two, part of why gaza has been leveled is because of the united states supply, continued supply of military weapons to its ally, israel. so i can see how he would, on a very basic level, make that connection. it's something that jared kushner did about the west bank and the first trump administration. >> go ahead. >> i just want to remind you that the 400 million arabs you're talking about surrounding the palestinian territory have not done anything the last 494 days to ensure any safety of palestinians. they have, in fact, shut their borders down, refused to take in any refugees. it is until today, until king abdullah today said we'll take 2000 children basically doing trump a favor. trump had to light that fire under them. no, it's. >> absolutely true. do you know, i've been i've been to i've been. >> nobody has been helping in. >> developing a two state solution is. >> a lie. well then. >> they there are many palestinians basically in jordan, in qatar, in jordan, jordan in egypt. >> kuwait filled palestinians. egypt had gaza. they didn't give them palestinian. >> sorry. you have you have today, emily, basically just. >> emily and rula. just a second because we can't hear you and we

have one more minute left in the show. so rula, please respond quickly and then we'll call it a day. >> the arab peace initiative. i think the best thing we can achieve, they are telling you they are willing to pay to guarantee israel's security and basically also to solve this conflict. that's been the driver of all violence in the middle east and in the region. >> so who. >> are willing, willing they are willing to take over gaza, basically, and rebuild it for the palestinians in the next three years. until there are 2 million palestinians. but hamas is. ruling them. according to. >> israel. >> has only 20,000. >> emily and rula, we're going to have to leave it there because we're not going to we're not going to solve middle east peace at this. >> table tonight. >> emily. >> palestinians, please. >> rula, thank you very much. and thank you for watching newsnight. cnn's coverage continues next. >> tonight on 360, the president, elon musk, make big claims about government fraud and corruption. and musk claims about his transparency even as he avoids it with the president's blessing. we're

keeping them honest. also tonight, the president now says he's simply taking gaza and displacing the people living there with the king of jordan listening on. and later, we'll take you to one of the many places where the gutting of usaid is being felt and people are hurting because of it. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight keeping them honest with the extraordinary claims of government fraud by the president and similar claims of maximal transparency by elon musk, but little evidence of either to back it up. in fact, strong evidence to the contrary for musk contention that he and his doge team are doing what they do in a way that, quote, maximally transparent. he said that in the oval office, wearing a ball cap and t shirt with one of his kids nearby, he and the president, who yielded the stage to him for minutes at a time, both speaking at length with reporters. the president, who is now facing a string of court cases surrounding his and musk actions, address concerns that he would defy court orders, saying he, quote, always abides by the courts, but also saying this. >> and it seems hard to believe that judges want to try and stop us from looking for corruption, especially when we found

hundreds of millions of dollars worth much more than that in just a short period of time. we want to weed out the corruption, and it seems hard to believe that a judge could say, we don't want you to do that. so maybe we have to look at the judges, because that's a very serious i think it's a very serious violation. >> maybe we have to look at the judges, he says. there's certainly a list of judges, judges to choose from. a federal judge in rhode island, as we reported just yesterday, ruled that his administration is not abiding with his orders. an appeals court in boston upheld his decision earlier today. the president also, as we said, made claims about the scale of fraud and corruption inside the federal government. his words, by the way, fraud and corruption. >> as an example, a man has a contract for three months and the contract ends, but they keep paying him for the next 20 years, you know, because nobody ends a contract. you got a lot of that, all of this, this horrible stuff going on. and we've already found billions of dollars. not like a little bit billions, many billions of

dollars. and when you get down to it, it's going to be probably close to $1 trillion. it could be close to $1 trillion that we're going to find. >> well, he didn't offer specifics on that yet, but he raised the possibility again, without any specifics of crimes being committed. >> it could be a deal's made on both sides. you know, where the guy gets the money, he kicks. i think he has a lot of kickback here. i see a lot of kickback here. >> a lot of. >> kickbacks, a tremendous kickback, because nobody could be so stupid to give out some of these contracts. so he has to get a kickback now. >> waste, fraud and abuse are hardly unknown in federal government contracts. there's even a federal law to deal with it. the false claims act. according to the justice department, $2.9 billion were recovered under the fca last year, which is a lot, but it's just shy of the 3/10 of a percent of the trillion dollar figure. the president mentioned. the president offered no specifics or evidence of widespread kickbacks in federal contracts, which, if he did find them, would seem to be something he wouldn't be shy of showing off. the president then turned

