beyonce is that she transcends transcends genre, genres. she transcends race. she transcends gender. i mean, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who wouldn't either know a beyonce song or sing. >> so surprised that j.lo is not in the top 25. seriously, over the last 25 years, don't you think j.lo between movie songs like your jenny from the block? >> it's a really. it's a really important point. this this transcending genre point. the biggest stars. usher was only 11 or 12, and despite all the music he's put out, all the producing he's done across genres, had huge. >> you got 30s, i got i looked at there's 25 names and i just my criteria is who would i want to be trapped on a desert island with? >> there's no question i don't agree with virtually anything. you say except beyonce. we have common ground. all right there's no question she's trapped. there's no way to private island now. >> jay-z brings america together. >> look at that

this is cnn breaking news our breaking news tonight pete hegseth his nomination for defense secretary appears to be close to falling apart. >> a senior trump transition source is telling cnn that the nomination is in so much trouble that the transition team is now mulling names to replace him and they include florida governor ron desantis, republican senator joni ernst and republican senator bill hagerty. we're hearing that hegseth has not been forthright with trump and the transition team. our source tells us, quote, he has heard a lot of people as a result he didn't disclose anything tomorrow is going to be absolutely critical. now, all of this is coming after a series of damaging stories about his past. first, remember, it was a sexual assault allegation from 2017. now, he says it was

consensual and he was never charged. then this weekend, it was a report in the new yorker that claims he was forced out of not one, but two veterans groups. why? because of serious allegations of financial mismanagement, sexual impropriety and personal misconduct, including allegedly being drunk on the job. now, he has called the claims outlandish but then there's that email that his own mother sent him back in 2018 that had been uncovered by the new york times. she accused him of mistreating women for years. now she says that she regrets sending that email and immediately apologized to her son when it happened. but all of that is raising major red flags on capitol hill. now hegseth he was there talking to senators today, which gets us to why tomorrow is so critically important. he'll be back on the hill tomorrow, and that's when he will meet with senator joni ernst. yeah, her name is apparently on that list. right? a source tells the congressman that conversation will be critical and if she is

not comfortable with hegseth and about 5 or 6 gop senators will oppose his nomination and the hill is not the only place he will be. the former fox news host is having a homecoming of sorts by sitting down with an interview for, well, you guessed it, fox news. and we're hearing his mom will also give her own interview. let's get right to cnn's zach cohen, who is on the phone with this breaking story. zach you broke the reporting on the trump team. now, even considering replacements. just how nervous are they that hegseth might not make the cut yeah, laura, they're pretty nervous. >> and they've been nervous, frankly since the matt gaetz episode about a week and a half ago. those allegations and the way that his nomination imploded has frankly sent people involved in the trump transition process into a flurry because they know that similar allegations against

pete hegseth have existed. and they have worried about what might surface as he goes through the confirmation process now. look, he has been going to the hill, has been meeting with senators, has been trying to essentially convince them that he is a legitimate and the right candidate for defense secretary. but at the end of the day people are still concerned on the hill. and in fact, it's people that are key to his confirmation is key republicans who still are concerned. and the wave of allegations that have emerged since a week ago are only adding to those concerns. other names, as a result, have surfaced people close to trump and the transition process have started to put together a list of alternatives. if if pete hegseth follows a similar path as matt gaetz joni ernst as you mentioned, is actually involved in those discussions from the senate side, she is somebody who the trump team needs to convince to vote yes. but yet her name is also being floated

as a potential candidate to replace hegseth if he can't be confirmed. so really messy there. but ron desantis, also another name that's come up, our sources telling us that he is a possible alternative to hex. if there's a quote math problem, right, where he can't get the votes to get confirmed. another name is bill hagerty, another senator from tennessee, a republican. he's somebody whose name has been floated for a lot of different top positions in the trump administration. and he's somebody who could potentially be put forward if texas is also not confirmable. so we're gonna have to wait and see. tomorrow is a crucial day, as you mentioned tomorrow we will see if texas can sort of right the ship in this interview with fox news with his mom. but so far, really the most telling thing has been when he's met with some friendly republicans on the hill the allegations against him didn't even come up. senators mentioned that they met with him and they didn't even raise the

