per month per person are set to expire at the end of the year. did you know that? >> i do. >> we need to move on. >> do you support congress extending these tax credits so that americans can continue to afford health care? >> i you know, congress has to make its own decisions about that. my instructions from president trump. >> you're saying. >> is to. >> make the i'm having a lot of trouble getting the witness to answer yes or no to a yes or no question. well, i've got one more question. i'm. >> you're almost at nine minutes, sir. >> well, i need him to answer yes or no? yes or no? are you. >> going to answer yes or no to a question that's not susceptible to an honest yes or no answer? >> we need to move on. >> i think that the fact that you find it difficult to answer basic questions is deeply troubling for me, as you present yourself as a nominee to to run hhs. thank you so very much,

senator. >> i've been in courts all over the country. and prosecutor. >> chairman, you told me i'm out of time. the witness continues to filibuster even after i said i'm done. >> senator smith. >> mr. chair, thank you. thank you, mr. chair and ranking member and welcome, mr. kennedy. um, so, mr. kennedy, i don't have a question for you on abortion. um, i think that my colleagues on both sides of the aisle have covered this, but i want to say i can respect people who have different views than mine on this issue. but it's hard for me to respect people who won't give a straight answer to what they think on this issue in particular. mr. chair, i just want to note that i understand that anti-choice advocates have said that in these hearings, they were looking to hear mr. kennedy provide some reassurance that he is on their side. and i'm not hearing that. and i think most americans are looking for some hint that the decisions that people make about abortion should be personal and private, and they should be free to make those decisions without

government interference. and i'm not hearing that either. um, to make it worse, the answers that you have given tell me that the trump administration is more than willing to restrict or even ban medication abortion without a single act of congress. and even in states where abortion is legal. and what is clear to me is that you and president trump are dangerous to women's access to mifepristone. so having said that, i want to move to a different topic. mr. kennedy, i appreciate senator cornyn's questions about mental and behavioral health, something that i care a lot about. i know that you and your family have had personal experience with mental health challenges, as have i, and i agree that the mental health crisis in this country is a is a crisis. so let me ask you in an interview in 2023 and again in 2024, you blamed school shootings on antidepressants. you said and this is a quote, there is no time in american history or human history that kids were going to shoot schools and

shooting their classmates. it really started happening coterminous with the introduction of these drugs, with prozac and with other drugs. so do you believe, as you've said, that antidepressants cause school shootings? this is should be a simple question. >> i don't think anybody can answer that question. and i didn't answer that question. i said. >> it. so your answer is. >> i said it should be studied along with other potential culprits. >> so they may. >> cause social media like, yeah, but i don't know. i would never make because there's no science on that. senator. >> there is senator. i mean, excuse me, there is. uh, mr. kennedy. >> thank you for the promotion. >> the science shows that there is no link between school shootings and antidepressants. and in fact, most school shooters were not even treated with antidepressants. and of those that were, there was no evidence of association. you know. >> i don't think. my question is, senator, because of hipaa rules, nobody knows. >> well, that is mr. kennedy. do you think that people who take

antidepressants are dangerous? >> i think i listen, i'm not going into hhs if i'm privileged to be confirmed with any. >> so you can't. >> say to people to impose any preconceived ideas that i may have, i just want to have good science. >> so you're not saying that they aren't dangerous, which means that they could be dangerous. let me ask you this. >> that's not true. >> you've described americans who take mental health medications as addicts who need to be sent to wellness farms to recover. is that what you believe? >> of course. i didn't say that anybody should be compelled to do anything. >> no, but you said they should be sent. >> there. i said they should be available to them. i didn't say they should be sent. >> you said that. >> kicking and. >> screaming antidepressants are like addicts that i can provide, that. >> they should have the availability. listen, i know people, including members of my family, who've had a much worse time getting off of ssris than they did, than people have getting off heroin. it's the

withdrawal period is, i mean, and and it's. written on the label. >> i have some experience. >> well. >> documented myself. mr. kennedy. i this is personal for me. when i was a young woman and i was struggling with depression, thankfully i had the resources to help me get through it, including a new generation of ssri uptake inhibitor inhibitors, which help to clear my mind, get me back on track to being a mom and a wife and a productive, happy person. and i'm really grateful for that therapy. so i have some experience with this, and i think that everyone should have access to that care. and your job as secretary is to expand access to care, not to spread lies and misinformation. and you know, the things that you say, mr. kennedy, they live on, they have impact. and, you know, we're having this conversation at the same moment that my republican colleagues are looking to try to figure out how to save money any way they can. and so they want to cut medicaid. let's just think about this for a minute, because

you're going to be should you be confirmed, you would be responsible for cms, which provides mental and behavioral health care to millions of americans, close to 40% of folks on medicaid have a behavioral health condition. and you would be part of this administration that would be looking to cut medicaid. so, mr. kennedy, these statements that you've made linking antidepressants to school shootings, they reinforce the stigma that people who experience mental health every day face every single day. and i'm very concerned that this is another example of your record of sharing false and misleading information that actually really hurts people. >> senator, you're. >> mischaracterizing my statements. >> i am. only putting into the record what you have said. >> you're mischaracterizing my statements, and i i'm happy that you had a good experience on ssris. many americans have a very good experience on it. others have.

>> not be. >> an issue between them and their physicians and not. >> for the future. >> head of hhs to be putting out. misinformation about the dangers of of ssris and other anti-depression medication, spreading the stigma and the fear that we're actually trying to overcome. >> do you think physicians, when they make that prescription, ought to have access to good science? >> of course. >> they do. and that's. >> all i believe, too. and you and i are in agreement. >> senator. >> and to your point that you made when you made these statements, it was not based on good science. i don't know. >> what it was. i was saying. >> the science needed to be done. i was saying, these are potential culprits that were coterminous, and i named other things. i said video games. i said social media. i said ssris. ssris have a black box warning, warning of suicidal. >> mr.. >> chair. >> mr. chair, i will submit to the chair the information that i have about what mr. kennedy has said linking antidepressants to school shootings. thank you. >> senator young.

>> thank you, mr. chairman. good to see you, mr. kennedy. um, to follow up on that spirited. exchange, um, in talking with you and reading about your vision for the department, you said one of your goals is to return public health agencies to the gold standard of scientific review. you've alluded to the gold standard a number of times today. so i'm going to give you an opportunity uninterrupted, but hopefully not too extensive, to tell me and others what you mean by this gold standard. >> i think the gold standard um, means real scientific research with replication of studies, which very rarely happens. now at nih, we should be giving at least 20% of the nih budgets to replication. we should have to make sure that all the science is published with the raw data. we should make sure that the peer reviews are also published. we and you know, and i'll give

you a quick example. 20 years ago, hhs, nih scientists did a study on amyloid on alzheimer's, which they said it was caused by amyloid plaque. after that, nih shut down studies of any other hypothesis. 20 years later, we now know that those studies were fraudulent. nih has funded 800 studies on a fraudulent hypothesis, and we've lost 20 years in figuring out how to a cure for alzheimer's. and that's just one example. i could give you hundreds. we need to end that. we need to end the old boys system. we need to have replicable science and be completely transparent about raw data. >> thank you sir. in recent years, particularly during the covid pandemic, there's been a lot of skepticism about our public health institutions. some of this, i would say is warranted, but it's now created a pervasive lack of trust from

the public that these institutions are acting in bad faith or failing to act in objective, with objective criteria, failing, in short, to to act in the best interests of the public. if confirmed. mr. kenney, how will you work to regain the public's trust? i suspect it will take some time in these important public health institutions. >> i'm through radical transparency. i'm going to make these the reason people don't trust the the public health agencies is because they haven't been trustworthy. and you gave the example of covid at the beginning of covid, everybody was rushing to get that vaccine. we had over 90% vaccination uptake. >> yes, sir. >> cdc's most recent recommendation is that americans take the eighth. uh booster. only 23% of of americans are

complying. that means 77% of americans no longer trust the cdc. and that is the problem. >> yes, sir. in the absence of full information, um, might it to to. i think i agree with you, but i want your response. might it make sense to share that absence of full information with the american people, that uncertainty? i think one of the things by observation and experience that i saw during the pandemic was we had certain prominent doctors appear on television and indicate, no, you absolutely must not wear a mask. two weeks later, it's yes, you must wear a mask. but they were certain and they even demonized people for not following the latest science, knowing there's a high level of uncertainty in that science. what would a measure of humility and, as you say, radical transparency demonstrates humility, help rebuild trust over a period of years? >> absolutely. we need to tell americans what we don't know. we need to make sure it studies

that reach a null hypothesis are also published. and that doesn't happen. >> sir. um, i think you are right about why health care costs are so high in the first place. the answer is indeed chronic disease. 90% of our health care spending goes towards managing it. as you say in your open statement, it's not in the main because of waste, fraud and abuse. although we know some exist. it's not in the main because we have greedy executives at innovative world class companies. it's not in the main because we haven't yet adopted an unsustainable medicare for all scheme. it's because of this. so i'm encouraged that you you intend to make that a point of of emphasis as it pertains to your future leadership. i will say with respect to covid, it's not over for a lot of americans. it's not over. i know the

mission accomplished banner was convenient for the last administration, but as we continue to navigate the ongoing impacts of the covid pandemic, we have many individuals here in the united states and around the world who are suffering from long term health effects that significantly impact their quality of life, work, and daily activities. and they've been largely ignored. funding for long covid research was appropriated by congress in december of 2020, followed by additional funding directed by the biden administration in february 2020 for patient groups and industry publications have criticized the slow pace of clinical trial design and enrollment. if confirmed, will you collaborate with health care providers, researchers and affected communities to better understand and mitigate long covid's impact? yes or no? >> please? >> absolutely, senator, there's 60 million americans. >> will you commit to prioritizing long covid research and integrate this work in a broader health care policies?

yes or no? >> please. yes. >> patient groups, experts and industry publications have raised concerns around existing long covid funding being spent on observational research. in particular, criticism was directed towards recovery funding being used to duplicate existing findings instead of funding trials for potential treatments or diagnostics. if confirmed. mr. kennedy, will you work with congress so that going forward, long covid funding will be directed primarily towards trial or novel research directions and not replicating existing observational research? yes or no? >> absolutely. senator, with enthusiasm. >> thank you so much. >> mr.. long question. >> if confirmed, how will you create a balance between your personal priorities of chronic disease and healthy lifestyle and the ongoing critical work of the department in areas that are

focused on incentivizing and advancing innovation in modern medicine and pharmaceutical discovery? >> i think innovation is going to be the key to public health, and we have a unique opportunity now in history because of a.i., because of telemedicine, and because of the quality of people that are now coming to hhs to actually save public health. but it's all going to rely on innovation. and i don't want to do anything that inhibits or impairs the pace of innovation. >> that's encouraging from approving a.i. algorithms to determining medicare coverage, we need we certainly need more innovation, and we need good people in the department to assist with that effort. so i'll follow up with a question about how you're going to attract and retain good people. thank you. chairman. >> sorry to shut you down a little faster than i did the others. senator, we are up against a vote deadline here and we have one more senator who gets his full time. i hope

you'll keep it as close to five minutes as you can. senator welch. and then i've promised senator wyden. um. what, five more minutes to be divided? >> one minute with my colleagues getting one. >> and then if we can do that, we can get over to vote before they call the vote on the floor. >> thank you very much. thank you, mr. kennedy. and as you know, i'm a big have great reverence for your family from massachusetts. uh, when i got when i got out of college, i was in the first class of robert kennedy fellows. the memorial created by your family to honor the service of your father and the community organizing. and, uh, the in the west side of chicago. uh, and i certainly admire your energy in your effort here and desire to serve. you know, there's a couple of things that are really important here. uh, this is not just about a debate on vaccines. it's a

debate about, uh, qualifications experience and priorities as to the person that will head health and human services. and it's not just about what your answers are today or what the questions are. it obviously has a lot to do with your whole record and your whole history. uh, you know, your sister in her letter or. pardon me, your cousin in her letter said, you've always been charismatic, able to attract others through the strength of your personality, willingness to take risk and break rules. uh, that's, i guess, an attribute. but it can be a danger. the question i fundamentally have is whether, uh, your willingness to disrupt and maybe break rules is going to be dangerous and destructive uh, the character questions we didn't go into here, but there's some sketchy things. you've acknowledged your history with heroin. you've gotten over that. but there's incidents that do, i think,

concern the question of whether the stability is there to be in charge of this major organization. and that's compounded by my concern that you don't have any experience managing a large organization. you don't have any experience in government. so those are things that have to be taken into account. but the issue for me is also priorities. a lot of your engagement in health has been on vaccines. big important issue. you actually disagreed, as i understand it with president trump, about operation warp speed. i think president trump deserves a lot of credit for operation warp speed. he knew we had to get a vaccine. and these other issues about a mask and whether you should wear it, whether when you got your groceries, the bag had to be left outside. remember that in the very beginning. those are incidental to the core question that the president believed we had to have a vaccine. and you contested that. that worries me. that really deeply worries me.

the other questions senator cassidy asked you some questions about our health care system. i happen to believe that our health care system is profoundly broken. and it's not just about the chronic illnesses that's about our diet, that's about our exercise. but we are getting premium increases in vermont of 20% a year, 25% a year, and it's busting the bank for taxpayers. it's busting the bank for our wonderful vermont employers who care about having health insurance that they can provide to their employees. senator cassidy asked you a couple of questions about how you would reform medicaid, and i didn't hear an answer. you mentioned that you thought medicare advantage was good. you have a good plan? no, no. focus on what an incredible rip off was reported in the wall street journal by unitedhealthcare, which was marketing medicare advantage and then paying doctors and nurses where they

had assignments essentially to over. over. it. diagnose illnesses that didn't exist. so they made hundred. they made billions and billions of dollars. and i've seen nothing coming out of the trump administration, and i've seen nothing coming out of your advocacy that is going after what is a rampant abuse by the insurance companies and overcharging people and not doing the job. and by the way, the united health care people, when they did that, they overdiagnosed when the person really got sick, they dumped them, they dumped them, go to the nursing home on your own. that's a broken health care system we spend the most and get the least. and i think there should be collective anger about this on both sides, because all of our people are dependent on that health care system, and you're going to be working for a president who's on a lawless rampage right now. okay? he has

done something reckless with the pardons to these cop beaters. i'm appalled by that. but that's just reckless. that's not illegal. he's impounded money. so right now, the medicaid website went down he's impounded money. so the community health centers that senator warner was talking about are up in the air as to what they can do. do you believe that a president can impound money that has been appropriated by congress? >> senator, i let me answer the question about medicare first. i have never defended that program or the rapacious behavior by insurance companies or the pbms. i understand that's a huge problem. >> and all right. there's i don't have time. >> i just. >> went over to vote. so we can. >> do this. but you've asked me five questions. you got to give me a chance to answer one of them. >> please be brief.

