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get a daily proctology exam. basically. okay, who let the doge out in a rare oval office appearance, elon musk faces questions from inside the white house defending the administration's sweeping overhaul of the federal government. >> and we're not going to have to buy. we're going to take it. we're going to hold it. we're going to cherish it. >> not clear what international law thinks of that. tripling down the president standing firm on his plan to take over gaza and relocate 2 million palestinians who call it home. this right alongside jordan's king. why the u.s. ally is pushing back and for far too long, the federal government has not answered these questions. releasing the files from jfk to mlk. house republicans announce

a new task force on the declassification of federal secrets 6 a.m. here on the east coast, a live look at the washington monument. looking pretty this morning. good morning everyone. i'm jim sciutto in for kasie hunt. great to have you here with us. marc fogel is home. the teacher from pennsylvania spent the last three years wrongfully detained in russia. he was welcomed back to the u.s. by president trump last night after the administration secured his release. he was draped, as you see there in an american flag, later was handed a beer. >> i feel like the luckiest man on earth right now. and, uh. i want you to know that i am not a hero in this at all. and president trump is a hero.

>> the white house did not say who the u.s. gave in exchange. president trump called it a show of good faith from the kremlin and signaled that another person may be released soon. >> what were the terms of this deal, mr. president? >> very fair, very, very fair, very reasonable. not like deals you've seen over the years. they were very fair. and i think that's going to lead. and where somebody else is being released tomorrow that you will know of. >> the president went on to say that fogel's release could be, quote, a big, important part of ending the war in ukraine. joining me now to discuss zolan kanno-youngs, white house correspondent for the new york times, karen finney, senior adviser for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. and matt gorman, former senior adviser to tim scotts 2024 presidential campaign. matt, why wouldn't the president say who the u.s. gave in return? >> i don't know, i'm not i'm not the expert here. but i think

what was interesting, i thought it was a great night. look, i take politics out of it was a great night for america. i felt really bad for his family. i know, because there was a lot of justifiable, you know, joy, when brittney griner and folks at home, you can talk about that. the politics of the deal, which you can disagree with. whatever. but i felt bad. obviously, the mother of marc fogel, i think obviously kind of felt like he was left behind. and so i think it was great to have him home, and also great that the mother really felt great about it. and it was great seeing him with his steelers hat and the beer. i think it was a good night, honestly, all around for this country, i really do. >> karen, you were involved in brittney. you were in brittney griner's team, involved in that release. tell us your reaction to seeing this. >> well, certainly a huge congratulations to there's a team at the nsc. i hope they all still have their jobs. there's a team at the state department that this is what they do all day, every day is. and when you talk to them, they say, you know, when we go to sleep at night, we're thinking about the people who we couldn't get home, even when they have a win like this. but it feels like, look, i think they probably didn't want to say who, who was for who so that we when we if we

criticize that you get the benefit of one news cycle where he's the hero and we're celebrating because as you may recall, there were a lot of questions about the the i forget his name, the gun dealer. viktor bout. yeah. so, you know, and we had to have both that positive and the negative when really it is thank god they're home because you know being in particularly being in a russian gulag is particularly horrendous. >> no question. it's a it's an extremely happy moment. and i know from speaking to those teams the effort that they put and often without public acclaim. right. they do it quite quietly because they want to get these people home. but zolan, given that president trump frequently criticized previous exchanges, american people have a right to know what was given in return. >> sure. and we're going to continue to be asking for details here in the days ahead to and especially since the president also yesterday forecasted that we may have more news in the days ahead as well. as far as any sort of, uh,

prisoner exchange, prisoner exchanges here. um, the thing that i'm also going to be asking, too, is one, it's very clear that steve witkoff is taking on a broader, a broader role here. >> in the mideast envoy. >> and beyond, just mideast now. right? i mean, also now moving towards russia and ukraine matters too. how does also this impact any potential talks that we see between the president and zelenskyy, which he said may be coming up as well as this week, as well as any potential talks with putin himself? the president still refused to answer questions about whether he has talked to putin when he's talked to putin recently, if he has. so that is something we'll also have to be watching. if that conversation. >> secretary of state rubio, he was asked if fogel release could be a good sign in terms of these ukraine negotiations. here was his answer on that. have a listen. >> it's a long way to go between here and there. it's not going to be easy. and and again, i don't want to claim that what's happening here tonight is in any way the first step towards that. but i do think it's a good sign that the russians were willing to do

