and i think we will lose anyway but admit it and move on. you keep going on tv and talk like this and you will lose all credibility . >> to admit it now would be to effectively be admitting one of the biggest coverups and modern american political history. democrat politicians lied, democrat pundits lied, a lot of people who cover the white house looked the other way or believed by the white house press secretary. cheap fakes. so you think about the pantheon of people who were engaged in the line, in the lying and believing the lying or the cover-up itself to admit it now, would be to say, you know what america, we did try to pull the wool over your eyes and you were not buying it. now would be to admit this massive huge cover-up. >> and also be to kick a guy when he's down. i think we live in the real world. and this is politics. he's not going to throw joe biden all the way under the

bus at this stage. >> i think if the debate wouldn't have happened, joe biden would have filled in at the top of the ticket in november. but that debate was telling and i think anybody who watche

wasn't being put out there very much, that was the tell. >> there were a number of moments that were not -- >> thank you very much. and thank you for watching "news night." cnn's coverage continues next. >> tonight on 360, the difference four years can make and what the next four years might bring as the loser is certified and the winner becomes the 27th president two weeks from now. having spent a quarter of a billion dollars on the race, now inflam inflammatory allegations from overseas. jimmy carter with perhaps the most highly praised ex-president

with, -- it is quiet on capitol hill, with beefed up security for the tranquility. in keeping with nearly every other such occasion, every four years lawmakers in both parties did their jobs. they certified a presidential election and the one who came up short in it did not try to short circuit the process. in fact, she oversaw it. >> this announcement of the state of the vote by the president of the senate shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons elected, president and vice president of the united states. each for a term beginning on the 20th day of january, 2025. >> vice president harris' announcement ratifying her opponent's victory today came after lawmakers took just 30 minutes to certify all 538 electoral votes. four years ago, took just under 15 hours and one attempted insurrection. mike collins of georgia described like so on social media. i quote, on this day in

history, in 2021, thousands of peaceful grandmothers gathered in washington, d.c. to take a self- guided albeit unauthorized tour of the us capitol building. during this time, some individuals entered the capitol, took photos and explored the building before leaving. his characterization four years later might come as news to more than 400 police officers and other law enforcement officers injured that day. and to the families of the officers who died in the following days, one of multiple strokes, others by suicide. might come as news to mike pence who had to be evacuated from the senate chamber along with members of his family, a few short seconds ahead of rioters and was prevented by what congressman collins calls thousands of peaceful grandmothers from returning until after 3:00 the next morning. that's when he finally managed to say these words. >> the votes for president of the united states are as follows. joseph r. biden jr. of the state of delaware has received 306 votes. donald j. trump with the

state of florida has received 232 votes. >> today on social media, pence said he welcomed the return of order and civility to the proceedings and said it was, quote, particularly admirable that vice president harris would preside over the certification of a presidential election that she lost. as for the rioters, president-elect trump promised pardons, he's not specified if that means all or some of them. today, one of them, the former leader of the so- called proud boys who is serving 22 years for seditious conspiracy formally requested one. his lawyer called him, i quote, a young man with an aspiring future ahead of him. as for the president- elect, he posted this photo on social media today, that is the ellipse four years ago and the crowd he summoned to washington with the words, will be wild. the biggest difference between then now and now this time, he won, just two weeks from tomorrow he'll become president again. here to talk about it, david axelrod, alisa griffin.

