perfect shot. >> just the right pitch to cash in on prize picks. >> download the app. >> laura coates live next on cnn closed captioning is brought to you by skechers. >> men's slip in pants. >> are you still wearing regular pants when you can wear new skechers slip in pants? >> they have a stretchy elastic waistband. plus, skechers slip in pants are breathable and flexible. try new skechers slip in pants from the highest court in the land to one of the highest stages in the country, justice ketanji brown jackson made her broadway debut over the weekend of being lonely. >> is this the feeling i need to with tell me why? >> yes, that is a real

justice and a star on broadway. thank you very much for watching news night laura coates. live starts right now tonight, sadly, another place in america is grappling with what no community should experience. >> but frankly, far too many already have. madison, wisconsin is now having to mourn the victims of a deadly school shooting, this one happening at a private christian school called abundant life. two people were killed. a teenage student and a teacher. six others were injured, including two students who are still in critical condition. moments ago, police gave us an update on the shooter. shockingly, it was a 15 year old female student of the school. they identified her as natalie rupnow. she died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound

fired before police got to the scene. authorities are speaking with her parents, who are cooperating and have searched the home where she lived in madison. all of this happened just before 11:00 this morning inside a study hall classroom with students from different grades. here's how the police chief says the call came in a second grade student called 911 to report a shooting had occurred at school. >> don't let that soak in for a minute a second grade student called 911 at 10:57 a.m. to report a shooting at school. >> that is sinking in for so many of us out there. a source telling cnn the shooter planned the attack in advance, and she used a nine millimeter pistol. we still don't know her motive

or how she got the gun, but the lives of everyone touched by this tragedy will forever be changed, including the 420 students who attend the school. kids like this sixth grader. >> did you hear gunshots? yeah, i heard. tell me what happened. we heard them and then some people started crying. >> and then we just waited till the police came. >> and then they escorted us out to the church. >> how many gunshots did you hear? i heard two. and what were you thinking? what are you thinking now? i was scared. why did they do that? >> what why? >> just a sixth grader. i have a sixth grader, and i can't imagine what their parents are thinking about this evening. trying to process any of this. or the parents of this second grader. >> i was getting ready for lunch, so it was basically lunch time and then i just heard sobbing and there was a

teacher and she was screaming like, oh my leg! >> help, help! >> do you know that teacher? well, what was it like to hear that? >> were you scared? i was really scared and i was really sad. >> this little girl with a popsicle. you can imagine someone trying to give that to her. to try to give some comfort of what she must have seen and heard. she was asked about how she's feeling about all the other kids from her school, and she says she wants them to have happiness. do you realize this is the 83rd school shooting this year? 83 in this chart, it tells the story. it's the most in a single year since cnn began even tracking them, surpassing 2023, which surpassed 2022, which surpassed 2021. it's an upward trend going back more than a decade.

let's talk more about the investigation with tony pettis. he was the police chief in coral springs, florida, during the deadly shooting in parkland back in 2018. also here, neil franklin, retired maryland state police commander. tony, we begin with you here because police say that the shooter is a 15 year old female student. how rare is it for women and girls to be active shooters? and what does this tell you about this investigation well, first of all, thank you, laura, for having me on tonight. >> it's very unusual. uh, it has happened in the past, but, uh, usually, uh, girls are not, um, usually the offenders in these cases, especially a 15 year old. that's it's this is definitely going to be one that we're going to look into a lot in the future of the fbi. and, uh, just try to figure out how a 15 year old could get her hands on a gun and actually be

that, uh, plan all this, and nobody recognized it at home. >> that's such an important point, because we often look at these cases to figure out how to prevent them in the future. and so any outlier or otherwise can change the way in which you prepare or try to prevent as well. neil, police say that this attack was planned in advance and they are reviewing writings where she discusses certain problems. what does that indicate about a possible motive? anything uh, well, it certainly will. >> i'm certain they will find out what that motive is. this is usually the case that when we have these types of of school shootings where students are involved, there usually is a lot that goes unnoticed. you know, writings, drawings, conversations on social media, maybe little tidbits with their friends via social media and otherwise that people just don't become aware of or pick up on. um, as tony said, this is very rare with a young

female. um, you know, our young people, i think it was michigan. ethan crumbley, he was 15 years old also. um, in michigan. and, you know, we just recently had his parents being held responsible along with him for the shooting that occurred there. um, in wisconsin, i don't know what laws they may be looking at regarding the parents in here. and first of all, we don't know. at least i don't know how she got obtained access to the firearm. but if it was obtained from home, i do know in wisconsin right now, if you're under the age of 14 and that child gains access to a firearm in the home, then the parents can be held accountable. i know there's a current law on the books right now in wisconsin for that, but she's 15. >> the chief did say that there is no indication that the parents have committed any crime at this time. we'll certainly continue to follow

