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thursday, february 13th. right now on cnn this morning. >> oh, i'd like it to be closed immediately. look, the department of education is a big con job. >> more firings at federal agencies. terminations now underway at the department of education and small business administration. it's going to affect a lot of people. plus. >> i think they have to make peace. their people are being killed, and i think they have to make peace. >> peace talks. president trump and vladimir putin discuss ending the war in ukraine. what's not clear is ukraine's role in its own future. what will ukraine's president have any say? and new this hour? hamas now says it will release hostages as planned this weekend. this after a dispute with israel over the gaza ceasefire. then. >> if the senate had a secret

ballot, i bet you that robert f kennedy jr. would never have come close to confirmation. >> well, now indeed, rfk jr.. is very close to confirmation. senators start voting on the nation's health and human services secretary in about an hour. just past 6 a.m. here on the east coast. here's a live look at the capitol. a little cloudy this morning. good morning everyone. i'm jim sciutto in for kasie hunt. great to have you with us. and new this morning a wave of firings is now under way here in washington. donald trump and elon musk charging ahead at full speed in their quest to drastically reduce the federal workforce. last night, some employees at the department of education and small business administration began receiving letters informing them, quote, the agency finds, based on your performance that you have not demonstrated that your further employment, employment at the agency would be in the public

interest. the full scope of the firings is not clear yet. so far, the trump administration has not said exactly how many people will be impacted. the wider doge driven effort to fire federal workers receiving a vital legal boost. yesterday, a federal judge allowed the president's so-called deferred. resignation offer to proceed despite pausing it. the white house saying that around 75,000 federal workers have now accepted the offer, which claims to trade them months of pay in exchange for willingly leaving their jobs. that's close to 4% of the nation's roughly 2 million civilian federal workers. as president trump and elon musk look for more places to slash funding and jobs, the department of education finds itself very much front and center. >> soon. do you want the department of education to be closed? >> oh, i'd like it to be closed immediately. look, the department of education is a big con job. we're ranked. so they ranked the top 40 countries in

the world. we're ranked number 40th, but we're ranked number 1 in 1 department. costs per pupil. >> joining me now to discuss isaac navarro, cnn senior reporter megan hayes, democratic strategist, former director of message planning for the biden white house. and joe walsh, former republican representative for illinois and host of the podcast the social contract. good to have you all here. i mean, you know, the question about these cuts, right? is they're clearly popular with some, uh, when do they start affecting average americans, is the question, joe. and is there is there a potential danger there for the trump administration that folks will begin to notice that they don't get services they used to rely on? >> yes. because as most americans right now really have no idea what's going on. i mean, think about that. most americans don't know what elon musk is doing. they're not going to feel the impact of this stuff until it hits. jim, i say this as a former member of

congress, that government is too big. we can look for efficiency and all of that. but i keep thinking about the rule of law. there's a legal way to do this, and this gets missed every time we talk about this darn near everything that trump and musk are doing right now is being taken to court and just unilaterally firing federal employees that congress has already appropriated money for. that story has got to be told. >> megan, the democrats strategy seems to be to fight this in court, right? they're still struggling to find not just a message, but but it seems someone capable of delivering delivering that message in a convincing fashion. who's going to step to the fore or is the democratic strategy? it strikes me that the democratic strategy is just wait for people to feel the pain. >> i mean, that's unfortunate, and i don't think that's going to be a good service for our country. i think that will be seen in the midterms. i do think that will end up being what happens. i don't think democrats know who the messenger is going to be. i don't think a lot of members of congress are stepping up to the plate. thank goodness for these legal organizations

that are out there suing, because the members of congress really are not providing that leadership right now. and i think they are starting to but they got it seemed like they got caught a little flat footed. i'm not sure what more they can do. i don't think protesting outside of these agencies is really helpful. i think it makes them look breathless. and i do think until people realize that their services are being cut, they are not going to understand what's going on here. so i think this is going to be something that will be felt in the midterms and in 2028, which unfortunately, donald trump will not feel. the effects of this will not impact donald trump. it will impact the republican party moving forward. >> unless he decides to run again, which he does occasionally say publicly. isaac, i wonder if that speed is part of the strategy here, right? is you keep pushing before folks notice and before you know it, 510% of the federal workforce is gone. >> yeah, the speed is definitely part of the idea here. look, we're three and a half weeks into the trump presidency and a lot has taken place. a lot of moves to fire and cut have been going on. and though these legal challenges are going on, they take time. even though even if they're successful, it will be

