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want access to. we have new reporting. >> plus u.s. and russian officials meeting tomorrow for high stakes talks in saudi arabia over the war in ukraine. but some important players won't be there, notably ukraine itself. why? president zelenskyy says he will not accept any deal that's made without his country at the table. and deadly winter storms carving a path of destruction across the southeast. but the threat is not over yet. a new round of severe weather set to bring an arctic blast of snow and brutal cold to millions across the country. we're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here at cnn news central. >> there are some serious new privacy concerns today, as elon musk and his government efficiency team target the irs. a source telling cnn doge is expected to imminently gain access to an agency database

that contains things like personal and financial data of millions of american taxpayers. we're talking social security numbers, banking information, tax returns. this is a system so sensitive, improper use of it could lead to prison time. the move is all part of musk and doj's efforts to drastically shrink the federal workforce. cnn's jeff zeleny is live for us near president trump's mar-a-lago estate in west palm beach, florida. jeff, what is the white house saying here? >> well, look, brianna, the white house is defending this latest agency for doge to have access to. we've seen it really week by week, day by day. this elon musk led department of government efficiency going across the government. but the irs certainly is so different than every other agency because, as you said, it has the the personal information, the social security numbers, the bank account numbers, even a specific personal information like adoption records if you're paying child support, et

cetera.. so that is what is causing alarm from so many officials, because usually this information is only accessible by a career officials, not political appointees. and of course, that's what this doge employee would be. he's a young engineer who works for elon musk, and they are looking for government efficiencies. they are trying to streamline programs here. but the white house is pushing back on all this alarm from democrats in the senate and elsewhere saying this. white house spokesman, harrison fields, is saying waste, fraud and abuse have been deeply entrenched in our broken system for far too long. it takes direct access to the system to identify and fix it. so they go on to say that this is needed to really go deep into the irs systems to fix it. but the question here is what will be done with this information? so senators elizabeth warren and ron wyden are are calling on the irs commissioner to present a plan for the type of access that doge would have. of course, this is all coming as the government

is being constructed. of course, we heard about last last week, those mass firings, questions about that at the irs as well. of course, during tax season, as everyone is preparing to file their tax returns, this is something that's on top of mind. but again, the white house is defending this as the president is spending a long weekend here near mar-a-lago. >> brianna. all right. thank you jeff i just got caught yawning at the as you were tagging out there. but your report was fascinating. and i just want you to know that. thank you so much, boris. >> as elon musk puts u.s. agencies on the chopping block, paranoia is seeping into the federal workforce. in recent days, the trump administration has fired thousands of federal workers as musk and the doge team gain access to agency computer systems containing private information. the unprecedented moves are leaving many on edge worried about what may come next. cnn's sean lingus is here with his new reporting. sean, what are you hearing from employees about what's happening?

>> well, boris, we talked to over a. >> dozen federal workers from over five agencies, and they all sounded a consistent theme of of of concern, paranoia, um, newfound concerns that they're being watched. now, discerning reality from that paranoia is a little difficult. we asked the white house if any policies had changed for monitoring communications, and they didn't directly answer the question. they said no laws were being broken and that elon musk and doge were looking to root out fraud, waste and abuse. however, we already see this is having a big impact on the workforce. we talk about people who are not having the conversations that they would normally have at work, out of fear that it might be misconstrued as somehow anti-trump, um, people are turning off their their phones all the time. people are going to the water cooler to have conversations in person rather than have them on on a web chat, for example. and we asked one va employee if they really thought that they were being recorded in the office and they said no, but is it impossible? of course not. because you told me, you know,

if you told me that a 19 year old by the name of big balls would be accessing state department information, i would say you're crazy if you told me that a month ago. so there's this new found fear and concerns that are already affecting people's behavior. and boris also might affect how about government record keeping as well because less information transmitted over government email and work device means less foia responses, less transparency in the long run for the federal government. boris. >> yeah, really important point, sean. thanks so much for the reporting, brianna. >> and joining us now to talk about the impact, the very real impact that all of this is having on government employees is nicholas dieter. he's a federal worker who received a termination letter as the trump administration carries out its widespread layoffs. nicholas, thanks for being with us. just to let our viewers know you were a natural resource specialist for the national resource conservation service. you accepted that buyout offer, and then just last week, you got a

termination notice when you initially accepted the buyout offer. what did you hear? >> um. >> so when i first accepted the buyout offer, um, and the first thing i want to say is i wasn't planning on accepting the buyout offer. i love my job. i think it has a valuable impact on my community. um, but i took it because three days before the initial deadline, i received an email that said because i was a probationary period employee, they couldn't guarantee me, um, my job. after the buyout window closed. so at that point, it was kind of like risk taking the buyout or, you know, just risk getting fired and getting nothing. um, and so when i sent in my buyout, the, the email that saying i was accepting the terms of the buyout offer on wednesday, february 5th, all i received and all any of my supervisors have received to this point, um, was an email later that day, unsigned from the office of personnel management, which is hr for the federal government that just said we will receive. we have received your email and we will contact you shortly. and it's been 12 days and i still

haven't heard anything except that, you know, like you said last thursday, i found they said i was fired and terminated, which was, you know, the whole point of taking the buyout was for that not to happen. >> okay. so do you get the buyout? do you get essentially the severance? >> i have no idea. no, but nobody knows. none of my supervisors know. um, you know, i've talked to some other reporters and there's been some reporting that supposedly the opm and the federal government stance at this point is that employees that received the termination letter that did accept the buyout, that it was an accident. um, but again, it's been four days and i haven't heard anything to the contrary. i actually, for the first time today, heard from another employee who's in a similar boat to me, and they haven't heard anything. um, and just i mean, to be honest, the whole process has been very chaotic and very disorganized. so it's kind of hard to trust that they're going to come through at this point. it's just until until i receive like confirmation in writing. otherwise i it's hard to say if i will.

