started with your idea. >> call now ( 800) 710-0020. >> breaking tonight a preview of what a pete hegseth confirmation may look and sound like. the president elect's choice to lead the pentagon. making an appearance on fox and telling sean hannity that stories about his bad behavior, including allegations of a non-consensual sexual encounter with a former colleague. well that they're all made up it was fully investigated at the time years ago, and i was completely cleared. >> and that's why, sean, you know what i look forward to? i look forward to the fbi background check. i look forward to the actual under oath conversations with senators as we go through the process, because again, this is what the left does. sean, it's the anatomy of a smear. >> i want to thank you all for being with us, for watching newsnight. you're now going to

killing of unitedhealthcare ceo is now in custody. >> he has been identified as luigi nicholas mangione the suspect was in a mcdonald's. >> my partner and i recognized him immediately he became visibly nervous kind of shaking. >> the note said quote, these parasites had it coming. an untraceable ghost gun put together with 3-d printed parts. luigi mangione was valedictorian. >> unfathomable knowing the kind of person that i saw and knew. >> police to pennsylvania with plenty of cash, a weapons. what was next? >> likely there was more on his agenda that he wasn't done. >> he is no hero. justice will be delivered in this case

more than five long days after it began, the manhunt for the killer is now over. >> but now that we know the man behind the mask the investigation tonight seems to just be beginning. good evening, and welcome to a special edition of laura coates live. police say they have their man captured inside a central pennsylvania mcdonald's, of all places on the very same day that his alleged victim, unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson, was laid to rest once again. our reporters, law enforcement analysts and profilers are live with me tonight for the next hour tracking every single part of this arrest and what happens next. but first, we're learning a whole lot more about the ivy leaguers suspected of the crime right now. you're looking at a mug shot taken today. his name luigi mangione in just moments ago, new york prosecutors officially charged him with murder. he is a 26 year old whiz kid with an impressive education who had never seen the inside of a jail until

tonight, when he was arraigned near altoona, pennsylvania. that's where he was picked up by police shortly after 9:00 this morning at a mcdonald's. looks like, frankly, any other mcdonald's. it's about 280 miles from the scene of the crime in new york city. and we're told mangione was just sitting there eating when a customer recognized him. that customer then told an employee who then called police, this is what mangione showed them when they got there. it's a fake i.d. the same one police believe he used in new york city and then this happened. >> he had asked the suspect if he had been in new york city recently. and that really invoked a physical reaction from the suspect. he became visibly nervous, kind of shaking at that question, and he didn't really answer it directly. >> well, he also had this gun and a suppressor. now it's a

ghost gun, meaning it's untraceable. and police say it was made through 3-d printing, and it lines up with the weapon that was used in the murder. and then there's the evidence that's giving us the biggest clue in the suspect's motivation. a multi-page, handwritten manifesto that rants against the health care industry. it appears to reference unitedhealthcare and suggests that violence is the answer. among the lines quote, these parasites had it coming. the allegations, let alone the manifesto, coming as a complete shock to those who knew mangione upbringing. he comes from a very prominent baltimore family was the high school valedictorian at one of the city's most prestigious private schools, going on to graduate from the university of pennsylvania and working as a software engineer. and if you ask his friends, they say they're stunned. >> it's unimaginable. you know, i was roommates with him. friends hiked, went to yoga he was, you know, did his best to be athletic and unfathomable.

knowing the kind, you know, person that i saw in new the story only beginning tonight, right. >> to cnn's brian todd in hollidaysburg pennsylvania, where luigi mangione was arraigned today. brian, we're hearing from the mangione family for the very first time. what are they telling us right laura, we have this just in from the mangione family. >> this statement issued by nino mangione, who is a cousin of the suspect nino mangione, is also, by the way a state delegate in the state of maryland. the statement reads in part, this quote our family is shocked and devastated by luigi's arrest. we offer our prayers to the family of brian thompson, and we ask people to pray for all involved. we are devastated by this news. we've also been gathering some information about luigi mangione past. we found out that he was valedictorian at his exclusive all boys school gilman, in the area of baltimore. that was in 2016. he graduated from the university of pennsylvania, an ivy league

