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purple.com. >> do not visit a purple store. >> welcome back. >> have i got news for you? news saturday on cnn. >> tonight donald trump puts pettiness and putin before all else with the truth. social smear. the american president turns his back on the west. turns volodymyr zelenskyy into a villain and turns ukraine's existence into a question mark. plus a federal fiefdom. donald trump tramples on more government safeguards meant to protect you, while missing the irony in declaring long live the king and doge dividends. >> 20% of the doge savings to american citizens. >> the president says maybe to putting his name on more checks to american families. live at the table. mitch landrieu, abel maldonado, ana navarro and brian

lanza. americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do. good evening. i'm abby phillip in new york. let's get right to what america is talking about. the ground shifting underneath the worlds feet. tonight, 230 words at a score of lies from the leader of the free world may ultimately end with ukraine not free, but living under moscow's hammer and sickle. donald trump today sang the same song as russian state tv, telling the story that the kremlin has been telling for years that ukraine started the war, that volodymyr zelenskyy is a dictator, that ukraine's government is filled with thieves, and that the u.s. should stay an ocean away from the battlefield. it's a sudden and sharp breakup of an alliance that happened in generations, and the rant is very much official u.s. policy now. the

vice president not so politely warned kyiv not to say anything if they don't have anything nice to say about trump. and as putin's army fires guns on ukrainian soil, consider this trump pointing a diplomatic gun at zelenskyy. >> a dictator without elections. zelenskyy, better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. got to move. got to move fast because that war is going in the wrong direction. in the meantime, we're successfully negotiating an end to the war with russia. something all admit that only trump is going to be able to do in the trump administration. we're going to be able to do it. i think putin even admitted that. >> joining us in our fifth seat at the table is bobby go. she's a senior editor at bloomberg. bobby, this does not seem to bode well for ukraine and what zelenskyy might want. and part of it is what trump is saying there, which is the clock is ticking and and he's not suggesting anything about the u.s. role in preventing russia

from just taking over ukraine. >> this has been a long time coming. it can't be a great surprise to the ukrainians. they had been hoping against hope that it would come to this point, but anybody who's been following trump closely for more than a year, in fact, for several years, would have seen this coming. um, it is a wake up call moment for europe. uh, because this is their moment of truth just as much as it is ukraine's. the europeans have been depending on the u.s. to to lead the effort to protect ukraine. and now the united states, through its president, is saying that that's not a role that we want to play anymore. um, we can we can sort of go down the rabbit hole of the specifics of what trump is saying, that that's. zelenskyy only has 4% support. actually, that's not true. he has 57%, and his support has gone up since last year. if there were an election today, he would very likely win. hard to hold an election in a country when you're in the middle of the war. but that is very often the case with the president that that kind of stuff is mostly the

distraction, the real meat of this and the substance of what we've been hearing for a while now, is that trump wants the united states to have no more role in protecting ukraine, and that is the thing that will most concern the ukrainians and zelenskyy. i think zelenskyy will. he's a he's a he's a practiced politician. he's very good at messaging. he has a fairly decent sense of of trump and and trump's personality. i think he will brush off the the actual name calling. but what he can't brush off is the fact that the united states is no longer backing him. >> well, the name calling, it would be one thing if it were just name calling, but it's also in service of a narrative that russia has been pushing. he called him a dictator, which is not true. it's just false. >> listen, i think it's pretty clear president trump wants elections and he sees elections in ukraine. >> but you understand why there aren't elections in ukraine. >> yeah. listen, i understand why ukraine is saying there aren't elections, but let's let's have some historical data to the point. you had elections

in afghanistan in the middle of a civil war. you had elections in iraq. you currently have elections in libya. right now. you have the libyan government with russia influencing. >> their. >> elections. >> just a point of fact. >> let's point of. >> fact, elections, constitution. >> constitutions can be changed. >> okay, okay. so you want okay, let me just lay out the facts. ukraine has a constitution. its constitution establishes martial law. ukraine is under martial law because russia is bombing them. that that constitution allows them to postpone elections until after the fighting has ended. that's been reaffirmed by the parliament of ukraine multiple times. so you're saying zelenskyy changed the constitution to create elections in a country that is being bombed every day? >> what i'm saying is president trump wants elections, and he's going to put the burden on ukraine to make sure elections happen. ukraine has the ability. parliament has the ability. nobody's arguing this. they have the ability to change their constitution, whether they choose to do it or not. that's their decision. but president trump is saying the threshold for me to get further engaged for me to to sort of bring the peace that i want to stop the

