tonight on "360," the difference four years can make, and what the next four years might be. also tonight, having spent a quarter billion dollars on the presidential race, the world's richest man now turns his attention and inflammatory allegations toward politics overseas. tara swisher, who knows elon musk well, joins us. >> and jimmy carter, the most highly praised ex- president already. lesley stahl joins me tonight. thank you for joining us. it is quiet tonight on capitol hill, the snow is only partly responsible, along with beefed up security for the tranquility. the rest is because today, unlike four years ago, but in

keeping with every other such occasion, politicians did their job. they certified a presidential election, and the one that came up short in it did not try to short circuit the process. in fact, she oversaw it. >> this announcement of the state of the vote by the president of the senate shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the person's elected president and vice president of each for a term beginning on the 20th day of january, 2025. >> vice president harris' announcement ratifying her opponent's victory today came after lawmakers took just 30 minutes to certify all 538 electoral votes. four years ago, it took under 15 hours, and one attempted insurrection. mike collins of georgia described it like so on social media, and i quote, on this day in history, in 2021, thousands of peaceful grabbedmothers gathered in washington, d.c. to take a self- guided albeit

unauthorized tour of the u.s. capitol building. during this time, he goes on, some individuals entered the capitol, took photos, and explored the building before leaving. now, his characterization four years later might come as news to more than 100 police officers and other law enforcement officers injured that day, and to the families of the officers that died in the following days, by stroke and suicide. might come as news to mike pence, who had to be evacuated from the senate chamber, along with members of his family, a few short seconds ahead of rioters, and prevented by what collins calls thousands of peaceful grandmothers until returning until 3:00 the next morning, when he finally managed to say these words. >> votes for president of the united states are as follows. joseph r. biden jr. of the state of delaware has received 306 votes. donald j. trump from the state of florida has received 232 votes. >> today on social media, pence said he welcomed the return of order and civility to

the proceedings and said it was, quote, particularly admirable that vice president harris would preside over the certification of a presidential election that she lost. as for the rioters, president- elect trump has promised pardons, though he's not specified if that means all or just some of them. today, one of them, the former leader of the so- called proud boys, who is serving 22 years, formally requested one. his lawyer called him, and i quote, a young man with an aspiring future ahead of him. the president- elect posted this photo on social meade ya today. that is the eclipse, four years ago, and the crowd he summoned to washington with the words, "will be wild. " of course, perhaps the biggest difference between then and now, this time, he won, just two weeks from tomorrow, he'll become president again. here to talk about it, david axelrod, bakari sellers, and david urban. so, david axelrod, how do we square what we saw at the capitol today and how the

president-elect and his allies are describing what happened four years ago? >> well, it's sheer fantasy. we need to say that donald trump in 2020 told a malignant, flagrant lie, and sold it to his supporters who came to washington on the basis of that lie and stormed the capitol on the erroneous impression that the election was fraudulent, and that has been disproven and disproven over and over and over again. and that was a -- that was an unforgivable sin against our democracy. now, he's gotten elected president again and we only have one president at a time. he will be sworn in on january 20th, and he will be president. it doesn't erase the memory of that. what you saw today, anderson, is how a functioning democracy works. and there's no rule in the constitution that gives you the -- the right to overrule that process and overrun the

capitol, if you don't like the results. so, history is clear, and no rewriting on x is going to change that. >> alyssa, president- elect trump was complaining to ugh hewitt today about how president biden and his team are handling the transition. >> they'll do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible. you know, they talk about a transition. they're always saying, oh, no, we want to have a smooth transition from party to party, you know, of government. well, they're making it really difficult. they're throwing everything they can in the way. >> does it make sense to you? obviously, i mean, he's still, you know, talking about legal cases, calling president biden dumb as a rock. does it work for him to do this? >> it works maybe with his base. it's absolutely not what the 75 million voters want him to be focusing on. and just as a factual matter, donald trump made it

