of these poisonings and today, you know, we don't have to fear this kind of contamination able to catch this person in some sense, the perfect crime there are. >> i suppose, many unsolved crimes in history. and i'm not smart enough to solve those, let alone this one. >> i think the tylenol murderer is still out there dancing in the streets the tylenol murders, and in that span of time, several suspects and investigators close to the case have died leaving many to wonder if time has run out on solving this mystery but one thing is certain time stopped on september 29th, 1982 for the victims and their families i'm jesse l martin thanks for watching. good night

family i beg for your help. my son. and i are innocent. >> there is a huge evil cover up going on. the police have made a terrible mistake and are attempting to cover up what they have done to us. >> my son and i were arrested on july 5th, 1998 for a crime that we did not do really happened. >> i'm jesse l martin. it was july 5th, 1998, when 82 year old irene silverman, a wealthy

widow, mysteriously disappeared from her new york city townhouse. while police went on a frantic search to find her they had no idea that their investigation would unravel. one of the most shocking crimes they had ever seen. a deadly trail of deceit and fraud that stretched from the bahamas to los angeles. >> this is how it really happened manhattan, july 4th weekend is absolutely dead. it's hot weather. it's muggy. you can hardly breathe. the residents of the upper east side basically scurry out to long island to be in their houses on the ocean. >> we had three detectives working the uniformed officers had what i would consider like a skeleton crew. we were told that a gentleman was downstairs who was looking to report someone missing and that's where i met mr. jeff feig. he was the manager for irene silverman's accounts.

>> irene silverman was known as a manhattan socialite. >> jeff fey is very nervous, very worried about irene silverman. at the time, he was very insistent that something happened to her. >> he was very, very adamant and credible that she never left the house. if she's not there, there's a serious problem. >> she was an unusual person to suddenly go missing at age 82, when she never left the house alone beautiful home less than a block away from central park. it's an extremely wealthy area. she had been in that neighborhood and that house for many years. >> she lived by herself and had a small but very close group of friends. >> she had a certain reputation among people in the arts and show business. >> she's a former ballerina for radio city, which is how she met her bank. her husband. >> irene silverman was married

to sam silverman, who was a mortgage broker, a very successful businessman. >> she was red hair, vivacious, very outgoing, charismatic. >> she probably around five feet tall, probably 100 pounds, if that after irene silverman's husband passed away, she converted apartments and she started renting them out. she was an early version of an airbnb. to me, it seemed not so much to make money as to have company cautious about the people that she rented apartments to. you'd have to be affluent and recommended by someone she didn't advertise. >> a couple of the famous people she had in there was daniel day lewis, chaka khan and other business tycoons in her office at about 5th, by a worker who had been

sent off to do some chores and to take the dog up to the roof for its daily walk. first order of business is to go around, make sure we went through every nook and cranny we called every hospital. do you have an irene silverman? do you have a jane doe with this description? >> we called friends anyone that might have any contact with her, anything at all that may give us any clue as to where irene was at the initial stages of the investigation, there was no forensic evidence as far as a struggle that was not visible at all. >> but as we got further into the investigation, we realized that something was definitely amiss. it was noticed that approximately $10,000, which several people knew that she kept, was in fact missing from the closet. >> we interviewed her staff and they told us that a man in apartment one b has been very suspicious, to the point where

irene silverman told them about him. apartment one b was located about 20ft from irene silverman's office on the first floor. >> this was a young man going by the name of manny guérin, six foot one, dark hair green eyes, broad shoulders. >> the staff members told us about a woman who would come to apartment one b she was known as eva, and the tenants became suspicious of her as well, because she would never look at people, would never talk to anybody. she seemed too old to be his girlfriend, but yet she'd spend the night with him. so this was making irene very nervous and scared apartment for approximately 3 to 4 weeks prior to irene silverman's disappearance. manny guerin had apparently made arrangements to rent the apartment

that irene charged $6,000 for the one month's rent. >> usually, she didn't rent out her apartment until she had vetted their references, but she is taken in by the fact that manny guerin has $6,000 in cold, hard cash that he's willing to pay right there for the first month's rent, and he says he's going to get her his references asap but his references never came quickly that manny guerin is sketchy and she should never have let him into her home. >> there was some talk that he was seen right by the door, sort of listening for her. >> she had security cameras in her vestibule and he would duck those security cameras every time he went in and out of the building. >> irene had video cameras, but unfortunately they were just used for monitoring purposes. there was no recording devices. it was just where she could look in case the doorbell rang.