>> yeah, i, i've, i brought in if i get confirmed, i've already appointed a general counsel. the first time in history is a former prosecutor who prosecuted the biggest medicare fraud in the case in the state of west virginia. i brought in a prosecutor for that job instead of a bureaucrat. precisely to address the important issues that you raise here. the only reason i didn't talk about these before is because i wasn't asked about them. what about i agree with you 100%. >> what about impounding a president, impounding money, among other things, goes to health care. >> and you're saying that that's illegal? >> that's correct. >> well, my job is to uphold the constitution. i'm going to take an oath to uphold the constitution, and i will administer the law and uphold the constitution thank you. >> yield back. >> mr. chairman. i believe under what we've discussed, i control five minutes. i'm going to take

one and give one to each of my four colleagues that remain. >> all right. and i would just say we really this vote, they're going to call it in about eight minutes. thank you. so we have very little time. >> two, two hours ago, colleagues, i asked mr. kennedy to reconcile his many anti-vaccine statements with his handful of pro-vaccine statements. instead, he gave us a word salad and ducked the issue. the same was true, mr. kennedy, with respect to measles, where you wrote a book playing down the threat of measles, even though american families are very concerned about it. and apparently families are still mourning in samoa. and my last point would be that mr. kennedy said today really wasn't about him. and i just want to tell him it is all about you, because i find your presentation to be both, to be

both untrustworthy and unprepared, because my colleagues have been seeing back and forth between medicare and medicaid. and it's not clear which program you're using when. so i want colleagues to know there is a lot more information to learn about mr. kennedy. before we vote. i'm going to urge that to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to not make decisions on the basis of this session. i thank you for the additional time. and i guess my next minute is senator whitehouse, senator warren, and senator smith. >> and again, one minute each, please. >> there's there's. >> been a lot of conversation about long late term abortions here. and i just want to make clear what rhode island ob gyn doctors describe as what is almost always happening when a late term abortion is needed. it is a childbirth gone wrong. the family has painted the room. it has bought the crib, maybe even

decided on the baby's name and has gone to the hospital to welcome the new baby into their family. and what is supposed to be a happy event. and then things went wrong. then the alarm started pinging, the lights started flashing, the medical professionals started rushing in and the question became who lives and who dies? the mom's life is often at risk and she may have other children. she needs to care for the baby's life, may be at risk, and one or both may die in that. environment. the doctors and the family own that decision. government has no place in that room at that point, and i think

we need to understand when this late term abortion gets bandied about, what you're dealing with is a tragedy that is happening to a family who wanted that child and have suddenly been confronted with a moment in which they have to make what is probably going to be the worst decision of their lives, and to try to shove the state legislature into that room is really offensive, really morally wrong. and i just want to make very clear what rhode island ob gyns tell me is the situation when these procedures have to be deployed. >> senator warren. >> thank you, mr. chairman. so, mr. kennedy, i wanted to ask about your role in the 2019 measles outbreak in samoa in july 2018. two children died immediately after receiving a measles vaccine that nurses had

mistakenly mixed with a muscle relaxant that nurses get charged with manslaughter. but vaccination rates go down. i asked you about this in my office. you told me flatly that your visit to samoa had nothing to do with vaccinations. we now know that's not true. i have the documentation. you met with the prime minister. you talked about vaccinations. you met with an anti-vaccine influencer who described the meeting as, quote, profoundly monumental for this movement. so what happens? vaccinations go down. there's a measles outbreak and children start dying. but you double down. you didn't give up. just four days after the prime minister declared a state of emergency, 16 people already dead. you sent a letter to him promoting the idea that the children had died not from measles, but from, quote, defective vaccine. you launched the idea that a measles vaccine

caused these deaths. you are a very influential man. in fact, you are called the leader of the disinformation dozen. multiple. by unicef and w.h.o., the world health organization investigated this. they say the claims are false. it is not biologically possible. what you claimed. and yet, ultimately, more than 70 people died because they didn't get vaccines. so my question is, do you accept even a scintilla, just even a sliver of responsibility for the drop in vaccinations and the subsequent deaths of more than 70 people? anything you do differently? >> i know absolutely not. after the there were two incidents in which children died in 2015 and again in 28, 2015, it was from the measles vaccine. that's what the new zealand general

hospital. found. the government of samoa banned the measles vaccine after the 2018. i arrived in july of the next year after the band had been in place for a year. mr. chair, the measles. >> understanding that you wanted to hold us to a minute and that i don't get to present all the facts and documentation i've got, how about if we just decide to make entries for the record on exactly what the record shows about mr. kennedy's participation? and i think he's answered the yes or no question. he takes no response. >> senator warren, we will do that. and mr. kennedy, and to all the senators, every senator knows that following this hearing, they will be able to ask you questions off the record, and you will be able to put answers back onto the record. so please give that answer. i apologize that we're shutting you off for giving a full response right now. senator smith, and we are way over time. >> thank you, mr. chair. so, mr. kennedy, you have said that you

want to give infectious diseases a break for about eight years. you spoke about this with senator cantwell. my question to you has to do with avian flu. over 100 million birds called the disease has spread to dairy cows, and there are now 67 confirmed human cases and one death. so, mr. kennedy, do you intend to give research on bird flu a break? >> no. i intend to devote the appropriate resources to preventing pandemics. that's a central part of my job. >> what do you think is causing the avian influenza? >> i think the h5n1 virus is. >> so that's good to hear, because in a recent book, i will submit this for the record, because we don't have that much time. mr. kennedy has questioned the scientific basis for germs causing disease and the power of vaccines and antibiotics. >> i've never questioned that, senator. >> well, i will submit that for the record. >> thank you, senator warnock. one minute. >> i like the way you said that to the baptist preacher. thank you so much, mr. kennedy. based on our conversations, it's my understanding that you support work requirements in medicaid in

2020. trump, president trump approved a proposal from georgia state leaders requiring georgians to jump through a number of onerous bureaucratic hoops and fill out even more paperwork to verify work and get access to health care. i ask this as someone who represents a state that has not expanded medicaid. the federal government, because of this waiver, spent $70 million on georgia's medicaid waiver. uh, 82% of that went to administrative costs. the point that i'm making is that the folks that they're insisting need to work, 90% of those folks are working. they are they are caregivers or they have a disability. let me give you one example. a woman i think of all the time, her name is heather. she's a traveling nurse from dalton, georgia, who falls into the medicaid coverage gap. heather experienced a series of small strokes, leaving her unable to work full time. she's dedicated her life to caring for

patients, but now she can't afford her own medical care out of pocket costs because she doesn't make enough to qualify for tax credits to buy private insurance. what does heather need? does she need work requirements or does she need access to health care so she can finally get healthy and get back to work? >> that the individual that you described would need health care and not a work requirement? >> thank you, thank you, thank you. >> thank you. and we are done with the questioning. now, mr. kennedy, i apologize to you, to the audience and to all of my colleagues to have to rush it here at the end. but we have a vote on the senate floor that they're going to close in about three minutes. i want to thank you for appearing before this committee. you have been accessible to the members and staff on both sides of the aisle of the finance committee. throughout a rigorous process, and i want the whole world to know that you spent hours on, in meetings, answering questions

outside of this hearing and providing documents and responses on issue after issue after issue. you've gone through the most thorough vetting process that any committee in this congress puts anybody through. and i think that you have come through well and deserved to be confirmed. uh, i would like to remind my colleagues, colleagues that the deadline for submitting any questions, for the record, is 5 p.m. today, 5 p.m. today. and, mr. kennedy, we ask that you respond to those questions as quickly as you possibly can. with that, i'm going to leave you in this room and run over to vote. this hearing will be adjourned. i still encourage the audience to be polite and respectful, no matter what side of the issues you may be on. and mr. kennedy, i look forward to working with you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> we're adjourned. >> we have been watching what has at times been a testy

confirmation hearing for rfk jr.. as he seeks confirmation as donald trump's secretary of health and human services, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. i'm boris sanchez alongside jessica dean here in washington. and we're actually following two breaking stories this hour. moments ago, the white house announced it has rescinded the federal aid freeze, a freeze that sparked chaos and uncertainty for key important programs that impact millions and millions of americans. we have more on that in a moment. but first, back to capitol hill. robert f. kennedy jr.. wrapping up hours of questioning from senators in his bid to be hhs secretary. >> kennedy is a highly controversial pick who has a long history of pushing false statements about vaccines. and today, he tried to downplay his vaccine skepticism before lawmakers. >> news reports have claimed that i am anti vaccine or any industry. i am neither. i am pro

safety. >> we'll have. >> order. >> please proceed, mr. kennedy. >> i am pro safety. i worked for years to raise awareness about the mercury and toxic chemicals in fish. and nobody called me any fish. and i believe that. my that vaccines play a critical role in health care. >> all right. >> so while kennedy was speaking, you heard the protesters there in the background. let's go now to cnn's lauren fox, who is live on the hill. lauren's been monitoring this hearing all morning and well into the afternoon. lauren, just key takeaways for a hearing that spanned several hours. >> yeah, i mean, this was really an opportunity for rfk jr. to establish a new record on what he has said in the past about

vaccine, really trying to downplay past commentary that he has made about vaccines, past commentary that he has made about vaccines being linked to things like autism, which is obviously scientifically not true, but it's also an opportunity for democrats to point out repeatedly that rfk is in a very different position than many republicans on a very key issue, and that is the issue of abortion. you had heard repeatedly democrats pointing out his past commentary on that issue, his past, his past issues with that very important question of whether or not he was supportive of abortion or not. he just repeated over and over again that donald trump is the president, that he will follow donald trump when it comes to that issue. but that has been something that in private meetings, jessica has come up again and again with conservatives. you know, maggie hassan really drilled down on that issue and repeatedly asked him, you know, is it just politically convenient in this moment for you to be making

these comments, despite what you have said for the last several years on this issue? so that was obviously a really interesting moment. once again, though, republicans really taking it pretty easy on rfk jr.. i do want to highlight one exchange that i thought was so notable, which was a very intense exchange between him and senator bill cassidy over really weedy topic of medicaid and what. reforms did cassidy believe that rfk jr.. might want to see to that program. and it became very clear through the course of that questioning that rfk jr.. wasn't always aware of what medicaid was, and especially what it was doing. and he seemed to be confused at points between medicare and medicaid. i thought that that was a really interesting moment, in part because cassidy is a swing vote here. it's not clear whether or not cassidy is going to support him. he's also going to be leading the hearing tomorrow before the health committee, when rfk jr.. will go before that committee. so it's a really

interesting note, given the fact that we don't know how cassidy is going to vote. and after the hearing, cassidy came out of the hearing room and he would not comment to reporters on what he thought of the performance today. so i just think that that's a really interesting note because, again, republicans have a majority in the senate. they can get this nomination through without a single democratic vote, but they only have an ability to lose a handful of republicans. and we saw last week just what a narrow majority that looks like when it came to the pete hegseth vote. again, they can only lose three republicans. if they lose four, then this nomination does not advance. so i just thought that was a really interesting moment. jessica, to point out. >> all right. >> perhaps it gives a glimpse of of what may come when senator cassidy casts his ballot. lauren fox, thank you so much. from capitol hill. let's discuss further now with our experts. cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta, cnn political analyst and washington bureau chief for the boston globe, jackie kucinich and cnn senior political analyst mark preston.