extremely difficult for the biden transition, to where the chief of staff couldn't get basic access until the days before he was going to be coming into office, because donald trump was selling this myth and trying to execute this myth that he was going to stay in office. but listen, donald trump won because people care about the cost of living and the border. the more he's talking about prosecuting people, whatever his rantings are, it's a distraction. he would be wise to listen to the vast majority of the country, not to the small 30% of the republican party base that is going to be with him no matter what he does. >> how do democrats not become background noise? >> well, i think democrats have to learn their lesson first, which is that january 6th is an important day, as david stressed, it's a day that's etched in our country's history. the problem and what democrats have to realize is that it doesn't move voters anymore. voters have somewhat of a short memory. what moves voters what alyssa talked about. you have to be talking about lowering grocery prices. vuf to talk about the cost

of living. you have to talk about the things that every average american is talking about at their kitchen table and we lost focus of that. january 6th is a day that if i were to sit here and tell alyssa or anyone else that i want to go out and injure 140 police officers, i want to make sure that the president of the united states is down at the mall threatening democracy, and then, if kamala harris doesn't certify the elections, i want her hung. that would actually chill the backbone of people that heard me say that. that is what we went through. that is a day in our history. but going forward, democrats have to be about the party of tomorrow. donald trump is a very little man, as we just saw in that -- in his talking about how difficult it is. he's going to air those grievances, and that's fine. but democrats have to find some backbone and be a party about tomorrow, not necessarily about january 6th. >> david urban, the president- elect will obviously control the white house, both houses of congress. do you think he'll go -- i mean, who does he go after if things don't go his way? >> well, i hope nobody,

anderson. i hope things go his way. i love hearing what bakari is saying and others. i think it's incumbent upon democrats to offer an alternative vision, perhaps cooperate on areas they can agree with with this president, right? americans want to see america succeed. i think the you being ing bulk of democrats want to see america succeed. they want to move forward. and i think to the extent that there's common ground that can be reached, i think speaker johnson is going to work with hakeem jeffries to the extent possible. they're going to need democratic votes in the house on certain measures to get bills passed. you're talking about if there's going to be one or two big reconciliation bills, democrats are going to need to be part of that in the house and the senate. so, i think it behooves democrats to cooperate where they can, to present alternative ideas, if they have them. if they want to move forward and get back in the fray here, that's what they're going to need to do. >> david axelrod, how do you

see, you know, the first 100 days going in terms of what democrats do , what -- how trump interacts with them? >> listen, i want to echo what dave urban said. i do believe that, you know, you are elected not to advance the interest of your party, but advance the interest of your country. was, you know, appalled in 2009 when barack obama took office, on that very day, rush limbaugh told the nation that he was rooting for obama to fail. donald trump has said he's going to lower people's prices and very quickly, you know, he said he's going to take care of the border, he's going to reduce crime, he's going to end war, he's going to do a lot of things. if he does all those things, god bless him, good for him. but -- and good for the country. and if there are places where democrats and republicans can cooperate, that is -- that is positive. the fact is, he has

not evidenced in the past a particular desire to want to work with democrats. if you read his social media feeds, that's pretty clear. even to this day. it behoove him, just as it behooves democrats to say, i've got bigger things to do than air my grievances and go after my enemies. i want to work with people where i can. and let's see if he does that. >> listen, just in terms of his, the people he wants to have in his cabinet, the people he wants head of department of justice, the fbi, well, not department of justice, fbi, department of defense, do you think he'll get them all? >> i don't think he'll get them all. i think he'll get the majority, and i think he should. incoming presidents do have the right to fill their cabinet. the republican senate takes their role seriously, and right now, background checks are going on, investigations, there will be hearings. and with a few of these picks, there's real questions about qualifications. pete hegseth, he's worked on veterans issues, but