fighting to take place. he feels elections need to take place. why do what? >> why is he so insistent on elections in ukraine but not insistent on free elections in russia, for example? >> i mean, listen, his point of view with elections of ukraine and what he has said before is, is very hard to negotiate with somebody across the table who doesn't want any type of peace. you've had zelenskyy. >> he wants zelenskyy out. >> i think it's pretty clear at this point. >> right. the point is that. >> i think zelenskyy has expired at this point. >> he's got, as bobby said, 54% approval. >> hold on. i want to talk about. >> that approval. he wants zelenskyy out. i think what he wants is the war to end. he wants a ceasefire. he wants an agreement. he wants the killing of all these folks to just stop. and i think i think president zelenskyy should know that if you say something derogative about president trump, he's going to come back and hit you. he's going to do it because he fights back every single time. abby. so that's what happened today. he was upset. he went back at zelenskyy. he made it very clear i want this war to end. >> he's the only one of the things that i find incredibly

ironic. um, and frankly, painful to see. it's painful to see so many republicans who i remember wearing yellow and blue lapel pins, who i remember standing up and applauding for zelenskyy when he spoke at the joint session of congress, who i remember saying they stood with ukraine. now try to bend themselves into pretzel shapes, to try to find some sort of excuse for why this is happening. it's ironic that trump said those things and called zelenskyy a dictator, which he is not. in miami, where there are so many exiles from actual dictatorships like cuba, like nicaragua, like venezuela, maduro, with whom trump just negotiated. okay, to get the to send back immigrants and to do all sorts of things, legitimize maduro who had who actually lost an election. the u.s. has been supporting the u.s. under biden, has been supporting the opposition. the duly elected opposition under trump. okay,

well, what did he just do two weeks ago? he sent his emissary there, rick grenell, to negotiate with whom they call president maduro, legitimizing a man who lost the elections in venezuela who has been terrorizing the opposition. so this is not about elections. this is about donald trump giving putin what he wants, giving putin the win. >> also, by the way. i mean, the ukrainians are not there's not a big groundswell of ukrainians demanding elections. we've seen in ukraine fairly recent past that when they want a president gone, they're very good at getting rid of their leaders. they're very good at protesting and making their voices heard. >> but they can't. >> they're not. >> let's be clear ukrainians can't protest today. why not? martial law prevents the protests from taking place. they martial law prevents. >> they were perfectly happy to protest when they were. when? let's be clear. >> what martial. >> law being down. >> but let's be clear what martial law dictates. right now, we're covering ourselves with martial law, saying we can't do any of these things because of

martial law. martial law in ukraine says you can't protest. martial law says you can't criticize the government. martial law means no free speech exists. martial law means the media doesn't exist. >> misrepresenting what? let's be clear. >> what martial law means. >> if you simply follow the laws, you're not really protesting. and ukrainians have braved far greater threats than martial law to get rid of their previous president. >> brian invited us to think about history. we should actually think about history 70 years ago. 80 years ago, we actually had world war two. i stood on the beaches of normandy and looked at those shores and remembered all those young men from the greatest generation trying to protect freedom. and freedom is under assault across the country. i'm just curious. i mean, anybody can end a war by surrender and appeasement. the question should be, why is trump surrendering american values to vladimir putin, who not by not by my assertion, is an enemy? why don't you listen to senator john kennedy, one of our friends from louisiana, one of the most conservative republican senators. listen to mitch mcconnell. listen to the great senator from mississippi. you

know, all of them are warning us that this is an encroachment, that if we allow this to pass, nato is then going to be threatened, and then we're going to be faced with the same thing. but let me tell you something. it's really easy to tear something down. it's hard to build it back up. and once you lose democracy, once you lose the underpinnings of that when you try to get it back. so why is president trump trying to appease and surrender to vladimir putin, who we know because we can see and we can hear and we can think he started this war. he's the one that took land. he the one by force and by power has said, and i'm not going to stop until somebody stops me and he wants to give ukraine to him. somebody should ask the question, why is that in our best interest? >> good question. i mean, brian, i see you nodding as he was talking about the fact that vladimir putin started this war. trump did not say that. he said quite the opposite. he blamed ukraine for starting the war. he's using vladimir putin's language, saying that, you know, zelenskyy is a dictator. why is he capitulating so much to putin when he's trying to convince the world that this is a grand negotiation? he seems like he's giving away the store.

