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se similar type of treatment, ask your retina specialist about eylea hd today for the pote from creating memories to finding the perfect gift. >> let us make this holiday season a little easier. right now. save up to $60 on dialect as battery sets. happy holidays from steel! >> i'm rahel solomon in new york and this is cnn breaking news just in to cnn. >> the federal reserve announcing its latest decision on interest rates. what this means for everything from credit cards to the housing market. plus new details about

the 15 year old girl who killed a teacher and fellow student at her wisconsin private school. her home life now in the spotlight as investigators search for a possible motive. >> and it is a bird. it's a plane. it's probably not a drone. that's the whole point here, is that more sightings are reported. we sent aviation correspondent pete muntean out to do his own. investigation, highly informed into what's happening in the skies over new jersey. and we are following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to cnn news central thank you so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. >> i'm boris sanchez with brianna keilar in our nation's capital. and we begin this hour with breaking news any second now, we are set to find out if the federal reserve will follow through on expectations that they will cut interest rates. >> let's go straight now to cnn's matt egan, who is live for us at the federal reserve. what can we expect? matt

well, the federal reserve just slashed interest rates by a quarter of a point. >> this was the third straight interest rate cut, and it was widely expected. this means that the fed's key borrowing rate is now a full percentage point lower than where it was back in september. and for borrowers, this is good news because it's going to be a little bit cheaper if you're carrying credit card debt, you're trying to get a car loan or perhaps even lower mortgage rates as well. but the bad news here is the fed is signaling that they want to tap the brakes on interest rate cuts next year. that's because fed officials just put out new projections where they are now penciling in only two interest rate cuts for 2025. that is down from the four cuts that they had been signaling back in september. so that means, yes, borrowing costs could still go lower. but perhaps not dramatically so. there was also some new language that was inserted into the fed's

statement that signals that they may want to pause here, because fed officials now say that they will consider the, quote, extent and timing of future rate adjustments. in other words, don't just assume there's going to be another interest rate cut in january. now, there's also some significant changes to the economic projections that were also just released that do help explain this thinking. specifically, the fed is now bracing for a little bit hotter inflation next year than in the past. they're now penciling in and projecting 2.5% inflation at the end of 2025. that is up from 2.1% that they had been expecting back in september. and that does help explain why the fed is signaling they may want to pause here. there's also the fact that the economy continues to grow at a significant pace, and the unemployment rate does remain low. there's also so much uncertainty about the agenda from the incoming trump

administration and whether or not tariffs and potentially deportations could actually make prices go higher. later this hour, we expect to hear from fed chair jerome powell where he's going to take questions and he could drop some more clues about what's ahead next when it comes to interest rates. >> and to that point about the agenda in an incoming trump administration, i mean, trump has come out and said that he believes that the fed should take more direction from the white house. i wonder if you expect that powell may answer questions to that effect. matt. >> well, jerome powell has made clear that he really takes seriously the idea and the importance of central bank independence. when i asked powell back in september about this very issue, he pointed out that central banks around the world that are independent from the influence of politicians, they actually have lower inflation. so we should expect

powell to reiterate the importance of fed independence and that they don't take orders from politicians. and he's made clear in the past that he would not step down even if the president elect asked him to. of course, the president elect has also said in recent weeks that he expects that powell will be able to serve out his term. of course, a lot can happen over the next few months when it comes to how financial markets are going to react to the latest fed moves, to the latest inflation readings. and of course, the incoming policy changes from this administration. boris matt egan live for us at the federal reserve. >> thanks so much, matt. turning now to capitol hill and as house republicans wrap up their own investigation on the january 6th attack, they've concluded that former representative liz cheney should be investigated by the fbi. >> that's right. for probing what happened in that attack and looking at the role of then-president trump in the insurrection. joining us now is former u.s. attorney harry litman. harry, this report is