there's character issues, and then the credentials and the ability to run the biggest organization in the u.s. military. that's one that i would keep my eyes on. i worked with kash patel, i liked him when i was in the administration, i'm not sure he's a fan of mine now, but he's sad some really wacky stuff, but he's reasonably qualified for the job. he worked in congress, he worked at the department of justice. if he shows up and says, we're not going to spend our time prosecuting lids z cheney, we're going to go after human traffickers, there's a way to convince people to be with him. >> david urban, go ahead. >> tell me, urban. >> i just don't know that kash patel wants alyssa's endorsement. i'm not sure that helps him. >> i want to play something that president- elect said to hugh hewitt today. >> in my first term, people were fighting me all the way, they were just fighting me. in this term, it's so

different. i think -- i don't want to say people have given up, because that's not nice, but they recognize that we really do have that mandate. >> you think that's true? >> no, it's delusional. and the fact that people around him continuously say there was a mandate, first, let's address that. this is the closest popular vote we've had since bush v gore, right? and it was one of the closest ones we've had in american history. in terms of the electoral college, there were 200,000 votes different along pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan. 200,000 votes of a difference. so, that's pretty close. if you look at the house, that is insanely close. i how many votes, three, four? depends on how many people get put into one of the cabinet positions, three, four- vote difference. so, it's not a mandate by any stretch. and i do believe -- democrats are tired right now. we are weary right now. we just went through this battle and sometimes when you go through this battle in running a race, when you don't win, particularly to someone like donald trump, it just takes

the life out of you. but to say that democrats won't be there to fight, of course, to david's point, were there ways to work with donald trump in the administration, they'll work with him. but there's still going to be a fight, because there is a question about who represents the values of this country and where we want to go and the country we want our children to be raised in. >> double davids, thank you -- >> go ahead, david. >> i was going to say, i know you want to put an asterisk there, that's fine. what i think is going to be different in this administration, at least the kickoff, is that on the day of inauguration, there won't be an article running in "the washington post" calling for donald trump's impeachment. the first two years won't be marred by a fake russia investigation where the entire administration is subjected to subpoenas and what was largely a witch hunt now that we look back. it kept him from accomplishing a lot of things. he's getting to start with a clean slate, and there are a lot of things that the american people want to see done. the border secured, prices come down.

crisese around the world solved. as americans, we should hope for a success early, quickly, and thoroughly. >> i'm praying for his success, david. i'm praying for it. >> thank you, love you, man. coming up next, elon musk weighing in against britain's government. journalist kara swisher joins us about that. and canada's prime minister stepping down. why the luster faded, and what happens next, ahead on "360. kwtsz

dave's been very excited about saving big with the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. five years? -five years. and he's not alone. -high five. it's five years of reliable gig speed internet. five years of advanced securit. five years of a great rate that won't change. it's back. but only for a limited time. high five. five years? -nope. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business.

elon musk today asked his 211 million online followers if the united states should overthrow the government of one of his country's oldest, closest allies. here's the proposition he posted on his social network. america should liberate the people of britain from their tyrannical government.

in a 2014 report, it was found that about 1,400 kids had been abused in a northern english town, beginning in 1997, lasting a decade. today, keir starmer, the british prime minister, responded by suggesting that musk was quote spreading lies and misinformation. britain's leader of the lib call democratic party said that the american ambassador should be summoned to explained why an incoming u.s. official is suggesting the uk government should be overthrown. joining me now is kara swisher, who hosts the podcast "on and pivot." and author of the book "burn book: a tech love story. " what is elon musk doing here? >> he's being patrick henry of britain. i'm not sure what's happening. he's emboldened by his success here in the united states. and his fortune has doubled, which is incredible. >> the investment he made -- >> $250 million. >> $250 million is a lot of ÷÷money -- >> it's not. >> that's the greatest investment he's made. >> it's a ten bagger, they