sanjay, first to you. remind us of the scope of the position that kennedy is trying to earn here, and also how his previous comments on vaccines may have impacted the rates of people that actually go and get them. >> yeah, well, it's a huge job. i mean, essentially he's ceo of of what could be described as the largest health enterprise in the world, health, medical, scientific enterprises. almost a $2 trillion budget, if you count discretionary spending. 80,000 employees. huge decisions and you get a glimpse of it. i mean, he talked about everything from medicare advantage to abortion to agricultural policy to covid. one question only, by the way, about a potential pandemic in h5n1. that came 3.5 hours into these these hearings. so that was that was interesting given the importance of that. i think, you know, measuring the impact of misinformation is it's a challenging thing, obviously, because these aren't yes or no questions. but if you take vaccines specifically and just say, how likely are parents to

vaccinate their kids now versus just a few years ago, for example, in 2021, it was around 90% of people said, absolutely, we'd vaccinate our kids. now it's closer to 82%, which may not seem like a huge drop, except that when you start to drop even small percentage points, you start to lose what is known as herd immunity. so all of a sudden, not just those kids, but the entire community is at larger risk. so, you know, you sort of see examples of that with vaccines specifically. but i think with a lot of the issues that he brought up today. >> it is it is really fascinating. and sanjay, another another issue, of course, that they touched on was abortion. and lauren walked us through kind of the politics of it. but but the but the, the actual medicine behind, for example, mifepristone and what he thinks about that. >> so this is interesting. and i think it's metaphorical for a lot of things that came up with him today, because i think what you often get and the context is, hey, look, we need to study this more. i think one of the senators held up 40 studies and

said, hey, it's been studied, and it's the same sort of thing that you hear about these other vaccines. he says, well, we just need full transparency, radical transparency. there's these gigantic studies, for example, with vaccines and autism. another example that show that there is no link. hundreds of thousands of kids followed over years to sort of make that clear. and i think the same thing with mifepristone, there have been all these studies showing just how safe it is, how effective it is. up to ten weeks after pregnancy. so we know these questions. the reason that this, this, this constant refrain comes up that we're just asking the questions. we just need to see the science is to sort of throw a little bit of cold water on some of these things. and i think that's what you saw today as well. >> sanjay, what would be some of your questions for rfk jr.? >> i mean, you know, it's interesting. i think the vaccines and autism thing is such an interesting thing. it's a specific issue, but i think it represents so much about how he

thinks about things. he says that he said that he had his own kids vaccinated. i think one of the questions that comes up is, would he do it again today? because he subsequently said he regretted having his kids vaccinated? i think it's an important question to sort of figure out where he really lands on these things and how it's going to affect policy. i'll tell you what, i was surprised by the the make america wealthy again, sort of part of this that that's a widely supported thing. i mean, everyone sort of agrees with that. we spend nearly $5 trillion on health care. we have terrible health outcomes. our food is terrible in this country. we know all that. it's part of the reason i went into medical journalism was to try and report on some of these issues. so what are you going to do about it? what he basically said is, hey, i don't care what people eat as long as they know what they're eating. that's not a policy. people already know what they're eating, and we still have terrible food in this country. so, you know, if you're going to have a job like the one that i just described, and i think he may be able to do something about this, i really do. he may be the guy in some ways that could disrupt a lot of that. but

how what are the plans here? and i think even though he was asked over and over again, we did not hear the specifics that i thought he might talk about today. >> and in terms of just baseline, i hear you on all of that. because, sanjay, what is striking is that's where he certainly does get a lot of a lot more support is that people, especially parents, are afraid of what they're feeding their kids. so while you while we didn't hear a policy, what can be done? i mean, to to help with that. >> really unhealthy food is really cheap. yeah, that's that's the basic problem here, is that when you talk about cutting funding and things like that, you're really, really penalizing people who don't have that much money to begin with. the reason they're buying unhealthy food is because you can buy a lot of calories for cheap in this country. that's it. they've they've tried to talk about processed foods. what we find in this country often is that when foods come out, like with certain ingredients missing, that ingredients that aren't found in european foods, americans don't buy it. they don't buy those foods. which is why the market actually starts

to divert back to these really wildly unhealthy foods. it's a problem. it's a huge problem. it's been a problem for decades. but again, it gets back to this point of what are you going to do about it? in some ways, blaming the consumer has not really been effective. what are the policy points you're going to do to actually make healthy food less expensive? right now, you know, it costs more to buy a simple apple than it does a caramelized apple. >> that can rot right pretty quickly. yeah, yeah, yeah. >> so, you know, i mean, these are these are real issues. and i think again, has a lot of support. but what are you going to do about it. how are you going to disrupt all that. >> dr. sanjay gupta always great to have your expertise and analysis. thanks so much. >> you got it. >> thank you. so on to our other breaking news. cnn has learned that the trump white house has rescinded its freeze on federal aid. it comes after widespread confusion and conflicting messages on who would have been affected. let's get right to cnn's jeff zeleny. jeff, what are you. >> hearing? >> boris, this is a dramatic and major reversal here at the white house, really encapsulating what

has been a very confusing 40 hours or so. as you said, the white house, we are learning now is ordering that this freeze on all programs be rescinded. we got word of this in yet another memorandum not announced by the white house press secretary or any official, but simply in a one page document that was sent across the government. it says this if you it says memorandum m25 13. that was the memorandum signed monday night is rescinded. if you have any questions about implementing the president's executive orders, please contact your agency general counsel. that is it. but what we do know is the white house was facing considerable backlash about the question and the the the impact that the freezing of these programs was having across the country. i'm told that they were hearing from a variety of republican lawmakers as well. a they were caught off guard by this on monday night, not given a heads up. and b the white house yesterday tried to explain it as a media fabrication, that there

was a controversy about this. the controversy was very real in the lawmakers offices. the lawmakers that we've been speaking with were saying that they were just hearing an earful from their constituents. much concern over grant funding, head start meals, et cetera.. yesterday at the white house briefing, the press secretary, karoline leavitt, said individuals would not be affected. perhaps that was so, but there was so much confusion about this. and of course, last night a judge stepped in and temporarily blocked this, putting it on hold until monday. but then today the white house comes in and says we're rescinding all of this. so this is definitely going to be something to unwind and figure out what happened. but there's no question this is the biggest speed bump, if you will, in the first nine days of the trump administration. and we're getting some reaction. republican senator susan collins of maine is praising the white house's decision here. she said that, you know, every administration has the ability to review programs, which was ostensibly the reason for the

trump freeze in the first place. but she called it overreaching. and she said it created unnecessary confusion and consternation. so this now is essentially rescinded. we do not know if they will try and streamline this order a little bit to review these programs, but certainly a major reversal here at the white house. this is coming just shortly before the president will be signing his first law into office, the laken riley act. we will see if he talks about it at that point. but again, no explanation from the white house aside from that one sentence memo from the office of management and budget. but this controversy we've been talking about for the last two days suddenly has been rescinded and things are back to normal. >> that's right. all right. now, a lot of questions around it. as you said, we will have to unwind it. jeff zeleny there at the white house. thank you so much. we've got jackie kucinich here and mark preston. jackie, i am struck by the fact that that this the the rescinding of this order came much like the

original one did, which was by surprise. right. and i think i mean, i think you heard. >> during that hearing, maybe some members didn't quite know that this had happened yet. but listen, as much as the white house tried to say it's all in the letter, look at the letter. the letter tells you everything. it didn't. and i can tell you why. members of congress were telling us they're getting calls incoming from constituents and not being able to explain to them what's open, what's closed. i mean, there were questions about meals on wheels head start, like jeff said. i mean, really, it ran the gamut. and it it the fact that they had to rescind it because they couldn't point to which exact programs would not be implicated, really tells you exactly why this happened. because it was it was it wasn't going away. >> there's going to be no political fallout, right? i mean, the fact is we're going to see this over the coming days, over the coming weeks, over the coming months, that donald trump is going to try to do these big, major things. a lot of them aren't going to work because they're unconstitutional, or he just doesn't have the absolute power to do so. but we've seen

that with him offering, um, uh, folks like eight months of, pay. yes. you know, about to the whole federal government. i mean, that's insane. >> we still don't know what's happening with foreign assistance that that that continues to be frozen at this point. >> right. and he's going to continue to do this, and his supporters are still going to back him. and there's going to be no political fallout. and that's the reality. we are in a new world now until things get really bad for people, and then it's really going to affect them. >> i do think it's interesting you didn't hear a lot of republicans speak out against him yesterday. there was a lot of like. defending it. it's chill. it's good. like just wait. it'll it'll work itself out. this happens all the time. but based on what jeff was saying behind the scenes, i think they were getting some calls at the white house from republicans and democrats alike. >> it's telling to me and fascinating that this so much echoes the first trump administration, his first term when in the early days of his tenure, he put out the muslim ban that then wound up getting struck down by the courts. he put out, i think, three or maybe

four versions before it finally sort of went through because it had to be revised so many times. but it speaks to this view of the executive that is aggressive and autocratic. some would say. >> look, we talk a lot about and we've talked about it on the show. we've talked a lot about what our founding fathers wanted. they wanted three co-equal branches of government so that someone didn't get a little bit too big for their britches. right. well guess what? we're in a situation right now where republicans own all three branches of government. and what is even more scary about that? and i would say the same thing about the democrats, if they had all three branches of government. what is really scary about that is that there is no pushback right now from republicans on capitol hill to just about anything that he is doing. as jackie was saying, everything was fine. you know, people are oh, it's okay. like they didn't come out and criticize him at all when they should have. but that's because they all fear him. >> and backlash from their constituents, frankly, that support.

>> him 100%. >> yeah. and in this case, that seems to be what drove it. now that's not stopping democrats from taking credit for killing this. but they didn't really have a message on this. >> i mean, you could see the press conference where chuck schumer and several other senators were came out in front on. this was actually about, i think, january 6th pardons initially, and they turned it into about this issue because of the news. and i think house democrats were going to meet this afternoon. >> yes. for, i think, about this emergency meeting, but it was very delayed. >> so exactly. so i think i mean, it would it they're welcome to take credit, but i think it was probably the backlash internally from republicans and from, you know, their own constituents that moved the needle here. >> and let's be very clear, this was just the first shot across the bow. they're going back to every one of these programs. and they're going to be a lot of these programs that will get sacrificed. and then we also have to realize, guess what? donald trump did win. like he did get a majority, you know, of the folks who support him. so that's the situation for the next couple of years, democrats have got to learn how to fight back. and i will tell you, just

watching that kennedy hearing today, i think that some of them did a pretty good job. but i will tell you, overall, their attack strategy on on robert f kennedy was not very good. >> and it shouldn't be surprising that this is an. >> administration that takes a very expansive look at the executive branch and executive powers. and, you know, i think lawyers are going to be a very lucrative profession. and this and this term, and you're going to see this again and again ahead of judges as outside groups try to push back over some of the things that they would consider overreach by this administration. >> no doubt the courts will be busy adjudicating some of these executive orders from trump. i'm curious to get your perspective on the rfk hearings and whether you think, like, mark, that some of the questioning from democrats wasn't as sharp as it could have been. >> so i think that i think, as lauren mentioned, the not only bill cassidy, who, of course, is a republican, but i think mark warner about having to do with medicare and medicaid really showed that he wasn't as

familiar with what most of what hhs does is. and that really came out with that questioning. i'll tell you who i was watching. the closest, though, was senator whitehouse. senator whitehouse from rhode island has a long relationship with rfk jr.. i believe they were law school roommates. they've been hunting, fishing together. didn't really ask a question, had lots to say, but didn't really ask him a question. and a lot of us were watching to see how he would handle that, because he's not he's not the only person who has a personal relationship with rfk jr.. he's a kennedy, but he was someone that really took the opportunity to talk more about rhode island and their interfacing with some hhs programs. not really to to try to hold him accountable to anything he said. >> can we just say one thing about abortion, too? when he said he didn't talk about his personal view, he said he would implement whatever president trump wanted. that was the green light for the folks who were concerned about his view on abortion, such as joni ernst. he said it, but there was so much other stuff going on that it

kind of got lost because democrats kept on going back to abortion. but he actually answered it in a way that will help him with the 50 republicans that he needs to to get confirmed. >> yeah, that will be interesting to watch. he, of course, has the help committee hearing tomorrow. and then we see tulsi gabbard and also kash patel later this week. >> very busy week. >> it is. it is. >> a busy week. >> and, you know, different strategies obviously for each of them. i just starting with tulsi gabbard, i do think that a lot of people have, republicans included, have some questions about where she stands on some of these issues and some of these things. she said that some of them have some national security experts have said, sound like russian propaganda. >> and i think because there's been a lot of talk, if she doesn't make it out of the committee, if if she doesn't get a majority, whether she ends up on the senate floor, we're going to be watching that for sure. >> you know, tulsi gabbard is really interesting because a lot of her support comes from not withinside washington. in fact, none of it really comes from inside washington. it comes from outside of washington. and like

the podcasters of the world, the whole zeitgeist that you know, that most of america lives in and not, you know, the little bubble that we live in here on, on the acela corridor. so the likes of joe rogan and those kind actually give her a lot of credibility that i think if she does get through, you can look back on that and say, that's probably why republicans helped get her through. yeah. >> mark and jackie, appreciate the conversation. we actually want to go back to the white house now. jeff zeleny is there, and he just got a statement from press secretary karoline leavitt on this rescinding of the freeze on federal grants and loans. what are you hearing? >> boris? we are hearing the first official reaction and somewhat of an explanation on this decision that we were talking about a few moments ago. let's read this together. i'm not sure there's clarity at the end of this, but we will talk about it. but the white house press secretary at karoline leavitt just a few moments ago, sending out this, that this is not a rescission of the federal

funding freeze. it is simply a rescission of the omb memo. why? to end any confusion, she writes, created by the court's injunction, the president's executive orders on federal funding remain in full force and effect and will be rigorously implemented. so if that was not already a bit of a confusing 40 hours or so, i think this is only added to that. so clearly, the white house press secretary, in a defensive explanatory mode, they're saying that they are still going to commit to the president's executive orders, which that is what he signed last week, saying that he wants to approve any new spending and existing spending in foreign aid and diversity, equity and inclusion, money and the like. what is less clear is if this. instructive, to freeze all programs, what the status of that is. so we will have to get more of a deeper understanding of this. but her reference there to the judge's order from last

night, that is a federal judge shortly before 5:00, when this freeze was intended to take effect, stepped in and temporarily halted this and said, this is sweeping language is, uh, you know, potentially problematic. so put a a pause on that. so the white house says, seeking to add clarity. we'll see what the white house counsel's office says. but for now at least, the point being, these programs are not frozen. but again, this white house, this is the biggest example yet. some questions of the ability to govern. and. competence. certainly coming to the fore in this case, boris and jessica. >> it certainly is jeff zeleny we will maybe we'll have another update. >> more clarity on the clarifying statement. >> yeah, this is still look, we're all still sorting through this, okay? jeff zeleny, thank you very much for that reporting. >> you bet. at any moment, president trump is going to sign the first bill of his second term into law. it requires undocumented immigrants be