where that leads. but i certainly take your point about how we look at other instances such as this. let me ask you one more question about this, though, tony, because police say that they are aware of a manifesto floating around the internet, but they have not been able to authenticate it. what would police need to do in order to confirm if that manifesto is legitimate or not you know, every year since parkland, it's gotten worse and worse with the internet. >> um, establishing itself as a main source of news. um, so the police are really going to have to take a step back on this and really look into where that manifesto supposedly came from and the authenticity of it. um, but moving forward, i always try to tell, uh, whenever we have a shooting like this, you got to give it time. i know everybody wants answers right now. it could be an actual manifesto that was actually

leaked, um, inappropriately, obviously. or it could just be somebody just throwing out fake news. um, so they they. i have to tell you, i'm very impressed with the madison police department. i do believe they did a very good job in this case, and i think they're on top of it. i think their investigators are are spot on, and they're releasing information. remember, laura, that they probably have answers to certain things, uh, right now that they just will not divulge maybe until tomorrow or the day after because they don't want anything out that is, you know, is time sensitive. >> i certainly understand that, tony pustizzi excuse me, neil franklin, thank you both so much. we'll continue to look for answers. joining me now, melissa aagaard, county executive for dane county, wisconsin, where madison is of course, located. melissa, no one wants to be in the position of anyone in madison. no one wants to be a part of this sad

club that seems to be far more pervasive than anyone would ever want. there are two families who lost their loved ones just a few days before christmas, and melissa, i don't know if she's there with us right now, but we're going to continue to talk to her in just a moment. but i want to be clear, whenever i'm thinking about these cases, frankly, i've covered far too many of these mass shootings as we've all been learning more and more about them. i often ask the question of where is the motive? when i say motive, it's not justification. it's not some explanation that justifies the violence or the cruelty that is enacted. but we're left asking why, why? and here we are a few days before christmas. and melissa, i wonder how your community is coping tonight with wondering why. how could this have happened?

>> yeah. you know, i think that is a very fair question. and we don't have the answer to that for anyone in our community. but what i do know is that people are absolutely wrecked. we have children that experienced unimaginable violence. we have children that were at schools surrounding this school that were wondering if they were safe, as they were learning about the school shooting. we have parents who were devastated and couldn't get to their kids, didn't know if they were victims of this violence. school teachers that were on the front lines, first responders, 911 officers, police officers, firefighters that were on the front lines and hearing the fear and terror in people's voices. and it is our job as a community to make sure that we are wrapping a blanket of support around people as they navigate this unimaginable and horrific tragedy. and that includes the family of the perpetrator in

this case. it is absolutely devastating. and the time of the year, especially since this was a christian school, is not lost on me. >> we are collectively mourning. can you share any information about the victims yet we are not in the position right now to to share details of the victims. >> they were transported to our amazing hospitals here. those that needed emergency services and we as the county and our public social service providers were on the front lines providing support to the kids and families as they were reunified and our law enforcement officers are still combing through the reality of the carnage that occurred here, just up the street from where we are right now in the city of madison and dane county. it is a very active investigation and

what we need to know is that as a community, if there are people that are hurting, they need to call and reach out for help. we have resources available, and that would be a call that i have for people across the nation. we are not alone in this. it is unfortunate, as you had been talking earlier, that this is a reality for too many communities in our nation and not only do we need to address gun violence in our communities, but we need to make sure that people that are most impacted by it have adequate support so that they can heal as much as possible. and that is my job right now. >> melissa. as a mom, you and i both are. the fact that it's a second grader, a second grade student who made the first call to 911 about the shooting. what goes through your head when you hear that somebody as young as that had the wherewithal to do this yeah. >> well, first of all, what a brave child. yes.

>> excuse the trains. we have trains here in wisconsin. what a brave child for having the wherewithal to think that calling 911 was the right thing to do, and being able to hold it together. i will say i'm the mom of four and my own child who is a high school student here in the city at a different school. but a high school student was texting me as this was going down and saying, mom, am i safe? um, it is something that hits you in the gut as a parent, and i know that there are families right now in dane county that are wondering if it is okay to send their children to school tomorrow, and our schools should be the safest place for our kids to go, to be able to learn and to become good people in our communities. and it is just heart wrenching to know that people don't feel that, that our schools are safe right now. >> melissa, this conversation is happening across households

all across this country trying to help our youngest people, our bravest, even a second grader, feel safe. melissa agard, thank you so much. thank you. still ahead, judge juan merchan rejecting donald trump's bid to throw out his hush money conviction. the major ruling tonight and what it might mean for the legal fight over his sentencing. and later, conspiracy theories growing by the day over those alleged drone sightings. can the white house put an end to it? a member of congress trying to get answers joins me tonight. >> you make good choices it's a trait that runs deep. like to step into big shoes and still walk on your own path with ambition like that, you need someone who elevates advice to a craft. at ubs, we match your vision with insight and

