tv. the as seen on tv cabinet. president-elect trump is not just picking personnel for his administration based on who is central casting, but he's putting them together quite literally based on who has already been cast on the small screen. there's pete hegseth, the pentagon pick and fox morning show host sean duffy, a former congressman who was also a reality tv personality. tulsi gabbard another fox talking head. mike huckabee, a former governor who also had a fox contract, and mehmet oz, the doctor who with a syndicated show on which he sold americans controversial products. so the question is who's next? the whole idea is to get all of us tuned in. thank you very much for watching newsnight. laura coates live starts right now

2029. the unprecedented move now being suggested in his own hush money case and paging dr. oz. donald trump taps his friend for a new job inside the administration. this is the drama around. his pick seems to ramp up to all new levels. plus millions of users ditching elon musk's ex for blue sky the company's ceo joins me for her first television interview tonight on laura coates live out. i want you to circle this date january 20th, 2029. i know it seems like a lifetime away because it, frankly, is. but stick with me because as of right now, that could theoretically be when a judge considers sentencing donald trump and his hush money case, the end of trump's second term, which is four years, two months

and one day from right now. but who's counting? manhattan dango judge juan merchan that even after a jury found him guilty of 34 counts on may 30th of this year. january 20th, 2020 9th may very well be how it all plays out. but should it? a freeze of the case all right everyone, chill chill chill decide. does the iceman cometh? trump's team wants an outright dismissal of the entire case. they argue that his conviction on 34 counts of falsifying business records should be thrown out because he's about to become the president white house and, well, because of that supreme court presidential immunity decision. but bragg is putting his foot down. he says maybe justice deferred, but not dismissed. dismissed. apparently is

entirely off his table. so now judge merchan finds himself between a rock and a hard place. delay sentencing until 2029. say that again and dole out the punishment to a former president. more than four years removed from the verdict and maybe over a decade from the actual alleged conduct or dismiss the conviction and go against the d.a. and the manhattan jury that found him guilty. we're going to find out what the judge decides to do in the weeks ahead. but one thing is certainly for sure, it is a huge turnaround for trump's legal fortunes. on top of the unknown outcome in new york now, the two federal cases against him are now winding down and the georgia case has been delayed indefinitely as trump and his co-defendants tried to remove the fulton county da. fani willis recently reelected from the case. now trump is rewarding the allies that stood by his side many of them trotted in and around that manhattan courthouse to defend him. among them, jd vance the

vice president elect. well that worked out well for him. matt gaetz, trump's pick for attorney general mike waltz the national security advisor pick doug burgum up for interior secretary. i'm seeing a pattern here. are you vivek department of government efficiency. pronounced doge by the way. now, trump is even rewarding his lawyers emil bove and todd blanche both have been picked for high ranking posts. you guessed it in the department of justice. the show of force, by the way, wasn't just a visual show of force, it was vocal to what's going on. >> inside that courtroom is a threat to american democracy, ladies and gentlemen. this is a corrupt judge. these are corrupted witnesses. this is a corrupt prosecution that belies any sense of the facts or the law. this isn't justice this is politics. it's political warfare. one thing that we've

all known is that this was a sham trial. but when you have an opportunity to see it up close and personal, you can see it's actually a scam trial. this is a sham. this is not the united states of america. this is well to be clear, trump went through the same trial process as anyone else charged with these crimes would have, and he was found guilty unanimously by 12 jurors. >> but of course, a much larger number rendered a much different verdict at the ballot box joining me now, democratic congressman dan goldman, a former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york. he served as lead counsel in the first impeachment of president donald trump. good to have you here congressman. i have to get your take on the decision to possibly freeze the sentencing and hold it in that hush money case in new york to potentially after the presidential term, four years from now. what's your take?

>> well, it's an unprecedented situation, and that's an unprecedented request. it is very unusual to have a delay of that length. i'm i certainly have never heard of it. but on the flip side, it's also very unusual to have a convicted felon who's becoming the president of the united states the reality is that donald trump, one way or another, is going to evade accountability for all of his misconduct charged in four indictments until at least after his four year presidency and that is a travesty of justice that is really unfortunate. not for any reason that i think, but only because this is how our system of justice works. and grand juries are involved. juries are involved, as in the new york case, and no one should be above the law but it appears donald trump is above the law.

