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square welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live today on the program as the world waits to see if the middle east crisis becomes even further inflame talk to a former top israeli intelligence official, who's area of expertise is iran and a israeli will bring you two very different views on it from two important thinkers bernard henri levy tallahassee coats

israel's recent campaign against hezbollah will go down as one of the most brilliant tactical successes in warfare, or triumph of great intelligence and military execution but it also highlights a trend that the surprise attack of october 7 might have obs. >> israel is now the most powerful military actor in the middle east. the region's superpower 12 years ago, i pointed out that the decades old balance of power in the middle east had been upended. the jewish state used to be david up against the regions. golan heights, syria, iraq, and egypt. but all those three countries are now shadows of their former selves. bashar al assad rules over a battered rump syria iraq is dysfunctional, internally divided and mired and corruption egypt is in slow motion, economic collapse under the tight control of a dictator who jails islamic militants. and it's probably delighted to see israel take the battle to them. in 2010, in a

comprehensive examination, the arab israeli military balance, anthony court isman and aram. noguchi in detailed how israel had leaped ahead of its neighbors on virtually every dimension of effective military strength in 2014, business insider asked experts to help rank the region's military powers and concluded that tiny israel was the clear number one over the last decade, the gap has enlarged as israel has continued to boom economically. and as america billions of dollars of military aid have added up consider the difference between israel and iran. iran has almost ten times the population of israel or larger active duty army and more battle tanks and other equipment but israel's military budget last year was more than double that of iran. that doesn't take into account israel's huge qualitative edge. while iran has almost

40,000 soldiers in its air force, reuters reports that it has just a few dozen working strike aircraft many of them aging american planes or russian equipment that is decidedly second raid meanwhile israel has hundreds of the most advanced western fighter jets manned by a highly trained and well-equipped air force a few months ago iran's president and foreign minister died in an accident while riding an old vietnam war era american bell helicopter. a martyr for which they lacked spare parts and proper maintenance if that's the state of military hardware being used for the countries president imagine what the average iranian soldier is using is real strategic environment has also been transformed were once the most powerful arab states where its enemies today they're its friends business insider ranks as number three and number four on its midst of military powers

saudi arabia and the uae, de facto allies of israel. >> and of course, israel as the only country in the middle east with a powerful nuclear force some weapons reportedly housed in submarines, which gives him in maximum effectiveness as a deterrent you might not have been as aware of these realities because for the last two decades, benjamin netanyahu has been on a campaign to portray iran as 20 feet tall, which of course then requires israel to adopt hardline policies on all fronts. in speeches, press conferences, and interviews, he has been relentless on the mortal threat that iran poses to israel. one that has in his view been growing every year in fact, his obsession with iran might have lulled israel into taking its eye off the threat posed by hamas we all netanyahu, many in the israeli government believed that hezbollah was a fearsome with for years. and that could

claim to have driven israel out of lebanon in the past but the reality is that like iran, hezbollah has also been weakened by decades of sanctions. and some members have surely fallen prey to corruption. while we don't know the details in this case usually a foreign intelligence service can penetrate an organization only when its members have lost faith in their mission and can be he easily bribed the lesson here is one that americans have also needed to learn over the decades the enemy is rarely as strong as you fear as with the soviet union. and saddam hussein's iraq and al-qaeda america's adversaries had significant weaknesses that washington mist iran today is a country that has lived for more than four decades under crippling sanctions. and a dysfunctional regime and while it could lash out if it felt it had no option of face regime and i relation it is no match

for israel. the danger for israel is the same as for the united states in recent decades its military superiority can lead to stunning tactical victories america topple the taliban in mere months in 2001. and it took just three weeks to get to baghdad and take the iraqi capital. but those brilliant tactical winds ended up becoming strategic losses. because the united states got mired and slow grinding occupations it's a parallel that israel should be thinking about as it enters its second year in gaza. and begins to invade lebanon and let's get started iran retaliated against israel for high level assassinations

