tv The Amanpour Hour CNN December 21, 2024 8:00am-9:00am PST
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>> luther never too much new year's day at eight on cnn. >> hello, and welcome to the amanpour hour. here's where we're headed this week i'm a woman who wants to realize women's rights in iran. so i think this is exactly where i should be. this on a worldwide exclusive with iran's jailed nobel peace laureate narges
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mohammadi dares to speak out while on a short medical furlough for women's equal rights. >> then the founders of this country wanted us to be a check on on power. and there's no one more powerful than the president of the united states. >> donald trump uses his presidential bully pulpit against the media, again signaling intent with a string of new lawsuits. i asked former washington post executive editor marty baron about america's constitutional right to free speech and who. her name is farm a verdict in the horr mrape trial that's rocking france. we have the latest on the gisele pelicot case and exclusive access to police files. and from my archive, a hero amid the horrors of war. how a taxi driver brought hope. while sarajevo was under siege and finally, no sane man would want the papacy. the oscar tipped vatican whodunit, a papal election thriller. i discuss
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conclave with director edward berger. welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. the swift collapse of bashar assad's regime in syria has had reverberations in iran. it was once a key pillar of influence, and iran's strategy in that region. and it's shaken tehran, the country's supreme leader, ali khamenei, declared any public debate on iran's weakened position, quote, a criminal act. but today we want to bring you a very brave voice that refuses to be silenced when it comes to the issues of democracy and especially equal rights for women in iran. she is narges mohammadi who last year was awarded the nobel peace prize and who has spent much of the past 20 years in evin prison. she's accused of spreading propaganda and acting against the country's national security. mohammadi has
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recently been released on a short medical furlough to recover from surgery, and even from the ambulance. she shouted the movement's slogan women, life, freedom and she has made the courageous decision to speak out on this program, knowing that she's going back to jail. narges mohammadi. welcome to the program. thank you very much. how are you feeling? you were released from prison for about three weeks in order to recover from an operation. how are you feeling? >> michael dunne when i was leaving prison, since i was leaving behind my inmates and i'd been given a release, i was i was feeling very sad. i had a heavy heart and i thought i was leaving behind a part of me, even though. for it was just for a few days. but the moment they let me in the
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ambulance and i saw the streets, i felt liberated and i felt i could see a woman who was crossing the road without a headscarf, and they recognized me and they greeted me and and i started chanting. woman, life, freedom. hakkemose azadi. and i felt that this is not a movement that is going to lose its strength, and it's still going strong because our women are very strong. and i was filled with joy to see our women like that. and i greeted freedom because i realized i was not surrounded by guards and i could leave prison. but it was. i had a kind of dual feeling about leaving prison.
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>> i understand what you're saying, but i'm also i mean, i'm just so amazed that you would be leaving prison for only a period of time. you're jailed for defying the state, and yet you still come out and you shout the slogan woman, life, freedom. you're on an international television interview right now. they'll be shown all over the world and in the united states, and you're still standing up for what you believe in. are you not afraid of the consequences? >> i have been tried for nine times, but i and they continue to convict me of various crimes. but i think the path that i have chosen will never stop. not even the prison walls and all these convictions can ever stop me. and i feel that alongside the iranian people i am, i have to go towards democracy and equality, and i hope that we will see victory.