she could see who in fact, that person was irene was so suspicious of manny guerin that she did a trace of his face like a sketch, and she even took meticulous notes about his behavior. on july 4th, on a party that she threw she mentioned to jeff feig that she wanted to evict him, and they did make plans that on or about july 6th that monday they would serve him with papers to have him evicted. >> she wanted him out. >> on the morning of july 5th, 1998, manny guerin was the only tenant in the building. >> shortly after irene disappeared, manny guerin was nowhere to be found either. >> we tried to locate him and we couldn't. we did background checks on the name. nothing came back, so we were at a dead end at that point

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the morning of july 7th. a detective from the nypd working this case received a phone call from the fbi. >> one of the agents saw the press conference. >> as a result of him recognizing the sketch, he conveyed that he in fact, thought that they had manny guerin in custody. >> the fbi had arrested the fugitives the night before millionaire's mansion has been found, and is behind bars tonight. >> police think her tenant 23 year old kenneth kimes, is a con artist who gave the fake name manny guerin to live on the first floor of silverman's townhouse. kimes mother sante kimes, was also arrested sunday night. >> the kimes allegedly wrote the car dealership a bad check for $15,000 in march. >> sante and kenneth kimes were arrested for the bad check just a few hours after irene silverman had been reported

missing. after meeting sante for the first time, you would think she was the best woman in the world. >> i was assigned to sit with her. the first thing she says is that's a beautiful tie. your wife must have really great taste in ties and men. >> they had id on them of irene silverman. they had her passport, her social security card and keys to irene silverman's house sante said irene couldn't have really disappeared because they were going to have plastic surgery together, and that's why she had the passport and all these documents. >> irene trusted her we don't know where she is, but we pray for her the biggest injustice is that there's no crime. they don't know where the woman is. they manufactured a crime. >> when my partner and i went to interview kenny kimes, i said, this kid is the boy next door. clean cut, good looking young man very intelligent, very well-spoken.

>> i was at ucsb college student. i had a lot of friends. i had a fun life. >> he started to get emotional and i thought that he was going to start to talk to us about irene silverman. however he changed on a dime. he became stone cold and he asked for an attorney. as hard as we tried were forthcoming with any information in regards to the disappearance of irene silverman our first concern, of course is the welfare of mrs. silverman. >> and if there's any possibility that she is in fact, unharmed, that's what we're concerned about your son and this woman was what? i met irene in 1990 for equitable life insurance. man had invited me to new york, and i met her. very friendly. she called me in 1996 and told me that she was worried and that she wanted to sell her apartment, and she knew that i

had a lot of connections and could i help her? and i said i'd be happy to. >> did you eventually rent it or buy it? no. your son lived there. >> we did not rent the apartment police say the mother and the artists. >> authorities think they may learn more about the crimes from evidence found in their car. >> we located a green lincoln continental. the car that they paid for with the bad check. >> we sent down. one of the best crime scene people this detective spent 24 and 32 hours painstakingly fingerprints hair samples, blood testing every inch of the car because right now, it's our feeling that irene silverman may have been transported in that car are happening all over the world, things that can make our lives better. >> that's the goal of my podcast to try and find the secrets to a longer and happier and healthier life. and then we