>> yeah. i mean, that's sort of what we've been hearing from a lot of federal workers. uh, they just don't know where to turn for information. and they're really it's pretty limited. you said you were hearing from someone that maybe getting let go or fired after doing the buyout might have been a mistake. who told you that? or is that just a rumor? >> uh, there was some reporting, but i talked. i was a part of an article with the ap. i guess that was back on friday. um, and the reporter i was talking with to at the, at the ap said that the official stance of opm is that employees that were fired was it was done in accident. um, but that's again, i haven't received anything official from any of my direct supervisors or from the op. >> so, nicholas, tell us how you're feeling. i mean, i think a lot of people think of there's been this kind of caricature of federal workers painted as, like, all these people, these bureaucrats in washington, d.c. you're clearly not. there. you are. you're in kansas. we see the locator, um, like, how are you feeling about

this? and what does this mean for a lot of people who are in places like you? >> yeah, absolutely. you know, i think you're exactly right that there's this caricature of federal employees as either lazy or just trying to get a grip. and in my experience, working for the federal government, that's not what it's been. you know, i work in a rural kansas county working with farmers to try to improve the the health and sustainability of their land. um, i work with a veteran who was also a probationary period employee who, as a kid coming, um, in may, and he got laid off and he didn't take the buyout. and he i mean, there i feel so much for the employees that are probationary period employees that didn't take the buyout because i don't i don't know if they're going to get anything. i don't i mean, currently they we've gotten no guidance on how much longer they're supposed to get paid. we've gotten a little bit of guidance that maybe they're going to get, um, uh, health insurance for another month. but i mean, like i said, he's got he's got a kid coming on the way in may, so. >> and he's a veteran. so he's a

veteran. >> yeah. he's a veteran in the u.s. army. correct? yep. >> well, so i think a lot of people also don't realize that. is that a huge chunk? i think almost a third of the workforce are veterans. so it sounds like there are a lot of people, including veterans, who are facing circumstances that you're facing. >> absolutely. yeah. >> so where. >> do you go? federal workforce is. oh, yeah. um, sorry. do you want me to answer that? >> that's okay. yeah. where do you go from here? nicholas? >> uh, you know, i'm really fortunate. i'm really blessed that i have a lot of family and friends that are supportive of me. um, that i have, uh, you know, i already have a few other job opportunities lined up, but there's there's a lot of people. i'm in a better position than a lot of people. um, i mean, there, like i said, i got there's a lot of people in the federal government, um, you know, outside of dc, they work in rural areas where there's not a whole lot of other job opportunities. um, there's. you know, it's just it's just i

think there's just a lot of uncertainty and a lot of fear, and i just, i just want to i want to make clear that it's it's those are the people i want. i want people to, to to be thinking about and think about what it was. oh, i remember i was going to say there's a lot of people i work with that picked up their lives and moved to these rural communities, um, in the last year to take these jobs that aren't from kansas or, you know, wherever else. um, and they, they don't have any. i'm from kansas. i'm lucky that i have other connections, other resources, but i know people that moved from texas and indiana to these small rural communities in kansas that got laid off last week. and they don't they don't have any other connections in those communities. and so i just i just really want people to understand that, that most federal worker, i'm not i'm not going to pretend that there's no room for improvements in efficiency or that there's zero waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government. but most federal workers, in my experience, do their job because they find it valuable, meaningful work, and maybe even like in my case, i turned down opportunities in the private sector that would have made me more money. so i just i just

want to make that clear to people that most federal workers, at least in my experience, are are patriots, are proud americans are do their job out of duty and service to their community and their country. and and i just whatever wherever you stand politically, even even if you think that the government should be shrunk, like i hope we can all agree that this isn't the way it should be done and that people have been treated very poorly. um, throughout this whole process. >> well, nicholas, it is great to hear from you, a person who's actually in the thick of it and can tell us what's going on and how it's affecting you. nicholas dieter, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. >> thank you brianna. >> and still to come, this hour, american officials are getting set for pivotal talks with russia on ending the war in ukraine. what ukraine's president is saying about his country's participation or really lack thereof. >> welcome back. >> have i got news for you. new