something in this regard, and hopefully we can build on that in the days to come. >> it looks like an iphone interview there. i guess a selfie interview. what was that like? do we know the state of those negotiations and what exactly? i mean, the key question is what is what kind of pressure is the u.s. putting, for instance, on ukraine? and how far is russia willing to go? >> that's right, that's right. and i think it's also worth remembering that during the campaign, the president did say that he would essentially have this solved in 24 hours. and we have not seen that up until this point. we also have not seen really we're looking to see if the white house at this point, yes, we've seen the pressure that they're willing to put on ukraine. we know that trump, that president trump has been highly skeptical of u.s. aid as well, saying that during the campaign that ukraine should have cut a deal, you know, as well, even if that meant ceding territory for russia. but how much pressure is this white house willing to put on russia itself as well, when. >> it comes to given that russia

invaded ukraine? >> that's right. i mean, the ukrainian position is that the ukrainian position is that look, if we understand you want us to go to the negotiation table, but russia is also a bad actor here. you know, russia invaded ukraine. >> as you said, matt, why won't president trump say that in so many words? russia invaded ukraine. certainly the the the accurate analysis of this war of a marco rubio before he took on this position and others in trump's administration. why won't trump simply say those words? he often says it's a tragedy. the war happened. people are dying on both sides. i want to say russia invaded ukraine, and that shall not stand. >> i think what the i think zolan hits on a good point, and i think i keep coming back to it from this administration in so many other points, whether again, like it's colombia, panama, the tariffs with canada and mexico. i think what you're seeing now in this second trump term is a far more confident trump. he feels like he has kind of the reins on things. and so he's reverting back to a lot of his business instincts. and again on a host of fronts i think he views ukraine like this too. it's how can i what can i do to get leverage going in, get

people in a room or proverbial room and then cut a deal and sell it? and i think that is what he's essentially trying to do is going into the traditional bargaining table, saying as little as possible and trying to cut a deal with whatever comes out. >> and part of that deal, as we understand it, involves getting the u.s., getting access to ukrainian rare earth material, which seems to be the price that trump is demanding. we do have an update. and this just in to cnn that the kremlin confirms that a russian citizen was released as part of the fogel exchange. he does not say karen finney. who that person was, but there was an exchange. and well, frankly, as you know. well, that's how these things tend to work. >> absolutely. although just to this question about whether or not why won't trump say it's sort of it's kind of the who won the 2020 election? you know, the election denialism, you know, if you are on the russian talking points, you don't talk about, you don't say that russia invaded ukraine. you call it a

special operation. right? and so, perhaps as part of the negotiations, trump is saying is going to say, okay, i'm going to putin. i'm going to go with your talking points as part of the conversation. but again, i mean, it would be interesting also to know who was released because, again, the level of importance of that individual to russia could tell us something about, again, whether or not this is going to have any kind of impact on any. negotiations. >> that's right. and it is it is it a sign of good faith, as the president. >> said, the difficult thing here to you talk we talk about leverage. i mean, the ukrainian position is in order to have the most leverage in any type of potential negotiation, you need that u.s. aid, you need support. you also need the ability to continue to fight on the battlefield. >> and that's not just the view of ukraine. that's the view of of america's allies in europe, that without u.s. aid, ukraine might very well lose the war already. stand by. straight ahead on cnn this morning, defense secretary pete hegseth, he is in brussels this morning, headquarters of nato. of course, how the new trump administration is shifting responsibility for ukraine onto nato and the eu.

plus a surprise appearance from the world's richest man, elon musk, taking center stage in the oval office. we're going to discuss live with democratic congressman greg landsman and president trump not softening his gaza takeover plan that, we should note, would force 2 million palestinians out of their home. >> i say to trump that we will die in our country. we are not prepared to abandon our country. palestine is for palestinians. we do not belong to any other country. >> have i got news for you is back for another season. roy wood jr., amber ruffin and michael ian black are finding a funny in the week's biggest stories. >> we're going to give you all four years of something to talk about. >> if we alive. >> have i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn. >> dry. i still feel gritty, rough or tired with my bow eyes