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up to eight hours. >> lumify really works. >> see for yourself. >> news night with abby phillip tonight at ten eastern on cnn. >> the federal reserve is set to announce its decision on interest rates imminently. will the independent agency fly in the face of president trump's repeated calls for rate cuts? also, just moments from now, the president is set to sign the laken riley act, the first piece of legislation of his second term, one that has major implications for the administration's immigration crackdown. >> and the president's nominee for health secretary is under the microscope, robert f. kennedy jr.. telling lawmakers he is not anti-vaccine despite an extensive record of linking inoculations to autism in children. also, we're going to

have much more on this breaking news. the white house budget office sending out a new memo saying it's now rescinding the pause on federal aid. that, of course, had prompted a lot of chaos and confusion. well, there's more of that now. the white house is saying it's not a recession. so what's going on here and what happens next? there are a lot of questions about this. we're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to cnn news central. >> we begin this hour with the breaking news, the federal reserve announcing its decision on interest rates. >> cnn. cnn's matt egan is standing by. matt, the fed will not be changing rates this time. >> there's not much in here. but what we do speculate about what they'll do next. >> that's right. >> no change in interest rates. the fed deciding unanimously to hit pause on interest rate cuts.

this follows three straight cuts last year. now this decision was widely expected. it was well telegraphed by officials at the fed. and it's exactly what investors had been anticipating. now the fed is essentially in a holding pattern. officials are waiting for more information before they decide when or whether or not they'll be able to resume interest rate cuts. we didn't get many clues from the fed's statement that was released just moments ago. the fed did make some changes about how they're describing the economy. they inserted some new language that says that the unemployment rate has stabilized at, quote, a low level in recent months. and they're describing labor market conditions as solid. they also removed some language that had previously described some progress on the inflation front towards the fed's 2% goal. i think all of this does help explain why the fed is pausing. they need to see more progress on inflation

before they can cut further, and they don't feel like they need to be in a rush to rescue the jobs market. now, i'm sure this is going to come as a disappointment to some borrowers out there. the fact the fed is pausing doesn't help anyone who's trying to chip away at credit card debt. it doesn't help people who are trying to get a mortgage or a or a car loan right now, because yes, rates do remain high. i don't think this is going to sit all that well with the white house. president trump has made clear that he wants to see interest rates come down even further. of course, the president does not call the shots on interest rates. the fed does. i think this decision today makes that clear. of course, this does set up a potential clash between trump and fed chairman jerome powell, who, of course, was nominated by the president himself back in 2017. later this hour we're going to hear from jerome powell. he's going to face some questions about why the fed decided to pause. and also what he's thinking about as far as potential changes in

policy from this administration, including around tariffs. we're going to be looking for any clues from powell about what it's going to take to get the fed out of this holding pattern and back to cutting interest rates. back to you. >> all right, matt egan with the very latest on that. thank you very much. let's turn now to mark zandi, chief economist for moody's. mark, thanks for being here with us. let's just start first with what this expected decision signals about the state of the economy. >> it's good. the job market in particular is strong. we got a lot of jobs in the month of december. so coming into 2025, we're in a pretty good spot. unemployment 4%. you know we've been there for three years 4%. very consistent with the estimates of the economy's full employment unemployment rate. so all good there. so the economy feels pretty good. and you know, i think given that that's one reason why the fed feels like it can pause here and not cut rates further, particularly in the context of the somewhat

persistently high inflation still above their target. and i think increasingly just the uncertainty created by economic policy. it's really unclear what president trump has in mind with regard to the tariffs and deportations and tax policy. until they get some clarity there, until that dust settles a little bit, i think they're going to be reluctant to change policy, cut interest rates or raise interest rates. they're just going to sit on their hands. >> to that point, mark, how do trump's plans to put tariffs on goods coming from some of america's biggest trading partners? tariffs looming on mexico and canada, supposedly on february 1st? how does all that factor into this? why does the fed exercise caution when seeing that potential policy on the horizon? >> yeah, it matters a lot, boris. i mean, in fact, you can go back and look at the minutes from the meeting that the fed had six weeks ago. and in those minutes, it was clear that the fed officials are concerned about this. they don't know what to do and how to respond,

because they really need some clarity with regard to what the policy will actually be. but, you know, tariffs and deportations really complicate things for the fed, because both those things, higher tariffs, mass deportation that raises inflation. so, you know, all else being equal, you look at that, you say, hey, i should be raising interest rates right. and but higher tariffs and mass deportation that hurts growth. so that says oh i should lower interest rates. so the fed is kind of caught in between and really doesn't know what it should do. and until we get get some clarity around all of it and the result is what we're getting no change in interest rates. and you know, boris, the unfortunate thing is they're still high. i mean, the credit card rates 23, 24%. the 30 year fixed rate mortgage, well over 7%. auto loan rates remain elevated. so, you know, for the average american rates are still pretty high. and it's not good news that the fed has to, you know, stay stuck where it is in

anticipation of what the president and the administration has in mind on economic policy. >> yeah. well, more to come on this this is just the just the latest chapter in this book. matt egan and mark zandi, our thanks to both of you. we really appreciate it take care. >> scheduled to come this hour. president trump will sign the laken riley act, enacting the first bill of his new administration into law. it's, of course, named for the 22 year old georgia nursing student who was killed on campus last year while she was out for a run. an undocumented migrant from venezuela was convicted and sentenced to life without parole, igniting a national debate over immigration and crime. >> this legislation requires the department of homeland security to detain undocumented immigrants accused of theft and violent crimes. priscilla alvarez and elliot williams both joining us now. but let's go first to cnn's kaitlan. cnn's kaitlan collins, who was in the room for this event. caitlin, of course, the first legislation he'll be signing into law. what can we expect?

>> yeah, this is the first time we've seen a major bill signing by president trump since he entered the white house just over a week ago. there's a lot of lawmakers, i can tell you gathered here in the east room where i am, where the signing is going to take place. there's a small signing table placed on the stage behind me. and you've seen a lot of the lawmakers in this room who are either worked on this bill and led the legislation over on capitol hill or voted for it. that means republicans and there are even some democrats here in the room. i should note alabama senator katie britt is in one of the front rows. so is democratic senator john fetterman of pennsylvania. he's here as well and pushed for that and voted for it, because this was a bill that, as it moved and made its way through capitol hill, really did earn bipartisan support from lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, who ended up supporting it. and now we'll see trump come and sign it in the name of that slain georgia nursing student that boris just mentioned there. but of course, there's a lot of moving parts here at the white house today. i should note that we just got that memo that was released by the office of management and budget that seem

to be rescinding the memo that was issued late monday night, rescinding all or freezing all federal funding, trillions of dollars in grants to a lot of programs across the country, which caused a bit of an outcry or, i shouldn't say, a bit of an outcry, just an outright outcry from a lot of state officials and people who run organizations asking how they would be impacted by that. the press secretary just put out a statement saying that it is not a rescind. they are not rescinding all of the federal funding freeze overall. so still a lot of questions to come about. what exactly rescinding that memo means and what it means going forward, as we're seeing even lawmakers on capitol hill express some confusion about that. and i should also note that there are senators in this room who were in that hearing this morning with robert f kennedy jr. questioning him amid questions about what his confirmation is going to look like next on capitol hill. >> a lot to stay tuned for in that room as president trump signs the laken riley act into law. caitlin, please stand by for us. let's go to priscilla now. priscilla. break down. what? the act actually does

because there was some concern from lawmakers, critics who said that it was very far reaching. >> well. >> there is the top line of this. and then there's some of the under-the-radar provisions. so the top line here is that it allows the detention of undocumented immigrants, or rather, requires, if they have been charged or arrested with or convicted of crimes. now, that has been the provision that has been most talked about when talking about this measure. but there was some of the under-the-radar ones, and that includes specifically, as you see there, state attorneys general may sue in federal court over decisions made by the federal government about releasing certain immigrants from detention that essentially gives the states a lot more authority in dictating immigration enforcement. not only that, but they can also move to have the state department, say, put up

sanctions or visa restrictions on the countries who are not taking their repatriated citizens. so all of this to say that this measure is actually quite wide ranging and could have wide implications. and that is why some democrats received pushback from immigrant advocates, because, as you heard there from caitlin, this did get bipartisan support because there is so much more. as you sift through the text here that this bill does. now, in addition to all of this, though, born boris and jessica, there are warnings by immigration and customs enforcement officials to lawmakers telling them that they will not be able to carry out this law if they don't get millions more in funding. they have been historically underfunded and they just don't have the resources to do what this law says. in requiring the detention of all of these undocumented immigrants. so behind the scenes, there have also been conversations with ice officials and lawmakers just because there aren't enough resources in place to carry out

this measure. even with this measure and all of its implications. >> all right, priscilla, thank you so much. stay with us. i want to go to eliot williams, who's also with us, to kind of talk about more of the the legal aspect of all of this. of course, eliot, this is coming after the president's immigration crackdown continues all across the united states. so it certainly fits within that portfolio. walk us through legally what this means. and look, it is named after laken riley that this horrific story of this young woman who was brutally murdered, it will it actually be able to stop something like that from happening again? >> well, it's hard to say that any law will stop anything from happening in the future. a challenge that congress often has is they're solving yesterday's problem, not tomorrow's now. certainly. would this have prevented the circumstances of laken riley death? of course. now it's hard to know how many others there will be in the future. now, legally, how this will work is

ultimately it brings more people to the attention of immigration and customs enforcement. people who are unlawfully present in the country, despite the concerns that some democrats have raised about the bill, the simple fact is it does bring more people to ice's attention. but to priscilla's point, that becomes a resources issue for the department of homeland security. if you have a huge influx of people being brought to isis custody or attention, they're going to have to put them somewhere. they're going to have to detain them. they're going to have to put them in beds or ultimately put them on planes. those all cost money. and i don't think there's been a clear answer yet as to how that's all going to work out. um, as this plays out over the coming months. >> another aspect of the bill that is yet to be ironed out, as you said, eliot, is the fact that it empowers states attorney general, attorneys general or other officials within states to sue the federal government for perceived harm that's created by decisions, immigration decisions

that those state officials don't like, something as simple as. uh, processing a visa, allowing a visa, uh, is that constitutional? because some lawmakers were essentially saying that it's not. >> that's a really important question, boris. and and something that look and i worked at ice for five years, as you know, boris, we grappled with a lot of these questions a lot. what is the role of the states in immigration enforcement? and there are some programs where the states and the federal government do work together, or state authorities are deputized to work on immigration enforcement. but anytime you start increasing the powers that states have, you start raising yellow, if not red flags around the constitution. if it can be seen or argued that this bill empowers the states to be enforcing or carrying out immigration law, then you have a potential constitutional challenge. >> and we are watching right now as president trump walks out there as he prepares to sign

this first bill into law. in his second time in office. so while we're keeping an eye on that, eliot, i do want to ask you two just continuing down what you were talking about. what about racial profiling? is that a risk here? >> it's always a risk. um, and in particular, one of the concerns that was raised about the bill by democrats was that, um, merely being charged with a crime is sufficient to get on ice's radar here. now, the counterargument, and i think it's entirely a fair one, even. >> sorry to interrupt, eliot. we want to go ahead and listen to president trump now at the podium in the white house. >> the american people gave us a clear mandate to save our country, and we won all seven swing states by large margins, historic and very importantly, we won the popular vote by millions and millions of votes. also, all 50 states, as you know, shifted toward the republican party. and that's

never happened before. all 50. every single one of them. in our first week in office, we set records taking over 350 executive actions. that's not been done before, and it has reportedly been the single most effective opening week of any presidency in history. and we want to keep it that way. we want to keep it going. we want to keep it going. we've broken from decades of failed washington policies and restored common sense and sanity to our government. we've unleashed american energy, and we've already achieved record low illegal immigration. and as you see, there's nobody trying to get in. and that's what we've been waiting for for a long time and gotten woke ideologies out of our government and out of our military. the water has now begun flowing in california as we continue to increase the flow

in coming days. and nobody's seen anything like that. and i've also taken strong action to regain control of the washington bureaucracy. just for clarification purposes, because it was incorrectly reported yesterday, we have informed the federal workforce, which they've looked to do for many years, that if they're working for the federal government, they must show up to the office on time and on schedule. we don't want them. we don't want them to work from home because, as everyone knows, most of the time they're not working. they're not very productive. and it's unfair to the millions of people in the united states who are, in fact, working hard from job sites and not from their home. as federal employees. they must meet a high standard. they are representing our government. they're representing our country. if they don't agree by

february 6th to show up back to work in their office, they will be terminated. and we will therefore be downscaling our government, which is something that the last ten presidents have tried very hard to do but failed. most of the people we're talking about have not been going to their federal offices in many, many years, from even before covid. but they have nevertheless been paid. some have worked, some haven't worked, and most of the studies say that some have just gone through the motions. we may ask these people to prove that they didn't have another job during their so-called employment with the united states of america, because if they did, that would be unlawful. as you understand, a lot of people are getting paychecks, but they're actually working other jobs. so they'll have to prove that to us that they weren't. in any event, we're requiring them to show up to work or be terminated. we think a very substantial number

of people will not show up to work, and therefore our government will get smaller and more efficient. and that's what we've been looking to do for many, many decades. frankly. thank you. in addition, there was a short term pause or funding freeze on certain discretionary spending payments, such as government grants, only for us to quickly look at the scams, dishonesty, waste and abuse that's taken place in our government for too long, as was explicitly stated, this in no way affected social security, medicare, medicaid or other entitlements that americans depend on. i've made abundantly clear from the very first day that i ran from office. i was a long time ago. now that's 2015. if you think about it. i announced in 2015 and we won in 2016. we did very well in 2020,