the floor over to elon musk and his claims, including that what he and his department of government efficiency are doing is in the name of preserving democracy itself. >> and if you have rule of the the bureaucrat, if the bureaucracy is in charge, and then what meaning does democracy actually have if the people cannot vote and have their will be decided by their elected representatives in the form of the president and the senate and the house, then we don't live in a democracy. >> now! no one elected elon musk. obviously, the senate and the house authorized and allocated the funding for the agencies and the programs that he and his team are now gutting, and a president signed the legislation. they can, working together, cut or raise the spending, reshape the agencies and the programs. and short of that, lawmakers in both chambers can exercise oversight and call attention to problems by holding hearings. elon musk is right in identifying the people who are truly responsible, according to the constitution, for deciding what the government should do, funding it and overseeing it

all. but he also seems to think that if they're falling down on that job, it's his job to decide all that on his own without facing the kind of accountability or transparency from the voters that legislators do every 2 or 6 years, but claiming all the same that he is acting transparently. >> what are the checks and balances that are in place to ensure that there is accountability and transparency? >> well, we actually are trying to be as transparent as possible. in fact, our actions we post our actions to the doge handle on x and to the doge website. so all of our actions are maximally transparent. >> he's talking about these posts on his social network and a website boasting about contracts terminated and money saved, with posts sprinkled in touting trump initiatives like renaming the gulf of mexico the gulf of america, it amounts to a series of press releases, which is not really the same as transparency. nor is sending doge staffers into federal agencies, taking control of their computer systems and doing things that no one but then them really know. it's not

transparency, either. it's a tweet. after reporters began doing profiles on some of those staffers, quote, you have committed a crime. and for someone claiming to be maximally transparent, we know nothing about his potential conflicts of interest, both as the world's richest man and a federal contractor himself. today, the white house revealed that musk is a, quote, unpaid special government employee will file a financial disclosure, but that disclosure will be confidential, which sounds like minimal, more than maximal transparency. and so does this. the administration today fired usaid inspector general. that's in addition to at least 12 inspectors general fired late last month. cnn's kaitlan collins starts us off again tonight. so what was the thinking behind the trump musk press conference? and is the white house happy with the extent to which musk was there, kind of looming by the president's side? >> i think a lot of it has to do with all the criticism that has been coming from from certain corners, especially like capitol hill, about elon musk and accountability and this unchecked power. and as you

noted there, the fact that he is unelected and we're seeing just how much he's kind of bulldozing his way through the federal government with his team in tow. it's basically something that lawmakers get asked about every single day on capitol hill, if they're comfortable with the parameters of this and what this looks like, and even some people inside the white house have questions about that purview and what exactly doge is doing every single day. and so this was not a planned event at the white house today when reporters went in to to have this executive order signing, they knew that was going to to be what was awaiting them. elon musk being in the room was a surprise. and really, this was the first time that he has taken questions from reporters, certainly at a length like this since trump took office and since he he got this new purview of going through the federal government. and so it was a session where, you know, as he talked about transparency, where reporters were able to ask questions to him directly about potential for conflicts of interest and what the guardrails are against that and what exactly he's doing. and also about some claims that he has

made about what the federal government is spending money on that just weren't true. like condoms going to gaza something that was not just said by by elon musk, but we've heard repeated by the president, who is sitting there at the resolute desk, the white house press secretary, cabinet officials, lawmakers, republicans on capitol hill. and he noted, anderson, in that moment, he said that everything he'll say won't be true, that some things need to be corrected. in essence. and of course, the question is there. that is something that the media fact checked essentially, and then said, you know, there was no evidence that they could find either from the state department or from provided by the white house on this. but it was really, you know, this remarkable picture to see where after that time magazine cover came out last week showing elon musk behind the resolute desk, we were seeing him standing next to trump, behind the resolute desk as as trump, really, just for about 30 minutes. let him take these questions from the pool reporters who were inside the room. >> i mean, if if they really want it to be transparent, i mean, you know, we're seeing

cameras in the oval office in a way we've never seen before. they could have cameras with the doge team and elon musk as they're spending their day doing whatever it is they're doing. i mean, is there any more talk of any kind of visibility on what they're doing? >> well, that's really the question here of of, you know, as he's pledging transparency and saying that publicly, it's what does that actually look like behind the scenes? he was talking about the doge website. but but as we have seen so, so much of what we found out about what they're doing has come from sources at federal agencies who have told people about meetings that they had with members of his team. sometimes in those meetings where they would not give their last names or full names to to the federal workers that they were speaking with. now, i've heard from people inside the white house that that was because they were worried that they were being doxed, that their information was being published online. if they were providing their names. but clearly, these federal workers who were being interviewed in some cases by these staffers who were asking them about their job descriptions and what they do, they did not feel that that was transparent in the sense that