>> how i describe what happened four years ago is sheer fantasy. we need to say that donald trump in 2020 told a malignant flagrant lie and sold it to his supporters who came to washington on the basis of that lie and stormed the capitol on the erroneous impression that the election was fraudulent. and that has been proven, disproven and disproven and disproven over and over and over again. and that was a -- that was an unforgettable sin against our democracy. if he's gotted elected president again. he will be president. it doesn't erase the memory of that. what you saw today, anderson, is how a functioning democracy works. and there is no rule in

the constitution that gives you the right to overrule that process and overrun the capitol if you don't like the results. so, history is clear. and no rewriting on x is going to change that. >> listen, president- elect trump was complaining to hugh hewitt today about the president biden how his team were handling the transition. i want to play this. >> they'll do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible. you know, they talk about a transition. they're always saying we want to have a smooth transition from party to party for, you know, of government. well, they're making it really difficult. they're throwing everything they can in the way. >> does it make sense to you? obviously, i mean, he's also talking about legal cases, calling president biden dumb as a rock, does it work for him to do this? >> it works maybe with his base. it is absolutely not what the

75 million voters who voted for him and elected him want him to be focusing on. as a factual matter, donald trump made it extremely difficult for the biden transition to come into the extent where the incoming chief of staff couldn't get basic details in the west wing, basic access until the days before he was going to be coming into office because donald trump was selling this myth and actually trying to execute this myth that he was going to stay in office. but, listen, donald trump won because people care about the cost of living and the border. the more he's talking about prosecuting people or whatever his rantings on x and truth are, it is a distraction from what people wanted from him. he would be wise to listen to the vast majority of the country, not to the small 30% of the republican party base that is going to be with him no matter what he does. >> bakari, how do democrats not become background noise? >> they have to learn their lesson first. which is january 6th is an important day, as david stressed. it is a day that is etched in our country's history. the problem with democrats and what they have to realize is it doesn't move voters anymore. voters have a short memory.

what moved voters is what alisa talked about. you have to be talking about lowering grocery prices. you have to talk about the cost of living. you have to talk about the things that every average american is talking about at their kitchen table and we lost focus of that. january 6th is a day that if i were to sit here and tell alisa or anyone else, i want to injure 140 police officers, i want to make sure the president of the united states is down at the mall, threatening democracy and then if kamala harris doesn't certify the elections, i want her hung, that would actually chill the backbone of people that heard me say that. that's what we went through. that is a day in our history. but going forward, democrats have to be about the party of tomorrow. donald trump is a very little man as we just saw in his talking to hugh hewitt about how difficult it is. he's going to air those grievances. that's fine. but democrats have to find some backbone and be a party about tomorrow, not necessarily about january 6th. >> once the president- elect is sworn in, he'll control the white house, both houses of

congress, majority in the ÷÷supreme court. do you think -- who does he go after if things don't go his way? >> well, i hope nobody, anderson. i hope things go his way. listen, i love hearing what bakari is saying and others. i think it is incumbent upon democrats to offer an alternative vision, perhaps cooperate on areas they can agree with with this president. americans want to see america succeed. the bulk of democrats want to see america succeed, who may not have voted for trump, but want to see our country succeed and move forward. i think to the extent there are common ground that can be reached, i think speaker johnson is going to work with hakeem jeffreys to the extent possible they're going to need democratic votes in the house on certain measures to get bills passed. you're talking about whether there is going to be one or two big reconciliation bills. democrats are going to be part of that, part of it in the house as well as the senate. and so i think it behooves democrats to cooperate where they can, to present alternative ideas if they have

them. if they want to move forward and get back in the fray here, that's what they're going to need to do. bakari is exactly correct. >> david axelrod, how do you see the first 100 days going in terms of what democrats do, how trump interacts with them? >> listen, i want to echo what dave urban said. i do believe that, you know, you're elected not to advance the interests of your party, but the interests of your country. i was, you know, appalled in 2009 when barack obama took office in that very day rush limbaugh told the nation that he was rooting for obama to fail. donald trump has said he's going to lower people's prices and very quickly. you know, he said he's going to take care of the border, going to reduce crime, he's going to end war, he's going to do a lot of things. if he does all those things, god bless him. good for him. but -- and good for the country. and if there are places where democrats and republicans can