>> he would be, what, 82? >> or in his early 80s? four years from now do you think he should be sentenced four years from now? if he's not sentenced right now? >> well, in the ordinary course, in a case like this, in new york, he would likely get probation. >> so why not do that now if you're the judge, if that's the likelihood, why kick that can down the road if it wouldn't actually have an impact on his ability to govern as the president anyway so that is a possibility. >> there are if once you are sentenced and a judgment is entered, then you become a convicted felon. so he is technically not yet a convicted felon, but he would be after being sentenced. and there are restrictions to where convicted felons can can fly, can travel to. there are additional restrictions on a convicted felon and as president of the united states i would think

that we do not want to have those restrictions on our president. >> you have to imagine if you are looking at the jury process, the request to forget, just delay sentencing, but to dismiss the case outright because he's now the president elect. how does that appeal or convey a certain message to a jury pool or our country that says there's a guilty verdict, but now you can dismiss the case? >> i worry less about that because cases are are frequently overturned. jury verdicts are often overturned because of a misreading of the law or a bad jury instruction, or in some cases, the law is interpreted differently. but what i worry about here is the combination of the supreme court's opinion granting presidents broad immunity and

yes, there's conduct that he was charged with that he is now going to evade accountability for. but he also now has carte blanche to commit whatever crimes he wants as president in the next four years. and if he is going to direct his attorney general to do something wrong, do something illegal or perhaps to say, well, i'm going to pardon this person because i just received $1 million. he's immune and that is what's scary, because over the next four years, an emboldened authoritarian immune, donald trump is a real danger. >> assuming that it's the official acts as you described. speaking of the attorney general pick, i mean, congressman, former congressman matt gaetz is the person he's choosing. we understand tonight, trump is not reconsidering that pick even in light of controversial allegations that he has denied involving sex with minors. the doj did not pursue prosecution

the ethics committee, though, is going to meet tomorrow. they have provided a report they have crafted one. don't you think the public, if not the public the senate at the very least should see this report? >> absolutely. this should be a part of whatever the senate evaluates to determine whether or not this individual is competent qualified and able to serve as the most senior law enforcement officer in our country and it is dangerous to think about someone like matt gaetz, who clearly has expressed a vendetta against the department of justice because of his own investigation, has talked about eliminating the fbi altogether, wants to clearly tear that department down and burn it to the ground. the notion that he would run that department is

preposterous and very dangerous. so i personally think that um, enough of this is going to come out and likely the report or the witnesses are going to come forward and it's hard to imagine that matt gaetz gets through. but this is where trump's strategy really works out, because he overloads the zone with absurdity. and so matt gaetz might be the one who withdraws but tulsi gabbard has highly questionable interactions with assad. and putin, and she would be overseeing our intelligence community. rfk jr. is a vaccine denier overseeing our health and human services doctor oz is now with cms pete hegseth you know who was a brave warrior in war but has never held a senior position? is going to run the department of defense and it

becomes so many that even if one pulls out donald trump thinks that he can push the rest through. and so it is really incumbent on the senate republicans to stand up to each individual cabinet appointment. and evaluate them on their own not as part of a package. do you anticipate they will? i think if anyone will, it's the senate the senate, republicans under john thune, and i think john thune cares very much about the senate. i think he cares very much about the institution. i think he cares very much about advice and consent and i am i remain optimistic that john thune will stand up for the institution of the senate and the rule of law and make sure that whomever is appointed and nominated and ultimately confirmed is qualified for the job. >> congressman dan goldman, thank you so much for joining. thank you well, as you heard, the congressman say, president