but we did really well just recently. and i'm restating right now to correct any confusion that the media has purposely and somehow, for whatever reason, created social security, medicare and medicaid have not been affected by any action we're taking in any way, shape or form. we are merely looking at parts of the big bureaucracy where there has been tremendous waste and fraud and abuse. in that process, we identified and stopped $50 million being sent to gaza to buy condoms for hamas 50 million. and you know what's happened to them? they've used them as a method of making bombs. how about that? we stopped an attempt to make an illicit payment for illegal alien resettlement. we canceled $181 million in dai training contracts. this is just for the training of people in dai, which

has been terminated in completely terminated. and we paused $1.7 billion in unauthorized payments to foreign organizations, including stopping more than $40 million. that was on its way out the door to the very corrupt world health organization, which has not done its job and not done it properly. we also thank you. we also blocked $45 million for diversity scholarships in burma. 45. that's a lot of money for diversity scholarships in burma. you can imagine where that money went. these were the types of payments and many others. i could stand here all day and tell you things that we found, and we have to find them quickly because we want the money to flow to proper places. but these were the payments and types of payments affected by the temporary freeze. and the

american people strongly support these efforts. i talked about it during the campaign, and they voted for us in record numbers every single day. we're now putting america first and fighting to get the most out of every single tax dollar for our great citizens. we've gathered this afternoon to take another historic action. however, in a few moments, the laken riley act will become the very first bill that i proudly sign into law as the 47th president of the united. >> states. >> lincoln was a brilliant and beautiful 22 year old nursing student from georgia, the best in her class. she was always the best, they would say, like lake. and how do you do this and what do you do? they were always

asking her questions. she was respected by everybody, even her teachers. they respected her so much from the time she was in first grade, lincoln knew she wanted to spend her time caring for others. that's what she did to her friends and classmates. she was a light of warmth and kindness in every single room to her parents and family. she was everything in the world. they had a miserable period of time. just after 9 a.m. last february 22nd, lincoln went out for a jog on the campus of the university of georgia, but she was just never returned. she never came back to see her parents are here. sister. all of her relatives. while on her run, lincoln was attacked, viciously assaulted, beaten, brutalized and murdered by an illegal alien gang member who was set loose into our country by the last administration. we are deeply

honored to be joined today by lincoln's parents, alison and john, and her sister lauren. thank you very much. >> thank you so sad. >> we were together right after that happened. and. it's a tremendous tribute to your daughter. what's taking place today. that's all i can say, but it's so sad. we have to be doing it at all. thank you very much for being here to lincoln's family. we will keep lincoln's memory alive in our hearts forever. everyone's hearts with today's action, her name will also live forever in the laws of our country. and this is a very important law. this is something that has brought democrats and republicans together. that's not easy to do. lincoln did it. lincoln did it. america will never, ever forget lincoln. hope riley, the vicious criminal who

murdered precious lincoln, was an illegal alien member of the barbaric venezuelan prison gang known as tren de aragua. he trespassed across our southern border in 2022 and was apprehended by border patrol. but under the cruel policies of the last administration, instead of being deported as he should have been, he was released into the united states, as were millions of other people, many of them very dangerous people. and you see what we're doing? we're getting them the hell out of here. he was soon arrested. again in new york city on charges of endangering a child. but because of new york city's deadly sanctuary policies, as we have in california and many other places which we're ending, we're going to end

them. he was released again to reoffend. the biden administration then provided this illegal alien criminal with a free, taxpayer funded flight from new york to georgia, where he was arrested yet again constantly, this time for stealing from a walmart along with his gang member brother, who was a bad one. only after being released a third time by the u.s. law enforcement, did this cold blooded criminal go out. and that fateful morning, hunting for women on whom to prey. that's what he did. he hunted. he hunted. it was like a hunt. there. and we're going to show him who the hunter is. this horrific atrocity should never have been allowed to happen. and as president, i'm fighting every single day to ensure that such a tragedy never happens again. we don't want. >> this to happen. >> and under the law. >> thank you. >> under the law. i'm signing

today the department of homeland security will be required to detain all illegal aliens who have been arrested for theft, burglary, larceny, shoplifting, assaulting a police officer, murder, or any crime that results in death or serious injury. in addition, for the first time ever, this act gives state governments the ability to sue the federal government for immediate injunctive relief. if any future administration ever again refuses to enforce the immigration laws of the united states like happened. >> for four long years. >> and that was happening for four long years, frightful years. amazing. you'd say, how can people do this? how can they allow this to happen? how can they allow criminals to pour into our country and then try and defend it? and they're still trying to defend it, but they

can't. that's why i'm here. instead of somebody else. actually, it's the biggest reason i believe it's the single biggest reason. inflation was horrible. many things were horrible during that administration. when you look at what took place in afghanistan, the way they got out, not that they got out, but the way so many things were horrible. but to me, this was the worst of all. it's a landmark law that we're doing today. it's going to save countless innocent american lives. i want to thank every house republican, every senate republican, as well as the 12 senate democrats and the 48 house democrats who voted to pass this vitally important bill. and many of them are with us today, and i really do appreciate it. and i very much especially appreciate the bipartisan support the democrats really, a big percentage of them came through, and plenty of them wanted to. they probably felt they couldn't, but they really wanted to. they don't understand. that would have made him a lot more popular, would have made him a lot better with

their people. the ones that didn't are going to be they're going to be sorry, because the people are not going to forget that they wouldn't sign. this is a perfect, incredible tribute to an unbelievable young lady. we are joined today by many great supporters of our new strong border policies, and they are indeed strong, including vice president vance. thank you, j.d. secretary scott bessent, who just got approved. by the way, where's scott? he just got approved. scott, i'm very impressed. got a lot of democrat. >> votes to he. >> got a lot of democrat votes. that's great i don't know. is that a good thing or a bad thing? i'll have to think about that. secretary of homeland security, who's going to be fantastic. i know her so well, and i know it's probably not complimentary because she is a woman, but she is tough. where is she? where is kristi? christie. christie. great. stand

up please. you have such an important job to do. >> really great. >> thank you very much. and don't let that look fool you. that look is, uh, she's she's tough and she cannot stand what she's that she's having to sit here and even listen to this today. another one who's done a job like nobody that i've seen in a long time. tom homan. he's my friend, but he is something. >> special. are you something special? right and tom and christie, the numbers are unbelievable. >> what's happened? it's like just shut down. nobody thought that was even possible. it just shut down. they showed an area that a year ago had thousands and thousands of people rushing into our country. and today there was nobody there. it was like beautiful sight. and also senate majority whip john

barrasso, great guy, great guy. >> thank you. john. and i also want. >> to thank the bill's sponsors, senator katie britt. katie. thank you katie. >> and congressman mike. >> collins. and mike, you were fantastic from. >> georgia. >> he took he took this. he loves this state. and he took this very personally. so it's thank you very much mike. as well as senate judiciary committee chairman chuck grassley. chuck is here someplace. chuck, thank you very much. you look great. and house judiciary committee chairman jim jordan, who is a special guy, a special man. and house homeland security committee chairman mark greene, thank you very much. thank you, mark. and we have many other congressmen and senators, but i'm not going to introduce because this is about your daughter. this is about something that's so important.

and we're going to just go along. thank you. also, we have to say bert jones is in the room and bert is your lieutenant governor. and he was on this like you wouldn't believe. thank you very much. i see you sitting there. thank you very much. so we have state local officials. we have law enforcement organizations. we have everybody. most of them are in the room or represented in the room, and they're incredible people. and i've never seen them come together like they have for this. i've done many of these, not of this kind, but different bills, different passages having to do with many different things from from homeland security to inner security to taxes to 50 different items. i've never seen such support as you have today. and as your great daughter has today, so i've never seen anything like it. and, uh, we have to thank your daughter for that because she's going to save a lot of lives. she's going to be responsible

for saving a lot of lives. so i'd like to just say to the angel families, i've been with them, and they've been with me from 2015. when i first got this crazy idea in my head to run for president, because we can do better as a country. i want to thank so many of the people that are here that have been the angel moms, and we call them angel moms, but their angel families, fathers and sons and daughters, but they've suffered tremendously. like you have no reason whatsoever. i want to thank alexis nungaray, the mother of 12 year old jocelyn nungaray, murdered last summer by two illegal alien gang members released into the united states by joe biden's open border. stupid policies. and thank you very much, alexis. i want to thank you very much. we had an amazing trip, and it was really special to meet you and your family. appreciate it very much. it's so bad, so sad. we

have to be here, frankly. and jocelyn, as you know, is in our hearts as she was then. it was an amazing day. we had a great day, but it was a day of celebration of somebody that unfortunately won't be with us. but she is with us now. you know that here also is patty moran, the mother of rachel moran, killed two years ago by an illegal alien who was let into our country by the last administration's ridiculous weak policies. open border. can you imagine? when i heard open border, i said, oh, that's terrible. they're going to release their prisons all over the world. they're going to release their prisons into our country. that's exactly what happened. patty is joined by rachel's brother michael, rachel's daughter clementine, and sister in law shannon. thank you all for being here. we appreciate it very much. thank you very much. thank you. with us as well. is the loving family of kayla hamilton, a 20 year old girl murdered in july 2022 by the ms 13 illegal alien gang

member who is violent, vicious and they knew it and they didn't do anything about it. and i want to thank you to kayla's mother, tammy and her grandmother, kathy, and her. stepfather, jeremiah, very much. and finally, i want to thank others who have also suffered this horrible scourge that goes on with young people being killed and other people too. but young people, largely young people, being killed. thank you to scott root, the father of sarah root, killed at 21 years of age. think of that 21 by an illegal alien. shouldn't have been in our country. would have never been in our country if we were here. what a sad thing to each of these angel families. we love you and we stand in awe of your courage and your strength. it's the toughest thing anybody has to go through. many of the angel families here today were betrayed by the last administration, and with its

heartless and foolish and really very, very arrogant and and very, very dumb policies, policies that aren't even believable when you talk about common sense, i say we're the party of common sense. but the democrats also, they have plenty of common sense. and that's why so many are here today and so many supported what we're doing. the very government that was supposed to protect their daughters instead opened our borders and transported the world's most dangerous criminals straight into their communities. they came from prisons and jails and insane asylums and mental institutions from all over the world, not just south america. people think south america. they come from all over the world. they come from every continent. and they came here by plane and they were loaded onto busses, and they were driven right up to our border, and they drove right through the border, and nobody even said a word to them. and in those busses and those cars and those trucks were some of the meanest criminals anywhere in

the world. as of last september, 425,000 illegal alien criminals were roaming free, including 13,099 convicted illegal alien murderers, of which about almost 50% killed more than one person, and they were roaming all over the country, in our farms and our cities, under the trump administration, we're moving with urgency and speed to get these vicious and violent criminals the hell out of our country, and to restore law and order to our suburbs, our cities and our towns. and we're going to do it with tom and with christi and with all of the people that are working so hard on this this week, compared to a comparable time a year ago. think of this the number of illegal border crossers has already fallen by more than 100%. and because the election was coming, they started getting a little bit tougher on the border. they tried to follow our policies and they did much better, but it still was horrible. the numbers were still

horrible, so that's 100% over those. they only did it because of the election. so they knew they knew what they were doing was wrong. and those who do cross the border and you're seeing that every time. all you have to do is turn on your television set or pick up a newspaper, or read any form of new media, because we have a lot of new media today. fortunately, that's letting the word get out, but they're watching these people be captured and removed from our country. ice arrests have risen by 15 times. 15 times in just a short period. and over the past eight days, the heroes of ice and border patrol, we can never forget border patrol. those people have gotten to know so many of them. our borders are, as you remember, never went to the border and never made a phone call. she was the border czar. she never made one phone call. they went to the heads of the border. they went to the heads of ice. did you ever get a call? no. and she admitted she never made one call. but she was the border czar. and that's exactly what our border was all about. the heroes of ice have

arrested thousands and thousands of illegal alien criminals, including hundreds of gang members, traffickers, child predators, terrorists and murderers. for the first time in history, we're loading dangerous and illegal aliens into military aircraft and flying them back to the places from which they came. you probably read about colombia two days ago. they said, no, we're not taking them. i said, we're going to take them. you're going to take them. you're going to like it too. you're going to take. >> them they talked about we're not going to take people that are in shackles. >> they said, well, but the people that are in shackles are murderers. they're drug lords, they're rapists. they're very tough people. they make our criminals look like very nice people. that's about the only thing that comes out of this. and i said, could you imagine you're a pilot on the plane, and you have your copilot and you're sitting there and you

have 150 people, no shackles, and they like to murder people. this is not a good this would not be a good flight. so actually, so colombia apologized to us profusely within an hour based on something i said meaning you're going to pay tariffs like nobody's ever paid tariffs before. but they they actually wanted to terminate his his position there. essentially congress met and they were very angry with them. but they actually said they were going to send the presidential plane to pick up these criminals and to bring them because they didn't want to inconvenience us or have us do a second flight. and that's what they did, and i appreciate it. and i do appreciate the people of colombia are wonderful people. and the representatives really acted well. and i appreciated they took back that tough talk. but, you know, we may have tough talk from others, but it's not going to mean anything. they're going to all take them back and they're going to like it too. they're going to like it. they're going to take it back and they're going to like it. today i'm also signing an

executive order to instruct the departments of defense and homeland security to begin preparing the 30 000 person migrant facility at guantanamo bay. most people don't even know about it. we have 30,000 beds in guantanamo to detain the worst criminal illegal aliens threatening the american people. some of them are so bad we don't even trust the countries to hold them, because we don't want them coming back. so we're going to send them out to guantanamo. this will double our capacity immediately. right. and tough. that's a tough that's a tough place to get out of. today's signings bring us one step closer to eradicating the scourge of migrant crime in our communities once and for all. and it was just a purely it's just an unforced error that we even have to be doing this now. we need congress to provide full funding for the complete and total restoration of our sovereign borders, as well as financial support to remove record numbers of illegal

aliens. and these are illegal alien killers, criminals at levels that nobody's ever seen before. and you would have known that. and you were there when i said it. i said, everybody that's bad is going to be thrown. if you look at venezuela, venezuela's crime is down 77% because they've taken their gang members, their prisoners, their drug dealers, their drug lords, they've shipped them all into the united states, many other countries. their crime is way down and our crime is not doing well, but we're going to have it do really well very soon. and we're shipping all these people back where they came from. and now, before i sign the laken riley act into law, i would like to ask larkins, really incredible mother who i've gotten to know a very sad day. i got to know her. but this is an amazing tribute to an amazing young person. and if you could come up alison and say a few words, it would be great. thank you very

much. >> thank you, thank you. can. >> thank you. thank you. trump. we would like to thank senator katie britt for her diligent bipartisan work to get this bill through the senate. we'd also like to thank congressman mike collins for his unwavering passion and for leading on the laken riley act from the start. our family will forever be grateful for the prayers of the people across our nation and for helping to get this legislation into law. we also want to thank president trump for the promises he made to us. he said he would secure our borders and that he would never forget about larkin and he hasn't. he's a man of his word, and we trust that he will fight for the american

people. most importantly, i want to thank our lord and savior jesus christ because without his sacrifices, lincoln's story would have ended on that horrific day that she was taken from us. but because of him, we can continue living knowing that we will see lincoln again. there is no amount of change that will ever bring back our precious lincoln, our hope moving forward is that her life saves lives. we're so thankful that her passion for helping others, and her legacy for doing good in the name of jesus christ, will carry on. thank you. >> thank you unbelievable. whatever you can do. unbelievable. come on. why don't you stand right here? how? she is right over.