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and it may not be an easy path, but i am determined in my belief because of the conditions that exist in my country, iran, and you specifically, have you been physically abused? >> your lawyer said that you've been beaten up or badly beaten. many shou chew yes, on several occasions i was beaten up in about 2019 from 130 to 530 in the afternoon when i was in the prison yard, i was beaten up very badly. >> my whole body was covered in bruises and injuries. i asked, i urged them to send a doctors in and there were 24 bruises in on my body. uh, i'm. and as i
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was beaten up by the guards. but unfortunately my complaints fell on deaf ears and i was convicted again. i was sent back to evin prison. >> matt gaetz you have not seen your twins, your children, since they were nine years old. that was back in 2015. i know you facetimed them because we have the the footage. when you came out just now and talked to them, you were able to speak to them for the first time in three years just recently. and your son, you know, called this conversation intense. what was it like for you being able to talk to your children again after three years? >> bodyu zamani. says all the three year period for you may not be too long, but for me, the changes i've seen in ali and kiana in these three years, i was amazed. i was actually a
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bit shocked. i felt that they had really grown up, and i felt that. and i'd lost a long period of being with them because when i left iran, they were eight and a half years old, and i remember i hugged them. ali and kiana, and we sang more gaza, which is a revolutionary song together. and that was ten years ago. but when three years ago, when i was on temporary release for a year, i felt i had there was a gap that had appeared in our relationship, and i felt that they probably felt the same, but i could really i could see the change in them. >> yeah. and i've spoken to them, you know, obviously, you know, that they accepted your nobel peace prize. they read a message from you from jail, and i spoke to them. this is what kiana, your daughter, told me
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in january. we're going to play a little bit of what she said. i hope you can hear it. obviously, with the little day to day things, i would have really liked my mother to be here to show me how to put on makeup, teenager, things like that. >> so it is hard to live without her because nothing replaces the presence of your mother. but i'm still very proud of her, and i'm very happy that she chose to fight for women's rights in iran and that she has dedicated her life to this. it is an honor to be her daughter because i admire her a lot. >> nargis. she also said, i hope to see my mother at least once again in my life. how do you reckon with those words from your daughter a member herschel wilson dar sally seymour. >> on many occasions when i was in prison, i felt the challenge of motherhood a versus being a
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human rights activist. i had. i endured many hard times thinking about ali and kiana, and now that i listened to what kiana said, they again, i picture them. there was a time when neither myself nor their father were present in their lives, and when they were leaving iran on their own, and when they lived in france and they were going to school, and when they reached puberty and the experiences they had when they needed me as a mother and but they didn't have that. i don't know whether they will forgive me or not. of course, when i spoke to them, they said, oh, we are proud of you and we support you. but the truth of the matter is, i feel that these children have bottled up so much and they have endured so much hardship and maybe words cannot express or make up for this. uh loss
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and and i am really i, i am in two minds. i don't know when they say we forgive you whether they will ever forgive me or will they ever, forever have all this hardship in them. and but i hope that one day i will meet them in person. i will be able to explain to them that in iran we lived in a such predicament, that we had no other choice and we had to choose this path in order to achieve freedom and democracy. >> and we'll have more of this moving conversation after a break and later on in the show, protecting the press from trump 2.0 and right wing governments in europe, with former washington post executive editor marty baron.
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>> you make good choices, always planning ahead. like to not just chase a career, but one day. follow your heart with ambition like that, you need someone who elevates advice to a craft. at ubs, we match your vision with insight and expertise to shape a unique outcome for you advice is our craft i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon, and this is cnn. >> welcome back to the program and to the second part of my exclusive interview with iran's jailed nobel peace laureate. narges mohammadi, while recovering from surgery during a three week furlough from tehran's evin prison. she spoke to me from home about her plans to keep fighting. and i start this segment by talking to her about what she asked her
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kids to read at the nobel peace prize ceremony just last year. you wrote in part, i write this message from behind the high, cold walls of a prison. the iranian people with perseverance, will overcome repression and authoritarianism . do you think you will be released from prison? >> and amy coney barrett. i don't think about that very much. whether i am inside evin or outside evan. my goal is very clear. and until we achieve democracy, we are not going to stop. we want freedom and we want equality. and i know we will achieve that. and so whichever side of the wall i am, i will continue my struggle. >> narges, what do you think the authorities will do to you after this interview? >> mangione mousavi. mr. but i
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i am not at all worried about the consequences of this interview because in the past year, especially after being awarded the nobel peace prize, they actually increased the hardship against me in prison. they even took my mobile phone away because they didn't want my statements to leave the prison. but i managed to sell them and send them out, and i knew that i would be punished for sending these statements out. some of my meetings, even three times my lawyer wanted to meet me and they denied him this meeting, which is actually illegal because it's my legal right. when my father passed away, they did not even allow me to telephone my brother, who lives in iran, to phone and
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convey my condolences to him. in the past two years, i have been tried for four times and i have been given prison terms. i have passed through all these stages, all these phases and whatever. um, punishment they impose on me, it makes no difference because i have my beliefs. i am standing firm and i am chanting against the death penalty. i'm against the gender apartheid, against the policies of the islamic republic of iran. i am a pacifist. i am a woman who is who wants to realize women's rights in iran. so i think this is exactly where i should be. >> and narges, one final question. you are writing a memoir, is that right? what do you what do you want to send to the world in your book? >> a feminist, a dabo swinney.
