city, she wasn't here. and that matters a lot. and she said, i think she told cbs today, caitlyn, if she could do it again, she wouldn't go. so she knows that was the issue here. >> yeah, she was asked because and for those who don't know the reason, this has gotten so much scrutiny as well is, you know, she pledged to not take these kind of international trips when she first took office. and she was asked, looking back, would you have taken that trip overseas? and she kind of started to say, you know, no, i'm going to focus today on. and then she said no. she had a pretty emphatic no. in that moment about whether or not she'd go on this trip. but i guess, you know, say, if you're someone who liked karen bass or donated to her, voted for her, and you're watching this, what is that leadership been like in the days since she's been back from in the last few days? has anything changed the view of that? >> i don't think

dereliction of duty. i think that's a pretty common sentiment around the city. so no matter i have like ktla on in my office here all day long, is during these fires. you see her on camera. she's deferring to all these other officials here in the city. but, you know, once you again lose the public trust, you lose that integrity. people just stop giving you the benefit of the doubt. and i will say also, you mentioned her campaign. i went back and watched some old campaign ads from 2022 when she ran for mayor, literally verbatim. caitlyn in the ads, she says if there is a crisis, i will run to it. she also said in another ad, i'm coming home to l.a. from congress because the city is on fire. so like two ads that she has, you know, invalidated based just on these last few days, there are other officials doing great work. the sheriff robert luna is all over television. the fire chief, the

firefighters, obviously, gavin newsom is all over every screen here. so i just think of all the people in los angeles, she's the one who is the punching bag at the moment. >> yeah, a lot of scrutiny for all of them. peter hamby, thank you for joining us tonight. thank you all so much for joining us here at cnn news night with abby phillip is up next. >> tonight. mr. hegseth grilled on the hill. >> i have read multiple reports of your regularly being drunk at work. >> from the personal, you have admitted that you had sex while you were married to wife two to the policy. i suggest you do a little homework. the big question is donald trump's man to lead american forces qualified for the job. plus, tiktok on tiktok as the ban looms. is elon musk shopping? and when they go low, she stays home. why? michelle obama is breaking tradition and snubbing the inauguration live at the table scott jennings,

ashley allison, kevin o'leary, catherine rampell and juan williams americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do. good evening. i'm abby phillip in new york. let's get right to what america is talking about. a contentious job interview, the first of donald trump's controversial cabinet picks is likely to be confirmed to lead america's military. one key republican senator, joni ernst, now says she is going to support pete hegseth. but the question tonight is, does the man who will run the pentagon lack basic knowledge about the pentagon and what it does? democrats pressed him on several topics, but i want to start the conversation with this. hegseth now says that he supports women in combat roles. despite saying this just two months ago.

>> i'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. it hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated. >> he is walking all of that back now, saying that women in combat roles is fine with him as long as they meet the same standards as men. here's one issue with that. it's that the recruitment, at least in one branch, the army, is being helped by women, and it's actually the men who aren't meeting the standards. a military.com report found 18% a jump in women signing up from the previous year. male recruitment increased by just 8%. and they also note that young men are struggling to meet the army's eligibility requirements, whether it's physical or academic. even the defense department made a point not to change the requirements when they opened up combat roles for women, writing that the standards should be, quote, based on ability, not gender. he was also confronted about this by a senator, senator kirsten gillibrand, in ways direct and

indirect, overt and subtle standards have been changed inside infantry training units, ranger school, infantry battalions to ensure that commanders meet. >> please give me an example. i get you're making these generalized statements quotas to have a certain number of female infantry officers or infantry enlisted, and that disparages those women commanders do not capable of meeting that for the infantry commanders do not have to have a quota for women in the infantry that does not exist, it does not exist. and your statements are creating the impression that there that these exist because they do not. there are not quotas. we want the most lethal force. >> joining us tonight in our fifth seed is juan williams. he has a book out new prize for these eyes the rise of america's second civil rights movement. juan, welcome to the show. today. look, it's a very anticlimactic. he's probably going to be confirmed. he's

going to have the votes. but i think it did raise some questions about what he did know about the military and this obsession with women in the military, that he seemed to have just a couple months ago and suddenly has disappeared. that also raises questions about whether he knows what is the source of the recruitment problem. scott. and according to the army, it's not women. men are the problem. >> well, i think we have a recruitment problem across the board a b. i think what he was obsessed with is just whether or not the military is as ready as it can be, as ready as it should be, and as lethal as it should be. that is an obsession. i would want the defense secretary to have. the key issue here is confirmation. ernst questioned him. he answered it perfectly. he got it exactly right today, and everything he did today beyond this issue helped him towards confirmation. and i think everything the democrats did today and the way they conducted themselves, made it more likely that he'll be confirmed. they conducted themselves in a horrendous fashion. it was very unprofessional the way they handled this hearing today takes this going to make it, largely because these dems have