school, in 2020. his family owns a nursing home chain in maryland and also a country club there. his cousin, as i mentioned, is a state legislator, so a fairly prominent family he comes from in the state of maryland in the baltimore area. also we have kind of pieced together some information about where he has resided over the past few years among the places where we have found out that he has lived are the states of maryland, pennsylvania and hawaii. now, one of his roommates in the state of hawaii, where he moved fairly recently apparently to seek treatment for back pain this gentleman named rj martin was on cnn earlier tonight. here's what he had to say about his experience with luigi mangione i first interviewed him before he moved in. >> i remember he said he had a back issue and he was hoping to get stronger in hawaii. so he's always focused on trying when he first came, he went on a surf lesson with other members and unfortunately, just a basic surf lesson. he was in bed for about a week. we had to get a different bed for him that was more firm, and i know

it was really traumatic and difficult. he mentioned, oh, i need to go back to see my doctor, and then i'm going to have to have surgery and again, to reiterate the charges faced by luigi mangione tonight, we just found out that in new york city, he is being charged with murder and also criminal possession of a firearm, among other charges. >> in new york city. now, here in pennsylvania, he is facing forgery and criminal possession of a firearm charge and a couple of other charges here in pennsylvania. he is being held at a state prison in huntington, pennsylvania. >> laura, brian, we know a little bit about his family and about from the roommate, but what about his online presence? have you had any information about that we do have some information about that, laura. >> it's pretty interesting he went on the the website goodreads, which is a website for book lovers, and he wrote about the unabomber's manifesto, the unabomber. ted kaczynski, who's been in prison for those bombings that took place between 1978 and 1995,

and his infamous manifesto that kaczynski wrote well luigi mangione did right on the website goodreads about ted kaczynski and his manifesto here's a quote from what luigi mangione wrote on that website. quote. and he's talking about ted kaczynski. he was a violent individual, rightfully imprisoned, who maimed innocent people. while these actions tend to be characterized as those of a crazy luddite, however, they are more accurately seen as those of an extreme political revolutionary. also, apparently laura on that website goodreads, he had expressed interest in wanting to get and read more and more books about having to cope with back pain. also, we believe that he sought books on mental illness and things like that. so just kind of a hint on on that part of his online persona. we also have seen messages to him on social media from friends and others who are wondering who were wondering before this shooting took place in manhattan that they were saying to him that they had not seen

him in a while. we're wondering where he was telling him that his family was also looking for him. >> brian, how many pieces of the jigsaw puzzle will this investigation lead? we're in the very beginning. thank you so much. i want to bring in john miller, cnn's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst. he was also formerly deputy commissioner for the nypd. john, we you and i were there on day one, wondering how long it would take before they were able to discover his person's whereabouts, let alone the identity. now he's been captured on the day of the funeral no less, and he has been charged with murder, among other counts, in new york. what stands out to you? >> well, what stands out to me is where he was captured, how he was captured. um sitting in a back table in a mcdonald's, noticed by a patron, called in by a waitress who pointed police to the back table. a man wearing a mask sitting there. um immersed in a laptop don't know what he was looking at in that laptop, but, you know, he had this. he had this backpack with these

other items. the gun, the silencer. um and this manifesto and you wonder what was the next step here? here he is. he's not in new york. he's not at home. police tell us he's moving between philadelphia and pittsburgh. um, and this manifesto refers to, you know, these parasites had to be dealt with in plural, with one murder behind him. so was there a plan to strike again against another victim? was it another corporate head or a hospital head or a health care head? was there a plan? we don't know, but the way that manifesto was written is almost, um in a manner of resignation. it's addressed to authorities and it seems to be written on the assumption that when it is read, he might either be in custody or maybe not alive so i think they are still looking for where was he going? what was he doing you

know, john, he's sitting in front of a laptop and he handwrites a multi-page manifesto that seems to be on his person as well just thinking about what his mindset may have been like at that particular point in time. >> the document itself, again multi-page, handwritten again, access to and literally in front of a laptop when he is confronted by officers. what do we know about the contents of that document? >> so that document is about, uh sorry, i apologize if i caused any trauma or any strife, but this had to be done. you know, these parasites had it coming and then he goes on to mention united which we are, you know led to believe is a is a reference to unitedhealthcare. the company that his victim in new york city ran and talking about its size, it's incredible growth and his claims that it is of its greed and how it is not

