the nlrb can get back to work as soon as possible. so we'll have to evaluate these this case, as it goes along. >> still focused on the mission? >> yes. >> tony wilcox, thank you so much. thank you. >> and hey, thank you for watching. anderson cooper 360 is next. >> tonight on 360. >> a federal. >> judge rules that members of the trump administration are defying his court order. as the as the president and vice president raised concerns that he might make a practice of it. we're keeping them honest. also tonight, breaking news, the justice department telling federal prosecutors to drop the bribery case against new york mayor eric adams and later the president talking about acquiring >> thing like they're getting

ready to defy federal court orders. and one judge today saying they already are. now, this is important because this judge's next step could be to try to hold members of the administration in contempt. and then the fear is, the president could simply tell the attorney general to order the u.s. marshals service, not to enforce the contempt citation. >> i mean, we are on the edge of a dark precipice where the rule of law doesn't exist, at least at the federal level. and that i don't think people fully understand that yet. >> that's conservative lawyer george conway laying out a scenario that would have seemed far fetched until recently, but it's taking on fresh significance given this judge's determination that the administration already is defying his orders and is accused in a second case involving suspended u.s. aid workers of also defying a court order. in this case, though, rhode island chief federal judge john mcconnell jr. has already made his determination and issued a warning in the form of a citation at the very top of

today's ruling, it reads, quote, persons who make private determinations of the law and refuse to obey an order generally risked criminal contempt, even if the order is ultimately ruled incorrect. and this is what he says. members of the trump administration are doing disobeying his temporary restraining order, which blocks the administration's freeze on disbursing federal grants already allocated by congress. now, judge mcconnell writes, the defendants received notice of the tro. the order is clear and unambiguous, and there are no impediments to the defendant's compliance with the order. the judge then orders the administration to immediately restore the frozen funding and any funding. pause and, quote, immediately take every step to effectuate the temporary restraining order. he does not, however, say what will happen if the defendant on the president's order simply says, no, make me which not even richard nixon did during watergate, but which this president's statement suggests is a possibility. here he is on radio, on a radio broadcast tonight. >> judges should be ruling. they

shouldn't be dictating what you're supposed to be doing. >> the president saying judges should be ruling, but somehow not saying anything in their rulings about what the people they're ruling on should do. here he is talking with fox news for a taped interview which aired last night. >> the day you're not allowed to look for theft and fraud, et cetera., then we don't have much of a country, so no judge should be, uh, no judge should, frankly be allowed to make that kind of a decision. >> this follows a tweet by vice president vance which reads, if a judge tried to tell a general how to conduct a military operation, that would be illegal if a judge tried to command the attorney general and how to use her discretion as a prosecutor, that's also illegal. judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power. well, in a moment, we'll talk to senator amy klobuchar, who sits on the senate judiciary committee. she joins us to weigh in on that. and there's plenty more to talk about, including this from four years ago. jd vance's advice to donald trump should he become president again, namely, quote, fire every civil servant in the administrative state, he said,

end quote, and then dare the courts to stop him. >> and when the courts, because you will get taken to court. and when the courts stop, you stand before the country like andrew jackson did and say the chief justice has made his ruling. now let him enforce it. >> well, that was jd vance in 2021. president jackson's declaration is believed to be apocryphal. on the other hand, trump's public statements on executive power superseding the court's they were made on camera and go back to his first term. >> i have an article two where i have the right to do whatever i want as president. >> when the president does it, it's not illegal. >> i'm just saying a president under article two, it's very strong. read it. do you have article two? read it. >> article two lays out the power of the executive branch, which are considerable and which only grew with the supreme court's ruling in the immunity case. united states v trump. what the president does not mention, though, is the responsibilities laid out in article two, including that he shall, quote, take care that the laws be faithfully executed, which you would think excludes defying court orders. and what

are the top members of the house and senate? both, both of them republicans make of this. well asked. off camera by cnn's manu raju whether the administration should comply with court orders, senate majority leader john thune merely said that the courts have got, quote, an important role to play. and house speaker johnson did not say once again, a lot to start off the week. kaitlan collins joins us from washington. so what, if anything, is the president signaling tonight about how he'll respond to these federal court orders? >> it's not clear yet. of course, the legal option here is to appeal this, anderson, and to continue with the legal recourse here. but the question is, is he adopting this strategy of what you're hearing there? what we are hearing from two of his top advisers, the vice president and elon musk, about potentially defying these orders. now, there is some nuance in what each of them is saying. and this is something that i've been hearing from my sources and from people all day, which is the difference here. and j.d. vance's tweet that he posted saying about, you know, generals being fired or the attorney generals using her discretion to, to prosecute who

the justice department believes should be prosecuted. what he said in that last sentence of that tweet where he said legitimate power there, the executive's legitimate power, that is the word that is, you know, underlined and emphasized here because when he argues that it is their legitimate power, he's saying, therefore, the judge does not have jurisdiction over this and cannot tell them what to do. what elon musk is saying is that this judge who put this freeze on, he and his aides being able to access this sensitive data, that the treasury department should be impeached for his ruling. now, those are two different things. jd vance is not that far behind elon musk there. but the question here is how the white house plans to handle this going forward and whether or not they are going to continue to just try to appeal this in the courts, maybe make it up to the supreme court, potentially within a matter of weeks for some of these matters, or if they are frustrated with the judiciary blocking what trump is trying to do via executive action with the federal government, what that next step is, it's not clear yet from the white house what they are going to do and what the strategy is