no idea what they're doing now. >> i think what he said, what he needed to say today. but is it what he really believes is my question? he was under oath because it doesn't mean a lot for some people, but he he literally. so what did change his mind? senator warren asked him, why did you change your position from 32 days ago? and i think the thing that is most troubling about his assertion on standards is that the women in the army right now, or in our military right now, have not met those standards. so by the sheer assertion that we have lowered our standards, which we have not, is an insult to the women who are wearing the uniform now and who have worn the uniform. and i, i have not. i would take offense to that. i take offense to it because they do the ultimate sacrifice. so i think that i don't think he believes what he was saying today. i think he probably will say things. i think he will get confirmed. but when he has to make tough decisions, those clips will play back and people will have questions to answer. the final thing i'll say is it

did show that he had a gap of knowledge, and you don't need to know everything, but you should know some things if you're going to run the let me play. >> let me play what? this exchange with tammy duckworth, where she was trying to press him on some facts about, you know, foreign policy that he probably should know. >> can you name the importance of at least one of the nations in the asean, in asean, and what type of agreement we have with at least one of those nations? and how many nations are in asean? by the way, i couldn't tell you the exact no, you couldn't, because but i know we have allies in south korea and japan and in aukus with australia trying to work on submarines with them. >> mr.. >> hegseth none of those countries are allies across none of those three countries that you mentioned are in asean. i suggest you do a little homework before you prepare for these types of negotiations. >> so, juan, you've been in washington for a long time. i mean, i wonder in the past if a secretary of defense nominee couldn't answer some questions

of that type, would that not be considered a qualification issue? >> yeah, but i think that the way it came across was as a gotcha question. >> it was a gotcha question. right? >> so i mean, i think, you know, for a lot of people watching this that, well, you know, so maybe he didn't know that, but is he qualified. and that's to me the real question is he qualified to manage the largest federal bureaucracy. and i think it's the largest military in the world. and is he given any evidence of background in that kind of management skill? and the answer is no, but it's not what happened today. we've had one round. they're not going to have another round of questioning. i think this is crazy, but they're not having any more questions. and what he did today, as you pointed out at the very start, was sufficient for and i think this is what you were getting at, scott, for the republicans to say, oh, well, everything's fine. you know, forget about the moral issues and but everything's fine and don't pay attention to the management

issues and don't pay attention. how can you not pay attention to tammy duckworth sitting there minus limbs? as a woman who served in the u.s. military with great distinction, and you're saying women aren't qualified, but okay, i'll do it. i'll say it now because i want to be confirmed to me. this is like, you know, expediency. >> i think it's not only about this unexplained flip flop on women serving in the military. it's not only about the fact that he hasn't managed something as large as a burger king. probably, but that he could not answer basic questions, not just gotcha questions like questions like, would you uphold the geneva conventions? would you refuse an unlawful order if the president gave you one which did happen under trump before with with spath? would you ever sick the u.s. military on american citizens? you know, there are many examples of questions that yes, he was very articulate and polished and he's a tv host. that's his main qualification. i know in tv we sometimes get confused.

>> why do you denigrate this man's service? i don't understand 20 years scott decorated scott, ivy league. he's a tv host. that's all he is. not his main qualification. >> is his name. he's a tv like tv host. qualifications. you're denigrating this man certifies you. >> not not every member who served deserves to be in charge of the dod. >> she said his main qualification is that he's a tv host. and i'm sorry. that's just baloney. >> i think that gets him a qualification, is that he's a war fighter, and he's going to be the closest war fighter we've ever had. >> to the enlisted people running the pentagon. he's decorated. >> he's an ivy league guy, and he knows what he's doing. >> to be clear, scott, i hear you say that because i remember pete hegseth said it. i think you should recall that there have been people who have run the pentagon who have been in war, even if they are officers, they have been in war. their service doesn't get to be denigrated either. >> but i think he's i think he's just he's closer to the average enlisted man who has been deployed and deployed and deployed than anybody that's been up for this job, but not

