our coverage. the news continues right here on cnn. >> well, we're going. >> all right. i'm erin burnett, live from reagan national airport. investigators are. searching for answers. we are learning tonight that one air traffic controller was doing two jobs at the time of the deadly mid-air collision. could that have contributed to the deadliest plane crash on american soil in nearly 24 years? and also this hour, we're going to take you inside a flight simulator to demonstrate what may have been going on inside that cockpit. as the passenger jet approached the runway just behind us. and the 67 victims, including world champion figure skaters, coaches, aspiring skaters in a tragic case of deja vu. the director of the boston skating club, who lost six members of his community, is our guest tonight. let's go out front. and good evening. i'm erin burnett, and welcome to this special edition of out front. we are live from reagan national airport in washington, d.c., and

we are following the breaking news after the deadly mid-air collision between an american airlines jet and an army helicopter, the deadliest u.s. aviation crash in nearly 24 years. so right behind me, as you can see, the potomac river and right across that river coming in that final few minutes final, just looking at the runway, maybe for some passengers, that is when it happened right there. and all day they have been searching those icy waters for the 67 passengers and crew of the two aircraft, everyone is presumed to be dead. so far, they have found more than 40 bodies recovered. those. we are just learning that crews have also recovered one of the data recorders from the plane behind us, and this is key to determining what went wrong. almost 24 hours ago. 24 hours ago, everyone was on that plane coming in alive, thinking it would soon be landing. we're learning. at the time of the crash, one air traffic controller was juggling two tower positions at the same time. as we understand it, that is a staffing situation that was

not normal. those are the exact words of a preliminary federal aviation administration internal report that we have now. and the administration also claiming that a, quote, elevation issue may have been at play. so in a moment, i'm going to speak to a former blackhawk pilot, brad bowman. he's flown obviously, blackhawk. that's what he flew. but also on that very same approach towards this airport, he has flown that and he says there are some key questions that need to be answered tonight, including whether the helicopter was flying at the right altitude. so he's going to be with us. what we do know right now is that that american airlines jet was coming in from from behind us on track to land on runway 33 here. landing time was 848. it collided with a blackhawk helicopter just a few hundred feet above the water, so close to landing. and we do have new details about the victims. who would have thought that they were just seconds away from touching down among them, several members of the u.s. figure skating community,

parents, the pilots, the flight attendants, 64 people, and more on them and who they are. this our danny freeman and pete muntean begin our coverage here with us tonight in washington. and, danny, i want to start with you. you're live inside the terminal. we're standing right outside where you are. there are so many questions tonight as planes are once again starting to take off and land here at the airport. what is the latest that you're learning? >> yeah, that's right. >> erin, there's still so many questions that we still have the latest though, as. >> you note, is. >> that the recovery. >> efforts they. >> have stopped for today. we'll get to a little bit. >> more of that. >> in just a little bit. but as you noted, i'm here in one of the terminals, the airport here back open. we've seen planes coming and going. the government of our country and our officials are telling us that flying is still safe. but that's all. while so many people are still trying to figure out what went so horribly wrong behind me yesterday evening. a massive investigation underway tonight

into exactly how wednesday's deadly airline collision could have happened. >> we're here to assure the american people that we are going to leave no stone unturned in this investigation. >> an air traffic control source telling cnn. there was just one air traffic controller working two different tower positions at the time of the mid-air crash. while the source says this is not uncommon, a preliminary federal aviation administration internal report said staffing was, quote, not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic. the national transportation safety board reiterated their investigation is just beginning. >> as part of any investigation, we look at the human, the machine and the environment, so we will look at all the humans that were involved in this accident. again, we will look at the aircraft, we will look at the helicopter, we will look at the environment in which they were operating in. that is part of that is standard in any part of our investigation.

