this country, and so we have to learn to coexist. can i say that by sending you and i like this side, can i get time served for being friends with him absolutely. hey. okay switch the mood. ashley that was great. i love that, okay? please don't cancel me black twitter i think da da da da i think bread stuffing is better than cornbread stuffing. you have to go home okay, now i i also think as a redeeming factor that canned cranberries are better than homemade. i absolutely do the literal best. i will also receive i agree anyone who and give me some good cornbread stuffing, i will take that as well. happy thanksgiving everyone okay, those were in fact hot

starts right now well tonight jack smith throws in the towel, ending the historic federal cases against donald trump as a new post-election blame game gets underway. >> but is everything as it seems? plus, trump fires the first shot in what could be a major trade war. today, one promise he just made that has three count them three countries and maybe your pocketbook on high alert. plus kamala harris for 2028. the vp tells allies she's keeping her options open. so why haven't we seen much of her since the election? is that what the democrats want? andrew yang weighs in tonight on laura coates live

that old rear view mirror and saying so long to jack smith, the special counsel read the writing on the wall. i mean, it wasn't that hard to read these cases weren't going to survive under a trump doj. so i guess in a way, he beat him to the punch. he officially dropped the two federal cases against trump today. that's a grand total of what 44 criminal charges from the january 6th and classified documents cases. now all gone. look, one way or another, this was inevitable under a trump doj after he won the election and appointed his own attorney general, special counsel obviously serves at the pleasure of the pleasure of the a.g.. did anyone really think that the incoming a.g., whoever it ends up being, may be pam bondi was going to ask jack smith to stay on? surely they remember jeff sessions right and several others and yes, trump did threaten to fire jack smith, but today's decision was actually smith's and smith's

alone. he says he is following long standing doj policy that says the doj cannot prosecute a sitting president. of course, he's not a sitting. he's a president elect. but that's a detail. you get the idea. but he is leaving behind one very clear message, smith writes in his filing on the january 6th case. this outcome is not based on the merits or strength of the case against the defendant. in other words he is standing by everything that he has already brought forward. he also asked both cases to be dismissed without prejudice, meaning that it's possible they could actually bring them again when trump is out of office we're also learning that he plans to file a final report now that the investigations are officially over, and the a.g. merrick garland actually plans to receive, and also publicly release that report. but in the meantime, get ready for another version of the 2024 blame game, because people want to know when they who saw trump go to

trial are asking themselves what went wrong here? some have long pointed the finger at this man. the attorney general himself, merrick garland. they argue that he dragged his feet by not appointing jack smith until nearly two years after january 6th. now others, they say, look no further than this man, mitch mcconnell. he could have rallied republicans to convict trump in his second impeachment trial and that would have barred him from running for president again. but the blame game is not done because there is the judicial nine and the supreme court. it is. it closed the door on a trial before election day by granting trump partial immunity at least some of them did. that's, of course, after it slow walked that very decision fueling trump's tried and true and frankly prudent strategy of delay, delay delay starting to feel like the scarecrow in the wizard of oz and doing all this pointing different directions. well, now the president elect has taken a bit of a victory lap, and he is telling the cases should have never, ever

been brought and he says he persevered against all odds and won. elections do have consequences. they do also have celebrations. well, here to discuss the lead investigator for the house select january 6th committee and former federal prosecutor tim heaphy. good evening to you. tim, let's talk about this because trump, he is, of course, declaring victory. was justice served by this decision to dismiss these cases no. >> laura absolutely not. it is an escape of accountability without precedent. you know, the committee for which i worked found even then when we stopped our investigation, very strong evidence of the violations of federal criminal statutes. i think jack smith only got additional evidence and had more meat on the bones of the story that the committee told. so the evidence in this case, as the special counsel said in his motion today, was quite strong, that there was specific intent to disrupt and