which is maybe why he defended war criminals say that there have not. >> oh, now he's a war criminal. no, he defended them. let me take a shot at this. let me take a shot at this. >> he defended them. >> this guy killed it today. he came across as a human being. i learned that this was the biggest meeting of alcoholics anonymous ever. we had a great job. we learned that every senator drinks. i would ship them some wine to bring down the alcohol content. this was absolutely hilarious at some moments, but he's going to get confirmed and we can move on. i like dust on boots. a guy that went and fought, saw men and women die. and i also learned today that women are in better shape in america than men. how about that? >> because they're accepting. >> because he said it. because everybody corrected him on it. >> because the percentage of those coming in and being actually allocated after being tested physically, more women than men on a percentage basis. there's a lot of obesity in men. my goodness. we've learned a lot about health care. >> but don't you think hegseth should have known that, that they shouldn't serve? i think like, yeah, right.

>> but you're not also trying to run the military. he is. so why would he? obviously he doesn't even know those stats. i'm not denigrating tv hosts. i love being on television. >> you know, i think i think you should say plus, he's a tv host, plus he's a tv host, right? >> you know, he was articulate. the key. you think every tv host should be. he should be running the dod. >> i don't hold on helpful in donald trump's thinking. >> yes, because the point is, donald trump and donald trump's policies on television, which is apparently all that counts at this. but it's not about and this is where i get upset. i've known several people who have run the pentagon. i think back to my friend colin powell. you're going to tell me he wasn't in war 100%. colin powell was out there fighting the vietnam. >> the current. to suggest that this guy austin tice this guy, this is a guy who has his own very macho ideas about what it means to be a warrior. >> i don't think that it's necessarily in keeping with u.s. policy with regard to women or behavior of how we act

as soldiers in combat, which is that we act within rules. and he's his time says, you know what, too many rules. this is about a killing machine. i think that's very upsetting to a lot of people. >> okay, so we can agree you have to be someone of service in the military, and you have to serve on tv, too. you need both qualifications. >> well, actually, actually you don't actually, the only qualification for this we learned today is that you have to be a civilian, a civilian. >> and and we have had to waive that in the past. but he has both. he has civilian service. he has military service. he's highly educated. and, you know, there's not too many people in the world who have managed whatever, 3 million people at a time. >> there's a whole team. there's a whole team that manages the pentagon. >> hold on. okay. i'm glad you made that point, because let's let's play what markwayne mullin said about whether or not pete hegseth actually has to have the skills, actually have to has to have the experience, or were there other people can help him run the pentagon when he gets there? >> so do you believe you're capable of surrounding yourself with capable individuals that

you're going to be able to run those same ideas by and surround yourself with people that are smarter and better equipped and maybe areas that you don't you don't necessarily carry those expertise with. >> senator, the only reason i've had success in life to include my wonderful wife is because of people more capable around me, and having the self-confidence to empower them and say, hey, run with the ball, run with the football, take it down the field. we'll do this together. i don't care who gets the credit. >> so for someone who is obsessed with die, sounds to me like if we had a black or a brown person sitting in that seat and they said, well, you know, i don't really have the requisite knowledge, but i'm just going to empower all the people around me. republicans would have a field day about that, not even about running the military. >> if justice ketanji brown jackson sat in front of the judiciary hearing and said, i'll just surround myself around clerks who know the law and not me, she would never be. and not only would she never be

a supreme court justice, she would have been raked over the coals left, right, up and down. we're talking. this whole hearing was about standards. and i. my question just is, does he have the standards? now, the other thing we haven't talked about yet is you're right. most people have not run something that has 303, 33 million people. you know, most folks run smaller companies, but it's how you run them. and from my understanding is that he did not run them well. he did not run their budgets well. he he spent too much. and his claim is that he wants to bring spending down. but you have to understand some of the basic functions of an audit. you have to understand how to read an audit. you should have participated in an audit before. if you're going to run one for the largest. >> think you can dispute that he was not a good manager of the finances of the nonprofits that he ran. because it's in the numbers. it's in the nine 90s, it's in the tax documents. >> i don't know that. i mean, i see what's been reported, but i also think what's been reported about him has either been public documents terribly, terribly anonymously sourced and maybe exaggerated. look, i understand why everybody, all

democrats, all the letter that he the letter that he wrote saying that they only had $1,000 left, he wrote that letter that was penned by all the all the democrats here carping about are very upset because they don't describe those of us who are journalists, democratic, the democratic party paid republican strategist, the democratic democratic strategist. i don't pretend like i'm not. the democratic party conducted itself today in a terrible fashion. tim kaine and his line of questioning sounded like a sex pervert as he went on and on and on. >> it was terrible. and so all these issues you all are raising, why didn't tim kaine spend eight minutes on that instead of spending eight minutes dumpster diving with his stupid opposition research dump? >> it was atrocious. and the dems killed any chance they had of making a case against this guy. >> no, it was terrible. the numbers are in your favor. so a hearing is not probably going to be determinative. since they only had one round of questions. they'd even do a second round of questioning what tim kaine asked today is, did you cheat on your wife when you made a vow to her?