going to be here and whether or not they will continue to to simply appeal it. but trump tonight in a new interview, was also complaining about the judiciary getting in the way of what the executive branch is trying to do. >> and the president signed some executive orders in front of cameras today. and it was initially listed as a closed press. he didn't get any questions about these court cases during the photo op. did that surprise you? >> it is surprising because obviously this is the main story here in washington today, which is what is going to happen here, because trump has not really faced any resistance since he has retaken power just a few weeks ago, as he's been signing executive orders every single day. some of them smaller and less consequential to everyday americans. certainly some of them very impactful and carry a lot of weight. and as he's been going through that, really it is only the courts that we have seen start to step in, whether it comes to offering federal workers buyouts or trying to to overturn birthright citizenship, or as we are here when it comes to elon musk's and his employees purview and just how expansive it is and what this looks like

with all of these other matters and executive orders that he signed. that's the question here of what this is going to look like going forward, because trump has come into office emboldened in a way that he really has never been before, facing almost no resistance on capitol hill, certainly not to his cabinet nominees or from any republicans, not really anything from democrats, only from the judicial branch. is he facing any of those obstacles and challenges. the question is how he views that and his purview and how he can respond to that. certainly, we are seeing a lot of critics of this white house suggest that they are on the cusp of a constitutional crisis, depending on how they handle this. >> all right, caitlin, thanks. we'll see you at the top of the hour on the source. joining us now is senator amy klobuchar, democrat from minnesota, a member of the senate judiciary committee. senator, i want to talk to you about the cuts to public health research. but first, just regarding the president's statements. does it sound to you like he's preparing to defy court orders? >> he's making it sound like that. and we know in the past there have been court orders in his first presidency, for instance, on immigration and

other cases where they did follow the orders. so he likes to play a game. i think we all know that. but in the end, being held in contempt. and of course, this would go up through the courts to the highest court of the land. it's my understanding they are already appealing this to the first circuit. but in the end, and i know your legal experts have looked at this, there's a reason this judge made this order. congress made the decision to allocate these funds on a bipartisan basis. we passed a law that was signed into law. if they want to work with us on the next budget and on making decisions that make the government more efficient, we're glad to work with them. but right now, what they're doing is a unilateral power grab, and it's unconstitutional. and the thought that they are violating the law. and by the way, anderson, i happen to know that not everyone is still getting their funds, that some of them are frozen. some have asked me not even to say it because they don't want to be identified because they fear retaliation from this

administration in the future. so there is a reason that this judge again reminded them that they had to follow the order and let those funds and grants go to the recipients. so that's the case that will be going up to the first circuit. and yes, there's the power of contempt. there's also judges do have an inherent power of contempt to enforce it. it is rarely used because the justice department takes care of it. and the presidents comply with the law. but that is where we may be headed if they refuse to comply with the law. >> but but forcing it, what is that involving u.s. marshals through the justice department? >> let's wait to see, first of all, if in fact they're going to comply with this law when push comes to shove, because right now some of the money is going out through the grants. but it's my understanding that some of them isn't. and one of the things that is most important here is jd vance and donald trump know better. they know what the law is. they know

those supreme court justices. we know they know them. they appointed a good number of them. but the point is, the constitution is the constitution. and if they start running amok with this, we will be in a crisis. but i am not yet ready to say that because a tweet is not the same as failing to comply with the law and actually saying to a judge, no, you've held me in contempt and i'm still not going to release the funds. that is a whole different level of disdain for the constitution than simply doing a radio interview or a tweet, or saying something on fox news. >> a federal judge in boston today halted, at least temporarily, cuts. the administration ordered to funding for public health research. i know the order will only apply to 22 democrat led states that filed suit against the white house. your gop colleague susan senator susan collins said today she'll vote to confirm our f kennedy jr. as hhs secretary. she said that she extracted a pledge from him that he'll, quote, reexamine cuts to

public health. do you think rfk jr., if confirmed, is going to care what federal judges say he can and can't do? >> i would hope that he would. i have serious concerns about this nominee. i'm not supporting him because of his views on vaccines and other public health issues. but that aside, today was an example, anderson, of a victory when the state attorney generals and i will note it's democratic attorney generals. and right now, the important cancer trials and the like have only been funded, will only continue to be funded in the states that have the democratic ags. what this judge ordered was, hey, you two, you 22 states came before us and were willing to take on donald trump. so your funding continues until the hearing on february 21st. and i got to stress what this is. this is cancer trials. these are universities and doctors and researchers. a one mom wrote my office and said,

you know, three kids at home and this is her only hope, and she's doing better and better with these cancer trials. these are the kinds of things that we're hearing in our own states, and what they're basically doing. my view, and a lot of others is they want to fund this $2 trillion for the wealthy tax cut coming up over $2 trillion. they're looking for money under every corner. they don't care if it's your kid's cancer trials. they don't care if it's head start. they're going to look for that money and do it off of your back. and so one of the cases the attorney generals are making is that this is serious harm. they're winning. they're winning before trump judges. they are winning before judges appointed by democratic presidents. and this isn't a partisan thing. this is the rule of law. and our constitution is very clear that congress in article one were first before the executive branch has the power of the purse, and that's what they're looking at. and that's what this judge used to enforce the law and apply the law to the facts