>> american eagle flight 5342 took off from wichita, kansas, at 518 wednesday afternoon without issue. the regional jet, operated by psa airlines, is directed to land at washington's reagan national airport. runway 33. >> runway 33 cleared for landing. >> at the same time, a u.s. army blackhawk helicopter, callsign p.a.t. 2-5, was flying over the potomac on a routine training mission. the control tower told the helicopter to pass behind the jet. >> zubeidi sergey brin flight p.a.t. 2-5 happened shortly. pittsburgh has an aircraft in sight separation. >> but despite the blackhawk pilot acknowledging the plane ahead just before 8:50 p.m., the two collided in mid-air, resulting in a fireball. >> crash crash crash. this is layer three. >> so it was. >> somewhere around 8:50 p.m. >> i was. >> uh, in my living room when. >> i heard two. bang bang. >> around 8:50. >> p.m. >> it was loud. it was unusual. it was something you only hear

on video games on movies. something i have never experienced. >> hundreds of first responders now working nearly 24 hours to try to recover the victims in the icy potomac river. now, as of now, more than 40 bodies have been recovered from the potomac river behind me. that's according to cnn's gabe cohen. we also learned, as i noted, at the top, recovery efforts have stopped for today. that's due to daylight being gone due to challenging water conditions, and also because officials believe the majority of the victims that could be reached without moving debris on the ground have already been recovered at this point. but the officials behind us, erin, they're determined to not stop until they recover. everyone from the water. erin. avichay adraee. >> all right, danny, thank you very much. and pete muntean, our aviation correspondent who's been breaking developments on this story since it began horribly 24 hours ago. also, a pilot and flight instructor is with me, along with brad bowman. as i mentioned, former blackhawk

pilot who flew this same route. so, pete, i know that you have been talking to your sources all day and you know, you've been you've been up for 24 hours almost now working on this story. what is the latest you're learning about what might have happened? i mean, when you just look out here and anyone who's flown in this airport, i mean, you're in the final seconds. you see the potomac river, you know, you're ready to get your bags and get off the plane. >> this was seconds away from being a near miss, something we have seen so much of in 2023 and 2024. in fact, two near misses came under ntsb investigation here at reagan national airport. right now. it is so surreal as somebody who is here at national airport all the time doing live shots and reporting to see the police boats out in the water, still tonight, nearly 24 hours after this crash. what we're learning now is that there was a bit of a switch up in the control tower here at reagan national airport, where there was one controller working two positions simultaneously, meaning talking to the civilian

airliners coming in to land and taking off here. and also the helicopters that. >> traditionally be your civilian, your military. these would be delineated, distinguished jobs. >> as i understand it, it's typically split up among two people. but then when things get slow late in the evening, it's at the discretion of the supervisor in the tower to say, okay, we can combine this position into one. we can have one person do two jobs. this is something that will really be key for investigators as they begin to look into this, and no doubt they will want to talk to the controller who is in the tower. air traffic controllers are really stressed to the max right now. there is an incredible shortage of air traffic controllers nationwide, although we're told here there's not a particular shortage at national airport, 28 positions in total, 24 of them filled. although many controllers are working mandatory six day weeks on ten hour shifts. it is incredibly stressful job, and a lot of times fatigue has come into play into some of these incidents that we have seen in 2023 and 2024.

>> six days a week, ten hours a day is not okay. i think we can all just say that's unacceptable. brad, you've flown in, you've flown here, you've done this approach. you've probably been exactly where they were. so when you look out there over that water and you think, what happened? what what are you focusing on? >> you know. >> i served in the. >> 12th aviation battalion, the unit involved here for two years. i was a military officer in blackhawk, pilot there. i commanded charlie company, 12th aviation battalion. i found this flown this route too many times to count you before you proceed south along the river. you called reagan tower at key bridge. and you say. you say you're at key bridge. you don't proceed without their permission. you stare down your altitude and you're at 200ft, and you keep that 200ft plus or minus, you know, ten, 20ft. and so as this investigation proceeds, i'm going to really want to see what altitude was that blackhawk at. and if it was well above 200ft, that might have been a decisive explanation here. >> for the defense secretary is saying a mistake was made during routine training on that. he is referring to an elevation. >> issue and an aviator speak,