>> who cares? >> why do you think that has anything to do with running a mandate in the military? >> he might have had thought about it or not. did you cheat on your wife? can you conduct a war? what does it have to? what does it have to do with anything? many people cheat on their wives and husbands. what does that have to do with you? run a military mandate. well, what does that have to do with the job? this candidate is going to pass? >> it would be interesting. >> look, i think look, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. i think if you are 50% of americans are divorced, it started marriage for a promotion in the military. you better believe that stuff like that matters. it does matter. >> and and here's the thing for marriage your marriage counseling, it does matter when you are in the military and you have to stay married. can't get divorced. no, no it didn't. no, no, no, it's not about that. it's a matter of your character integrity, your wife. >> my goodness. >> let me just say they in the military, it's measured as a matter of your integrity and

your ability to command other people and imbue a sense of trust in others. >> that's what you're stretching that one. no, i'm not. >> i'm just telling you. that's that's a civilian position. >> this is a civilian position. i understand. no, it's not, but i just think i'm just telling you that's not made up. >> that's a real thing. >> it's just. >> it's just he's not up for general. he's up for a civilian position. >> i get it, there's a total difference, i get it. but i think tonight on cnn, the republicans don't care about i think there's a huge double the party of bill clinton, the party of bill clinton and doug emhoff. >> don't get to lecture me. >> evangelical issues of morality. and we said, oh, we've got a democrat here who's well known for. and then all the charges emerge. they would absolutely take him apart. scott. >> well, i've learned something here tonight. >> some of my ceos have been married three times. they should go to prison by now. >> i didn't say get divorced, guys, we got to go here. >> everyone. >> what do you think happens to everyone? stick around. >> kevin, give me a second. coming up next, michelle obama appears to be over it by the former first lady is skipping trump's inauguration. plus, we've got some breaking news

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confirmation hearings. follow the facts. follow cnn. >> five days from now, donald trump is going to take the oath of office again, and apparently witnessing it once was just about enough for michelle obama. the former first lady is going to skip monday's inauguration. her office did not say why, but of course there is no love lost between her and donald trump. that snub is coming after she did not attend jimmy carter's funeral, where another spouse made headlines. karen pence noticeably ignored the trumps after they entered the room. michelle obama not going. hi. she's done. >> you know, it's an insult to the office of the presidency. >> doesn't matter who's the president. this is a tradition that's been around for over 100 years. you shouldn't do this. tell that to donald trump. it doesn't matter who donald trump or who isn't. it's the president of the united states. >> he didn't show up. >> i'm saying he didn't show up at all. >> i don't, and he was actually i don't agree with that former first lady. >> you should always show for

the office eight years ago. doesn't matter then you then you should say donald should have shown everybody should show up for funerals and for inaugurations, period. >> i don't really care whether she's there all that much. i mean, she's she can make her travel decisions. i do think this is part of a pattern of these little petty snubs. this is one kamala harris snubs. kamala harris won't invite jd vance's wife and kids over to the naval observatory, where she's moving children into. they've never been in it before, a clear, sort of petty snub. then when she tweeted out the picture of the carter funeral, she clearly cropped out trump out of the picture. i just i think this isn't just she didn't cooperate. >> that was a picture that the carter family released. well, he's behind a pillar. but but yes, he was not in the photo. >> look, i just you can blame it on trump and say, well, he treated biden terribly and i agree. i think biden should have gone to the inaugural or trump should have gone to biden's inaugural as well. i don't care whether she comes or not, but i do think some of this pettiness is beneath. >> can i just ask the people, the people kamala harris of it all? >> let me let me just play, you know, not to explain it. she

can do what she wants. she's a vice president. but here's what jd vance has said about her. >> it's that kamala harris is so asleep at the wheel that she won't even do an investigation into what happened, and she wants to yell at donald trump because he showed up. she can she can go to hell. but while we're not garbage for thinking that kamala harris has done a bad job, i think in a couple days the voters of new hampshire are going to take out the trash in washington, dc, and that person's name is kamala harris. >> okay, michelle obama represents me, and i'm glad that she's not. like, if she doesn't want to go, don't go, i hear. but i just feel like she has gone high. she's gone very high for a very long time. and i have said on this show before, when they go low, we need to match energy. we are in a different era of politics. also, donald trump doesn't want michelle obama at his inauguration, so he doesn't care. like let that be his day. he won. go govern michelle obama, go live your