weeks and months from now for them to to fully go through. and there's also clearly part of the strategy from the trump folks is they'll win some of these lawsuits. and they got good news yesterday on one of them. right. so the more things that they can throw out there, the it's like playing the odds basically. >> yeah. joe i wonder is there any limit to republican support for this president? i mean, if you look at the the cabinet confirmations, right, going in, a lot of republicans were republicans were saying there is no way tulsi gabbard will get through or rfk jr. or pete hegseth and, you know, privately, privately, republicans would express opposition, not publicly. and eventually they all came around. what is there a limit to republican support? >> no, jim. no. and it's early to yell. i mean, my god, look back. matt gaetz would have been approved. yeah. looking back. so they all would have been approved when trump won in november, his hold on this party became permanent. and it really

incorporated everybody before the november election. jim, i'd have republicans privately tell me he's going to lose, and that's a good thing. they're all on board now, so there's going to be no help from republicans. >> right. but but also, donald. >> trump isn't the only person that can have these republicans losing their job. people vote for them. so i just think that a better strategy here would be to go into local media markets and make their constituents understand some of the things that they are voting for, because they can also be challenged by primary people that are not from donald trump and from other democrats. so it's interesting to me that they think that donald trump is the only person that controls their future, because it's not their constituents. >> do we get to. we'll get to test it. >> they know donald trump controls those base voters. >> and they've certainly scared a lot of these senators, for instance, on these cabinet votes, by saying we will primary you. and by the way, i have a guy here next to me who has the money to do it, to fund it on his own. stay here. there's a lot more to talk about. straight ahead. on cnn this morning, after a 90 minute phone call on the fate of a war that russia started, president trump announces a face to face meeting

with vladimir putin on the horizon. will ukraine play any role in peace talks on its future? plus, democrats try to land their punches in the house's doge subcommittee's first hearing. we're going to discuss live with democratic congressman glenn ivey and make the kennedy center, quote, hot again. president trump, now the head of the iconic performing arts organization, how he says he's going to shake it up in the midst of his ongoing culture war, push. >> so we took over the kennedy center. we didn't like what they were showing and various other things. we're going to make sure that it's good and it's not going to be woke. there's no more woke in this country. >> the boeing 747 has crashed in the lockerbie area. >> trying to find out. find out the why of it became everything. >> nothing is what it seems in the lockerbie story. >> lockerbie, the bombing of pan am flight 103. sunday at 9:00 on

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>> i'm anthony davis. i'm always dominating on the court. but one thing you may not know about me. i love pranking people. >> foul play with anthony davis sunday after nba all star coverage on cbs and stream next day on max. >> a truly monumental shift in u.s. foreign policy. donald trump calling for direct negotiations with vladimir putin to end russia's ongoing invasion of ukraine and the american president's opening move to make major concessions, giving russia several of its chief objectives before those talks even begin. >> they've been saying that for a long time that ukraine cannot go into nato. and and i'm and i'm okay with that. >> if you see any future in which ukraine returns to its pre 2014 borders. >> well, i think pete said today that that's unlikely, right. it certainly would seem to be unlikely. they took a lot of land and they fought for that land and they lost a lot of they

lost a lot of soldiers. but it would just seem to me and i'm not i'm not making an opinion on it, but i've read a lot on it, and a lot of people think that that's unlikely. >> of course, president trump didn't say there who took ukraine's land. it is russia. he's not mentioning who is still fighting to occupy that land and gain more of it. in fact, not once did president the president say the words russia or russian during those remarks in the oval office. he did, however, talk plenty about russian president vladimir putin. trump described his conversation with putin as, quote, highly productive and noted that the two leaders agreed to visit each other's countries. president trump later added that saudi arabia will likely host the first round of talks between the two. one man not invited at this point is president volodymyr zelenskyy. as ukrainians prepare to mark three years of war and over a decade since russia first invaded their territory, president trump isn't even sure they're vital to these talks. >> do you view ukraine as an equal member of this peace process?