elect donald trump picked tv personality doctor mehmet oz to lead the centers for medicare and medicaid services he's, of course, no stranger to americans having hosted a television show that at times led him to make controversial and some bogus health claims what i believe is one of the most important discoveries we've made to help you burn fat faster green coffee bean extract i actually do personally believe in the in the items that i talk about in the show. >> i passionately study them. i recognize that oftentimes they don't have the scientific muster to present as fact oz politics in 2022 when he ran and lost to john fetterman for senate in pennsylvania. >> now, if he's confirmed, he'd be in charge of an agency that oversees health and insurance programs want to bring in national political correspondent for politico, meridith mcgraw

democratic strategist chuck rocha also cnn political commentator and former trump campaign adviser david urban, a commentator as well. good to have all of you here. let me begin with you david. trump is saying that dr. oz and i'm quoting here will cut waste and fraud within our country's most expensive government agency. so are big cuts to medicaid the right thing for republicans to focus on now? >> look, i don't know if they are. i think, you know, the government can always do do better i liked his opponent, john fetterman's response. right. if he's going to preserve medicare and medicaid, i'm voting for the dude. that's a heck of an if. but it is. listen, preserving and cutting and streamlining and making sure things run better. i'm not sure cuts are in medicare and medicaid are what are needed right. but we'll see. i mean improved, but i don't think, you know, the seniors and people who are on, uh, you know getting assistance need to have

their, their, their health care cut. >> i mean, chuck, on that point, you're talking about what for medicaid coverage in the u.s., this is in 2023. you got 4 in 10 children. you've got you have 6 in 10 non-elderly adults in poverty 41% of births in the us and 5 in 8 nursing home residents, according to the kaiser family foundation. i think dave is right about the word cut being something very difficult for people to get on board with but there are other synonyms somehow going to make it better. if the whole goal is efficiency. >> there's a lot of people out there that have a lot of anxiety, and these the numbers that you just put out, there is a reason for that. there's a lot of people who are teetering on the edge, and when i ran campaigns this cycle and we lost a lot of campaigns, we won a lot of campaigns but donald trump won the presidency, and i've had republicans tell me all week, we won. this is what we get to do. we get to this. they go to the polls, go to the winner. they can pick who they want. well, america voted because they feel anxious. they didn't trust the democrats at the presidential level. they trust them at some senate races and some congressional races so

now there's a real chance for a distinguished difference. we get to say, this is what you voted for. this is somebody if they ever wanted to cut these things that you're talking about with medicare medicaid, these folks that are teetering who need a little bit of assistance, lots of working americans out there that have a lot. i'll go back to this anxiety. this is where you distinguish at a party between this is their values and this is ours. when things like this start to go down, because a lot of people voted for change, maybe harris wasn't there changing. but i don't think this, in my opinion, is a change they wanted. >> but i would just say real quickly, i would say you know, on the on the larger theme of efficiency, i think that you'll be looking for you'll be looking for efficiencies way to deliver these things more efficiently. perhaps find savings that way. and that's the overall reaching thing with with with with elon and others. right so not not cutting but efficiencies. >> we'll see what that doge organization or agency might have. but the mandate comes back to this idea of a mandate. meredith. and while economy and maybe the reallocation of resources to more effectively align with

what the voters want you also have about his picks, his nominees, attorney general pick matt gaetz, the newly resigned member of congress, congresswoman marjorie taylor greene, who is a gaetz ally, is warning that she would expose all of republicans sexual misconduct claims if gaetz's report is released, saying, if we're going to dance let's all dance in the sunlight i'll make sure we do. how is that going to end for republicans on the hill? >> well, i think you're continuing to hear from republicans on the hill. you know, look, we are in charge of, you know, consent and advising, and we want to get all the information in front of us before we get decisions. you know, i'm sure they're going to be some republicans on the hill who are going to be listening to calling for things like recess appointments. but at the same time, you know, they're going to want to get all the information in front of them so that they can make these choices. >> she's not the only one who's making these claims as well. you heard earlier today with my colleague boris on a congresswoman anna paulina luna also saying this about exposing