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look, this is not the memoirs of an individual. i have tried to illustrate the changes and developments that have been taking place in iranian society, and what the iranian society has witnessed, especially with regards to women. my memoir is an attempt by me to show what has been happening in iran in the past decades. the women have been the ones who have been subjected to the most repression in the country. they have resisted nevertheless. but this resistance was not only to the government, but it's also been a resistance to the age old traditions that exist in countries including iran, countries in the middle east in general and there these women have paid a substantial price for that. it has been a
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resistance, accompanied by hope for a bright future. the women have been trying to keep the flames of this hope alive, at least in their hearts, even if they've been unable to express it. this is an attempt to show how the sparks of activism for human rights has managed to overcome the suppression and spread their hope in society. that is what i've been trying to. illustrate. >> narges mohammadi, thank you so much. thank you very much for this interview. and that's humbling. bravery and enduring commitment to a peaceful transition to democracy while the regime continues its crackdown. the husband of leading human rights lawyer nasrin sotoudeh was arrested last week. meanwhile, iran's draconian new hijab and chastity law was due to come into effect on friday, but it has now been paused. it would
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have introduced even harsher punishments for women and girls for exposing their hair, their forearms or lower legs, president masoud pezeshkian called the legislation ambiguous and in need of reform. coming up, press freedom at risk in the united states and around the democratic world. former washington post executive editor marty baron tells us what's in the trump toolbox and how to protect our constitutional right to free speech. >> you only come across an artist like luther vandross. once in a lifetime. >> he was a boss from the beginning, luther said. >> i have a sound in my head. i got to get it out. you are my shining star. >> it was the most exciting time in the world. >> his life had extremely joyful moments and some really difficult moments. if we were to be able to talk to luther as fans, we would be able to say
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>> what a great idea for a holiday gift. >> give hands free skechers slip ins, footwear you just step into and they're on. >> there's no bending down and no touching your shoes. hands free skechers slip ins. >> welcome back to the program. freedom of the press is under attack worldwide. even in the united states, where the press is already under legal assault from president elect donald trump, he's suing the des moines register newspaper over its coverage of polling, which showed kamala harris ahead in iowa days before the election. he obviously went on to win it handily, and abc news has agreed to pay trump a $15 million settlement over a defamation case he brought against them. and trump is planning to go after many more. >> and i feel i have to do this. i shouldn't really be the one to do it. it should have been justice department or somebody else. but i have to do it. it costs a lot of money to do it, but we have to
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straighten out the press. our press is very corrupt, corrupt. >> this is happening in america, which has constitutional protections for press freedom. other democracies around the world do not. and some of them are coming after the press as well. it's a trend that affects us all and deeply concerns. my next guest, former executive editor of the washington post, marty baron, welcome to the program, marty. >> thank you for having me. >> so lay out how you think the next administration can come after us. i mean, it is us in the big sense. what tools can they use? >> yeah, well i think sure. well, they have a lot of tools in their toolbox, and i think they will use every single one of them. that's already evident from the measures that they are promising to take. i think they are salivating for the opportunity to prosecute journalists for leaks of supposed national security information. i think that they've already threatened to revoke the licenses for
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stations affiliated with the with some of the major networks they are already, as you mentioned, uh, likely to sue, uh, a lot of a lot of media outlets for supposed defamation and other supposed offenses. i suspect a lot of the wealthy allies of donald trump will underwrite those those lawsuits. i suspect that they will deny information to major media outlets routinely. i suspect that they will threaten advertisers for major media outlets as well. so they will do everything to undermine public confidence in the press, to further undermine public confidence in the press, and to undermine its economic sustainability, and probably to intimidate the press by this relentless pursuit. >> do you think that lands with people and despite all the tools and mechanisms you've just enumerated, do you think it will be successful? >> well, certainly there's a large segment of the american