you know, altitude. what altitude were they at? meta. you know how far above the ground. >> you could be in the same place, as long as you're not at the same height. >> right? right. and so this is about deconfliction, as you know, it's a de-conflicting horizontally and vertically. and you keep the helicopters away from the aircraft landing here by, by altitude differences and keeping them apart. i had people in reagan tower say, speed up, slow down. do you see that aircraft go behind? >> so it's always close. >> well, i mean, it can be it often depending on the time of day. but we'd fly through here on a regular basis, day and night training, carrying generals, carrying members of congress. it's a very normal thing, and it's been around for decades, and it's worked safely during that time. until last night. we got to find out why it didn't, why it went wrong last night. fix it. so this never happens again. >> pete. there are incidents of close calls with helicopters at this airport. um, i know there's been two occasions where passenger planes had to take evasive measures. so this has obviously not happened before. there have been

near-misses, though, is the point, because of there being so many aircraft in this area. >> the airport is essentially pushed to the limit here. it is bursting at the seams here at reagan national airport, and something that will no doubt become a part of this conversation is the fact that congress and its faa reauthorization bill that passed last spring authorized more flights to come in and out of reagan national airport. and that's so symptomatic of an aviation system that is very. >> much was a new flight. i mean, relatively new flight. the wichita. >> we've heard from one of the senators in the briefing last night at about 1245, or this morning at 1245. and he said he lobbied for this flight. he lobbied congress so this flight could be in here. so this is something that so many people, i think are going to ask about now. and the other thing that's becoming a part of the conversation, and i'm just in a group chat with some of my buddies who are airline pilots, is they fly in and out of dca all the time, and they know about this helicopter route, this special corridor called route four, right on the eastern shore of the potomac, here on the southeast dc side. but it's very, very close, and it can be very perilously close to.

>> are they nervous? i mean, i don't mean to scare, but they're nervous. >> no, i mean, they know that they've been nervous before. and pilots get the switch up from controllers occasionally to land on runway three three. the auxiliary runway that's used here occasionally for smaller regional jets. and they know that's pretty close. and so it's in the back of their mind and they have it now at top of mind. >> i mean, you know, and you're watching these planes come in and out, you know, with a, with a pall over this airport, with this horrible loss. brad, just in terms of the crew on this and you talk about it, you did it too many times to count right here. right? this was a training mission. the instructor pilot had 1000 flight hours. copilot being evaluated, had about 500. is that a lot? is that can you put some context. >> around that? yeah, sure. so, you know, it sounds like you may have had a chief warrant. officer two cw two who was an instructor pilot, normally instructor pilots or cw threes or fours. so a somewhat. uh, younger instructor pilot with a respectable amount of hours. a, a commissioned officer, a captain with about 500 hours. these are, these are experienced

pilots and it was a check ride. i will say that on check rides, the climate in the cockpit changes a little bit. it's more formal. you know this. it can be more tense if you're the one being graded. you know. >> check ride. this person was getting tested. >> it was a language for a test. it's a test that you have once or twice a year. the instructor pilot will sometimes will put you into deliberately stressful situations to see how you respond. but in the end, the instructor pilot is responsible for the safety of that aircraft. >> all right. well, i appreciate both of you very much as we try to, you know, understand what happened, just the incredible tragedy and the loss of life. thank you both. senator chris van hollen joins us now. the democrat from maryland. and, senator, i know you've been speaking to investigators since this horrible crash, and this airport is obviously in your backyard as well. so what is the very latest that you are learning about what possibly, as they try to determine what went wrong, what happened here? >> so aaron, i'm hearing many of the same things you were just reporting, but nothing

definitive yet. which is why, of course we have to wait for the ntsb investigation to be completed. but all of the elements that you've been discussing are things that i'm discussing with my colleagues. but again, we are all waiting for ntsb, the ntsb. >> and i know, you know, we you heard brad and pete just talking about the congestion at the airport. and, you know, pete was talking about he's a pilot and many of the commercial pilots he knows we're talking about that. just how top of mind it is. and that there's there's, you know, real, real concern about this helicopter path and, and the, the congestion in this airspace. i know that you had vocally opposed a bill last year that added more flights to this airport. and at the time, you said, senator, the proposal flies in the face of known safety concerns. and as we were just talking about here with brad and pete, the wichita washington route had just been added last year, was one of the

