told them and very colorful worlds absolutely not. and it became somewhat of a controversy whether steely dan is is or is not. and i just want to stand up for them and say, thank god they did this. they are not your rock. they've been in the hall of fame since 2010. i think it is and their album oriented rock and thank god they did this to throw them off the close this out brian. >> yeah exactly right a plea okay on behalf of parents everywhere, we've got to rein in this elf on the shelf phenomenon for those who don't know what it is, don't google it for parents who know this is these elves they're pulling pranks. they sneak around your house at night. somebody's got to go out and move them around the house. i have to hide these elf toys for 18 more days. phil, i don't know what i'm going to do. although we were talking about tiktok earlier, the one great thing about social media is

the hunt for the ceo killer expands. >> police say they have found a backpack in new york's central park. >> they now have reason to believe that he is outside of new york city. >> he could be anywhere by now. >> detectives finding dna on a water bottle and a cell phone. >> our detectives are doing a very, very extensive video canvass. >> we cannot rule out that he planned on us finding the backpack that he left contra indicators. >> the nypd commissioner calling the photo the money shot. >> this flirting incident could be a major break in the case. >> this individual is following this case in the media. he knows he screwed up. he could very well be watching this show right now more than two days, 16 hours,

and still no arrests in the manhunt for the killer. >> tonight, though, dramatic new signs police are close to naming their suspect. good evening. welcome to a special edition of laura coates live. i'm erica hill in for laura in new york city, where the gunman first struck. although tonight authorities admit he could be anywhere. our team of reporters, law enforcement experts and analysts are here live to walk us through it all. law enforcement. meantime is scouring over key new evidence. two people briefed on the investigation tell cnn they are honing in on the possible identity of the suspected killer of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson, and a major focus right now is also this bag. police believe it's the suspect's backpack found earlier tonight in central park. take a look at these images. a comparison of the suspect's gray backpack. when he carried out the shooting. and the backpack that was discovered in central park. they do look alike. police did not open that bag when they found it. instead sending it directly to the lab to be checked out. and it's important

to note this would fit with what we know from the timeline. remember the suspect was seen wearing a backpack before fleeing into central park. video of him leaving the park, however, shows him without it. and now, while authorities are making progress, they also admit the suspect could be long gone. new york city's police commissioner telling our shimon prokupecz they have reason to believe he has left the city but they have managed to retrace his movements up to that last known location. we put together a map for you that shows his flight from the time of the shooting until he was last seen in new york city. here is where brian thompson was gunned down outside the hilton hotel in midtown manhattan, minutes after fleeing the suspect was seen biking into central park. backpack was found there, of course, near the carousel in central park. the next time the suspect was spotted, he was biking out of the park near 77th street. he's then seen walking about nine blocks further uptown, where he gets into a cab, takes that taxi all the way up to the port authority bus center near 178th

street. the busses there are. there are some interstate busses, many of them commuter busses, but not all, which is why they believe he may possibly be out of the state of new york entirely. joining me now, kirk burkhalter, a retired nypd detective and a professor of law at new york law school, tom verdi, former nypd detective and law enforcement consultant, lizzi jordan criminologist and behavioral analyst, and shimon prokupecz cnn's senior crime and justice correspondent. good to have all of you here. so shimon, the fact that police say they are getting a little bit closer, they may know who the suspect is. how close is close? >> it's hard to say, really, because no one really wants to talk about it, because no one wants to say something that could potentially jeopardize the investigation. but also, i think legally they're just worried they can't really come out and say who someone is. and just in case that is not the person, but they are particularly interested in someone, they've been working this up. they've been trying to figure this out. and so it is someone that has certainly sparked a lot of interest, so much so that that information

that they have someone that they're kind of looking at that information has been shared with some people very close to this investigation and some people very important to this investigation. and that's as far as really what we know. and they're still working through it. you know, just having this idea of someone who might be behind this still requires so much work before they can publicly come out and say that this is the person. right. >> nobody wants to nobody wants to misidentify someone. obviously, that's the last thing that you want to do and then have that hanging over you. but given the fact that, as shimon is reporting, we are to the point now where people higher up, maybe have been informed that they may have a sense they're starting to share a little bit. what would it take for more of that information to be made public for for authorities to feel that they really may have their guy. >> well, keep in mind, there has to be a criminal prosecution at the end of this of course. so what would make folks feel comfortable is knowing more of a certainty that this is the person who is ultimately going to be arrested and possibly stand trial.