expertise to shape a unique outcome for you. advice is our craft. >> confident about which used car to buy? nope. why not ask the most confident person you know? >> my old high school coach. >> just say show me the carfax value. you'll get the most accurate price based on the vehicle's accident history. shop at the all new carfax.com. >> nature has vitamin e from sunflowers. ours has retinyl palmitate, organic broccoli, carrots and blueberries. >> pyridoxine hydrochloride. >> so much harder to say than blueberry. natural whole food multivitamins available on amazon and natural. com when you live with diabetes, progress is having your coffee like you like it without an audience. >> the freestyle libre three plus sensor tracks your glucose in real time, so everyone else doesn't have to. and over

time, it can help lower your a-1c confident choices for more control of your life. this is progress. learn more and try for free at freestylelibre.us. >> help someone need a hug? sing to the world bah humbug. >> somewhere inside every lost grown up is the kid they once were. it seems to me they need us now more than ever. >> i'm enchanted to the world. >> joy to the wow. >> joy to you and me, berwick. >> every year, millions of noses are ghosted by their plugins. new airwick advanced our groundbreaking plugin that pulses scent for staying power up to 60 days, plus a fragrance boost button. our noses won't be ignored again. >> when i was younger, my calling was to play football. but as i grew older, i realized

life isn't about how many people you can knock down. it's about how many people you can lift up. at ram, our calling is to build game changing trucks. so when you find your calling, nothing can stop you from answering it. >> right now, during the ram wrap up the year sales event, get $5,000 total cash allowance on the purchase of z's bakery is looking to add a pizza oven, arissa's hair salon wants to expand their space, and steve's t-shirt shop wants to bring on more help. with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee,

they can think more about possibilities for their business and not the cost of their internet. it's five years of gig-speeds and advanced security. all from the company with 99.9% network reliability. get the 5-year price lock guarantee, now back for a limited time. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities™. blitzer tomorrow at six on cnn. >> brand new tonight. judge juan merchan denying president elect donald trump's request to throw out his 34 felony count conviction for falsifying records to cover up a sex scandal. saying the evidence presented in the case was not related to trump's official conduct and therefore not covered under the supreme court's immunity decision. keeping trump's criminal conviction that is, for now, at least. joining me now, cnn senior legal analyst elie honig. elie, good to see you.

look, the trump team is saying in a statement that it's a direct violation of the supreme court's decision on immunity to hold this way. >> is it? >> well, we don't know, laura. i mean, it's not a surprise that judge merchan came out this way. he's really ruled against donald trump on virtually every issue of importance. but the important thing to keep in mind is the immunity decision actually came down after the whole trial was over. so what we are trying to do here, what the judge and the parties are trying to do here, is apply that supreme court ruling sort of backwards. what trump said is, well, some of the evidence introduced against me at that trial had to do with my time as president. conversations i had with hope hicks and judge merchan today said, i think at a perfectly reasonable ruling, he said, yeah, but that wasn't official actions. that was your own political business, that was your own personal business. therefore, it doesn't count under the supreme court's decision. >> so what would this mean for sentencing? >> yeah. well, there's one other hurdle that prosecutors still have to overcome for sentencing. trump is making a separate argument that none of

this can go on as long as i'm now president elect on that issue. judge merchan has not yet decided. but if judge merchan rejects that and says no, we can continue. we can sentence you while you're president elect. then theoretically, the next step is going to be sentencing. but watch for this, laura. if that happens, donald trump's going to go to federal court. he's going to say, absolutely not. i'm the president elect. you federal courts need to block this state judge from dragging me in for sentencing. >> so should he wait for that moment or appeal now? >> yeah, i think he's got to wait for that moment. i think the appeal would be premature right now. not ripe, i guess, as we lawyers say. so you got to wait till you lose to appeal. and i expect trump would do that. >> oh, we can't give him legal jargon at 11:00 elie honig. i'm just messing with you, my friend. nice to see you. thank you so much. >> good to see you, laura. thanks. >> well, president elect trump just about accusing the government of a cover up over those mysterious drone reports. members of congress now about to get a classified briefing. so is it really all or nothing? we'll take you inside. the

efforts to track down those answers. and later, more than $135,000 raised for luigi mangione defense. the man behind the crowdsourced fundraiser joins me tonight as we get exclusive new reporting on the support. now reaching mangione behind bars. and i want to be the greatest player that i could possibly become. >> harry elle reeve the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin night and day. >> despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as two days, and some achieved dramatic skin clearances early as two weeks. many saw clear or