alleging witness tampering by liz cheney with star witness in the january 6th hearing. cassidy hutchinson is there any merit to their claim here? >> none that i can see. this is really brass knuckles stuff, brianna. all they have is they were communications between cheney over a signal line, so they don't know the content. and cassidy hutchinson that happens with witnesses in every hearing. and what happened here, if you may remember, is that she hutchinson initially had a lawyer paid for by the trump organization who had told her in her account not to be forthcoming. and then she got another lawyer and gave all kinds of details about january 6th, about mark meadows and the like. so the idea here is that she was lying the second time when she gave the fuller account, and that congresswoman cheney somehow was corruptly

persuading her to do that. it's something that no self-respecting prosecutor would think about at the doj, but we have the full on orwellian nightmare, possibly, that it's referred over and a trump bondy doj decides, well, maybe we will look into it. and if nothing else, make a lot of trouble for liz cheney, not to mention cassidy hutchinson. >> harry, what about the speech and debate clause? does that shield former congresswoman cheney it's arguable. >> boris. you could go either way. the classic is activities on the house or senate floor. this is related to a witness. the latter mill and an interim report says no. i think the better argument is yes. but the bigger point here is nothing wrong happened. they communicated with a witness and helped her get another lawyer. so the speech and debate is an

extra potential level of protection. i think the doj would consider that. but really the the initial charge just is completely empty. >> so the report says that the fbi should prosecute cheney if kash patel becomes the fbi director, does he have discretion on something like that? >> well, here's one thing we know trump could order it even illegally. and it would. he'd be immune under the supreme court. but the i think the short answer, practically speaking, brianna, is yes, because that's the way trump is now reforming the doj to say orders come from the top. so i think if they decided they want to do it, there would not be a legal impediment. it's it's really down the middle of the things we are afraid of. now that the department is going to be taken over by loyalists to

trump, who want to go after people who they thought were disloyal to him last time around, like liz cheney. >> there are significant protections, though, harry, from from federal criminal investigations that exist around members of congress and the legislative work that they do. do you expect that cheney might be protected from legal action? and if not, do you think she would benefit from a pardon by president biden? >> well, that's a really interesting call generally about the pardon. she would benefit, i think. and you're right, boris and general, when you if you would actually try to unveil a charge like this, there would be eight problems with it. could they, however, investigate in a way to make trouble, make her pay a lot of money? that's always a secondary agenda that they can try to implement. and the answer there is they could. but yes, at the end of the day, this will won't go anywhere.

there's no chance she will be convicted of this charge, which requires that she somehow be trying to make cassidy hutchinson lie. so it's not going anywhere. but in the interim, could they make trouble and expense for her? dirtier, up in the public? yes, possibly. that's the exact thing we're worried about with the patel pam bondi trump lineup and the. in starting january 20th. >> yeah, absolutely. harry, thank you so much for your insights. we do appreciate them. robert f kennedy jr. says he'll be back on capitol hill after the holiday break as he lobbies to become the nation's next secretary of health and human services. it's a huge department that oversees medicare, medicaid, the cdc, the fda and a number of other agencies. rfk jr. told reporters that he'll be pressing democratic senators for their support of his confirmation. he's been meeting with republican senators this week and face

questions about several of his controversial positions. a known vaccine skeptic, kennedy has also challenged big pharma and the corporate agriculture industry. joining me now is doctor deborah birx, who served as the coronavirus response coordinator in the first trump white house. she is now a senior fellow at the bush institute and a professor at the texas tech university health science center. doctor birx, thank you so much for being with us. you've heard rfk jr.. he says here recently that he's all for polio vaccines. but the issue is really one, not just of being for a vaccine, but whether you believe it should be required. and a mandate is something that president elect trump has made clear. he has issues with. and there's also this issue of where rfk jr. may stand on other vaccines. do you have concerns about how much influence rfk jr.. may have on public health policy based on his own beliefs? >> well, let's separate the two issues. let's separate

childhood vaccines from adult vaccines because i think childhood vaccines have really proven how critically important they have been. in fact, many children today do not get a smallpox vaccine because through vaccination, we were actually able to eradicate smallpox. and that's what we were on our road to do with polio. and that's why they switched the polio vaccine from a live attenuated vaccine to a whole killed vaccine. and that is part of the controversy. but we're on our way. hopefully, to actually remove polio as an issue. and then we remove those vaccines when it's no longer an infectious disease threat. i think what president trump and robert kennedy are speaking to about relevant to mandates is the whole issue of the mandate around the covid vaccine. and i was really intrigued by harry enten data that really showed how much hesitancy has gone up just in the last four years related to that mandate. and i worked epidemics all over the