on tuesday, the islamic republic launched around 200 ballistic missiles at targets across israel, is were shot down. most of them with the help of the u.s. and others, but some got through israel elie prime minister benjamin netanyahu vowed that iran will pay. so how might israel retaliate against iran joining me is danny is to turn oh, it's he served in israel's military intelligence as head of the iranian strategic brunch. he's now a fellow at the atlantic council danny, welcome. tell us, explain to us, iran did this once before april 14th. and the israeli response was quite measured in lly took out a crucial, but i think a single radar why, is. why does prime minister netanyahu has seemed to be signaling this one is going to be this israeli response is going to be much bigger

sunny tel aviv well, when you're looking at 14 april attack, we need to remember the constraints that israel had when he wanted to retaliate against iran. we had the american administration that pushing hard on israel to contain its retaliation. but also we have hezbollah as a tool, as a measure that iran could use in order to threaten israel before what happened the last couple of weeks, hezbollah was a fearsome enemy to the set of israel with capabilities would actually inflicted severe damage to this strategic sites of israel. so in that without those constraints, where in the april 14 attack that led to very symbolic response by israel. but unfortunately, right now, unfortunately for the iranians, there are no constraints anymore. and i think that's really raising the chances that israel will retaliate. we tally it hard. with dramatically, significantly against iran constraints we're the fear of hezbollah as the kind of loaded

gun of iran. >> and the second was pressure from the american administration not to escalate. why do you feel the pressure from the american administration has has either died out? come in ineffective time it was easy to say today, israeli government responsibility and nothing else will happen. >> and then we got struck again by the iranians. so obviously second time israel has to do something differently. but i think also it also connected to the american politics and the fact that the administration, a couple of weeks before the election cannot proceed, someone that perceived as some of that pressuring israel not to defend itself. i think what the administration trying to do now is pressuring israel not of course, it's not able to pressure not to retaliate, but he make a trying to make some adjustments to the targets the records, ministration is wary, afraid that things will escalate into a regional war. this is why they're pressuring israel to pick targets that will enable them in the future

to contain the running retaliation and vast preventing a regional escalation and know whether they're going to succeed in doing so. but for sure, they are debates, discussion between israel and the u.s. in that regard. and you have to win to be seen what will happen next couple of days and what israel will choose eventually if you had to guess danny there's been talk about nuclear sites, oil refineries, and installations, and other military targets. >> do you think the attack will be focused on what israel wants to achieve before we think about the targets. >> what a thing, what israel wants to achieve. i'm sure that israel doesn't want to find itself in a war of attrition with iran. and we have the lebanese arena and we have the gaza rina too. focus on. and i don't think that we want to open another rina with iran, but we have to retaliate. this is why i think we have to pick targets that will enable the iranians to contain the

response. so obviously going for the oil refineries or even go for the nucleoside. this is something that would pressure the iranian regime to retaliate, but also they would think to cross the rubicon into some of the nuclear capabilities. so thinking that regard, maybe the military sites the many targets, targets will enable iran to continue in the future. but again, it's all connected what the israeli government want to achieve from the future attack against iran and then this would have to result in an iranian retaliation right? you're in iran expert. they presumably have to particularly because now they don't have the option of asking hezbollah juror to respond they are going to have to increasingly get involved directly in a thing that the chances are they going to retaliate this is why we are standing in front of real escalation. region one between israel and iran. that's for sure. i liked 14 april, i think. now the chances are higher in that regard. and

i think it's also connected to the fat-free like you said, the iranians feel the need to retaliate because of the situation of hezbollah. remember that hezbollah was the cushion. what the real protector overrun the element that really the deterred israel not to attack iran now, without hezbollah or with hezbollah diminishing in a way because of the israeli attack against it. iran has to take a step forward using its muniz missile capabilities, but also a suspect, they will have to do something in terms of the nucleus strategy because they really want to fortify the deterrence with other proxies and of course it remains to be seen, but i'm afraid that if israel retaliates significantly higher chances that iran really tired as well to balance the equation between eight and israel danny, that was incredibly insightful. thank you so much for helping us think. i think this through next on gps israel bombarded beirut again last night as its ground invasion continues in

southern lebanon, what is hezbollah's capacity to fight back we'll discuss with kim ghattas in beirut when we come back world change tv on the edge. tonight at nine on cnn symptoms kept me out of the picture. >> now, i have sky i've got picture, feels significant symptom relief at four weeks with guirassy including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements improved damage to the intestinal lining and with sky resy, many were in remission at 12 weeks. i've one year and even at two years serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them may