call it. he made $250 billion from that. his wealth has doubled. >> and that's from his stocks going, like -- >> tesla and some others, even though the results at tesla ÷÷weren't so good recently. >> i guess investors believe he's so now linked to the trump -- >> that's correct. >> he's going to be getting government contracts. >> the idea is, this is not a reflection of tesla's business, it's a reflection of elon musk business. he's taking his show on the road. that's what he's doing. he's meddling and putting out misinformation and doing all kinds of things that he's done here and seeing if the same tricks work elsewhere, and they often do, actually. >> there are certainly some democrats that were hoping that the president- elect will tire of him. >> yes. >> and that relationship will sour. what do you -- >> there's some republicans hoping that, too, by the way. maggie haberman has covered him, and he's living in a cottage there at mar-a- lago, something like that. and i think a lot of people feel it might change once trump gets to the white house, when it's harder to get in, a

question if he has an office in the west wing, an executive office building, if he gets the famous passes, i think the green or the blue pass that you get on the campus pretty easily, the white house campus. the question is, how did he thrive within a white house trump administration? and i do know, i've been called by a lot of trump officials who are -- they essentially say, well, you were right about musk. i'm like, uh-huh. what do we do? good luck controlling him. >> there's got to be a lot of, i don't know what the emotions of the other tech billionaires must be, i mean, jeff bezos, you know -- >> well, you see what they're doing. >> they've all obviously gone down to mar-a-lago. >> yeah, eats of itude. amazon just decided to do a positive trump documentary -- >> brett ratter in is involved. >> right, which is an interesting choice. and then today mark zuckerberg put dana white on the board of meta. he's an mma fan, so, that may

be that, but he's a very close trump supporter. you know, i think they're all doing various things they can do to kiss up to trump. >> jeff bezos, you know, space -- blue origin, his space company, is something he cares a lot about. >> very much so. >> that was his post- amazon plan. i know he's doing a lot at amazon now in a.i. , but with elon musk, they are -- competitors in this. >> absolutely. >> and so, that's got to be a big blow to -- to that business. >> well, he wants to be part of that. people don't realize, when jeff, at the end of high school, his speech was on space. he loves space. and, so, he wants to be doing this, and elon is directly in his way, and will advantage.

anything elon will do, he'll be first in line. a lot of the other moguls are like, how do i get a piece of this, how do i get that? tiktok, what's going to happen to tiktok, things like that? trump will have a lot of sway over that. so they want to get in there, in order to do that, you have to pay. >> you said something like musk , the toxic noise is the point. with musk, toxic noise is the point. >> yes it is. >> that's his brand now? >> it's sort of the flood the zone thing that steve bannon perfected. you flood the zone with misinformation, and there's a little bit of real information in there, or discontent. people in britain are worried about this topic, and then you say something so outrageous that people then respond. they're on your agenda, and not vice versa. today, all the european leaders, obviously ordinating, were trying to push back on him, but now, he's the story. which is how he likes it. >> is there a business reason to get involved in british

politics, politics in europe? >> it's about control, yeah. i think get rid of regulation. that's part of the thing. and i think he just likes it now. this is what amuses him. he's not paying attention to tesla, they'd have better models. >> how can he be running all these companies? >> he's not. there's a very good executive at spacex. and tesla is falling behind, byd and other things in terms of innovation and new products. and that's why its sales are off for the first time, global sales are down. so, he's not paying attention to the other companies. a.i. is a big interest of his, obviously, and he's doing that by suing openai and -- >> he's -- is he trying to destroy openai? >> yes, yes, because he created it and they moved on without him and that will not -- elon musk will not put up with that. >> you've done fascinating interviews with sam altman. >> i think openai is way attention, head, and that's the problem. everyone thinks that elon is an entrepreneur, and he is, but he's a better person.