certainly would not hold well for a prosecution if they arrest the wrong person. >> no, doesn't tend to work out all that well. no. so so as we're looking at all of that, how long do you think, based on what we know based on what we are learning from different sources, how long until we have a name? >> well, not soon enough for the for all of us. right waiting with bated breath i was talking earlier with with jake about this in that everyone's expectation is that this would have been wrapped up already right. and that's what generally happens on tv shows. and, you know, crime gets solved in csi. >> that's the law and order effect without the commercials and unfortunately, you know, we have experienced in our lifetimes that that rarely occurs you know, an investigation like this where steps were taken to conceal his identity he went to great lengths to do that. >> and then, you know, disappeared. like, where's waldo in the middle of manhattan, which is very easy to do and clearly plan this out

for quite some time. and that's so this is not you just run of the mill. you know, going in to rob a bank and run out or the average gang shooting. this is something that was planned out well, methodically done. and and it's going to take a while to piece together thousands of pieces of, of information and evidence that are being put forth to the investigators right now in terms of piecing that together. >> it is remarkable how much we have seen that's been pieced together. casey. right in terms of the timeline from from the time that he first arrived in the city, which frankly, was a long time ago, even up until that last sighting going into that bus terminal at 178th street, when you see all of that, in addition to the fact that there is this reporting now that maybe they're getting closer, who knows? he may be watching, right? how could all of that influence a suspect's moves? >> that is why i think we don't yet have a name. i'm sure they have a name, but once that name is released and while they have that name, they're going to want to be speaking to all relatives, all friends collecting photographs of him from social media. anything

they can do by the time they put out an apb saying, this is the guy we're looking for, they want to make sure they couldn't get him on their own, that they need the public's help to get him. and once his name is out there his behavior will change. it will become desperate. it may become a lot more dangerous. i mean, i often think about andrew cunanan, right? he killed four people in ten days. nobody paid attention. we didn't really know who he was. and then once he killed gianni versace, the manhunt was on and that really did change his behavior, made it a lot more desperate so they need to be very, you know we don't really have a right to know unless they need our help. so we need to be very patient and let the investigators do their work because once his identity is out there everyone should be a little bit afraid so we have the suspect. >> we also have more the backpack, frankly, that was found which which they believe right? yeah. is his backpack. what more do we know about it? >> so i can tell you right now we're trying to figure something out because so there are investigators still in central park now, and we're still trying to sort this out.

what's going on. but yes, they found the backpack. it is there they are gaining all this evidence off of it and they want to take it to the lab so that they could do their work on it. specifically. i think what they're going to try to do is find hope. they can find some dna. but what we don't know is what's what was inside the bag. i think at this point, i think the nypd has a very good idea of what was inside that bag. they can easily x-ray it, right? they can have the bomb squad come. we believe this is what's going on. now that the bomb squad would come and they could x-ray it, and they could easily see what's inside the bag. so the nypd right now has a very good understanding of what of what they're dealing with. but again you know what we're seeing. i think also in real time that's happening here is is that they're developing a criminal case. they can't it's not just about finding him but it's also about building out this criminal case and all these little things. the backpack could be a very key piece of evidence in this, because it places him at that

scene. you know, right now, all we have of him at the scene, he's fully covered and you don't have a witness that says that's the guy. so they need all this other evidence now, all this other forensic stuff. so that's what we're seeing. play out, play out as well in real time. >> and in terms of that information, in terms of the the evidence, frankly, that could be taken from that backpack both inside and outside. there's the dna. there could be other things that put him at the scene that also could help retrace some of these footsteps how soon to the point of the information only comes out when they want the public to have it right, so that it can be helpful in the in the investigation how soon do you think we will have that backpack information, specifically the contents well, keep in mind at this point, we don't know if there were any coconspirators or accomplices. >> so i think that that will certainly dictate the release of the information. so there may be others out there that the police need to question or, or perhaps even apprehend so it