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writer at the atlantic. >> welcome game. first, tell us what is it like? you live in beirut, but not in a park area considered a hezbollah stronghold. are you safe >> i have to say it was a very heavy night of shelling. it was quite hellish. i live just a five-minute drive away from the southern suburbs. which is actually a quite diverse neighborhood as well. i know it's often referred to as a hezbollah stronghold and it does have a lot of hezbollah infrastructure in offices, but it also has a variety of people living there who also are now in the crossfire. and you can hear these very loud explosions almost across beirut to the ground shook at one point and israel is framing this as a war against hezbollah. but i must say that the lebanese feel targeted themselves as well and they feel that they're being punished for choices that

hezbollah made which they did not approve of. and so these are very difficult tense days for the lebanese these because although hezbollah has many opponents, i would say a solid majority of lebanese oppose hezbollah. the lebanese are also very worried about what israel's intentions sa'ar in lebanon, because they've watched gaza for the last 11 months thought was very fascinating and helping us understand the israeli success against hezbollah. >> you pointed out that hezbollah used to be this very tight secret of organization. but when it got involved in the syrian civil war all that changed explain what you mean >> i want to start by pointing out also fareed that what israel is trying to do today is destroy a problem that it helped create when it invaded in 1982. it was in the wake of that invasion that hezbollah

was born. and even though that invasion at the time was seen as a tactical success, as you pointed out yourself in your introduction, in your take of the week, it turned out into a strategic failure because precisely it lead to the rise of hezbollah, which used to be a gorilla movement seen by many as a resistance movement against israeli occupation of southern lebanon. but over time, the group grew corrupt, grew, fat, grew bigger, grew into a more traditional part of the lebanese establishment and got involved but on the side of president bashar al assad in his war in syria. and so they were gone from the underground and into a much more regular army style operation which expose them to surveillance, expose them to corruption an expose them to the hatred of many sudanese, but others also in lebanon, in syria, and in the rest of the arab world. for the terrible role that they played in this very bloody civil war. and i think that has

been there downfall and that's what led to such penetration by intelligence, signal intelligence the drones, but also human intelligence kim, what about what happens now, israel seems to be saying they haven't clearly said, but there's saying that goal is to defeat hezbollah. >> but hezbollah is not just a militant organization know terrorist organization it also is political and social organization within lebanon. and it represents the sheer who are the majority in lebanon. can you really defeat? hezbollah in that sense? >> i think history has shown that you cannot defeat guerrilla groups, armed movements without presenting a better idea of political pull. id. similarly for hamas. and the same in lebanon, it may be, it may be possible to put them on the backfoot to decapitate them. the great time i'm worried that they will go underground as they did during

the 80s to fight israel as it tries to take some. territory or some incursions into southern lebanon as for the lebanese political scene, as i said, they have many political opponents. there is a sense here that this is a moment to come together. and we'll have to see whether the lebanese political establishment and the opposition can manage that to show national unity, which is not necessarily to the exclusion of hezbollah and certainly not to the exclusion of the shia community with which is a large minority not a, not a majority, but a large minority. and they feel whatever we think of hezbollah or nasrallah, they feel many of them feel now leaderless and defenseless and they have to be made to be included into lebanon's future and protected by the state. so we've heard many statements from washington about whether this is an what unity to strengthen the lebanese state at the expense of hezbollah. i think we really need to frame it positively that this is a moment to

strengthen the state for the sake of lebanon and just to emphasize also that none one of this political discussion, none of these political movements diplomacy, national unity, can really develop under what is a very heavy israeli military campaign, not only because that it does not lead to conducive, that is not conducive to real political discussions and progress, but also because nobody in lebanon or in the region wants to be seen as it's to seize the opportunity of an israeli invasion or an israeli military campaign. nobody wants to be seen to be profiting from that, even though, as i said, people have very mixed feelings about, about hezbollah. but they are also very worried about israel's intentions in lebanon. i want to quote the israeli author and peace activist, almost ours, who in 1982 wrote after that invasion, we can never atone for what we did in beirut. and i'm really