>> um, it's an interesting question. i think they have to make peace. their people are being killed, and i think they have to make peace. i said that was not a good war to go into, and i think they have to make peace. >> that was not a good war to go into. the president seeming to suggest there that ukraine chose to be invaded by russia. since 2014, ukraine has lost almost a fifth of its territory to russian and russian backed forces in the country's south and the east. and since russia's full scale invasion coming up on three years ago next week, thousands, many thousands of ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been killed. hundreds of thousands more have been wounded in europe's bloodiest war since world war two. the un estimates more than 12,000 ukrainian civilians have been killed, many by russian drones and missiles striking deep and deliberately into cities and towns far away from the front lines. all of this

amounting to a fundamental change in america's approach, not just to ukraine, but to europe, to nato and to america's allies. here's trump's own former national security advisor, john bolton. >> president trump has effectively surrendered to putin before the negotiations have even begun. he has. now, it seems, exactly what he wants. putin doesn't want to negotiate with zelenskyy. he wants to negotiate with trump because he thinks he'll get more out of it. and he's absolutely right. i think putin couldn't be happier. i tell you, they're drinking vodka straight out of the bottle in the kremlin tonight. it was a great day for moscow. >> panel back with me now, joe, the ukraine war used to be a bipartisan effort when i was in ukraine for the invasion. when i returned, democratic and republican lawmakers said quite clearly and publicly they support ukraine. this shall not stand. that has changed. the facts of the war have not changed. that has changed. do you see the trump administration preparing to abandon ukraine

here. >> completely? jim, this is just so infuriating. but you just got to cut to the chase. i mean, none of this is surprising. and it makes sense what trump is doing. he's negotiating for putin. he's siding with putin. an american president is siding with vladimir putin. three years ago, putin invaded a sovereign country. i mean, think this is just madness, that three years later, trump and putin are getting together, as you said, where zelenskyy to negotiate some sort of peace deal when putin invaded that country. and my former party will be absolutely silent. this is despicable. >> megan, did democrats fail, including kamala harris and the election failed to explain sufficiently and successfully to american voters why a war like ukraine, or more broadly, standing up to russia matters to them? >> yeah, i. >> do think they did. but it's also hard to explain why democracy is on the line with nato countries when people can't afford their groceries

because they are worried about their issues here domestically and not worried about their foreign policy issues and things like nato, which are extremely important to withholding democracy and keeping wars off of our own shores. and so i do think we weren't successful in explaining that, but we weren't successful in solving the problems that were immediate to people, to be able to have them understand why some of these other issues that are much more abstract in their minds are important. >> i think in the last administration, when the trump when trump went beyond what used to be bipartisan u.s. foreign policy, he had checks inside his own administration who told him, well, like a john bolton, that that ain't right. that's not in our interests. or john kelly or others. they're all gone now. now, it is true. he does have people in his administration, marco rubio, mike waltz, among them, who previously thought these were important things. and their public comments backed that. but it doesn't appear that they're moving the president off this this change now. >> no, the people that he appointed to his administration, he wanted to be completely in fealty to him and following him.

it also in congress. right. you look at these confirmation votes, people who voted for pete hegseth and tulsi gabbard, who put themselves forward as being very serious about national security issues and taking all these things in real, real depth before, but have voted for people that they have previously been very critical of themselves. lindsey graham, incredibly critical of tulsi gabbard, but voted for her to be the new director of national intelligence. but look, with trump here, i think you have one of four things basically going on. one is possibly what joe said, that he's just doing what putin wants to is that he's actually going at this from a position of weakness, saying, i don't really care, i don't it doesn't affect me. but actually not taking a strong position for america three might be that he actually doesn't care. right. and it doesn't matter him. and four is that he has a view of the world where he wants to let other countries do what they do. maybe china will go into taiwan

now, but maybe he'll go into the panama canal. and what will happen at that point is that he will say, we've been following this standard procedure here, but it is the new trump world order. as far as. american influence around the world and what it will respond to. >> that's bad news for ukraine. it's bad news for taiwan. it's bad news for the nato alliance. it's a major change, and we're watching it play out before our eyes. stay with us. other news at home robert f. kennedy jr.. just hours away from all but certain confirmation, the senate to vote on the vaccine critic as the nation's health and human services secretary. plus. breaking this morning, hamas now says it will release israeli hostages over the weekend as the ceasefire deal calls for. we're going to have more on that when we return. >> welcome back. >> have i got news for you saturday at nine on cnn.