before him. >> all right. senator klobuchar, thanks very much. i appreciate it. joining us now, former federal prosecutor and bestselling author jeffrey toobin. his latest book, out tomorrow, is the pardon the politics of presidential mercy. um, can you put this order from the federal judge in rhode island in perspective? >> it's it's important to separate this case from all the others, you know, all the other cases are about challenging whether the trump administration is doing the right thing, whether it's birthright citizenship or firing public employees. what's different about this rhode island case is that he has already ruled that the trump administration was wrong to withhold these funds, and now he's saying they are not obeying my order to restore the funding. and so the issue in this case, which is really more important than the underlying issues about whether the money should be paid or not, is whether a federal court order should be followed. you know, going back to 1803, in the famous case of marbury versus madison, the supreme court said

that it's the courts that ultimately decide that have the last word on what is constitutional and what not. it's not up to the executive. it's not up to congress. it's up to the courts. >> which is not what jd vance is. >> saying, which is exactly what he is not saying, which is saying that, you know, the the risk here is that the executive can just do do what he wants without regard to, to, to the constitution. and that is a situation we've never been in. i think you mentioned earlier, you know, when when the supreme court told richard nixon in 1974 to turn over the white house tapes, he didn't want to do it, but he did it because the supreme court told him to. the trump administration is appealing this order, which is certainly they have every right to do. but if the order stands and they defy it, we're in an area that we have literally never been in before. >> is there an enforcement mechanism in that case? >> you know, i'm going to give you a ringing answer of, i

don't know, because, yes, in theory, the answer is, you know, there is a contempt power that is enforceable by the united states marshals, where the united states marshals could go out and their usual job is to enforce contempt, whether it means making someone show up to court. that's how it usually runs. >> the u.s. marshals. >> the department of justice. do you think pam bondi is going to tell the marshals service to enforce an order against donald trump? and how does a court tell the president of the united states to, you know, to honor a, a, a judicial decision? i don't know how that would work. could they could he impose fines? he's certainly not going to lock up the president. i mean, but it just shows what an unprecedented situation this is when you have at least the possibility. and also if you listen to what the president and vice president are saying, it certainly suggests that it's a real possibility that they'll simply ignore what a court says. >> jeff, stay with us. i want to get jeff stake and some others

on this late word from federal prosecutors have just ordered to drop the the corruption case against new york's mayor, eric adams. we'll talk about that in a moment. also later, kara swisher on elon musk growing reach within the federal government and the confrontation brewing between him and the federal courts over some of his agenda. >> have i got news for you is back for another season. that's right. more games. >> oh, i know this. >> final answer points. >> more guests. >> how do you know everything? >> i'm smarter than you. >> more mayhem. >> she goes to diddy party. >> roy wood jr. amber ruffin and michael ian black are finding the funny in the week's biggest stories. we're going. >> to give you all four years of something to talk about. >> if we are live. >> have i got news for you returns saturday at nine on cnn and stream next day on max. >> what's up, castle nation? it's your number one broker with the best full service wealth management skills in the

biz. >> actually, i'm seeing something from schwab. >> uh oh. >> yeah. schwab lets you invest and trade on your. >> own, and if you want, they can even manage it for you. >> not to mention, schwab has a team of specialists for taxes, insurance, and estate planning, all with low fees. >> we're experiencing technical difficulties. >> uh, carl. schwab. >> schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. >> i'm howie mandel. the newest ambassador of skechers. funny story. how i became an ambassador. i went to the store and i lied and said i was an ambassador. do i get a discount? the owner called me and said, would you like to be an ambassador for skechers? and i said, yes, try skechers slip ins. >> my eyes, they're dry, uncomfortable looking for extra hydration. now there's blink nutrition. it works differently than drops. blink nutrition is a once daily supplement clinically proven to hydrate from within, helping your eyes produce more of their own tears to promote lasting, continuous relief. you'll feel day after day. try

blink neutral. here's a different way to support dry eyes blink neutral tears. >> gum problems could be the start of a domino effect. periodontics active gum repair breath freshener clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a toothpaste from periodontics, the gum experts. >> ontario, canada your third largest trading partner and number one export destination for 17 states. our economic partnership keeps millions of americans working. we're here right by your side. >> let the conclave begin. >> why do i feel like a cow being pressed by the farmer? >> the new york times raves. it's every cardinal for himself in hands down, the best picture of the year. afi hails rare as the film that endlessly entertains and is a stunning cinematic achievement. >> i understand the trick is to offend no one. >> and now conclave is nominated for eight academy awards,

including best picture of the year. >> let god's will be done. >> this year. have faith conclave, rated pg. >> a sleep number. bed is perfect for couples. the 360 smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side, and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of you and now save 50% on the new sleep number. limited edition smart bed shop a sleep number store near you. >> when winter season hits. emergency supports your immune system with so much more than vitamin c, be ready to fight dude, i really need a new phone. check out my new samsung galaxy s25 ultra. it's got galaxy ai. imagine this thing running on our superfast xfinity mobile network. and i also heard that it can do multiple things with a single command. —with google gemini. let me try it. add recipes with overripe bananas to my “dessert ideas” note. that's what you chose to ask it? i had other things planned. ask how to get up to one thousand dollars off the new samsung galaxy s25 ultra with xfinity mobile.

mesothelioma, call 1-800-217-1487 now or visit us at fund.com. >> cnn this morning with kasie hunt tomorrow at 5:00 eastern. >> more breaking news tonight. it landed just moments after we learned that the president had pardoned disgraced illinois governor rod blagojevich, who did time on federal corruption charges. i spoke with blagojevich several years ago, just after he'd been released, and he made quite a bunch of claims.