>> no. listen, i think it's important to step back and see what president trump sees going on in the world. i think he's made it his number one priority is to challenge china, right. and you can't challenge china without having some type of resolution in europe. what does that resolution mean? let's look what kissinger talked about, you know, 50 years ago with the opening of china, 40 years ago, ten years ago, the only way to ever challenge china is you need to have russia on your side. >> you don't think he's sending a signal to china that you can go eat taiwan tomorrow? i'm not going to be there. we're not, we're not. i'm going to go to gaza thousand troops. but, you know, why don't you go ahead and eat? you can have, you know, russia took crimea and i surrendered. i and i tried to appease them. go ahead, china, take taiwan because we're not going over there. >> no one's taking anything when he's been in office. i can tell you that as long as president trump's. >> been. >> in office, no one's. >> taking you believe that story that donald trump, when he was president, they didn't have any conflicts. they actually had 60 conflicts going on around the world when he was president. and lots of americans. maybe got hurt. let me tell you. >> let me tell you, it doesn't have to take anything. but it sure seems that trump is offering at least part of

ukraine. >> well, for a man who who prides himself as negotiations, this is very surprising. if you if you start your negotiating position by, by sort of taking one side of the table. um, this does not seem like a particularly good way to negotiate, by the way, that's not how he negotiated when he was a real estate tycoon. that's not the way he used to conduct negotiations and playing hardball with your friends and allies while playing softball, for want of a better expression with your your enemies, people who are behaving like your enemies. i don't know any rule book on negotiations, including the one he wrote that recommends that as a. >> course of action, legitimate negotiation. when ukraine is not at the table. >> it's also that all the europeans. >> but he said it he they are going to be invited on it just he was going to start on this. he was going to move over this, then get all three people. >> whether you admit it or not, this long post that he made today are the talking points of the kremlin. and look, what i will say to you is, though

donald trump has been signaling all through the campaign that he was going to do this, and i think there were republicans who support ukraine and who see the encroachment and the danger that russia represents, who thought maybe he won't do it. he's just this is just bluster, like with so many things. what i want to know is where are those republicans today? where is lindsey graham, marco rubio, marco rubio, the secretary of state, who's sitting there, used to be very much a supporter of ukraine and an opponent of vladimir putin. >> on the question of who started the war. trump's own defense department, the head of the defense department when he was working for fox news, he was willing to acknowledge that it was russia. and to your point, lindsey graham spoke with zelenskyy and he offered support for him. so there is some pushback, but not nearly as much as, you know, you would expect, given what people have been saying on capitol hill. bobby ghosh, thank you very much for joining us. everyone else, stick around. coming up next, donald trump refers to himself as a king, and he's moving quickly to expand his power. another

special guest is going to join us at our table. plus, breaking news the president's fight against birthright citizenship is now going to the supreme court after an appeals court just rejected his argument. stand by. >> welcome back. >> have i got news for you? news saturday on cnn. >> got one more. >> antoine with usps ground advantage. just like you're with us every step of the way. >> cool. right on time. >> stay in the know from your dock to their door. >> light. it guides our every waking moment. what we do and

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nine tablets for just $7 is try friday plans.com. >> march madness. it gives you all the feels. got the feeling they are feeling it. ready to dance. you don't know. wow. can you believe this? did you make me ice in the veins? a prayer at the buzzer. let's go. they're going crazy. the. sometimes i'm down under heartbreak. the emotions are on full display. this is what march feels like. i got the feeling, baby. >> tonight the king and all of us. donald trump is happy to troll by decreeing long live the king. on truth social. but that actually belies what he is governing by, which is by decree. the latest example came just last night when he signed an executive order that erases an important line that the white house and agencies in congress

had intentionally made independent. they did that so that some agencies, like, for example, the sec and the ftc, could act in the best interest of americans, even when it doesn't necessarily align with what the president wants politically. now, this is all part of a serious attempt to surreptitiously change the very core of how government operates and take the most maximalist view of executive power. so if you want to simplify it, just listen to this. this is the white house staff secretary, will schaaf, telling you what this is all about. >> only the president or the attorney general can speak for the united states when stating an opinion as to what the law is. >> robert ray is joining us at the table. he was counsel to president trump during the first impeachment trial. robert, is that correct? >> in, you know, in large measure, it it is i mean, traditionally, both parties, when you need an authoritative