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foster.com. >> tournament of champions set the. world on fire. there is no telling what's going to happen. there's no predicting the randomizer. you never know who's going to win. that's what makes this the tournament of champions. >> season premiere. >> tournament of champions sunday, march 2nd at eight. >> we have. >> breaking news to cnn. we've just learned that emergency teams are responding to a landing incident involving a delta flight at toronto pearson airport. >> yeah, i mean, we're calling it a landing incident, but this is really serious. we have cnn safety analyst david soucie with us. it appears to be. i mean, you tell us what you're seeing in these in these pictures, david. they're from afar. but we could see kind of wheels that are not it looks upside down. >> yeah. it looks to me like some kind of. landing gear issue on the. >> way down. so i. >> but then. >> um. >> it could have slid off the runway to. it's really too preliminary to tell. i don't

have very many pictures or videos of it at this point, but it certainly is serious. we know that there are accidents. we don't know if there's any fatalities yet, but we do know that there are injuries. so we're waiting to see right now as to as this unfolds. >> yeah, i guess a positive sign. the camera appears to be shifting elsewhere, but a positive sign. as we were looking at the scene. it did not appear. and there it is again. it did not. it doesn't appear that there are apparent flames, and it doesn't look like there's a ton of activity going on around the fire trucks. in other words, you don't see firefighters racing toward flames. so. so that appears to be a good sign. again, we're still learning exactly what happened here and what, if any, danger passengers or others may be facing. but david, i wonder you mentioned that it could be some sort of of landing gear in previous situations where you've seen scenes like this. and again, this is from far away. so we're sort of discerning what we're looking at when a plane is on a runway that appears to

be frosted over. what would it take for it to flip? >> well, aircraft have a thrust reversers. so you would think, like if you're driving in your car and you apply the brakes, that you start losing control or it slips and you have anti-skid on them and that sort of thing. airplanes also have anti-skid, but there's only two, two of the wheels. the main trucks are the ones that have the brakes on them. the nosewheel doesn't. so as you're as you're stopping, you're relying on those. but above that you also have thrust reversers. and nearly every commercial airplane has thrust reversers that even when you're on an icy runway like that, you pull the engines back and it literally pushes thrust forward out of the aircraft so that it's slowing the aircraft down as it goes. and you can control left and right with that as well by controlling the the airplane thrust reversers as to how much power goes to which engine. so in that in those cases when you're landing, then you can control the slip the way that

you go and maintain that runway and stay on the runway. in this case, it looks like that got off the runway in some way. now, the reason that i mentioned that about the landing gear is that these trucks seem to have been there already, waiting for the aircraft to land. that happens only when you've already declared an emergency and that you expect something to happen when you land. so the fact that they were there that quickly, it tells me that there may have been some kind of problem before the the landing itself. >> and david, we're joined also by mary schiavo, who is cnn transportation analyst. mary, tell us what you're seeing. we should also note, for folks who are unaware, this is canada's busiest airport, isn't it? >> right. >> it is toronto pearson. >> and i've worked some other accidents there. some other cases. and in in prior. and i'm not saying what happened here, but in prior accidents that i've worked on where the plane has gone upside down, just as david said, usually it meant they have left the runway. sometimes they

hit an embankment, and the embankment then causes it to be unstable. there was a very famous one where it went upside down in san francisco. oh boy, almost a decade ago. and it hit the seawall coming in and cartwheeled. same thing in sioux city, iowa. it it cartwheeled upon landing or not? i haven't even had time to check all the weather yet. if there was a tremendous cross wind gust, and that this is a big if. but. and you can tell this from the weather radar, if there was some weather at the very last minute with gusting combination with the gear problem, as david mentioned, that could flip a plane. >> i also wonder, mary, if you could we know that the ntsb has its hands full with a number of recent incidents here in the united states. what is it like to coordinate with another government? obviously, toronto pearson airport, as you noted, has had prior accidents. this was a flight that was coming from the united states. we

understand. what's it like to coordinate an investigation and figure out exactly what happened when it's a different country? >> well, yeah. well, with canada, we're very fortunate. a united states ntsb and and canada transport work together hand in hand many times at the accident. toronto. pearson. oh, boy. that's probably about 12 or 15 years ago in that case, literally, the plane burned completely. there was nothing left of it. but everyone survived. so they have great response teams there. they're you know, they're a major, major aviation nation on par with us. so they're used to doing these investigations. they've had many they've had to investigate, including foreign ones. remember, they've had a couple of flights that were bound for canada that were shot down. um, and so they're very experienced. the ntsb will have no difficulty, and the ntsb will not be lead. canada will be lead because that's the law. the accident happened in canada, and they'll take the lead on it. the ntsb won't have a problem.

>> all right. just to update our viewers on what's happening here. delta, a delta plane has had what is called a landing incident. that's what it's being referred to. uh, at toronto's, toronto's pearson airport. this is a tweet from the airport. toronto pearson is aware of an incident upon landing involving a delta airlines plane arriving from minneapolis. emergency teams are responding. all passengers and crew are accounted for. uh, this is a delta plane that is upside down on the runway. this is a serious incident that has happened. you're hearing officials there, and these are some new pictures that give us a clearer look. and you can see there is some fire damage that appears to have been contained there certainly some damage there on the right side by that engine. um, but when they say that everyone has been accounted for, we're obviously going to be stressing to see what kind of condition everyone is accounted for. is everyone alive? is everyone well? let's bring in our cnn aviation correspondent,

pete muntean. pete, this looks, uh, pretty, pretty horrific from this side of things. >> pretty stunning. >> images here. >> brianna from. >> toronto pearson international airport. >> it looks like this. >> crash involved. >> a delta flight operated by regional airline endeavor air. delta 4819. according to the flight tracking data from flightaware and flightradar24 uh left minneapolis around 1134 central time. a little bit late, uh, arrived in toronto. pearson. 12:13 p.m. eastern standard time. so a little more than an hour ago, uh, the weather at toronto pearson is a bit challenging. and right now, according to the notice to pilots, all of the runways at toronto, pearson, lester b pearson international airport are closed because of this incident. uh, let's just check the weather here really quick on foreflight from 25 minutes ago.