they didn't even know who they were speaking with. and so i think that is a real question going forward here. and the other important part about what trump was asked about is, you know, what they are going through and what trump and elon musk are describing as fraud in these situations. all of this is something that was appropriated by congress, that congress approved and said, here's this money to spend on this. now, maybe they disagree with it or think it's a waste or don't like it, but it is did go through that process. and so that has been the question that trump was even asked today. would you eventually go to congress to ask for a vote or, you know, have that legislative check on this in terms of what you're doing with these agencies? he said he didn't think he needed to, though. i mean, he would probably pretty easily get the votes, judging by how republicans on capitol hill respond to this white. >> house, that's for sure. kaitlan collins, thanks very much. we'll see you certainly at the source at the top of the hour. joining us now, former federal prosecutor jeffrey toobin. his new book, the pardon, just went on sale today. also with us, former new hampshire governor chris sununu and cnn political commentator alyssa farah. griffin. alyssa, what did you think of the visual of musk?

>> and it. >> was fascinating. i'm still trying to wrap my head around trump kind of sharing the stage with a counterpart. this is someone who likes to be the main character. he's president. he doesn't want to have somebody who's stealing the spotlight from him. but i think there's some strategy on trump's part with the elon musk relationship. he's giving him incredible bandwidth to basically go through the entire federal government and decide what needs to be cut, and they're inevitably going to be an elon kind of admitted this, not just mistakes they have to correct, but things that fall through the cracks once these sweeping changes happen and donald trump is going to be able to blame elon musk when that inevitably happens, a small example is their cbs reporting that since the folding of usaid, about $500 million in food aid is sitting in ports and not being able to get to where it was intended to. that's actually a small thing. as they start going through bigger agencies, i think you're going to see actual issues that impact americans, and it gives them somebody to kind of pass off the blame to. >> governor sununu is was it strange to see? >> it was surreal. but i got to

tell you, i know what you're not showing here. musk gave seven specific examples off the top of his head of where the corruption and fraud were. i know you don't. you didn't play the clips. he was talking about a contractor that had a three month contract. he was paid for 20 years. he was talking about welfare benefits that were being paid to someone that was technically 150 years old. he was talking about line items in the treasury that had no justification. >> no any actual like he doesn't present any actual evidence. >> he's standing there in the oval office. do you expect him to come in with 10,000 pages? and i have to be clear to complain about this administration, about transparency. when this president takes open questions on a daily basis. yet joe biden didn't show up for a press conference. this six months is insane. these guys are being extremely transparent. they don't have to sit there and take the questions, but they do. it's all on the website. it's all out there. >> it's not transparency to say things that have no factual background. i mean to say we're cutting, you know, we've found $1 billion or $1 trillion in waste with no specifics. that's just talk. that's not transparency. >> it's 23 days in here, guys.

23 days. you're talking about 2.3 billion that was saved last year. these guys are saving 2.3 billion a day. but you. >> know you know. >> it's incredible. >> that's what they're saying. but where's the proof. >> you're waiting. you're not going to be satisfied until he shows up with 10,000 pages. i think 10,000 pages. >> he's giving very specific. >> things. he's giving. >> but he's not actually giving any evidence of that. >> it's all going to come because what they also said was, if we have to go to congress, we'll go to congress. we'll show where. >> it is. >> some of the details that have come out like the, you know, $59 million spent on luxury hotels. it's actually not. >> talking about the fema money that was abused for migrants. that was fema money for migrants. that's okay now. >> no, i'm not saying it's okay. i'm not saying it's okay. don't put words in my mouth. >> would you stop that? would you stop that process? >> don't be a dick. the portrayal i'm. what i'm saying is the portrayal by him is just not factually accurate. he's talking about luxury hotels. there you can. i'm not i'm not a big look. i was in a hurricane till he sends you. i saw what fema does. >> i believe. >> i saw.

>> i think. >> the issue too is these are congressionally appropriated funds. i think you and i, as conservatives, could look for a lot of things in the federal budget. we would be more than happy to see done away with. but i think that there have been things that have been presented as one thing and then turn out to be something very different. the condoms to gaza the first time i heard that stated, i knew that wasn't true. it doesn't take an expert to know that we're not doing that. and then we've got this example of politico allegedly spending $8 million. that just simply wasn't true. so i think what people want is, yes, it's fine to tweet it out, but explain why we're cutting it, what it is, and if it's taking away a good or a service from the public, what is backfilling it so that people aren't going to be losing something they need? >> and i'll just add i give him credit for this. he said, look, we're going to make mistakes. he said, we're going to make them. he said, we're not going to bat a thousand here. we're going to make mistakes and we should be held accountable to those mistakes. but the fraud and waste and corruption is so deep and so rampant, it's going to take time. he's not going through a ledger on $1 million business. he's going through trillions of trillions of dollars here. >> but if it's if it's going to take a long time, say it's going to take a long time. don't say we've already found this many