world. it's much more important to educate and listen to communities than it is to mandate, particularly around adult issues. >> i think we've also heard trump speak about the mandate in the context of the polio vaccine, even as he's championed it. so you've also you're aware of where rfk jr. is on mandates for childhood vaccines. so i know that you're separating the two, but i don't know that these gentlemen always do. does that concern you then, that it could influence public policy based on rfk jr.'s personal beliefs that may not be backed by science? >> you know, i've already seen the significant increase in vaccine hesitancy, and i think some of that and i would say all of it often is on us as public health individuals, because it says to me that we're not reaching people with adequate information that they

feel comfortable with what's being discussed and what we're asking them to do. and so i have found throughout and this reason, i spent seven months on the ground going from state to state during covid, because you cannot analyze an epidemic or community's needs from a computer in atlanta. you have to get out in the communities and ask and answer their questions. and you can learn a lot about their concerns, and then you can put your words in a way that we're addressing their concerns. at the same time, we're increasing everyone's understanding about immunology and how these vaccines work. i think because we have applied that the covid vaccine could protect against infection, and then everybody knew it didn't, but now they're questioning, did we somehow mislead them on childhood vaccines? and we know childhood vaccines protect against both. in fact significant infection disease and long term herd immunity, which covid vaccine doesn't do. and so i think we have a bit muddied the picture. it's on us now. and to use this

opportunity during the senate briefing for the senators and the staffers to come forward with that data and use this really as a time to educate the american people and get everybody on the same sheet of music about how their immune system works and how important vaccines are. >> yeah, there was a lot of confusion around that. whether it would stop infection or whether ultimately what we saw was it stopped. a lot of people from dying or being severely infected. after the trump administration, you revealed that while you were working as covid response coordinator, someone was delivering a parallel set of data to trump about the pandemic. so you've seen that happen before. do you worry what that means? if it happens again? >> well, i consider that all of our jobs, those of us who work in science and public health, it's our job to make sure that the american people have the

information that they need. and more importantly, we listen to their concerns because i keep hearing people saying, you know, this is this and this is that, but we're not really addressing the american people's concern. they see the rising rates of autism. they want to understand it. okay. it's not vaccines. we've agreed that. but what is it then. so they want an explanation for what's causing these rising rates. they see increasing rates of cancer in young adults. >> well, i'm tracking you on that, doctor birx. but i guess my question is, and i think i don't think anyone can argue with the idea of listening to people's concerns, meeting them where they are. but if the president, soon to be president, receives alternative facts that are not true, which was your experience when you were in the white house, what is your advice to someone who needs to combat that very importantly, find those who will listen to you and are influencers. >> and that's what i did. and that's, you know, whether

it's the governors of states or the mayors or other individuals within the white house, there's a lot of people in the west wing. i found them, most of them very easy to work with, and they were very helpful to me in making sure that the information that was really the science and data across the president's desk, in a way that was understandable and clear. and i think sometimes in public health, we don't explain things in a very clear way, and sometimes just a simple graph will convey the information. when words don't. >> do you think? sometimes, though, even if you're explaining it clearly, if some other information is coming in, that appears to be explaining it clearly but is not based in science, but is believable to the person you're explaining it to, you really have your work cut out for you. you may not prevail in convincing them well, you know that's true. >> in every pandemic all over the world and dealing with presidents and prime ministers at every president and prime

minister i've ever dealt with once a pandemic that they want, not the pandemic that they have. and that's always true because you have to deal with the most vulnerable in a community, the most least understood, the most marginalized. and it's our job as public health officials to stand up for those individuals, to make sure their voices are heard. and i have every confidence that there are people that will make sure that that happens. i know i am one of them. i'm going to continue. i go out on both what people would consider right wing media, as well as what people consider left wing media, because i think information is information and everybody should have it doctor deborah birx, thank you so much for being with us. >> we appreciate your time thank you. and coming up on cnn news central, police in wisconsin are searching for a motive in monday's deadly school shooting. we're going to tell you what we have learned about the suspect. >> andy. take a seat, anderson.