>> thank you. we're going to sign this in honor of laken riley. come on up here. some of the people that we love that have been so instrumental. okay okay. >> ana navarro right. okay. thank you thank you, mr. president. >> government funding. can you take a quick question on government funding? the pause.

>> i don't think this is appropriate time. >> really? okay. >> i respect that. but i don't think it's appropriate. i can just tell you government is doing very. well and we're cutting way back, but this is not the appropriate time. >> thank you. thank. you. >> and you're watching there as president trump leaves signing his first piece of legislation into law, the laken riley act. there with family members of laken riley. an emotional moment there for the family. also, though, the president making some news in the on the immigration front saying that he has ordered guantanamo bay to be prepared for to house migrants, he says 30,000 beds. also, boris, he he had a number of kind of he wanted to take essentially a victory lap on some of his his immigration measures, some of which the stats are just not not correct. >> notably the president there saying that ice arrests are up

15 times. we're going to fact check that in just a moment. you're absolutely right, jessica, that in large part, this was a victory lap for president trump as he took a moment to dedicate this bill signing to laken riley, that 22 year old slain nursing student. he described her as unbelievable, repeatedly referenced her mom in the crowd, notable that the president did not want to take questions on federal funding. at the end of this ceremony after he signed the bill. but to start his remarks, he actually referenced a number of executive orders, not the least of which is this order regarding federal workers, he described people that were working from home as not being productive. he referred to studies that say they've gone through the motions for years, and now the federal government is requiring them to work from home. we'll dig into all of those details in a moment. but the president there also blamed the media for confusion related to this freeze of federal

funding programs, grants and loans. it was lawmakers, including republicans, who expressed uncertainty about exactly what it meant for programs like head start and meals on wheels. uh, this comes just moments after the white house rescinded through omb. this order that froze trillions of dollars in federal funds. let's dig deeper into the details of everything we just. heard from president trump. i believe we have jeff zeleny live for us at the white house who has been tracking all of this. we have priscilla alvarez to break down news on the immigration front. elliot williams is also with us to break down the legal implications of implementing this bill. jeff, let's start with you. what stood out from this news that president trump just made? >> boris, i think to your point there, you said the the president referenced the the making room at guantanamo bay for a 30,000 beds. that is something that we've not heard from him directly. but priscilla will talk about that more in a

moment, i'm sure. but as for the federal funding, i mean, what we saw there was the president trying to have the upper hand and say this was not a reversal, again, blaming it on the confusion that was sown, not taking responsibility for the confusion that his government was playing the leading role in here. and we have heard so much backlash and a pushback from lawmakers of both parties saying that constituents simply were concerned and worried about the funding for loans and grants that really affect so many parts of american life. but the president there making clear, he said, we're merely looking at parts of the big bureaucracy. well, the reality is the office of management and budget, as you said, has rescinded that order to do a broad freeze over $3 trillion in government spending. a federal judge last evening put a pause on that, essentially saying, hold up. we will wait

until monday when both sides can sort of argue this case. but the white house rescinding that, perhaps out of fear that they might not be on solid legal ground there. that is what many folks were thinking, but also making clear that he is leaving in place those executive orders he signed last week on the funding for foreign aid, on the funding to eliminate programs for diversity, equity and inclusion. so a much more narrowed freeze of programs, rather than that broad brush that he painted that really caused so much alarm. but there is no doubt this is a significant moment for signing this bipartisan bill into legislation. some democrats, obviously also came on board. they know immigration was a major concern in the campaign. it's something that they are struggling to sort of come to terms with. so the president really on day nine, signing a piece of legislation which is no small feat as well, but certainly for the rest of the fact checking, there is much,

much to break down. >> so let's do some of that. yeah. jeff, thank you so much for bringing us up to speed on that piece of it. let's go to priscilla alvarez. now, who follows this immigration policy so closely? priscilla, i'm going to kind of let you take it away. but certainly the top notes here, the guantanamo bay news that he's ordering that to be prepared to house migrants. and also some of the statistics he was giving, as boris mentioned specifically, that there have been 15 times the amount of ice arrests just are not correct. >> well, of course, this has been a signature issue for president trump. and he took this moment to take that victory lap as he was signing this first bill on immigration. and in the course of those remarks, he made news about the use of the of guantanamo bay to hold migrants. now, just for some context, here at guantanamo bay does have a migrant operation center. that has been the case for years. typically, it has been used when migrants are intercepted at sea by coast guard. so in the

caribbean to temporarily hold them and repatriate them. now, over the years, including under the biden administration, it was reviewed again because of concerns of multiple surges. but they did not take this route of growing it to hold more migrants. but what the president said there was that it would be used for 30,000 beds. now, that is a considerable number of beds, and there are still a lot of details here, because intercepting people at sea and then holding them temporarily there to repatriate them would be different than if this were to be used. for example, for people who are arrested in the interior of the united states. so we will still be collecting more information and details on how exactly that's going to work. but it is telling of something that the administration is already grappling with, which is, of course, detention space. while they have increased arrests over the last several days. and i'll get into that in a moment. they also are quite limited in how much detention space they have. this has been true for many

administrations, simply because immigration and customs enforcement has been historically underfunded. so in some respects this along with news last night that they would be using a military base to hold immigrants, is telling of the way that they are building out this immigration enforcement apparatus and looking to the defense department to do exactly that. now, in terms of the arrests, yes, there has been an increase of arrests in the interior of the united states over the last several days. the daily numbers have been higher than they were going up to about 1000 or more. that's more than biden administration over the last year of about 300 arrests. there is a question there of sustainability, and they have also been deploying doj agencies to also augment these operations. and the numbers, of course, of those of who exactly is making up the totals. we're still trying to get a better breakdown. of course, they say it's public safety and national security threats, but certainly the numbers have gone up, just

not by 15 times. then i want to get into, he said. nobody trying to get in at the border. the president is right. there's not that many people trying to cross the us-mexico border. the numbers have plummeted since last summer, but there are still border crossings. of course, it has become increasingly difficult for those crossing because asylum access has essentially been sealed off at the us-mexico border. but clearly, the president, taking a moment there to to applaud tom homan, the border czar, and his homeland security secretary, kristi noem. so he appears to be happy with the results he's seeing so far as the white house is, of course, applying a lot of pressure to those out on the field to deliver. >> elliott quickly to you, the legality of sending migrants to guantanamo bay from the continental u.s., as priscilla pointed out, folks that were, are basically crossed at sea by the u.s. coast guard have been sent there in the past. notably a lot of cubans. i do wonder what the process is like to fill

those 30,000 beds. >> right? the issue, the biggest legal issue, boris, isn't just the use of the space, it's number one. how is it being paid for? and number two, who are the personnel processing those bodies? military under our law is generally prohibited from engaging in domestic civil enforcement, including immigration enforcement. so the question would be, who is processing these folks at guantanamo bay? and i am certain that congress, if not outside groups, will have questions as to how these folks are being housed at guantanamo bay. but just the mere use of the space. yeah, the government does have some latitude to do that. and to priscilla's point, when we're talking about 30,000 beds, that's nearly doubling the bed capacity, nearly doubling the bed capacity. >> uh oh. we lost. elliot almost got the whole point there. but but thanks to elliot williams, sorry, we lost. >> our thanks to elliot, priscilla and jeff. still to

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on federal aid. now, in an attempt to clear up any confusion created by the court injunction, the white house says it's rescinding the order, but not the freeze. not confusing at all. so what actually comes next? we'll discuss. plus, bipartisan concerns raised during robert f. kennedy jr.'s confirmation hearing. the nominee for health and human services secretary pushing back on criticisms from democrats that he's a vaccine skeptic as he tries to reassure leery conservatives about his shifting stance on abortion. >> and the president says he is considering taking arrested migrants to guantanamo bay. we're going to discuss the administration's immigration crackdown with homeland security secretary kristi noem. we're following these major developing stories and many more. they're all coming in right here to cnn news central. >> a lot of threads to follow this afternoon. breaking news. we're following this hour. i'm boris sanchez alongside jesse goodin in for brianna keilar in

the nation's capital. just minutes after the white house office of management and budget rescinded its freeze on trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans, the white house now says that president trump's executive order on freezing certain federal funding remains, leading to a lot of confusion. >> yes. cnn's jeff zeleny is following the latest for us. and, jeff, there was already so much confusion across the country about what this funding freeze meant. president trump just did address address it during that that bill signing. what did he say he certainly addressed a portion of it and some of that confusion. >> now should be dissipating because that executive order, that memorandum to the budget, the office of management and budget on monday that sparked all this confusion that has been rescinded and that is still in effect. the president simply doubling down on executive orders that he signed that he says are aligned with his beliefs and ideology on eliminating some foreign aid, on eliminating a diversity, equity

and inclusion programs. but he did not accept the blame for this confusion that has been sown over this, really, which we've been hearing from republicans and democrats alike. instead, he said he's trying to rein in the federal bureaucracy. >> there was a short term pause or funding freeze on certain discretionary spending payments, such as government grants, only for us to quickly look at the scams, dishonesty, waste and abuse that's taken place in our government for too long, as was explicitly stated, this in no way affected social security, medicare, medicaid or other entitlements that americans depend on. >> so yes, social security and medicare was never part of this medicaid. however, the government health insurance for lower income americans. there was a pause on that yesterday. but the bigger question was on just a variety of a federal

program, some $3 trillion worth everything from pell grants to some ag loans to really everything running the gamut. but that was placed on pause yesterday when a federal judge stepped in in the wake of a series of lawsuits. other attorneys general also filed suit. so for now, at least, this rescission of that program means that things should go back to last week. and last week, of course, the president signed those executive orders, trying to put his imprint on the federal government, again, restricting some of those programs. so there's no question about it. when you break all this down, the bottom line is an incredibly large reversal here at the white house. they've been placing blame. outside. clearly, they decided that the backlash they were hearing, we've heard from a lot of people, it was simply not done properly. so perhaps also wanting to avoid a court case coming on monday. so for now that rescinded. but the white house, not surprisingly, perhaps not acknowledging a considerable

walk back. >> and forward to see if that order gets resurrected somehow moving forward. jeff zeleny from the white house, thank you so much. meantime, on capitol hill, lawmakers are soon going to weigh the fate of president trump's highly controversial pick to lead the department of health and human services. today, we watched as senators grilled robert f kennedy jr. during his confirmation hearing. they pressed him about his anti-vaccine rhetoric and asked him specifically about abortion, health care costs, chronic diseases, and food safety. >> if confirmed, kennedy would be in charge of a sprawling government department that includes the very agencies that approve vaccines. let's turn now to cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta, who is here with us in the studio. it's always good to have you here in person. i just want to start first there with vaccines, vaccine skepticism. what were your takeaways in that arena? >> you know, he started in his opening statements being very conciliatory toward vaccines. he made this point that he was pro-vaccine, that he had his own

kids vaccinated. he wasn't going to take away vaccines from anyone. so, you know, it sounded like he was very much trying to appease the people's concerns about this. but i think where the senators really focused a lot of the attention on all the things he's said in the past and trying to reconcile that with what he was saying now. for instance, he said he got his kids vaccinated, but then subsequently said he regretted that decision. so what kind of signal does that send to people? i think that that's where the senators are really going. it's tough. i mean, i listened to the whole thing, and i'll be honest, and i've been following him for years and years, and i still don't know exactly sometimes how he reconciles what he's saying himself, at times saying he doesn't believe that vaccines are safe and effective and yet still being pro-vaccine. like, how do you reconcile these things? what my takeaway was the senators were trying as best they could to get some some more definition around that, but i don't think they really did. >> much of it is under the guise of simply asking questions. but but that often has a real life impact, and it shows when it comes to vaccination rates.