billion dollars and then not prove it. >> would you rather wait him for 18 months and say, oh, and by the way, we didn't. we didn't talk to you. we didn't tell you anything we were doing. but here's our final result. he's giving us a day by day analysis of what's happening. i don't know how much more transparent you can be. >> well, i. >> mean, you can just say. i don't believe him, jeff. >> what about that? i mean, to the governor's point, waiting a year for a final report, and. but would that be tenable? >> you don't have to provide the, you know, every dollar accountable. but if you have the president saying we're finding billions of dollars and not identifying where any of those billions of dollars come from, that's not one person on welfare for 150 years. if you're going to say that there are billions of dollars in waste that have been identified, at least in a general way, can you say where those where that money is and and there's history here, too. i mean, donald trump and numbers and you know how rich he is and how much money he's spent or saved. he has not a great history of honesty there. so

that we bring that to the table as. >> usaid, for example, which i know is not the sexiest thing. dems are not going to win by complaining about usaid funding being cut. but in the first trump administration, when i worked for him, we did incredible work with usaid, helping our allies abroad. we were supporting the opposition government in venezuela, getting food aid to starving venezuelans. for example. he was using it all over the world. it was congressionally appropriated. marco rubio was a champion of it in the senate. so i think there's a lot of republicans and conservatives who just want to know if we're pulling that back, if we're not countering china on the world stage through international aid, what are we doing and how are we? how are we leading in that? in that sense. >> he is. i mean, what i don't think president trump gets enough credit for, which is the government pointed out, i mean, he is being far more in front of cameras than the previous administration. i mean, it is startling. you can obviously, we criticize a lot of what he says and stuff, but it is remarkable the amount of of stuff he is putting out there in front of

people, whether you believe him or not or like him or not. >> one lesson of the last administration is that people want to see the president, and they didn't see joe biden for for days. and sometimes it seemed weeks at a time. and, and president trump has filled that vacuum. i have questions about the veracity of some of the things he said, but it is certainly better that he's sitting there answering questions than disappearing the way joe biden. >> what. >> trump is doing is brilliant from the tiktok ban once it goes back online to 167 million users, it's thanking donald trump that it's online heading to the super bowl, he announces the signing of the gulf of america while flying over the gulf of america. i mean, it's brilliant. tv production. give the man an emmy. he knows what he's doing, but that is how you captivate voters and you convince them you're getting a lot done every day. >> and don't forget he does the pennies. he does the paper straws. that's strategic. that's to say we have these wonky, complicated stuff over here. but i'm going to also do a few things that people just get on a on a visceral level. and people say, okay, great, there's something moving. >> forward i don't understand

is what's so terrible about paper straws? i don't get it. they melt. >> you're the. >> one i'm with trump on this. >> i realize that's not what this. is about. but, you. >> know, before we go, i want to apologize. i was i was i was rude to you, and i never. >> are you kidding? i grew up with seven brothers. >> and. >> sisters, and i'm a sununu. >> i invited. >> you here, governor. you want to know what i'm normally called? it's one of the nicest things i've been called all week. >> it's great. no, but i apologize. no, no, it's not. it's. i don't know why i said that, i really do. >> we're all friends here. >> no, i mean, i, i like it, keeps it. >> spicy, keeps it hot. it's post 8:00. have some fun on cnn. >> i don't want to do that. governor sununu, thank you very much. alyssa farah, griffin and jeffrey toobin is back shortly to talk about his new book. coming up next, the new york times, tom friedman on the president's tripling down today on taking gaza and displacing the people who live there. also later, steve bannon pleaded guilty to defrauding the public in the name of donald trump's wall. we'll be right back. >> perfect for valentine's love bracelets. 199 one carat heart solitaires or studs. 599 two

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anything. we're going to have it and we're going to keep it, and we're going to make sure that there's going to be peace and there's not going to be any problem, and nobody's going to question it. and we're going to run it very properly. >> well, the president also said that the 2 million palestinians who live in gaza would not return home. >> it's going to be where we ultimately choose as a group, and i believe we'll have a parcel of land in jordan. i believe we'll have a parcel of land in egypt. we may have someplace else. >> well, neither jordan nor egypt nor the palestinians are on board with this. joining us now is new york times foreign affairs columnist and bestselling author thomas friedman. among his many books, from beirut to jerusalem. so, tom, president trump's press secretary, his secretary of state, both sort of tried to walk his gaza plan back after he announced it last week. he certainly seems to be doubling down on this. as somebody who's worked in this region a long time, how do you assess this plan?