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>> we've transformed houses. we've transformed businesses. bringing this town back. >> you're getting a hometown takeover. >> it's going to be awesome. >> hometown takeover special series. sunday, march 9th on hgtv. >> make it happen happening right now. >> defense secretary pete hegseth meeting with his counterpart at nato headquarters in brussels, belgium, on the agenda. russia's war on ukraine. he's the first member of the new trump administration to visit nato, and is expected to push the group and the eu to assume more responsibility, not just for ukraine, but for europe's security. and along the way, increase their defense spending. natasha bertrand is live in brussels. and natasha, i wonder. there was a great deal of concern in a second trump administration that trump might even leave nato, potentially, or at least reduce u.s. involvement. do european officials you speak with still have that concern? >> they're definitely concerned about the u.s. pulling back, right, especially when it comes to u.s. support for ukraine. and they have been bracing for that and anticipating for that. but

so far, you know, the readouts that we've been getting from officials that have been meeting with henk smith here all morning have been fairly positive. he's been meeting with several defense ministers here. he met with the u.k. defense minister. he met with the danish defense minister, which was obviously interesting given all of the interest in whether trump is going to try to do something with greenland. he also met with italy, and he is scheduled to meet here soon with germany. so he's making the rounds, introducing himself and no sign yet, of course, that there is any intention on the part of the u.s. to actually pull out of nato or withdraw from nato. what hegseth really wants to convey to nato allies is that they need to increase their defense spending a long time plea of the trump administration, of course, dating back to the first trump administration, as well as increase their support, their military support to the ukrainians, because the u.s. does not want to carry that burden anymore, according to trump administration officials. and so that is going to be on the agenda, particularly at the ukraine defense contact group,

which is going to be happening here later today as well. around 230 here local time, where hegseth is expected to give opening remarks. and he is not going to be chairing that meeting for the first time in almost three years. the u.s. is not going to be heading that meeting of a contact group that is aimed at funneling and coordinating that military assistance to ukraine. instead, it's going to be the u.k. so right there, you get a sense for how much the u.s. is trying to kind of pull back here and let europe take the lead on this, something that the europeans say, look, they're happy to do, but the ukrainians are a little bit more skeptical, saying, look, we of course, value our european allies, but without strong u.s. leadership, we're very afraid that the russians are going to try to steamroll through this, through this war and, of course, through any diplomatic negotiation that may take place in the future. jim. >> of course, the big test will be are the ukrainians comfortable with it? do they feel safe with any security guarantees that might be included? natasha bertrand in brussels, thanks so much. still coming up after the break. quite

a moment. paul mccartney breaking out the hits for a small audience last night in new york. would love to be inside the room there. that and more in our morning roundup. plus, how republicans are trying to push back against court orders, stopping some of president donald trump's plans from going into effect all there is. >> with anderson cooper. listen, wherever you get your podcasts. i love that my daughter still needs me, but sometimes i can't help due to burning and stabbing pain in my hands. so i use nervive. >> nervive clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as seven days. >> now i can help again. feel the difference with nervive. >> ah, it's a good day to cough. oh no bye bye cough. >> later. chest congestion. hello. 12 hours of relief. >> 12 hours.

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growing. head to shipstation.com to start your free trial today. >> i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn. >> closed captioning is brought to you by uqora. help maintain a healthy urinary tract with uqora. >> uqora offers. >> uti relief and science backed supplements for proactive urinary health. >> life's too short. >> to be put on hold by utis. join us at uqora. com. >> they've latched onto this new shiny object called the rule of law. well, we'd like to welcome them to the concept. it would be admirable if they hadn't spent the last four years with their heads buried in the sand, while biden literally trampled over the rule of law with no objection. >> is that true? are we nearing a constitutional crisis now? a number of president donald trump's actions during his first

few weeks in office have already been paused by several courts and some of his closest allies, including the vice president, appear open at least to challenging the power of the judiciary. it's a trend that is concerning trump's opponents, as well as legal scholars, republicans, they say they're just following exactly what former president joe biden did. elon musk, sharing this screengrab of a post by former president biden bragging about his efforts to forgive student loan debt despite a supreme court ruling., the. >> supreme court. >> blocked me from relieving student debt, but they didn't stop me. so far, i've relieved student debt for nearly 5 million americans, a significant number of black borrowers. so you can chase your dreams. start a family. buy a first home, start a business, and so much more. and guess what? it grows the economy. it strengthens the economy. i'm going to keep it