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absolutely free. text love to 321321 today. have i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn me was where is irene was, all right something to do with irene's disappearance but as far as arresting them for irene silverman, more work had to be done. >> the fact of the matter is the more we looked into the crimes the more we found and the more complex the case became. >> that was just the tip of the iceberg

background checks as far as kenny was concerned. >> he had one prior arrest down in florida, but then we had santee. we found multiple aliases. 11 prior arrests sante kimes has a string of arrests dating back to 1961. one was for stealing a mink coat down in washington, d.c. at some kind of high end party. another time, she was arrested for slavery in two different states how does someone in 1985 get arrested for slavery very flamboyant. she looked like elizabeth taylor. she would even get mistaken for her and would sign autographs, which, of course, she loved. >> she was a very charismatic person effervescent she was

very very exciting for the outsider looking in. we were living the life she wanted money and had anxiety around money. she was obsessed with getting it and spending it. >> she was a very accomplished shoplifter and she had a lot of techniques for getting away with it we drove a lot of nice cars, but none were paid for her millionaire that she's going to lock down. his name is kenneth kimes. >> he's a very successful motel developer. >> ken kimes was a self-made multi-millionaire. he was divorced. he had a son and a daughter. and 17 years older than santee. but he was intrigued by her. >> my mother could make any man in the room feel like the most

important man on the planet. and ken ate it up. >> his favorite color was white she always dressed in white from that moment on. he loved the scent of gardenia. she walked around in a cloud of gardenia perfume. she thought of herself as irresistible. >> santee would mold herself to be his dream girl. she's seducing him, babying him she's keeping him drunk she's filling his cocktail glass over and over and then on the flip side he's terrified of her. >> sometimes her personality was fearsome on the good side and the bad side. you never knew ken recognizes who santee is suspicious of her. ken also was fairly paranoid man, but he's also kind of cheap for a millionaire he didn't like paying for stuff. >> it was his money, and he knew it. that was his power and

he knew that if mom had access to it, he'd lose his power and that's why he made sure that my mom never had a credit card and never had a checkbook. never had access to the money santee was was born. this baby is her lockdown millionaire baby. he can't leave her now because she's had his son, who she names kenneth kareem kimes ken wanted a staff because what's more rich person than having a staff? so they would drive down to mexico or central america to find girls from poor families who didn't speak a lot of english, and they would present them with this amazing offer. this american dream. and we're going to pay you so much money that you can send money

home to your family. and then they would put the girls in the trunk and drive back over the border. when they arrived, the nightmare would start. >> they were being kept locked in rooms they worked seven days a week. >> she never paid them a cent. she would say, if you go to the police they're going to rape you. she poured boiling water on one of them. she had another one with a coat hanger. she had a gun that she wasn't afraid to wave around. one of them did eventually manage to escape and run to the authorities. >> suspect sante kimes and her husband were arrested for violating u.s. slavery laws for smuggling and abusing four central american women from san diego to las vegas ken takes a plea deal, but sante does go to trial for the slavery charge. >> sante was sentenced to five years. however after three years, she was released

million civil suit against her and ken. >> sante eventually gets her insurance company to pay it how coercion, threats she actually was threatening one of the ceos of one of the insurance companies and they found a dead raven in the front seat of his car. that's what she could do >> irene was still missing so as we're looking for irene herself, we learned more and more about sante and kenny kimes. >> police say in new york city, kenneth kimes and his mother may have been scheming to defraud the wealthy former socialite. police in los angeles have a similar suspicion about the couple. in a murder case david kazdin was a friend of kenneth kimes senior. >> they had some business ventures together and that's

how the connection grew between sante and david. >> i first met david slash business relationship, i would say. david was very sharp, very quick, good sense of humor he had come from new york, so he had what in california we would call a new york attitude when david wanted to know something, he asked you you available and i said, sure. we went out to lunch. he said, you remember sante kimes? he said, i have a little issue going on. a few years ago, i left her and her husband put my name on a piece of property on a house over in las vegas. she didn't want it in her name, he said. so i let her put my name on it and now i find out that my name has been forged on some loan documents and as if this isn't shady enough, the house burns down and there is so much

gasoline on it that the arson investigating dogs are just going wild. he said these people will do anything 14th. >> david's body was found in a dumpster by lax. he had a gunshot wound in the neck and no shoes. and his green jaguar was found parked a few blocks away. >> i was contacted by lapd and i think my first response was i think i know who your first suspect should be but by the time they contacted me, i think maybe shanti was already in new york of paul atreides, we founded a sisterhood while you're