>> well, as i said in my column for tonight. >> i'm anderson in the times. um, i think it's. >> the single craziest peace initiative i've ever heard. um, it's clearly not thought out. it was not vetted by experts. it was not run through the countries. we're expecting to take these palestinians, 2 million people plus, um, uh, it was it's not really a plan, anderson. it's a riff. um, and it seems to change every single day. uh, and i don't see how it's going to be implemented. i don't see who's going to transfer these people. i don't see how they're going to go voluntarily. uh, america, we are told, is not going to send any troops or pay any costs. um, you know, it's, um, it's just it's just crazy. um, it's hard to take seriously, except we're dealing with people's lives and we're dealing with american allies. uh, in, in the arab world, who could be easily destabilized by this. >> it also is a big break for the prime minister of israel. netanyahu yeah.

>> i mean, for netanyahu, you know, he has been under enormous criticism for failing to articulate a plan for the morning after in gaza, how they translate their military victory over hamas into a political victory of a non hamas regime in gaza. the reason netanyahu hasn't articulated that is the only alternative is the palestinian authority. and netanyahu does not want the palestinian authority governing gaza, because then he will not be able to tell everyone in the world that the palestinians are divided. they all have one government in the west bank and gaza. um, and that will make them much better place to be a partner for a two state solution. so that's been netanyahu's policy from the very beginning. um, and, um, sooner or later, anderson, um, uh, donald trump will wake up and realize that america's interests and netanyahu's interests are not aligned. now, um, trump is not wrong that, um, we can't solve this problem, uh, through the old tools. we do need fresh thinking, but the fresh thinking

that i would expect from the u.s. president is to challenge all the parties in a new way. um, it's to challenge the arab leadership that we need a different leader of the palestinian authority tomorrow. um, we need a different prime minister. we need a technocratic cabinet that can actually govern gaza. we need arab countries to step up with with arms to help take gaza off israel's hands before a palestinian force can be brought up to speed, to work with them. to do that, um, we need israel to agree to, uh, basically get out of gaza once its hostages are returned. um, and we need the world to get behind this and support it financially. trump could challenge everybody here, and i would be all for it because we can't solve this the just the old way. there's going to have to be a real transition. enormous damage has been done. enormous fear has been injected into israelis after october 7th and obviously into gazans since then. and, um, it's going to

take time. but netanyahu wants everyone to believe that everything's been tried and nothing is left except to throw these people out. and, um, uh, i, i fear for, an israel that is seen as engaging in ethnic cleansing. uh, you do that, and every jew in the world will learn what it is to be a jew in the world when the jewish state is a pariah. um, i have no truck with hamas. there are wicked, terrible organization, first and foremost, for palestinians, their leadership needs to be removed. um, and and their people basically liberated from them. but this needs to be done with a coherent plan, not a president riffing about it and saying, you're going to take them and you're going to take them, and we're not going to pay anything, and i'm going to own it. what is this nonsense? what happens if xi jinping and china wakes up tomorrow and says to taiwan, i own you, baby? um,

all of you are going to have to leave or accept my leadership. what? what is the difference. >> in terms of just. i don't even understand the you know, he had said initially, once the fighting stops, then the u.s. would go in. um, but then he seems to talk about kind of the u.s. taking command of the gaza strip. >> yeah. again, none of it's thought out. um, it was clearly not briefed to any of his people beforehand or that we can tell that any of them have claimed, um, uh, and there's no, like, plan. there's no there's no even like paper anderson, of here's the seven point plan because it changes every day. and, you know, this is a problem beyond gaza. um, in trump won in his first term, trump was surrounded by buffers, uh, serious people who buffered his worst instincts and impulses and tried to channel them in productive ways. he's now

surrounded by amplifiers, um, amplifiers backed by an enforcer, elon musk, who can use the world's biggest megaphone. twitter, um, to basically set a twitter swarm on anyone who disagrees with the president. so everyone's afraid. and the president's cabinet is really it's a collection of bobbleheads, and they just sort of nod at whatever his latest, you know, um, uh, crazy idea is and again, he's not wrong to say we need to think about this differently. but the operative word there, anderson, is think. sit down, put a team together. think with your allies. what are the implications for jordan if we destabilize jordan? what are the implications for israel? if jordan gets destabilized by having to take a million people and upset its demographic balance, same can happen to egypt, netanyahu told saudi arabia today. they should take a million people. we're passing palestinians out right and left, you know, um, from israel and washington. this is not serious. it's not our great power

operates, and it will end badly. >> tom friedman, thanks for being here. appreciate it. coming up, steve bannon today pleading guilty to. the wall street journal as the wall street journal editorial board put it, defrauding the people he claims to represent. we're keeping them honest and later refugees of a civil war. now victims of the usaid freeze. >> kaitlan collins is your dc source bringing you unprecedented access to the white house, capitol hill and beyond? follow caitlin for in-depth political coverage and analysis, and watch her on the isa soares tonight at nine on cnn. >> i was going through the menopause, and i really wasn't feeling great about my hair. plenty. 39 has definitely made a difference to me. my hair. it started to feel thicker. i found my hair's more swishy and and stronger. it's lovely to have one less thing to worry about. the bit that i care most about is is my hair, and if it looks good, i feel absolutely