going. >> we should note in his attempts to offer student loan forgiveness, former president biden did not defy a court order after the supreme court ruled against his student loan forgiveness plan. the biden administration tried to find different ways to cancel student loan debt. specifically, they tried to use other student loan forgiveness programs that were separate from the program. the supreme court struck down. joining me now is former u.s. attorney and cnn legal analyst michael moore. michael, good to have you this morning. >> good to see you, jim. >> so can you explain that difference legally? because the biden moves regarding student debt have become a talking point, a sort of what aboutism talking point for republicans when his moves or at least to talk about defying court orders, are criticized by his opponents. >> yeah, well, i'm glad to be with you. and i think you're 100% right to point out, in fact, that biden was not and did not violate court orders that came down. and that's sort of

been the threat we're hearing from trump and his team is they talk about this. but when biden tried to forgive student debt en masse to this wide group of people under the heroes act, which was a congressional act, the supreme court ultimately said that he had essentially overstepped his ability to control policy, and that he did not have the power to do that because congress controls the purse and he could not come in with those type of sweeping changes. and acts solely because he was the executive. he did find other ways through other programs, some through service oriented jobs, some through need based things that he allowed. and he implemented policies that had been existing and expanded those somewhat to cover the student debt. but he followed things that were already in place to, in fact, eliminate debt. for some people. that's the difference here, is that there's been this sort of sweeping musk paint brush that

has gone over the government and shut things down that have already been congressionally decided and put in place outside the power of the executive. and so that's the distinction that some of my republican friends who seem to be getting the vapors now that there's any question about the executive's authority, um, that's that's the difference that they're missing and why i would urge that. i saw earlier in your clip, the speaker, uh, is pulling things out of thin air when he suggests somehow that there's a reticence or a. recognition now, at least to the law. >> it's notable that the supreme court, in that decision, noted congress is constitutional power of the purse, as it were, because the concern is here, right, that when you look, for instance, at usaid money, this is both an agency and its funding that's already been approved, appropriated by acts of congress. and it was notable there are concerns that this

administration might be attempting to lay the groundwork for impoundment. uh, and i wonder, do you see that? do you see that groundwork being laid here? and how might the court view that? >> i mean, i think there may be an effort to do that. i think they are are much, uh, more savvy sometimes than we give them credit for. and so we hear things come out that essentially are setting the stage for what their next act might be. um, you know, i think that when you look at what's happened, uh, you've seen, what, 15 or 20 courts in various orders recently, or 15 or 20 orders that have come out, which has essentially said that this administration has so significantly overstepped the the courts have placed temporary injunctions, which means that things stop that. and that's a that's not a normal thing to happen. courts sometimes are reticent to, to get involved at this time, but they've essentially said, look, the status quo has got to be here. we've got to have more evidence. and you see that the administration has confused and

conflated this idea that they have some type of mandate that exceeds the authority of the of the courts, that they believe that the electoral authority somehow exceeds the the court's authority. that's just purely a lack of understanding of both the law and the constitution. >> well, looks like it might be tested in the courts. and we'll see how they rule right up to the supreme court. michael moore, always good to have you on. >> great to be with you, jim. thank you so much. >> coming up on cnn this morning, four fema officials have been fired ahead. what the homeland security department accused them of. plus, during president trump's meeting with king abdullah of jordan, he was not backing down on his proposal to simply take over gaza. jordan, making clear it won't accept that plan. >> we cannot afford any more refugees. our position is that we can rebuild gaza without gazans leaving gaza. >> hank used to suffer from what felt like a cold and flu

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>> ha! >> mucinex dm 12 hour. doesn't just quiet coughs. it treats coughs caused by excess mucus at the source and controls them for 12 hours. it's comeback season. stubborn chest congestion. try mucinex. 12 hour. >> cnn news central. next. >> new. this morning, cnn has learned some of the details surrounding the exchange for freed american teacher mark fogel from russia. fogel held prisoner in russia for three years. the kremlin has just confirmed a russian citizen held in the u.s. was released as part of that exchange. it gave no other details, nor did president trump. trump did say another american held abroad could be released today. >> what were the terms of this deal, mr. president? >> very fair, very, very fair, very reasonable. not like deals you've seen over the years. they were very fair. and i think that's going to lead. and where somebody else is being released tomorrow that you will know of.