worried that we're seeing that film of 1982 repeat, as you said fareed tactical successes but strategic failures. and for the sake of lebanon, we need national unity. we need de-escalation, if not a ceasefire, and we need to give the ability for the lebanese to come together and for this country to come out of this it's been tacked thank you. >> kim ghattas, really terrific insights. next bernard henri levy on one year after october 7 and as questions like, what does a comedy show doing on cnn that's too much i want donald. >> now, can you slight that nobody got news for you saturday at nine on cnn. awkward question is you're going to be anything left leftover. >> oh, absolutely my kids

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henri levy went to israel to bear witness to the immediate aftermath of hamas's brutal attacks. the french philosopher and writer has been a proud and outspoken zionist for years. but the atrocities he saw in the wake of october 7 moved him to write his first book on israel. israel alone. >> he joins me now, bernard henri levy, welcome as always tell us what you what do you think looking at this year after october 7? for you, what is the big lesson or less fareed is that israel is alone alone to mall and to grieve alone to fight and alone to win. >> when you americans did

retaliate against september 11 there was a great coalition around you when we french did retaliate after bataclan after shalip go in mosul to london, raqqah, there was a great coalition around us to support around israel. there is no coalition there are allies like france or america who blackmail who was, who asked for compromise for whatever. there is not a real coalition, there is solitude of israel. this is after one year alas the bitter lesson, which are retain from the hole sequence you know bernarda that people say that the reason the united states or france has put pressure on israel is that they feel that israel's goal say the complete destruction of hamas or hezbollah is unrealistic.

>> and more importantly, can only be achieved at great cost to the civilian populations in gaza and southern lebanon, which will produce more terrorists than it kills, is that a fair way to think about it? >> my dear fareed, i have the privilege of age, the dark preview level of age. i covered a lot of walz. i covered a lot. i was in many battlefields in my life i was in somalia. i was in afghanistan. i was in many places. >> i never saw an army doing as much trying as much as the reason at ami in to avoid too many casualties. >> this is the reality of the battlefield. we french in mosul we did not take so many precautions you americans in

kabul and in mazar-i-sharif in 2001, same today israel takes precautions which i never saw any other army in the world involved in such a a, such a war taking this through reality. now, of course, too many casualties, of course it is heartbreaking. of course what's every every day when i wake up, when i look at my phone, the news from gaza and from the cbm casualties. >> i am depressed but you must know that idf, those other called for evaluation for evacuation warnings did you see any army warning before striking even on the strategic or tactical, tactical point of view, it's nearly absurd, but then they do that. >> they allege they won't. they announced the strike few hours,

sometimes few days before in order to permit as many civilians as possible to quit and the hamas in gaza and us bola in lebanon prevent what do you say binary to those who say, well, the backdrop, but in gaza is that the israel has been occupying the palestinian people occupying these lands in the west bank. and of course, gaza is more complicated, but still, israel has control for 56 years. and you can't, you can't forget that context one of the biggest i heard seems wrong. there is no context for what happened in october 7. this extent of

raped and killed same time, families and tell your families taken like cattle, like praise, liking, untick, rahma there is no context explaining that. no context. number one. number two you can say what you can think, whatever you want about what happens in the when banks in the west bank nothing to do with nothing comparable together, gaza was not occupied since 50 years there was not even a synagogue in gaza. >> the blockade by hey, though israelis of gaza was for military devices or devices allowing to make military weapons. so no occupation all that excuse of crime pleasure to hear from you. the book is israel alone and i should point out that bernard

henri levy will be on a campus tour in the united states to talk to young students because of what he worries about, which is a rising tide of anti-semites it doesn't mean the united states, so please get the book and watch for his campus tour next up we have a different take on israel from an important american thinker, ta-nehisi coates with decks calm g7 managing your diabetes, just got easier so what's your glucose number right now good thing. >> you don't fingerstick house all about food affect your glucose oh, the answers on your phone. >> what if you're heading lower? >> wow, it can alert you do you can even track your goals manager, diabetes with confidence, with deck come g7, the most just accurate cgm learn more at decks com.com for over 25 years, loved sack has