almost clear skin. >> rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections before treatment. tests for tb and do blood work. serious infections, blood clots some fatal cancers including lymphoma and skin. serious allergic reactions, gi tears, death, heart attack and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus with a heart disease risk factor. tell your doctor if you've had these events infection hep b or c smoked are pregnant or planning. don't take if allergic or have an infection disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. >> talk to your dermatologist about rinvoq. >> learn how abbvie can help you save berwick. >> every year, millions of noses are ghosted by their plugins. new airwick advanced our groundbreaking plugin that pulses scent for staying power up to 60 days, plus a fragrance boost button. our noses won't be ignored again. >> this is the sound of the season's favorite gift. for a limited time. omaha steaks is offering the favorite gift package that includes our famous bacon wrapped filet mignon, our delicious air

chilled chicken breast burgers, franks, sides, and desserts, all for just 89.99. that's 64% off. order now to include for more burgers free, and we'll deliver in time for christmas. this exclusive offer ends soon in quantities are limited. don't miss out! order today at omaha steaks dot com slash tv. >> i love this. >> hank used to suffer from what felt like a cold and flu medicine hangover in the morning. then he switched to mucinex nightshift. mucinex is uniquely formulated to leave your system faster, so you wake up ready to go. hank? dry mucinex nightshift and feel the difference. >> my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis held me back. now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clear skin. things are getting clearer. yeah, i feel free to bare my skin. >> yeah, that's for me. nothing is. everything. whoa. >> with skyrizi three out of four people achieved 90% clearer skin at four months,

and most people were clearer even at five years. skyrizi is just four doses a year. after two starter doses. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur before treatment. get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu like symptoms or vaccines. nothing and me go hand in hand nothing on my skin. >> that's my new plan. nothing is everything. >> now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the

to stop luther. >> never too much new year's day at eight on cnn. >> the government knows what is happening. i think they'd be better off saying what it is our military knows and our our president knows. and for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. something strange is going on. for some reason. they don't want to tell the people and they should. >> president elect donald trump, weighing in on the

mysterious drone sightings occurring across the northeast. when asked if he has received a classified briefing, trump succinctly said i don't want to comment on that. well, the house intelligence committee is set to receive a classified briefing tomorrow. the white house reiterating tonight there is no national security threat. >> all the leads and the analysis we've done, we believe that these are commercial, lawful drones or law enforcement drones, hobbyist drones. i can't rule out the fact that we might find some sort of illegal or criminal activity, some nefarious activity. all i can do is tell you that right now we see none of that. >> joining me now, one of many lawmakers demanding answers, republican congressman from new york, nicole malliotakis. thank you for joining us this evening, congresswoman. you know, i spoke with admiral kirby this morning and he mentioned the need for more

legal authority to address and also manage this, what he's calling the air traffic flow. congress would need to approve that. would you be in favor of expanding that authority? >> well, i think we absolutely need to discuss how we get our airspace under control. as far as i know already, there are very much restrictions in place on on recreational as well as commercial drones. and it really begs the question why, if these are recreational or commercial, they're flying over military installations. and that insensitive infrastructure as well. i think that's a key question that i have for these agencies. it seems that we can't get answers. i've also requested a classified briefing. i was told that they could not accommodate one. and i'm in a district that is most affected by this drone activity. and for me, that is absolutely unacceptable. >> so heard of an instance, congressman, when you have you've asked for a classified briefing and you've been told

they can't accommodate. did they give you a reason as to why you can't get those answers? >> to be honest, no. usually we are accommodated. we are able to get answers to our questions. and in this case, it's just very odd because the answers that they've been providing to the public just don't make sense. if these are recreational and commercial drones, why are they flying over sensitive infrastructure and military installations? i still believe that this is a government operation, and perhaps they're testing new equipment. perhaps they're doing some type of drills related to counterterrorism. perhaps you're looking for something, but they should be honest with the public and let us know. i feel like every day it seems that the story is changing and it's not making much sense to me and so many others that i serve with in the house of representatives. >> now they are having a briefing, i think, for the house intel committee. i know you're not a member of that, but it does beg the question as to whether this ought to be

conveyed to more than that particular committee. if there are so many questions that have been asked, there have actually been some drone sightings in your own district. and i wonder if speaker johnson telling you anything. do you have any insight as to this? perhaps being a government thing going on? >> no, the speaker has not indicated that much, and i'm only i'm only basing this on the information that i received today and trying to put the pieces together. i've also requested from our intelligence chairman that i be waved on to the committee and be allowed to participate in that briefing tomorrow. being that i represent staten island, new york, which has been one of the areas where you've seen the most drone activity. you know, these are densely populated communities. we have high rise buildings in new york city, as you know. and, you know, any type of accident, any explosion, any anything, any crash could be very detrimental and life threatening to the people i represent. and so either way, there needs to be a