>> yeah. you know, that's a great point, boris. i mean, this idea that, hey, we just want radical transparency. we're just asking questions. we just want the science. but i also know from having reported on this for so long, so much of that science has been presented to him and to his organization. so they see these same studies that everyone else sees. but there is real impact. so if you look at vaccination rates specifically and you basically asked this question, how likely are you as a parent to vaccinate your kid today versus a few years ago? and what you'll find is that, you know, 3 or 4 years ago, i think it was close to 90% of parents say that they would vaccinate their kids. now it's closer to 82%. to give you a little bit of context, when it comes to something like measles, you need to get around 95% vaccination. such a contagious disease, you need around 95% to start getting herd immunity. we're already seeing measles outbreaks and things like that. even before the pandemic, we were seeing that 82%, those measles outbreaks are going to grow. >> yeah. and then there's the

piece of of autism, which there's no evidence that vaccines and autism are linked. but but he's talked a lot about that. >> look, you know, i have three kids. so i think about this a lot as a doc. i think about this a lot as a parent. um, in the late 90s, the specter of a possible connection between autism and vaccines was raised by what is now a widely debunked paper. just 12 kids were in that study and it was debunked, but it got people sort of thinking, well, let's study this. so over the last, you know, whatever number of years now, there have been a lot of studies. and when i say large studies, hundreds of thousands of kids followed for years saying, here are the kids who are vaccinated. here are the kids who are not vaccinated. was there a difference in autism rates? let's control for their age. let's control for their family history. do all these things to make sure there is not a link between vaccines and autism, and there simply is not. part of the problem is we still don't know why autism rates have gone up. they have gone up. we don't know why that is. it could be because parents are older now having kids than they

were in the past. it could be some other environmental exposure. so we don't know what it is. but we know that vaccines are not causing this. >> his repeated efforts to get answers and to to make america wealthy again, i think appeals to a lot of people. but obviously the devil's in the details and some of his opposition to, for example, covid 19 vaccines has caused a lot of skepticism in that regard. and during the hearing today, senator kennedy said that most experts agree that covid vaccines are inappropriate for six year old children who basically have zero risk from covid. i wonder what you make of that. >> well, i don't know when he says most experts what that means. i think, you know, if you look at the large medical organizations, the american academy of pediatrics, organizations like that, they recommend vaccination for kids as well. i think here's here's how i would sort of frame it. there's no question that older people had a much higher risk of getting sick and dying from covid, exponentially higher, hundreds of times higher than kids. but, you know, i pulled

some numbers, you know, just after those those those hearings for for children between the ages of zero and 17, for example, around 2000 children died of covid 2000. now tens of thousands died in older age groups. but if i just told you that number alone and nothing else, hey, there's a disease that's out there that's circulating, it's going to kill 2000 kids over the next couple of years. would you want to do something about it? right? i think that is the framing of this, i think is so important. if you just say, hey, compared to older adults age 75 and older, it's vastly different. that is true. it is vastly less risky for kids when you compare it that way. but just as a stand alone sort of number, that's, you know, five jumbo jets full of kids dying. and that's why i think vaccines continue to be so important. >> yeah. and the point you made earlier today, too, just that he would be in charge of the largest health organization essentially in the world. yes. it is worth. >> remembering the biggest health enterprise in the world. >> all right, doctor sanjay gupta, good to see you. thank

you so much. we're going to go now to one of the lawmakers who questioned robert kennedy jr.. today, senator tina smith, a democrat from minnesota. senator smith, thank you so much for being here with us. i know your questions to rfk jr. focused on his stance on mental illness, on depression, on anti-depressant drugs. and you talked about your own personal experience battling depression earlier in your life. did you find his answers satisfactory? >> i really didn't. you know, i think that it's so important that mister kennedy is held accountable for his past statements. and in the past, he has said that he believes that antidepressants could could be a cause or a cause for school shootings. now, to doctor gupta's point, there is no scientific basis for saying that. yet his words have consequences. and so today in the committee, i wanted to hold him accountable for the things that he has said. he's very resistant to that. he does not strike me as an individual who is used to being held accountable. but as we all know, words do have consequences. and i'm thinking of the millions of

americans who struggle with mental illness and depression, who are relying on antidepressants to help them get through the day and help them to function, and ultimately to get better and how they are feeling about being stigmatized. and just these lies and misinformation being spread about a challenge that affects so many americans. >> and so i would assume, based on your answer there, he does not have your vote. >> no, he does not have my vote. i think you have here a person who tried desperately today to separate himself from the things that he said in the past to, you know, especially you think about vaccines. here's an individual who led the leading anti-vax organization trying to say, no, no, that's not me. i don't mean any of that. and i just don't think that's credible. but even more, i heard his response to some of my republican colleagues, particularly senator cassidy, who asked very fair and very detailed questions about. medicare and medicaid. and mister kennedy appeared to really have barely an elementary

grasp of the issues and the challenges around those really important programs that provide health insurance to millions of americans. >> and while he doesn't have your support, some democrats, a lot of americans, frankly, do support his views when it comes to chronic disease and ultra processed foods, especially parents feeding kids. would you agree that those should be in priority for whoever leads this? agency? >> oh, absolutely. i we all understand that we have an epidemic of chronic disease in this country, and particularly just focusing for a moment on diabetes. and we understand that while there are many causes for that, that you have to look at, you know, diet and health and exercise as a contributor to that. so this is something that i think that we all can agree on. and it should be an important focus as we think about what we're going to do, not only to have americans be able to live healthier lives, but also to get a handle on our

skyrocketing health care costs, which are driven in large part by the costs of caring for people who suffer from these chronic diseases. >> i also want to ask you about this federal funding freeze memo that has been rescinded just in the last couple of hours. we heard from the white house press secretary, karoline leavitt, who says president trump's executive order on federal funding is still in effect, though, and this is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze. do you have any clarity at this point about what is frozen and what is not? >> so i think what happened yesterday with the federal district court basically saying that the, you know, enjoining this freeze by the trump administration gave some clarity to minnesota organizations who count on federal grants to provide, you know, domestic violence shelter and health care to people. they have some clarity that, at least for the time being, things are they know what's happening. i give huge credit to people all over the country who just were outraged

by this. and i think the backlash has a lot to do with what the trump administration did today. but right now we have, i think, just a lot of confusion about what it is that they actually intend. and i can speak from experience. i just left a meeting with some minnesota head start folks, and they feel somewhat happy that for the moment, they know that they can meet payroll at the end of this week, but they feel no confidence that they're going to be in a good place in even a week or two. >> and my colleague kaitlan collins asked your democratic colleague, senator murphy, senator chris murphy, if democrats are responding to trump in a way that works, and he said yesterday was a wakeup call, there has been some criticism of democrats that they're not doing enough. do you think that your party is doing enough? >> well, i think yesterday you saw everybody swing into action, and i was really, really grateful for that. at the same time, i mean, let's just be honest, the strategy of the trump administration is to, you know, flood the world with, like, any number of things that

we can't possibly respond to, each and every one of them. it's a strategy, right? if we spend all of our days running around chasing after every crazy thing that they do or say, then we're totally off of, you know, making any progress on the things that we want to make progress on. so i actually think you're seeing democrats coalesce around, look, we want to lower costs, we want to have safer communities, and we're going to hold these guys accountable for the corruption and the self-dealing that they are demonstrating. and we're focused on that. and that means we might not chase after every nutty thing that they throw out there. >> but in this case, it seems like it was really americans who were concerned that rang alarm bells here. >> yes, it totally was. i mean, i think it was just so shocking to people to wake up yesterday morning and go, wait a minute, like my local child care that i take my child to that has some federal grant money, might not be open, or the the veterans who rely on somebody to drive them to toctor's appointment. wait a minute. that federal

grant for that drive to the doctor's office might not be there. it was, i think, just a reminder to people about how these, um, these this, you know, canceling every single federal grant and discretionary funding has huge ripple effects through the lives of people and actually ends up making them be less safe and less secure. >> all right. senator tina smith, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you very much. >> still ahead, president trump signs the first bill of his second term into law. the laken riley act requiring undocumented immigrants be detained if they're charged with certain crimes. we're going to be joined by the secretary of homeland security, kristi noem, who was at that signing, and we'll talk with her about how the trump administration is tackling immigration. >> cnn news central. brought to you by viking. exploring the world in comfort when i really philosophize about it, there's one thing you don't have enough

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to know to start your day. >> cnn's five things. >> with kate. >> baldwin now streaming on max. >> president donald trump getting his first big legislative win. signing the laken riley act into law, named for the 22 year old georgia nursing student killed last year by a man in the united states without legal status. laken riley family was there in the crowd, and her mother also got a chance to speak. obviously, she was emotional dedicating this moment to her late daughter. the president also making some news indicating that he was ordering the federal government to prepare some 30,000 beds in guantanamo bay for undocumented migrants. not many details provided by the white house specifically on that. but this new law requires undocumented migrants accused of certain crimes to be detained and possibly deported even before they ever face trial. we should

note critics of this law point to a number of different things that they say are problematic. for one. migrants only have to be accused of a crime, not convicted or even sentenced, or their cases don't have to be adjudicated before they could be deported. further, it allows state officials, state attorneys general or other state officials to sue the federal government for individual immigration decisions that they view as problematic. some folks feel that that is unconstitutional and therefore a serious problem. we should point out that president trump, i'm sorry, i have to talk to my producer for one second. michelle, what was that? oh, we're having some technical difficulties. but on the other side of a quick break, we're going to be joined by the secretary of homeland security, kristi noem. stay with cnn. we'll be back in just moments. >> the lead with jake tapper today at 4:00 on cnn.

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what the options are, who would be detained and whether military personnel might be involved? >> well, president. >> trump did talk about that a little bit at the ceremony. >> just talked about. >> the fact that there. >> might be some resources that could be established for the worst of the worst at guantanamo bay, and that's something that he is evaluating, along with. >> our team. >> at the department of homeland security. but today was really about larkin. it was really about these families in the united states that have lost their loved ones many times, their children. and it was so special to see president trump recognize that, talk about their children and tell their stories, and then to see the bipartisan support of this bill being signed into law. now, when we have individuals come into this country and break our laws and commit crimes of theft, larceny, assault, murder, rape, they will be detained by the department of homeland security and turned over for prosecution. and that's a change from the last administration. and i think that everybody there, republican or democrat, we're all americans,

and we all recognize that this bill was necessary. and it was so special that it is going to help us always remember larkin and those who've been lost because of these tragedies. >> yeah. listening to her mother speak was especially moving. i do want to ask you, secretary, what protections does this law have in place to protect folks who may have entered the country illegally, but have since obtained permission to stay temporarily? >> well, this bill is all about those who commit crimes that they will be detained. so this bill specifically addresses situations where people's lives were lost because criminals, dangerous criminals, were allowed to be released back into the united states to perpetuate more crime. so it also allows states that to go after civilly federal officials that that let these criminals go, that turn them back on our streets to, to endanger more families. so i'm really thankful that that was added through the amendment process and that it is something that is a tool for states to hold some accountability to the federal officials that that

allow these things to happen. >> well, i ask you about the protections because opponents have argued that they're not actually spelled out in this bill. so in theory, if someone was simply arrested for shoplifting, just arrested, not convicted, not their case wasn't adjudicated, they could be detained without bond for the duration of their proceedings. does that raise concerns to you about due process? >> well, what we need to remember is all these individuals came into our country, already broke our federal law, they broke our federal law, and then they perpetuated another crime. so they will be detained and they will get due process, and they will go through our judicial system, and we will make sure that when they commit these types of crimes, they'll be held accountable to that. so this bill is moving forward in a way that has republican support, bipartisan support. it was great to see senators., as. it will be amazing to. >> see as far as what the bill spells out, though, these aren't individuals that have

been determined, some of them to have committed crimes. you could simply be accused of shoplifting, accused suspected of shoplifting and then get deported. so how does that fit into what you're describing? because they could be detained almost indefinitely until their status is adjudicated. >> well, i think if you look at the situations, they've already broken a law, then they've come in and perpetuated and been accused of another broken law, and they will be detained until that is moving forward. and we have a resolution to that process and that crime. you know, this is a bill that people have agreed on that is necessary in this country because of what we saw happen under the biden administration. so it has wide support. the president was proud to sign it today. and these families that lost their children to tragedies, they were thrilled to see some results from those tragedies come for the better good of the united states of america. >> i do want to ask you about how this sort of detainment is going to be funded. there are

some estimates that have this new framework for detainment costing something like $83 billion over the next three years. the bill doesn't outline how exactly that's going to be funded. so i wonder, where is that money coming from? >> mhm. >> well, to start standing up some of these detainment centers, centers, we're using operations and budget that we already have in place, but we will need more help. we will need more dollars from congress and the reconciliation process is going to be utilized to have that debate on on the capitol hill. we've got senators and representatives that recognize that in order to do this and to fix the situation that the biden administration perpetuated, we're going to need the resources not only to incarcerate and go out and get these dangerous individuals off our streets. we're going to have to detain them, put them through a process to repatriate them back to their home countries. and for me, we really need to focus on fixing our legal immigration system as well. i need more resources to have our judicial courts and

immigration courts resourced up, that we have more judges, so that when people want to come to this country legally, they can do that in a timely process. >> so how many of those that have been arrested since these crackdowns began have been felons? how many have had felonies versus misdemeanors? in other words, how many folks have actually been convicted of crimes versus how many of them have just been in the country without documentation? >> many of these individuals that we have done targeted operations to go find and to bring into custody do have felonies against them. they're they're the murderers, the rapists, the worst of the worst. and i think you've probably heard many other people talk about the fact that these are going to be the worst first will be the ones that will be held accountable and pulled off of our streets. and it was amazing. when i was in new york city yesterday, just the community members that were constantly walking by, a lot of these individuals and officers that