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monkey magnets.com. so call one 800 4973606. now closed captioning is brought to you by skechers winter boots. >> winter is here, but your toes are warm, cozy, and comfortable thanks to skechers winter boots. stylishly rugged boots designed with comfy, capable material. skechers boots. >> breaking news an american teacher marc fogel wrongly jailed in a russian prison for nearly four years, is free tonight. he's expected to arrive shortly back on american soil. he's flying back with president trump's special envoy, steve witkoff, who brokered his release and is en route to joint base andrews as we speak. we believe they could arrive at any moment. there's expected to from

there to head to the white house for a meeting with president trump. we'll bring that to you when it happens. now steve bannon, president trump's one time chief strategist who loves to portray himself as the ultimate patriot. he was in court today and pleaded guilty to a scheme to defraud hundreds of thousands of americans, most of them likely president trump's own supporters. people who donated to a scam that bannon and others promoted as an effort to help build a wall along the southern border. now, for a guy who loves to talk. he was noticeably silent during the hearing. today, he answered a few questions from the judge and acknowledged he was guilty as charged. once he was out of the courtroom, though, in front of a microphone, he was not quite so demure. he didn't acknowledge his crime or his guilt, which he just did in court. he did not apologize, in fact, for the fraud. he said nothing about it. instead, he did as he often does. he went on the attack, singling out the manhattan da, alvin bragg and new york's attorney general, letitia james, saying they were an existential threat to president trump. he also called for u.s. attorney general pam bondi to launch a criminal investigation into

them. >> the existential threat is right here in this city. it is the queen of lawfare. letitia james. >> well, keeping them honest, there's no indication that bragg or james broke any laws here. and as bannon's attorney later indicated, bannon got a good deal given the charges he had initially been facing. he is a convicted felon now in new york, but he won't be serving any prison time. you may recall president trump pardoned him just hours before he left office in 2021 on federal charges. in this scam, it was a state charge. he pled guilty to today. bannon's friends in the scam were not so lucky. however, brian kolfage, andrew badolato, and timothy shea were all convicted in federal court of conspiracy to commit wire fraud for their role in the we build the wall scheme. shea was also convicted of conspiracy to commit money laundering and obstruction of justice. now, kolfage got four years in prison, but alioto got three years and shea got more than five years. and it's worth just taking a minute, though, to remind you of what they bannon,

the three others were involved with their charity that we build the wall was basically crowdfunding, border wall construction. they allegedly or these allegedly loyal maga men were on tour across the country selling their wall project to trump supporters, holding town halls with hundreds of people at a time. and they built the very people that they claim to care about out of more than $25 million, according to federal prosecutors. >> we have many prominent donors here today, some some very prominent people that have helped us out, not just on our advisory board, but also giving money and contributed. and of course, this wall was made by the citizens of the country. that's what he calls the people's wall. i'm going to look to my fellow citizens to put some money up, and we're going to go find the toughest sites in the country and start to build the wall. >> well, they also promised people that none of the money would go to them, and they frame themselves as selfless volunteers executing president trump's vision. according to federal prosecutors, brian kolfage repeatedly lied to the public, telling donors that he would, quote, not take a penny

in salary or compensation and that 100% of the funds raised will be used in the execution of our mission and purpose. instead, prosecutors said they lined their pockets with hundreds of thousands of dollars and devised a scheme to route the money through entities and bank accounts that they controlled. the feds said kolfage took more than $350,000 in addition to their prison sentences. the all three of them, kolfage, badolato and shea, were ordered by the court to forfeit more than $21 million and pay more than $6 million in restitution. steve bannon, despite having been accused by federal prosecutors of getting more than $1 million for his own nonprofit, some of which they allege he used for personal expenses, he denied guilt on the federal charges and, as i mentioned, was pardoned before a trial, even though he pled guilty in a new york court today in the scheme to defraud donors, he is walking away without having to pay a penny. more now on presidential pardons and the rule of law in america. bestselling author jeffrey toobin is back. his new book, just out today. it's called the pardon the politics of