>> joining me now is paul whelan. he himself was wrongfully detained in russia, held there for five and a half years. paul, thanks so much for joining this morning. >> yeah. good morning. my pleasure. thank you for having me. >> first, let me ask you your sense of what it feels like to wake up on your first day of freedom after years as a prisoner in russia. what do you think eric fogel is feeling this morning? >> well, he's waking up in the first world after spending three and a half in the third world. yeah. everything will be new to him. everything familiar will be just a surreal experience. >> i'm sure. what kind of support does someone like him need or should be getting at this point, given the stresses? i mean, one thing that always sticks in my mind, and this i'm sure was true for you, is that they never know how long they're going to be held, right? or if they will get out. and that that

fear has to cause enormous stress. >> it does. you know, it causes ptsd for all of us. the longer it goes on, the worse it is. he will need some social work psychology type counseling. he'll need medical and dental care. yeah. you know, the food in these camps is, um, is really bad. so he'll be malnourished. so it will take him probably two years to actually get back to normal. as we say. >> i'm sure. is there do you folks keep in touch? somewhat. i mean, i know you've made friendships relationships with with americans held even in other countries. iran for is this. for instance, is there something of a former hostage support group? right. because no one knows better what you've been through than than yourselves. >> actually, there is, um, there's a group of us that that stay in touch. you know, trevor reed, mark bowden, a few others. um, you know, one of the mikes from canada. um, him also, we

just get together sometimes in person. we chat on the phone. um, you know, if somebody needs to chat about what they're going through, you know, maybe they need some sort of help. we get together and do that. but, yeah, it's a it's an exclusive club. it's kind of like the club of presidents. you know, there's only a few of us. >> although i imagine it's a club you don't really want to be a member of, right. certainly not. not your own. your own choice. um, there, there was a russian released. we don't know the identity. and president trump would not say who was released. there is, as you know, a concern, right. that because each of these releases depends on an exchange that countries such as russia are incentivized to take the next american right and that someone else will be in danger soon? what's your read of that concern, and do you think it's a legitimate one? >> it is a legitimate concern. the russians hadn't taken

anybody since 1986 when they arrested me, and they saw that it was quite profitable. they got back the merchant of death, who was back in africa selling guns again. and, you know, it's it's an issue that that we have to address. deterrence is what i keep speaking with the government about, um, coming up with ways to, to meaningfully deter not with, you know, sanctions that don't work or sanctions that don't have any teeth, but meaningful deterrence. um, part of it is that we need we need diplomatic relations with the countries that are doing this so that they will bring it to an end. and instead of using hostages like me and, and mark, um, you know, they'll use other political capital. >> yeah. well, listen, we're glad you're free, and we're glad to see another american free. and eric fogel this morning. thanks so much for joining and sharing your experience with us. >> yeah, thanks very much. it's glad for the for him to be home us as well. >> well, president trump is not

backing down on his plans to simply take over gaza during his meeting yesterday with the king of jordan, king abdullah. the president said the u.s. is simply going to take ownership. >> there is nothing to buy. it's gaza. it's it's a war torn area. we're going to take it. we're going to hold it. we're going to cherish it. >> mr. president, take it under what authority? it is sovereign territory. >> under the u.s. authority. >> trump's plan, which would require the forced relocation of 2 million palestinians, is not being well received by the palestinians themselves. >> i say to trump that we will die in our country. we are not prepared to abandon our country. palestine is for palestinians. we do not belong to any other country. >> i urge you, president trump, leave us alone and let us live. let us rebuild gaza. we can make it better and more beautiful than it used to be. >> palestine is for palestinians. this is.