best life. represent the 92 of us who showed up for kamala harris. and if kamala harris has been more than graceful with presiding over the certification of the election, with showing up. i mean, you laugh, but like, you laugh, but like the last time that happened, remember, the whole capitol was on fire. crack was smeared on the wall. i'm just saying, like she has no functional role. it's like your laugh is ministerial. your laugh is diminishing. sometimes your points because it's. if you just remember four years ago, we just didn't even have any of those things. we didn't have the sitting president come to the inauguration, let alone a first lady from eight years ago. so michelle obama, olivia, and i would just add, i would just quickly throw in here, you know, she's a human being. >> she may be sick. >> and that is what you say that then i don't know. >> and it's not in my business. but she can make a decision. and the second thing to say is i think there are a lot of people that pick up on ashley's point who probably feel like, you know what, i really don't like donald trump. i don't like the way that i've

been spoken about. i don't like the way i've been spoken to the office. i don't like the kind of racial animus that's involved in so many of this stuff. and so maybe she doesn't want to go. her husband, on the other hand, the former president is doing just what you guys suggest and sticking with the formality and the tradition. but i think she has the right. >> hillary should go, not go either. >> i mean, let's okay, look, the spouses are doing what they want. i mean, melania trump didn't go to the white house when the bidens invited trump just this past fall. um, you know, melania trump and donald trump didn't invite the bidens to the white house in the last transition because there was no transition. it's all bad. they just did not have one. >> yeah, nothing good about either side doing this to the other. she went high and she lost. but she should honor the office of the presidency. >> i will say we went high and they lost in 2016 and she did honor and show up. and then donald trump. >> why can't we do so low? she was like, i'm not meeting you. >> and you're talking about six hours of her time. >> i do think we are off the

slippery slope of election denialism. both parties seem to have accepted the outcome here. i it strikes me that we're in a strange place where we may be getting back to normal about the way our politics works, following election, you know, showing up and doing the traditions would be a continuation of that. again, i don't personally care whether she goes or not. i'm sure trump doesn't either, but i think we're in a better place today than we have been after the last several elections, going back to 2000, truthfully. so that is a good thing. >> after 2020. >> exactly. there's going to be a 2016, there's going to be a peaceful transfer of power. >> i think that is a victory. >> hitler, hitler's taking over. you don't go to church on sunday. >> you burn in hell. that's the way i look at this thing. >> look, you got to follow the. >> i've said this once and i'll say it again. the only time that we've had a former president not pass the baton to the person that is succeeding him was when donald trump did it. >> that's the only time it's ever happened so bad. >> i'm just saying that's the only time. so. so when we talk about slippery slopes, donald trump just went all the way off the cliff, okay? he didn't even

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reporting that china is considering selling tiktok to musk. now, remember, just days from now, tiktok is scheduled to be banned here in the united states over security concerns. we happen to have another bidder at the table for tiktok, but i wonder what you make. kevin, of the possibility that they might be considering it. and we have the picture here. you were just down in florida with trump. >> look at that suit that don johnson, miami vice suit. i look spectacular. >> i look spectacular. >> that suit really is something. >> i'm not going to lie. i can't believe how good i look. >> but what did he think of the prospects of you, potentially. and frank mccourt buying tiktok? >> yes. frank and i have put this syndicate together. i've been working on this deal for two years. so is frank, just to clarify, the musk story? yes, that's 40 hours old. within 45 minutes after it broke, both the chinese government and bytedance, the chinese company called it fiction. and so

let's just clear that up. and what we're waiting for on this deal. and trump knows this, and so does biden. we're waiting for the rendering of the justices from the friday hearing, which we were thinking would come today, might come tomorrow. the assumption is they will throw it back to the executive. that's biden. biden will then have to make a decision if there's a viable bid. and the only syndicate bid i know that's viable, that's been given by bankers to bytedance and the chinese government. and every american shareholder is frank and mine. nobody else has a syndicate bid, an actual offer, an actual written offer associated with the order from congress. they have it. it's papered. so biden will have to make a decision. you have a viable bidder. and this bidder has claimed already we do not want to buy the algorithm because we know with certainty we can't use it, because it's the reason congress threw this thing off anyways, so. >> well, the ownership of the algorithm, we don't want to own it. >> we don't want to buy it. we put a $20 billion bid on the table. let's start negotiating. that can give them the 90 days. if biden grants,