>> i am a political prisoner. i was put in prison for practicing. wait a minute. you're a political prisoner. >> nelson mandela was a political prisoner. political prisoners have no due process and are unjustly jailed. you had a jury convict you. you had appeals courts. look at your your sentencing and you even try. you even appeal to the supreme court twice. and they refused to hear you. so you're hardly a political prisoner. >> well, first of all, nelson mandela went to before a court. he was convicted in, in in a court of law. i had nearly eight years to read. >> books by a racist apartheid government. >> that's correct. >> and not a virtue. >> if you were to ask him. and i bet you if you were to ask nelson mandela whether he thought the process was fair back in the early 60s in south africa, he would say, what i'm saying today, i didn't know how corrupt the criminal justice system was until it did it to me. and that was a wake up call. >> well, the president, the interview went on for a long time. the president tonight called him, quote, a very fine

person. so now he's pardoned. a short time later, cnn obtained a memo sent by acting deputy attorney general emil bove instructing new york's southern district to dismiss corruption charges against new york's mayor, eric adams. his case was the first prosecution of a sitting mayor in new york's history. it was scheduled to go on trial this spring. jeff toobin is back also, along with his former federal prosecutor, jessica roth. she currently teaches at new york's cardozo school of law and cnn chief law enforcement intelligence analyst john miller, who was deputy commissioner of the nypd. and he served under mayor adams. so, jeff, is this surprising? >> this is one of the most bizarre situations i have. i have ever seen. i mean, here this guy is indicted and, you know, by a very respected office, he he makes complaints that he was politically targeted. >> right. he says because he complained about immigration under the biden administration, he was targeted. >> which there is absolutely no evidence of. and the justice department now under the new

trump administration, dismisses the case against him, but says, well, we don't know whether he's guilty or not, but we want him to fight crime. i mean, this is what happens in authoritarian. >> he's essentially they essentially are saying that this fighting these charges takes away from his ability to pursue help the trump administration with immigration. >> correct. and this is what happens in authoritarian countries that, you know, the rule of law is not applied equally. it's only applied to how the the leader wants it applied. and eric adams has ingratiated himself with the trump administration. and now he. >> gets he went to mar a lago. he went down to the inauguration. >> right. and that's not how the legal system is supposed to work. the, the especially when the justice department acknowledges that there that the case may well be legitimate. >> and jessica, i mean, how weird is it to have a directive from the leadership of the department of justice? >> it's extremely unusual to have the leadership of the department of justice reach out to a u.s. attorney's office and

tell them at this stage to drop a case. there may be consultation before a case is brought, but once it's been brought, it's generally left to the prosecutors who are handling the case to see it through its duration. so it's highly unusual. and as jeff said, particularly because of what's set forth in this highly unusual memo, which essentially says we're not taking any opinion on the merits of the case or the legal theories. that's not why we're directing you to drop the charges. it's because we want mayor adams to be able to pursue the president's immigration policies unfettered by worrying about this prosecution, and also because we think that the prosecution itself was in some ways politically tainted when it was brought from the outset. but the document reads, as a very political document, there's a citation and a footnote to something that president biden did, exchanging viktor bout with somebody else who had been prosecuted by the southern district of new york, who was released in a prisoner exchange under president biden. so there's a sense in which there's this sort of like laying out old political concerns with respect to the prior administration in a document that's supposed to be about the case of eric adams.

>> um, john mueller as a as a somebody who knows the history of new york. how weird is this in the history of new york? >> well, first of all, it's so shocking that there is literally nobody who didn't expect exactly this to happen. um, and we and we shouldn't pretend. in fact, i think you and i sat here in december and went through the theory of of what was coming, which came, which is that the justice department would probably move to dismiss it rather than pardon it based on the strength of the case, which they actually don't address in the memo. instead, they say it interfered with the mayor's ability to run the city. it makes reference to weaponization of government. >> which it says it cannot be ignored. that mayor adams criticized the prior administration's immigration policies before the charges were filed. >> and it cryptically talks about, you know, the recent actions of the former u.s. attorney damian williams, who brought the case, which is code for he's created a website that, for all intents and purposes, has the appearances of being some kind of early stage of a campaign website. and, you know,

they're accusing him of using this case to kind of jump start his career in politics. but again, only between the lines. so, um, as has already been stated here, the memo, which is usually justice department memos, are dry, legal and declarative. it's dripping with politics. and it is as it appears now. there are legitimate arguments about the strength of the case, the lack of a quid pro quo for the alleged bribe, which is the top count, and the timing of the case. um, but it sure is different. >> but but there's a way to challenge a court case, which is to go to court and tell the judge to dismiss the case. >> for a motion. a motion was made by the defense, which was a very compelling. >> it was a very good motion. >> and it was dismissed by the judge. so for the prosecutor to be directed basically to go make a motion against their interests is really strange. and remember,

it's coming from emil bove. this is the same individual who is the acting deputy attorney general who comes right from the very same office that brought this case. but who was donald trump's criminal lawyer in some of these matters, jessica? >> i mean, could charges be brought at the state level? >> i'd have to think about what those would look like. i mean, these are charges that were brought under federal statutes based on a federal statute that governs bribery. when somebody is working for. if it's particular to to organizations and cities that receive a certain amount of federal funds, it's a wire fraud statute. so we'd have to look and see what state theories might be available. >> it seems unlikely. yeah. um, very. yeah, i appreciate it. thank you. up next, more on elon musk clash with the court system. tech journalist kara swisher joins us for that. plus more breaking news tonight, this time involving the release of israeli hostages and what president trump said to hamas a short time ago. my conversation with rachel goldberg next.