>> well known. >> palestine was here before. trump and it will be here after trump. no one has the right to divide palestine or gaza or the west. >> bank. >> joining us now is vali nasr. he's professor at johns hopkins university, former senior adviser at the state department. vali, good to see you. thanks so much for joining this morning. >> thank you. >> it's been remarkable to me to watch and hear from some in washington, a defense of this plan, right, to say, sure. u.s. take ownership to me. 2 million palestinians can find homes elsewhere. you know better than having them go home to a place that has been so destroyed by war. that's easy to say in an air conditioned studio in washington. the arab world has quite a different view. can you describe that view right now? how they would perceive america taking over a piece of land in the middle east and displacing its people? >> well, first of all, there is

a shock and awe in the region, and there's sort of incredulity that president trump could even think about this, that he feels like the united states essentially is going to occupy arab land without any invitation by the locals, without consulting not only the people, but even the governments in the region, that somehow he's going to solve what is now several decades problem with just essentially removing the population from gaza and putting them somewhere else without recognizing that this has not worked. even when palestinians moved into refugee camps in lebanon, in syria, in egypt, in gaza itself, after 1948, after 1967, and over the years. and so what they see is basically a catastrophe, not only for palestinians, but also it would make it very difficult for this region to have an alliance with the united states. if the u.s. behaves in this manner, not only not consulting the region, but

also taking steps that put the governments in the region at jeopardy, that angers the population in the region. and nobody sees this actually as a solution that would work. >> yeah, you could see that. i think in the jordanian king abdullah's face as he was asked about this while sitting next to president trump in the oval office yesterday. i want to play how he responded in that moment. get your thoughts on the other side. >> we have. >> to. >> keep in mind that. there is. a plan from egypt and the arab countries. i think. let's wait. >> until the egyptians can come and present to the president and not get ahead of ourselves. again, this is something that we as arabs will be coming to, to the united states with something that we're going to talk about later. >> now, later via twitter, that the king was was more direct in expressing his opposition, as was his foreign minister on cnn last night. i mean, the question is, can jordan and egypt say no?

and potentially, i suppose, bear the consequences, because you could imagine trump saying, well, if you don't, i'm just going to pull aid. and the aid is essential to these countries absolutely. >> i mean, he gave the perfect diplomatic answer in washington, which is to punt the the whole problem onto egypt's lap and another meeting and on twitter, obviously, he was defiant, uh, in a way that, uh, would play to his audience and the audience in the arab world that he went to washington and he resisted. but in reality, they are stuck between a stone and a hard place. first of all, even the legitimacy of their alliance with the united states is in question in the minds of their people. i mean, what sort of an ally is the u.s. that has not only doesn't consult them, but has no care for their security and stability and is basically treat them as a dumping ground for, for for a population to be brought over there. and we also have to note that a majority of

jordanian population traces its ancestry to palestine, and it has very strong feelings about palestine. we have to note that the very stability of the monarchy in jordan, the stability of jordan itself, is in question. and i think jordanians are shocked that the united states doesn't care. and i think the egyptians are saying the same thing. the rest of the arab world is saying the same thing. it is not just shock at america's support for israel, which usually was the case, but it's actually how little it cares for the for its arab allies. >> no question. and now concerns that annexation of the west bank might be next. vali nasr, we appreciate you laying out so clearly former adviser to the state department. thanks for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> coming up next on cnn this morning, a new task force in washington on the declassification of federal secrets as the fbi discovers more than 2000 new files related to the assassination of jfk. plus, doge in defense mode. now,

democratic congressman greg landsman joins us live to discuss some of. >> the things. >> that i say will be. incorrect and should be corrected. so nobody's going to bat a thousand. i mean, any, you know, we will make mistakes, but we'll act quickly to correct any mistakes. >> kenner to support your brain health. >> mary. janet. hey. >> eddie. no. frasier. frank. frank. >> fred, how are you? >> fred. >> support up to seven brain health indicators, including memory. when you need to remember. remember. nariva. >> tempur-pedic designed the ergo pro smart base to help you fall asleep more easily. it's gentle massage and relaxing sounds help calm your mind. every night during our presidents day sale, save up to $500 on select adjustable mattress sets. >> when i started brightstar care, i had one focus to provide a higher standard of care safe, reliable, nurse led care right