interfere with an official proceeding. and the fact that there will be no legal accountability accountability for at least the next four years is a loss for the rule of law, not a victory. >> well, you know, i wonder about the timing, because that was really the the real big talking point. and frankly, topic for a lot of people it did take more than two years to charge trump they had charged other people, by the way, but those charges came after committee recommended those charges. so what happened in your view? i mean, did did they slow walk it for a significant or good reason or is this just the way that it unfolded? >> hard to say laura, without having been in the room within the department of justice when these discussions were had, it was clear to us, the select committee, that we were getting to some really important witnesses with direct personal knowledge of these criminal offenses before they had been contacted by the department of justice. it seems clear that it wasn't until the select

committee revealed some of that evidence that the department of justice really started to focus on not just people rioting at the capitol but all of the context and the crucial fake electors and attempts to pressure state officials and vice president pence, all the things that we revealed. so yeah, if you look at that timeline arguably, if that investigation had started sooner it could have proceeded more quickly and there could have been accountability sooner. >> do you see the election of donald trump in spite of these cases, as a kind of mandate from the voters that they did not want these cases to go forward no. >> absolutely not i think the election results are can explained by other underlying conditions going on in this country not a direct reflection on the merits of the criminal case. perhaps it was a factor for some, but i don't believe that you can interpret the result of the election in the middle of the economic issues that we've had, in the middle of all of the other serious issues facing this country

discussed by the candidates as any kind of referendum by the public on the merits of these charges. >> i mean, everyone seems to know or at least tell people they know what the exact mandate is and it's as shifting, i think, as the sands depending upon who's actually saying it. let me ask you, do you think that merrick, not merrick garland, that jack smith should have waited to be fired? what were the risks of that? i suppose if he waited to be fired by trump, as promised then the report that was going to be due would ultimately be in the hands of the new ag appointee yeah, laura, i think jack smith is always played by the book. >> and the book here is really clear that the department of justice cannot proceed with criminal charges against a sitting president. and given that there was no trial date scheduled, there was still a lot of pretrial litigation to go he did what the department policy dictates that he do, and that is step away from the prosecution. he made clear that it's not a reflection of the merits of the case, but he's a

by the book person. merrick garland is a by the book person. and this decision is by the book. elections do have consequences regardless of whether they they are a mandate from people about this case. they have consequences. and this is the outcome that is dictated by long standing department of justice policy. >> you know, trump and his inner circle have repeatedly said they're going to investigate the people who investigated trump. i mean, listen to trump's pick for attorney general, pam bondi the department of justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted. >> the bad ones, the investigators will be investigated because the deep state last term for president trump, they were hiding in the shadows, but now they have a spotlight on them and they can all be investigated. and the house needs to be cleaned out are you concerned that you might be a target of their investigation, having been a part of at least one? >> no no. candidly look, they

can investigate and ask questions and seek information but it takes facts and evidence to actually have a legal consequence the rule of law really does. still, at bottom, stand for something. it would have to go to regular people regular americans in a criminal justice process and know everything that the committee did was under the authority of the house of representatives, and the information that was found was the product of a lawful process. the same with jack smith and his investigators. you could question the decision to pursue it, but you certainly can't question the under color of law operation that both the committee and the investigators took. so no, i'm not concerned about any potential long term legal consequence. >> let's hope you're right. tim hafey, thank you so much for joining thanks, laura. well, joining me now here at the table, devlin barrett, who is a justice and fbi reporter for the new york times, karen finney, a cnn political commentator and shermichael

singleton, a cnn political commentator and republican strategist. let me begin with you, devlin. you and i sat in many a courtroom following long two years. it's been a long. it's been a long, has it only been two years? i feel like it's been 17 decades. okay, great well, let's talk about this because jack smith, according to source, is going to release the report after the investigation is over. the rules say he creates a report. he provides the attorney general. if there's a discrepancy, he has to go to congress over this. um, are we going to learn the facts even if these cases are dismissed so i think we need to think of this report differently than, say, the mueller report, where there were significant declination decisions not to charge, and this case where there were significant decisions to charge the indictments are his most important documents. >> jack smith's most important documents. and i think the indictments will still carry the weight of what he wants to say about these cases. i do think there are some things to be said in this report as to why he chose, for example, not to charge rudy giuliani or not