cooperate, that is -- that is positive. but the fact is he is not evidenced in the past a particular desire to want to work with democrats. if you read his social media feeds, that's pretty clear, even to this day. it would behoove him as it behooves democrats to say i got bigger things to do than air my grievances and go after my enemies. i want to work with people where i can. and let's see if he does that. >> listen, just in terms of his -- the people he wants to have in his cabinet, the people he wants head of the department of justice, the fbi, not the department of justice, fbi, department of defense, do you think he'll get them all? >> i don't think he'll get them all. he'll get the majority of them and he should. incoming presidents have the right to fill their cabinet. right now background checks are going on and

investigations, there will be confirmation hearings. with a few picks there are questions around qualifications. pete hegseth, he served our country, but there is character issues and then there is the actual credentials and ability to run the biggest organization in the u.s. military. that's one i would keep my eye on. kash patel, i worked with kash patel, i liked him when i was in the administration, this is a person who says some really wacky stuff but he's reasonably qualified for the job. he worked in congress. he worked in the department of justice in more junior roles before. if he shows up and says we're not going to prosecute liz cheney, we're going to focus on transnational criminal organizations, go after human traffickers, don't listen to the more wild out there conspiracy theories, this will be my focus. >> david urban. >> i don't know that kash patel wants alisa's endorsement. i'm not sure that helps him. >> i want to play something that president- elect said to hugh

hewitt today. >> in my first term, people were fighting me. all the way. they were just fighting me. in this term, it is so different. i think -- i don't want to say people have given up, because that's not nice. but they recognize that we really do have that mandate. >> do you think that's true? >> no, it is delusional. the fact that people around him continuously say that there was ÷÷a mandate, first, let's address that. this was the closest popular vote we had since bush v. gore, right? and it was one of the closest ones we had in american history. in terms of the electoral college, there were 200,000 votes different along the blue wall, along pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan. 200,000 votes. that's pretty close. if you look at the house, that is insanely close. how many votes, three, four? depends how many people get put into one of the cabinet positions, three, four vote difference. it is not a mandate by any stretch. and i do believe, democrats are tired right now. we'ry e e weary right

now. when you don't win, particularly to someone like donald trump, it takes the life out of you. but to say that democrats won't be there to fight, of course, to david's point, where there are ways to work with donald trump and the administration, they'll work with him. but there is still going to be a fight. there is a question about who represents the values of this country and where we want to go and the country we want our children to be raised in. >> double davids, thank you. >> anderson -- >> go ahead. >> i know kari wants to put an asterisk there, he's fine, he's entitled after the w. what i think is different in this administration, the kickoff, on the day of inauguration, there won't be a article in "the washington post" calling for donald trump's impeachment. the first two years won't be marred by a fake russia investigation where the entire administration is subjected to subpoenas and a witch hint now, we look back in retrospect and kept him from accomplishing a lot of things. he's getting to start with

a clean slate and david axelrod's point, there are a lot of things that the american people want to see done, border secured, prices come down, crises around the world solved, so the plate is going to be full. as americans we should all hope for success early, quickly, and thoroughly. >> i'm praying for his success, david. i'm praying for it. >> thank you. coming up next, elon musk soon to be part of the u.s. government sort of now weighing in against britain's government. kara swisher joins us to talk about what the world's richest man is up to. and canada's prime minister stepping down, why the luster faded from the heir to the canadian political dynasty and what happens next ahead on "360."

elon musk today asked his 211 million online followers whether the united states should overthrow the government of one of his country's oldest closest allies. here is the proposition.

america should liberate the people of britain from their tyrannical government. in a 2014 report, it was found 1400 kids had been abused by gangs of men in the northern english town of rogerham in 1997, lasting more than a decade. today the british prime minister responded by suggesting that musk was spreading lies and misinformation. britain's leader of the liberal democratic party said the american ambassador should be summoned to explain in his words why an incoming u.s. official is suggesting the uk government should be overthrown. joining me now is kara swisher who covered and ed musk for years and author of the great book "turn book: a tech love story ". what is musk doing here? >> i guess being patrick henry, i'm not sure what is happening. i think he's emboldened by his success here in the united states and his fortune has doubled. it is incredible.