treating its consumers or patients well. so it's a bit of a rant in that manner. but he also, you know, mentions in the document that, you know, my electronics are fairly locked down, indicating to police that this, that this note is probably what you're going to get a good point, especially thinking if he believes, as you say, he may have been resigned to capture and perhaps not even surviving that encounter having it out and in front people to be able to readily access access is an interesting point here but talk to me about what else he had or other evidence authorities may be used in getting to recover from him. well that's critically important to this arrest, which is he has the firearm. it is a nine millimeter semiautomatic which makes it normal in gun terms, but it's a ghost gun, which means it is a self manufactured firearms. and what

makes it even a touch more exotic is it appears that the low receiver which is the bottom part of the gun, where the handle is attached, where most of the mechanics are, was manufactured by a 3-d printer. now we're talking about a guy who's got a master's degree in engineering the top part, the slide, which you see pulled back in this photograph seems to be purchased probably online and the other piece you see is the magazine, which has six rounds in it. now that's a magazine that probably holds 12 or 14 rounds depending on on the particular model. but we also know that in the new york shooting, they recovered six rounds. so with the additional ammunition that comes back to he had that gun, he had that gun loaded and thank goodness for those police officers he did not have that gun on his person. it was in this backpack as they approached john miller, thank you so much. >> i want to bring in josh skule who is a former fbi

senior executive and president and ceo of bow wave. eric fenton. he's a former detective sergeant for the metropolitan police department and catherine schweid, he's a she is a former fbi agent. look, you guys i have to we got to chew over what we've just learned because after five days, we now know this person has been captured. but the idea that it's a citizen just a civilian in a mcdonald's who happens to see this person and says, i know this person contact authorities. they come what does it tell you? that he was really in plain sight, out in the open? >> well, i didn't think he feared for getting caught. he was well distanced from new york city. he was altoona is a little bit more rural it's out there. hollidaysburg i'm familiar with it. it is not a well populated area, but i also would point out that this is not the first time a crime of significance has been solved by common citizens. it happens routinely, and the law enforcement needs the public's help. >> it's a good point especially how and the reason

they want that image out there immediately this was not kept that close to the vest in terms of his appearance. et cetera. they wanted the help catherine, during the hearing today, the only time he spoke up, i found fascinating. i mean, when prosecutors argued he should not be granted bail because of his criminal sophistication, citing a bag that he had on his person that could block cell signals, he spoke up to say, no, i just bought it because it's waterproof. of all the things to speak about that was the moment of contention. what does that mean? >> he's a little lost in minutia but you know, you can only hold somebody you know, as a former prosecutor, i'll say obviously, you can only hold somebody if they are a flight risk or if they're a danger to themselves or others. he meets both criteria. so the fact that he would even bring that up it seems useless. >> i mean, yeah, the minutia of it is really fascinating. and that's exactly where detectives have to go now, though, right thinking why that bag why the backpack? why the manifesto? all the questions actually begin at this moment.

>> absolutely our investigation starts now. actually once he's arrested and charged, the investigation actually starts. i believe. and as he stated earlier, the items he had it appeared that he wanted to do another crime. he's away 280 miles and he could have gone farther in the days that he had so i believe that's the fear of every law enforcement, right, getting him quick enough. absolutely. and i think he had time to either he had another target or he had time enough to get away further from law enforcement almost 200 miles away from the scene of the crime. >> they thought he left by bus right? they thought he came from one location. he ends up in pennsylvania is not that far away from new york compared to where he possibly could have gone through a bus road or otherwise had the same fake id on him initially cooperative, now not was that signal well, we don't know whether he was cooperative post-arrest at all. >> and law enforcement appears to have spent a good amount of time with him before his initial appearance. we know that he was nervous when he was approached, so initially not

combative. i don't know that he was cooperative. he had made mistakes, though, you know, he was giving them a fake id for whatever reason if he had given him his real id, they wouldn't have been able to match it to the hostel which is where they they matched the fake new jersey license, which might suggest that he has not been following how closely this has been put into the press that was known that he had a fake id at that hostel. >> that is a fake id back. >> it's true now, surprising to think that he wasn't watching the news. >> i would be surprised very shocking to think that he's not watching the news. he is all about information right now and getting his message out there. >> and why is that so important to him? the message itself, because that manifesto, i keep going back to the handwritten manifesto he's in front of a laptop. he's not waiting to type it. he's not sending it. he has it on his person as a prosecutor. what do you do with that oh, it's gold it's gold because it is handwritten. >> there is no question that he did it. it's his handwriting. you can match it. and also it really you when you're