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one of the cases was with a man named elmer holmgren. back in 1991. whole room admitted setting fire to a residence belonging to the kimes and admitted he had been paid $3,000 by the kimes to set that fire. >> sante had asked him to do that so they could collect the insurance money on the house wherever sante had owned property, there was the whiff of arson insurance fraud. he was interviewed by atf they were going to have him wear a wire. he calls the atf the night before and says, hey we got to change it because i found out what's going on. they know i'm talking to you, elmer is going to report sante and somehow sante finds this out. so she says, let's go on a trip elmer hallgrim decided to go away with sante and kenneth kimes senior. elmer has a really bad feeling about this,

and he tells his son, look, if you don't hear from me in three days, go to the authorities and nobody ever hears from elmer, ever again. >> i believe that sante was definitely responsible for elmer holmgren's disappearance and probably murder the chances of finding irene silverman alive were slim to none. the chief of detectives would call every day. what's going on? so the pressure was on especially when you have the suspects in custody. we had an entire room full of evidence police say they found a mountain of evidence in the suspect's green town car. >> and in a gym bag that was stored at the plaza hotel. >> there was an unknown fluid that was determined to be a date rape drug syringes, rubber gloves, guns, wigs and the

suspects handwritten notes detailing their alleged crime notebooks journals of what they'd done, what they planned to do, shopping lists such as buy milk, large garbage bags stun gun two masks from the movie scream, a number of blank social security cards and blank power of attorney forms but the most important piece of evidence was the forged deed with irene silverman's name on it. once we recovered that forged deed, we knew we had motive right there. >> they were intending to transfer mrs. silverman's multimillion dollar townhouse to themselves in fact, mrs. kimes posed as mrs. silverman to get one of the documents notarized santi, dressed in wigs, a hat, played the part of a frail woman. it would be comical if it wasn't so tragic

enthralled with this case. it was everywhere. >> the tabloids just loved it. they were calling them the grifters from los angeles. >> mommie and clyde. >> it was dragon lady. >> people were just fascinated by it attorneys representing the mother and son team say their clients have been wrongly linked to the disappearance it seems that the public now has an impression that these individuals are responsible for the disappearance of this elderly woman, and there isn't any good hard reliable evidence. >> this is a case of a witch hunt and persecution by reason. >> the obvious question is why you and your son? >> because we just happen to be there at the apartment and they made the worst mistake in history. i mean, there is no crime there's no body i was

working in new york city as a private detective. >> this was my first murder case they were held on rikers, and santi would be paraded in wearing cuffs and immediately, even with the handcuffs, she began to flirt with her lawyer matthew weissman. >> oh you're so wonderful to come. i'm so delighted to see you. she was like the grand dame about to call the butler and bring champagne santi was a enormously gifted individual. >> she had the gift of gab and intelligence. she was very intelligent. >> stop it santi used her charm on everyone. >> it was constant seduction it was leaning forward and saying c.c., you're the only person who understands the case. >> the lawyers are idiots. >> they don't get it you are the one to bring justice to this, which is the greatest

miscarriage of justice in the american history evidence in question, we knew we had overwhelming evidence to take this case to the district attorney's office. but there was a huge problem for nypd when it came to charging kenny and santi with irene's murder, which is that they couldn't find irene's body they couldn't find a scrap of physical evidence. >> i felt that they are 1,000% guilty. >> the problem was, how do we prove that they did it were being held hostage. that was being led across the embassy compound. people were running up to me shouting, death to america the iran hostage crisis, how it really happened. >> next sunday at nine on cnn, we can be who will be the next hero of the year? find out on