>> the investment he made, which a lot of people are, like, $250 million is a lot of money. >> it is not. that's a 10x, he made $250 billion from that. his wealth has doubled and -- >> his stock is going, like -- >> tesla and some others, even though the results at tesla weren't so good recently. >> but people -- i guess investors believe he's so now linked to the trump -- >> that's correct. >> he's getting government contracts. >> i think the idea is this is not -- this is a fraction of elon musk's business. he's taking his show on the road. that's what he's doing. he's meddling and putting out misinformation and doing all kinds of things he's done here and seeing if the same tricks work elsewhere and they often do actually. >> there are democrats who were hoping that, you know, the president- elect will tire of him and that the relationship will sour. what do you -- >> there are some republicans hoping that too, by the way. i interviewed maggie haberman who covered him and

he's living in a cottage at mar-a-lago. the banyon cottage or something like that. i think a lot of people feel it might change once trump gets to the white house, when it is harder to get in, question if he has an office in the west wing, an executive office building, whether he gets famous passes, green and blue pass you get on the campus, the white house campus. the question, how does he thrive within a white house trump administration? and i do know i've been called by a lot of trump officials who are -- they essentially say, well, you're right about musk, and i'm, like, uh- huh, and they're, like, what do we do? i say good luck controlling him. >> there's got to be a lot of -- i don't know what the emotions of the other tech billionaires must be. jeff bezos, you know -- >> you see what they're doing. >> they all have gone down to mar-a-lago. >> i call it feats of servitude. not just going to mar-a- lago, but amazon just decided to do a very positive documentary.

>> mark ratner is involved. >> which is an interesting choice. and today mark zuckerberg put dan white on the board of meta. he's an mma fan, so that may be that, but he's a very close trump supporter. i think they're all doing var ious and sundry things to kiss up to trump. >> blue origin was his post amazon plan. he's doing a lot at amazon on a.i. but with elon musk, they are competitors in this. >> absolutely. >> so that's got to be a big blow to that business. >> he wants to -- he wants to be part of that. people don't realize -- jeff was valedictorian of his high school, his speech was on space. he loves space. he wants to be doing this and elon is directly in his way and will advantage. anything he wants to do, he'll be first in line. a lot of the other moguls are, like, how do i get a piece? how do i get a piece of this, how do i get that? tiktok, what is going to

happen to tiktok and things like that. trump will have a lot of sway over that. they all want to get in there and in order to do that, you have to pay essentially. >> you said musk, toxic noise is the point, with musk, toxic noise is the point. >> yes, it is. >> that's his brand now? >> no, he creates all kinds of -- it is the flood the zone thing that steve bannon perfected. you flood the zone with misinformation. there is a little bit of real information in there or discontent, people in britain are worried about this topic and make it a mess and say something so outrageous that people then respond and then you're on their -- they're on your agenda and not vice versa. today, all the european leaders obviously coordinating. it felt like a coordinated effort. we're trying to push back on him. now, he's the story, which is how elon musk likes it. >> is there a business reason to get involved in british politics and politics in europe? >> it is about control, yeah. if they can have control, get rid of regulation, that's part of the thing. and i think he likes it now.

this is what amuses him. he's not paying attention to -- >> how can he be running all these companys? >> he's not. he's not. there is a very good executive at spacex, at tesla. tesla is falling behind. byd and other things in terms of innovation and new products and that's why its sales are off for the first time. its global sales are down. so he's not paying attention to the other companies. a.i. is a big interest of his obviously enl and he's doing that by pursuing openai. >> is he trying to destroy openai? >> yes, because he created it and they're moving on without him and that -- elon musk will not put up with that. >> you've been fascinating interviews with sam. >> i think openai is way ahead and that's the problem. anything to slow competitors down, everyone thinks of elon as an entrepreneur and he is in a way, but he's a better business person than anything else. he didn't create tesla, for example, or some of the other things. he just is a good business person, like a henry ford character. and i think what is