winds out of the west at 27 knots, gusting to 35 knots. you can see the blowing snow there. so a pretty big challenge for pilots landing looks like to the southwest. according to the flight tracking data, with a bit of a crosswind. uh, big question here, of course, will be the conditions, as the ntsb equivalent in canada, the canadian transportation safety board will look at this. obviously, the fuselage is upside down. that's the body of the airplane. uh, we're looking now at the left side of the aircraft. this is a crj 900. a canadair regional jet 900. in the configuration for delta airlines. seats about 70 to 76 people. and you can see the crash fire rescue crews there. clearly, they had to be dispatched to this crash. hats off to them. good job. it looks like they did a nice job of containing what may be a bit of a fire here. i'm seeing a bit of smoke. can't quite tell if that is the exhaust of from one

of the crash fire rescue trucks. you can see one another one coming in now. um. of course. very challenging conditions there with the wind and the snow. uh, still trying to get a little bit more information here from delta airlines about what may have caused this. but we do at least know from the airport that all people on board all souls, in the aviation parlance, have been accounted for. and that is especially good news after the tremendous, unprecedented, uh, accident after accident involving commercial and private jets here in the united states. of course, this is right over the border. um, and there will no doubt be american help to try and figure out what went wrong here. seeing as though this flight left the continental u.s. according to the flight tracking data, left minneapolis earlier this morning or afternoon. east coast time still appears to be some fire response on the scene there. i just counted at least three fire trucks off the frame to the left. um, on this live feed from

ctv. uh, also a foam truck there on the left that is so critical to fighting aircraft fires, which are so different than fighting a normal house or building fire. you have to put out the intense heat of burning jet fuel, and it does look like there is some singeing there. you can see on the top of the screen, obscured a bit by the truck there. that's the bottom of the fuselage. it looks like there was at least a little bit of a fire there, and then also a little bit of a fire there in the tail of the plane, the right side of the screen, which is the back left side of the fuselage and the tail mounted engines there on the crj 900. so of course, a lot still developing here by the moment. um, and we are getting more information all the time. the spot shadowed image there shows a bit further away. uh, what is the scene of this crash? um, that is the fuselage there. you're looking a bit down the nose. uh, it doesn't look like much. and so now the question will be, where

is the debris field? where are the wings and where is the tail? and this is something that investigators will look at very closely as they piece together exactly what went wrong here. uh, right now, way, way, way too soon to speculate on any sort of a cause. um, but we you can see the windsock there at full mast. that is a pretty strong and stiff wind there. uh, at toronto pearson international airport. as we get the images in now from social media. um, the live picture shows what looks to be a pretty good fire there. and the melting of the fiberglass cowling around the engine. that's the left engine, and you can see some remnants of maybe fire suppression foam or maybe snow. i can also even make out a little bit of the tail number, the end number for the registration of this aircraft. we're standing by to hear more from from delta airlines about the status of the passengers here. but we do know, at least from toronto pearson international airport, that all

are okay on this apparent incident on landing. earlier today, about an hour ago. >> yeah, an enormous relief, as you said, pete, the airport putting out the statement that all passengers and crew are accounted for. uh, notably, you can see there the landing gear of the plane, apparently, at least on the front end, did deploy as we were speaking a moment ago with david soucie and mary schiavo about the potential for that to have been a factor in what happened. we have with us cnn aviation analyst peter goelz. he's a former official with the ntsb. peter, just right off the bat, what do you make out from what you're seeing that you think is of significance? uh, does anything stand out to you? >> well, there's. >> two things that that. i'd like to point out. one is that this investigation. >> as mary. pointed out, is going to be. >> investigated by the ntsb. >> but the canadian. >> safety board, which is highly

regarded, will be in the lead. >> and they will. >> investigate this under a. long established treaty. >> but i think the key thing. >> to. >> look at, if it is true that all of the passengers have been accounted for and that there are no fatalities, this is a tribute to something called 16 seats. some 20 years ago, the safety board made a recommendation that all commercial air carriers have seats that can resist precisely this kind of accident, that they stay in place, that people are not ejected, that the seats are not ejected. and time and time again, these 16 seats have saved lives. and i think we'll see again, as the analysis unfolds on this accident that the 16 seats have saved lives once again. >> because what used to happen, peter, they would just come

loose from their fastening inside the fuselage. >> on a hard landing. the seats would come loose, people would be ejected, the seats would be ejected. uh, there were inevitably fatalities. uh, it was a it was a very tough situation. but the carriers over the past decade or more have replaced all of the seats with 16 g seats. so if you're buckled in and you have a hard landing, you are likely to make it through to evacuate the aircraft. >> and is that just a matter of is that the frame of the seat? is that the bolts that they're using? what is it that makes that in compliance? >> it's the way the seat is attached to the frame of the aircraft. so it's designed to withstand a very heavy impact. and, uh, this is, uh, a testament to government regulation and to government