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public who do not have confidence in the mainstream press, and i understand that there's been a decline in confidence in all institutions in our country, from the presidency to the congress to banks to major businesses, the medical community, religious institutions, pretty much everybody. and the press is certainly in there and has suffered a lot. um, i think the intent here is, as you say, to intimidate the press. i think that but more than that, i think he has suggested that he would like to use the power of government against the press and to judge by the nominations that he has said he will make, he will use the power of government against the press. the cost for defending that lawsuit is enormous as well. and a lot of media institutions simply can't afford that. >> that's absolutely true. and i wonder whether you think that it's also going to lead to a sort of a mass self-censorship, because presumably it's going to have a massively chilling effect. on the other hand, there's this, which is what
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david axelrod, former obama, you know, you know, major ally and adviser put on x, he said. now, trump says he's suing the des moines register because their poll understated his support. 60 minutes because of their editing of kamala harris interview, the pulitzer committee for honoring the new york times coverage of russian election interference. then he said, welcome to hungary, folks. i just want to play what steve bannon has said, again, using the sort of hungary analogy. this is what he said. he's back to his old sparring with the mainstream media. >> they never in a million years thought we'd be back in power. and they need to learn what populist nationalist power is on the receiving end. i mean investigations, trials and then incarceration. and i'm just talking about the media. >> look, we've discussed what
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their aim is, but this stuff has happened in other european countries. and i'm going to quote in europe, one of the key priorities of neo authoritarian governments is to restrict press freedom, particularly targeting public and alternative media. this trend began in eastern european countries and has gradually spread westward on the international stage. trump is a central figure in this movement, serving as both a model and an inspiration. so that's a fact. we we see it. we're seeing it. what can we do? what can the public media and mainstream media do about this? >> i think we need to do our jobs. i need to we need to deliver for the public. we need to give the public the information it needs and deserves to know. we need to do that unflinchingly. we need to do it every single day. we need to do it without fear and certainly without favor. so that's that's what we can do. we need to show our value. i mean, look, the founders of
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this country, james madison, who was the author of the principal author of the first amendment, talked about the need for freely examining public characters and measures so examining means looking behind the curtain and beneath the surface. and that's what we're supposed to do. we're not stenographers. we're not supposed to be stenographers. the founders of this country wanted us to be a check on on power, particularly political power. and there's no one more powerful than the president of the united states. he's the most powerful person in the world. and we have to fulfill our mission and report on him without without fear, certainly honorably, honestly and accurately. and all of that, but certainly without fear as well. >> it's really fascinating. marty baron, thank you so much for your really valuable perspective. thank you. thank you. coming up. guilty guilty guilty. 51 verdicts against gisele pelicot abusers in the mass rape trial that has stunned france and caught the whole world's attention. we
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have a special report on how dozens of men in one town became complicit in this horrifying crime. >> and it has been one wild year. >> i know that whole new live stream was crazy. what you have been following actual news right? oh boy. >> new year's eve live with anderson and andy. live coverage starts at eight on cnn and streaming live on max. >> do your dry eyes still feel gritty? rough? or tired with my bow, eyes can feel my. bow, yeah, my bow is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer for the number one cause of dry eye. too much tear evaporation for relief. that's my bow. >> yeah. >> remove contact lenses before using my bow. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. what does treating dry eye differently feel like? my. bow.