handwrite something, it's emotion. you're writing with emotion and when you're typing it and you're printing it out him handwriting something he's been traveling around for three for 15 days or more he needs to handwrite. but who knows when that was written. it could have been written could have been written a month ago and yeah. >> and one more point on this. when they approached him and said they asked him, have you been in new york city recently? that was the moment he began to shake. you're a homicide detective imagine what that moment would look like. walk us through how that would feel. >> the body just starts moving uncontrollably. we can't stop those things it just happens. so then at some point, that's your almost your admission of guilt i'm the person that was in new york. i'm the person that did this. and what am i going to do next and you would lean in completely on that standby everyone, we have more to talk about this because still ahead tonight, those who know luigi mangione reacting in shock today. >> shock, including my next guest, a high school classmate of the suspect who says this is all surreal and later a former fbi profiler joins the

conversation with his unique insights into the alleged shooter and the evidence. the monopoly money, the real money. and the big question tonight was the gunman considering striking again. tim clemente who helped break the d.c. sniper case, standing by with his perspective jack the turkey with gravy and fixings. >> fa la la la la la la la la. >> that we are at a restaurant. >> tis the season for ham and pork roast. fa la la la la la la la la. >> good thing i forgot my hearing aid. we wish you a life you don't stop being you just because you turn 65. >> but you do face more risk from flu and covid. last year alone, those viruses hospitalized nearly 1 million people 65 and older. 1 million vaccines lower your risk of getting really sick so

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personalized treatment plan 100% online at forhours dot com. >> i'm bill weir on the california coast and this is cnn breaking tonight, friends and family of luigi mangione shocked to find out that he has been charged with the murder of unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. >> joining me now is a former prep school classmate of mangione, freddie leatherbury. freddie, thank you for joining. i mean, for you. you knew him in high school when you saw his picture, when you heard he had been arrested for this crime, what was your reaction well, thanks for having me. >> i thought it was a joke at first. to be honest, i could not believe this. based off everything that i knew about luigi from sixth grade on through 12th grade. it was just so surreal to hear you've known him for that many years. >> he's frankly, he's only in

his 20s right now. what was he like then? tell me about him well, he was everything you could want in a high school student. >> he was smart. he was driven. he was sociable, athletic. he was in all kinds of clubs. top of his class, of course. he was the valedictorian so he really had everything going for him. but he wasn't really snobby he was humble. he was unassuming and easy to approach. i wasn't personally terribly close with him, but i knew a lot of people who were great friends with him, and i was friendly with him at any given opportunity. he was he was a good kid. >> and your school relatively small compared to a lot of high schools, and thinking about an all boys atmosphere as well. the idea of proximity. was he political back then? did you ever hear about him having very strong stances, particularly discontent you know, that that was just not who luigi was. >> he was a guy who could have a conversation with go with the flow but you couldn't tell which way he would vote or anything like that. >> was he an athlete and did he

have or suffer from injuries that you could recall he was an athlete. >> if my memory serves me right both track and field and soccer, which are two really tough sports, of course during his time at gilman, i can't remember any injuries to be honest. >> he comes from a prominent family in maryland. what do you know about them the mangione is everything i've heard about them. >> are really wonderful people. they're serving the community. they're involved in their in their causes and their community. i believe they own a couple of country clubs in the area. i feel so heartbroken for them, to be honest. they're good people from all accounts, and i know this is just such a tough time for them take me into the group chat that you have freddie. >> i know you do with your classmates and other alum. all of you, i'm sure, are pretty shocked. is there anyone who's revealing less shock than you to be honest? >> no. um we had a class of about 130 people, and he was probably number 130 on the list