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while waiting in a car while santi ran into a bank. >> ken died of an aneurysm. took about 15 seconds to die and afterwards she couldn't find a will he only has this old will that gives everything to his first two children. >> from a previous marriage santi decided to keep him alive the checks and make the withdrawals. he had money in various banks all around the world. she was forging checks and getting money out of these various accounts so whenever anyone would call and ask to speak to her husband, santi would say he was traveling. he was in the shower or he had laryngitis kenny doesn't find out for three months that his dad is dead. but ken's two

children from that previous marriage don't find out for about two years. >> the difference in the relationship between mom and kenny from the time before ken died to afterwards incomparable. they were two totally different people. >> and he suddenly becomes very, very close to his mother. >> she encourages him to drop out of college in 96. and this is when they really become partners in crime. literally as part of our investigation, we did come across some information about them being involved in a homicide in the bahamas bahamas on the beach, the bahamas had an appeal to kenny because of the offshore banking. santi and kenny are trying to get money

>> but the problem was the bank was going belly up little suspicious with certain transactions. >> kenny and santi took the banker to dinner the banker was never seen again accused of the murder of 82 year old millionaire irene silverman. santi and kenny are finally slapped with this huge indictment. 84 counts. it's a huge circumstantial case against them. and so they're finally charged with second degree murder of irene silverman i felt more and more confident in each day. >> and so did the district attorneys that this is worth a shot

and kenny did an interview with 60 minutes steve kroft. well, i would describe myself as a mom. i was married to a wonderful man. he was a big old irishman. kenny looks a lot like him. >> i would say that i'm a son of a very wonderful, beautiful mom. i think she's a beautiful person spiritually and intellectually and physically many people have suspected or alleged that it was a sexual relationship. >> they held hands throughout the entire interview. it was very, very strange. >> kenny is a momma's boy and that's how i looked at all of that. >> their trial starts in 2000. on valentine's day they wanted to be tried together of that house. >> how did they get her out? if they got her out?

>> not just that. there was no blood evidence and no body, but there's wasn't even a trace. not a trace. >> the strongest pieces of evidence for the prosecution was irene silverman's id being recovered from sante and kenneth kimes in addition to the forged deed, the mansion was worth millions and millions. the sale price was so low as to be laughable, but it was supposed to be transferring ownership challenging thing in terms of the defense. the prosecution referred to the notebooks as a roadmap to the crime. everything santi and kenny wanted to do thought they should do in order to ideally get irene's mansion. but ultimately kill irene. >> they also recorded phone conversations that they made to

irene, listening to those cassettes. we learned that they apparently tapped into the phone lines and they were able to listen in on irene's conversations. they tried to get irene's social security number. she knew something was up. she did not provide them with that social security number and that was evidence that was on the tape. santi insisted that they were being framed. the evidence was being planted. the police were corrupt. >> i used to believe in this country. i don't believe in this country anymore. americans are endangered. trust me it can happen to you. >> the prosecution had over 100 witnesses at the trial that testified. >> and the defense had one. nobody could say they had seen santi and kenny when they were purportedly dealing with irene silverman. >> but santi wanted to testify that judge stopped me from taking the stand.

>> we had a defense. we were ready to tell a brainwashed jury what happened past of arson and shoplifting. >> but particularly the slavery charge there was no defense. >> all the jury had heard were lies today in manhattan. >> a jury found sante and kenneth kimes guilty. >> kenny came down the hall and his face was gray. he never thought they would be convicted. >> the eight women and four men finding sante and kenneth kimes guilty of murder, robbery eavesdropping, weapons possession and forgery, among other charges. >> kenneth and his mother were each sentenced to more than 100 years in prison appeal? the only reason i think i'm alive is that i must prove

his innocence. >> but they were facing another murder charge. >> and unlike the irene silverman trial in la, they had a body coming to cnn this fall. >> pros and cons list pro, hosted by roy wood jr.. >> pro with amber ruffin. >> pro with michael ian black. oh okay. what are the cons? >> we could run out of news by then that would never happen. or could it >> no. oh. we're good. world's still on fire. >> it's so bad out there. >> thank goodness. >> have i got news for you? saturday at nine on cnn and stream next day on max. >> i feel like new sunglasses