were going after these bad criminals were saying, thank you. thank you for making our streets safe again. thank you for being here and making sure that we can walk our kids to school again safely, that we can go to work safely, and that our community will be better because of what we're doing here today. >> but undoubtedly you said many, but it doesn't sound like you have a specific number for how many have actually been felons and how many have had misdemeanors for for not having documents, something that in the united states is prosecuted as a civil matter. >> well, i'll tell you that what we are doing is targeting those felons, targeting those that have violent acts and have broken crimes, but also when we're going into these situations, perhaps into an apartment, to get somebody that is on our list that needs to be removed from that community to make it safer. there are people that are in that apartment with them. we're talking to all of those as well, and vetting to see who they are. sometimes we have found apartments and facilities that have children and families there, that we're talking to them to see who they

are and make sure that they aren't children who are being trafficked, that they're truly with family members, that they're in a situation where they're hanging around dangerous criminals. we want to make sure that they're not people who are a part of that chain, that is funneling drugs or weapons or or perpetuating some of these crimes in our communities. so that evaluation and those numbers is changing every single day based on who's who is around these criminals and who's around those dangerous individuals. >> but as you are conducting these sweeps, there undoubtedly have to be occasions where someone who has not committed a felony is getting swept up and perhaps that's a person who has been law abiding and who has been in this country, perhaps for decades, and who contributes through paying taxes. do they also deserve to be deported if they've lived most of their lives in the united states? >> you know, every situation is different, and i won't speak to every single situation and every single operation we've had where our officers have gone out into

these targeted operations. but what i will say is, of course, we do the due diligence that law enforcement always has been. we ask questions, we see who they are, we ask for their paperwork. we ask for their id. we're just making sure that these individuals are people who love this country, who obey our laws, and that the scales of justice are applied equally. you know, we expect our american citizens to obey our laws. even people who aren't our citizens should be obeying our laws. and that's the process we're going through that law enforcement always has. >> sure, some of those folks may have had status at one point, but then lost it. and i do wonder, for example, the administration announced this morning that tps protections for venezuelans are being rolled back. by our count, there's something like half a million, more than half a million that stand to be affected by saturday's deadline. are they going to lose protected status? does that make it more likely that they will get deported? >> well, you know, one of the decisions that was made recently

is that in the department of homeland security, secretary mayorkas put in place an 18 month extension of the temporary protected status. i rolled that back. i rolled it back to the six months that it always has been, and he really put that in place to tie my hands. my ability to to to keep integrity into this program. so this program has been in place for years. we're going to make sure that it's used properly. and that's the president's heart and desire as well. so when the president gives a directive, the department of homeland security will follow it. and we're going to make sure that those who come in under a program, under a visa and are here in this country, that they're following the rules of that program that's been abused over the years, and it needs to be fixed. those folks who are in violation of these programs, they need to recognize that they're accountable to that. they agreed to follow the rules when they came, and that they need to be held accountable when they don't follow them. >> but if they are following the rules of a program that you have deemed to be illegitimate, does

that still put them at risk of being deported, even if they are following those rules? >> sure. >> you know, we are getting direction on how this works from the direction of the president of the united states, and he is pausing this program to evaluate. we know that it has been abused in the past, and that there's many people from other countries that are affected as well. from this tpp program. and we're going to make sure that we fix it so that it's utilized in the right way. >> lastly, secretary, i do wonder if there are protections in place for people who are here legally. i think of family members of my own that don't speak english very well, hardly at all. are there protections in place to prevent against racial profiling? >> oh, absolutely. yes, absolutely. these folks can live in peace knowing that all of their willingness to come to this country legally and to be here, we welcome them with open arms. that's america's story and something that we're proud of.

so i understand that the american people clearly sent a message in november that they wanted this, this country to be a nation of laws. that's what the president is following through on. and transparency is going to be our hallmark. people need the answers to their questions. and that's what i'm here for, is to make sure that they understand that we love this country. we want our citizens to feel comfortable and at peace, and to have their safety and their streets back again. >> secretary kristi noem, we have to leave the conversation there. appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective. we hope to chat again soon. >> you bet. thank you. >> stay with cnn news central. we're back in just moments. >> if you're living with dry amd, you may be at risk for developing geographic atrophy or ga. ga can be unpredictable and progress rapidly, leading to irreversible vision loss. now there's something you can do to. >> slow it down. >> and get it going slower. >> ask your doctor about isabey. >> i survey. it's ga going

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>> the white house is offering voluntary resignations in a move president trump says is designed to shrink and reform the government. employees received an email with the subject line fork in the road and were told if they wanted to leave to simply respond with the word resign by next thursday. then they would receive severance payments through september 30th. president trump addressed the buyouts this afternoon. >> we have informed the federal workforce, which they've looked to do for many years, that if they're working for the federal government, they must show up to the office on time and on schedule. and it's unfair to the millions of people in the united states who are, in fact, working hard from job sites and not from their home as federal employees. they must meet a high standard. they are representing our government. they're representing our country. if they don't agree by february 6th to show up back to work in their office, they will be terminated and we will

therefore be downscaling our government. >> joining us now is the president of the national federation of federal employees, randy irwin. randy, thanks so much for being here with us this afternoon. i first just want to get kind of the top line, what you've heard from members about this surprise announcement i think they're surprised by it. >> i mean, i think we knew that trump wanted to downsize the federal workforce. this so-called doge. thing was talking about that at length. so we knew some of this stuff was coming. >> um. >> but, you know, they got this unique thing, this deferred resignation. um, you know, just very strange implementation of this doesn't make a lot of sense, but we are advising our members not to accept this. um, this is not a good deal for for federal workers. um, it's not really even an offer to, um, to not have to work until september 30th. you would resign, but you

would still have to work. so i don't know what kind of a deal that is. but, you know, also in the verbiage of what they kind of, you know, put out to everybody, not even a name on who this email is coming from. so, you know, what a strange thing. just hit, uh, you know reply. resign. i mean, who does things this way? um, but, you know, bottom line is it's a bad deal. we're telling them not to do it, and it's really irresponsible to run federal government that delivers such critical services to the american people in this manner. >> randy, can you give us an estimate of how many of your 110,000 members might take the offer, and what agencies do you think might be the most affected? >> i don't think we have any way of knowing right now. i wouldn't be surprised if 5% did or so like that. and what was your second question? >> just which agencies, which federal agencies do you might think, do you think might be most impacted? >> yeah. >> well, you know, they they did

this throughout the federal government. so that's that's incredible. uh, you know, about one third of the federal government is the department of defense, where we have about 50,000 members. um, you know, boy, what a what a hit to our, uh, you know, readiness in the military. if we see people taking resignations in mass, i mean, they talk about federal workers like they're not doing anything. you know, 87% of federal workers are spread throughout the country. they're not here in washington. they're doing critical services, keeping our military ready. the next biggest agency is department of veterans affairs. uh, 370 some thousand workers, nurses and doctors, people we represent that care for the american veteran. if these people leave in mass, we lose the ability to make good on our promise to care for the american veteran. and they're just putting out emails asking people to resign in mass. it is clear that they don't care about how our government functions and deliver delivers those services. >> is there concern that about the funding for these buyouts

absolutely. >> i mean, another reason that we are advising our members not to accept this deal is because there's a good chance they're going to get stiffed. uh, you know, they would essentially be signing away their rights, signing away their job. and then when the administration has to deliver on their promises, they will renege on that because congress never authorized it. so you don't you don't you don't, you know, make offers like this. this is not the way you run the federal government. and it's just highly irresponsible. and in the end, it's the american people that are that are going to suffer because of it. >> randy, i'm curious to get your reaction to not only the characterization that president trump had of folks who are working from home, essentially calling them unproductive, but also the demand in this letter that states that federal workers should be reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and striving for excellence in their daily work. what did you think of that? >> uh, you know, it's absolutely chilling. um, you know, we kind

of had, you know, federal employees swear an oath to uphold the constitution. and in a non bipartisan way, carry out carry out the critical duties, you know, in the federal service. uh, it's tremendous work they do. but for, you know, in this, in this kind of, um, deferred resignation offer that they put out, they said there's going to be some changes coming. there's a big fork in the road, and we are going to demand loyalty and trustworthiness. and if you don't, if you're not delivering on that, you will be targeted for retribution and removal. and, you know, this is this. i've never seen anything like this. and people really need to understand that, uh, independent civil service that carries out, uh, you know, the laws of this country is absolute, a critical pillar to our democracy. and, you know, if if congress allows this to continue, if, you know, if

they're, you know, if they are going to just like, antagonize workers and, and break the law and do the things that it's clear that they're doing and some of the things we know they're going to do, they haven't even done yet. but we saw it in project 2025 and things like that, or they did it in the previous administration. but, you know, we can't go down this road. it's a critical pillar of our democracy to have a civil service that works for the american people. and they are trying to tear that down. they're trying to do it right now, and people should be in the streets mad about it. >> all right, randy irwin, we'll leave it there. thank you very much for your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> we have some breaking news to share with you. former new jersey democratic senator bob menendez, sentenced by a federal judge to 11 years in prison. >> this comes after his conviction last year on bribery and corruption charges. cnn's kara scannell was in court for the sentencing. she's been tracking this story throughout. kara, take us through what you saw. what was the former senator's reaction so the.

>> former senator did not betray any emotional reaction when. >> the judge. >> handed down that sentence. >> of 11 years. but he did address the court before the judge. >> did issue the sentence. >> and during. >> that time, menendez told the judge that he was standing before him as a chastened man. he said that every day i'm awake is a punishment. i lost everything i ever cared about, at most. at various times he became choked up, having to stop when he was speaking, talking about the ways he had helped certain constituents over the years and the achievements that he had achieved for not only himself, but the hispanic community. he said through his election. but as the prosecutors had said to the judge that at some point menendez had turned that public service into service for himself. and as the judge handed down this 11 year sentence, he said, you've done a great deal of good. somewhere along the way, you lost your way. you're working for the public good, became working for your good. the public cannot be led to believe that you can get away with bribery, fraud and betraying his voters, his constituents. so a big sentence here. prosecutors had been

asking for at least 15 years. menendez initially came into court saying he wanted no time and just to do community service. but even they acknowledged, after seeing the sentences of other co-defendants, they had asked the judge for less than eight years. judge finding 11 years in prison for senator menendez boris sanchez. >> all right, that breaking news for us. kara scannell, thank you very much for that and stay with cnn. will be right back. >> meet oscar and olive. >> he's part terrier. >> she's part tabby. >> and they're both partners in crime. meet the new bissell crosswave part. do it all cleaner, part crimestopper bissell a new breed of clean. >> i'm a forgotten subscription. >> poor guy. >> signed up for my free trial a year ago. i forgot to cancel. now he pays me $18 every month. it's awesome. >> don't let this happen to you. download rocket money today. >> if you're living with diabetes, i'll tell you the same thing i tell my patients getting on dexcom g7 is one of

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regain his lunch break. try now for free. visit otter.ai or download the app. >> follow the trump confirmation hearings, follow the facts. follow cnn. >> nasa has remained insistent that these folks are not stuck, and yet their space mission was only supposed to last a week. butch wilmore and suni williams have been there since june. >> longer than. >> a week. longer than a week because of an issue with their spacecraft. and apparently president trump says that he's had enough. >> take a look at this exchange between trump and elon musk. trump tells musk to, quote, go get them. musk replies to trump, telling him he'll bring them home. but in the most recent delay, it was his own company,

spacex, that delayed the astronauts planned return. back in december, with musk's company saying it needed more time. joining us now is former nasa astronaut leroy chiao. leroy, great to have you here with us. thanks so much. the plan by nasa has clearly been delayed several times. the vehicle to bring them home is docked at the space station. walk us through the complications here. >> well, sure. i mean, the next crew to launch, crew ten is going to be launching on a brand new dragon spacecraft built by spacex. and so it's taking a few more extra weeks to go through testing, final testing, and mission assurance. and that's being done jointly by nasa and spacex. crew. crew nine, which sonny and butch became a part of after their ride home wasn't going to make it. they are waiting to come down. of course, normally we would launch crew ten and they would spend about a week together before crew nine came back, but they could come back earlier. their spacecraft is ready to go. it serves as a

lifeboat during their mission. and so if something happens or if they're told to, they can easily get into that vehicle and come down very quickly. >> leroy, i wonder whether the biden administration could have done more to get them down, because that's who donald trump and elon musk are blaming for them being up there. >> well, the situation is that, you know, it kind of made sense once things evolved. and it was clear the starliner should not be used to carry them back. it was decided that they would join the next crew. right. that was about to launch. and so that's why two members of that crew were removed. they were already up there. and then it was decided that they would stay for the entire mission duration. however, they could have come down earlier. it really what happens is if they come down early is they would disrupt the workflow aboard the station, because now you would leave one american on board and you would have three americans come back with a russian. four people coming down on that spacecraft. and if that's the decision that will be made, then, you know,

some research will be deferred or delayed. and, you know, we're at this point, we're near the end of the mission. so coming back a couple months early shouldn't be a huge, huge impact if that's what happens. >> and just quickly before you go, look, they've been up there since june. i know we've talked before. you said they can handle this, but at a certain point it is probably feels like it's time to come home. >> well, you know, there's no question certainly personal and perhaps future professional plans were disrupted by this unexpected delay. you know, 7 to 10 days turned into 7 or 8 months. right. and so i'm sure part of them is looking forward to maybe coming home a little early. but at the same time, they're consummate professionals and they're ready to stay up there and finish all the work. >> we look forward to welcoming welcoming them back. >> yeah, i hope they didn't have to keep flipping their underwear inside and out. laundry in space, i hope. leroy chiao, thank you so much. >> yeah, i don't know how that works afloat while you do that. >> let's save that conversation for the lead with jake tapper, which starts right