of who you would think could create something like this um, my friends are all as surprised as i am. i had a hard time believing it at first, and it's just a sentiment that's shared across everybody that i know is just pure shock. >> did you even recognize his picture as this person, luigi? >> not. not before the name came out, but after the name came out. i can look back at the security camera footage and definitely draw the connection. >> wow. freddie leatherbury sounds like the community is very shocked. thank you so much for joining. thank you. well, police are racing to determine why luigi mangione allegedly killed unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson. how did someone with so much promise as we're being told, end up as a suspect in a murder case that has shocked this entire country? well, joining me now, former fbi counterterrorism agent tim clemente, who helped capture the shooters in the d.c. sniper attacks. we all remember that manhunt involving two people as

well. you talked to me, tim. how did mangione go from a high school valedictorian? ivy league graduate? no one thinks he's got these grievances to now. a cold blooded killer allegedly. >> well, obviously laura, he was radicalized in some way and if he idolized the unabomber for reasons that we might not be aware of. but apparently he did. if those writings that were online were in fact attributed to him. and if this manifesto is attributed to him, he had a grievance, a grievance against thompson and apparently other people involved in the health care industry, because he, as john miller mentioned said these parasites. and that's very specific wording. that's not a simple typo. it's handwritten. so it's not something that he didn't intend to say. so i believe that john may be correct. there might have been other targets and you mentioned the d.c. sniper case. we were going through the same thing, head scratching situation where random people were dying. you know, many of them. and everybody was at risk

in this situation. you have a single individual clearly targeted but he may not have been the only target. so thank god nypd and all the other, you know, law enforcement that worked so hard and diligently to get to where we are today. >> and of course, he is a suspect. he is charged with the crime. the presumption of innocence will still be there. the investigators have their work to try to put that puzzle together but i'm really intrigued. based on your background, specifically with the d.c. sniper, there were a number of red herrings that were thrown out there by the d.c. snipers hoping to cover up their ultimate goal and crime that they were hoping, i believe, to target a particular person and everyone along the way was a collateral damage. and casualty. did you suspect that there were red herrings similarly right now, or that things that are coming in might present that yes exactly. >> laura. i mean, there was so much evidence pointing to a disgruntled customer or somebody that was angry at the health care industry and especially at thompson

unitedhealthcare, you know, the writing, the words on the shell casings that that just seemed like such an obvious and. >> yeah deny, deny yeah. >> and you know obviously it's most likely to have come from that book written in, i think 2012, about the health care industry and things have only gotten worse since then apparently. and so there's a lot of people there's a huge suspect pool that would be disgruntled at a health care executive especially one from the biggest health care company that is apparently denying more claims than any other company. and so you can imagine that suspect pool is tens of thousands, if not possibly hundreds of thousands of people. that's a tough nut to crack. but the fact that there was so much evidence pointing in that direction, it led me to believe that that's possibly a misdirect. and it was probably or possibly intended to direct law enforcement. and the investigators in one direction when it might have come from another direction. well, we'll see that wasn't the case well, certainly he is in custody, but that monopoly might that backpack, that recognizable

backpack that was being traced and that sort of steel ring of cameras in new york city, they found it had monopoly money inside. >> why the monopoly money, do you think? >> well, i think most likely. and this is a guess on my part, but based on the fact that this is about the richest health care company in the world, one of the biggest companies in the united states and in the world. and so maybe it was just to mock them that, you know thompson's dead, and maybe he had all the money in the world, but where is he now? and so, you know, in reality, the guy he killed, the poor innocent victim and i say innocent because he was truly innocent and didn't deserve to die regardless of what his company might have been and their policies. but you know, it might be saying that you know, the rich people that rip off us poor customers end up with nothing in the end, fake money we'll see the investigation really? >> now that we know the man behind the mask is the suspect. so presumption of innocence will have a lot more to investigate there. tim clemente, thank you so much.