those who might not be going along to get along. listen to this i will say that for the senators that are coming forward and stating that they need to read this testimony, let's look into these people's stock portfolios and how they're becoming multi-millionaires off of $175,000 a year. and of course, that reference to money also followed up by the attorney representing two women who have made these allegations about the amount of money that was paid to them. you know, this becomes an increasingly controversial pick not just for the allegations that he has denied, but because of the threats for those who do not go along. >> you know, i think for all of the candidates that trump has put forward so far, matt gaetz seems to be skating on the thinnest ice, not only with republicans on the hill, but even some of trump's allies who recognize that with this ethics report hanging over him, it's going to make things a little bit harder and, you know, for some of these republicans who are going to be making confirmation votes, who might be up for reelection it just poses a greater challenge.

>> it's funny that luna was the one saying that congresswoman luna excuse me, is being floated as a department of labor secretary, like all of these folks are to the beginning monologue falling in line behind somebody. and again, i've won a lot of races and i've been the one out there saying, look, we won. you got to get in line. this is what happens when you win. but there's also democrats. listen to me. a way to contrast here and say now they voted for that. but now you can contrast on what your values are compared to theirs. >> i just say that's everybody exhale. the senate is a senate is six year terms right senators think of themselves as the upper body. they're different than the house. we can agree on that. and i think that they don't they're not going to cede any of their power. you saw that in the in the discussions about having recess appointments. i think they're going to have a full and fair investigation and vetting of all these candidates and they'll be up or down votes and people are going to, you know, the president's going to get i think the president's entitled to most of his picks, and he'll get most of his picks through, and they'll be there'll be a few that don't make it. and that will be based on the facts that the people hear. >> well, you're right, i've these senators ever fall victim

to persuasion at all. at at all. you must be right. >> they got six years. a lot of these folks just think they're going to. i think you'll be surprised. america. >> look his his mug. the laura coates live one is half full everyone. meredith. thank you so much. chuck. david. stand by ahead. does the left need to rethink how it's talking about this man? elon musk, one democrat says it's time to see him as more than a punching bag the panel weighs in on tonight's take plus, should daniel penny take the stand in his chokehold trial? the latest on his defense team's thinking >> astute political analysis. >> we have questions how biden's set the right path. >> stayed awake. why did trump pull out of 60 minutes? i love pulling out. >> this is a news network. >> have i got news for you saturday at 9:00 on. >> we really don't want people to think of feeding food like

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jim garrity at the washington post, who wonders if democrats should stop recoiling at everything elon musk does. >> he writes, what if instead of attempting to paint musk as a bond villain, the trump opposition cheered on musk's ideas that they like and well criticized the ones they don't? what if democrats in particular, gave musk credit for an accomplishment every now and then? wouldn't that make criticism of his other moves all the more credible and compelling take today's launch of spacex's starship. it's the largest and most powerful rocket ever built. a rocket musk eventually wants to use to take human beings to mars that's the super heavy booster coming down back down to earth, splashing down in the gulf of mexico. remember just last month that booster came back down from space and was able to dock itself, but today spacex said conditions were not, quote

favorable to replicate that very landing. in the future, they hope to land these boosters so they can be refurbished and flown again. donald trump was on hand today with musk to see it all in real time in the latest example of just how close the two men seem to have become i want to bring in teddy schleifer. he's a reporter for the new york times who covers musk chuck rocha and david urban are back with me as well. teddy, let me begin with this. i mean, president elect trump was with his new bestie today at that launch. they've been together, frankly, nearly every single day since the election. but look, musk as you know, used to be a democrat what exactly brought him to the right and right beside trump with covid. >> um, you know, during the pandemic, elon musk really bristled at covid restrictions on tesla in california, where he lived at the time, and he moved to texas and he got surrounded by a much more conservative social circle, people who are obsessed with