allegations themselves. people like senator mike lee didn't even ask about them. but now when we get into the nitty gritty, the part of the process that really matters, you're starting to see this become a problem so the trump team has anticipated this a little bit, but now it's becoming very real for them. and they're trying to find an alternative solution. >> zach cohen thank you so much. joining me now congressional reporter for the hill, michael schnell, cnn political commentator and democratic strategist maria cardona. and former senior adviser to the trump 2024 campaign, brian lanza. glad to have all of you here. look no one wants to be in a position where your last line of defense is that lifeline that your mom might have to give an interview, that you're going to have to go back to fox news, where you have already left as a host, have been talking. brian is the writing on the wall for him, or can he right this ship? >> i would say this the only one who speaks in this is going to be donald trump. so all these anonymous sources of the

transition, having these conversations it's not donald trump having these conversations because we know fully well if donald trump wanted this out in the ether, he'd he tweet something about it and we'd all be having a broader conversation because that's how he likes. pete has an uphill battle tomorrow. he has very key, important senators to connect with. joni ernst is a critical senator for him to do. she's made her brand of fighting. you know, sexual assault in the military i mean, that's her brand. so he has to convince her. and and the burden is on him. mom's not going to help. fox news isn't going to help. it's going to be the 50 republican senators who are going to. or the 53 republican senators who are going to judge him, and one senator matters more than others. and that's joni ernst. so there's a lot riding on it. and we will see. but as for these rumors these innuendos, these non confirmable stories trump's the ultimate decision maker on this. if he wanted us to have a conversation he would tweet on it. >> so michael why is joni ernst the final say? why is she so important here something brian mentioned that she is so well respected. >> and on this issue of sexual assault in the military, she's made it one of her core issues, if not her core issue during

her time up on capitol hill. she's also a veteran herself, so a lot of folks have been watching to see how she will react. now, as you mentioned, as as zach mentioned before, she's on this short list that's being reported of potential replacements. so i think a lot of folks are going to see how joni ernst reacts, how she handles this, and if she really wants to be that role, if she wants the role, she's not going to like him. >> right. >> but it's important to note it's not just the allegations about sexual assault against pete hegseth or the drinking whatnot. he has also said that women shouldn't serve in combat roles, and that's also something that joni ernst has pushed back on she said herself that she needs to explain this. so there's a lot at play here and it's all going to come to a head tomorrow when they finally meet. >> they don't even have that big of a margin. i mean, trump, if he if these are the people who might be on the short list he's plucking from, you know, not a deep well, but the margin will narrow and narrow and narrow. and if she's as important as her others, i mean, the fact that pete hegseth has gone from you know, controversial to now this

problematic. maria how are the democratic senators supposed to look at this? >> i think they look at it as a clown show. and i think they look at it as this is why you have vetting this is why you have fbi background checks. this is why you actually have a process before the president elect announces out of a whim. because he likes the way somebody looks on television. the who you want to be leading one of the most important agencies of the united states of america and frankly, the world. >> and by the way, i don't wanna cut you off on that. but that reminds me of something you and i have talked about in the past. and that is, you know him suggesting that you've got to use the reason you use people who are already sort of part of the system because they have been vetted. they don't want to have any surprises. exactly. maybe he assumed because he was, you know, an anchor on fox and a host, that that had already been taking place. >> but it is not the same thing. i mean, clearly you saw that brian is laughing he's like, no, not even close. no. >> somebody who said no. joining the administration, the background check is

overwhelming. >> yes. >> and i have been i have been through fbi background checks and they go through everything. >> they talk to everyone. you have ever known and periodically updated. exactly. and that's important because if that had been done, all of this would have come out and the embarrassment that the transition team is going through now could have been avoided and what's so interesting to me is that the three people that they have talked about in terms of the backups are all people who have been vetted because they've been in public office, and they actually have the experience. and at least some of the requirements that you need in order to lead such a massive agency. and i don't see how senator ernst is going to be able to be okay with all of the allegations that have come out with all of the statements that you just mentioned with the fact that he has even said that maybe women shouldn't even have the right to vote. i mean, none of that is okay, and i can't see her, and she has a reputation to protect. she's been on the front lines working with senator gillibrand on issues of sexual assault in the military. i can't see how she