he will be the executive right up until midnight on the 19th. this is a crazy situation. it is very frank, has worked very hard with the democrats. i've worked very hard with trump to explain this is a bipartisan deal to keep 6 million american businesses lit up. >> what did trump say? i mean, trump and what role do you think he has? >> he said to me, and i'm just being transparent. tell me why i care about this. and i said to him, because there's 6 million american businesses that are generating $10 billion in revenue and keeping their families alive with this. and you also used it of 170 million young people got you elected. and we should keep this thing lit up because i don't want to see it go away. all i'm trying to get for this company is a 90 day extension that biden can grant it up to midnight on the 19th, and then the next morning at 1205, i'm working for trump on the deal. that's the story. >> what do you think of this? catherine? >> i will say, if you want to destroy tiktok, selling it to elon musk might be the most efficient way to do it, given that he turned twitter, which was a $44 billion company, into a $10 billion company, there are

probably some regulatory issues. yes, there are a number of regulatory issues. and look, i have lots of concerns about large swaths of our population getting their news from platforms like tiktok, not only tiktok, for lots of reasons, independent of ownership. right? i mean, these are the the sort of the natural selection of information on these sites is toward more salacious and less informative, less less tethered to reality. right. that's what a lie travels halfway around the world before the truth laces up its boots. et cetera. having this platform potentially owned by chinese interests, obviously even more concerning, particularly since you don't know how they're going to put their thumbs on the scale, having it owned by elon musk also quite concerning, because you do know how he's going to put his thumb on the scale, given what he's done with twitter. is there anybody else? so so all of that is is quite concerning to me. i don't i haven't looked at your bid, so i'm not endorsing it. but i understand the concerns all around about your lobbying of trump. >> kevin. but is anybody else

just perplexed by where we are in the country that business leaders have to go to donald trump to get his blessing to own something that was in the private domain? i mean, are we there as a country now where this is the order of congress? yeah, i know, no, what i'm talking about is the idea that you want to mar-a-lago presumptively because you wanted to get and we went to biden, too. >> we went to biden, too, i know, and his doj, this is not new, though. >> i mean, if you look at what happened during the first trump administration, there was a reason why, like sprint executives stayed at the trump hotel in dc and other people who wanted his blessing on whether it was mergers or being nicer to saudi arabia. a lot of saudi arabian government officials stayed at trump properties. there was we have a record of this that people stayed at his properties to curry favor. >> the real wild part here is you're going to have musk, zuckerberg, bezos seated right there as if they are

officials of the trump administration, incoming trump administration. and to my mind, a lot of this has to do with the fact that the internet is basically a trash dump. and it's grossly in need of government regulation. what it's done to our children, to our daughters. i think it's sinful. >> i think this is the opposite of what they are going to be. >> this is a this is a product that is as harmful as tobacco to our kids. and yet there is no regulation. and when we think about something like tiktok, obviously the focus on tiktok is the chinese government being able to use information. but when you're looking at facebook and when you're looking at these other platforms, you're looking at how these products are being used to absolutely corrupt spin disinformation, outright propaganda, if not, and of course, pornography and hate speech. and he's going to. and now zuckerberg says, no more checking, no more. we'll have individuals check it. talk about craziness. this is what

apparently he's trying to get trump to buy into, because trump is driving the gravy train. >> i don't think i don't really care so much, honestly, about whether they use, you know, fact check com or a person for the fact checking the issue for me with the zuckerberg thing is that it's a complete distraction from the actual real problem, which is an algorithm that to your point, juan, is making kids suicidal. it's addicting them to being online. it's spreading misinformation. it's fueling genocides. those are those are things that have actually happened. and nobody's talking about that because they're busy just kind of sucking up to the person who facebook and meta here, or i'm talking about facebook in particular, but social media in general, and all of them are going to mar-a-lago for one reason, which is to say, we're on your side. leave us alone. >> yeah. >> look, i came up in the era of social media, it's not going anywhere. and so we have to do some really thoughtful interventions that don't harm

free speech, but also don't do the negative things like increase suicide rate and drug use for youth, young people. we know that that is happening. um, you know, the hate speech is challenging because like, we're the first amendment is what we are here. the thing that i'm interested, i hope this tiktok thing works out because it is a revenue generator. and in some ways not perfectly, but has democratized how people have access to platforms. we do work at my company, watering hole media, where we empower creators who would never have an opportunity to get briefed by members of congress on different pieces of legislation. so if it's done right, it could really create the next level. i hear all the concerns, but in a moment like this, i actually think it could be an opportunity that the best of america comes out and we look to take it to the next stage where it makes us a stronger country. it makes journalism stronger. if that's where people are getting their