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>> a shelter isn't just a place to rest. when our homeless neighbors feel safe enough to close their eyes, they can see the way forward. love. it. >> are you ready for this? are you ready for this? are you ready for this? >> new alka-seltzer plus cold or flu? fizzy choose chew. fizz. feel better. >> fast. >> no water needed. new alka-seltzer plus fizzy juice. >> i'm doctor sanjay gupta in atlanta, and this is cnn there are some new details emerging about the 15 year old girl who opened fire at the abundant life christian school in madison, wisconsin, on monday, killing a teacher and fellow student. >> six other people were wounded, including two with life threatening injuries. the city's police chief says the biggest priority right now is determining the motive of the shooter. >> court records obtained by cnn show that the teen's parents divorced and remarried, and then divorced again, and

that she had been enrolled in therapy. cnn's natasha chen is here with details. natasha, what can you tell us? >> well, boris and brianna, the court records show sort of a complicated situation there, as you mentioned, divorced, remarried, divorced again. and it seemed, at least in one of those divorces, the custody arrangement involved bouncing back and forth a couple of days here, a couple days there in a very complicated schedule. so that's right. now what we're reading through. she had been in therapy. and, you know, this is a lot of what the police are combing through right now looking for documents that might have been taken from her home to see if it matches what they understand is circulating out there as some of her writings that they cannot yet authenticate. now, we did also see a photo of her that was posted by her father on social media of her at a shooting range in the last year or so, where she is wearing a shirt that has the name of a german rock band whose lyrics were

also cited by the gunman in the columbine school shooting in 1999. that is also something that investigators are looking at. and meanwhile, you can imagine this community is still just reeling from this tragedy, trying to find answers, holding vigils. here are some of what they're telling us as they cope with this yesterday, the madison community experienced a terrible and traumatic event, and we will never be the same but we will get through this and we will get through this together by relying on each other and by taking care of each other. >> how many more lives need to be lost? how many more lives need to be taken for people to wake up? i mean, our children, our loved ones are stuck between a crossfire. when is it enough? when is it enough? >> we're also hearing from students and parents who have told us about the teacher who was killed, saying she was kind

and caring, that she would have done anything for her students. boris and brianna. >> natasha chen, thank you for that. coming up. keeping up with the drones. one month into these mysterious sightings over new jersey. cnn speaks with experts and residents searching for an explanation for what is in the sky. can't fool myself. >> it was the most exciting time in the world. >> his life had extremely joyful moments and some really difficult moments. >> you only come across an artist like luther vandross once in a lifetime. >> luther. never too much new year's day on type two diabetes. >> discover the ozempic tri-zone oh oh oh ozempic. i got the power of three. i lowered my a1 c cv risk and lost some weight. >> in studies, the majority of people reached an a1 c under seven and maintained it. >> i'm under seven ozempic lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack or death in adults. >> also with known heart disease. >> i'm lowering my risk and

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fbi says it has received over reported drone sightings in the last month. that's a lot. and authorities say they're still following up on about 100 of them. president biden addressed the issue last night. >> there's nothing nefarious, apparently, but they're checking it all out. >> there's a. i think it's just one. there's a lot of drones authorized. he's up there. we're following this closely. and so far, no sense of danger cnn's pete muntean is back from new jersey, where residents and law enforcement are working to unravel this mystery in the sky. >> and pete, my group chats have been lighting up. people have all sorts of theories. are you an alien, pete? is that what this is? i come in peace. you know, we we heard so, so many theories. >> just last night on the boardwalk in seaside heights. but the federal government has really been adamant here that this is really case after case of mistaken identity. the fbi deemed only 2% of your. to do the math of those tips legitimate enough for follow