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newfound flexibility with stamps.com. start your risk free trial today. >> closed captioning brought to you by guilt. >> visit gilt.com. >> today for up to 70% off designer brands. >> guilt has a designers that get your heart racing at insider prices. new every day. hurry, they'll be gone in a flash. designer sales at up to 70% off shop gilt.com today. >> the people voted for major government reform. there should be no doubt about that. that was on the campaign. the president spoke about that at every rally. the people voted for major government reform, and that's what the people are going to get. they're going to get what they voted for. >> something of an odd scene in the oval office, the world's wealthiest man there, standing at the right hand of the world's most powerful man, donald trump and elon musk appearing together to defend their slash and burn approach to federal government. that effort, led by musk's so-called department of government efficiency doge, has already resulted in massive cuts to

multiple agencies and is now preparing to lay off perhaps hundreds of thousands of federal workers. >> we have this unelected, fourth unconstitutional branch of government, which is the bureaucracy, which has in a lot of ways currently more power than any elected representative. and this is a this is not something that people want. >> you might have mentioned he's not elected either. yesterday's photo op also functioning as a display of unity in the face of quite public questions over whether the two men's egos can exist peacefully. president trump's position sitting behind the resolute desk, seemingly a rebuke to the new time magazine cover, which depicts depicted musk himself in that chair. but the two men showing a united front in both style and substance as trump and musk both made numerous claims of widespread fraud, abuse and corruption within the federal government, and trump once again criticized federal judges who

have issued temporary halts to parts of his agenda which are now facing legal challenges. >> we have massive amounts of fraud that we caught. as i said, much is incompetence and much is dishonesty. we have to catch it, and the only way we're going to catch it is to look for it. and if a judge is going to say you're not allowed to look for it, that's pretty sad for our country. i don't understand how it could even work. >> joining me now to discuss is representative greg landsman, democrat of ohio, a member of the house energy and commerce committee. congressman, thanks so much for taking time this morning. >> thanks for. >> having me. now, trump and musk have painted quite a broad brush in terms of causing calling, spending corruption, even when it's not corruption. right. it's some of it appears to be just spending they don't like, but they have enormous amount of power here. i wonder, do democrats have a plan to slow any of this down, or are are you as the party effectively leaving it to the courts? >> well, there's a couple of

things. one is the congress is supposed to step up and check the the executive. that's the you know, that's how the constitution was set up. and so, you know, public opinion has to shift. and democrats are going to, you know, obviously play a role in shifting public opinion to make sure that people understand what's going on here so that they start to call their republican members of congress because they're in charge of the united states congress. and congress is supposed to check the executive and put guardrails in place. but what you're seeing in elon musk is not just the world's richest man, but he is trying to become the first trillionaire ever. and he has, by being empowered by trump, hacked into our data system, hacked into our payment systems, and is purging the federal government. he stands to make so much money. he already has made, you know, billions, tens of billions of dollars on federal contracts. and the markets know this. and so his ability to get

inside and create this kind of chaos and move money, potentially to him and to his companies, will result in him and his net worth going up even higher. i mean, he, you know, since the election, $200 billion in new new wealth for elon musk. and so now the american people are dealing with higher prices and the kind of political corruption, potentially, that is incredibly damaging. and so, you know, for democrats, they have to be or we have to be very clear about what's happening. >> one thing he hasn't, at least i'm not aware of, it is, is looked at to see if any of his large federal contracts involved wasteful spending. we'll see if that if that ends up one of his targets as well. i want to turn to russia's war on ukraine because the president said, in light of the release of marc fogel, that that could be a sign of good faith that might

lead to some progress in negotiations over ending the war. you have met with a bipartisan group of members of congress on ukraine and as, as you know, and as folks watching may know, there are many republicans who are quite vocal supporters or have been of ukraine. are they confident? is that group that bipartisan group confident that president trump is going to stand for a just resolution of the war from the perspective of ukrainians? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, that's my sense. so i'm not speaking for anyone else, but, you know, the the folks that we met with were members of the parliament in ukraine and they talked about the the strategic positions that russia has taken, how valuable that land is in terms of minerals and resources, and what's going to happen to that land. they also talked about the tens of thousands of children that have been taken from them. and now those children are in the

custody of, in some instances, russian oligarchs. >> the kidnaping. >> and if our state department does not act, that would be a huge betrayal, not just to eastern europe and global stability, but to the american people who have no patience for that kind of thing. and so my sense is, is that congress will put pressure ultimately, hopefully, on the administration to ensure that putin is is stopped, does not advance further. and, you know, the idea that they would sort of split up land or he would get ukraine just means that there would be a larger war, a broader war in eastern europe and europe in general, which will be incredibly costly to the american people. >> i mean, the question is, would russia take that signal as carte blanche or an invitation, right, to claim the next piece of land, whether that be in ukraine or elsewhere in europe?