interesting about it is he uses lawsuits, he uses noise, he uses attacks, personal attacks, he uses his twitter, he uses that or x, whatever you want to call it. he uses all his tools to do these things and they're often the same, all to create noise and attention on him because really the stock reflects elon musk all the time. >> a lot of levers to pull. >> he does now, absolutely. >> kara swisher, thank you so much. appreciate it. great to talk to you. up next, justin trudeau's departure as canada's prime minister and joe and jill biden are in new orleans where he just spoke at a service remembering people murdered in a terrorist attack on new year's day. we'll have more on the ongoing investigation and donnie o'sullivan speaks with a son who fears for his life after putting his father in prison.

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president biden is in new orleans right now. he and the first lady laid a wreath on bourbon street after they arrived to remember the 14 people killed and 35 injured five days ago when a terrorist rammed his truck into a crowd celebrating the new year and also shot people. the visit comes the same day the city kicks off another popular attraction, carnival season, promoting the fresh concerns about the city's security. a half hour ago, president biden spoke at an interfaith prayer service invoking his own experience with grief and loss. >> the families left behind, you know from some experience it is hard, but i promise you, the day will come when the memory of your loved one, you open that closet door, smell that fragrance, just remember that

laugh, when the memory of your loved one will bring a smile to your lips before a tear to your eye. >> the president's visit comes a day after the fbi released new videos of the attacker. the fbi says this video is from sometime around late october, one of two visits he made in the months prior to the attack. it shows him bicycling through the french quarter and filming what he sees with a pair of meta smart glasses. the fbi released videos that shows him placing two different coolers that both contained improvised explosive devices hours prior to the attack. neither were detonated. joined by andy mccabe. we're surprised to learn he visited new orleans twice and used meta smart glasses to videotape things without being noticed. >> yeah. absolutely. we got a lot of information out of that press conference yesterday. the details about his prior trips to new orleans in the months proceeding the

attack with the additional detail of this reservation of the vehicle that he wanted to use for the attack six weeks before it occurred really opened up a different side of this attacker. it really shows him to be much more deeply engaged in a long- term operational planning cycle. initially the reports that he had driven to new orleans, essentially the evening before the attack, seemed to make it seem like a matter of haste or an emotional response to something. but that is not the case here. this guy really planned this thing out with -- with a meticulous and highly organized way. and i should say he employed some techniques here that seemed to go beyond his experience in the military. the composition of the ieds, the planting of the bombs, things he did not learn in his military training because of the sorts of assignments he had were more ard administrative. makes him look much more

serious than we thought. >> it was reported about this unique compound that was apparently used in the ieds which is not something that has been used or seen in the u.s. before. >> yeah. i think for me, anderson, all these small details that seem anomalous with his background and experience all start to point in the direction of assistance or aid. now, there is no proof of this yet. we don't have any solid evidence that he was actually working with people in isis or some other terrorist group. but his foreign travel certainly opens up the possibility that the purpose of that travel was to meet with terrorists or supporters of terrorist causes who could help him plan this attack. and now when you have details like the explosive compound, again, these are sophisticated steps for a guy who probably had very little explosives, if any explosives experience before this attack.

and if he was actually planning with isis members or isis supporters overseas, this is a very concerning development. but it also presents an elegant and effective lead for investigators to follow, to open up visibility on a pipeline of potentially other operatives. >> it is also interesting, i want to show again this new video of this attacker placing coolers with ieds inside of them on bourbon street, which officials say he planned to detonate, but had the wrong device to do so as reported days ago that he had a transmitter in his vehicle. how unusual is -- first of all, it is unusual he would go to the location first, plant these devices, and then, i guess, go and retrieve his vehicle and make this attack. how unusual is it for a preplan like this to have one individual setting off -- setting up these things in advance and then botching a detonation like