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>> what's the new york case was over with sante and kenneth kimes now had to face murder charges out in california for the killing of david kazhdan. >> we all knew california was a death penalty case, and they would have been the first mother and son to face the death penalty kimes did an interview at an upstate prison called dannemora i was a freelance producer at court tv on october 10th, 2000. i had a planned interview with kenneth kimes and right away i noticed there was something really off about him. he was acting very strange, very fidgety. >> and, um, if i may ask, uh, could we take a break and maybe 5 or 10 minutes? >> um how about two minutes? sure. >> better. what do you need a break for? >> oh, just a little. put a little water on my face and then he said to me, i'm really

me something? the only thing left in the vending machines was a snickers bar and a bottled water. >> and i handed him these things and before i knew it he had his arm >> and he said to me, this is a hostage situation. >> you harris-walz one blank cameraman that he took a ballpoint pen and held the pen to her neck. the guards were watching. no one knew what to do. >> he demanded to be extradited to canada. i really didn't think i was going to make it out that day alive. i was extremely terrified he threatened to kill her for four hours. i cried with him and i finally said to him, do you know how to pray? and he looked at me and he said, yes, like he really wanted to. so he actually said the lord's prayer together, and it gave me lots of comfort and i saw it gave him comfort one of the hostage

negotiators said to him, okay, kenneth, let's end this now. this is my business card and kenneth went to grab it and i found that moment and just took advantage and ran. and i heard everybody just pounce on him. and i just thanked god that he had let me go angeles times announced that kenny was going to confess he was going to betray his mother, something he had always been terrified to do trained not to do. he appealed to the l.a. da and said, i will tell every detail of the murder of irene silverman and the murder of david kasten. if you take the death penalty off the table for me and my mother i was in the courtroom when he described the

murders and i think my heart stopped i had heard this person proclaim his innocence. thousands of times, and here he was talking about gruesome details 5th, he left his apartment. >> he met irene out by the office and asked her for a newspaper. i think he used that opportunity to see was irene alone? kenny then returns to his apartment, and now she happens to be standing right outside his door. >> kenny flings open the door, grabs irene, and pulls her inside, and santi yells at kenny, do it! and so kenny puts his hands around irene's throat and he strangles her to death

the trunk of his car and driving her out to new jersey, where he said he dumped the body in a dumpster kenny confesses a result of david wanting to go to the police because of a $280,000 loan that was taken out on his name. >> kenny drove to david carsons house, and david carson had known kenny for years because he'd been friends with his father, friends with santi. he opened the door, said hello to kenny invited him in for a cup of coffee and kenny shot him in the back of the head. >> on the way home, after disposing of david kasdan's body, kenny decides this calls for flowers. he spends $100 on a bouquet of flowers. he goes back to his mother say, mom, we did it kenny also admitted

the bahamas. kenny confessed to drowning him in a bathtub and throwing his body into the caribbean. finally, the truth was out. santi was softly crying and then kenny was manacled and trying to stop the tears on his face i don't think that kenny ever turned and looked at his mother during this recitation of events sent back to new york state and kenny was kept in california and they weren't allowed to contact each other ever again over the years, i've been involved in about 1300 homicide investigations i'd say it's the most complex and strange mother and son murdering people it boggles the mind why do they do it? she's a multi-millionaire wife this pathological it's a

sickness her answer to resolve things was violence. >> that's the way she took care of loose ends. >> santi was the mastermind. >> it was her idea to kill saeed. it was her idea to kill david. she was the one who found out about irene silverman's existence. and put this scheme in motion. >> she has ruined countless lives, including her own son's. >> mom was evil from day one, no doubt about it. kenny made her more dangerous. kenny didn't care about people and put the two together. there were that lethal sante kimes died at the bedford hills prison in 2014. >> she was 79. kenneth kimes is currently serving life without parole in a