says yes. >> and i would just jump in there. there's one more important thing about joni ernst when we're talking about her in this context, you know, in this area, she was the only republican to vote against general john heighten, who was nominated to be vice chair of the joint chiefs. so she has this history and this track record of being a maverick in the senate. she takes us very seriously when it comes to the military, when it comes to matters of sexual assault she's done it in the past. it's an indication that if she has to take this vote and vote no, this time, she's done it before. she may not be apprehensive. we actually have. >> sorry. we actually have some sound. some of the republican senators that you're talking about expressing some concern over this very thing, which, by the way is not what we heard even a week ago. listen there are allegations and they have to be addressed. >> so you don't believe everything you read or see on the tv. but clearly they have to be addressed. >> his own mother sent him a letter saying that she thought he was an abuser of women. i mean, does that allegation concern you? >> well uh, of all the allegations i've seen uh,

that's probably the most most serious. >> all right. so, brian, you know that he like trump, likes to pick people that he's familiar with, seeing how important is this fox news interview, which i might add, although he may have picked a number of nominees that he's seen on fox news, none have really been on since they have been selected as a nominee. but hegseth is going to. how crucial is this? >> he's going to a friendly outlet. you know, the mom story is going to be a story that drives most of the news until he has that meeting with joni ernst. so you need to fill the gap. what you don't want in the morning is nothing taking place. and then this meeting taken at 1:00, and then cable news filling the space now cable news has to cover whatever the mom said. and that's going to be positive coverage. i think we know it at this point. she's going to apologize for sending out letters. she's going to say he loves her son and she made these mistakes, and she thinks her son is a good person so that will be looped in all until that interview takes place. so you're going to have momentum for this for this meeting to take place between ernst and hegseth. >> yeah. but you know what just from i mean, my prosecutor background, having a mom go

having a mom, i know it's not, but having a mom go on the stand, even on behalf of a defendant. like jurors lean in and this is the court of public opinion. i get i get it, and maybe even a juror of one in donald trump. but having a mother say, you know, i don't feel this way. it didn't always have the persuasive ability as, say, a totally unbiased person. just saying no. >> listen i think there's truth to that because you have to remember she's not going on a difficult outlet. she's going on fox, which is an echo chamber of everything. we want but fox is the audience that the president pays attention to. it's an audience that his base pays attention to, and his base matters in this conversation. and so the mom going out there saying the statement, i apologize. pete's a good kid. he's not all that's going to be the statement you hear, at least on fox throughout the whole day. and probably afterward. this meeting is critical. i mean joni ernst has made a brand on this issue. she is a leader on this issue. she's not going to she's not going to sort of bend the knee to donald trump and say, yes, give me pete hegseth. he's going to have to make the case. and i think he has challenges. i don't think mom bails you out the day of an

important test i mean, mom's never bailed me out the day of an important test. why would it start now? >> you say i'm a mom. maybe i bailed my son or daughter. i'm just saying. but not on something like this. let me ask you, though we're talking about joni ernst ron desantis was also on that short list. we're talking about, which i mean, it would make your head spin to think about all of the the the pendulum shifts that are happening what would it say if he's the person? >> i would say this, you know, it's there's a reason ron desantis is on the short list because he's five seven, not because he's qualified to be the job. >> well, i'm five, three and a half. >> what are you trying to say right now? i'm saying trump wants people who look like leaders, and it's a tall job to fill that space. and ron desantis is not fill that space. that's what i'll say about ron. you can clearly tell that trump campaign, you know, we still have our gripes with ron. we're going to go forward with it. but, you know it's a tough challenge at this point for pete. you know, i think johnny is probably the best the best who has a relationship with president trump? hagerty. senator hagerty obviously has an amazing relationship with president trump. we have confidence in him. we have faith in him. we've considered him for other positions. i think ron is is is still too

far. i think we should watch what the president says and not sort of focus on the unnamed sources because we know if president trump wants to have a conversation, he's going to tweet something and we're all going to talk about it. >> my question is not just with pete, but with somebody like matt gaetz. and maybe there are others. is there such a dearth of qualified people within even the maga world that donald trump has to choose people with those kinds of disgusting, icky allegations in their backgrounds is it because he himself has those allegations and he himself has been accused of those, and he himself has been adjudicated by a court as a rapist? does that i mean, does he like that kind of company, sexual sexual assault, or does he just like that kind of company? i mean, i don't understand or does he just think that because he says it, it's going to happen? >> well, listen, what do you think on that? >> michael i think that we've spoken about this before that the first line, the first qualification that i think trump is looking for these