up. i'm about to show you how experts debunk these drone sightings. local police departments are doing it, and now you can too we are on the lookout for drones with drones, where fears first took off. new jersey ocean county sheriff's sergeant kevin fennessy is one of about a dozen drone officers responding to calls and now tracking flights from inside this major crimes command center, now turned into a drone war room. >> it's wild the amount of air traffic over new jersey, and especially over ocean county. >> the sergeant says, sure, many of the calls the department gets are actually airplanes, helicopters, medevacs planets, even stars. but they have seen things they just cannot explain. a sheriff's lookout drone tethered to the ground captured this video. >> we had something coming at us. and as it's coming at us, it stops. you know, just like a 180 in the air and then drives away and then comes back and does like a giant you around

us. so that's that's not normal for aircraft. >> so this is really happening. >> we think so. you know it's definitely something that whatever we're seeing we can't figure out what it is. >> the federal government reiterated tuesday that the vast majority of purported drone sightings are, in fact, airplanes or drones flying legally with no threat to public safety. but don't say that to the folks on the seaside heights boardwalk who were not shy to tell me about what they have seen. >> i think it's drones. too many people have seen them to it not be real. i haven't seen it. i do think it's legitimate, but i don't believe that nobody knows where they're coming from. >> i haven't seen any legitimate drone sightings in this current flap around new jersey. >> science writer and conspiracy expert mick west investigates possible drone sightings and says that you can too, if you get the details, the date, the time and the location, you can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what direction they were looking in. >> and you can see, you know,

that it was actually just a plane. >> we're on the boardwalk. the sun is set and the sky has really come alive. you can see almost why folks are reporting so many drone sightings off in the distance over the atlantic ocean. there i can see several planes. i'm corroborating here with the same app that they use over in the command center. this is called ads-b exchange, showing within about a 20 mile view, planes broadcasting their position live. there's an atlas air cargo flight that just left not too far away from here, going out over the atlantic ocean. there's a delta flight that's coming in over the atlantic, turning north to go into jfk. and then another really bright light above those two. that is jupiter. but it's the things that cannot be explained so easily that if folks here really concerned deputies like kevin fennessy hope the truth is still out there. >> we're not drone hunters. we're just trying to see if we can figure out what's going on, where they're coming from, and try to put this to bed new drone technology is on its way

to a pair of military bases in new jersey, naval weapons station earle is close to where i was in seaside heights, only about 25 miles away. >> the goal is to detect, identify and track drones, not shoot them down. rather jam the signal between the controller and the drone in hopes that the drone is essentially programed to land itself. they call that a signal interrupt, so the working theory here, pete, there's a number of things happening at once, right? >> you could have people misidentifying things. you could have some kind of government thing that people don't know about. that's a possibility, not likely to be intelligent life from another planet, right? not likely to be some foreign mothership, as one congressman put it. but you also have the potential that people see the attention this is getting and then throw their drones up there to try to drive people nuts. >> here's what i think. i think both things can be true at the same time. the vast majority of these are mistaken identity. these are airplanes and planets and stars. that's

what people are seeing most often. and that's what these local police departments have to debunk for folks and show up and say, that's jupiter like we did on screen there. but there may now be because of this hysteria and this frenzy, people using their consumer drones for nefarious reasons, essentially like trying to screw with people. and so maybe both things can be happening at the same time. and really, it's on people to be good actors if they have a drone to follow the rules. and the one other thing that we're hearing a lot of now is that people say they want to shoot down the drones. we even heard it on the boardwalk last night. people are using a consumer laser pointers and pointing them at airplanes, which can be a huge threat to safety because it can temporarily blind pilots don't do it. it comes with a huge fine from the faa, and it can also lead to criminal charges. >> not to mention you're putting lives at risk, no doubt doing that. pete martinez it sounds like the new crop circles. >> that's right. exactly. >> yes. but in seaside heights, signs, that's right. signs in seaside heights. >> pete muntean, thank you so much. any time. we have a lot

more news to bring you, including some really serious stuff president elect trump has promised mass deportations as soon as he takes office. a new cnn report, though, shows that many of his plans are very similar to president obama's border policies. we'll break down the deets when we come back okay, everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. >> ensure with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health, and ensure complete with 30g of protein known for pursuing your passions? no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is early stage non-small cell lung cancer. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies before surgery. when you have early