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life's too short to be put on hold by utis. join us at uqora. com. >> new this morning. hamas now says it will release hostages as planned on saturday. earlier in the week, it had threatened to postpone the next hostage release, accusing israel of breaking violating the cease fire deal. president donald trump urged israel to cancel the deal if hamas followed through on the threat. >> as far as i'm concerned, if all of the hostages aren't returned by saturday at 12:00, i think it's an appropriate time. i would say cancel it and all bets are off and let hell break out. >> the terror group said it made the decision to go ahead with the initial plan. after positive talks with mediators. cnn's salma abdelaziz joins me now. and sam, is the feeling now that this at least the first phase of the cease fire agreement will hold now it feels like things may go ahead as planned on saturday.

>> i think everyone is taking things a day at a time, jim. so what we understand now is after what was described as positive talks that were led by egypt and qatar, these are the mediators, of course, behind this cease fire deal, in addition to others. after those talks, hamas did say it will go ahead with the exchange on saturday. so normally we see just that morning it happens just a few hours before the actual exchange takes place that hamas releases the names of the hostages to be released that day. and then in exchange, we've seen several hundred palestinian prisoners at a time being released from israeli prisons. hamas saying that will go ahead. but it reiterated its stance that it wants to see the ceasefire deal implemented now. all of this began because hamas accused israel of violating the deal. specifically, they were concerned about tents, shelter, which are very needed right now in gaza. of course, most people have been displaced. homes are in ruins. hamas says it needs that vital aid to come into the

gaza strip and accuses israel of blocking it. now, israel says this isn't taking place, but behind the scenes, unofficial sources have said that that is happening, that we are not seeing these tents and shelters come through the enclave as they're needed. again, these are minor in the grand scheme of things. these are more minor disagreements that are being hammered out in these negotiating rooms. the more major issue of president trump trying to relocate all of gaza, that's still very much looms over the cease fire talks. so the hope for now for these mediators is that saturday goes off as planned for hamas. the hope is that they demonstrate that they are a willing partner in these negotiations. and for the arab world at large, they're trying to bide their time here, jim, until they can propose an alternative that they hope and pray. trump will at least listen to. >> we know jordan and egypt, certainly not comfortable at all with the prospect of absorbing an entire people. salma abdelaziz, thanks so much. still

coming up after the break. kash patel nomination fight to lead the fbi faces a critical vote today. plus, president trump giving an okay to move forward with his buy outs to shrink the federal workforce. we're going to break it down. live with democratic congressman glenn ivey coming up. >> donald trump and elon musk are recklessly and illegally dismantling the federal government. >> if we're going after waste. fraud and abuse. let's start with abuse. >> abuse of power. >> the onboarding, the benefits. time off requests, fixing payroll. it has to stop. >> every action hero. when necessary. >> was that necessary? >> no. paycom automates everything. >> get paycom. >> and make the. >> unnecessary. >> some problems could be the start of a domino effect. periodontics. active gum repair. breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a toothpaste from periodontics.

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we're now learning at least 20 people were injured. police say the car rammed into a group of protesters. all happening just hours before. world leaders are set to visit munich for a high level security conference. vice president jd vance is leaving paris now for munich. cnn's sebastian shukla joins us now from the scene. and wow, quite a scene behind you. any sense now as to whether this was deliberate? >> yeah. >> jim, we just don't know. as you just said, we the only things we do know are that 20 people have been injured in this scene and that the attack that took place behind me, i'm going to just step out of the way. you can survey the scene. police officers have been going through meticulously the boot or the trunk of that white car there. and as you can see, there is a enormous amount of debris that has been left by the attack. and the 20 people, at least, who have been hurt here you can see, you know, the remnants of shoes. you can see those tin foil blankets which are used to keep people warm as they're delivered