>> you don't appease putin. that is not a path to go down. we did that before in the 40s and the late 30s, where we tried to appease hitler. it did not work. it won't work with putin. >> yeah, there's a churchill quote that an appeaser is someone who feeds the crocodile expecting to be its last meal. congressman greg landesman, thanks so much for joining us. appreciate it. we are now 55 minutes past the hour. here's your morning roundup. a recall for some canned tuna products sold at stores such as kroger, walmart and costco. officials say there was a defect in making the pull tab on the lids, and if it cannot seal properly, there's a risk of food leaking or becoming contaminated. contaminated with botulism? that's bad. the brands include jenin van camps and some store brands as well. the homeland security department says it fired four fema officials over payments that the agency sent to house migrants in new york city. the department said without evidence, the officials sent the

payments without approval from leadership. >> it was incredible. this is actually. >> my 10th time seeing. >> paul mccartney. i have no words for it. >> paul mccartney put on a surprise concert in manhattan last night at the bowery ballroom. holds about 600 people, 600 lucky people. he announced the show earlier in the day on instagram. people stood in line in the cold to get tickets, just one per person. they were sold out within 30 minutes. federal secrets could soon become known. there is a new task force on capitol hill focused on declassifying secrets. >> for far. >> too long, the american people have had reasonable questions of what their government. which they fund. every day. keeps hidden about certain issues. and for far too long, the federal government has not answered these questions. >> the fbi just announced it discovered 2400 new files related to president john f

kennedy's assassination, following an order from president trump to release classified documents and other files. the task force plans to include on the assassinations of rfk and the reverend doctor martin luther king jr.. jeffrey epstein's list the origins of covid, the nine over 11 terror attack, and a favorite ufos. my panel is back. i mean, what do you think of all this? i mean, this is like the land of the conspiracy theory, right? the conspiracy theory that won't die. is this mat going to help answer those questions or just add more fuel? >> well, we'll see, i think around jfk. i think what a lot of this centers around most likely is, is a man named george joannides, who ran a lot of cia covert action, especially around miami and new orleans, had a lot of contact with lee harvey oswald. look, i'm pretty bearish that anything that will break open the jfk assassination is going to be sitting into some file in washington, d.c. or somewhere else. but i think it's good because i think overclassification our government is a major problem. the fact that we're still finding over what, 60 years

after the assassination, there's just 22,500 documents laying around somewhere is a good thing. >> true. i mean, here's the thing. trump himself has waded into these waters, going so far as to accuse ted cruz's father of somehow being an baselessly being involved. i mean, it's part of a broader. no one trusts the government kind of thing. >> absolutely. and to me, this feels more like this is a way to keep that shiny object tinkling bright. for those of trump supporters who are into this, right. that there are reasons not to trust the government. it's also a way to deflect from what i think will be real questions about the potential for corruption, like 32 investigations throughout 11 agencies. new york times has a great piece on it today, just involving elon musk. i mean, we've got 11 other billionaires in the cabinet. and i think it's again, it's a it's an effort to, you know, say, look over here. well, maybe other things are going on over here. >> and then it's a consistency question. transparent on some things and not not not others. which is which is legitimate.

and zolan i mean, there are a lot of questions i will say in that list. declassifying details on covid origins, i think, could be. a good thing. quite valuable. >> absolutely. i mean, that's something that, you know, the public has obviously made clear that there's great interest in, and it could lead to information that could hopefully prevent the next pandemic as well. if you made that public. i do think it's important to say, too, i don't i wouldn't want the public to to come off with the impression that the government has basically hid all these secrets around this tragedy. 1992 law says that within 25 years, the government should release documents related to the tragedy, the assassination of president kennedy, 320,000 documents released. so out of 320,000 documents, 99% released. >> so far. there's a reason they want to keep some of the secret sources and methods. one of them, you don't want to expose sources in the way that cia gathers its information. thanks so much to the panel. as always. thanks to all of you for joining us. i'm jim sciutto, cnn news central