>> thank you. laura my panel is back with me now. >> all right, listen, catherine, you were talking about this in our conversation earlier. the fact that this was, by all accounts targeted the way that he was shot from behind once in the leg as well. what did that tell you in terms of the assassin versus the amateur? >> oh, i think it can't have been. i think early on, all of us who work in law enforcement said it can't be an assassin. i know people are talking about it being an assassin, but it can't be an assassin because first of all, the first shot that went down into his leg is kind of an indication of a of an amateur firing a gun. so he may not really have had as much experience he did great things, like he cleared the gun. he clearly practiced. he knew how to clear when he when it jammed and discharged the extra round but assassins do things like we were just talking about at the break, about assassins. they don't walk past the subject. they shoot without plugging them in. maybe again. or they

turn around and walk away. there was nothing that really indicated this was an assassin. >> he also kept the gun. i mean, he kept the gun. why? >> that's a good question. he seemed to cover his tracks all the way along. was very meticulous. clearly did pre-planning surveillance had a planned escape route went into central park west cameras all the way along, and then kept the gun. the only thing i could come up with is it's a memento or more likely scenario, he wanted to use it again. >> there are people online right now who are looking at what's happened, and the word hero is being used for this individual. now governor josh shapiro had a very different take. he said he's not a hero he is a coward. and and we actually want to play for you all what he had to say in america we do not kill people in cold blood to resolve policy differences or express a

viewpoint. >> he is no hero. the real hero in this story is the person who called 911 at mcdonald's this morning this seems to be more than just ideological that there is maybe an eye towards preventing anyone from becoming a copycat yeah, and then we have the the other side of it where this is going to knock some more people to come out and do what he just did. >> um, if you look online, so many people that follow him and they have the same story of health care that's been denied and ignited a whole bunch of other people and having the same experience that he did. and now i think it's a security risk for for all executives in the health care to think about worshiping with columbine. >> excuse me. we saw a hero worshiping with columbine and other shooters we don't need any of these copycats. >> absolutely. i mean, the boston bomber was on the cover of rolling stone, wasn't he? yeah. i mean there was that moment and there was a lot of conversation about that very thing as what that said about a

society that was years ago. and here we are speaking about it again well, i think it's atrocious that somebody would think that it's okay to commit murder because of they they don't feel like they're being heard. >> that is not how we as a society, he will get what he has coming to him. i think we need to tamp down rhetoric. i think there's an acceptance more acceptable behavior going on these days that allows people to believe that violence is the only answer. and i think we need to do more to push that down. >> catherine, i think about this from a prosecutor standpoint. you've got a jury. you've got to convince ultimately, if he is sympathetic to people online, there is the potential. you've got a juror who might feel that way. >> a juror or the whole jury. right. i mean he's going to want a trial so he can have his day in the court of public opinion, very likely on less likely that he might plead out if he's charged and found guilty. but even if one juror. but what if the whole jury, he

could have all of the evidence that goes against him, and it could be jury nullification, meaning that the evidence is there. they really believe he's guilty, but they're going to find him not guilty because they're sympathetic to his position. >> who keeps this case in new york? they charge him with murder, but you could see some federal charges, possibly with the across state lines or having it in other ways. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> so who wants it? i mean you're in new york. >> you want the case, the murder, the murder charge takes precedent, right and so if they want to and as we saw, they've charged, made some initial charges. one being murder in new york. more charges are coming. >> yeah. and new york did all the work. they did all the. absolutely. they did absolutely great detective work and this is how they got caught. he put all the information out to the public, and it's sheer the sheer work of the detectives to get him out here and how he got caught. >> well, stand by everyone. there's so much more ahead on this day of capture. the alleged murder weapon, believed to be a ghost gun and potentially even 3-d printed. but how? and why would a gunman choose that kind of weapon? our

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placed my order. bring your own team together with custom gear. get started today at custom inc.com. >> i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn new revelations tonight about the weapon, the one that was found on the suspect in the murder of unitedhealthcare ceo, brian thompson. >> investigators say the firearm is a so-called ghost gun. they say luigi mangione had a backpack on him when apprehended containing, quote a black 3-d printed pistol and a black silencer. he also had ammunition. joining me now is cnn contributor, gun safety instructor, and firearms reporter for the reload dot com, stephen kotowski also josh skule eric fenton and catherine schwader back with me as well. all right, walk me through stephen the parts of this gun that were 3-d printed and what were not.