first aid. the only thing that we do seem to know is that the the incident was perpetrated against a trade union group here in germany that was demonstrating. and so we're still waiting to learn exactly what has happened here. but a police officer told me just before you came to me, jim, that we still don't know if there have been any fatalities yet. they said they are just not prepared to comment at this time. but as you mentioned, jim, you can see this is an intersection and there are police in every single direction. but not only that, the police are crawling all over this city. so questions will be asked. how did this attack allow itself to come about and how did it happen? and you know, we have heads of state, we have governments. we have policymakers. we have the vice president of the united states. we have the secretary of state marco rubio coming here in a matter of hours to to discuss world issues. and in munich, at the munich security conference, of which there is police everywhere, there are police in hotels, there are police outside cafes, there are police outside the pedestrian areas, and more

importantly, jim, on a local level, just for germany, this is another attack that has taken place inside this country, which is grappling with the issue of immigration and the attacks that have been perpetrated by immigrants. we don't know the ethnicity of this man just yet, but those will be the questions that will circle now inside germany. and just trying to figure out how has this happened again, jim? >> yeah, deadly and deliberate attack on a christmas market just during the holidays in germany as well. sebastian shukla, thanks so much. all right. turning now to this, the trump administration forging ahead, working to implement its agenda, including downsizing the federal government's workforce. >> the people. voted for major government reform. there should be no doubt about that. that was on the campaign. the president spoke about that at every rally. the people voted for major government reform, and that's what the people are going to get and as all of this happens, democrats have little leverage in the fight with a republican

controlled washington. >> still, they're pushing back against trump's latest moves, often in court, questioning his use of billionaire elon musk in his effort to cut government waste. musk, of course, not elected. >> i'm trying to figure out exactly what it is that the republicans believe our job is, because right now they have relinquished their constitutional duties over to an unelected bureaucrats. >> if this. committee were serious about rooting out waste from our federal government, than. >> today's whole hearing. >> would be about how musk and donald trump are firing the independent watchdogs who have done this work for decades. >> in the last congress, chairwoman green literally showed a pic. >> in our. oversight congressional hearing. so i. >> thought i'd bring one. >> as. >> well. now. >> this of course, we know is. >> president elon musk. >> he's also the world's richest man joining me now, democratic congressman glenn ivey of maryland. >> i got to ask you about that

because democrats are looking for a voice now and looking to convince the american people that they can manage this better. was that moment an example of good democratic leadership on this? i mean, i don't even want to say i mean, you know, the phrase was that a smart messaging moment? >> i mean, i think the the issue is whether we can break through, especially with legacy media, and be heard. right now, the president has the platform, he's got the megaphone. it's been a challenge for democrats to break through that and have our voices heard on what our concerns are. you heard there about elon musk. and i think the things that he's doing without having any election behind him. he hasn't been vetted, no security clearances for him or his team, i think are all legitimate issues. but i think the larger point, though, is actually trump won on the economy and he's not doing anything to deal with that. in fact, it's going in the opposite direction. >> your district in the d.c. area, and now you have major cuts underway to the federal workforce. and i'm certain there are folks in your district

who work for the federal government here. what will the impact of that be? just a, you know, beginning on the washington community here. and i should also note, as many have, that a lot of federal workers don't work in washington. they work around the country. so other communities are going to be feeling this. >> yeah. that's right. 80% of federal workers work outside of the washington, dc metropolitan area. and, you know, there's two rounds of two types of impacts that could be had, certainly from an economic standpoint, a region like ours could be certainly affected. there are other regions where, for example, they have large installations. virginia, for example, has a lot of impact that it could be facing as well. but the other is, you know, the services that are provided by the government. what gets cut when these services are cut, when these employees are cut and, you know, inspecting the the water, the food, all of those things, air traffic control, tsa, border patrol, all of those things are, i guess, on the chopping block because instead of being surgical about

it, they're using more of a chainsaw in the way they're going about this. >> is that basically the democratic strategy here? and i've heard this from democrats that they're basically waiting and relying on americans feeling the pain of donald trump's policies, and that then benefiting democrats. is that the plan? and do you think that's a sufficient plan? >> that's certainly not my goal, because what that means is that people get hurt. i mean, depending on what you cut, let's say meals on wheels, for example, you could actually have people die based on that. and i don't want to lose people in the effort to make a political point. but if we're not able to stop the trump administration from doing some of these cuts, that includes usaid and the impact around the world. you kids could starve to death. so we need to make sure we do everything we can to prevent that. but if that's something we're not able to block, that will be the result. >> kash patel is on the cusp of being confirmed as the fbi director, and it's interesting because patel, going back to the first trump administration when his name was floated in the