nominees to have is loyalty right? >> he's been through this already. once with the first administration, there was massive turnover throughout those four years. he went he burned through secretaries. he burned through acting secretaries. so i think that he's coming at it from this standpoint that he wants to make sure that the person who he puts in that position is loyal and will stay in it for as long as possible and we're seeing that play out right now with some of these nominees but that's but that's every cabinet official. >> you know i don't remember people during the obama administration or even the clinton administration, which i was a fan of, saying, you know, he picked a disloyal person who's going to be an outside voice. everybody picks an echo chamber as their cabinet secretaries. there was literally no argument that we've had out of the biden cabinet secretary over the last four years. and we know biden has been mentally not up to the job. so cabinet secretaries are nothing but a rubber stamp and you're entitled to have who supports you. you're entitled to have who's earned your trust and clearly, the people that president trump has named, they've earned his trust over the years, just like the people joe biden's name. now, there's no belief that they're actually going to act in the best interest of the country, because if we believe that they would have removed joe biden two years ago when we saw the mental decline let me ask you

on that part, though, because it goes back to the mandate. >> and in this i do wonder, we've heard time and time again that trump got a mandate when he had this decisive victory in november. but then you can effectively chop away at the credibility that you have as having the mandate, whatever it might be in his mind if you have people who the public doesn't trust or that members of congress are saying, hold on we we had it in the bag and now you're giving me someone who's going to have it undermining. >> i think it's too early, because if you look at the polling, you have more people who now are supporting trump's names for cabinet positions, his approval, his approval of his new administration is at the highest it's ever been it's even higher than when he ran for president. >> so clearly he's getting more popular as these as these picks come through. so the view that these picks are having a negative impact on the ratings of administration, we haven't seen that. >> how about on capitol hill though? i mean it is the beginning but how about in capitol hill. what's the what is the vibe when you know behind the scenes? we know the camera gives people a kind of moral lobotomy. all of a sudden when when you're talking to

people behind the scenes, what is the impact of having these allegations out there? >> well, that's the thing. there's a conversation you can have about the qualifications of each individual, and they're the conversations you can have about these allegations and about these these, these this baggage. and i think that in the case of pete hegseth, it's been just this constant spigot, this constant drip, drip of information. first, it was the reporting that there was the 2017 incident. then we saw the police report, then we had the letter from his mother. now we have the new yorker reporting about why he left those two veterans organizations. we have the nda, you have the nda. we've been seeing this information constantly come out. and this is not what republican senators and house members want to be talking about. they have this mandate. they want to gear up for the first 100 days, not fighting over this. >> and it's all about qualifications you might talk about biden's picks or democratic picks in general. they always nominated people that were qualified for these positions that actually had experience in doing this. this is not the case here. >> i would say austin had the experience. you know, the secretary of defense had the experience and his failure in afghanistan shows that the

proper vetting and long term experience doesn't equal success. >> we'll see what the senators actually think. and tomorrow, being a very important day. thank you everyone. thanks laura. thanks. up next, the man who helped deliver the presidency for joe biden, standing by him and the decision to pardon hunter. congressman james clyburn is here to tell us all about the behind the scenes move that he made to urge biden to do it and the other high profile pardons he thinks should be next you only come across an artist like luther vandross once in a lifetime. >> he was a boss from the beginning. luther said, i have a sound in my head. i got to get it out you are my shining star. >> it was the most exciting time in the world. >> his life had extremely joyful moments and some really difficult moments. if we were to be able to talk to luther as fans, we would be able to say we just love you, luther. >> never too much new years day at eight on cnn.