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world was watching. it ended with a resounding verdict. a french jury finding her ex-husband, dominique pelicot and all 50 male co-defendants guilty of abusing her over the course of a decade, gisele pelicot was systematically raped, having been first drugged into unconsciousness. the case has become a watershed moment in france and beyond, and gisele has become a hero in much of the world. and here's what she said after the verdict. >> put on by making the trial public on september 2nd. >> i wanted society to be able to understand the issues it would raise. i've never regretted that decision. >> regretté cette décision. >> i have faith now in our capacity to carve out collectively a future where everyone, women and men, can live in harmony in respect and mutual understanding. >> now, with exclusive access to police records, producer saskia van doren has the history of how this horrifying
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crime took place in the shadows. online. >> i've come here to retrace the steps of all those men who visited dominique pelicot house in the middle of the night his case really has captured the world's attention, with so many people asking why. we're going to focus instead on how pellico led the men right here. how did he communicate with the men? what were the tactics he used? what was his playbook? >> 50 men accused in the mass rape of gisele pelicot. she was drugged. >> drugged, unconscious by her husband. >> dominique pelicot gisele pelicot admitted to recruiting, enlisting other men. prosecutors say to rape his wife. sparked outrage across france.
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>> global concern about violence against women. >> cnn has gained exclusive access to police reports with thousands of messages that dominic exchanged with the 48 men who were convicted of aggravated rape alongside him. >> he didn't have to search far for his accomplices. they all live within a 30 mile radius of his house in maison. >> this area was so quiet and nice area. and now we don't know if somebody who is a the next job is one of these men. it changes everything from a firefighter to a journalist to a nurse from 27 years old to 74 years old. >> all the men were connected by one website. coco shut down this summer. coco's chat rooms were easy to access. >> it was not buried in the dark web, as one man convicted of raping gisele pelicot said. >> geoff duncan contact coco
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because she was romanian, but because the so-called dating site was entirely unmoderated and anonymous. >> pellico used the chat rooms to find like minded men. under the pseudonym available all night. pellico posted in a chat room without her knowledge it was there that misogyny and sexual abuse were completely normalized. pellico would then move the discussion to skype. he traded videos of his wife being raped for intimate images of the men's own partners. according to the police report. over time he built a network of men he told the men what drugs to buy and how to use them this all went undetected for ten
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years. dominique pelicot never thought his text messages or his alleged crimes would see the light of day, and they probably wouldn't have if it weren't for the events that took place right here on september 12th, when a security guard caught him red handed filming up the skirts of several women police. police he received the maximum sentence of 20 years. in the wake of coco shutdown, more websites have gained in popularity in france. there are some websites that could be the new coco. how does that make you feel? >> reproduire dans une autre commun. we expect that some rules will change but of course, i'm not sure that it will be enough. so i don't feel at ease here in the streets saskya vandoorne cnn maison france. >> and as we heard earlier, giselle herself wants to make sure this never happens to any
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other community in france. coming up from my archive, the taxi driver who put aside ethnic divisions and became a hero to the needy under siege in sarajevo i want to be the greatest player that i could possibly become. >> hurry, hurry, hurry! >> transform your website into an immersive 3-d experience with infinite reality. you can tap the power of the spatial and social web, unlock valuable data, and take your brand to the next level. it's time for better shopping. bolder entertainment and bigger sports. it's time to up your web game. infinite reality.
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my archive for a moment of goodwill to all, and i've often found the shiniest examples in the worst of times. for instance, during the long, cruel siege of sarajevo during the 1990s by bosnian serb forces. but sarajevo was a famously mixed city, and when the muslims came under attack and ethnic cleansing, bosnian serb taxi driver milla jovovich became a hero to people for his courage and for his compassion. at this horrible time. so here's my report from the cold, harsh winter of 1993. this is the story of a man who's become a war hero without ever firing a shot. every day, 41 year old neal michael vick leaves his house and walks through the rubble strewn streets of sarajevo to begin a frenzy of activity. he's a taxi driver who uses his beaten up car to ferry help
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all around this city. he delivers bread to some of the poorest people who get no handouts from the u.n. he still working even after dark, bringing his delivery service to the hospital. he rushes through the doors of the emergency room to take newspapers to the wounded and to the doctors and nurses who toiled tirelessly day and night. everywhere he goes, he spreads a little joy and happiness in a city where both are in short supply. yes, i've done a lot of things for this city, and i'm proud of all that i've done, he says. from the first day of the war back in april, i've worked as hard as i could from the very beginning. i took the side of the poor and the honest people. mila is a serb, but he refuses to escape the serb siege of sarajevo is nekog rivolta i bunta? i am disgusted by what's going on, he says. i hate politics and nationalism.