he didn't create tesla, for example, or some of the other things, he is just a good business person. a henry ford character. and i think what's interesting, he uses lawsuits, noise, he uses attacks, personal attacks, he uses his now twitter, he uses that, or x, whatever you want to call it. he uses all his tools to do these things. and they're often the same, they're all to create noise and attention on him. because really, the stock reflects elon musk all the time. >> he has a lot of levers. >> he does now. >> kara, thank you. always great to talk to you. up next, justin trudeau's departure as canada's prime minister. and the president and first lady are in new orleans. we're going to have comments there, plus more on the ongoing investigation. and later, more on the unease surrounding january 6th pardons.

president biden is in new orleans right now. he and the first lady laid a wreath on bourbon street shortly after they arrived to remember the 14 people killed and at least 35 injured five days ago when a terrorist rammed his truck into a crowd celebrating the new year and also shot people. the visit comes the same day the city kicks off another popular attraction, carnival season, promoting the fresh concerns about the city's security. about a half hour ago, president biden spoke at an interfaith prayer service, invoking his own experience with grief and loss. >> the families left behind , we know from some experience, it's hard, but i promise you, the day will come when the memory of your loved one, you open

that closet door, you smell that fragrance, just remember that last, the memory of your loved one will bring a smile to your lips before a tear to your eye. >> the president's visit comes a day after the fbi released new videos of the attacker. the fbi says this video is from sometime around late october, one of two visits investigators say he made in the months prior to the attack. it shows him filming what he sees in the french quarter with a pair of meta smart glasses. the fbi released videos showing him placing coolers that contained an ied, a block apart on bourbon street, hours prior to the attack. neither were detonated. joined now by former fbi director andy mccabe. he visited new orleans twice and used these meta smart glasses to videotape things, i guess without being noticed. >> yeah, absolutely. we got a lot of information out of that press conference yesterday. the details about his prior trips to new orleans, in

the months preceding the attack, with the additional detail of his reservation of the vehicle he wanted to use for the attack, six weeks before it occurred, ÷÷really opened up a different side of this attacker. it really shows him to be much more deeply engaged in long- term operational planning cycle. initially, the reports that he had driven to new orleans, essentially the evening before the attack, seemed to make it seem like a, you know, a matter of haste, or an e motional response to something, but that is not the case here. this guy really planned this thing out with -- with -- you know, in a meticulous and highly organized way. and i should say, he employed some techniques here that seem to go beyond his experience in the military. the composition of the ieds, planting the bombs, these are probably things he did not learn in his military training, because of the sorts of assignments he had were more

administrative. >> john miller also reported a couple of days ago about this unique compound that was apparently used in the -- in the ieds, which is not something that's been used or seen in the u.s. before. >> yeah, i think, for me, anderson, all these small details that seem ano, ma'am mouse with his background and experience all start to point in the direction of assistance or aid. now, there's no proof of this yet, we don't have any solid evidence that he was actually working with people in isis or some other terrorist group, but his foreign travel certainly opens up the possibility that the purpose of that travel was to meet with terrorists or supporters of terrorist causes, who could help him plan this attack. and now, when you have details like the explosive compound, again, these are -- these are sophisticated steps for a guy who probably had very little explosives, if any,

explosives experience before this attack. and if he was actually planning with isis members or isis supporters overseas, that's a very concerning development, but it also presents an elegant and effective lead for investigators to follow, to open up visibility on a pipeline of potentially other operatives. >> it's also interesting, i want to show this new video of this attacker placing coolers with ieds inside of them on bourbon street, which officials say he planned to detonate, but had the wrong device to do so, it was reported days ago that he had a transmitter in his vehicle. how unusual is -- i mean, first of all, it's unusual that he would go to the location first, plant these devices, and then, i guess, go and retrieve his vehicle and make this attack. how unusual is it for a preplan like this to have one individual setting off, you know, setting up these things in