>> the boeing 747 has crashed in the lockerbie area. >> trying to find out the why of it became everything. >> nothing is what it seems in the lockerbie story. >> lockerbie, the bombing. >> of pan am flight 103. sunday at 9:00 on cnn. >> the itch and rash of moderate to severe eczema disrupts my skin night and day. despite treatment, it's still not under control. but now i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema fast. some taking rinvoq felt significant itch relief as early as two days, and some achieve dramatic skin clearance as early as two weeks. many saw clear or almost clear skin. >> rinvoq can lower ability to fight infections before treatment tests for tb and do blood work. serious infections, blood clots some fatal cancers including lymphoma and skin. serious allergic reactions, gi tears, death, heart attack and stroke occurred. cv event risk increases in age 50 plus with a heart disease risk factor. tell

your doctor if you've had these events. infection, hep b or c smoked are pregnant or planning. don't take if allergic or have an infection. >> disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your dermatologist about rinvoq. >> learn how abbvie can help you save. >> after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day. businesses are wondering, what should we do? i'm thinking. >> company wide power now. >> anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll. adp designs for the next anything. >> hi, susan, honey. yeah, i respect that, but that cough looks pretty bad. try this. robitussin. honey. >> the real honey you love. plus the powerful cough relief you need. >> mind if i root through your trash? >> robitussin. the only brand with true source certified. honey. >> hey, guys, there's a change in the air. two changes. two changes. >> the three row luxury tt. because everyone should feel like the center of the universe.

>> maya knows how quality care can bring out a smile, but it's been a few dog years since she was able to enjoy a smile of her own. good thing aspen dental offers affordable, complete care all in one place. and new patients without insurance get $29 exams and x-rays, plus 20% off treatment plans for everyone. loving our patients unconditionally. it's one more way. aspen dental is in your corner. >> come and get your love. >> from recent grads to rising. >> stars to living legends. >> you got this. >> thank you. vanguard retirement. >> solutions 50 years of helping investors be well on their way to their financial goals. >> a sleep number smart bed is perfect for couples. the climate 360 smart bed is the only bed that cools and warms on each side, and all our smart beds adjust the firmness for each of

at just 4.99 a month. call

1-877-538-3882 or. >> visit homeserve. com. >> closed captioning brought to you by book.com. >> if you or a loved one have mesothelioma, we'll send you a free book to answer questions you may have. call now and we'll come to you. >> 800 821 4000. >> revisiting our top story, the collision course. the trump administration appears to be on with federal courts, including elon musk, among the many cases won for the second time now delays the deadline for those so-called buyout offers that went out to federal workers. the deal is very similar to one that elon musk offered when he took over twitter. joining us now, someone who has a long history reporting on musk. kara swisher is back, cohost of the pivot podcast and author of burn book a tech love story. i'm not sure it's still a love story, but what do you make? what do you make of the problems that president trump and musk are running into in federal court so far? because, i mean, is musk accustomed to being told he can't do something? >> yes he is. he does it all the time. whether he's with the sec or different things. he's always

told it and he takes it to to the mat. he really does. he's always in litigation with, you know, whatever government agency or regulatory agency. he often crosses lines. he did it in san francisco. he's done it with the severance around twitter people. he did it with a sign in san francisco. he does it with his his spacex stuff. this is common for him to just roll right across courts and just keep going. >> the theory, i guess being that you do what you want to do and it just takes a while for things to go through the court system. it's expensive. he has a lot of money. he can fight it for as long as possible. >> yes, that's correct. and i think he's feeling the same way. here is what once by the time they stop us, it will be too late. essentially. i think that's the attitude is let's, you know, let's hardcore it through. i mean, you've heard that language from people like this. it's hardcore. it's we move fast and we break things. and that's sort of the attitude here. >> on social media. he attacked the judge who temporarily blocked doge from accessing the treasury department payment system. he's also gotten negative headlines about the

people who are working for him. it seems like. i mean, does he relish drama? is is this is this an ongoing is this going back for for a long time? >> what do you think? i mean, you know, in provincetown in the summer has less drama than elon musk. i don't know what to say. sorry, but you know what i mean. he loves this. he loves whether it's everybody is. you know, he recently called scott galloway a cruel, mean and i don't know, something else. you know, he called the reporter who wrote on it cruel and disgusting. you know, who does this remind you of? someone attacking a judge. that someone else does that quite a bit. so it's one. it's one of his, you know, one of the arrows in his quiver is to attack people personally or to accuse them of things. and, you know, it's just he loves drama. he loves attention. he loves people looking at him. >> does he like does he want to be liked ultimately? i mean, he sort of has this persona of like, he doesn't care what people think. do you think that's true? yeah. >> no, i think that's anyone who is like that cares deeply what

people think. you know, i think he likes the attention. he likes making trouble. he when we were speaking, he used to laugh about it. what shall i do today? that's naughty. so that people will. you know, he did that once before an event i had with him where i interviewed him, and he was trying to figure out what joke to tell about the shape of jeff bezos rockets. and he thought that was hysterical. and then on stage, he did just that. now, fine by me. but you know, he likes to do that. he likes to be, you know, troublemaking and seen that way. so it's his preference. >> so also today we learned that musk is trying to lead a bid to take control of chatgpt's parent company, openai, for nearly $100 billion. openai, run by sam altman, who says he's not interested in musks offer. they had a tweet exchange. i think musk ended up calling him a swindler. >> swindler. he's done that several times already. >> yeah, and they've clashed before. president trump recently highlighted altman at this white house event and going to give the who said he's going to give the economy a major boost is