>> yeah. so in the picture that we have from the police, what you can see and we've got a great graphic for you here. all the parts in red are what's actually 3-d printed. the frame of the pistol as it's called. and the other parts there in white that we've outlined those are made in a factory, and you can buy them as individual parts and then assemble them into a working firearm. that's and it appears what has happened here. >> how long would it take to 3-d print a gun like this? i mean, it just sounds shocking to many people that that has the capability. >> yeah. so you only have to print the plastic parts, right? that's that's you can't print the metal parts, but it would probably take a couple hours on a recently, you know, decently modern 3-d printing platform. and and it's not honestly that, that hard to do. you have to have some level of knowledge about it. it is a bit of an enthusiast thing. still, for somebody to 3-d print these parts as opposed to a kit or something. yeah, usually if you're if the police are recovering unserialized guns like this, that's why they're

called ghost guns, because they can't be traced by their serial number, by the atf. and so that's where the nickname comes from but most of them are made from kits where a company has made the plastic part for you, but has only finished about 80% of it, and you have to finish the rest of it yourself and put the gun together. however, you can go this path, it's more of an enthusiast path to actually 3-d print it. if you know something about 3-d printing and you know you can get to the same end result. although the gun may not work quite as well as a factory made gun, and we kind of saw that in the video of the actual shooting as well because it seemed to malfunction. he had to correct it, and he seemed to know that it was going to malfunction. interestingly, the perhaps even more interestingly than the the frame being printed is that the silencer according to the affidavit, was also printed, which is i think, even rarer thing to see somebody actually do. it is possible but i don't i don't know that i've ever even heard of a 3-d printed silencer being recovered in a crime like this. it's a very niche sort of enthusiast thing to do but you can do it and it

seems like he has done that. we don't have a picture of it, so we can't quite verify it, but you know, i don't see any reason to doubt that that could be the case. he did 3-d print that the frame for that gun so he certainly had the ability and and the technology to do it. >> so yeah i mean, the use of a ghost gun or in this manner that can't be traced suggests at least some element of premeditation that you could not be detected. >> well, for sure i think we're seeing a lot of premeditation not just with the ghost gun, but that certainly went before he started. he got to new york. but let's be clear, law enforcement has been concerned about ghost guns for many years. when the 3-d printing became real and they were starting to recover them at the scenes of shootings and murders and other things, they weren't as prevalent as they're going to be as they are today, or where they're going to be in the future. but it's a huge concern for law enforcement and without, with the use of ghost guns in particular, that that is sometimes the best evidence to try to trace it, to try to link it to somebody else if you

have that untraceable feature of it, it can stymie the investigation. >> absolutely. it makes it much more difficult for you to backtrack the gun and find out where it came from. the origins of gun calibers, those things it makes it extremely difficult. >> so how do you use the fact that this is the type of weapon in the guiding of an investigation ultimate prosecution? >> it you tell the jury there's a reason why he's using this. he doesn't want to be traced. he doesn't want anybody to know it's him. he doesn't want anything to stop him from committing the act that he was going to commit. and part of that was going another way to get the gun instead of getting perhaps denied having somebody else see it, he secretly went someplace to get it because he wanted to have every advantage beforehand so he could finish his crime. >> we'll see how all of this plays out. just less than 12 hours away from when he actually was even caught. and suspected and arraigned. thank you so much everyone. still ahead tonight, the other major crime story getting a lot of

national attention. daniel penny is now a free man off the hook and acquitted in the chokehold death of jordan neely. but tonight, the legal fight may not quite be over. the attorney representing the neely family live with me next for his first cnn interview. since that verdict to stop luther. >> never too much new year's day at eight on cnn. customize and save with liberty mutual customize and save. >> and then i wake up. >> is lemieux with you in all your dreams? >> oh, yeah. >> only pay for what you need. >> liberty, liberty liberty, liberty for more than a decade pozega has been trusted again and again and again. >> first, he got ask your doctor about pozega introducing new o'rourke. >> scan gel. the first fda