that? >> you know, you go to war with the army you have. right? and so if you are an isis recruiter and you see this jabbar as an opportunity to take someone with a clean passport, who lives in the united states, get him trained up and back in there to execute this, that's the guy you go with. better to have several operatives but they may have only had one. as far as his failures with the detonation of the devices, that's not atypical at all. homemade devices are typically unreliable and particularly when they're made by first time explosive builders. if this was his first time constructing devices, it is possible that he had trouble kind of putting them together in a reliable and effective way. we have seen that in many, many cases. zazi who intended to blow up new york city subway trains was discovered because he made email communications back to his bomb trainer in pakistan when

he couldn't figure out how to get the mixture correct in his devices. so very common among first time operatives. >> andrew mccabe, appreciate it. coming up, more on the possibility of presidential pardons for january 6th rioters. we'll have the story of a father sentenced to prison for his crimes versus the son who put him there. donie o'sullivan has that. and joining me lesley stahl who covered carter's administration and interviewed the former president over the years.

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after nine years on the job and headlines, canada's prime minister justin trudeau headed for the exit saying he's leaving office and stepping down as leader of canada's liberal party once a new leader is chosen. more tonight from randi kaye who joins us. what led to his resignation? >> well, anderson, justin trudeau built this

progressive brand, he billed himself as a feminist, environmentalist and after donald trump took office in 2017, trudeau really attempted to differentiate himself from donald trump. and when president trump ordered that temporary ban on the muslim ban as he called it on those muslim countries, trudeau went to the airport and defied him and welcomed the syrian refugees to canada, not all canadians were happy about the refugees and then in 2017, his star really started to fade because of that. and he pushed for the very restrictive measures during the pandemic, people in canada were not happy about that, protests all across canada about that that paralyzed the country. and now trump has repeatedly suggested as you know that canada become this 51st u.s. state. that's been an issue for trudeau. he's been getting hit at home on the economy as well and how he's been handling that and then over christmas, trump has been trolling him, saying wayne gretzky, the hockey great, should run for prime minister in canada. he is now calling justin

trudeau the governor because he's considering it the 51st state and finally, anderson, trump's billionaire buddy elon musk unleashed his own assault on trudeau online writing this, he's such an insufferable tool, he won't be in power much longer. all of that, anderson, combined, has been a real issue for justin trudeau at home. >> can you remind people of his background? he ascended to the prime minister job in 2015 and it was a huge story. >> yeah, i mean, he was born on christmas and comes from a family of politics. his father was a prime minister of canada for four terms. he worked as a high schoolteacher before joining parliament, he was elected to parliament in 2008 at the age of 36. and then eventually he got real jolt of popularity in 2012 into his role as prime minister in 2015. >> randi kaye, thank you very much. back to our top story, january 6th, then versus now. the proud boys leader hoping

for a pardon is not alone. more than 1500 people were charged with crimes connected to january 6th. the president- elect told time magazine the pardons will come in the first hour, but he's been vague about a blanket pardon. last month he told nbc news there may be some exceptions. the issue hasn't just split a nation, but a family where a son turned in and later testified against his father who for now remains in prison. donie o'sullivan has that story. >> if trump pardons your dad, what is your biggest fear? >> getting shot in the street, don't know. >> by your father. >> by my father, by someone he knows. >> a bunch of people? >> i don't know. i don't know their intent, so -- want to help me with this? >> sure. >> this is jackson. >> want me to take this end here? >> yes, please. >> he said he's moving out of his rental home and into hiding for his own safety. >> bought a gun because i got so paranoid and moving out because i'm scared. >> do you know how to fire a gun? >> yeah.