new routes. is this is this something that you feared would happen? >> well, again, we have to wait to see what the ntsb says. but i have been very worried about the public safety issues at reagan national because of the congestion. this is why senator warner and senator kaine from virginia and i voted against that bill, because you're taking the most congested airport in the united states, one that already has the crowded airspace. you're talking about, and adding additional flights into that airport. this is an airport where the hovering time for airplanes, the amount of time they spend in the air before they can land, is the highest waiting time in the country. that's just one indicator of how congested this airport is. we had near misses last year. we've had near misses that you've been reporting on just the last couple of days. so yes, this airport is too

congested and president trump spoke today about the crash when he was talking about who was to blame. >> he mentioned democrats and die. let's just play part of what he said. senator, i want you to be able to respond. >> i put safety first. obama, biden and the democrats put policy first, and they put politics at a level that nobody's ever seen, because this was the lowest level. they put a big push to put diversity into the faa's program. >> so, senator, do you have a response to that? >> i do, aaron, i was watching that live, and i was absolutely appalled when those words came out of president trump's mouth, because we are in the middle of a national tragedy and a real tragedy for our region. and yet he decided to politicize it,

throwing out these theories with no basis in fact. in fact, he admitted that he had no basis for these claims. i think he owes the families who lost loved ones, and i think he owes the country an apology for taking this moment where we're trying to come together and figure it out and inserting gross politics. it was grotesque. >> senator van hollen, i appreciate your time. thank you very much, sir. >> thank you. aaron. >> and our breaking news coverage continues here from the site of this horrible tragedy. in terms of what actually happened in those final seconds, there, a flight simulator can be crucial insight, and we're going to take you inside one to see exactly what the pilots in that doomed jet may have experienced in those final seconds before the collision with the black hawk helicopter. >> you see how the. >> lights have. >> a bit of a twinkling effect. a lot of that can camouflage. other aircraft.

>> and i'm going to speak to the president of the national air traffic controllers association about cnn's reporting, that one controller you heard pete muntean reporting this was doing the job of two at the time of the crash. so just how widespread are staffing shortages at american airports right now? and the skating community in mourning? six of the victims in this crash connected to one skating club in boston. the person who runs that group is our guest. >> super man, the christopher reeve story sunday at eight on cnn. >> when it. >> comes to. >> family, i always. >> do what's best. my parents taught me that. that's why i called a place for mom. their personalized guidance was just what i needed to find. senior living for mom, and their advice is free to families, not just free. invaluable. our advisor gave us options based on our needs and budget, guiding us to the best decision. i never

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years. >> the ntsb tonight saying the plane that crashed just behind us on the other side of the potomac had, quote, very quick, rapid impact. no slides deployed, which is a crucial detail. it means the pilots likely had very little warning, if any, that they were about to collide with that black hawk helicopter. now the plane was seconds away from landing. just to emphasize that you can feel it standing where i am. but to show you on the map, that's how close it was to the runway. so just looking, you know, behind us, you know, it's just the width of the potomac river. that's it. and then there's the runway. so in those literal final seconds. so in the in that moment, what actually happened? jason carroll got access to a cockpit simulator like the one that would have been inside that american airlines jet which crashed. jason. >> aaron i'm here with erin murphy. he's a commercial pilot. he's also a flight instructor.

he has logged hundreds of hours in flight simulators like the one that we are in right now. and what he's doing is he's put up on the simulation. this is what the approach to reagan airport would actually look like. now, this is not a crj 700. it's a 737. but it gives you an idea of what these pilots would be, or any pilot for that matter would be looking at on approach to reagan. correct? >> that's correct. >> um. >> so as. >> you can see out the window right now, the only way, you know, there's a river beneath us is because of the what we call a black hole. there is no definition. there are no lights. we know there's a bridge going across the river just ahead of us here. and that's how we know that's water. and of course, you know the area flying in here. as a pilot, you would recognize, you would know already that is a river. but that's what it looks like at night. >> when you're training these pilots on approach. what are some of the things that you specifically are telling them to look out for? >> number one, other traffic,

which unfortunately is a situation that just happened yesterday. um, looking out the window right now, for example, you see how the lights have a bit of a twinkling effect. a lot of that can camouflage other aircraft. the lights within that carpeting of lights, it can be very difficult to see other moving vehicles. and not only that, but then you have moving vehicles on the roadways in the lights. >> and so very difficult obviously, to see something like a black hawk helicopter 100%. >> yes. it would be very difficult to see an aircraft like that. this airport is a known hotspot in aviation. so coming into reagan, number one is traffic. even though you brief it and you discuss it and you're ready and you've you've got it sorted out. this is a perfect example of how sometimes things just unfold in a way that you really don't expect. >> even with experienced pilots. >> yes. and if you listen to some of the reports that cnn has done with some some other very