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and this is cnn well, new tonight. >> the list of democrats upset with president biden's pardon of hunter is. well, it's getting longer. and you can now add a very high profile

democrat to that list. california governor gavin newsom. he says, quote, with everything the president and his family have been through, i completely understand the instinct to protect hunter. but i took the president at his word. so by definition i'm disappointed and can't support the decision now, biden, hunter biden pardoned hunter for the federal tax evasion and gun charges that he faced, but also for any other crime he may have committed in nearly 11 years. the president ignored shouted questions about the pardon today while he was overseas, so a statement is still the only explanation that we have to work with, which basically says he pardoned hunter because his son was unfairly targeted. well joining me now, one of biden's top allies on capitol hill, democratic congressman from south carolina, james clyburn. congressman, i'm so glad you're with me here today. you've undoubtedly heard the criticism and i wonder, are you okay with the pardon of hunter biden? >> well, first of all, thank

you very much for having me. i am absolutely okay with it. i don't know how many people urged him to do so, but i did. you did? two weeks? yes, i did, because i know he was targeted. we all know that. but for the fact that he was joe biden's son, he never have been taken through these gyrations. and so i tell him, the last time i talked to him two weeks ago. yes. >> what was his reaction to that, by the way? >> he seemed to be a bit reticent about it but i emphasized the fact that we as fathers have obligations to our children. now if hunter had gone through a process like everybody else had gone through, i would not have this feeling. but when you get

prosecuted because you did not fill out a form to get a gun, that you never used, that was even taken away and thrown away and then you get prosecuted for it to make it felonious. that to me is a problem. and everybody i've talked to tell me that nothing like this would happen to an ordinary person. and so when people start saying that this looks like there are two levels of justice no, no. i asked them to think about this again. i know plenty of people who have not filled out forms correctly, and never get to this point. and so joe biden needed to do on his way out of office, what he could to protect his son. >> he could have done this, though. congressman, earlier, i mean, he has been dealing with this for quite

some time. even the even the actual conviction was many months ago. at this point in time. why just two weeks ago? obviously, there's the election, but why did president biden or you not suggest that earlier? >> well, i've always felt it but, you know, i was at the white house. we were in a situation that was kind of jovial but i wanted and felt obligated to say to him, it's the season. and i think you need to really do what's necessary to protect your son. >> would you excuse me, congressman? would you have done the same had harris won the election? is the concern the incoming administration and doj or in general? >> absolutely. i had a press conference a few days before i met with him at that press conference alyssa naeher. uh whose last name is slipping at the moment? uh but i joined with her. yes with miss

pressley and miss scanlon from pennsylvania calling on the president to use his clemency authority to correct some other things that we think went wrong with some prosecutors prosecutions and i've done some things outside of that. i believe in forgiveness. i believe in punishment. but i believe that vengeance belongs to the good lord almighty. >> you know, there have been some similar statements, ironically, that trump has made that now, president biden has made suggesting that the department of justice um, was the vehicle to abuse authority. do you have concerns that by biden's statement to suggest that that he is giving a kind

of gift to president elect trump to now say well, hold on then. it's all fair game. i too should get those benefits. >> how long has president trump been talking about pardoning people who are insurrectionists throughout his whole campaign, that's what he campaigned upon. yeah pardoning those people who participated in events that led to deaths trying to overthrow our government. and he says, i'm going to pardon them. they are patriots you know what i see here is not dual justice, but i think there is a two tier system here where everything is okay if we don't have much expectation for for you, but it's not okay if our expectations expectations are higher. and i think that's what's happening to joe biden

here. >> you mean for democrats versus republicans in a sense, or you mean joe biden versus donald trump it's got nothing to do with democrat versus republican. >> i know a lot of republicans who would not say the things that trump has said would not do the things that trump has done and has been accused of doing. i know a lot of democrats that are disapprove of the things that they say and do. so this has got nothing to do with party here. this has to do with whether or not we are dealing with justice or whether or not we are dealing with like we used to say, uh just us. >> well, you know, i don't know if you heard the former democrat, now independent senator joe manchin had a recommendation that he made. he was talking about cleaning the slate and he suggested that president biden should pardon president elect trump. what do you think of that?

