on the ground and up in space, but we're always learning that's an important thing. >> it's kind of like that mindset if i would have to do it, i get to do it. >> that's probably the best way to approach that over the next several months for them in particular. and of course, living your whole life with this passion and now being able to be there must be very exciting under all the circumstances. eric, we're looking at the success of this particular endeavor. but it's not that boeing will be left without a blackeye in all this no, like it's really not. >> i mean, this commercial crew program now, really dates back to 2014 when boeing and spacex, both one contracts from nasa for these services. and at the time, boeing is really the gold standard in human spaceflight. everyone at nasa felt that way and spacex, they felt they were kind of taking a flyer on. now for ten years later for spacex to have to fly up and bring

bush and saudi back eventually, because nasa didn't feel starliner was safe enough for its crew that is really a devastating blow to boeing and his position in spaceflight. it's important to see how they recover from this. >> it will be, and of course, there's for every chair that's happening with boeing, there might be a little bit of gloating on the other side when you're talking about this sort of space race, but both can learn from the successes or failures from the other. and at the end, i mean, kristen, let me go back to you. you have been covering this so closely. you have been are eyes are there's are mind on the ground. just see this finally come to fruition. >> this is really fascinating and exciting it isn't its really the culmination of what nasa has been trying to do for about a decade now, which is garrett was saying, you know, have these two vehicles that could serve as a backup to one another in case a problem arose on one of them i don't think anybody thought that the need for a backup would arise quite

this quickly, but this is indeed what nasa is commercial crew program was all about that backup system that redundancy. and of course the ability for nasa to outsource this ferrying of astronauts to and from the international space station to private companies so that it can focus on another things like getting astronauts to the moon and then mars. one more thing, laura just bouncing off what katie was saying you know, i think i'm sure katie i'm sure garrett, i'm sure most astronauts wouldn't complain about being forced to spend more time of at the international space station. i mean, i'm actually sitting in the this is actually a full-scale mockup of the international space station behind me at the johnson space center. this is where butch and sunny and probably katie and garrett trained for their missions to the international space station plan and train for all these contingencies, be at an eight-day mission that's now jumped to roughly an eight month mission. i think what

maybe harder is not so much on the astronauts, but on the family members of the astronauts who are left back on earth, you know, butchers kids, and a wife. sunny has husband and some dogs that she says basically her children. so you know, speaking is the daughter of two former nasa astronauts. it's it's often tougher on the families that are left behind on earth in the astronauts themselves who get stuck up there. but i don't want to speak for from and sunny, i'm sure garrett and katie have some thoughts on that as well. >> well, let me tell you something. i i'm not married to an astronaut, but i would have one heck of a honeydew list when he got home right now, thank you so much. >> you're in space. what are you doing up there? i'm good all this. it will be a whole conversation you y'all. thank you so much, everyone. and nasa is going to be holding a press conference in the next hour. you'll be able to see that right here on cnn. can our coverage is going to continue after a very quick break just