issues like immigration and crime. and you can just see this on elon's own twitter feed it does not require you know, piercing, uh, behind enemy lines and learning what elon is telling his friends. you see it publicly with what he tweets. >> um, it's true. it's really in front of you. most of the time talking to bring you in here because congressman richie torres wrote about musk on x, his site. he actually owns, saying. but for spacex the u.s. would be losing the space race against china. but for tesla, the ev industry in the u.s. would be a shell of itself the country thrives on intrepid innovators like elon musk why antagonize them so intensely that you drive him into trump's corner and make a permanent enemy out of him politics should be a game of addition, not subtraction. does congressman torres have a point to you? >> yeah, it's a point. he has a point in that in politics overall, in my opinion, i've sit here across from republicans all day and twice on sundays a lot of times and said, look there's a lot more we have in common in part, but we make a living. i make a

living tearing down republicans with tv ads and talking about all the crazy things that i think that they do when at the end of the day, there's lots of things. elon musk is a great example, and i agree with congressman torres there that if you look at some of the things that have happened, the spacex things is one good example. there's other places where technologies, i'll tell you this go to your local d.c. government website and try to figure out how to get your trash picked up on a day off. and i can tell you that if he can come over and fix the d.c. websites and get some of our services fixed, i'm all in for elon something as simple as that. i still think they're working off of windows 13. >> doge is going to attack that next. that's going to be first. the federal government, dc government is much more complex. >> i mean, by the way, speaking of what he posts and musk, as you know, has trump's ear at least beside it. and david over the ex he posted about argentina's president cutting import taxes saying good move. could he be influential on areas that are not just maybe part of the bromance, but things that a lot of economists think might be a bad idea? >> i would just say that, you know, elon musk is not

infallible right here you know, elon musk was pushing for somebody else to be secretary of transportation. and donald trump picked somebody completely different so i would say, you know, he's he's influential 100%, but it's not dispositive his support is not dispositive teddy trump became pretty infatuated with musk toward the end of the campaign cycle. >> we all saw, and he repeated that same story about the booster being caught. and that didn't actually happen today. i do wonder, since he was there watching and the result didn't occur trump's view of musk look, i mean trump is mesmerized by elon's accomplishments in business. >> i mean has not gone to many rocket launches in his day. he does not know a ton about manufacturing or, you know, certainly not rocket science. so musk has has something that trump does not, which is a sophisticated understanding of science and technology. and from people around trump, he's impressed like obviously, you

know, it would have been more impressive if they achieved the desired result. but trump is mesmerized mesmerized by trump. >> david, i don't necessarily know trump to be somebody who loves to share the spotlight and limelight. how long is this going to last? this idea of this bromance? >> listen, there's one president of the united states >> it's one elon musk. >> it's donald trump. well, they have different skill sets, right elon musk wants to be president. i don't think the president wants to be elon musk. i think they're going to coexist in a universe. just just just just well look, elon musk is an incredible individual who's redefined this. you know, this our space program, right? if it wasn't for elon musk space and we're we're begging elon musk to go get him right right. because nobody else can do it. i mean it is almost like you know, cartoonish importance in the globe. and so but but donald trump is uniquely singular in his

this planet and you ask somebody what they think of donald trump, they have an opinion right? no matter where it is, africa, the subcontinent, you pick a place they know donald trump somewhere. >> i'll say this is that elon musk is the richest man in the world and lessons in life would tell us every time that we've waited for the richest man or woman to bail us out because they're the richest one. it's always bit workers in the backside. and i'll just say that they're not always the most worker friendly people friendly. and you can tell he's a nerd. god bless him. he's a nerd. most scientists like that are nerds. if he can come get the abandoned couch off the street in front of my house with a 311 call, then i'll have a conversation. >> he sounds like john fetterman that's a john fetterman. >> sounds very specific i mean, nice endorsement josh picked up in front of my house. hopefully it's not a sectional. thank you everyone still ahead, our first glimpse at daniel penny police interview. this is his defense begins to make their case. the big question for everyone is will he take the stand? should he take the stand? our trial

team gets into that next. and later a cnn exclusive. the ceo behind blue sky, the new competitor to elon musk, joins me for her very first television interview >> food network has something for every kind of holiday for the confection perfectionist, for the competitive christmases, for the holiday magic, for the holiday baking championship. >> all new monday at 8:00 on food. >> the ups store wants to make this the best holiday season ever. no matter how you celebrate. we're the packet ship it, guarantee it, store the extra pair of hand, store the it has to get there in one piece. store we're the one stop right around the corner be unstoppable every way you holiday store visit the ups store.com/packing and get 20% off packing today lumify. >> it's kind of amazing. wow