news, do we tell them, don't read the news or do we make it as news? >> i'll make this commitment to you right now. frank and i will make tiktok wonderful again. >> so are they. >> are they committed to saying yes to you? i mean, congress passed a law they have to sell it, not say, you're my pick. no bytedance who like the ownership of tiktok, did they will they sell if they they have no incentive to do anything until the justices render their opinion. so if the justices say we're going to, we're going to enforce the law that congress passed. i have read that they have said they'd rather shut down than they might. >> that's a binary decision. >> so here's here's my point. >> and by the way, if that happens, they erase $42 billion worth of shareholder money. >> and if and if the chinese ownership, aka the chinese government, really cut out here, would say i'd rather shut down something this big with this much money flowing through it than let american ownership have it. what? what does that tell you about the algorithm and the purpose of the app? >> what does it tell you? >> about a.i., but also not just, i mean, not just from like a privacy or even an

espionage perspective, but the potential i mean, tiktok has gone from zero to a gazillion. >> it's like 170 million users in such a short space, a billion users. >> but where are they going to go? this is my question. is that like, it's not going to stop those those users from finding another platform folks are organizing on there. it just won't be on. >> by the way, you should know this. >> there are two books right now that are available free on the on the app store, lemon8 and read book that are chinese algorithms. one owned and they are trying to use algorithms to push people over to. but the order is is written very broadly that any executive, including any president, can use the same order to shut those down, too. so we have the defense mechanism in place. a foreign government cannot steal a 13 year old woman or girl's data anymore. it just can't happen. >> the data i actually worry. >> i mean, i'm worried about that. to the brainwashing, to me, i think these are real points and i would. i trust zuckerberg and musk and american and friendly

ownership, you know, friendly to the u.s. government, far more than i trust you shouldn't. >> but but but but does it bother you or are they not loyal americans? i just don't think these are for profit. >> you compare them to the chinese communist party. >> here's my question. trump doesn't seem worried about that very thing that you just talked about. he wants competition. he used to be, but he wasn't. he's not anymore. does that worry you worried about what? trump is not worried about the chinese owning tiktok. he doesn't want it. >> no, no, he didn't say that. well, he said listen, he was. do you think trump's number one agenda items to change the congress order the first day of yair keshet four years ago, trump was pushing banning this app. >> he wants he wants election. >> he wants to have competition. that's what he wants. if it goes into american hands, as we've suggested with our offer, that problem goes away. we're not even going to use the chinese algorithm. we're letting them keep it to infect other countries if they wish, not the united states. that's the whole point. and by the way, when we light up the u.s. under the new american laws, we're going to modi and india and saying, we fixed it,

bring back the 210 million, the swiss, the french, the canadians, the british. they'll all go with our version of it because that won't have spyware in it, and it'll become the world's largest television network. >> before we leave this topic, let me just say i think everybody is getting really misled on this, that this is not about tiktok and chinese. we know the chinese are using this for surveillance and for bad stuff. uh, what we should be talking about is how so many of these social media apps are really damaging to us, and that the congress of the united states, democrat as well as republican, has refused to regulate. >> they're not doing anything. and they let our kids suffer. >> and, you know, you say, oh, well, it's about business and it's about i want to create opportunities for people to be creators. >> i have to remind you of something. >> this is a troubling just said were applied to elvis in 1956 when he went on black and white television. >> we don't even have we don't even have free speech of the time that we need to get into that topic. but, juan,

you're incredibly correct about congress's inaction on that issue. everyone hold on. coming up next, we're going to talk about a shouting match during another culture war dustup in said congress. >> chairman, reclaiming my time. you will not do that. i ordered a carroll. >> i'm not a time in my time. if you want to take it outside. >> cnn this morning with kasie hunt tomorrow at 5:00 eastern. >> tap into etsy for original and affordable home and style pieces like lighting under $150 to brighten your vibe for under $100, put your best look forward with vintage jackets or pick up custom shelving for under 50 to make space without emptying your pockets, and get cozy with linen robes for 75 or less. for affordable home and style finds to help you welcome whatever's next, etsy has it.