i've been shooting it. >> to you have it on you right now? >> yeah, i have to wear it around the house often just to get used to how it feels. >> okay. >> but i'm part of did. >> jackson's dad is guy refus. >> i kept going, go forward, go forward. i couldn't see, bro. >> he's serving a more than seven year sentence for his role in the january 6th capitol attack. he was convicted of five felonies including carrying a firearm on capitol grounds. you reported your dad to the fbi? >> yes. >> that's what got him arrested basically? >> more or less, yeah. >> what effect has that had on your family? >> destroyed it. >> was there a moment where you thought i know my dad has done all this stuff, but i don't want to report him? >> yeah. i still feel horrible, of course. i can't get over it. but i don't regret it. >> when was the last time you spoke to your

dad? >> five months ago, the first time i talked to him. and it was a crying fest for first ten minutes and that was great. and then i brought up the fact that i'm worried about him getting out and he was almost puzzled. like he was confused as to why i thought that. >> are you overreacting? >> no. i get death threats daily, hourly at this point. >> it was our 18-year- old son who turned his dad in to the fbi. my son is a declared democratic socialist. >> jackson's mom nicole has become one of the most prominent people campaigning for the release of people serving time for january 6th. >> christopher alberts. >> nicole left texas and moved to washington, d.c. where she takes part in a nightly vigil held out here outside the city's jail.÷÷you've been coming here for hundreds of nights. >> almost 900. >> why? >> after i saw what happened to my husband, i could not sit on my hands at home anymore.

>> you wish guy didn't come here on january 6th? >> i'm glad he stood up for something. >> every night january 6th prisoners call into the vigil. >> continue holding the line. >> continuing guy reffitt who called in to wish nicole a happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> are you confident that trump will let your husband walk free? >> i feel like trump is a man of his word. >> what is the next step? >> to continue to fight. >> together? >> nicole is sometimes joined in d.c. by her two daughters, jackson's sisters who have been caught in the middle of a divided family. >> we have nothing against jackson, jackson is my brother, i love him. i love him no more than i love my father. i love my father. i love my family. >> from the beginning, the girls and i received hundreds of mailed death threats. i'm not talking about online things. i'm talking about rape to my daughters, death to my

husband, death to me. >> you don't think jackson has to be afraid of his dad? >> no. i think that's been put on the record several times. >> so why is jackson so afraid? >> i just think that it's the same thing where people think this red hat on my head is scary and dangerous. it is that same mentality. jackson comes from a lot of love and there is a lot of love left to be given. >> justice for all. >> i love my mom. of course. i love her. >> do you love your dad? >> of course i love my dad. i love my dad. but i can't -- i can't feel safe around them. i hate having to put myself in this situation to feel some sort of comfort after the election and what is going to happen when my dad gets pardoned, when all these hundreds of people get pardoned and all these thousands of people -- and i was called a traitor and traitors get shot. that's been ringing in my head for years and years and years.

>> from prison, he said jackson has never had anything to worry about from me and he will never have anything to worry about from me ever. your dad is watching this. what is your message to him? >> that i love him. and that i hope he gets better. and i hope i get better too. i hope i grow out of this paranoia right now and i thought what i did was right, i thought what i did to protect him and my family and the people around him and the people he could have hurt. >> donie joins us now from outside of washington, d.c. detention center where convicted rioters are being held. what is going on there tonight, donie? >> yeah, look, these demonstrators behind me here, they have been gathering here for almost 900 nights. a lot of them relatives have family members who are serving either in the d.c. jail here or in prisons across the country. and what has been happening is as you saw in the piece, some prisoners are calling in. there is just a couple of

counterdemonstrators across the street here. but a very large police presence here. look, i think this really underlines, anderson, these are some of the reddest of the red maga folks. and they are really expecting president- elect trump to pardon everybody from the proud boys on down. and, you know, you can see here the dedication they have. many will say that they're misled in their efforts, misguided, but they are not going to stop making all these until -- then president trump pardons everybody. anderson? >> donie, incredible story. incredible to see the family divided like that. thank you very much. remembering former president jimmy carter next with cbs news' lesley stahl. i'll be right back.