really determines what is in the backpack that will dictate how soon that information is released. >> we're also just learning the fbi announcing a $50,000 reward for more information. how effective are those offers of a monetary reward? >> well that will sweeten the pot, right? normally through crime stoppers here in new york city. it's it's a $10,000 reward for crimes like this that have occurred where they need information. and, you know, the public listen to that. that's how we solve crimes in new york city and most other places. it's the input from the public, you know, information because we can only be on a certain block at a certain time. so they're the eyes and ears and they give us the information that we need to to bring all these cases to a close. so, you know, when you have additional funding that will come in to sort of sweeten the pot then, you know, people are going to say, hey, well, i was going to give you the information for nothing, but i'm going to make 50 grand off it. then it's worth my while. >> i just say something about this. this is really important that the fbi is doing this. they don't normally do these in these kinds of cases. and i know that the fbi, in talking to folks tonight, they want to

get involved they want to do more to try and help this investigation. this is a really good sign because i will tell you, there's some concern as to why the fbi is not more involved, given that there is fear now that he has fled the city and is in in another state, though i just saw this. now, this is really significant and a really good sign because certainly, you know, the nypd will tell you, you know we're the greatest detectives and we can do this but i think having the fbi now involved the resources are much larger. they can obviously extend to anywhere around the country. they're capabilities are much stronger. and this is what i think we need to start seeing. honestly and not only the fbi, but also the u.s. marshals and their fugitive task force and all of these different agencies need to get together and try and find this guy. >> so we know the fbi is now involved. the atlanta police obviously are helping out. we've learned that as well. but to the point of sweetening the pot here to the point of

this $50,000, it's impossible to ignore, too, that there there is some sympathy for this killer out there. there has been so much backlash and normally you would see this outpouring of thoughts and prayers. a person who was gunned down early in the morning in new york city, and it has been a backlash against the industry in many ways, horrific things said about this man who was killed do they need to sweeten that pot a little bit more? because maybe people aren't coming forward because they somehow sympathize with this killer? >> well, you know and i've seen this. i've seen some of the stuff online. and, you know look, at the end of the day, this is it's a murder. and regardless of what this particular ceo may, may or may not have been involved in, there was some reporting of an investigation with fraud and all that sort of stuff. and he has a family, you know and it's the holidays. i mean, no one wants to have a family member gunned down in the middle of the holidays or any time of the year for that matter. so, you know, i think it's important for people to kind of reach back and see if there is some level of empathy, at least for the family, for

the two children. >> and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who hasn't had a complaint with their insurance company probably, you know, present company included so, you know, there is a lot of animosity towards that particular field and, you know, when you see these ceos and the money that the companies are making and the money that they're making and the strife that everyone else goes through when putting in a claim and claims not being filed or being taken care of yeah, it's i'm not surprised at the backlash, but at the same time it is disconcerting and you would hope that people wouldn't, you know, hold back and hold that information because, you know, for all practical purposes, this person is armed and considered dangerous because as you had mentioned before, if you corner a rat and a rat is going to come at you, and that's what we're dealing with now. all right, everybody, stand by. much more to come here including a closer look at that murder weapon. the nypd now investigating a new theory about the kind of gun that was used, what it could say about the killer our firearms expert,

stephen kotowski, is standing by live with his analysis and a bit later, of all the places the gunman could have fled, why did he choose to go into central park? the new clues emerging tonight as our special coverage continues welcome to times square that's not on my mind cheers it's so embarrassing we are joined by john mayer. >> we are at a kat bar out oh, my gosh, that's perfect. >> tv new year's eve live with anderson and andy live coverage starts at eight on cnn. >> streaming live en masse we learned that beckett would be born with half of a heart. >> you have all these expectations, and they just come crumbling down. >> he was transferred to the hospital. we had a plan and kind of built relationships with the people that were going

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together. that's what muesli did for me cnn heroes an all-star tribute sunday at eight on cnn new york police may have a new theory about the weapon used to kill unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson chief of detectives joseph kenny telling the new york times they're now looking into whether the bullet shells may have been used in what is known as a veterinary gun. >> so we have a photo to show you of. this is a similar gun. it's a larger weapon. it's often used on farms and ranches to put down animals without

causing a loud noise. is this really the breakthrough, though that police think it is? joining me now, cnn contributor, gun safety instructor, and firearms reporter for the hbo.com stephen gutowski. good to have you here, stephen. so the nypd as i noted, they say it's a possibility it could be a veterinary gun. you say you're not buying it at all why? >> yeah, i one thing we can take away clearly from the surveillance video of the actual shooting, is that this firearm is is not that b and t vp9 that that we just showed on the screen. and the reason we can tell that is if you look at this video here, you can see when the shooter takes a shot that the gun actually recoils the slide on the gun moves rearward and covers up his hand slightly during that shot. you also see a puff of smoke come out of the chamber, and these are things that aren't possible on the btw on this gun that the police have suggested could be