investigations. >> david soucie, if you're still with us, i wonder, as you hear peter sort of walk us through how, uh, these regulations on, on seats may have played a role here. uh, there's obviously a lot that goes into the kind of response that we're seeing when this happens. and then a short while later, you get confirmation from the airport that all passengers and crew have been accounted for. talk to us about what procedures are in place at an airport when something like this happens, to try to minimize the harm. >> well, you can see right away you can see that foam that's all over the aircraft. they were out there fast. they got out there quick. you can see, as pete mentioned, that there were some signs of a fire there on the top of that engine. so in order to extinguish that fire that quickly, they had to be on site and ready and prepared immediately. so those procedures that are in place for an aircraft, that's, that's,

that's needing assistance, is there for them to get out there immediately. and they spray the foam, and that foam was fire retardant foam. it contains anything from catching fire. it prevents oxygen from getting to the fire. so even in extremely hot situations, that foam will extinguish the fire perfectly. so that's step one. step two is the evacuation of the people. and you can see there's not a lot of evidence of people. there's no nothing popped open. the doors are open. it looks like they evacuated everybody from what would be the the left side of the aircraft. because what we're looking at right now is the right side, because there's no doors or anything open on that side. so the procedure of which side is the safest to get out of. so the first thing it has to be determined by the crew is, is there a fire on the other side of that door before i open it up? so these are all procedures that are in place via regulations from the faa and recommendations from the ntsb over the years to make sure that they're going out the right door, that they've been evacuated. and you can see all those things came into play. if you don't mind, i would like to mention on what peter said, uh, often the faa and the ntsb are

at odds with each other because the ntsb is looking at these proximate causes, and then they make recommendations. often the faa says, yeah, that's a great recommendation, but we don't put it into play because the faa has to weigh a couple of other things as well, or because they just can't get it done quickly enough. so the ntsb is very frustrated with the faa because the faa is that regulatory body, in this case, the 16 seats is something that was approved thanks to the insistence of the ntsb and the faa approved it. and the fact that it was there did save lives. and it's testament again, to the regulators working together with the ntsb to make sure that there is a regulation that enforces that safety improvement. >> it's fascinating to see how that recommendation has an immediate impact in the scene that we're seeing. and if you're just joining us, emergency teams right now are responding to a delta plane flying from the united states, from minneapolis into toronto pearson airport, a delta flight that apparently flipped upside down. you were seeing the debris right now. toronto pearson airport put out a statement

saying that all passengers and crew have been accounted for. really a remarkable sign when you consider the situation. also, as we've been taking a look, a closer look now at the fuselage, there are marks on the plane that indicate, uh, flames. at one point, clearly there was a fire on the body of this aircraft. and really stunning. pete pete muntean, who is here with us on set to see a scene like this and consider all the things that could have gone wrong. and you hear that all passengers and crew are accounted for. it speaks to a level of preparedness. >> it packed airplane, presumably 70 to 76 people in the configuration that delta uses. these airplanes. uh, endeavor air is the airline that is operating this. um. >> i do want to jump in because we just got some new video in of the moments right after the crash. let's listen in. >> we're in toronto. we just landed our plane crash. it's

upside down. fire departments on site. tie down. everybody. most people appear to be okay. we're all getting off. some smoke going on. wow. >> pete. unbelievable. look, can we put that back? can we run that again while we talk over it? unbelievable. look. >> and incredible work by the crash fire rescue there at toronto pearson international airport. getting water and foam on this airplane that was very clearly on fire. what you're looking at now is the right side of the fuselage. the airplane is inverted, is upside down. you can see the nose landing gear there on the left. the fire crews did an incredible job of getting this put out quickly. and you can see the emergency exits, not only the door one on the right side of the airplane, but also the mid-cabin emergency exit open and folks coming out of it. this is the key. if you are watching this and you are a

regular traveler, always leave your stuff behind. that slows down the evacuation when lives are on the line. and this is exactly why flight attendants say with with such authority to leave things behind in the case of an emergency like this, a fire can spread so quickly. i know this firsthand from the crash of my mother that killed her. it can be extremely dangerous. it is one of the top risks. it's a ten on the scale of severity on a on a airplane crash, in some cases in 11. and so for a case to be to us, for us to be saying that this is an outcome with all souls accounted for on board this plane is really incredible. now the big question is how this airplane got in this position at toronto pearson international airport. and looking at the flight tracking data, there's nothing no real telltales in the final approach that this plane was having any sort of trouble, that the approach was what pilots would call unstable, meaning

they weren't on the glide path or they weren't on speed or on altitude. the approach itself looked pretty good. and when i teach people to fly, i say bad landings start with bad approaches. this was not that case. the approach looked okay. so how this airplane ended up in the inverted position, wings and tail sheared off is going to be a big question for investigators. without speculating, we can say with authority and fact here that the wind at toronto pearson is something else. today it's gusting to about 35 knots right now. this landing was to the southwest there at toronto pearson international airport. the wind pretty stiff out of the west. and in some of the images you can see the windsock there essentially straight out showing us just sort of the strength of the wind. still a lot of fire crews there on the scene, and you can see the foam truck there on the left of the crash, fire rescue crews that are based at the airport, which swooped in so quickly to try and put out that fire. of course, they're staying there to make sure there are no hotspots to make sure that this does not flare up. but at this point, all they're doing is essentially making sure that the wreckage remains in one