latter days of the administration to lead the fbi, there were many republicans in the trump administration who said, no way. and and that's been true with a lot of trump's cabinet picks this time around that initially they said, no way. and one by one, they've been confirmed. what will his leadership mean for the fbi? and do you fear that he will use the organization to go after trump's political enemies? >> i do because he said that that's what he would do. now, he obviously backed away from that during the confirmation hearings, but basically that's what he's been saying. he wrote a book that laid that out. he had an enemies list in the book. and to your point about republicans who stated concerns about it, you know, those are people from the first trump administration, like former attorney general barr, nsa advisor john bolton. i mean, people that were very much in the loop who got to know him and worked with him have stated that he's like the last guy who should be fbi director. but, you know, if he gets confirmed, i think it's a real risk for the united states. the team that trump is bringing in to lead,

you know, defense, national security and public safety, certainly from the attorney general spot, i think, are really undermining the safety and security of the united states. >> do you there's a phenomenon in washington. you might be aware of it. i'm sure you are. of republicans privately criticizing some of these moves, including these nominations to cabinet secretaries, but fearing the repercussions if they said anything publicly. and i've certainly heard that. do your republican colleagues speak to you privately and say, this is a bridge too far? wish i could do something about it, but can't? >> yeah, i've heard that for sure. and, you know, gaetz was part of that too. now, the difference between gaetz and this crowd gabbard kennedy henk smith, you know, he was derailed before it came to the point where they had to vote. right? but, you know, if it comes to a vote, apparently they're going to vote for whatever trump puts in front of them. yeah. >> congressman glenn ivey, appreciate you taking the time this morning. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up next on cnn this morning, confirmation day also

for rfk jr.. how the vaccine skeptics now a near certainty to become the head of health and human services. plus, president trump says negotiations to end russia's war on ukraine will begin soon. a key piece to that puzzle. ukraine ceding its own territory. >> trump said that he had a nice phone call with vladimir putin. putin was like, i told you, i wouldn't forget valentine's day. i knew. the only awkward part of the call was when putin said, is the president there? and both trump and ellen said, yes. >> taxes was feeling so stuck now taxes is a turbotax expert doing everything while you do your thing. now this is taxes. intuit turbotax. >> when winter season hits, emergency supports your immune

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postured against ukraine. russia deployed intelligence operatives from the fsb to forcibly replace ukraine's elected leaders. u.s. intelligence believes it intended to kill the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. vladimir putin, to justify the invasion, denied ukraine's right to exist or even its history as an independent nation, which he continues to do today. yesterday, president trump said this was, quote, not a good war for ukraine to get into. as if russia's full scale invasion was ukraine's choice, it wasn't. and right up until the final days before the invasion, the ukrainian leader was speaking to the french president, emmanuel macron, about a peace plan. russian leaders took part in those discussions as well, even as they were massing their forces and russian commanders were intercepted by western intelligence, finalizing their invasion plans. many were understandably skeptical, given russia had repeatedly violated peace plans and let the record

show had already invaded ukraine in 2014, taking possession of crimea and parts of the east. i was in ukraine during the invasion, and what struck me when i returned was the bipartisan outpouring of support for ukraine against russia. then senator, now secretary of state marco rubio, publicly questioned putin's mental state and even chided skeptics of ukraine's readiness to join nato as those who, quote, either don't know what they're talking about or are lying, end quote, then, congressman, now, national security advisor mike waltz said, quote, i think it's absolutely in america's interest to stop putin cold end quote, the facts of russia's ongoing invasion are straightforward. russia invaded ukraine with the goal of taking over an independent nation. those facts have not changed. only the politics in this country. joining me now is alexander vindman, retired lieutenant colonel in the u.s. army and