what is going to happen with this, because, i mean, obviously, musk was involved with openai from the get go early on. >> he was they were very close. and actually, what happened is he tried to take it over. and then when they rebuffed his kind offer, he stormed out. and then he's been mad since they've been he's been they've been lapping his efforts for a long time. he was early to this stuff. let me be clear. but some of these excuses today that he wants to help humanity, these people don't invest $100 billion to help humanity. i'm sorry. especially it's the people that are doing the investing. if you look at the list, they enjoy profits quite a bit. and, you know, he's just he's in litigation and this is part of the litigation efforts. it's the same lawyers. these lawyers have been pressing on what they're doing. it's very complex, but they're changing it from a nonprofit into a for profit corporation. and he's trying to prevent that, even though there are emails showing that he wanted to do it himself. and so he's trying to sort of cosplay the hero of safety, open source a.i., but he doesn't do

that himself with his own company. and so, you know, it's just he wants this is part of the litigation and it's unlikely you saw sam's response, which was very funny. i'll offer to buy twitter for 9.74 billion, precisely. microsoft's not even commenting. i think they think this is a clownish legal move from their perspective. >> just in terms of of what happens here. i mean, the people that that musk is working with, do you know, do you know any of these people? i mean, wired is doing has been doing a lot of, you know, remarkable reporting on on some of them. >> i don't know, all the high school, just recently high school graduated engineers. i'm sorry, i just don't. but they're young people. he wants to he wants young people because he'll do what he says and they revere him probably on some level. and so he wants to have people he can really, you know, get going and working hard, i suspect a slightly older engineer would have some questions, although he has those and he's got some very sophisticated lawyers. but everything he does, whether it's the sam altman, this whole openai thing, he's doing it to

slow them down because instead of just competing, he wants to slow them down by litigation. this is very familiar to him. same thing with these, these these young men that are doing this, they may be violating. we don't know. we just don't know. and he wants to keep it that way. and so he will do anything to slow people down. and he has numerous taxes, taxes to do so. and so he'll just keep doing. these are among his many tricks. not paying people, waiting for people to sue him using the court system, attacking people personally. this is the same, you know, just like trump has his bag of tricks, this is his bag of tricks. >> yeah, very similar tricks. >> and let me say this sam altman thing, i think scott galloway had the best line tomorrow in our podcast. he said it's a rich guy's version of invading greenland. that's really what it is. so although greenland is much more valuable. >> yeah, well, we're about to we'll have a story from greenland coming up in a second. kara swisher it's great to talk to you as always. thank you. >> all right. >> thank you. coming up, more breaking news. president trump's threat to hamas. plus, i'll talk about the fate of the remaining israeli hostages with

the mother of one hostage who was murdered in in captivity. rachel goldberg joins me next and later. we know the president wants greenland. we were just talking about that. what does greenland want? donie o'sullivan went there to find out. >> have i got news for you? is back for another season. roy wood jr., amber ruffin and michael ian black are finding the funny in the week's biggest stories. >> we're going to give you all four years of something to talk about. >> if we are live. >> have i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn. >> got one more antoine. >> with usps ground advantage. it's like you're with us every step of the way cool right on to. >> stay in the know from your dock to their door.

>> sheldon, we think you might be. >> overreacting to our ads for no shells. pistachios. >> ditch the shells. >> okay. >> strip what? >> you ditch your shells. >> okay. >> yeah. that's fine. guys, i take it back. you want the show? no. you got the show. >> gum problems could be the start of a domino effect. periodontics, active gum repair, breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a toothpaste from periodontics. the gum experts. >> to all those who never give a second thought to being the first ones in. thank you, servpro, proud supporter of our nation's first responders. >> this is what joint pain looks like when you keep moving with aleve. just one aleve 12 hours of uninterrupted joint pain relief. aleve strength to last

12 hours. >> palmer's lotion that i've used since i was a little girl and now it's a part of my son's life to. >> palmer's helps me take control of my skin. >> i'm in a long term relationship with palmer's. i might as well put a ring on it. palmer's as seen on every body. >> you know what leaf filter? we're proud to say? we have millions of satisfied customers. hey, there's one right now. and another leaf filter stops. needles, acorns, leaves and more. no louvers, no openings, no where for debris to get in at all. i guess what i'd like that it's only natural to have fans. apparently a lot of fans. apparently a whole, whole whole lot of fans. call 833 leaf filter or visit leaf filter.com. >> if you have heart failure or chronic kidney disease, pozega can help you keep living life because there are places you'd like to be. serious. side effects include increased ketones in blood or you're in,

and bacterial infection between the and genitals, both of which may be fatal. severe allergic reactions. dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. stop taking and tell your doctor right away if you have nausea, vomiting, stomach pain, tiredness, rash, swelling, trouble breathing or swallowing. tell your doctor about lightheadedness, weakness, fever, pain, tenderness, redness or swelling between the and genitals. ask your doctor about vasica today. >> dear doctor k, i used to think i was never meant to be beautiful. i was teased because of my teeth. i didn't like the person looking back at me in the mirror. i never thought i could afford dental implants. you and your team work within my budget and help me feel confident in the plan we made together. i love my new smile. thank you. >> congratulations! you have a beautiful soul, cynthia. >> finance the. >> smile you want for as low as 148 a month per arch. schedule a