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the ones you don't use with just a few taps. download the app today i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn >> that's what everyone wants to know tonight as daniel penny team considers whether he should take the stand in his own defense. the marine veteran is facing charges of manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide in connection to the subway chokehold. death of jordan neely. i want to bring in gloria pazmino, a cnn national correspondent. also here. elliot williams, a cnn legal analyst. gloria, let me begin with you. what are daniel penny

lawyers telling you about whether he will testify or not? >> well, laura they've been putting on a case for two days now. they have presented a number of character witnesses and a psychiatric expert. and today they said that they expect to call one more witness a medical expert. but i spoke to the defense team today, and they told me that they are still considering whether or not mr. penny will take the stand. his lawyers told me they have not ruled it out as of today. so we are expecting the defense to rest by the end of this week. most likely so we are going to be finding out very soon whether or not mr. penny takes the stand. now, there's a number of reasons why he should or should not do that but i imagine that his defense is weighing that exactly right now. remember, their defense so far has been justification. daniel penny

was going to attack people. therefore he felt the need to intervene and causation that the chokehold did not kill jordan penny, but rather a combination of factors that part of their defense has run into some issues in the last few days after the medical examiner said that the chokehold without a doubt according to her findings, had killed nealy elliot. >> we are still learning and waiting to see if they're going to actually have him testify what does that tell you? would you have him testify? >> i would not, and big picture, laura, of course, a defendant has a right not to testify under the constitution. you have the right to remain silent. literally that's what the cop shows. all say. most people think that if. if your liberty were on the line you would choose to testify to clear your name and defend yourself. it's very risky. and most defendants don't testify for a number of reasons. one,

everything. any statement you've made or given can be thrown back at you by the prosecution. you can be impeached, you can be undermined, and also confronted with some of the strengths of the prosecution's case. and you're giving them the opportunity to guide the questioning of you. it would be very risky this is a very emotional and sensitive case, and i would just think it's probably best to to leave it to the experts that they're calling these doctors and leave it at that. >> you never know how you present to a jury as well. if they look at you sympathetically or otherwise gloria, though a video was introduced into evidence of an interview between penny and police following the fatal chokehold of jordan neely. what did that video show? >> yeah, this is really interesting, laura, because elliot is right that so far this jury has only seen daniel penny sitting at the at the bench with his lawyers and they've seen him in the video that most of the public has seen of the altercation, the the struggle between him and jordan neely. but they also saw him in the video that we have

there on the screen and this is an interview between daniel penny and police detectives, which he did voluntarily. this was just hours after the incident and this is the only other time that we hear and we see penny talking and describing what happened. take a listen to just a portion of what the jury got to hear how long had he been on there before you intervened? >> i mean, he got on. he whipped his jacket off. that's i mean, usually i don't crackheads, you know what i mean? i just kind of let the do the thing. but then he started threatening people. >> once he starts doing that, that's when you try to subdue him. >> yes. i'm i'm not. i wasn't trying to like injure him. right. i'm just trying to keep him from hurting anybody else. he's threatening people. that's what you. that's what we learned in the marine corps. that's what you guys learn is when the cop as police officers