to charge some of these other alleged coconspirators in the january 6th case. but i don't expect a big, thick book the way mueller produced one, and even the way some of the other special counsels have produced lengthy, lengthy things because he filed indictments and i have some of those books in my office as we speak. >> thank you very much, karen look, it's different from the mueller report in another way as well. i mean, trump has won the election. voters were well aware of these indictments to devlin's point, are democrats served by wanting to even see this report? and how much of a focus should they have on it once it comes out? >> you know, look, i think democrats have accepted trump won and unfortunately, the justice system failed. the american people because we deserve to know the results of these indictments, these reports before we went to the polls. and unfortunately for a whole host of reasons, that didn't happen and frankly, trump is right. he did win. this is the strategy that he has used for decades. and he

made a bet that he could do it again. and he was right. i think for democrats, they recognize, look, the report will come out. i'm sure there will be some things that are you know, very troubling. but democrats also failed when these cases were going forward because there was not there should have been one narrative about what these things cases mean together for the american people. because remember people accepted certain things about trump, but they thought, well, but the economy was good under him. and so we didn't, you know, have a strong enough message to say, yeah, but if he's busy focused on retribution or if he's busy figuring out how he can make money, he's not focused on you instead of just trying to tell people more facts. the mistake we made in the 2016 campaign, in fact so i think my advice to democrats is it's time to up your game because you're losing. you're failing and trying to use the same tactics and strategies of just telling the american people pieces of information about him. it

ain't working. >> what do you think shermichael? i mean, the idea that you know, the pearl clutching about existential threats or that this person has all these legal issues that surround him, i mean the absence of them could work the same way that karen talking about. if he says, well, i don't have those issues any longer therefore, i can focus on the american people and the mandates that we have. how do you see it? >> and it didn't work. i mean, for for months and months, even on this network, we talked about this stuff over and over and over at nauseam. and it didn't move the needle. joe biden tried it didn't work. the vice president tried. it didn't work and if you believe harry enten commentary earlier today on our network, donald trump's approval right now is up about 18 points. i believe despite all of these things, i remember data and a litany of articles from the washington post and the new york times about how this matters and all the polling data that suggested voters were so concerned about all of these issues. and yet donald trump improved his margins from 2020, including among demographics that not a single republican haven't done

well with since richard nixon. and i don't think you can dismiss any of those things. i mean, if i'm being i guess blunt. laura, i don't think the average american person cares about these things when compared to other issues that really impact their day to day lives. >> let me ask you on this point, because obviously as a prosecutor i cared not about an election when i was talking about somebody who i believed had committed a crime. do you think that voters are the only audience for a criminal proceeding? i mean, that would be disingenuous if you only focused on it because of politics. if voters are one thing, but jurors and the courts are very another different topic. >> well, jurors are voters. and i think we have the verdict. the jury is out right and the american people decided that they wanted to give the former president another four years, regardless of what their views were on what he may or may not have done. and we have again, a lot of data on what people's opinions are about the former president and his behavior and despite all of those facts, they still said, i don't care

because i believe he's better on the economy. i believe he's better on cost of living. i believe he's better on economic dislocation. i believe he's better on immigration. i believe he's better on foreign policy than the person he's running against. the jury is in. we know what the verdict is. and the american people spoke well, let me ask you, why didn't jack smith wait to be officially fired? >> i mean, he certainly he's been proactive, but should he have been? why? >> i think someone made the point that he is a good soldier and he does follow. want to follow the rulebook? i think there's another more practical consideration, which is if you wait to be fired, then you're putting your whatever your report is going to say in the hands of the trump administration to decide, because you stick around that long. in theory, you might be waiting. ultimately for a republican administration to decide whether that report becomes public. what parts of that report become public? this way, he is still a little bit in control of his own destiny, and the work product that that he worked on all this time