advance and then botching a destination like that? >> you know, you go to war with the army you have, right? and so, if you are an isis recruiter, and you see this jabbar has an opportunity to take someone with a clean passport, who lives in the united states, to get him trained up and back in there to execute this attack, that's the guy you go with. it would be better to operatives, but they may have only had one. as far as his failures with the detonation of the devices, that's not atypical at all. homemade devices are typically unreliable, and particularly when they're made by first- time explosives builders. if this was his first time constructing devices, it's possible that he had trouble kind of putting them together in a reliable and effective way. we've seen that in many, many cases, in fact, the man who intended to blow up new york city subway trains, was discovered because he made

email communications back to his bomb trainer in pakistan, when he couldn't figure out how to get the mixture correct in his devices. so, very common among first- time operatives. >> all right, andy, thank you. coming up, more on the possibility of presidential pardons for january 6th rioters. the story of a father sentenced to more than seven years in prison for his crimes versus the son who helped put him there, and hopes he stays in prison. donie o'sullivan joins us with that story. and later, the legacy of former president carter, who will lie in state tomorrow in the capitol rotunda. lesley stahl will join us, having interviewed the former president over the years.

after nine years on the job and in the headlines, canada's prime minister justin trudeau headed for the exits, saying today he's leaving office and stepping down as leader of canada's liberal party once a new leader is chosen. more tonight from randi kaye, who joins us. what led to the resignation? >> reporter: well, anderson, justin trudeau billed himself as a feminist, environmentalist, and after donald trump took office in 2017, he really attempted to differentiate himself from donald trump. and when president trump ordered÷÷that temporary ban on the -- the muslim ban on the muslim countries, trudeau went to the airport and pretty much defied him and welcomed the syrian refugees to canada. not all canadians were happy with the refugees. he pushed for the restrictive measures during the pandemic. people in canada were not happy about that there were

protests in canada about that. now trump has repeatedly suggested that canada become this 51st u.s. state, so, that's been an issue for trudeau. he's been getting hit at home on the economy, as well, and how he's been handling that. over christmas, trump has really been trolling him, he said that wayne gretzky, the hockey great, should run for prime minister in canada. he's now calling justin trudeau the governor, because he's considering it a 51st state. and finally, anderson, trump's billionaire buddy elon musk unleashed on trudeau online, writing this about him on, that he's such an insufferable tool, he won't be if n power much longer. >> can you just remind people of his background? his ascent to the prime minister job was a huge story. >> reporter: yeah, i mean, he was born on christmas, and he comes from a family in politics. his father was a prime minister of canada for four terms. he worked at a high

school teacher before joining parliament. he was elected to parliament in 2008 at the age of 36. and then eventual little he got a real jolt of popularity in 2012 and voted into his role at prime minister in 2015. >> all right, randi kaye, thank you very much. back to our top story tonight, january 6th, then very us now. the former so-called ed proud boys leader hoping for a pardon is not alone. more than 1,500 people were charged with crimes connected to january 6th. the president- elect told "time" magazine the pardons will come within the first hour, but he's been vague about a blanket pardon. this issue hasn't just split the nation, but a family, where a son turned in and later testified against his father, who, for now, remains in prison. donie o'sullivan has that story. >> reporter: if trump pardons your dad, what's your biggest fear? >> just getting shot in the street. >> reporter: by your father? >> by my father, by someone he knows. there's a bunch of people that

i don't know, and i don't know their intent, so -- you want to help me with this? >> reporter: sure. this is jackson. going to take this in? >> yes, please. >> reporter: he says he's moving out of his rental home and into hiding for his our safety. >> bought a gun, because i got so paranoid. moving out because i'm scared. >> reporter: you know how to fire a gun? >> yeah. i've been shooting it. >> reporter: you have it on you right now? >> yeah, i have to wear it around the house kind of often just to get used to how it feels. >> reporter: okay. jackson's dad was a member of the texas three percenter militia. >> i just kept going, go forward, go forward. >> reporter: he's serving a more than seven- year sentence for his role in the january 6th capitol attack. he was convicted of five felonies, including carrying a firearm on capitol grounds. you reported your dad to the fbi. >> yes. >> reporter: that's what got him arrested, basically?