>> well i've said to people that i'm in that category as well, really did see what manchin had to say remember that trump has not been convicted of anything in the federal realm. those convictions are state convictions so i'm not talking about state here. i'm talking about things that could impede our federal government and so i believed that manchin may be onto something there. >> you wouldn't support pardoning trump for the federal crimes? >> yes. i could absolutely because the supreme court has pretty much made it very clear, uh that he is preemptively pardoned of anything he may do as president because of the immunity decision for official acts. >> really quick. i know we have to go. there's been a lot of threats made about whoever

leads the doj for prosecutors who were involved in the prosecution of trump and otherwise special counsel jack smith, likely to be somebody on an enemies list of sort. if you recommend to biden. do you include the federal employees and prosecutors and special counsel who were actively on these cases to protect them as well? >> yes absolutely. jack smith name is on my list. liz cheney's name is on my list. i think that they all should be preemptively pardoned because i think there are people who trump may bring into this government who will go after these people in a serious way, and it's no need to subject them to that. even if they are found not guilty, why put families through that? why put these people through that? that kind of expense, that kind of worry, that should not be. i think liz cheney is a great

patriot. and i also think there will be a lot of maga people going after her. >> i suspect your phone is going to ring with people wanting to be added to the clyburn list as well. congressman, always a pleasure to have you here. thank you. >> well, thank you so much for having me well ahead, mark zuckerberg says that he wants to play an active role in shaping trump's views on tech policies. >> why now? and is he the right person to do just that? alaska. former facebook whistleblower whistleblower frances haugen that very question and do you hear that i could be in mar-a-lago right now. just kidding. i'm not. but you all know how much donald trump loves this song. ymca, right? well what is the band think? victor willis of the village people, the one who wrote the song, joins me on that and much more next young man cause you're in a new town. >> there's no need cnn heroes,

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it's okay. it's gonna be. it looks good, right? the senior care you need at care.com listen to chasing life with me doctor sanjay gupta. >> wherever you get your podcasts look, i know it you know it, trump definitely knows it young man there's a place you can go. >> i said, young man well, i mean, it is fun to stay at the ymca but whereas you and i might spell it out, ymca with our arms to of course, the classic tune well, trump has his own twist, doesn't he? >> and his version has made its way from his rallies to sports to mar-a-lago thanksgiving

dinner and america isn't mad at it. the song went right back up to number one for three weeks on billboard's dance electronic digital songs chart and google is seeing searches for the song at its highest level in two decades. but what did the village people think about all the attention and where it's coming from? well, let's ask victor willis is the co-writer of the song, and lead singer of the village people and look at him. he is here with me now, understanding the assignment. what a pleasure it is to have you here today victor thank you. >> it's my pleasure. >> well, listen, i mean originally you asked trump, as i understand it, to stop using ymca because it was, quote, a nuisance. a lot of people were contacting you about him using the song when others had pulled out and said he can't use their music you've had a change of heart why well, i, um noticed that trump

actually likes the song and that he really seems to have a lot of fun with it. >> and um, it after after paying attention to the way the song has gotten so much more attention since he's been using it it's done a lot to to to make people pay attention to the song again. and i decided that that i wasn't going to stop him from using it. i told my wife to, you know, let him let him do his thing. you know, he likes the song and that's why i changed my mind about it. >> i wonder what goes through your mind when you see the president elect dancing to your song. and by the way, you're seeing people reference his moves to that song on football fields and different memes and beyond, it seemed to never have gone away and had a resurgent resurgence. let's go through your mind well, i'm i'm a very excited when i see people doing the ymca and i've seen all the

different sports people doing it. >> um, it's exciting. it's an exciting moment and it's an exciting time that the song is resurging again. and it's reaching such a high peak and i'm, i'm, i'm thankful and impressed well, i mean, i already see you clearly have an outfit ready to go for tonight. >> well, are you going to be asked, do you know, have you been asked to perform at the inauguration well not not yet. >> would you do it if i was asked if i was asked today, i would probably say no. but um. why? but if if they i. well, i haven't i haven't really made up my mind if they come to me and they ask me, i would probably tell them that um, i would be definitely considering doing it because he's done so much to help the song that it wouldn't be. it would be nothing but correct for us to do it. and i mean it's music and it's music that i wrote

for everybody to enjoy. so i wouldn't have any qualms at this point in my mind of of thinking about going and doing it anyway. >> well, you know speaking of that, and i read your facebook post about this issue in part and the meaning behind the song. and, you know, when you put art out into the world, it's going to be interpreted different ways. and sometimes you might like the interpretation, other times you might take issue with it and you've been taking issue with the song's reputation as being described as a kind of gay national anthem. and frankly, even president-elect trump has has called it that listen you know, it gets them rocking. >> why ymca ymca, the gay national anthem. did you ever hear that they call it the gay national anthem, but ymca gets people up and it gets them moving. >> now you wrote on facebook that you don't mind. this is your words. you don't mind that gays think of the song as their