limit to this type of activity. it cannot continue the way it has over the last few weeks. it is it is so it is so crazy. i can't even describe, you know, they filmed war of the worlds in my district 20 years ago on staten island, and that's almost what it feels like in the evening with all these helicopters, all these aircrafts, these drones, noise. and it's just it's ludicrous. and congresswoman, some type of control to the situation. >> excuse me, can i ask you this. i on the one hand and i'll play devil's advocate for a moment. on the one hand, it must be impossible to prove a negative. on the other hand, i wonder what the white house would need to say to give you some solace or your constituents convincing that what this is is really benign. is there anything in particular? is there information that you're looking to get? are they withholding that specifically, or is it just the basic of they're not telling you anything look, i don't i

don't believe that there is a foreign nexus here. >> i believe that we have the intelligence and military capabilities, uh, to, to to intercept something like that, despite what has happened previously, you know, with the chinese spy balloon and all those things that people felt that the government, including myself, felt that the government did not respond in a way that preempted what occurred there, which they may not want to for national security reasons, reveal the details. but they do need to say something. >> well, congresswoman nicole malliotakis, we'll see what they eventually say. it has been going on for weeks, and i suspect they believe they've given enough answers for now. thank you so much. >> thank you up next, brand new information on the outreach to luigi mangione behind bars, a public fundraiser for his defense now jumps to a goal of half $1 million. >> the man behind that effort joins me tonight. plus, will mangione defense rely less on

disputing the physical evidence and more on a mental evaluation? my legal experts will weigh in next. >> all there is with anderson cooper. listen, wherever you get your podcasts. >> want a next level clean swish with the whoa of listerine? it kills 99.9% of bad breath germs for five times more cleaning power than brushing and flossing alone. get a next level clean with listerine. feel the whoa. >> if you're one of the 70% of adults struggling with their weight, struggling to access care, struggling to find treatment that works. the problem isn't you. it's your healthcare. hims clears the path to affordable, personalized weight loss plans for those who need them through hims, a range of treatment options including compounded glp1 injections, are currently available and ready to be delivered to your door. real change starts here with hims.

>> you don't stop being you just because you turn 65. but you do face more risk from flu and covid. last year alone, those viruses hospitalized nearly 1 million people 65 and older. 1 million vaccines lower your risk of getting really sick so you can keep doing you. >> hank used to suffer from what felt like a cold and flu medicine hangover in the morning. then he switched to mucinex nightshift. mucinex is uniquely formulated to leave your system faster, so you wake up ready to go. dry mucinex nightshift and feel the difference. >> hi, i'm greg, i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor, i'm just a regular person. after working 25 years in the automotive industry, i retired eight years ago. i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen

and i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. i've been taking prevagen for eight years now and it's still helping me tremendously. >> prevagen at stores everywhere without a prescription. >> the online store that was just breached has my payment info. >> during the holidays, think of all the places that can expose your info. >> lifelock monitors millions of data points for identity theft. if there's a problem, we fix it. guaranteed. >> berwick. every year, millions of noses are ghosted by their plug ins. new airwick advanced our groundbreaking plug in that pulses scent for staying power up to 60 days, plus a fragrance boost button. our noses won't be ignored again. slow down, honey, a new driver. >> you need new insurance. >> zebra compares over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can. up to $400 a year. oh, look. it's my.

stop, the zebra. we do the searching, you do the saving. >> i didn't do this for the lights or the fame. i did it to pay it forward to the next generation of athletes and pass on the support my family gave me. i believe in sofi because they gave the same support to millions of members helping them bank, borrow and invest for their future. >> because for most people, it's not about the lights or the fame. it's about their ambitions. sofi, get your money right. >> do your dry eyes still feel gritty? rough? or tired? with my bow, eyes can feel my. bow. yeah. my bow is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye. too much tear evaporation for relief. that's my bow. >> yeah. >> remove contact lenses before using my bow. wait at least 30

minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. what does treating dry eye differently feel like? i go, oh yeah, for relief. that feels i go ask your eye doctor about prescription bow now is not the time to lose faith sisterhood above all. >> doom prophecy. streaming exclusively on max. >> laura coates live exclusively learning tonight that luigi mangione has received 32 emails and two pieces of mail in prison so far. that's according to the prison that's detaining him, and he could be about to receive a whole lot more than words. more than $135,000 has been raised for luigi mangione legal defense fund. it's a crowdfunding effort started by a group called the december 4th legal committee. their total

fundraising goal as of now $500,000. and they just might get there. the organizers, alluding to the date unitedhealthcare ceo brian thompson was gunned down on the streets of manhattan. but they say it's not about the violence. from that day. they write this is a preemptive legal fundraiser for the suspect allegedly involved in the shooting of unitedhealthcar e ceo. we are not here to celebrate violence, but we do believe in the constitutional right of fair legal representation, unquote. but as for the people donating, well, some of them are full on celebrating mangione actions, and the donations are coming in at all sorts of amounts from the highest at 1300 bucks, some as low as $5. one person writes under their $10 donation. i'm quoting here the shot heard around the nation. we cannot let it be in vain. you made the first stand. thank you. another