really quick. >> karen should biden pardon trump? >> no. absolutely not. because again, as jack smith said, it was not about the merits of the case. it was about the fact that he was elected. and, you know look, when i say that justice failed, there are a lot of americans who see this as a failure. and we talk a lot about how republicans feel about this. a lot of democrats and independents who say, see, justice system doesn't work. >> it's unfortunately true. a conversation that people believe it does not. certainly, there are more cases that don't involve donald trump and the justice system has to work in those capacities as well devlin, thank you so much. karen shermichael please stand by. i do love you. call me later. okay donald trump tonight, though, putting canada, mexico and china on notice with a threat of massive tariffs is a new trade war on the horizon. plus, vice president kamala harris reportedly tells her team to keep her political options open. what would that look like? and would voters go for

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>> having a plan in place. it was a huge relief. >> create your estate plan at trust and wilcom i'm bill, we're on the california coast and this is cnn 2,000% tariff. >> they're not going to sell one car into the united states. >> a promise we grew accustomed to hearing from president elect donald trump on the campaign trail and tonight, trump upping the ante, vowing 25% tariffs on canada and mexico. also, an additional 10% tariff on china. on his very first day in office, the chinese embassy saying tonight, no one will win a trade war but how will that

order sit with treasury secretary nominee scott bessent? well, here's what besson said. the day after trump won the election i would recommend that terrorists be layered in gradually, which would the the price adjustment would be over a period of time. well back with me, karen finney and michael singleton also joining us, cnn political and national security analyst david sanger. i'll begin with you. you have said that scott bessent would lead the calm the markets team, and i wonder do you think that his presence is strong enough to quell any market concerns? >> we're about to find out. with late night tweets like this. so what do we remember from the first trump term in his first week, he turned out a threat just like this about canada and mexico and there was a lot of scurrying around. it did not happen. now, maybe it

will happen this time. conditions are different, but he has created laura the sort of three distinct teams within his cabinet each of which have missions that come in some conflict with the other. so the calm, the markets team obviously gets in the way of trump's commitments here on tariffs, which could be anything but calming. there's also a team that is clearly out to disrupt the justice department. you were just discussing that in the first segment. that's led by the attorney general nominee and but hardly the only one. and you've seen a number of other members of that. and then you have elon musk running around talking about shrinking the government by $2 trillion a year out of a sort of $6.75 trillion budget. you could wipe out the entire defense department and not get to 1 trillion. you could fire

everybody who works for the federal government and not get to 1 trillion. so there's a lot of statements that don't line up with the reality yet. >> yeah i have to wonder. i mean, we're like 56 days away. who's counting from the inauguration why is he making this announcement now i mean, look, i think if you look at the statements from the president of the eu, maybe two months ago and she stated, maybe we should reconsider purchasing liquid gas i believe, from russia and the united states, out of concern or fear of potential terrorists from trump so if the argument is made that it can be utilized as a, i guess a bargaining tool, if you will, to to lower or level the playing field, you know, perhaps there's some evidence to suggest that if the argument is that, as trump has said nafta didn't necessarily benefit blue collar workers, there is a significant amount of economic evidence to back and support that claim. >> so i want to see where the

president elect goes with this, along with his economic team of advisers. laura. but but i do think there are some areas of focus that they could potentially hone in on that could benefit working class people. >> well, karen, speaking about this, i've been interested in seeing just the overall you know, landscape of his picks. and i know that you've been looking at it in conjunction with not just isolated people, but what it looks like overall. and some of his picks seem to straddle both sides of the ideological aisle, to the point you were raising you've got bessent, who raised money for gore in 2000. you've got also the labor pick, congresswoman lori chavez-deremer, who is more union friendly than most republicans would be. are you surprised by these picks? >> not at all. and i think we're having the exact conversation that trump wants us to be having right because ultimately, which is what, though which is trying to give him credit, like oh, rfk jr. abortion policies, oh this one was for the pro act. um, you know look, the bottom line is