place and that nothing sort of lights off again. but you can even see fire there in the tail, too. uh, that's the that's the right side of the fuselage. that's the right engine. tail mounted engines on a crj 900. and you can see some singeing there as well. also from the wings where the fuel is stored. um, so really a pretty incredible job here by all. and you will hear, of course, as this story develops, uh, the work of the flight crew, not only the pilots, but also the cabin crew. they are aviation first responders, and they make it so that things like this are happy ending. and the passengers, of course, following the rules is very critical here to us being able to say, according to the airport that all people, all on board this flight, delta 4819, operated by endeavor are okay. >> mary, i wanted to go to you something pete pointed out some of the conditions at the airport. uh, very difficult that that windsock we saw a moment ago, almost completely lateral. and when we got the much closer

view of the wreckage of this plane, you could see that the runway itself appeared quite icy. you see it there. how difficult is it to land a plane like this in these conditions? >> well, you know, pete, pete picked up something very important. pete's right on. so that windsock is straight up. this is a cr. cr does have crosswind landing limits now. they should have been landing right down with the wind. when the wind is that stiff. but if the wind change at the last minute, this plane has a limit. i mean the and i'm doing off the top of my head. so it's not going to be exact, but i think the crosswind limits on this aircraft are probably 20 knots, maybe even less. i was on one of these planes just a couple days ago, and we had to get out of the takeoff line up to get out, because the crosswinds exceeded our crosswind limits. and so that could very much have something to do with it. it does look to me like it has left the

runway. and that, again, is also another, uh, you know, another clue here. if you have a tremendous crosswind and you do have problem with the landing gear, we see that it's gone. if it did leave the runway in a windy condition, any kind of inclined banking, um, i said that there were they hit a seawall in california about 20 years ago or 15 years ago, and that caused the plane to go inverted. any kind of tipping of that wing, any kind of hitting of an object or losing one side of the gear, you can go inverted if you've got, especially if you've got a wind. so pete picked up on that windsock. that's a good clue. i suspect that will have a lot to do with it. >> and david soucie when they say accounted for that everyone on board is accounted for. does that mean that everyone is definitely alive? >> uh, yeah. if they haven't reported any souls, any fatalities, then they're saying that we've accounted for them. we have them. they're off the aircraft. so that's a really good sign. uh, and that, again,

is testament to the fact that the engineering that goes behind these airplanes, you notice that both of the wings are off of the airplane right now. and that's by design. they have breakaway explosive bolts that hold those wings on so that if the aircraft does go sideways and it does hit the wing, if that wing was too stiff, it would tear the fuselage apart and dislodge the seats and damage the fuselage. but it's designed to allow that when it's a huge impact on the wing to strip those wings off, and then that aircraft can continue to move and and come to rest safely. so there's so many examples now that we know we don't have fatalities. we have this opportunity now to show exactly all of the things that have happened in the past that we've learned from, as peter brought up the 16 seats and then also these breakaway bolts on the wings. there are so many things in this particular accident that came together perfectly to make this a safe, safe situation. >> and we want to play some video again. this is again, you're looking at delta flight

4819 from minneapolis to toronto. it is there on the runway in toronto without its wings, without its tail upside down. and this is what was captured by one of the passengers upon exiting the plane shortly after this crash. >> we're in toronto. we just landed our plane crash. it's upside down. fire department's on site. tie down. everybody. most people appear to be okay. we're all getting off. >> just stunning video from the runway at toronto pearson, and we've just been handed an update. this is from the association of flight attendants, cwa. they confirmed that a crew were working this flight and they confirm reports are there are no fatalities. again pete, really a stunning

development given the circumstances there. i wanted to ask you to lay out what exactly a crosswind is. for those of us that aren't familiar with aviation, because obviously it sounds like a complicated landing when you have wind like that, when you have a runway that appears to be icy. in layman's terms, what is it like when you're trying to land a plane in those conditions? >> i don't fly large transport category airplanes like this. i can tell you more about my experience from a pilot of a small airplane, but a crosswind landing is one of the biggest challenges that pilots face regularly. airline pilots doesn't faze them so much because they're in crosswinds and have to land and take off, and that all the time. that essentially means instead of the wind coming at your face, which is the the most advantageous setting for wind in an airplane, it helps the wings lift faster and you get off the ground quicker or land shorter. crosswind causes the airplane to sort of slide laterally across the runway. so you want to be tracking straight down the runway as you're coming in to

land on approach. and then of course, as you touch down, uh, airline pilots do something usually called the crab and kick method, where they will essentially turn the nose of the airplane into the wind, cut the effect of the wind, track straight across the ground as they're approaching the runway. and then at the last second, kick in the rudder on the tail and and then track straight. they're trying not to side load and put a ton of stress on the landing gear. so a crosswind can be especially difficult. uh, airline pilots are especially used to it. they have to do this all the time. so it's not the biggest challenge that they face. but it's a factor. thankfully here, the weather was relatively good. aside from the wind, the conditions are mostly clear. there's a bit of blowing snow. this is in daylight, so the risk factors there aren't terribly high. uh, they were landing mostly into the wind. so this landing appears at least according to the flight tracking data, that they were landing on runway two three at the time of the crash. that's to the