>> more or less, yeah. >> reporter: what affect has that had on your family? >> ah, it's destroyed it. >> reporter: was there a moment where you thought, i know my dad's done all this stuff , but i don't want to report him? >> ah -- yeah. i still feel horrible, of course. like, i can't get over it, but i don't really regret it. >> reporter: when was the last time you spoke to your dad? >> five months ago. the first time i talked to him. and it was just a crying fest for the first ten minutes, and that was great. and then i brought up the fact that i'm wore rid about ried about him getting out. he was confused as to why i thought that. >> reporter: are you overreacting? >> no. i get death threats daily. hourly, at this point. >> it was our 18-year- old son who turned his dad into the fbi. >> why? >> what? >> why did he do it? >> my son is a declared democratic socialist. >> reporter: jackson's mom nicole has become one of the most prominent

people campaigning for the release of people serving time for january 6th. >> lift up each and every one of our j-6ers. >> reporter: nicole left texas and moved to washington, d.c. , where she takes part in a nightly vigil held here outside the city's jail. you've been coming here for hundreds of nights. >> almost 900. >> reporter: why? >> after i saw what happened to my husband, i could not sit on my hands at home anymore. >> reporter: you wish guy didn't come here on january 6th? >> no, i'm glad he stood up for something. >> reporter: every night, january 6th prisoners from around the country call into the vigil. >> continue holding the line, the thing's almost done. >> reporter: including guy, who recently called in to wish nicole a happy birthday. >> happy birthday. sorry i couldn't get you something better than 80 months. >> reporter: are you confidentconfident that trump will let your husband walk free? >> i feel like trump is a man of his word. >> reporter: nicole is sometimes joined in d.c. by her

two daughters, jackson's sisters, who have been caught in the middle of a divided family. >> we have nothing against jackson. i love him. i love him no more than i love my father, i love my family. >> the gurls and girls and i have received hundreds of mailed death threats. i'm not talking about online things, i'm talking about rape to my daughters, death to my husband, death to me. >> reporter: you don't think jackson has to be afraid of his dad? >> no. i think that's been put on the record several times. >> reporter: so why is jackson still afraid? >> ah, i just think that it's the same thing where people think this red hat on my head is scary and dangerous. it's that same mentality. jackson comes from a lot of love and there's a lot of love to give. and justice for all. >> i mean, i love my mom, of course. i love her. >> reporter: do you love your dad? >> of course i love my dad. i love my dad, but i can't -- i can't feel safe around him.

i hate having to put myself in this situation, to feel some sort of comfort after the election and what's going to happen, when my dad gets a pardon, when hundreds of people get pardoned and thousands of people get validated for their actions, and i'm one of those people they call a traitor? my dad once said traitors get shot. that's been in my head for years and years and years. >> reporter: in a message from prison, guy said that jackson has never had anything to worry about from me, and he will never have anything to worry about from me, ever. if your dad's watching this, what's your message to him? >> ah, that i love him, and that i hope he gets better. and i hope i get better, too. i hope i grow out of this paranoia right now, and that i really thought what i did was right. i thought i did what i did to protect him and my family and the people around him and the people he could have hurt. >> donie is joining us from washington, d.c. what's going on there tonight, donie?