person donated $500 writing this. i hope this entire event leads to a rethinking of the wealthy people running this country. health insurance has been a scam for far too long, and it needs to change. stop talking about it and do something. i want to bring in sam beard. he is the spokesperson for the december 4th legal committee and the host of party girls podcast. sam, thank you for joining this evening. how many donations have you received this far, and are you surprised to see the level of support for someone who is a murder suspect laura, thank you for having me on and for covering this important topic. >> so, so far we have received over 4700 individual donations, averaging about, it seems $15 or so at the median there. and to be honest, i'm really not that surprised that that all of this widespread support has sort of risen up in this moment

for this young man alleged to have taken action in this way. i think americans are are fed up with the way of the that the health insurance system operates. >> when you think about the you said taking action in this way, he is accused of having committed murder. you've gotten people who've donated to the fund who are embracing and celebrating that murder of this man. brian thompson what do you say to your critics who think this fundraiser is cosigning that murder? >> well, at the end of the day, every american has a right to a fair trial. and i think for every person who who might be, you know, exhibiting some sense of joy, there are ten people sort of asking the question, well, who's the real murderer in this conversation? you know, we're talking about the largest and most successful private health insurance corporation in the history of humankind, right? which is

successful precisely because they generate profits by denying claims, among other things. just to quote one donor here directly, quote, we do not condone murder. and for that reason we cannot condone the actions of unitedhealthcare. luigi was standing up to his systematized murder of millions of americans at the hands of a broken health care system. >> when you hear that, of course. first of all, i'm a former prosecutor. everyone deserves a proper legal defense. and frankly, he is presumed innocent at this point in time. they have a burden of proof that they have to carry out. but when there seems to be the equivalence drawn between gunning somebody down in the streets and again, he is presumed innocent, but somebody gunning him down in the streets, and then the idea of a health insurance company behaving in the way that has led to you believe the deaths of people as well. are you concerned that that sort of equivalence is going to instigate further harm yeah,

that's a good question. >> you know, um, as a moral matter, it's horrible when anybody has their life cut short by another person, especially when it could have been prevented. right. but that same logic has to apply both ways. a ceo had his life short, a world renowned ceo, for being very effective in his field, mind you. but he was effective because he profited from denying people's claims which cut their lives short. so we can't just apply a simple moral rule without acknowledging that we're in an immoral system that degrades the value of some lives, while elevating the value of others. and i think what's sort of plain as day at this point is challenging. that is, above all, a political act. and when we treat it only as a as a moral act, i think we're plugging our ears to its political meaning. >> i certainly hear the political consequences and conversations that are going on. this will be dealt with in the criminal court system. so

the idea of how it will be addressed will be quite distinct from that overall conversation. i'm learning, though, that one of mangione lawyers told my network that he would not accept the money. so what will your group do with it? >> so i'm wondering if that's the conversation that happened about a week ago. i'm not sure. >> um, has there been a recent development that you think he will take the money? >> no, but there's been a recent development in terms of sort of an expanded legal team. so i would imagine there's different decision makers in that process. um, and we have yet to establish a two way communication with, with their newest legal team. um, we have contacted them via telephone, email and good old fashioned snail mail. >> well, we'll see what happens. thank you so much for joining us. sam beard thank you. well, mangione is pegged to be in court next week. we're not exactly sure how his lawyers plan on defending him specifically, but we are

getting some clues. i want to bring in charles patrick ewing. he is a board certified forensic psychologist and a distinguished service professor and professor of law emeritus at suny buffalo. also here with me. joey jackson, cnn legal analyst and defense attorney. glad to have both of you here. joey, let me begin with you. can you first quickly explain to us why mangione has a second degree murder charge as opposed to a first degree charge in new york? >> yeah. >> laura, good to be with you. so what happens is, is that in new york state, first degree murder is reserved for the killing of a police officer, a peace officer, a judge, a correction officer, a first responder. you don't generally get first degree murder unless it pertains to one of those issues. the only other conceivable way that it could be first degree is if it's in furtherance of some act of terrorism, which could be a viable charge, depending upon, of course, what authorities continue to find with respect to his that his luigi mangione,

uh, mind state of mind mindset as it relates to the actual crime murder in the second degree, however, is preserved for everything else, and that is intentional murder. and so generally, people who are charged in new york state with murder are charged with murder in the second degree. absent one of those delineated consequences or actions that i noted before, really important to get that distinction. >> thanks, joey. let me turn to you, charles. we're getting some hints as to what mangione defense could possibly look like. a former cnn contributor karen agnifilo just signed on to represent him a few days earlier. here's what she told cnn. >> and so it will be interesting. you know, it'll be interesting to see where the opportunities are for him to defend himself. and it's looking more and more like i think he's going he could potentially mount a psychiatric defense. you know, i think, you know what what maryanne was