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rid of them the old fashioned way. it's a whack a dollar. >> gotcha. catherine. >> so donald trump posted today that he wanted to create an external revenue service, similar to the internal revenue service, the irs to collect tariffs. i would hope that one of his aides would tell him what the c in cbp stands for. it stands for customs. we already have an agency, a 60,000 person agency that does this. um, trump wants to create a new parallel agency. apparently that does the exact same thing, which tells you that doge has its work cut out for it. >> you know, trump likes a good name, so that's why. that's why he's talking about it. juan. >> well, so a new jersey mayor has said that he thinks maybe there should be reversed congestion pricing. you know, in new york now there's congestion pricing for people coming into new york. the mayor said maybe congestion pricing for people trying to get out of new york. so i'm saying we better watch out because canada may have congestion pricing next week for people trying to get out before the trump inauguration. >> and we we have now learned congestion pricing apparently

works here in the city. go ahead ashley. >> on the backdrop of the horrible fires that are happening in l.a., we also are entering award season. and so today, the grammys announced that they were going to continue on with their ceremony on february 2nd. but beyonce was supposed to make a big announcement. we think about a tour, but she pulled it down because she just feels like with everything going on, the last thing you need to be focused on right now is a world tour. so it's it's a bigger question about how and culture. and in these pop culture moments when real crisis is happening in our country, we should be handling it. >> yeah. good point. >> okay. all right. i'm just going to preface this by saying i've only seen the video and i've only read what i've read. i didn't, you know, i wasn't at the game, but this video of the eagles fan berating the packers lady. here's a picture of it on screen and calling her unspeakable names. number one, ryan caldwell is the guy's name. number one. my, i have three takes. this guy deserves all the karma that he has coming from him. the calmness with which he called her, these

terrible names. i mean, it makes me wonder about the rest of the guy's life. number two, why do people feel like being in stadiums and sports arenas right now gives you license to act like a complete and total jerk. and number three, the boyfriend who filmed this kind of a beta move to film it, not to get between your woman and the guy. i'm just saying i was not aware of the boyfriend angle. >> i'm just saying he he and i recognize there's eagles fans all over and maybe he gets pummeled, but i just think you got to get between your woman and the guy. >> maybe you don't start a fight, maybe you do. but he's going to have to. >> they're not dating anymore. >> i think. >> i think he started that actually is probably what most other people would have done. >> but everyone, thank you very much. again, juan's new book is new prize for these eyes the rise of america's second civil rights movement. it's out right now. >> yeah, today was pub day. you know, it's an important book, and i hope people take a second because it really says this. there's a movement going on that's equal to the great first civil rights movement. but people have to realize that these conversations about race

are taking place, and that black lives matter is at the heart of it. >> all right, everyone, go and pick it up at your local bookstore coming up next for us. see what happened when one lawmaker challenged another to take it outside during an argument. >> let's start the bidding at $5 million. thank you sir. >> these people of privilege hoarding the financial advantages for far too long. >> point five at the back. look at them. >> unaware that robinhood gold members now enjoy the vip treatment. the 3% ira match on retirement. contributions 11 million, sir. once they discover their privileges are no longer exclusive, their fragile reality will plunge into disarray. >> an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the

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at fund.com. >> follow the trump confirmation hearings. follow the facts. follow cnn. closed captioning is brought to you by skechers hands free slip ins. >> this tiny home trend. now this is more like it. the same goes for my footwork. so i went hands free with wide fit skechers slip ins. try wide fit skechers slip ins. >> tonight, if you're looking for a lesson in civility, do not look to congress. a shouting match erupted between two lawmakers as the house passed a bill banning transgender students from girls sports, but the issue of trans rights came up at another unrelated hearing, in which republican nancy mace and democrat jasmine crockett squared off and just a heads up, some of the language here is pretty vulgar i find it extremely rich and offensive. >> so we're talking about civil rights coming from a party that can't define what a

woman is and won't give women the right to privacy. you all want men with, chicks with dicks in the bathroom with us. >> i can see that somebody's campaign coffers really are struggling right now. so she's going to keep saying trans, trans, trans so that people will feel threatened and child, listen, i want you to. i am no child. >> do not call me a child. >> i am no child. i won't even start out i'm a grown. which of those emails actually have ceilings, chairman? i am reclaiming my time. >> you will not do that. >> order a child. i am not a child in my time. >> if you want to take it outside, mr. chairman, ladies and gentlemen, your congress at work. >> thank you very much for watching news night. cnn's coverage continues next. >> good evening. we are coming to you tonight from altadena at the corner of west harriet and glen avenue. there is destruction from the eaton fire everywhere you