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andre zachary and audible outbursts with expletives. he was immediately escorted out of the courtroom. now outside court, he expressed his disappointment i just want to say i miss my son. >> my son didn't have to go through this. i didn't have to go through this either it hurts really, really hurts what are we going to do? people what's going to happen to us now i had enough of this. the system is rigged. >> meanwhile daniel penny and his attorneys raising a glass to celebrate his not guilty verdict in nealy's death. kyle rittenhouse, who gained notoriety for his acquittal in a high profile shooting case in the wake of george floyd taking to social media to applaud the acquittal. i want to bring in attorney for the neely family donte mills dante. how is the

family feeling about the verdict? what are they telling you? >> they're devastated. there was a conversation, laura, that i had with them. where you always go in and say, there's a chance here that we get justice. there's a chance that jordan, who simply wanted to be heard, wanted to be seen during his life, would be seen in his death. and that didn't happen in the courtroom. and it was very hard for the family to take. and in fact, andre zachary jordan's father did have an outbreak in the courtroom because not only two rows behind him, someone was clapping that the person who took his son's life would not be held responsible, and that to me shows just a disregard we have to care about each other. everyone here is important whether you're homeless, whether you have mental issues. and one thing that i keep hearing, laura that i just want to talk about briefly is a lot of people say, well, where was his family then? that's not

how life works. sometimes people go through things and they have demons. andre's mother was killed when he was a teenager in the house, and her body was put in a suitcase and left on the side of the road he had demons. he couldn't. he couldn't get over. that didn't mean his family didn't love him because he couldn't be around people. it didn't mean that he didn't have people that cared for him because he did. the jordan neely, the neely family is full of love, but we all have family members that go through things that doesn't make their lives less valuable, and that was the feeling they got when that verdict was announced especially with that reaction in the room. >> unbelievably tragic with his mother and of course, his own demise. just heartbreaking for the family. what the father must be going through. and then there's the family of the defendant, daniel penny. and dante. his attorney is issuing a statement speaking about what has happened to his client saying for over 18 months, our client has lived under the weight of a criminal indictment, all the while guilty of nothing more than

trying to protect his fellow new yorkers from a psychotic madman with a history of violence, unquote. i wonder what your reaction is when you hear jordan described in that way. >> well, it just shows the lack of compassion and empathy, and it's not a realistic statement because when you break it down, there was no way for daniel penny to know about jordan neely history. he didn't speak to him at all. and in fact, the entire incident only took 30s within 15 seconds of jordan being on that train and screaming at people and making people afraid. daniel penny came from behind him and took him down the train arrived at the station 10s later. 30s later after jordan neely got on that train everybody was off the train. the threat was over and daniel penny continued to hold him and choke him for five and a half more minutes. when people were screaming, let him go! you're going to kill him? i got his hands. you can let his neck go because you're

going to kill him that is what daniel penny did wrong. we're not saying he's racist. we're not challenging. and we applaud people that step up when they feel people are in danger. but you can't take it too far. and if you do, you have to be held responsible. and that's all we're saying the jury didn't see it that way. >> why do you think that is? >> well, there was a question, right? they believed for the manslaughter charge. they were hung. they could not decide and the expectation was if that top charge was removed from the table, that they would come back with a decision on that second charge. they came back with a not guilty, which i don't understand because how could someone who's trained has military training? he's a brown belt in military karate training and trained with cpr. how could it be that he did not know that if you choke someone for six minutes straight, they would die? that's the question the jury had to answer. that's the question they struggled with, but ultimately came back on the lesser charge with a not guilty verdict. and i just don't know how to explain that

to the family, because if they believe jordan's life mattered you would have to say you would know if you choked someone for six nufar. >> well, you're following, i believe pursuing a civil suit against him. what are you seeking? >> we started already. we started the civil suit and we started it last week when we heard all of the evidence. once the evidence was in once we knew that the jury was out deliberating and they were on their second or third day, it was clear to us that there was enough evidence in this case for us to move forward with the civil case. we have the right in this country to bring a wrongful death action when someone dies at the hand of another, and the jury will have the opportunity to hold daniel penny accountable for his actions. and that civil case. and that's what we expect this fight is not over. we are going to stick up for this family. we're going to make sure jordan's voice is heard. he came on that train initially asking for food, and he was ignored and put in a chokehold we are going to step up and

continue this fight and make sure that his voice is heard and daniel penny is held responsible thank you so much for joining us, donte mills. >> i understand the family must be reeling at a moment like this. thank you. >> thank you for having me i want to thank you all for watching this special edition of laura coates live. >> our coverage continues welcome to times square that's not in my life cheers i was so embarrassing. >> new year's eve live with anderson and andy. live coverage starts at eight on cnn. streaming live on max. >> to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. last one everyone. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase inc. has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and

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