each of these individuals has made a commitment to follow the policies of donald trump. so whatever their personal feelings are or their other policies that they may have previously pursued, they are now in a pact with donald trump. and most of the policy is really going to be run out of the white house. certainly stephen miller, we know, is going to have a really strong hand. one of the architects of project 2025, i will add so it's not surprising, but actually i would love to count up how many of them are millionaires or billionaires because they seem to be adding millionaires every day. um but more importantly, no look, he wants it to seem like perhaps there is some conflict here or some tension there. but you know, rfk jr. is not going to be setting policy with regard to abortion. for example, he's more focused on, you know, this vaccine mandates and some of the other things that he's talked about. >> well, why do you think he's leaving room for these more i guess, centrist ideas? is it

because he wants to have the image of, you know, having a landscape of ideologies that will benefit a wider swath of americans or is it something else? >> well, i think it could be a combination of things. first of all, he's always liked this sort of ferment because it keeps all the different factions a little bit uneasy and leaves him as the one decider. right and while i agree they all have deep loyalty and they would line up, that doesn't mean that there weren't policy fights inside the first term. sure trump administration and so we're going to be trying to figure out what those are going to be. but the deepest reason in many ways is he is not somebody who spends a lot of time thinking about cohesive policy. he's very transactional. so if he thinks threatening a tariff as you suggested, might help him in a short term negotiation with mexico or canada, he's

perfectly willing to go do that he thought that by building some hotels or suggesting that they could be built on the coast of north korea, he could get kim jong un to give up his nuclear weapons. well, he's coming back into office with more north korean nuclear, nuclear weapons than they've ever had before. so it's not if we're looking for consistency here or even deep policy process it's probably not the presidency for that. >> but, you know, really quickly, the rubber's going to hit the road with regard to prices people expect that he is going to be lowering their costs, whether they understand how tariffs work or not. and so all of this sort of machinations, if prices don't start to come down, if people don't feel like he's actually making their lives better, that's where in the court of public opinion he'll have a lot of trouble. >> voters are very result oriented and increasingly impatient with good reason thank you so much. everyone up next, harris 2026 or harris,

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or taking another crack at the white house in 2028. and no one knows for sure what she'll do. but day by day democrats are growing pretty antsy about figuring out a way forward. after losing this election. it's why the race to lead the dnc is getting a lot of attention this time around. we learned today the party is going to vote in february on who should be dnc chair. so far it's former maryland governor martin o'malley and ken martin, who's the chairman of the minnesota democratic-farmer-labor party that are in the running and frankly, plenty of other names being floated. let's get right to andrew yang he's the founder of the forward party and was himself a 2020 presidential candidate for the democrats. andrew, good to see you. thanks for joining. first of all, on vice president harris, do you think that if she runs for president again, she would be a viable candidate recognition and a set of donors that's the envy of many other

candidates. >> but we're talking about two plus years from throwing their hat in the ring for the democratic nomination and that's an eternity in political terms. i do think that that's going to be a very crowded field you're going to have half a dozen governors, many of which that we already know are preparing for that campaign. and a lot is going to change over the next two years. but it's certainly there for her if she wants it and it is, as we all know, a deeply personal decision because it's very high commitment to run in presidential nomination process that's going to consume months and months. >> it's there for her if she wants it, meaning it's opportunity to try again is there for her it's there for her to contend. >> but i do think, again, we're talking about a long time in political circles and that is going to be quite a crowded nomination field, i see.