presidential mercy. um, you talk a lot about president ford's landmark pardon of nixon compared to how president biden and trump use pardons. how does it sort of stand up? >> well, i think what's extraordinary about pardons are that they reveal the presidents, they reveal their good qualities and their bad qualities. and if you look at, you know, joe biden, his obsession with his own family, leading him to pardon his son, who, frankly, was a convicted felon at that point and should have faced consequences. and then if you look at president trump, both in his first term and his second term, you see that this is the ultimate transactional narcissist. he helps the people who help him and punishes those who don't. if you look at all the news we're talking about today, about how he's handling the presidency, you know, over this first month, it all is revealed by the pardons. you know, look at pardoning steve bannon. you know, steve bannon

helped him. so he got away with stealing all this money. but you know by by being a pardon. by getting a pardon. he pardoned 1500. january 6th rioters because he too was a january 6th defendant. different kind of charges. so you know, this is what we're going to see throughout the trump presidency. him taking care of his own. he pardoned rob blagojevich, the former governor of michigan of illinois, in guilty in a corruption scheme. this is who he is. and it's the pardons that reveal it. >> sort of. does it send a message also to the people around him that if they do his bidding, even if it's wrong, he can have their back. >> and the supreme court reinforced that message that there is no more accountability for for presidents. the decision in trump v united states said all official actions are off limits. and if you look at trump's pardons, anyone who is a political ally, whether it's

the january 6th people or abortion protesters who intimidate people going to get abortion, rod blagojevich, they are all going to get passes because they are trump allies, not because they did anything. not not because what they did was right is because what they did was for trump. >> yeah. jeff toobin, thank you so much. >> and gerald ford, too. anyway, we'll get to that. >> another time. i appreciate it, jeff toobin. president trump today called usaid corrupt. we'll take you to thailand, where refugees from neighboring myanmar, formerly known as burma, have depended on u.s. foreign aid to help fund clinics. also, for anyone concerned about the price of eggs, a report tonight on how farmers are trying to protect their poultry from bird flu. we'll be right back. >> a sleep number bed is perfect for couples. it helps reduce snoring with a tap so you both get your best night's sleep. and now save 50% on the new sleep number. limited edition smart bed. shop a sleep number store

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sweeping reduction in staff actually made it more difficult to track potential misuse of funds. that dismissal came shortly after president trump and elon musk attacked the agency, though citing no specific evidence for their accusations. >> the usaid is really corrupt, i'll tell you it's corrupt, it's incompetent, and it's really corrupt. >> overall. if you say, what is the bang for the buck? i would say it was not very good. um, and there was far too much of what usaid was doing was influencing, influencing elections in ways that i think were dubious and do not stand the light of day. >> again, neither offered specific evidence for their allegations, a view now from the ground on how usaid was able to provide some medical care to a desperate group of refugees in a civil war half a world away, until the funding was cut off. here's ivan watson. >> this is what happens when the world's biggest aid donor suddenly stops sending money. families ordered to evacuate

their sick loved ones from this hospital in the mountains of western thailand. days later, the hospital deserted its front gate, locked shut. this is a refugee camp for tens of thousands of people who fled the civil war across the nearby border in neighboring myanmar. the hospital here largely depended on u.s. government funding, which suddenly stopped. and now, nearly two weeks later, there isn't a single doctor on duty for this community of more than 30,000 people. it's a 30 minute drive from this sprawling refugee camp to the nearest thai hospital. the director here, shocked by the sudden closure of the camp hospital. has this been stressful these last two weeks for you? >> yes, yes, i think. >> so. yeah. >> so dangerous. >> his facility has to suddenly absorb some of the refugee camps. patients. and that

includes 32 year old mary. is this your first baby? >> yeah. >> first. you're going to be a mama soon. you're going to be a mother. >> yeah. >> suffering high blood pressure. she was rushed to this maternity ward this morning and is now in labor, far from her family and home at the camp. >> at the time. >> i just want to ask the u.s. government why they have to stop helping the refugees. >> on january 20th, president donald trump ordered an immediate 90 day pause in all u.s. foreign aid. he declared the u.s aid industry is not aligned with american interests and claims it serves to destabilize world peace. years. myanmar has been ripped apart by a brutal civil war. a military dictatorship that seized power in a coup in 2021. battling numerous insurgent groups. the conflict has forced more than 3

million people to flee their homes and now aid organizations tell cnn they only have a month and a half of funding left to feed refugees along the thai border with myanmar. leaving smaller aid groups scrambling to fill the gap. you're going into myanmar. >> this will go across the border. >> yeah. >> kanchana thornton regularly takes food, infant formula and medicine across the border river to desperate people in the conflict zone. the u.s. funding cut made matters worse. why is it affecting you? you don't get money from washington. >> well, patients. >> come to us and. >> asking us for help. >> because they're not getting it from the original. >> yeah, because they're not getting support that they should from the ngo that got the funding cut. >> everywhere we go in this poverty stricken border region, we hear about basic services disrupted and aid workers being laid off. this clinic treats