just saying is, exactly right. because the because, you know, was he playing to the cameras versus is he having some sort of psychiatric event happening right as we speak? and are we watching it in real time on tv, that those are some of the things that that that will be come into play? i think in this case, charles, how hard is it to get this kind of insanity plea or an extreme emotional disturbance plea if he gets offered a plea at all to have this line of thinking well, it's extremely difficult to make out an insanity defense, especially in new york state and new york state. >> the burden of proof is on the defendant to prove, first of all, that he was suffering from a mental illness or from a mental defect, as the law says, uh, which would be the equivalent of an intellectual disability. uh, that's just the beginning. once you have that, then you have to establish to the jury satisfaction that you either

did not know the nature and consequences of your acts, or you did not know that your acts were wrong. that's a that's a tough sell. uh, about maybe somewhere less than 1% of all criminal cases that go to trial. go to trial with an insanity plea. and among those cases, i want to hear that point, but go ahead, charles. >> excuse me, excuse me. >> yeah they almost never result in a finding of insanity, but it's so difficult to get that finding from a jury. uh, and, you know, without speaking to the merits of this case in particular, because i don't want to do that. but i will say that it's a virtual certainty that his lawyer will consider an insanity defense and will have him examined by a forensic psychologist or psychiatrist, or maybe, maybe even more, uh,

but given what we know. from what is currently in the in the public domain, uh, it will be an extremely difficult case to to get a judgment of insanity. >> joey, let me turn to you. i assume it will be a kind of the battle of the experts on this kind of point. this was seemingly a. well organized or planned shooting. irrespective of what happened in the end, in terms of him being caught. but could either of these psychiatric defenses be compelling, considering the fact that there was apparently significant planning yeah, i don't think so, laura. >> i don't think that that's something that's viable at all. why? because of what you just noted. this is a person who apparently had some kind of vendetta, whether he was insured or not. right? by unitedhealthcare. apparently he was not. his family wasn't didn't matter. right? he was going to target the face of that. it was clearly well

planned. he had his weapon planned. he came. he lied in wait. in doing it, he had his manifesto. so i don't know that that occurs. what's interesting to me, though, is that this might be a case of what we call. and you know very well is the excellent prosecutor. you were jury nullification, right? i know it's crazy to say that where just to explain jury nullification is when a defendant did commit the offense, but a jury excuses it. we're living in bizarre times. have any of us seen social media? he celebrated as a hero like robin hood. he saved the day. can't believe it. your last guest was speaking to that issue. unitedhealthcare is evil. you know, these people deny claims. it's amazing. and so we have a circumstance where forget about the insanity plea, forget about the extreme emotional disturbance that he could argue right at a trial. this might be a case where you rail against the injustices of unitedhealthcare and the jury says, you know what? that makes

sense. they're they're selling things about him, their shirts that say saint luigi on them are gadgets for christmas. i'm like, are you kidding? and so this might be a case, as hard as that is to believe. and as hard as it is for me to say that notwithstanding the compelling evidence that he might have a shot. >> well, charles patrick ewing, joey jackson will continue to rely on both your expertise. thank you so much for joining this evening. >> thank you. thanks, laura. >> up next, trump sues the press. the president elect putting in iowa pollster and her paper on notice threatening a new lawsuit and vowing legal action over certain coverage. the message she's sending and how the courts might react this time around. next what are folks 60 and older learning these days? >> new perspectives. this is pretty how to fix things fun recipes.

>> we're society in crisis. but what if we turned our disagreements into discussions? >> conflicts into opportunities? >> what if we acted a bit more civil? you see, civility can sweeten even the most bitter conversations. >> and at sherm, we know people and businesses work best when we choose civility. >> so join me. >> join me in starting 1 million civil conversations. because civility is a language we can all understand from creating memories. >> to finding the perfect gift

let us make this holiday season a little easier right now, save up to $60 on select as battery sets. >> happy holidays from steel. >> someone need a hug? sing to the world. >> bah humbug. >> somewhere inside every lost grown up is the kid they once were. seems to me they need us now more than ever. >> i'm enchanted drawn to the world joy to the people. >> see? wow. >> joy to you and me. >> let's monopoly go. hehe. chris kiki. >> ready? tycoons. it's go time. cash grab kiki!