>> well, let me ask you this i want you to listen for a second to some of what voters told the new york times has said herndon, about the kind of democrat that they would want to support in 2028. and by the way, they insisted they want someone who is best suited to win, not necessarily their ideal candidate listen best suited to win. >> this is only about winning gender matters in america. >> unfortunately, it is mind boggling to me. it is disturbing, but i think it matters. >> so the only thing that defeats a trump like figure or this version of republican party is a white man it's a white male who's on fire. >> well what do you make of that assessment? a white male as the best shot for democrats in 2028. >> well, you don't think it's going to be trump on the other side. it might be a jd vance type. but in 2008, if you had said what we're going to need is an inspirational black candidate, the democratic field, everyone would have said

what? you know, i think that's one reason why this primary is going to be so interesting and important, because new people are going to emerge. maybe not even some of the folks that are already top of mind in terms of that field, who knows? i mean, no one knew about andrew yang could be a surprise in store. but one of the the best things about this process is that you can't predict what sort of figure the nation is going to embrace in terms of demographics. i mean, it's one reason i think that many folks want the democratic party to be a little bit less identity focused. >> well, that's certainly part of the conversation. let me ask you, though are you considering running again political terms. >> laura and i get asked every day if i'm going to run again in one race or another, which is something i'm very grateful for. i'm trying to have a positive impact in ways big and

small in this cycle. it was trying to get joe biden to pass the torch because i thought that he was going to lose to trump. um, and i endorsed kamala because i thought, yeah and i and, you know, i endorsed kamala because i certainly think she would uh, she would be my choice over donald trump. but here we are. trump is the president elect. and now i'll find ways to contribute. >> well, i didn't hear a yes or a no. so stay tuned for everyone out there. listen, andrew, the race for dnc chair is in february. we understand. and there are some folks pushing for former obama chief of staff and former chicago mayor rahm emanuel, who has some well, some sharp political elbows to say the least. do you think that he would make sense for that role to lead democrats forward no i met martin o'malley back in the day when i think he was in a presidential primary. >> i like him, i like ken martin. i think rahm emanuel has a real edge to him and a name and some presence and

gravitas. i think all of these are really positive qualities. i personally nominated my guy, dean phillips, because he's the only person who stood up and said there should be a primary back in january. and i think whoever the democrats select as the dnc chair, it has to be someone who has absolutely no relationship with the decision not to have a primary in january, because there are a lot of people who are very frustrated by the protection of joe biden during that time. and i think rahm emanuel as far as i know, was over in japan so he could definitely fit that bill. he's like look, i had nothing to do with it. i was, uh you know, in tokyo having sushi well, you have to wonder. >> i mean, dean phillips was actually politically vilified by some for having the audacity they thought to question biden's standing until everyone had a different change of heart. that'd be interesting conversation to have. look, we've seen this debate as you mentioned, identity politics. we've seen the debate come up among democrats that they might be out of touch on some social

issues or, as some critics would call it they're too woke, so to speak here is the former dnc chair, donna brazile, disputing that on bill maher listen, there's no question immigration became an issue but i'm not going to get into this oh, the people are too woke. >> that wasn't an issue. >> do you buy that? do you believe it all was the republicans, because they put millions into various attack ads that painted a picture of kamala harris and the democrats as too woke. >> and i think it worked on a lot of voters. i mean, you're very, very data driven when you're in the midst of a campaign. so if an ad works, they would pour money on it and they definitely did. i think they put tens of millions of dollars into it. and it was effective. i think donna is projecting a little bit in terms of what you want to be the case, but i do think that it hurt the dems. >> well we'll see. and by the way, first time i was on bill maher, i was next to you. so

that's a little flashback for me for a second. andrew yang, nice to see you you too. >> happy holidays. i remember it well laura, ever since happy thanksgiving to you, andrew yang. >> thank you elon musk obsesses over more than anything else, it just might be his long time goal of colonizing mars so what happens when a famed astrophysicist mocks his idea on tv? that's next is it safe? >> no. people will probably die. what's the return on the investment? nothing. that's a five minute meeting. and it doesn't happen. >> so tribute. >> meet and celebrate the honorees. then find out who will be hero of the year. plus a special tribute to michael j. fox cnn heroes, an all star tribute sunday, december 8th at eight. >> when we started feeding bogie the farmer's dog, he