the the firearm involved. this is a semiautomatic gun. clearly from this video. >> and and it's also not possible because there and correct me if i'm wrong here they are not looking at the pictures. they're different in terms of. so you're talking about that slide that slide reciprocating action on the gun that we see in the video there. the veterinary gun. if we could put up the picture of that again there's almost a knob or a wheel on the back of it. it doesn't slide. >> yes, yes. that's on the, on the rear of the gun. there we may have lost stephen for just a minute. >> we'll try to get him back but. but another reason why he says that in fact, that that didn't work. i want to bring in one of my one of my retired nypd friends here the other thing that has really struck me as well is that we we don't yet know what type of gun these bullets were fired in. right. so you have the casings. i mean, i spent enough time in police labs where you fire when we talk about the ballistic fingerprinting. so we know that that can link directly to a

specific gun. but even if you don't have the specific gun, doesn't it show the type of gun that that was fired from? >> well, i would think the police certainly know what type of firearm was used, or they would have a good idea. not every bullet can fit any gun, so they may have it narrowed down. now it's possible there are people that reload their own their own ammunition rather, and create their own ammunition, but it only takes a certain amount of time to measure the actual round and to determine what type of gun it came from. so there's a lot of speculation out there now with the different types of weapons and so forth. and i think this is one of those areas where the police are allowing this speculation to occur, because why give the person that you're trying to apprehend every last thing that you know? >> so you allow the speculation to occur, but bringing in the possibility of the nypd saying, the nypd actually saying to the times like, oh, yes, this is something we're looking into a veterinary gun that feels like there's a difference between

letting the speculation maybe bubble up a little bit and then saying, this is something that we're looking at. >> yeah, i think i think because of the fact that there was some sort of noise suppressor unit on the piece on the end of the gun, which to me to, to, to use that if you're, if you're trying to suppress the noise of you shooting somebody, but then you're doing it within a few feet of someone standing next to you and then someone in a parked suv, then what's the point? you know for it to go bang, bang versus poof poof. if people are watching you do it. so that was kind of odd. i thought, that's why the speculation of whether or not he was a hired hitman versus someone, you know, with a grudge, i was kind of like well, a hired hitman would would have been a ghost, you know, he would have been much more careful where he took that action. you probably wouldn't have may not have seen him come on the scene, but you definitely would have seen him just disappear instantly and wouldn't have left so many clues behind especially a backpack as well as some other evidence that's been collected so far. >> yeah, we have stephen we do have stephen back with us. so we were talking a little bit

stephen, just about how it's going to differ and also why it would make sense that the nypd is not saying too much about that gun right now. i know you wanted to walk us through a little bit more. why you believe that this this idea that they would be investigating a veterinary gun, that just also, again, why this doesn't add up in your book. >> yeah. and i think they're calling it a veterinarian. veterinarian gun because the vp9, the vrp stands for veterinarian pistol, which i'm not. i'm also fairly skeptical that this this firearm is ever used for some sort of veterinary purpose or, you know putting down livestock. but i think that's where they're getting that that label from. and then you know, in addition to the fact that you can see the slide reciprocate, you can also see them at one point trying to fix a malfunction by tapping the back of the slide. and again, on that bart gun that wouldn't do anything on a semiautomatic that's not going into battery properly, meaning the slide is not moving all the

way forward so you can fire that's why you would tap the back of it the way he does, as to try and clear that malfunction. and so there's there's at least 3 or 4 things that we see in the video that show this is a semiautomatic pistol. it is not a bolt action pistol like that bt gun i have, i have one here just to this video is obviously a little bit blurry. um but to to see what i mean by and this gun is cleared, there's no ammunition in it, but you can actually see here that when, when you fire a semiautomatic round, this is the slide here. this moves to the rear it extracts the round and it picks up a new round from your magazine and automatically loads it into the chamber. and so that's the motion we're seeing. we're seeing that slide reciprocate on that video. and that's how we know it's not this bt gun. it's some kind of other semiautomatic. we don't know what make and model because the video is just simply too blurry for that yeah stephen gutowski i really appreciate it thank you. >> still to come here was central park actually the

perfect escape plan? new insight tonight into the gunman's getaway. and what it may say about the potential level of planning. plus, americans venting their frustration at the health care and health insurance industry inside the intense, angry conversation taking place in america tonight scott luther. >> never too much new year's day at eight on cnn. >> growing your business is easy once you know the moves with godaddy websites plus marketing, you can quickly create a website and i will customize it for you. get your business out there and get more customers in here. no sweat for you anyway. create a beautiful website in minutes with godaddy. >> just take a little bit. know this part is never easy, but at least saving on your family's medication is prescription savings made easy? >> another good reason to check good rx. >> just a little bit more and you'll feel all better when i move you. >> move just like that. when i move you move just like that. when i move you move just like