>> i won again ah, daddy will be back soon oh, we're swimming in it now. >> let's do. >> busted. >> nothing beats playing with friends except bankrupting friends. give it to me. >> give the omaha steaks favorite gift package that includes bacon wrapped filet mignon, chicken burgers, franks sides and desserts for just 89.99, you'll save 64%. order.

bring your own team together with custom gear. get started today at custom inc.com. >> this is cnn, the world's news network. closed captioning is brought to you by skechers men's slip in pants. >> are you still wearing regular pants when you can wear new skechers slip in pants? they have a stretchy elastic waistband. plus, skechers slip in pants are breathable and flexible. try new skechers slip in pants. >> tonight, president elect donald trump renewing his fight

against the media over critical coverage with new threats of litigation. >> i'm doing this because i feel i have an obligation to. i'm going to be bringing one against the people in iowa, their newspaper, which had a very, very good pollster who got me right all the time. and then just before the election, she said i was going to lose by 3 or 4 points. in my opinion, it was fraud and it was election interference. we're filing one on 60 minutes. you know about that. where they took kamala's answer, which was a crazy answer, a horrible answer. and they took the whole answer out and they replaced it with something else, she said later on in the interview. >> this, as abc news has agreed to pay $15 million to a presidential foundation and museum to settle a defamation suit brought by trump against the network. and george stephanopoulos. this after the anchor inaccurately said trump had been found civilly liable of, quote unquote, raping e.

jean carroll. the jury had actually found that trump civilly liable of sexual abuse. now trump is appealing the verdict and denies wholeheartedly her claims. i want to bring in cnn chief media analyst brian stelter and trial attorney ken turkel, who represents a number of high profile figures, including sarah palin and her defamation suit against the new york times. and he also previously hulk hogan in his suit against gawker. ken, let me begin with you here. defamation suits like the one against abc news are difficult to prove. yet there seem to be more and more of them. why is that? >> i think it starts with the courts being more tolerant of letting the claims survive to trial. >> um, they go to trial now, laura. you know, 30, 40 years ago, they really didn't. but there's a number that have gotten to trial recently. i think a lot of it is that, as you know, you have to get a fact issue to get to trial. so usually these are tested on a motion to dismiss. and if you can survive that legal

threshold attack i think that the internet impact on media on libel claims is that fact issues are coming more frequently that can be framed to get them to trial, and i think that's a large part of it. >> i mean, he's accusing ann selzer, formerly of the des moines register and the newspaper of election interference and fraud, based in part on some negative poll data. do you see merit in that claim, or is it frivolous? >> i think i missed the boat because i was getting ready. i analyzed it under a libel sort of framework. i it would be a bizarre libel case, because i don't even know that the statement being made is of and concerning donald trump. right. it's a statement about a polling result that he just happens to be one of the subjects of. so i there may be claims there. i don't really see a libel type claim there though. now, if she got a result and then knowingly reported a different result than the poll had produced.

well, yeah, i could see that. okay, interesting. um, i'm interested to see what they come up with though. >> um, let me turn to you here, brian. yeah, well, the legal theory is one we're all waiting to hear more about. you know, it seems it might be a trend. brian, you've got some reporting on the abc news settlement. why did they agree to this multimillion dollar payout to trump or the foundation? >> i was told by an executive at the network we just needed to make this problem go away. >> abc, of course, is owned by disney, a giant company. and for these giant companies, sometimes it is easier and better to pay $15 million and a million in attorneys fees to make a case like this go away. perhaps there were embarrassing emails or text messages that came out through discovery, and those were about to be, you know, come up in the deposition in the coming days. that's the leading theory that i've heard. but it is clear that a company like disney doesn't want to be in litigation with a president elect about to take office. and this is about a wider chill

that trump wants to see and have in the air. it used to be, laura, that trump would file these nuisance suits against media outlets, and they would almost always be thrown out. but the fact that abc had to settle this and decided not to go to trial, it is going to embolden trump and his allies. and no longer is this about nuisance lawsuits. this is now about a systemic effort to chill the press, to tie journalists up in knots. for example, the iowa case, it's using the iowa consumer fraud act. it's very unlikely that trump will prevail in iowa. but that's not the point. the process is the point. having to go through the motions and pay all the money for the lawyers is the point. i think lawyers are going to benefit from this effort, but everybody else is going to suffer because journalism, because newsrooms, because media outlets are going to be tied up as a result of this effort. >> ken, you seem to agree. >> i don't. i agree with some of it. um, the as to the abc settlement. look, this is a unique situation. you've got a plaintiff who's about to

become a sitting president. i have, uh, had a case in front of that judge with that defense team, with davis wright. and they are very good at what they do. okay. i was very surprised. this never happens. in my cases. i had jason miller's case. there against gizmodo. and in front of that very same judge, i don't know that it chills the the circumstances are very unique. this is a how do you have this case with a sitting president when altonaga wasn't going to stray from the trial order, the scheduling order, and they were going to trial in april? um, there could be some fear about what happens should he get elected. um, you know, there was not enough discovery for us to get information like we got in dominion fox. so i don't really know, you know, and i don't know about the chilling. i do know this. he's aggressive, >> no way to deal with it. but the courts. that's the only way to regulate