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powering five years of savings. powering possibilities. comcast business. right now, georgia is saying good-bye to the 39th president of the united states. its native son and former governor jimmy carter.

an air force plane will carry the casket to washington where he'll lie in state at the capitol rotunda. jimmy carter died last week in his hometown of plains, georgia, the age of 100. he'll be laid to rest there next to his wife of 77 years, rosalynn, who died last year. joining us tonight, my "60 minutes" colleague lesley stahl who covered carter. years later she interviewed him a number of times including in 2010 for "60 minutes" where she asked him about one of his perceived shortcomings. >> they told you had an image of weakness, you write they told you this, a lack of esteem in the public eye, and they just beat up on you. >> i think they were telling me that the public image of me was that i was not a strong leader, that i should not only arouse support from affection,

but also from fear. >> so did you change? did you start to operate from fear? >> maybe a little bit more than i would have. >> it is so fascinating, lesley. he did a lot of things which the american public wasn't used to, he actually reversed himself on "hail to the chief. " what was he like to cover? >> he reversed himself because the public wanted him to be ceremonial, they liked the trappings of the idea of presidential power. he felt that after nixon it was time to dial back on the imperial presidency. the public didn't like that. that's why he had to give up all these things that he was trying to do to reduce the sort of imagery, he didn't like the gimmickry. >> he also didn't like the politicking, the deal-making. in an interview with you

and these recordings he had made, which he did for minutes," he was calling congress people who wanted, you know, okay, i'll support you in this, if you hire this person for this position. he found that like hostage taking i think you referred it as. >> he also thought it was sinful, you know. he was a very religious man and he felt there was something smarmy about making deals. when i saw spielberg's movie on lincoln, and i realized how much of that had gone on in his presidency, i realized that there were things that make a president success that that jimmy carter didn't want to do, didn't respect. and it hurt him. it hurt his image. >> he wasn't part of the washington establishment, he wasn't part of the democratic establishment in georgia when he ran for governor, ran once, lost, and second time got it. was that part of the problem? my understanding is official washington just rejected him and everybody around him. >> he rejected official

washington. really i think it started with him. >> he made notes, recordings, like journals he would actually record them while in office, later publish them. you interviewed him for that. they were brutally honest. >> well, the little clip you were in, that was his cabinet, he invited them to criticize him. said, come on, beat up on me. and they did. they told him he had an image of weakness, that he was not perceived as being strong and that he needed to toughen up to become a more successful president. you know, we say that he was not successful. and yet today as we have a revisionism on jimmy carter coming forth, we realize how much he really did get done. and when you see the list, it is astonishing. >> his domestic policy adviser was on recently orb i was talking to him. a lot of the deregulation which we associate with republicans, the ronald reagan

championed, jimmy carter actually started deregulating the airlines, enabling more people to be able to democratizing air travel in america, the cable industry, interstate trucking as well. >> yeah. well, he -- and he was famous for it at the time. even though later ronald reagan got all the credit for deregulating. someone said that jimmy carter was the first republican president because he did that and so many other things. camp david, he shepherded, if he hadn't put his elbow grease into it. he was the one who got israel and egypt to sign a peace treaty that still is in existence today. he -- he started fema. the list goes on and on what he did. he had -- he had energy policy that was successful. >> he had the longest post presidency, 43 years. when he left office, did you anticipate, did you anticipate the post presidency

that he would have? >> no. nobody did. i don't even think he did. >> that's come to define him in so many people's eyes. >> yes, but what we're seeing now in his death is that he was far more successful in what he got done as president than we thought at the time, that his reputation was not only at the time, but maybe throughout his life until now as we look back and see the list that is quite astonishing. because it is amazing that he had this sense of weakness, he had those hostages in iran for over a quarter of his presidency. and yet he got all these things done. >> and his relationship with rosalynn carter in 77 years, just remarkable. >> it was a really happy marriage. >> the thing i can't believe which i learned talking to somebody from his hometown, the day he died, that his mom actually delivered rosalynn.