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on. >> upgrade your office at branch furniture com the killer could have fled frankly, anywhere in the city after shooting unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. >> but we know he chose central park and likely for good reason. the sprawling 843 acre refuge may have actually provided him with the necessary cover to not only ditch his backpack, but it also offers several escape routes. our in-house lifelong new yorker senior data reporter harry enten joining us now. so, harry, as you do look at this park for viewers who are not familiar with central park, what really stands out to you? >> yeah, i've been there a lot of times. and the number one thing that should stand out about central park is it's just

freaking huge. i mean, that's the number one thing that should stand out. it makes up 6% of manhattan. there are eight lakes and ponds, so you could potentially drop that backpack anywhere. there are 700 or more garbage cans as of 2021. again a lot of places that you might have to search in central park if you're trying to find somebody or find a backpack. but more than that, it's really easy to blend in in central park and escape there without people noticing why is that? because get this there are about 50 exits and entrances from central park, and more than that, there are about 40,000 winter weekday visitors. so you can get out of the park really easily and you can really blend into the park quite easily, easily. >> erica. harry, police say the suspect also may have gotten out of the city by using the george washington bus terminal. >> yes. so the i have been to that bus terminal. it's actually fairly close to where i grew up and what you should know about it, it's really busy on your average weekday. there are about 900 plus busses that come in and out of the terminal daily. there are about 10,000 plus passengers who come

either in or out of the terminal daily. and more than that, there are a ton of potential destinations from the george washington bus terminal. look at this map right here. you can go all the way up. look at this. go all the way up to boston. you can go all the way down to philadelphia, or you can go all the way to western new york. so the bottom line is, if, in fact, escape through the george washington bus terminal, erica, he could have gone a lot of different places and now i'm going to toss it back to you. >> i will take it as you make your way over to the desk. when we look at all of this, i do i do want to touch on one thing. as harry pointed out, just how big the park is, i was struck by something that you said you are a lifelong new yorker. you grew up here all of those years in the nypd, and you said i could get lost in central park i don't know, central park like the back of my hand. i think that says something. >> absolutely. i've been in central park so many times i can't remember i've been to concerts. i've just. you know, caroused with friends all my life. and to this day absolutely. i can get turned around in central park in a moment so it is a very large park. it is a very complicated

place to find your way around. and it's very interesting that someone can come from out of town and within ten days, choose an excellent route to egress from midtown manhattan, right? >> although also, we should say while he made his way into new york city, we don't know. perhaps this person has some experience in new york city, spent some time here growing up. be interesting. hopefully at some point we will find out when we track this person down. you know, tom, as harry just pointed out to the sheer range of possibilities that you have leaving that george washington bus terminal, it's also mainly commuter commuter busses. rather, there are greyhound busses. there are busses that go upstate into niagara falls, but a lot of those busses are commuter busses. there's no passenger manifest. you're not checking anything. it is just a constant circle of people. how much does that complicate the idea that if and again, if because we don't know that he actually got on a bus because there is not an image of that, if he did get on a bus, we're talking about tens of thousands of

people, probably in a single day. yeah. >> well, that's one of the reasons why criminals, many times will use the mass transit system to escape, because you don't need id to get on the subway. you don't need id to get on an mta bus and similarly, here where with some of these bus tickets, you can buy in cash, right. and that's why people will tend to use those, those methods of transport. certainly if you wanted to go to jfk and hop a flight that wasn't going to happen, right? at least not easily. so yeah leaving going into the park as kirk was saying, was a great plan of action. you can again disappear between the people and the squirrels and then come out in one of 100 different directions. yeah and into just drop yourself right into a subway and be in all any part of the five boroughs in minutes. yeah. >> to therapy there's a subway at that bus station, too. there's a tunnel to get out. and again, he could have gone anywhere. casey, when you look at all of these moves, even just that final path what we have, knowing getting to that bus terminal, what we've seen very carefully covering his