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original and number one selling beat brand for heart health support is now available at walmart. >> more cardiologists recommend super beets for heart health support than any other be brand. so head to walmart try super beads, heart choose today. >> okay. ready to ask me one second. >> i got to finish my laundry. >> it's girls like one second. i use rinse wash rinse to the company that will pick up wash fold and olivier laundry and dry cleaning up that testimony veteran, i do not trust other people with my laundry rinse guarantees are satisfaction i've been using it for months now with no issues okay. >> let's watch this. >> wait, i'm gonna do my laundry better hurry gun i'll schedules, sign up for rinsing rinse.com to get $20 off your first-order. i'm erin burnett in israel and this is cnn perspective of a passionate supporter of israel. now, i want to bring you another perspective and no less passionate critique of the same country. it's from the rider.

dana has the codes who usually trains his eye and his ben on the challenges facing america? >> but in a new book called the message coats writes about his visit last major israel and the west bank and all that he saw there toddler has coats. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me for so when you get to the west bank, when you add to israel, let's talk about it first in those terms you sort of approached this whole book and that process as a writer, exploring but you must have had preconceptions. >> you must have had thoughts when you went there, were they confirmed where they disconfirmed how did that how did you feel when you got there? >> yes. that's a great question for me and it's something i write about in the book a little bit. i had like a kind of vague, vague notions probably where i sit on the political spectrum, there are people who are deeply, deeply skeptical of zionism has a project that was there but as a writer, i really, really try to

avoid getting into a position where i am taking strong public stances on things that i have not seen firsthand confirm the skepticism. in fact, i would say a demon did and made it significantly worse i write about in the book, i am the child of parents born into you, jim crow, a system in which we had one group people who are given one class of citizenship and another group of people who are not throw my travel was in israel and on the west bank i saw a level of citizenship afford jewish israelis. and then i saw as something lesser in various tiers for everybody else, i would include palestinian citizens of israel also in that. and i was forced to wonder how a country the takes the civil rights movement so seriously, it could be implicated in such a project that was very disturbing, is very disturbed. >> you say that you saw more racism in israel than anyway, you've seen there's a line in

your book that is something to that. >> well, i said that i never saw it burned so strange and so hot exactly and strange because i was not the subject of it. i for the first time in my life probably i was the observer and kind of outside of it you know, i think about a story i tell quite often by a visit to the city of hebron and being with somebody whose parents and grandparents have been born into a city and yet they could not walk down the street with the freedom that that i could i think about being all over the west bank. and if i had the taxi with the right color license plate, i've pretty much had freedom to move and yet people whose ancestors had been here for hundreds of years denied you know i think about the justice system and the fact of meeting with people who were living under a military justice system where only a mile or so away was a settlement that was ruled by the civil justice system of israel that just i don't know how we as americans

with all of our emphasis on democracy freedom, i don't know how, how, how we look past a society that erects a structure like this where the segregation is so clear and so obvious i am baffled as to why we are okay with that a lot of people would say in israel would say, look where we are flawed, but we are a democracy. >> we do have, a, we have quotes, we do have we have it's often said it's the only democracy in the middle east. when you go there, and you, what's your reaction to that kind of that that argument? >> well, i will say i am skeptical because i'm probably somebody who would argue that america itself did not really have a democracy until the 1960s when you have the entire solid south that is basically ruled by ignoring one-third of its population and wiping them out. i just don't know how you call that a democracy. and so i would say the same thing about,

about israel. this is a situation where israel has ruled over the west bank and gaza since 1967 and his people have no real say in their ultimate governance. i don't know how you call yourself a democracy in a situation like that, when you look at it, do you think to use the analogy, jim crow is at a apartheid? how do you think about it? >> what i saw struck me as jumbo jim crow, that was the first thing that occurred that academy and then i got back and i know i was writing this and i had to do the research and i read the report from amnesty international charging apartheid. i read the report from human rights watch charging apartheid. i read the report from our betsy lam the israeli human rights group charging apartheid, al-haq charging a part of the palestinian human rights. and then i read the words of ehud barak and ehud olmert warning of apartheid i mean, it's very