voice on what the law is within the executive branch, you go to the department of justice and specifically you go to the office of legal counsel. they represent, along with the solicitor general who represents the justice department in court. that is the executive branch's view about what the law is. >> so then why do they bother going to court at all then, if they are the final arbiter? >> well, there are things that still have to be litigated. i mean, one of the issues that we're going to be dealing with, i imagine, rather quickly, is how independent these independent agencies really are. now, since 1935, you know, there is a view that the ftc and the other ones that you rattled off have a certain measure of independence that the president can't touch. there's a reasonable legal disagreement about whether or not the supreme court case that established that in 1935, humphrey's executor is still good law, and the supreme court has cast significant doubt about that as recently as 2020, when it took on the. consumer

financial. bureau. >> protection bureau. >> or protection bureau. and and it is now clear the acting solicitor general has said that the united states government, the justice department, will no longer defend the constitutionality of. humphrey's executor. >> so to to mitch here. it's happening. >> i understand that narrow legal response to the question of, does the president get to say what the law is in the executive branch of government? but we're in the united states of america. and since we're talking about history, we had a revolution. the reason we had a revolution was because we did not want a king. and so if anybody in america is confused, we don't do kings here. that's not that's not what we do. the president now is not only testing the expansion of presidential authority, which many presidents. he's basically saying, i am unbound. and his vice president the other day said, we don't really even have to listen to the courts. there's this thing called separation of powers. there's this thing called judicial review, and there is this thing called checks and balances that that for democrats and republicans alike, if we want to keep this democracy, we have to make sure that we stay in that.

the president has said, i'm running. i want to maintain power. i'm going to go after my enemies, and i want to help my friends. that's basically everything donald trump is doing. >> right was an snl skit a few weeks ago with lin-manuel miranda reviving his hamilton character, where he was basically rapping about exactly what you were just saying, that we didn't have a king. and then the donald trump character came in as a king. i think that's where he got the idea. frankly, i think he's much more of a court jester, and elon musk is the king. but, you know, he's acting as an authoritarian. there's also serves to propel us and get us distracted so that we're not talking about the bird flu experts that were mistakenly fired at usda, so that we're not talking about the nuclear scientists that were mistakenly fired, you know, earlier this week, so that we're not talking about the park ranger who doesn't know how he's going to feed his family that got fired, all these arbitrary things that are being done where he is acting like an

authoritarian. >> that the courts, just to be clear, do not agree with this idea that they get to be the final arbiter. just tonight, the appeals court, the ninth circuit, said they're going to keep the block on trump's challenge to birthright citizenship. it's going to remain on hold, and it's going to go to a hearing. >> big surprise that the ninth circuit ruled against the president. >> the ninth circuit just okay, is made up just a. >> just a shocking is the judge. >> in texas. >> so it's going to the supreme court. hello. >> hang on robert. the ninth circuit is made up of a trump appointee, a jimmy carter appointee, and a george w. bush appointee. so just so people understand. >> it's. >> something in the. >> water. >> though. just it is yet another example the courts are stepping in. >> well, to a certain. listen, i was i was a chief executive. i was a mayor of new orleans for, for eight years. and i remember saying, you know, i'm the head of this branch of government. i want to do x. and a lot of times the city attorney came in and said, mr. mayor, you know, i represent the city. i'm not your personal lawyer. this is what the law says. this is what the supreme court says. and as a

lawyer, as an officer of the court, you know, there's certain arguments that you can make are within bounds. but if you go and misstate the law to an appellate court, to to a supreme court, you have an obligation to say that's really just outside of the bounds of what we are. >> and isn't that just common sense, brian? shouldn't it shouldn't it be the case that the law says what it says and that, you know, faithful public servants should go to their bosses and say, mr. president, i know you want to do this, but here's what the law says. and that happened in the first trump administration. why are they suggesting that in order that to do that would be some form of insubordination? because because the because. >> the final rule in this is not the law. actually, it's the constitution. the constitution plays a guiding light in this. and, you know, the congress makes up laws and the supreme court decides, you know, whether those laws are within bounds of the constitution. >> you got a lot of lower court judges saying, well, it's absolutely clear that the 14th amendment, uh, authorizes birthright citizenship. i'm not so sure about that. and the supreme court is going to be the final word. and and even if you