anthem, unquote. but the assumption you say is completely misguided. why well because, um people have in the media and in a lot of instances has made ymca just said that it's a gay anthem. >> but in reality, ymca is more than just a gay anthem. the ymca is an anthem for, um, for for parties, for bar mitzvahs, for weddings, for sporting events. since it's so many anthems that people use it for. and i think that basically, um it kind of disturbs me when they just tried to say ymca is just a gay anthem, and that limits that limits what the song is really about it's, it's a, it's a mini anthem. it's so many anthems that people use ymca for um, you know, you went so far as to say in your post, though, that that starting in 2025, you may ask

your wife, who you referenced here tonight um, to begin to to sue media organizations that might refer to it as such. >> you're saying it's the use of it as if to suggest that it has, but one one connotation that disturbs you that's correct. >> that they just use it to say that it's one thing, that it's just a gay anthem. if they want to say it's a gay anthem, it doesn't. that's fine with me. but but say at the same time say that it's a mini anthem, it's a gay anthem. it's a wedding anthem. it's a party anthem, it's a trump anthem. it's a sporting events anthem it's a bar mitzvah anthem so if they say that, well, then it wouldn't disturb me. i wouldn't be, i wouldn't have my wife go after anybody about it. >> well, i think the name of your tour, should you choose to do one, will be called the anthem. there you go. and you'll let everyone decide for themselves. what? that is. that's what you'll do. okay well, listen, victor, i'll

check it out there you go. you check that out, i'll be i'm eager to see you again. and i love i. i am so tickled and undone by the fact that you have this outfit on. i love it you look fabulous. and i'm so glad to get to know you. thanks for joining thank you i'll be watching you and hope to meet you in person soon. well you know, i'll drive fast and you can pull me over officer. okay. thank you so much all right, all right. >> you busted and it's the battle of the billionaires again. >> mark zuckerberg trying to get in on elon musk's territories creating policies with donald trump to stop luther never too much. >> new year's day at eight on cnn your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. >> nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i

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me. there he is. but wherever i go, it's always where's waldo? oh waldo. >> are you wally? >> yeah, yeah yeah. never. who's waldo how are you? sometimes it takes someone who really knows you to make you feel seen. >> gifts that say i get you. etsy has it you'll love this. >> centrum silver is clinically proven to support memory in older adults. so you can keep saying you mastered it. you fixed it, you nailed it. you did it with centrum silver. clinically proven to support memory in older adults resolve your pet knows if a mess is really gone. >> if not, they may mark the spot. resolve gets rid of pet messes better than the leading competitor, destroying stains, neutralizing odors and preventing remarking love the love. resolve the mess. >> i can't move again. >> you've gotten used to chaos. we can get rid of that. >> don't sell. oh my gosh, is this our house when leaving just isn't an option, the brothers are here to help. >> thank you. you're welcome.

you're welcome. >> don't hate your house. all new wednesday at nine on hgtv move over. >> elon musk because mark zuckerberg wants a seat at the trump table. coming on the heels of a one on one at mar-a-lago, a meeting with president-elect trump, meta's president of global affairs, nick clegg telling cnn today zuckerberg is looking to take a quote, active role in tech policy discussions with the trump administration. and according to the new york times, the meta boss has already been in touch with trump in the months leading up to the election. now, it's notable because in a book just released this past summer, trump threatened to put zuckerberg in jail for the rest of his life if he did quote anything illegal during the election. it seems like maybe zuckerberg got that message. clegg also saying today the company may have been too restrictive in moderating content during the 2024 election. he writes too often, harmless content gets taken down or restricted, and too many people get penalized

unfairly. we have sought to update and apply our content policies fairly so that people can make their voices heard joining me now frances haugen. she is a facebook whistleblower who testified to congress back in 2021 that facebook was putting their own profits above user safety. frances, good to see you again. i wonder if is zuckerberg the right person to be in trump's ear shaping tech policies mark's in a very hard position right now because he's bet the farm on ai at meta. >> but places like the european union australia, canada, they're beginning to actually put in place legislative legislation. so he needs someone like trump to step in and, and put down a wall and say, no, no, no no, hands off american companies. >> now you've been somebody who has been critical of meta for the reasons we described and others, but you've also been speaking quite clearly about wanting to be a part of the solution so in that vein, what