famous pilots that we have, they have said that they've been into this airport many, many times with helicopters flying underneath them. so it's a standard procedure. something was different last night. something happened that was different enough to bring the airplanes together. the aircraft came together. >> whenever there was an air traffic tragedy. lessons are learned. i'm wondering if you think what what lessons might be learned at this time. >> this is a procedural accident. we need to get deeper into the procedures of how the helicopters are flying up and down the river, and even how the aircraft are approaching, and doing that circling approach to land. on 33. we need to fine tune that. there's been lots of different situations at this airport. it's a hotspot in the aviation community. >> because of all the traffic. >> many pilots know this already and that's why you have specialized training to fly into that airport for exactly this reason and aaron, aviation experts like the one that you

just heard from, tell us that whenever something like this happens, history shows us you've got to stick to the facts, wait for the results of the investigation, wait for the preliminary findings to come out. >> once that happens, once that's released, then you make the determination. if more training needs to be made, if there needs to be some sort of change in the way that procedures are done, this is what needs to happen going forward. because sticking to the facts ultimately, is what could save lives in the future. aaron. >> yes, yes, i mean, it is it is. just so you know, you look behind jason and you see how close that plane was. you know, everyone on board was seconds away from landing. and then this horror happened. all right, jason, thank you very much. i want to bring in nick daniels now because he is the president of the national air traffic controllers association, which is now front and center in the investigation as it stands. so, nick, i really appreciate your time and our pete muntean, you

know, a pilot and reporter was is reporting that one air traffic controller was working two tower positions. the way he was describing it, nick, was that they would ordinarily be two people. one would be dealing with the military aircraft, the helicopter, and the other would be dealing with passenger jets. when when you hear this, that one person might have been doing two of those last night. does that surprise you? >> well good evening, aaron. appreciate you having us on. >> i hate. >> that it's under these circumstances. i first want to say that we, the air traffic controllers, mourn with all the americans. we mourn with the entire aviation community, all the families that are going through the pain and suffering, especially those controllers on duty. because when something happens like this, it's not just to a few people. every air traffic controller feels this burden because your safety is our responsibility. if you fly in the american airspace, you we know that we have you and you have us each and every day. but specifically, i can't speak to the specifics since it's under investigation. currently, the combination of positions, but it

isn't unusual or uncommon for air traffic controllers to have a multitude of configurations. this is an extremely complex job that we do day in and day out with weather changes, with flow changes, and with airspace changes. each and every day we'll combine sectors. we'll combine sectors to ensure that we can maximize efficiency and safety all at the same time. so no, it's not uncommon for positions to be combined or combined at all okay. >> so then within that though, nick, let me just add this layer, which is that pete was reporting here in washington. he said, well, they're not that short staffed. there's 28 positions, 24 are full. but you know, when you're looking at four empty spots out of 20 with that sort of a job. >> they're trying to work out. the sounds that we're having okay. >> are you able to hear me, nick? no, it sounds like nick cannot hear me. okay. we have lost nick. um, and if we get him back, what i wanted to ask him

about was pete muntean reporting, which was that there were flight controllers here at dca were working six days, six days in a row. they were only getting one day off, and they were working ten hours a day on each of those shifts with the intensity of, of this job. so we'll see if we can get him back. but we're going to take a break. and when we come back, the victims, they have retrieved 40 bodies. and the horror of that, that these are bodies, these were human beings with lives that were just seconds away from continuing students and parents. world champion figure skaters, people coming just to washington. the director of the boston skating club, which lost six members of his community, is next. and we're also tonight going to speak to the official who oversaw the three soldiers killed in the blackhawk helicopter and talk about what might have been going on inside that chopper in the seconds before the crash. >> your life. >> is pretty smart. >> but when it's time to eat, suddenly you feel out.