disagree. >> even if you disagree with me about that, i actually agree with you. we got to travel. we have to. travel down this road first. >> but to go to your question is what happened in trump? one, there was a lot of cabinet secretaries, starting with jeff sessions, who ended up getting fired immediately by trump when they told him no. and so this time he has managed to surround himself with people who will not tell him no. >> just to get us back to where we started. okay. what you said, i think is absolutely correct. this is going to go through the court system. but what trump and his staff secretary and apparently emil bove he said this to one of the prosecutors who refused to drop the case against eric adams here in new york city. your oath to uphold the constitution does not permit you to substitute your policy judgment for that of the president or senior leadership of the justice department. i mean, either the law is the law, or it's just subject to whatever the president thinks at any given day. >> a.b., president trump got elected. he got a mandate. he

won all swing states. he feels that all these agencies should follow the will of where his law, what he wants the state. >> to go play in all. >> he's testing it. he's going to test it every. >> single day. fundamentally going to be the question of. >> if you edward snowden and if you disagree. >> fundamentally going to be the question. >> if you disagree on the policy issue. >> whether or. >> not you think your oath requires. >> it. >> robert, you resign. >> there's a. there's question here about. >> which is what happened. >> there is a role for the law when a president politically, for political reasons, decides he wants to do something. >> can i ask robert, does it bother you at all as an officer of the court, which i am as well, that the prosecutors in the southern district of new york, who were republicans and conservatives and highly regarded lawyers and some former supreme court justices. >> and in dc. >> their consciences were so bothered by this that they said, as lawyers, we don't think that we can do that, that that should give lawyers pause for a minute. it's not that the president doesn't have the. >> currently, there are 900 former federal prosecutors who agree with them. and my answer

to that is great. you don't agree with it. you think it violates your oath. go ahead. resign. >> but it doesn't. no, actually i understand. >> it doesn't bother me. >> no. >> if you were in that position, would you have dropped the charges at trump's request? it seems like what they got was cooperation from eric adams on unrelated issues as it relates to immigration. would you have done that? would you have gone before the court? >> i don't know who was making the decision with regard to that. but, you know, the president says it wasn't his decision. i don't know whose decision it was. >> i'm just asking, was beauvais's decision. >> if you had been ordered by your bosses at the justice department to drop the charges, and the circumstances were what they are, which is that the trump administration says, well, we had a deal with this guy. the charges are going away, and now he's going to cooperate with us. you would go before a judge and say. >> i don't know about the deal part, because. >> you would stand in front of a judge and say, your honor. >> look. >> this is the truth. >> the bottom line is, every prosecutor knows, despite what

they say, it takes two signatures to make a prosecution happen. one is from the foreperson of the grand jury, and the other is the prosecutor. if the prosecution, the justice department decides that it doesn't want to proceed with. >> the case, that's. >> that's not a yes. >> the answer. >> is you don't proceed. you don't proceed with the case. >> very telling. >> and the public has no right to a prosecution. >> legitimate exercise. right. if you thought this was a constitutional exercise and not a political one, why wouldn't you just say yes if you were asked to do it by your superiors and it was within the law? >> i don't. >> find that. i don't find anything that i. that i'm aware of here. and i don't know all the facts, but i don't find anything that i'm aware of here that would constitute a violation of my oath to carry out an order from the justice department to withdraw this prosecution without prejudice. >> so you would do it. >> so the answer is, if it's a direction from the justice department, i'd either do it or i would resign. >> okay, well, a lot of. >> people. >> there are people who are.

>> aware of the quid pro quo. well, you're aware of the meeting. >> where you. >> said. >> i'll. >> drop it if you do what i want. as it relates to a public policy. >> people throw around quid pro quo all the time. at the first sight of an appearance of, you know, of impropriety. they didn't they're not they're not completely axing the prosecution. they're withdrawing it without prejudice. again, the public does not have a right to a prosecution. you can dream on that. you think that you do. but if the justice department decides. >> that it. >> doesn't want to prosecute it for any reason. >> that's that's the end of it. >> it's all fun and games until you have to go in front of a judge and say it. and that's why emil bove was the one who ended up having to. >> and i give him credit for doing that. robert ray, if i were the decision. >> maker, i'd be doing the same thing. >> i'd be before. >> that judge. >> he would have no choice. everyone else, thank you. hang on for us. coming up next, a tragedy that says so much about what is happening in the country today. an 11 year old girl reportedly died by suicide after her classmates taunted that her family would be deported and she'd be left alone. another special guest is going to join us at the table to discuss this