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joining us. obama had actually earned the moniker. i think some people forget deporter in chief at one point, but i wonder what you are learning about this, priscilla, and the person who was at immigration and customs enforcement during that time was tom homan, who is president elect donald trump's border czar. >> now, when you strip down the plan that they are publicly saying that they have, which is targeting public safety threats and national security threats, that is what obama did. and it's also similar to what he did when it comes to what they call quote unquote collaterals. that is that if you target a criminal, but he is at a household where there are other undocumented immigrants in the household, that they too could be subject to being detained and then deported. now obama's policy eventually evolved a little bit on that, but it did occur then, and it is something that tom homan has said he would be willing to do under the incoming administration. another similarity family detention. president joe biden

suspended family detention. immigrant advocates have long criticized it. well, it actually expanded under obama as he was responding to families at the u.s. southern border that is expected to make a comeback. now, the numbers sort of back up the moniker. so under former president barack obama, you had 2.9 million deportations in the first term, you had 1.9 million. in the second term. both of those terms still more than what trump was able to accomplish in a single year. however, and this is critical. obama, at its height, only was able to deport 400 around 400,000 people. so there are limitations to these operations. but immigration and customs enforcement is still pretty routine. and when trump aides talk about it publicly, that is ultimately the basics of what we have seen. it's just that over the course of the biden administration, a lot has been pulled back, and that has led to some people perhaps forgetting how it was in previous administrations. now i want to leave room here for the fact that the president elect has also floated draconian measures. he has cited the eisenhower administration and

their unprecedented sweep of undocumented immigrants. they talk about using pentagon resources in a way that we haven't used before to detain those in the united states. so there are certainly ways in which they could take this a step further. but if you look just at the basics of what immigration enforcement has been in this country and what it was under, for example, former president barack obama, it all does line up publicly with what his aides are saying. >> jeff, you obviously covered the obama administration. talk to us about some of the key differences here between what trump has said that he's planning and what obama actually carried out. >> i mean, to priscilla's point, i think one of the biggest differences. there was never a threat of using the u.s. military to round people up. so i think it's the size and scope and just the language that is being used. and we've heard for months and months on the campaign trail, you know, immigration was a central message of the former president's. >> now, the president elect, we will see how many he how many people he's actually able to deport. to your point point, priscilla, i think it's a good

one. it is actually hard to deport a lot of people. so i think the size and the scope is one of the biggest differences here. and just the methods of being used. i mean, the military again, is not used routinely. it's against the law actually. but he is saying the president elect and his team are saying, you know, if these folks are criminals, they could perhaps use the military. so i think that's the biggest difference. but you're right, there were so many deportations in the obama administration, so few in the biden administration. so that is why it's a bit of a disconnect. >> but to be clear, military bases have been used. the bases, yes, the previous administrations, but not the the military personnel, for sure. they have always been in a supportive role, et cetera., and that is not they're not law enforcement. >> that's not the purpose of the u.s. military. >> yeah. and trump has said that it's going to be very tough. this process of deporting and detaining immigrants. but how long might it take for him to implement these policies? >> he said he's going to start at the very beginning, in the

first hour. of course, it's a long list, as we've talked about, of things he wants to do on day one. but i think that could take quite a long time. i mean, to your point, priscilla, it you know, if there were what, a 400,000, i think you said at the height of the obama administration, they want to do a lot more than that. that would probably not be acceptable to the trump administration. but what are the limits? we'll see. >> well, here's the catch. there are about 1.4 million people who have final orders of removal. when i talk to ice officials, a lot of those, either their country won't take them back, which is a reality, or there are some of those that are still working through some process in the immigration system. so it is incredibly difficult and complex to carry this out. so the timing, of course, remains to be seen. but certainly this is not going to be an easy lift. >> all right. priscilla alvarez jeff zeleny, thank you so much. we'll be back with more news after a quick break.