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a helicopter collided here in washington have now been recovered. the victims come from states across the country. any one plane, you look around. who's there? well, on this plane, people from maryland, people from georgia, people from north carolina, and of course, from kansas, where the flight originated in wichita. and among the victims, 14 happened to be from the world of figure skating. they were coming back from an event. two world class champions, aspiring skaters, coaches, their parents. they were all on that flight. and ed lavandera is out front tonight in wichita with more. >> we just wanted to be here with each other. >> six members of. >> the skating club of boston died wednesday. olympic medalist nancy. >> kerrigan came together. >> with the boston skating community after the unimaginable tragedy. >> not sure how to process it. >> among the 67 victims of the deadly collision, two teenage figure skaters. spencer lane. >> would you please welcome to

the ice jinna han. >> and jinna han. >> we watched gina just grow up here from just a tiny little tyke into this amazingly mature 13 year old, and we talk a lot about the athletes, but i think we're going to miss their moms as much. just really good people. >> their mothers were also on the plane, along with two coaches. evgenia shishkova and vadim naumov from boston, seen here winning the 1994 world figure skating pairs championship. >> i really can't believe that it happened because i picture them right here the coaches always stood at that entrance. the skaters just flew all over the ice doing remarkable things, inspiring all of us. >> they were just a handful of a larger group of skaters on american eagle. flight 53. 42. >> 14 skaters.

>> returning home from the national development camp at wichita, kansas. put on by u.s. figure skating. were lost in the plane crash. >> the russian couple's son, maksim returned home on an earlier flight. just medaled at the u.s. men's figure skating championship over the weekend. an eerie silence at the wichita ice center, as the magnitude of the loss keeps growing. a mourner left a simple tribute on the bare ice days after an intense three day training took place here. >> there are some of my daughter's best friends. >> one of the crash victims was playing a video game with this man's ten year old daughter from the plane, just before the accident occurred. >> and she would always be there to talk to me. >> tragedy has struck this skating community before. in 1961, when the entire boston clubs team was killed in a plane crash heading to the world championships. other victims in wednesday's crash over the potomac river were three u.s. service members aboard the black hawk helicopter and four crew

members on the plane that left wichita, including american airlines flight attendant ian epstein, first officer samuel lilley and captain jonathan campos. >> this is a. >> terrible tragedy. >> that will. unite those. >> in washington, d.c. and wichita, kansas, forever. >> aaron, several city officials told us today that it was a huge deal for wichita to host the u.s. figure skating championship over this past weekend, and then for many people here to get the chance to see and be dazzled by some of the younger skaters that might have been olympians at one point, and all of that really kind of just drove home the emotion and the intensity that so many people have been feeling here. after learning of the tragic news in washington. aaron. >> it's just so beautiful when you know, you watch them skate to imagine that they are, that

they are not alive. it is it's it's hard to comprehend. ed, thank you very much. and doug zeghibe is with me now. you saw him briefly there. and ed's reporting the ceo and executive director of the skating club of boston. six of your community members are lost in this tragedy, doug. and, you know, words can't describe it. you stand here at an airport, you look behind that plane coming in, and those final seconds, they would have, you know, seen the water. it was just on the other side of the water, that runway. it is impossible to understand. you two skaters, two coaches, two parents all died in that crash. are you even able to to comprehend what happened and to accept that this has happened? doug. >> i think our. >> community and myself is just beginning to accept what happened. i have to be honest. we were following this through the night. in the morning, once we heard, wondering if there could be survivors of such.

>> a catastrophic. >> crash. hopeful, but certainly not confident. and then most of today has just been dealing with the reality that there were no survivors, certainly for the skating club of boston and the rest of the country with focus on this, on this plane. i think it is still sinking in for all of us. and i think it's going to take some time. >> i really can only imagine. um, you know, when you heard about a plane crash involving a flight from wichita to washington? you know, for many they might. you know, wichita would not be something that was familiar, but for you. right. you knew what was happening in wichita, right? that meant something to you? yes. did you know right away that. >> i had just come back. >> from wichita on. >> it? >> yes. >> we sent 18 kids to the u.s. championships in wichita. i was there for that. i came home on monday after the championships. we had 12 kids that we sent to this national development camp. and these are young kids. it was 12 kids and a parent and