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life on mars is pretty well documented. >> the business mogul told spacex employees earlier this year that he anticipates 1 million humans living on mars in the next two decades, but there are some skeptics take renowned astrophysicist neil degrasse tyson as an example my read of the history of space exploration is such that we do big, expensive things only when it's geopolitically expedient such as we feel threatened by an enemy and so for him to just say, let's go to mars because it's the next thing to do, what does that venture capitalist meeting look like? >> is that elon? what do you want to do? i want to go to mars. how much will it cost? a trillion dollars. is it safe? no. people will probably die. what's the return on the investment nothing. that's a five minute meeting. and it doesn't happen. >> well musk was quick to reply to that criticism on x, saying, wow, they really don't get it. mars is critical to the long term survival of consciousness. also, i'm not going to ask any venture capitalists for money i

realize that it makes no sense as an ment. that's why i'm gathering resources. joining me now, someone who is well versed in musk's ambitious aspirations, a founding team member of spacex and ceo and founder of phantom space, jim cantrell welcome, jim. i have to know, do you believe musk's vision for colonizing mars is an impossible feat? >> i don't think it's impossible at all. i think if we left it to the hands of a government as neil says, you know, there would have to be a geopolitical imperative. but for elon, he thinks it's existential and i think he'll do it. the biggest, the biggest issue all along was just having launch capacity that was big enough. and often enough to make make it happen, and that's happened with this very large rocket that we see launching out of texas that he calls starship was that the most pressing concern to get this done, or are there others?

well you know, i think elon is in a world that he's defined for himself and in his world, getting to mars is the most important aspect of our survival as a species. he may be right. you know it's inarguable that eventually this earth gets swallowed up by the sun as it ends its own life. but that's millions of years, probably longer away. you know, there's a lot of other, you know, sort of self harming things that we could do to ourselves, like nuclear war that could possibly exterminate life on earth, albeit vanishingly small probability. it's not entirely crazy what he's saying and frankly, i think he's right. >> you know, according to the national institutes of health, some of the most lethal dangers that humans could possibly face on mars include the exposure to radiation to extreme temperatures, not enough oxygen to breathe how does one

overcome those possibilities? >> yeah, yeah, it's a pretty hostile environment. it's very cold. the atmosphere is carbon dioxide, so there's no oxygen to breathe. you'll have to manufacture your own oxygen to the question of radiation. you don't have an atmosphere to absorb it so yeah, clearly into the forest and sitting by the pond you know, the boring company that he started is really all about boring underground in mars and creating underground cities so in a lot of ways, life is going to imitate, imitate art much like some of the sci fi movies that showed underground mars settlements in, you know, 30 years ago. uh, it's probably what reality looks like. so there's a lot of answers to this. uh, it's not an easy existence. it's not. it's not going to be as easy as settling the new world was 500 years ago. >> i mean, clearly musk is a visionary, undoubtedly in his own right. i mean, he's known for tesla spacex, x, i wonder why. and some people ask this question, of course, why not redirect all that pioneering

and innovative energy to solving issues on this planet the entire 35 years i've been in the space business. >> you know, there was a time where people would say, why are we going to the moon because so many people are starving here on earth. and the reality is, is that this is part of our human dna to go out and explore. it's who we are. it's what drove our ancestors. you know, i don't care where you're from to new places and new places on the continent to different continents, and it's wh us essentially human so i think the distraction argument is really, uh, a misunderstanding of what this human, uh, beauty of of wanting to explore the cosmos would be in a scientifically curious species. it really is i guess a new version of you can walk and chew gum at the same time as you can walk earth and explore space at the same time. >> if that is the case, there you know, you've previously described musk as, um, i think the word was a mercurial guy saying there is a good elon and