>> is what daniel penny told those officers. and you remember in the opening statements, the prosecution said, we don't believe that mr. penny wanted to kill neely. we just believe that he went too far. that's why it's a manslaughter and a criminally negligent homicide charge. you can see in the video, mr. penny refers to jordan neely as a crackhead they also talked about penny's disregard for neely's humanity and perhaps this video is something that may replay in the jury's minds. so if they put him on the stand, this is something that perhaps the defense could try to counter somehow. >> elliot, really quick we also heard from a medical expert who testified that jordan neely likely suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. what impact could this possibly have for the jury? >> it can cut both ways. the paranoid schizophrenia could suggest that the the folks were frightened of his behavior. he was having an episode at the time, and because of the fear

that people had in the train car possibly that could lay some predicate for penny's actions. now. it also makes him a more sympathetic victim. he was struggling with mental health issues, so it's hard to see how the jury will take it. a lot of people might have mental illness in their own family, so we'll just see really strong points. >> gloria elliot, thank you both so much are now jumping toward blue sky. could the social media company actually rival elon musk's platform? i'll ask the 33 year old executive in charge. blue sky ceo is here with me for her very first tv interview. that's next have i got news for you? >> saturday at nine on cnn. >> i forgot to wash my work shirt. >> just wear it again i added unstoppables now with odor blocker and it keeps our clothes fresh all day ooh, i'm gonna be feeling it at work today she smells so good i'm actually paying attention.

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sports on max earthquake in the social media universe alternative to x, the platform owned by elon musk. >> but what will take its place? well, among the possible competitors threads the platform started by instagram and facebook. mastodon a decentralized social media network. and then there's blue sky. it was born under x when it was called twitter, but blue sky is rapidly becoming the go to place for refugees from x. it is topped apple's app charts for nearly two weeks now, and you've likely seen celebrities announce that they are leaving x for blue sky like barbra streisand, who posted, quote, effective immediately. any comments? i post will be on blue sky and luke skywalker himself, mark hamill. he posted a fake newspaper with the headline mark hamill joins the blue sky a star wars icon takes

flight to new platforms for hope and unity. today, the platform announced it hit a major users. but it says a long way to go, of course, before it catches up to x and its 550 million monthly active users. joining me now in her first television interview jay graber, ceo of blue sky. jay, i'm really thrilled that you're here because people are leaning in fully on blue sky and what it really is. i have to ask you first about this decentralized platform what does that mean? >> yeah. >> so it means that it looks like a normal app. but behind the scenes there's a lot of different people who come in to create the experience. and it can have many more people come in and build it. so the difference is between having like a single house or like a lot of hotel where you go in, there's a lobby and then people are like building other units out back. and any developer or someone who can

code can come in and build a new you know, experience in the back and so also the best example i have is email is built on something called a protocol. that's just a service that connects two services. so if i have a gmail account and you have a yahoo account, i can email you and we can still talk. that's something that's decentralized. if everyone is just on one service, i can't email you or i can't message you from twitter to facebook. right? because those are centralized services i wonder what this past few weeks have been like for you. >> i mean, this has been so top of mind. a major headline for so many reasons, especially because there are a lot of people, celebrities included, who are flocking to blue sky and a lot of people joining. you're only 33 years old. you've got about what 20 employees or so? how are you managing the influx, the attention, what has this been like? >> yeah, i mean, it's super exciting. we've been scaling up. there's been about a million people joining a day for the past week, and we've

just been telling people how it works, showing them how it's different. and a lot of people are saying they're having a lot more fun here. they're having an experience where they're making friends online again and talking to people that is just something that they haven't experienced in a long time. and so we're growing that experience for more people. and then showing people what else you can do. people have come on and started building things like you know, an explorer that shows the whole network or a counter that shows the number of users coming in. >> i wonder about the tone because some people had been sort of fleeing x, so to speak, in order to have a different tone was that the goal for you in creating blue sky? it's not necessarily it many years in the works, frankly, but the tone and the environment and the community that you seek to create through blue sky is it intentionally distinct from, say, an x? >> well, our goal is to give can have fun and feel safe. and so we've already always focused a lot on trust and

safety, making sure that users have an ability to have an experience that's free from bots and harassment and spam and then, you know, that's, i think, really core to the experience but then beyond that, we want a place where people can express their creativity and so they can come on and, you know, explore a app store, basically of all these feeds. it's like a marketplace of feeds and then you can subscribe to the ones that you're interested in, sort of like subscribing to magazines. and so people who like cat pictures are just looking at the cat feed. so this lets people get really creative and discover their communities and find the places that they want to be within blue sky. >> how do you avoid a kind of echo chamber or is that not a concern it's more about giving people a way to productively engage and so making sure that, you know, it's an environment where discussions can happen and people can have different opinions, but people aren't getting harassed. >> and it's a place where, you know, people can split off and form their own communities, and it's really up to the user what they want to do. like if you want to tune in to everything