coaches. we sent a large group in a in a twisted way. you could say, we're fortunate that it was only six that perished. um, but i hate to even say that, except we were fearing it would be 12 to 14 this morning, and i didn't know how to comprehend that. um, but this loss is still is still immense. >> no, i understand, as you say, it's a twisted way, but. but yet it could have been. we do have video, doug of jinna han. it's just so beautiful to watch her skating on the ice. and. and she was so young. i mean, what? just the grace and beauty. she just turned. 13. a little girl and then spencer lane 16 years old. these were such young people with everything in front. in front of them their whole lives. never mind the olympics or other things that skaters like this might have had. they were with their moms. christine brennan said. they called them

u.s. figure skating's future. you knew them. i mean, what what do you want everyone to know about them? i mean, their images and their skating will now live forever associated with this this tragedy and loss. but to you, they were just also young people. >> absolutely. these were young kids, i would say, mature beyond their age. it's hard to believe that jenna was only 13. um, her parents and jenna were members of the club for a while. we got to watch up, watch her grow up from a spindly little kid into this, you know, long, lithe, skating beauty at 13, which was just amazing. and i would i would say this to her parents like, i can't believe how much jenna has grown up these past two summers. a great competitor both on and off the ice, but incredibly kind. great sense of humor. but she took her skating very seriously. jenna really had plans to beat team usa and to

make the olympics. spencer, um, spencer was referred to as a firecracker. a very young, dynamic skater, he'd only been skating for 2 to 3 years, and his technical ability for that such a short time was incredible, almost unheard of. and to be, you know, three years in the sport, have all those triple jumps and to be doing triple triple combinations was just incredible. i think a lot of folks had their eyes on spencer. also, as the future of the sport. >> well, it is incredible to to watch them. um, although hard to comprehend that what happened to them. doug, i appreciate your taking the time. >> and. >> sharing them with us. thank you. >> absolutely. thank you. >> well, the so so in terms of what happened, obviously the investigation is is in full force right now, but the administration is talking specifically at this hour about night vision goggles and saying that they may have been at play

during the helicopters flight. so what technology was on that black hawk that would have alerted the crew to the passenger jet? right. and a situation where both would have been well aware that there could have been another aircraft. and there are so many theories about what could have specifically caused this deadly crash. miles o'brien, a pilot you may know him so many years covering the aircraft industry, has some ideas and he will be out front with me. >> on the assignment with audie cornish. listen, wherever you get your podcasts. >> i'm barbara. >> and i'm from saint joseph, michigan. i'm a retired school librarian. i'm also a library board trustee, a mother of two and a grandmother of two. about five years ago, i was working full time. i had an awful lot of things to take care of. i needed all the help i could get. i saw the commercials for prevagen. i started taking it and it helped. i was better able to take care of all those little details. people say to me, barbara, you don't miss a beat.

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already put blame on the military. >> for some reason. he had a helicopter that was at the same height, obviously when they hit, but pretty much the same height and going at an angle that was unbelievably bad. the people in the helicopter should have seen where they were going. >> the helicopter should have seen where they were going, he says. jonathan koziol is with me now, chief of staff for army military operations, also a former army aviator with nearly three decades of military flight experience. and jonathan, i appreciate your time and i'll ask you about what he said in a moment. but first, you do know the soldiers who. who they were. and you're not going to share their names because of concern for their families right now. and they're grieving and their loss. but you know, about who they were, the kinds of people that they were. what can you tell us about them? >> so first.

>> off, aaron, i really appreciate you letting me have the time here. and we really want to send our heartfelt condolences out to the family members of our fellow soldiers, and also to all the family members out there for the members that were killed in this accident. it's just terrible tragedy. uh, the crew in itself, a fantastic crew, very experienced at what they were doing. they were doing an evaluation on this flight to see. >> so it was basically like we were brad bowman, who was a former pilot, was describing it basically that someone was being tested for their ability to be at the controls. but the but the pilot pete muntean reporting had 1000 flight hours. >> yep, yep. he was the instructor pilot, very experienced, well thought of in their unit. um, actually had a couple of their soldiers here helping with the inspection. i mean, the investigation and just heartbreaking. what a great crew we lost today. >> so pete hegseth is mentioning that night vision goggles might