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people used to live together for 50 years, and i can't believe their hatred. now mila won't give in to those hatreds. indeed, he's taken a family of eight muslim refugees into his own two small rooms. >> vlado, bosnia-herzegovina, by the light of a bulb hooked up to a car battery. >> they listened to the latest war dispatches on the radio. and when mila the serb, comes home each night, his muslim houseguests serve dinner on the floor. they all eat together, sharing whatever food they've managed to scrape up, often even sharing a bowl after the meal, the dining room turns back into a bedroom, and all nine of them climb in together. mila sleeps with the youngest eight year old artist. they laugh and chat a new family that has been thrown into each other's arms by circumstance, a new family that defies the notion that muslims and serbs can no longer live together in bosnia. the forces of nationalism tried to drag people apart by war back then
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and today, a dominant political force, populist nationalism is driving people apart from the americas to asia to europe. history does inform the future, and it's important to pay attention and remember, when we come back, the new film that's getting simply divine reviews. >> this is a conclave. >> although it's not a war, it is a war. and you have to commit to a psi conclave. >> director edward berger takes me into his papal drama and the unholy battles for power at the top of the catholic church from creating memories. >> to finding the perfect gift let us make this holiday season a little easier
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z's bakery is looking to add a pizza oven, arissa's hair salon wants to expand their space, and steve's t-shirt shop wants to bring on more help. with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee, they can think more about possibilities for their business and not the cost of their internet. it's five years of gig-speeds and advanced security. all from the company with 99.9% network reliability. get the 5-year price lock guarantee, now back for a limited time. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities™. before it starts. that's my secret to better odor control everywhere. >> new year's eve live with anderson and andy. live coverage starts at eight on cnn. >> and finally, it's been a busy week for the catholic church. not only is it the run up to christmas when it, along with many christian denominations, celebrate the
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birth of jesus, but this week also marked the birthday of pope francis, who turned 88, and who, by the way, wrote an end of year column on the power of comedy and the solemn duty to have a good laugh. which brings me to anything but fun in the catholic church, the knives out struggled to elect a new pope, and the new film conclave that depicts this battle of the cardinals en route to that white smoke moment, i spoke to the film director edward berger, who also made the acclaimed world war one drama all quiet on the western front. here's what he told me. what i found really interesting is the power struggle between reformist cardinals and the very traditionalist cardinals, and that is portrayed, i think, pretty well in this clip, which is cardinal lawrence. he is played by ralph fiennes, talking to cardinal bellini, who is played by stanley tucci. let's listen. >> father bellini.
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>> aldo am i the last one? >> not quite. >> how are you? >> oh, well, you know, fairly dreadful. >> have you seen the papers? >> apparently, it's already decided. it's to be me. >> and i happen to agree with them what if i don't want it? >> no sane man would want the papacy. >> some of our colleagues seem to want it. what if i know in my heart that i am not worthy? you are more worthy than any of us. well, then tell your supporters not to vote for you. pass the chalice and let it go to him. i could never live with myself. >> okay, so that's interesting. and it's also very today. i mean, pope francis has been the reformer, or at least tried to be. and he's had so much pushback from cardinals who are much, much more traditional. was that something you wanted to focus on? >> definitely. >> i mean, we wanted to represent the current politics of the vatican, but also current world politics, world politics. >> and they're more or less the same, you know? i mean,
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explain that. well, you know, there's traditionalists or populist movements and there is sort of liberals all over the world, you know, and that and these parties, we've sort of lost the ability to listen to each other, you know, and basically everyone's a fundamentalist in their opinion, and they're not really communicating anymore. everyone wants this has to be this way. and the other party says it has to be this way. and they're clashing constantly. >> and the film conclave is doing very well in awards season so far, with six golden globe nominations. that's all we have time for this week. but don't forget you can find all our shows online as podcasts at cnn.com, slash audio and on all other major platforms. i'm christiane amanpour in london. thank you for watching and i'll see you again next week
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