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>> this is cnn, the world's news network a major diplomatic push happening in the middle east. >> a source telling cnn that cia director bill burns is expected to join talks in qatar to reach a gaza cease fire and hostage release deal, a hamas source described the talks as positive and optimistic, despite the group publicly cautioning that hurdles remain. >> as an israeli source tells cnn a deal could potentially be weeks away. with us now is cnn global affairs analyst and former defense secretary under president trump, mark esper. he also serves on the board or as a strategic advisor for a handful of aerospace and defense related companies. secretary, we have heard optimism before. so many times, and then we just watch these talks fall apart. is it a sign that things may be moving forward that bill burns is joining the negotiations? because we've also seen that before. >> yeah, i don't think that's the sign. >> i've been pessimistic for, what, 14 months now.

>> but i think things have changed in the past two months that give me a little bit of hope or should give people a little bit of hope. first of all, we know that yahya sinwar, the hardline leader of hamas who launched this brutal assault against israel in october of last year, is dead. he was killed by the israelis. so that's number one. he's gone. he's been replaced by people who are more willing to talk. second, hamas was always hoping that hezbollah and others would join into the fight. and of course, we know this summer, the early fall, israel decimated hezbollah, and now they're in a peace, i'm sorry, truce agreement, if you will. that means that hezbollah is not coming to their aid anytime soon, nor is iran, for that matter, for similar reasons. and then thirdly, more overlooked is the fact that if you look at the people of palestinians in gaza in september, they supported hamas to the tune of 60 some percent, 64% of palestinians supported them. now that number is down in the 30s. so you see that they, hamas, are losing the support of the palestinians in

gaza. so i think all these factors combined are now pushing the hamas leadership to take a softer stance in negotiations, and i think are creating some room for maybe a deal. >> secretary talks in august ultimately collapsed over israel's demand to keep troops in the philadelphia corridor. this strip of land on the gaza-egypt border. sources now telling cnn that israeli forces are likely to stay in gaza temporarily, and phase one of a potential deal, namely in that philadelphia corridor. what do you make of this adjustment, this change? >> yeah, that's a big concession. and that was one of the the major issues that sinwar had stood on when he was alive. so that and the fact that

>> coalition of israelis don't want to go back in the gaza, will be the palestinian authority to over in ramallah know that's probably not the case will be some type of eu force arab force is going to govern and police gaza. >> this is the unknown. so at this point in time, if they strike a deal, it means, i guess at this point in time, israel is going to be be the occupying force exercising control over gaza for the foreseeable future. >> and at this point in time, we know the biden and trump teams are coordinating. but of course, we're just a month out about from inauguration day. do you see that switch over complicating negotiations at all, switching over from biden to trump? >> my instinct tells me. not necessarily. first of all, it's good that they're negotiating. i think, with

regard to the personalities of the presidents, it's clear that netanyahu really has not been heeding joe biden's counsel or direction or requests. he netanyahu has an arguably better relationship with trump. trump seems to be more aligned with netanyahu, so maybe that will give him the more of the ability to to to press him in certain ways. again, in either case, what's unclear now is what what position does president trump and his team will they take with regard to the future of gaza and the relationship, the peace process going forward? you know, will they go back to a two state solution? members of his campaign have said that's not the case. but think about the bigger picture out there. you know, donald trump, to his credit, launched the abraham accords in 2020 that was successful in terms of bringing countries like the uae. and now it's sitting out there and saudi arabia says, hey, look, we'll join the the abraham accords. we'll normalize relations with israel, something that the israelis have wanted for decades. but there has to be a number of things agreed to a security

arrangement between the united states and saudi arabia. but importantly, back to topic. there has to be an end state, a peace process to deal with the palestinian people in gaza and the west bank. and that's going to be that right now is the unknown which way the trump team will take that. >> secretary mark esper, appreciate the perspective. thanks for joining us. >> thank you both. >> still to come, a secret vote to release what could be a bombshell report, what we're learning about the house ethics committee's investigation into matt gaetz, and when that could become public. >> we've got the got this. >> hey, susan. toothbrush. big interview, huh? nice new suit, new haircut, ancient bristle stick. make the sonicare switch. all right, now go knock em dead, boss. can i get the wi-fi? >> am i hanging at the salvation army? a meal isn't just a meal. it's fuel for. imagination determination, and

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