have been in play during this flight. i'm not exactly sure what that means, but could you explain how that would affect, you know, your view of things in the dark? >> right. so at night, obviously the night vision goggles will enhance your vision so you can see better. and we also allow our pilots to fly unaided. so without the goggles at night, and especially in this area is very bright. so you can see. so it was part of the crew. we don't know. we won't know until we have the. investigation complete. whether they were using them at this time. but i would expect especially on that route, it's dark over the water, so it would be easier for them to see stuff. >> with them. >> on, with them on. but we just wouldn't know. >> we don't know at this point. when you hear that one flight traffic controller was operating both positions, communicating with the military teams as well as the commercial, does that give you pause? >> no, no, that would be control measures. but, you know, i don't understand their policy

and how they operate the aircraft. >> but that doesn't give you a red flag or an alert. and i do want to give you a chance to respond to the president when he said, you heard that the pilot, the helicopter pilot, should have seen where they were going. >> yeah. well, i believe they were. they saw where they were going. it's just, you know, the question on altitudes now with this proximity to the airport, there are control measures. there was a route. it is an faa route that the aircraft can fly. and it just depends on if they had the reporting point, position, location and if they identified the aircraft. but we won't know this until the investigation. >> all right. well, i appreciate your time and thank you very much for for coming here. all right. and, you know, you heard trump there say that they should have seen where they were going. he has blamed others for this as well, including people with physical disabilities. it was an odd thing that he said earlier. miles o'brien, pilot who lost his left arm after an accident, is after this. >> one a next.

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mesothelioma. call 1-800-217-1487 now or visit us at fund.com. >> on rafael romo. >> at the georgia. >> state capitol. >> in atlanta, this is cnn., and we're continuing our breaking news coverage of the tragic midair collision of the passenger jet and that blackhawk helicopter approaching reagan national airport, where i am right now. >> so many are asking how this could have happened. outfront now is miles o'brien. and obviously, miles, you have spent a career covering this industry, covering tragedies in this industry, and you are a pilot yourself. so this investigation is in its early stages. it's honed in, obviously, on the elevation and the altitude of the helicopter, but we don't know what we don't know right now. what are your leading theories? from the information we do have.? >> something was happening in that cockpit of that black hawk.

>> helicopter, which may have. >> distracted the crew. perhaps as part of the training mission. >> perhaps they were having. >> difficulty with the night vision goggles. who knows? the cockpit voice recorder, which i'm pretty certain will be recovered and the data will come out of it, should shed a lot of light on what was happening, what distractions might have occurred. it is hard to see moving air traffic at night in a city with all those background lights, but that is still the responsibility of that crew to see and avoid traffic. and obviously that did not happen here. >> no, it didn't, and there was no time. i mean, as you said, the slides weren't deployed. there was no. at that point you're low enough to the ground texting. i mean, there was there was there was nothing. just just silence. and clearly so sudden. president trump has had blamed for this in several quarters. he had referenced dei initiatives. he also specifically referenced the faa hiring people with

severe disabilities. let me just play for you exactly what he said. miles. >> the faa is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems, and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency's website. can you imagine? >> sure, yes. >> so, miles, he then went on to specify that one of the disabilities he was referring to is missing extremities. now, this is something actually you know, about. you can speak to personally. you're a licensed pilot. you lost an arm in an accident. so i want to give you a chance to respond to that. >> yeah. i number one, aaron, let's not forget what it must be like to have lost a loved one. and hear this whole literally with your loved ones still underwater, hear it turned into this weird political thing. but as personally as someone who

was a pilot lost my arm and went through the process of getting recertified to fly, i can attest to you that i went through every hoop and got over every bar. an able bodied individual would, in order to be recertified, to fly. the faa simply does not forsake safety in order to include disabilities in the system. i am part of the aviation community because i persevered through that, and it's an affront to me and all other disabled people to allow that statement to come into play. so, um, it's unfortunate. and the context of a terrible tragedy relative to the tragedy these families face. i guess it's not as big a deal, but it is a gut punch to those of us who are disabled and aviators. >> yeah, and and incredible that you're able to speak to that personally. well, miles, i appreciate talking to you. and thank you very much.