southwest at toronto pearson international. uh, the wind. according to the automated data, was from 270. so essentially a 40 degree angle. that's about when you get really all of the effect of the wind coming from your side. so it's challenging for sure, although not a game ender. uh, so really questionable here about what happened, uh, even up and down the east coast today, there have been reports of wind shear by pilots, meaning moving currents of wind that's there and then not there causes a lot of turbulence. i spoke to a friend earlier today who was on a flight into national airport. they had to abort the landing because of the heavy wind there. it's gusting to about 50 knots here in washington, d.c.. so wind of course will be a factor. it's so soon to speculate. um, and the big question now will be what went into this. and so now investigators will be pulling things. and thankfully the wreckage is primarily intact, pulling things like the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder to see what went on here. but at least according to the the publicly available flight tracking data from sites

like flight radar and ads-b exchange looks like a pretty normal approach and pretty stable. these these pilots were relatively locked in, so something clearly went wrong in the last maybe a few dozen feet. um, and so now that's the question that we will need to answer. um, of course, more and more will come out here and no doubt, investigators at the canadian transport safety board will want to see things like closed, closed circuit tv cameras and security cameras on the airport. um, there are so many cameras in our lives now in 2025, they will no doubt be able to sort of piece this together relatively quickly. and of course, we're already seeing the images pop of the incredible response there on runway two three at toronto pearson of the crash fire rescue crews, which are based on the airport. they are in many cases required to be there for commercial service, to be at an airport with such rapidity. toronto one of t busiest airports in canada, and you can see the evacuation taking place here. this is harrowing stuff and you can see

passengers leaving the the overwing exit. uh, on that right side of, uh, delta 4819 and then also the, the r one exit the very front just behind the cabin or just behind the cockpit where you would usually board. so this is a pretty incredible story that we are able to tell on the heels of such tragedy over the potomac river, where 67 people died in the mid-air collision here, this is almost antithetical to that. this is a terribly happy ending. >> it is. and all runways closed right now at toronto's pearson airport, which is the busiest airport in canada. these are terrifying pictures that we are looking at. but with, as we said, a positive outcome. this is a crj 900 upside down wing shorn off, missing its tail. there's a fire, but emergency crews have managed to contain it. and everyone, according to the airport, is accounted for.

mary, i wonder what you were expecting. we did see a lot of people even bounding off of that plane. so a lot of folks there in very good condition as they were running off the plane. um, but i mean, are you going to be expecting that? what kind of bumps and bruises are you expecting here? and talk to us about? uh, we know the chairs obviously would have been crucial. you guys have talked about that and the seat belts as well. this is why it's important to stay buckled. >> right? and not just buckled. you know, before, especially in with this kind of wind, i would assume the pilot came on and said, give those belts an extra tug. you know, pilots always warn their passengers if it's going to be particularly turbulent. i was flying yesterday and it was very turbulent, flew in down south from up north. and so if the pilot gave a warning and said give it an extra tug because, you know, you can have your seat belt buckled, but if you flip upside down, as this one did,

uh, many people, especially smaller people, fall from the seat belts. and then you have a problem with head injuries. and that was a problem that we saw with the asiana crash in california. we saw that with, uh, uh, you know, several other crashes where they were buckled, but not really tightly. and so the cockpit voice recording will have this, and the pilot will be interviewed by, uh, the canada safety board as to what they told them. and so if they were buckled down really good. and this plane now that that pete mentioned that he checked in the winds was were up to 45. um, uh, 45 knot that exceeds the crosswind landing on this aircraft. so if this aircraft was going in and at the last second got a crosswind like that, that would have been very difficult for this aircraft. um, and then, uh, you know, the other thing we noticed in these live pictures that there aren't a lot of ambulances and that's, you know, that's a really good sign because toronto pearson,

their crash phones, you know, they're right in the tower. they're red just like in the u.s. and when air france, there was an air france plane that crashed at toronto pearson uh, bad weather went off, the end completely burned. and they had so much equipment there. it came from the it came from the highways. it came from the airport. it came every which way. and they saved every single person on that plane. and if you can imagine a jumbo jet burning entirely, there was nothing left and everyone's life was saved. and that was right at this airport. so they're very experienced, they're very used to it. and so the lack of a sea of ambulances is a really good sign. so perhaps the pilot did have them give extra tugs on those seat belts because head injuries. and there's also sidewall injuries. people who are seated next to the the wall of the aircraft often get side injuries and they get armrest injuries. so this looks like a good sign. >> and mary, as you were speaking we got an update. this is from canadian media. up to eight people were injured during

this landing incident in which this flight was overturned. the extent of their injuries currently unknown. it appears that everyone, all the passengers and crew are alive, but we're learning that up to eight have been injured. and again, the extent of their injuries is unknown. all 80 people we understand on board the flight were evacuated. we want to go to pete muntean who is actually at the magic wall right now. you have something to show us, pete. >> i just want to break down some of these images here for you because we're getting these in moment by moment. this is apparently an image right after the crash. you can see the fuselage here. this is the tail of the airplane. this is the nose of the airplane. this is the nose landing gear. you can see some of the fire trucks here. obviously a lot of people streaming out here. this seem to be in the moments right after the crash, folks were still out on the runway. i'm going to point out a couple of things here to you that are telltales to pilots you may not know about. we've been talking a lot about the wind. of course, it's way too soon to say the cause of this crash. although we know the

conditions at toronto. pearson. you can see the blowing snow. and the winds were pretty high, gusting to about 30 to 40 knots at the last hour. this is the windsock here. you see this at airports all the time in canada. they're alternating orange and white like this. in the u.s. there are flat emergency orange and the windsock is pretty much straight out. it shows that the wind is moving at a pretty good pace. usually when the sock is straight out, it's about 15 knots of wind. uh, this obviously is more so we know from the publicly available weather data at toronto pearson that the wind was pretty challenging. the runway that they were trying to land on here was runway two three. so that's mostly into the wind. although according to the publicly available weather reports there at toronto pearson, the wind was at about a 40 degree crosswind angle or crosswind component to the runway, which makes things a little bit more difficult. although not out of the realm of capability of two professional pilots in the cockpit of a u.s.