former director of european affairs for the national security council. always good to have you on. thank you so much for joining. >> thanks, jim. >> looking forward. >> to discussion. >> did you hear in president trump's words yesterday and the secretary of defense pete hegseth words as he was in brussels, brussels plans for this administration to, in effect, abandon ukraine? >> yes. >> i did. i think. >> trump wants a peace deal. he said he was going to have it before inauguration. he said he was going to have it day one. um, he has no plans to get there, but he wants a deal. so he's a kind of personality that needs to learn lessons on his own, his own way. nothing that happened before matters. so the council of marco rubio mike waltz or anybody else that says that you need to drive a hard bargain with russia is irrelevant. they're going to go in with trump's own tone, which is appeasing putin, pandering to him, catering to him somehow

trying to ingratiate with putin to get putin to compromise, and meanwhile pressuring ukraine. this this is obviously is the worst kind of way to go into a negotiation. ukraine is willing to bend over backwards. there is nothing that's pretty much off the table except complete capitulation, which is what trump is kind of demanding and articulating. ukrainians are not going to do that no matter what kind of conversation the president has with with putin and putin only will operate under the premise of pressure. he will bank the things that we're given. he was given yesterday, the, you know, agreement that ukraine wouldn't join nato, that ukraine would cede territory, that ukraine will ultimately lie outside europe. and he's going to move forward from that position. so it's just a terrible start to any peace negotiations. >> does ukraine have any credible plan b? european nations, some of them say they

will stick with ukraine, but they don't have nearly the military that the u.s. does or the resources without the u.s. is ukraine in effect, out in the cold? >> it is out in the cold, but it is not entirely lost. i think the narrative is completely wrong. that russia, absent u.s. support, that russia will devour ukraine in its entirety. that's just not the reality. ukraine will end up in a weaker position. it will not get the kind of support for some critical systems. it needs primarily artillery, long range systems. a lot of the stuff that we provided them otherwise is, is frankly not irrelevant, not that relevant on the battlefield anymore. they have their own things that they're developing with their own defense sector drones in particular. the europeans will be there to back them up. not in the same way that the u.s. could, but the ukrainians will carry on. they're going to take a massive hit on morale, with the u.s. dropping out as a supporter, it

will make things harder on the battlefield, but we need to understand that russia is having a very, very difficult time. russia is taking massive losses. russia has no military means to achieve its aims, except for a slow, grinding, attritional warfare campaign that really has no prospects of achieving anything major in the coming months. the best thing that they could hope for is bluffing the way they are, trying to see if they can win a deal with with trump, where trump takes the foot, his foot off their neck, figuratively speaking, for the economy, which is teetering on the brink and gives them a lifeline, that is what they're hoping for, that that is a good chance that they might get that. and that is extremely dangerous and kicks the can down the road for peace talks. >> do you see anyone in this trump administration, rubio and waltz, among them previously strong supporters of ukraine, speaking up to the president and saying the country cannot let ukraine fall?

>> i think that tension is playing out behind the scenes. there's no doubt about it. you could hear, you know, just days ago, marco rubio saying he's going to the munich security conference and the the most important topic on on the agenda would be ukraine. mike waltz also, um, articulating somewhat of a similar strong line, but it was always going to end up where trump is going to get his way, where dj vance was going to get his way. all this behind the scenes kind of negotiating really kind of shifts to to whatever trump says publicly or kind of lays out. and they are going to fold or fall in line. let's say, let's say not fold, because they might still try to fight that fight behind the scenes, but they're going to fall in line and carry through with what the president says. >> yeah, there's been a lot of falling in line of late lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, we appreciate you joining this morning. >> thank you. jim. >> it is close to 54 minutes past the hour. and here is your morning roundup. elon musk now saying he will withdraw his

almost $100 billion bid to purchase openai. but he has one condition. the doge head, who founded a competing artificial intelligence company, we should note, says he will back off if openai remains a nonprofit organization. new this morning more trump tariffs. the president set to enact taxes on goods imported from many of america's trading partners, including india, brazil and vietnam. those new tariffs are designed to match tariffs that many other countries place on american goods. and scary moments after a united jet went off the runway in snowy weather at saint louis airport. the plane slid onto the grass, as you can see there after landing. thankfully, no one was hurt. emergency crews managed to get everyone off safely. and a measles outbreak in west texas has now grown to 24 cases. and now there's another one in new mexico near the texas border. the patients, all unvaccinated. most children ages 5 to 17, some hospitalized. last year, there