a bad elon who are each well, i mean, anybody that's just driven he's clearly a very driven person. >> i've never known anybody in my life like him. uh he left an indelible impression on me, uh, for the rest of my life. uh, i think they've got the good side and the bad side. we all do. i'll admit, i do the same. but, you know, you know the bad elon is one. that's that's you know, in a hurry he's intolerant of what he considers to be bad ideas. the good elon he's charming. he's funny, he's visionary, and he gets it done. so you get the good with the bad with elon. and i'd say the good overwhelms the bad for sure. >> you know, following trump's election win, musk has been tapped to lead doge this government efficiency initiative. what do you make of musk's deepening influence on the president elect? and and this particular cost cutting as it's known to be thought of

task force go to, you know sort of the constitutionality of such things. >> but putting that aside um, you know, i think anytime there's a discussion about how we can make things better, it's a good discussion and you know what? elon is bringing to the table is this can do attitude where most people have sort of given up with the idea that the u.s. government spending is out of control, and there's no, no arguing that we're in a deep budget deficit that can't go on forever, even though it seems to so we'll see how they do. but i think i think intentions are good but you never know how that turns out. so i, for one, am very curious to see how the next 3 to 6 months pans out you and me both. >> jim cantrell. thank you so much my pleasure. >> thank you up next, the drake and kendrick lamar feud takes a

turn from the studio to the courtroom watch cnn's coverage of thanksgiving parades around the country with special appearances by chef bobby flay, t.i., andy grammer, and more. >> john berman and erica hill host cnn thanksgiving in america live coverage starts at 8:00 on i'm premium wireless $15 a month at mint mobile. >> when i premium wireless for $15 a month, i think. why not premium wireless for $15 a month? let's be honest premium wireless for $15 a month. am i right? let's just stop having. i write these. okay, guys it >> are you ready for this new alka-seltzer plus cold or flu fizzy chews? >> chew fizz. feel better. >> fast no water needed. >> new alka-seltzer plus fizzy juice shop etsy. >> cyber spectacular until december 3rd for up to 60% off all kinds of gifts. carefully crafted by small businesses save big on the perfect

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prize picks app today. enter $5 and get $50 instantly with code tv. prize picks. run your game. >> cnn heroes an all star tribute. sunday, december 8th on cnn. >> closed captioning is brought to you by tableau. watch, pause and record live tv subscription free. >> watch live tv for free with tableau. >> access over 90 free channels, plus record, pause and replay, all with zero monthly fees or contracts. order a tableau total system today employee ever. >> macy's finding one. employee one is responsible for $154 million. it seems to have gone missing. they say the employee hid the millions within delivery expenses over the past three years. and now there's an investigation. one thing they do know that employee did not pocket the money. might be wondering, well, where is the money then?

i'm not sure will it impact thursday's parade no. what about the flagship stores? lights? no those traditions are safe this holiday season. but macy's is delaying their third quarter earnings. and it's not good for their stock. considering already slumping sales. maybe black friday will turn things around well, now on to a relationship that probably won't be turned around any time soon they not like us they not like us. >> they not like us drake and kendrick lamar. >> there's a new beat to their feud tonight. drake accusing spotify and universal music group of launching an illegal scheme involving bots payola and other methods to artificially inflate one of lamar's biggest hits. you just heard it. not like us. why would drake care? well, the song is a diss track that takes aim right at him. one in a series of songs, the two artists have slung at each other during their months long rap beef. and that's not all. not like us was nominated for

five grammy awards. lamar was named the halftime performer for the 2025 super bowl and then came the surprise release of his new album this past friday. so how did drake respond? the beginnings of a lawsuit. and it can't be ignored. both artists are represented by divisions of umg, who is responding today saying, quote, the suggestion that umg would do anything to undermine any of its untrue. so i guess the feud continues. thank you for watching anderson cooper 360 is next grand national being rational. >> give them what they asked for it's not enough prosecutions are over now. >> will trump's prosecutions soon >> at the president elect's