free consultation. >> tap into etsy for original and affordable home and style pieces like lighting under $150 to brighten your vibe for under $100, put your best look forward with vintage jackets or pick up custom shelving for under 50 to make space without emptying your pockets, and get cozy with linen robes for 75 or. >> less. >> for affordable home and style finds to help you welcome whatever's next. etsy has it. >> i'm donie o'sullivan. >> in greenland. >> and this is cnn. >> breaking news. a short time ago, president trump had this warning for hamas. if it follows through with its threat to postpone the next hostage exchange over what it says are israeli violations. >> well, i would say this, and i'm going to let that be because that's israel's decision. but as far as i'm concerned, if all of the hostages aren't returned by saturday at 12:00, i think it's an appropriate time. i would say

cancel it and all bets are off and let hell break out. >> well, the next hostage release is scheduled for saturday, but it comes at a particularly fraught moment of the deal. after these images of the three most recent hostages from the october 7th attack were released, all looking incredibly frail and thin, ohad ben ami eli sharabi and or levy are back with family in reaction to their condition. the parents of hersh goldberg polin and american-israeli hostage killed by hamas, took to instagram and made a direct appeal to president trump and his top envoy. hirsh's mom rachel goldberg, asked them to try to speed the process along. levi, one of the hostages released saturday, sheltered in the same concrete bunker as her son and both were captured at the same time. i spoke to rachel goldberg just before air reporter rachel just days ago, you and john made a plea to president trump and the new mideast envoy, steve witkoff to to speed up the

process or to try and speed up the process and essentially get the rest of the hostages home as quickly as possible. um, do you think that's do you think that's actually possible? >> i think anything is possible. >> and, you know. >> we saw these three men. released on. >> saturday. and that really just it was very difficult to see what they. >> looked like. and, and, anderson, i think. >> that you. >> realize that. >> or levy. >> who was one. >> of the hostages. >> released, we know about or because of the video that you shared with us or elia. alone and hirsch were all kidnaped together. they are all in that video. they are all on the same pickup truck, and we know that they were held together, at least for a little bit. the four of them. and we know that the three of them were still being held together until extremely recently. and we know that the conditions are horrific.

>> my understanding is after word got out that he was unaware that hirsch had not made it out, that hirsch had been killed correct. >> when he came out on saturday, one of the first questions that he asked michael his brother, was, how is hirsch doing? and that was after, um, he had been told that his wife, einav, had been killed in the bomb shelter. he he did not know that, um, you know, they have a three year old son who's been basically, um, like an orphan for the last 400. and what was 91 days. um, when his son saw him, he hugged his father and he said, daddy, it took you such a long time to come home because they had kept telling him, we're looking for him. we're looking for him, or can take all the time that he needs to be surrounded by his family and his community and his

friends and his loved ones. and when he is ready, if he's ready ever to talk with us and share what he knows about hirsch, obviously we would be open to hearing that, but we're very respectful of his healing process, and that's not something that we need right now. >> when you see the before and after photos of the hostages, as you were talking about who were just released, and we're putting it now, i mean, it is it's obviously it's just horrific to see. i know hirsch i mean, hirsch was six feet. i think he was 115 pounds at the end. correct. >> um, i mean, this is what what's hard for us is that people are saying, oh, my gosh, look at these three men. and it is that is horrific. i mean, eli sharabi is unrecognizable completely. and we might and i should mention he's he's the gentleman who's all the way on

the, on the right side of the screen. he did not know when he was on the stage before his release. hamas said to him, you're going home to your wife and daughters. he was married with two teenage girls and they had been killed on october 7th. so when he walked into the hospital on saturday expecting to see his wife and his two daughters, he was greeted by other people who had to tell him that they had been killed already for over a year and four months. um, and. they what? what's hard for john and me and the families that hirsch was killed with? you know, the families of the people with whom hirsch was killed. is that exactly what you're saying? when they were brought out at the very end of august, they were all emaciated skeletons who were filthy. they had the

coroner, uh. assessed that they had not been bathed in months. they were bullet ridden and they were very bloody, but they were completely emaciated. and we were screaming our heads off as much as we could to try to tell the world this is what the situation is. >> you believe that the administration and the u.s. now, the trump administration. could it that there's there's a chance of of just trying to accelerate everything. and that bottom line still, that is your message. the time is now to to just try to get everybody out. >> i don't think it benefits anyone to have this this. stretch any more than it's already stretched. and now that we see that, i don't think that those hostages can can last more than a few days or a week. i don't see them being able if this is the most healthy ones, are being released first. how

are other hostages going to survive if this is what the situation is? >> well, rachel goldberg, thank you so much for talking to us. >> well, thank you for keeping this, you know, really highlighted. and remember, we have 76 more hostages, including six americans who are still being held. and we really feel strongly that every single person has got to come home. and all of the suffering in this region has got to stop. >> rachel goldberg still ahead, the president's interest in taking over greenland donie o'sullivan travels there to see if any greenlanders he finds support the trump plan. we'll be right back. >> lockerbie premieres. >> sunday at nine on cnn. >> an msc cruise isn't just a vacation, it's a holiday full of european. >> style and all the things americans love to come on bloom. >> there are a ton of football