do you think about the company signaling that they will moderate content less? is that the right way to go since i came forward almost three and a half years ago, i've said very clearly that content moderation isn't a very effective strategy. >> nick clegg is heading on a really critical part of the problem. about 10% of the time when meta takes down content, it doesn't violate its own policies. meta should be focused on things like transparency and designing for safety, not just taking down content. >> some of that seems like being proactive. other parts are reactive i would assume with the onslaught of content that comes in an hourly let alone a daily basis. there's going to be a lot of catch up trying to figure out not so much what to do. theoretically but how to react in the moment if that's the case. is content moderation more appropriate then so i'll give you an example. >> you might have noticed that there's more and more reels in

your facebook feed, or you're getting pushed more and more short form video on instagram. facebook is known for years that when they show you more content your friends and your family you get safer content. when we rely on ais algorithms to choose what we get to see or not see, we put ourselves at the mercy of computers. facebook knows that those same systems disconnecting us from people is what leads us to more and more dangerous content because the algorithms push us towards more extreme content. >> that's fascinating to me, because the idea of not a human, but ai having a role, and there were a lot of, for example, ai memes in the lead up to this very election. and we were all frankly, worried about the potential misinformation, not just extreme content, but misinformation that could not only be spread with deepfake deepfakes and also the like. so while meta said today that ai content made up about less than 1% of election misinformation on their apps, one do you believe it? and two, are these fears, then about ai overblown

so one of the challenges whenever we deal with facebook is they're very good at showing us just a tiny sliver of the painting and usually it's whatever makes them look the best so in the case of, for example, self-harm content, when you pull, when you talk to facebook, they say 1 in 10,000 images is self-harm. >> but when you talk to kids, they say, you know, something like 10%, 15% said they saw self-harm content in the last week. so we have one of these situations where it might be a tiny amount of misinformation was generated by ai, but they didn't tell us how that was distributed. did the ai bias towards other ai content because it was more compelling? the other issue is catching things like influence operations is much more effective than catching individual pieces of content. and facebook has actually shown less and less of its, um, its accountability reports. they don't publish them anymore. and whether or not they take down these foreign interference efforts in the united states well, i'm curious because we talk about echo chambers all

the time, and a lot of people are drawn to a more personalized approach to consumption of information, whether it's truthful or not. >> and so if people are essentially plugging away, selecting and maybe self-selecting towards certain information, how could say, a meta or otherwise regulate that behavior if that's what you'd like to see? i'm not talking about for example, maybe self-harm, but in the political context or more current events and information, if people if there's an appetite in the market, what is meta to do facebook has done studies where they they actually go and kind of analyze the composition of the real social networks that exist on facebook and assume it's true for instagram as well. >> but more of this research was done on facebook, where they say how homogeneous is your bubble? most of these things where we talk about filter bubbles come from only rely on the ai. when we rely on the computer to pick where we should focus, because the computer doesn't really understand what's compelling, they just understand what's

most similar to other things that you've engaged with, which are also often more extreme than other forms of content you've seen. so that's fascinating. can we actually fall back on communities on people? we get a more diverse set of content. >> frances haugen, thank you so much. >> thank you for inviting me hey thank you for watching. >> anderson cooper 360 is next who should be the 2024 cnn hero of the year? >> it's your chance to weigh in. discover the life changing work this year's honorees are doing. then cast up to ten votes a day every day. visit cnn heroes dot com. >> if you know luxury, it's not just award winning, it's rewarding. saatva mattresses supports all types of sleepers. luxury is handcrafted and assembled in american factories and brought directly to you with our complimentary in-home delivery and setup service,

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at untuckit. com and more than 80 stores worldwide i'm elizabeth wagmeister in los angeles and this is cnn. >> closed captioning is brought to you by mike, an all in one home access and monitoring system mike, you boost your home's iq tonight on 360. >> breaking news on the president elect's pick for defense secretary. now facing growing >> allegations of a drinking problem also tonight, what just happen