airliner, delta 4819, operated by endeavor air, one of their regional partners. that you buy a ticket on delta, they will fly some of the smaller, shorter routes. this flight was coming from minneapolis. i'm going to show you some of the video now, and i'll try and pause it here at some pretty critical points. you can see folks streaming out here. i'm just going to pause it really quick. um, this is the i'm getting used to this. bear with me. um, so this is the mid cabin exit. this is where the wing was. it would have been out like this. um, this is one of the overwing exits. you can see it opened. i think it opens to the inside in an rj. i'm not totally sure. someone on twitter will. i'm sure. correct me. um, and you can see the folks coming out here from the mid-cabin exit over the wing. uh, this is now on the right side of the airplane. um, and the fire crews are still here spraying foam onto the airplane. folks getting out quickly and safely, being helped by some of the firefighters here, presumably the fire rescue crews there at

toronto pearson international airport. a good job to them. i'm going to restart it really quick here so we can talk about some of what was going on in the front. i have to walk over to the other side. excuse me, i know you can't see it very well. you can see some of the foam coming down here. let's see if we can pause it here. okay. so this is the ah, one door in a commercial flight. this is the door that you might board on through a jetway. you can see it right here, folks streaming out. um, you can see the landing gear is deployed. so the gear was down. a fair amount of clues here. um, but this is not an easy thing to do to evacuate a commercial flight with such rapidity in a situation where this is not upright, this is upside down. and so imagine yourself in sort of the terror and the anxiety that one would feel if the plane was immediately upside down. you're hanging in your seatbelt. that's where a lot of injuries can occur. when people take off their seatbelt too quickly, gravity takes over. now you're on the roof of the airplane, which is now the bottom. so getting out of this

is very critical. and aviation's first responders, flight attendants, really assist you in making sure that this happens. okay. a pretty incredible thing that we're able to say there were some injuries, although all crew and passengers have been accounted for, according to toronto pearson international airport. >> yeah. pretty amazing. eight injuries. we don't know the severity of them at this point. out of 80 passengers, the faa saying 80 people on board evacuated. pete, thank you so much. and let's bring in our paula newton. paula, you just flew in to new york from toronto's pearson airport. can you tell us a little bit about what the conditions were like earlier? >> yeah, i mean. >> i don't have pete's expertise, but i can tell you i have been through this airport hundreds of times. that is more snow than i have ever seen there. and i was there for well over two hours waiting for my flight. the snow was actually blowing and you could see the snow removal crews all over the airport just trying to keep up with the blowing snow. and for perspective, in the last week they just finished a major storm

in toronto. but for perspective, they had probably 15 or 16in of snow in the last week. you could really tell at the airport. and that's what struck me as well as the winds. the wind was whipping up the snow incredibly in all directions. when we went to try and take off, we were delayed 30 to 45 minutes. i would say just waiting for runways to open. given the winds and the fact that they want to be safe. i mean, i guess that was the delay. that's at least what our captain told us. it was blue skies, though. there weren't weren't flurries at the time. and you can see from some of the video here. but extraordinary. i will say i have detailed operations this airport behind the scenes for years now. they train for this hours and hours throughout the year for this such incident. and thankfully, it does look like they were ready to try and help some of the people get off that plane. but i can tell you those conditions are not predictable. for toronto, they were under a lot of pressure, obviously, to

try and get some of these planes moving as they had extensive cancellations and delays in the last 48 hours. but yeah, the amount of snow. i cannot tell you how it was blowing around and the fact that it was even on the runway itself and even where we were taxiing, large amounts of snow continued to blow throughout the entire afternoon, despite the blue skies that you see there. it was just incredible for the snow crews really to try and keep up with this. >> yeah, really some incredible images. we'll see how weather may have played a factor in this incident. paula, thank you for that perspective. if you were just joining us, this is a really, uh, wow, a harrowing scene. a delta plane flight 4819 coming from minneapolis, flipping as it lands at toronto's pearson airport. all 80 passengers on board evacuated, all of them alive. we're learning up to eight of

them were injured. the extent of their injuries at this point unknown. as you look at video captured from the ground moments after the incident took place, you see in the distance what appears to be the wing of this aircraft. clearly, firefighters scrambling to put out flames and emergency crews wrangling passengers, getting them safely out of the plane. a lot to investigate, though, as far as what may have gone wrong here. >> that's right. they certainly were dealing with some wind and weather conditions. we can see that a lot of snow, a lot of blowing snow winds, as pete had reported, at 27 knots, gusting up to 45. that is not nothing when you're talking about a crosswind. but again, 80 people on that plane, crew and passengers, they got out alive. up to eight of them injured were learning from the faa. we'll continue to follow this here on cnn. stay with us. >> this