going on around the whole network and see the the most popular posts over the last 24 hours, you can do that. or you can go over to the forest feed or the moss feed and just look at really calm, relaxing nature pictures. so it depends on what kind of user you are you know, x has often been associated, particularly given elon musk to promote more right leaning content and i do wonder if blue sky given how it's sometimes described are you intending for it to be a kind of new resistance platform? we're really building it for everyone. and so it's built for people to take it into their own hands and evolve it the ways that they want. and so the goal is to give people all the tools all the code, all the ability to customize their experience. and then, you know, i think social media should be basically common infrastructure that society gets to use and evolve it as society evolves, building a more democratic form of social media to reflect a democratic society. >> sometimes society evolves, sometimes it devolves. i wonder what kind of guardrails are in

place to avoid having content that is either highly offensive, problematic or detracts from what your intention of this open community might lead to. >> yeah, so we have a stackable approach to moderation our head of trust and safety was working in moderation at twitter and then stayed on under x and then came over to us and so has experience with a lot of things at scale. and we've been making sure that the experience here stays a place where productive conversations can happen. and then people can layer on top of that. so it's stackable because anyone else can come in and also run a moderation service you are exponentially increasing your users by the day how many users do you expect to have say this time next year? it's hard to tell. i mean, you tell me. >> i mean, the world is telling you might be millions and millions and millions. how do you intend to monetize? >> oh, we're rolling out subscriptions and we're going to be building out a larger developer ecosystem and then providing services within that ecosystem. >> jay graber really fascinating. >> thank you so much for

joining. thank you up next, the emotional retirement from an all time great were being held hostage that was being led across the embassy compound. >> people were running up to me shouting death to america the iran hostage crisis how it really happened sunday at nine on cnn. >> i'm out here telling people how they can save money with experience. you look like someone who has a lot of subscriptions. i have a lot. >> too many. >> i'd say you can see your subscriptions all in one place and cancel the ones you don't like. dude, that's so easy. >> i actually need that. >> get started now with the experian app. >> patients who have sensitive teeth but also want whiter teeth. they have to make a choice. one versus the other. new sensodyne clinical white. it provides two shades whiter teeth, as well as providing 24 over seven sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf i used to think a holiday one stop shop is a myth. >> until i found michael's. oh,

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davis cup and i lost my my last one, so we closed the the circle rafah's achievements, but something it can maybe recreate james bond or should we say bond james bond? maybe. unless you ask ben affleck, here is his answer when asked if i was getting close to making its own version of the franchise i can write you excellent imitative imitative verse that sounds elizabethan. >> it cannot write you shakespeare the function of having two actors, or 3 or 4 actors in a room and the taste to discern and construct. that is something that currently entirely eludes ai's capability and i think will for a meaningful period of time. >> good point affleck. and lastly, tonight prince harry getting a neck tattoo from the country artist jelly roll really you give me a tattoo and

then you come and play the invictus games. >> that easy of a deal. all right screw it. let's go. >> let's do it. >> where do you want it we gotta go for the neck. >> the neck? i was thinking, like my lower back or my. >> nobody else doing this but me what a way to announce jelly roll as the headliner for the closing ceremony of next year's invictus games. >> it's the international adaptive sport tournament for injured veterans and service personnel the prince harry started back in 2014. don't worry the tattoo is fake hey everyone, thank you so much for watching. anderson cooper 360 starts right now >> the president elect stands by his choice for attorney general even as confidential files, including an accuser's deposition, are breached by a hacker and may become public. >> also tonight, touting his nine daytime emmys. trump pages >> medicare and medicaid, which covers nearly 150 million americans, and the kremlin