nearly 500 patients a day. it receives nearly 20% of its funding from the u.s. government. washington has been sending money here for at least 20 years, but now all of that has stopped. uncertainty now felt by rebecca and her nine year old daughter, rosella. yeah. can you show me your favorite pictures? the residents of the refugee camp who had to move out of the hospital when it shut down last month, even though rosella was born with a bone condition, she needs oxygen around the clock. my daughter needs the hospital to be open, rebecca says. and so do i, because i'm pregnant. the cut in u.s. funding means this pregnant mother no longer has access to a doctor, and she doesn't know how much longer her daughter's oxygen will last. anderson. the pause in u.s. funding has already become a matter of life and death. the international rescue committee tells cnn that an elderly woman

who couldn't get supplemental oxygen died after the hospital. in her refugee camp closed last month. life has never been easy for refugees in this porous border region. if the world's biggest aid donor truly does pull out, i think it's fair to say life will get much, much harder. anderson. >> ivan watson, thanks very much. up next, the race to contain bird flu and the precautions some farmers are taking to protect their livestock. >> gia diamonds, lowest prices ever. the jewelry exchange has natural one carat gia just 1990. custom mounts are just 4.99 carat, 50 2992 carat, 5990. thousands of diamonds guaranteed the lowest price. the jewelry exchange. >> you know what you don't see in psoriasis commercials? cut the thousands of real people who go undiagnosed, people whose

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markets were forced to temporarily, temporarily close after bird flu was detected at seven of the markets. our jason carroll spoke to farmers about their bird flu concerns and some of the precautions they're taking to protect their livelihood. >> so these are. >> our two year old birds that are out. >> here in a winter house, and they're venturing outside today. >> farmers like tom warren have been keeping. >> a more watchful eye on their chickens. >> these days. >> we'll just have to see what happens. it's kind of what we're going to do, all right. and hope for the best. >> warren owns. >> stone and thistle farm, a. >> small farm. >> located in the foothills of the catskill mountains. more than a three hour drive from new york city. but with the threat of avian flu, the city seems closer than ever. new york's governor temporarily shut down live poultry markets in new york city, long island, and westchester county as a precautionary measure. after several cases of bird flu were recently discovered. >> over the last week. >> inspectors have detected

seven cases of bird flu in poultry. >> cases of bird flu were also found at the queens zoo, and possible cases are under investigation. at the bronx zoo. last month, a commercial duck farm in long island was forced to euthanize more than 100,000 ducks after a bird flu outbreak hit the facility. to prevent further spread. wild birds are the likely source of the avian flu on farms. it's a big concern for small farmers such as warren, whose livestock and poultry are partially raised outside where they have free range to roam. >> we just hope. >> i mean. >> for us it's. >> mostly, uh, we can do. >> a few things to prevent or reduce the risk hazard. >> what can you do? >> well, we like i said, we keep our feeders. >> indoors. >> so that deters wild birds from coming down into the place. >> you're very pragmatic about the whole thing. >> getting agitated about it isn't going to benefit me or the chickens or the farm business. so we take as many

precautions as we can. >> precautions such as no one permitted on the farm if they've been to another farm, own a bird, or have had contact with birds is why we did. daniel bri's interview over zoom. >> you can't. see it, smell it, or, you know, you have no idea where the bird flu is until it's too late. yes, i am worried. >> bry is a third generation poultry farmer who has dodged avian flu outbreaks in 2014 and 2022. he says an outbreak could be financially devastating for small farms like his and warren's. >> it's like a death. >> sentence. >> you know, you lose your cut, you lose. you don't have any eggs for 3 to 4 months at least. it's it's a nightmare, but it basically puts you out of business. a smaller farm. >> is that something that you could survive if you had to shut down for. >> that period? >> um, yeah. >> i'm going to survive. it's the chickens that aren't going to survive. but, um, no, but it would be difficult. it would hurt our business astronomically. >> his message to consumers

during all this poultry and eggs remain safe when prepared properly. >> would you like to hold her? >> uh, no. >> no. >> warren says his eggs and chickens are selling. and his well-trained dogs help keep the wild birds at bay. for now. >> it's probably unlikely that we would contract it, but it's still a crapshoot. i mean, we there's a limit to what we can do to control it. >> what do you think your odds are? >> i'm not much of a betting man, so. okay. i have no idea what our odds are. i mean, we've managed to get through a couple of years with, uh, avian influenza around without any problems, and we can just hope that we'll make it through a couple more years. and then i'm going to retire. >> and anderson, farmers say one of the issues that is so frustrating to them is trying to dispel all of the misinformation. they say, that is circulating among consumers going forward. they also say knowing as much as they can about the disease is one of the best ways that they have to