matches. >> games, football games. are you ready for some adrenaline? >> i was. >> born ready. >> how high. >> is that? so high. >> privacy. >> privacy. gelato. froyo. architecture. architecture. that is a big hat. it's american, of course it's big. what a vacation. don't you mean holiday? my bad. we should stop now. >> yeah. >> knock, knock. number one broker here for the number one hit maker. >> thanks for swinging by, carl. >> no problem. so, what are all those for? >> this helps me adjust. >> the base. add more guitar, maybe some drums. >> wow, so many choices. >> yeah. >> like schwab. i can get full service wealth management advice, invest on my own and trade on thinkorswim. >> you know, carl is the only frontman you need. >> oh i got to take this carl. >> schwab. >> schwab have a choice in how you invest with schwab. >> for generations this ally to the north has been by your side. ontario, canada a partner connected by shared history,

shared values and a shared vision for what we can achieve together, stable and secure when the world around us isn't. you can rely on ontario for energy to power your growing economy and for the critical minerals crucial to new technologies. ontario is your third largest trading partner, and the number one export destination for 17 states. our long standing economic partnership keeps millions of americans working in a changing world. it's time to bring jobs back home and build together more workers, more trade, more prosperity, more security. for generations, this ally to the north has been here, and for generations more. we'll still be here, right by your side. >> duncan. hello, handsome. how is the kid, anyway? >> he did his first five dives with me. he's solid. >> he just lost power. >> press.

>> get out. >> right now. >> he's gone. >> no, he's not. >> i got an idea. incoming! swell diver, where are you? >> last breath rated pg 13. >> only in. >> theaters february 28th. and., doug. >> you'll be back. >> emus can't help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. you're just a flightless bird. >> no. >> he's a dreamer. >> frank. >> jadee moncur up. >> and doug. >> well, i'll be. that bird do'r

better science and better results. >> look for clinical grade berberine and other doctor's preferred products in stores near you. >> for nations. >> facing off. for what? for friend. >> and foe. >> for teammates. >> turned rivals.

>> for the. >> frozen ponds of sweden and scottsdale. >> we're still believing. >> in miracles. >> lionel. >> 30 kroner. for the maple leafs. for the entire world to see. >> four nations. >> facing off in a better. land. >> president trump's interest in acquiring greenland is being treated as more than just a fantasy. this wednesday, a senate committee will hold a hearing to, quote, examine the strategic significance of greenland to the american economy and national security. greenland has made it clear it's not for sale, but cnn's donie o'sullivan traveled there to see how greenlanders feel about it all. and here's what he's found. >> i really want. >> this statue gone. >> why? >> because why should he. >> be up there? why isn't it a greenland up there? trump wants to buy my country greenland. >> this is coopernook olson. >> today, my crew and i are having whale skin.

>> she's known as greenland's biggest influencer, and she's running in the island's upcoming elections. she's a native greenlander. and for her, this statue of an 18th century missionary is a daily reminder of denmark's control of her country. so you would like to be independent of denmark? yes. but that doesn't mean you want to be part of the usa. >> no, i don't. i don't want to become a part of the usa. i definitely. >> don't want to be an american. no. why not? >> why should i? why should we just be taken by another colonizer? >> native greenlanders or inuits make up almost 90% of greenland's population. is all this interest in greenland because of trump? is it a good thing, or is it a bad thing? >> in my opinion, it's a good thing because it's speeding up our independence process. so i see it as a good thing. >> when the nazis took over denmark during world war two, the united states stepped in to

protect greenland. now, the u.s. military has had a presence here on greenland for decades. but in the capital, one of the very few signs of the united states is this the u.s. consulate, which was reopened by president trump in his first term in 2020. >> americans died. >> for this country. >> in my. >> own family. >> my my grandfather watched his his shipmates die. >> another sign of the u.s. here is tom dennis, who was appointed to the u.s. arctic research commission during trump's first presidency. when trump first brought up greenland, people treated it like it was a joke. people thought, that's crazy. but you're saying it's not so crazy? >> it's not crazy at all. greenland, due to its geographic positioning, is the kind of the front door for north america. >> the u.s. is jostling with russia and others for arctic dominance. military bases here are prime real estate for satellite and missile detection

systems. so this is danish navy. >> the danish navy. yeah. >> greenland currently relies on denmark for security and financial support. you think greenland can survive without. without this? without the. >> we will definitely need an agreement with another country. either with or still continue the agreement with denmark, with military or go with us or canada. >> climate change is opening up new shipping routes in the arctic that the u.s. want to control. the greenlanders you've spoken to are excited about a close relationship with the u.s. >> absolutely. absolutely. you know, i'm i'm talking with businessmen, investors, entrepreneurs. tremendous things are happening. >> and another appeal of greenland for trump is its many natural resources. >> fishing, tourism, mining, security, investments, logistics. the hard thing is deciding where to start first. >> tom danes does not have a

role in the current administration, but he did campaign for trump in the last election. along with greenlander jorgen boesen. >> he's been known as trump's son. here. trump. son here. papa. papa. papa. >> i mean. >> maybe you could be. yeah. jorgen has made multiple trips to the u.s. in recent months, even campaigning for trump in pennsylvania. do you want greenland to be part of the united states? >> not. >> not a. >> 5 to 1 state, but the best and closest. ally with everything, with defense, mining, oil exploration and trade and everything? >> okay, we're. >> here in greenland with don jr.. >> in january. another sign of the united states here. donald trump jr.. arriving on the plane dubbed trump force one. it's all a sign here for some that there's a lot more to come. >> the feeling when i saw the plane was kind of excitement, but also like, should i be