face, except for that one moment, for that one flirtation with the hotel desk clerk. >> right. >> what does that tell you about what may have been next after getting to the bus terminal he knew where he was going, right? >> this is not the act that he's making it up as he goes again. he was here ten days, and as far as we know he came from atlanta. but we don't know that he's from atlanta he could be from new york city. the first place he went was the hotel. he started casing the joint, as we would say he figured out where he could find an alley and put that bike, his getaway bike he knew which way he was going to go through central park i'm sure he knew exactly which boulders he was going to put that backpack in and again, he ditches the bike he knows that the cameras are going to pick him up, which is why he always had his mask on. i mean, come on post-pandemic, not too many people have masks on, even indoors. and yet he had that moment of weakness, of flattery where the desk attendant asked him to pull down his mask a little bit flirtatious, and he did it. and

that's the best photo that we have of him right now. maybe not good enough for facial recognition, but today's technology, we're going to get a good image of him very soon. and once that's out, it doesn't matter where he took a bus the entire nation is going to be looking for him with his strong jaw and his big smile. and it's very likely that once that photo is out and especially if we have a name to go with it, he'll be apprehended very quickly. >> you know, i just am wondering, is sort of a layman in this. i'm not a criminal guy in terms of my understanding of the world, but granted, my father was a judge in the bronx for 20 years plus, but are we surprised that this guy has gotten away for as long as he has? and then also, how long once that face gets out there does, is he going to be able to be on the lam, or is he going to get caught within just days of if we do in fact get his face out there? >> i happen to think that if we get his name and his face out there, he'll either do something very desperate. when the jig is up. it's not surprising if and remember that suicide is self homicide so the idea that he's already killed

somebody, right? he's lost respect for human life. he knows that if he's caught he's done. he might take his own life, but he might also take the lives of others in the process because he has nothing to live for. in the meantime, he has started that conversation. you know, because of the writing on the bullet casings has started this conversation about the insurance industry. and by the way, that was his mission from the beginning. i have no doubt that that is exactly what he wanted us to do, and we're doing it. so for better or worse, the conversation has started and now that if he feels like his mission has been fulfilled, then all bets are off with regard to what he might do next. >> all right. stay with us. much more to come here ahead, the national conversation as we were just starting to talk about taking place, about health care in america, the anger, the rage at the center of all of it, and brian thompson's killing sending shock waves as well across corporate america. executives now scrambling for new security, a one time bodyguard of thompson is back with us tonight. and that and much more next. well

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join aarp dot org now. >> i'm jomana kouddous in the city of aleppo syria, and this is cnn a high profile shooting typically opens up a flood of thoughts and prayers. >> but when unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson was killed, many of the emotions expressed were powerful. they were personal and targeted at the victim and also at the health insurance system. here's cnn's jason carroll soon after the shooting of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson came the somewhat unexpected a flood of social media posts like these. >> i vividly remember being on the phone with unitedhealthcare for days and days nine months pregnant, about to give birth alone. >> it was a terrible, stressful, mad scramble. we appealed, of course, to united health care and they denied the appeal. within one day. >> if you're wondering, i'm

just saying my thoughts and prayers were also denied. >> i don't get it. >> thompson's death has not only opened the door for people to share their pain about how they say they were unfairly treated by united health care. it has also unleashed a torrent of vitriol against the entire health care industry ex posts like this are some of the tamer versions of what's out there. today we mourn the death of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. gunned down. wait i'm sorry. today we mourn the deaths of the 68,000 americans who needlessly die each year so that insurance company execs like brian thompson can become multimillionaires. then there's unitedhealthcare group's facebook posts about thompson, who was a husband and father of two. it reads in part, we are deeply saddened and shocked at the passing of our dear friend and colleague brian thompson. brian was a highly respected colleague and friend to all who worked with

him, so far. that statement has received more than 90,000 laugh emojis. >> i am surprised some of the backlash just because it's such a, um, really sad situation that has occurred. >> erin bradshaw has some insight into the current climate among patients and insurance carriers. she's an executive vice president at the patient advocate foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to improving health care access. >> it's an exhausting process you know. and on top of already being sick injured or disabled when they are running into a challenge with getting access to prescribed care through their insurer, it just it complicates it and creates multiple layers of frustration. >> unfortunately, sympathy requires a prior authorization, and i have to deny that request. >> as frustrations simmer online with dark comments such as may the