>> reporter: hey, anderson. yeah, look, these demonstrators behind me here, they've been gathering here for almost 900 nights. a lot of them are relatives, have family members who are serving, either in the d.c. jail here or in prisons across the country. what's been happening is, as you saw in that piece, some prisoners are calling in. there is just a couple of counter demonstrators across the street here, but a very large police presence here. and look, i think this just really underlies, anderson, these are some of the reddest of the red maga folks, and they are really expecting president- elect trump to pardon everybody, from the proud boys on down. and, you know, you can see here the dedication , many will say they're misled in their efforts, misguided, but they are not going to stop making noise until president trump pardons

everybody. anderson? >> donie, incredible to see that family divided like that. thank you very much. remembering former jimmy carter next, with cbs news' lesley stahl. we'll be right back.

right now, georgia is saying good-bye to the 39th president of the united states. its native son and former governor jimmy carter. his body will lie in repose at the carter center in atlanta until tomorrow morning.

then an air force plane will carry the casket to washington, where he will lie in state, where americans can pay respects until his state funeral thursday. jimmy carter died last week at the age of 100. he'd be laid to rest in plains, georgia, next to his wife of 77 years, rosalynn, who died last year. joining me tonight, lesley stahl, who covered president carter for cbs during his one term in the white house. she interviewed him a number of times, including in 2010 for "60 minutes" when she asked him about one of his perceived shortcomings. >> they told you you had an image of weakness. >> that's right. they did. >> a lack of esteem in the public eye. and they just beat up on you. >> i think they were telling me that the public image of me was that i was not a strong leader. that i should not only arouse support from affection, but also from fear. >> so, did you change?

did you start to operate from fear? >> maybe i a little bit more than i would have. >> it's so fascinating. the -- i think people forget, he -- he tried to get the white house to stop playing hail to the chief when he entered a room. he did a lot of things which the american public wasn't used to. he actually reversed himself on the hail to the chief. what was he like to cover? >> well, he reversed himself, because the public wanted him to be ceremonial. they liked the trappings of -- of the idea of presidential power. he -- he felt that after nixon, it was time to dial back on the imperial presidency. the public didn't like that. so, that's why he had to give up all these things that he was trying to do to reduce the -- the sort of imagery. >> he also didn't like the -- the politicking, the deal-making. >> right. >> in an interview with you, in these recordings he had

made, i mean, he was calling congresspeople who wanted , you know, okay, i'll support you in this, if you hire this person for this position. he found that, like, hostage- taking, i think he referred to it. >> yeah, he also felt it was sinful, you know? he was a very eligious man. and he felt like there was something smarmy about making deals. when i saw spielberg's movie on lincoln and i realized how much of that had gone on in his presidency, i realized that , you know know, there were things that make a president successful that jimmy carter just didn't want to do, didn't respect. and it hurt him. it hurt his image. >> he wasn't sort of part of the washington establishment, the democratic establishment when he ran for governor. he ran once, lost, second time he got it. was that part of the problem? my understanding, official washington just rejected him and everybody around him. >> he rejected official washington. >> that's true, too. >> it really -- i think

it started with him. >> he made notes, recordings, like journals that he would actually record them while he was in office, later published them. you interviewed him for that. i mean, they were brutally honest. >> well, the little clip you ran, that was his cabinet, he invited them to criticize him. said, come on, beat up on me. and they did. they told him that he had an image of weakness, that he was not perceived as being strong, and that he needed to toughen up, to become a more successful president. you know, we say that he was not successful, and yet, today, as we have a revisionism on jimmy carter coming forth, we realize how much he really did get done. and when you see the list, it's astonishing. >> his domestic policy adviser was on recently, or, i was talking to him. one of the things he was pointing out, a lot of the deregulation, which we associate with ronald reagan, jimmy carter actually

started deregulating the airlines, enabling more people to be able to sort of democratizing the airline industry, the cable industry. >> he was famous for it at the time, even though later ronald reagan got all the credit for deregulating. someone said that jimmy carter ÷÷was the first republican president, because he did that, and so many other things. i mean, camp david, he -- he shepherded, if he hadn't put his elbow grease into it, he was the one who got israel and egypt to sign a peace treaty that's still in existence today. >> yeah. >> he, you know, he started fema. the list goes on and on, what he did. he had -- he had energy policy that was successful. >> he had the longest post- presidency, 43 years. when he left office, did you anticipate -- did you ever anticipate kind of the post- presidency that he would have?