were 285 reported measles cases across 33 states. so to that point, robert f. kennedy jr., who is a vaccine skeptic himself, is on the verge of taking over america's health agency in the coming hours. the senate is set to vote on his confirmation to serve as the next secretary of health and human services, after he largely won over some republican senators skeptical of his views on vaccines. democrats holding the senate floor wednesday to oppose him. >> americans didn't vote to bring back measles. americans didn't vote to bring back polio. >> mr. kennedy. >> masquerades as a crusader for healthy foods and someone who just wants to quote, i just want to ask some questions. i just want to study the science. america, the senate. don't be fooled rfk is. >> not the best or the

brightest. >> he will not. >> bring back. >> camelot or make. >> america healthy. >> again. >> but his ignorance. >> of science just. >> might make people sick again. >> and yet, he's going to be the secretary of health and human services. you know, to have that measles outbreak is notable. joe walsh, in that that's the fear, right? is that if you elevate a vaccine skeptic to this role, that that increases what is already a phenomenon here, vaccine skepticism, which has measurable consequences, the return of diseases. why didn't that move republican senators off his nomination? >> donald trump i disagree with senator elizabeth warren. this is what we voted for, right? america voted for rfk jr. to head up a $2 trillion health portfolio in america. senator bill cassidy, a guy i served with in the house, a doctor, a physician who in his bones knows that kennedy is not qualified, is voting for kennedy. yeah.

this is what it's trump. this is what they voted for. >> senator mitch mcconnell. i mean, he voted to advance the nomination. not clear if he's going to vote for him. suffered from polio himself. and by the way, there are concerns about polio returning as well. i mean, i don't i don't mean to direct fire at the democrats, but these are these are arguments. i think you could say you lost with american voters in this last election. >> oh, absolutely. >> and i think democrats are trying to do what they can here. but the fact of the matter is, they do not have the majority of the senate. and it could have all been a different story if 15,000 people in pennsylvania voted a different way. i mean, this is these are elections have consequences, which we were talking about earlier in the break. but this is what america voted for. rfk was supporting donald trump. he was out there saying these things. his views are not unknown to the american people. so this is what they want. >> some republicans agreeing to vote for rfk. they say with conditions. have a listen to what senator josh hawley said. >> i'm going to vote for him based on his commitments to be based on life, that he said that he would implement president trump's agenda from his first

term. he was very clear about that. he made a series of commitments to me on that, both privately and publicly. >> you believe him. >> on the abortion issue? >> oh, yeah. he testified under oath that he would reimpose all of the pro-life protections. or if he doesn't do that, we'll have a big problem because he told me under oath he would. so yeah, i believe him. if not, it's it's not going to be pleasant. >> yeah. >> i mean, that's a quite a large issue to, to to flip on for your senate confirmation here, but it appears there's another senator willing to take rfk jr. at his word. >> and there are more there. katie britt from alabama who says, oh, well, i've gotten commitments that we won't have nih funding cuts that affect people in alabama. susan collins of maine also have gotten these commitments. look, these are republican senators who keep saying, yeah, i believe him. he's not going to do all the things that he said he would do or he's talked about doing or and they're doing all these acrobatics every which way around. and it's because of one of two things, either because they support doing whatever donald trump wants or because

they are scared of not doing whatever donald trump wants. and that is what's going on here. it is not because i think and at least some of these cases, they have truly internalized the belief that they think rfk jr. would be good. as the health and human services secretary and you hear them saying it between the lines of what they're saying publicly and some of them and what they're saying privately. >> joe does does trump get what he wants on his spending package? as we approach negotiations there? >> no, i actually think that's where there's going to be a battle. i think, on the budget stuff, freedom caucus, some of the more conservative members are going to really. >> push back. and we've seen there's there's precedent for that. we've seen that before with the freedom caucus holding, holding their line. joe, megan, isaac, good to have you. thanks so much. i'll buy you a cup of coffee. thanks to all of you for joining us as well. i'm jim sciutto, cnn news central starts right now.