shooter never be found, my thoughts and deductibles go to the family. a new gallup poll found just 44% of adults say the quality of u.s. health care is excellent or good. the smallest share since gallup's tracking started in 2001. we also reached out to unitedhealthcare to try to get more of their perspective on this issue. they did not get back to us, but cnn has learned that unitedhealthcare has increased its security measures at facilities around the country. erica jason carroll for us tonight in new york jason. >> thank you. joining me now to discuss philip klein, who's the ceo of klein investigations and also a former bodyguard to thompson in the 2000. it's good to have you with us. um we look at what is happening now, and the number of security firms who say they have, frankly, been just besieged with calls for additional protection. how concerned? not only are you, but how concerned are your clients, your protectees at this point? >> well this afternoon we began movement of some of our higher up clients, some of our ceos

and boards board chairs, that sort of thing into different secured locations. >> nothing that is exciting or you know, we're just being very over cautious right now because of the package you just showed there is a lot of anger out there. there's a lot of angst out there. um, our san antonio division has moved. i think we by the end of day to day, we had moved three into a better secured location. one being a hotel, two being, um, you know, a secondary location out of the state of texas. um and the reason for that is we're just all being cautious where our phones are ringing off the wall mostly it's the wives of the ceos. if they're if they're male, if it's a female ceo, you know they're they're concerned for their children. uh, we're coming close to the christmas season. we're about one week out of, uh christmas break. so, you know they're not

scared to take their children out of school. i think we have one detail in austin area, austin, texas, that will have two of our agents inside a high school that will be be with two. two children. so i think that, um, you know everyone's taking it seriously on our side of the fence, which is personal protection officer side of the fence. we are taking it very seriously. not that we think there's a threat from this individual that acted out in in new york, but that the copycat theory, um, a lot of copycats could be out there people are emboldened now, as you see some of these people, in fact, when i watched your package just a minute ago, i was shook my head. i know some of these comments and some of these attitudes. i mean, it just it's really kind of scary to see. >> yeah it is on a number of levels i think you're right. you talk about the levels that you are taking. i am really struck by the fact that you have security detail in a high

school. i'm guessing these are the these are the children of an executive. um, as the mother of two high schoolers, that scares me. we look at this to the health care companies, you know, cvs anthem, they say they've removed photos of corporate leaders um, i mean, is that enough? there is so much information out there about people at this point. do you think they may start thinking about perhaps moving some of their people as well? >> i would think that would probably be prudent uh, the ones that are, uh that out are in public still um, we two days ago, we asked our high end clients to go ahead and start scrubbing their names off the internet. we started removing pictures. we started removing, uh, through databases. we started removing home addresses through county tax assessor and collector. uh and not only that, but public documents. government documents go in and start scrubbing the internet of where some of these folks live just on the safe side, i don't

want to create any hysteria because there is none this is very methodical. this has happened before. we're doing it again we're going to be very safe about it and we just want what's best for everybody involved. >> absolutely. philip klein, appreciate your insight tonight. thank you thank you. just ahead, it is the other big national story coming out of new york, a major blow to prosecutors in the daniel penny case after they take the drastic step of tossing the top charge against the former marine what happened and what it may mean for the jury still weighing petty's fate sunday on cnn. >> it's a night that's good for the soul. cnn heroes an all star tribute. >> thank you guys. >> meet the honorees and celebrate their life changing achievements. >> i'm an immigration lawyer and we are representing children for free. we help connect them with resources to help them be successful. >> this orchestra offers more than just notes. this orchestra offers something for your soul. >> we're normalizing that

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>> find the real you again. go to muesli.com/tv. >> closed captioning is brought to you by christian faith publishing. >> write for a higher purpose. publish with us christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands that your labor is more than just a book call or scan for your free writers guide 800 455 1827. >> the other case gripping manhattan and frankly, much of the country. this week, the trial of former marine daniel penny. after four days of deliberations the jury today