hard once the evidence starts piling up to avoid the obvious includes, so i do i do use the term apartheid, but i don't just use that based on my own own impressions. the as i'm concerned and to those who say, look, what you describe on the ground complicated the palestinians have been willing to take peace deals that a terrorist group like hamas attacks, innocent the israelis. what do you say to that? >> well, i don't i don't deny any of that but what i say to that is there things in this world that we just take, you know, strong moral positions on certainly the history of it is complicated. certainly the systems over there are complicated, but i don't think the morality of it is i've used this metaphor quite a bit, but i am somebody that is anti-death penalty i am anti-death penalty for those that sell nickel bags of

marijuana on a corner n for serial killers to and so like the case against apartheid for me, is not a case of palestinian hyper morality. but the idea that hamas is so noble. >> there is nothing that i could have seen over there that would have led me to conclude, yes, apartheid is justified. >> there's just nothing i could see that would make me feel like that was okay. >> there's a lot more of the book, but i just thought we'd do a deep dive on this one very important can actually appreciate it for reid. >> thank you next on gps meryl streep with a speech about the treatment of women in afghanistan i'll tell you what she said and i'll suggest a somewhat controversial path to make things better at night i'm out here telling people how they can save money with experience and really like someone who has a lot of subscriptions, i have a lot to many i'd say you can see yours

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donald now can you slice that i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com if you or a loved one have mesothelial not we'll send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 800 a31, 3,700 week on the sidelines of the un general assembly, the actress meryl streep, made a powerful plea on behalf of afghan women today in kabul, a female cat has more freedoms than a woman a cat may go sit on her front stoop and feel the sun on her face she may chase a squirrel into the park a squirrel has more rights than a girl in afghanistan today because the

public parks have been closed to women and girls by the taliban a bird may sing in kabul but a girl may not. and a woman may not. in public streep is absolutely right to call attention to the appalling oppression of women under taliban rule. the question is what exactly can the rest of the world do to help so far, the u.s. has taken a hard line. it has refused to recognize the taliban government and maintain sanctions on the taliban and frozen afghanistan central bank reserves last week, a group of countries threatened to bring the taliban to the international court of justice for violating a un treaty that protects women from discrimination activist want to go further and codify gender apartheid as a crime against humanity in order to charge the taliban there's all certainly sounds morally satisfying and write but the strategy of

shaming and sanctioning hasn't really worked against us adversaries from cuba to iran, to north korea none of those governments have collapsed or reconciled with the u.s. or granted. and if freedom to their people an important voice is instead calling for engagement with the taliban, that of saad mohseni, who cofounded afghanistan's largest media company most any abhors the taliban's treatment of women among his many disagreements with the group but he wants to try to make progress. he writes in a fascinating new book are kind of memoir of his time. in afghanistan radio free afghanistan, about how his company now generally cooperates with the taliban's rules but often negotiates the bounds of what is possible and occasionally even defies the taliban after the group returned to power in 2021, was in his network's canceled programming. they knew would be objectionable. >> in other ways, they adapted

hosting all female shows to avoid the mixing of genders. >> they complied with a new rule requiring women to cover their faces, but also mounted a protest by having men wear face masks, even asking taliban officials to wear them when the taliban closed girls schools, they produce televised education so it could reach them. most any believes the taliban can be reasoned with, to some extent, and that there are workarounds but the taliban crave respect above all else, and often digging when challenged sometimes it's outdoors have taken simple steps to mollify them dropping the term taliban and instead, speaking of the islamic emirate, their preferred term many in the west understandably consider the taliban beyond the pale, undeserving of any legitimacy. but the reality is they are now in control of afghanistan the world has to work with them in some way. >> that's not to say that washington should abandon all pressure far from it.

>> but it must be pragmatic sometimes progress comes in small increments and half-measures but it's better than none at all. especially for the long suffering women of afghanistan part of my program this week. i will see you next week stake helene's coming out episodes says to the world, it's okay to be gay. i don't think i realized how much it meant till i saw the reactions tv on the edge moments that shaped our culture tonight at nine on cnn. >> i'm jonathan larson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program if your age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget remember the three ps what are the three ps >> the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget. our price, price and price. a price you can afford a price

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