telling the judge twice they were deadlocked. they couldn't come to a unanimous decision. the judge ultimately granted a prosecution motion to drop the more serious charges second degree manslaughter clearing the way then for the jury to begin considering the lesser charge of criminal criminally negligent homicide remember, a penny is on trial here for the subway chokehold death of jordan neely it is proving to be as difficult a case for the jury as it happened for the public kirk burkhalter is back with me, along with former federal prosecutor and cnn legal analyst jennifer rogers. jen, as we bring you in to the table here, the judge's decision here to drop to drop this manslaughter charge, which the prosecution had asked for. does that seem like the right call? and how do you anticipate the jury will will perceive that? >> yeah, it's really interesting because usually a jury considers all of the charges before they go back and say, listen, we couldn't reach agreement on anything or we did on some, but not others. and then the judge kind of deals with all of it at one time. it's really unusual for them to do one count and then have the judge say, okay, well then i'm going to get rid of this

one, and now you can handle the other one. so it is unusual. that said, i don't really know what the problem is on appeal. if they do get the conviction on count two because you know all it means is that they haven't yet considered that count, they will now do so after having the weekend off. they haven't been it hasn't been coercive to tell them to go back and do it again. you use the word coercive. >> that's exactly what the defense is saying, that this is coercive, telling the jury to go back, telling them to start again. the judge has said initially you do have to decide on this first count first before you can look at the lesser charge. is it coercive? >> well, it depends, so it depends on typical lawyer answer. yes it depends on on whether the jurors who are holding out, so to speak are holding out because they believe that he should be acquitted. daniel penny should be acquitted or that he could be liable for the lesser charge. and that's a huge difference. you may have folks in that jury who believe he should not be held criminally

liable at all. you have to remember, this is new york and one thing most new yorkers have in common is they encounter people under mental distress on public transportation every day, and they have formed opinions. and those opinions are actually quite burned in their minds based on what we see. so i don't know if these jurors are going to change their mind no matter what the charges are. >> and some of those opinions, you know, we were we were talking about this a little bit in the commercial break is actually how people feel. a person who is in mental distress maybe should be dealt with on the subway, whether they should or should not be approached, whether they should or should not try to subdue them. that colors where we're at in this moment as well well, it's interesting because you have all these issues about what you think about what happened and then layer on top of that. >> for the jurors, the reasonable doubt. right. so all of us are like, well, it should be, you know, he did this. he did. this is right this is wrong. they have to follow this beyond a reasonable doubt burden, which is a very very high burden. so if you're not

sure whether he did right or wrong, whether in the moment he knew whether to release or not, you have to acquit. right? so, so that's the additional layer that the jury is having to deal with that all of us kind of discussing it around the table, don't being sent home to have a full weekend before the jury comes back on monday, who does that benefit? >> which side well i think that it would more than likely benefit the prosecution. >> gives folks an opportunity to want to resolve this and this is really not knowing where the imbalance is however, i really don't like to second guess juries because who knows what 12 random men and women are actually thinking as we look at this, you know, i mentioned we talk about how the country is divided as we know, right? >> we see it in new york. people have well formed opinions on this case. but to be on the jury for it, right. and to know that it's getting all this national attention,

that's also a lot to come into it is i mean, we saw it more than ever before when we had the donald trump trial in in april. >> in terms of pressure on jurors attention on jurors, this, of course, isn't that. but any case that gets national news, people know about they know that people know about and are following it. so it's probably in the back of their minds. but, you know, in a case like this, the judge will be careful to instruct them. i think it's an anonymous jury. so, you know, they're probably not concerned about their safety. they just know that out there is a good deal of interest. >> there are also the question there's a question about the charges. right. so if the manslaughter charge is now being dropped after prosecution asked that it be dropped um is there a concern that this could encourage overcharging at some point? and then we drop i mean, how could this how could this if at all, influence future cases? >> i don't know if it would necessarily influence future cases um, i don't think that the manhattan da's office would make that or factor that into its calculus as to what to

charge that, hey, we have this litany or this laundry list of charges that we can run through, so to speak. it would seem also a little unethical to do so. >> i feel like i've also been well schooled by every former federal prosecutor who i know have known for a long time that you never want to bring a case, that you don't feel that you can win, especially as the prosecution. >> that's true. this is a tough one, though. i mean, you know, people are saying, you know, why did they bring this case? you know, you have a man dead and a situation where, you know, something happened. there's definitely a question on causation defense is pushing that but at the end of the day, he was alive. he was choked. he was dead so, you know, it's a case you bring if the grand jury says so, that's probably ultimately what they decided. >> jennifer rogers brother, great to have you both here. appreciate your insight. thank you. thank you. and thanks to >> tonight i'm erica hill in for laura coast tonight. stay tuned. anderson cooper 360 is next