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800) 217-1487 now or visit us at gofundme.com. >> remember this name. jocelynn rojo carranza. she was only 11 years old. she loved three brothers and sisters. she played french horn. she danced, she sang. she did cartwheels. or at least she tried to do as best as she could at 11 years old, she made tiktok videos. she counted down the days until movie night. on fridays, she got her nails done with her grandma. she was in the sixth grade and it's there at school where carranza was bullied, and it's because

of what happened there that we are talking in the past tense tonight about her. the bullies allegedly targeted carranza over her family's immigration status, turning the threat of ice agents knocking on her door into a menacing taunt. she took her own life, and her mother, maribel, found her in their texas home again. jocelyn was only 11 years old. joining us at the table is maria santana. she is an anchor and correspondent for cnn and espanol. um, maria, i want to talk to you about this case in just a second. but, anna, i, i see you there, and. >> i haven't been able to. it's a painful thing about this little girl the whole day. and look, when i, when i did the cnn documentary on the latino vote, i remember sitting down with a young man named emmanuel who told me exactly this story, who told me that when trump became president in 2016, he was in high school and he got called a dirty and he told me this

through tears, and he had not been able to tell his mother she was hearing it for the first time. as he was telling me. and this is happening all over america because of what has been unleashed, because of the portrayal of latinos in particular, and immigrants as criminals and as bad people, the tps holders, the venezuelans, as if they're all part of the aragua. they don't even know how to say aragua. so now they call it tda. there are kids being bullied. there are kids being targeted, and there are kids who are terrified that their parents, u.s. citizen kids terrified today that their parents are going to be taken away, that they're going to go home and the home is going to be empty. and so that is what has been unleashed on america. >> and we don't know all the details here about what happened. we don't even know her parents immigration status. but that's almost it's almost like beside the point. i mean. >> and i mean, at this point, will her mom go on tv and say, yes, i am undocumented, knowing

what's happening to people when they go on tv and then they get picked up by ice? um, but yeah, this is still under investigation. it's being investigated by the school police. uh, and what the mom told cnn is that the girl committed suicide after she was being relentlessly bullied and taunted at school about the family's immigration status, kids saying to her, um, we're going to call i.c.e. they're going to come to your house, are going to pick up your parents, you're going to stay alone. um, and the worst part about it is that she says that she didn't even know that this was happening. the girl was getting counseling at school when she was reporting the bullying. the school apparently was aware of it, but she said that she only learned about it from investigators. so she's saying, you know, maybe i could have done something. i didn't notice any signs in my daughter that she was going through this situation. but if the school had said to me, you know, she's being bullied about this, maybe she could have done something. and that's what's even more heartbreaking, um, about this story. there was a funeral for her today where even her

schoolmates showed up and she was just remembered as a happy, joyous girl. >> this is every parent's nightmare, just on a human level. but we're just at a moment where we have to talk about this because there are 4.4 million american children, u.s. citizen children who are born with an undocumented parent and what happens to them? >> it's sad, to be honest. uh, abby, it's it's horrible to have an 11 year old girl suicide herself over bullying. bullying is real. and obviously, uh, you know, they didn't catch it in time or she didn't report it on time or i don't know what it was, but the fact of the matter here is we have a system that's broken and people are making fun of someone's parents and caused her to kill herself. that is horrible. >> but nobody wants. >> something happening. i just want to show this because i think. and i'll let you jump in. um, the other part of this is that obviously deportations

happen every day in this country under democratic and republican administrations. people who break the law who are criminals should be sent back or deported or or jailed or whatever it is. but there's something happening also with this administration making light of the whole situation. this was a valentine's day post from the white house official account. roses are red, violets are blue. come here illegally and we'll deport you. and then another post on social media saying asmr. this is sort of like social media slang for kind of like a sensory experience of illegal alien deportation flight. that's what the caption was. and the operative image here is the chains. you see them there. so look again, it's not a question of should criminals be deported, but the idea of kind of celebrating this as something that is almost like a with a thrill down your spine, i think.

>> it i mean. >> whether you love cruelty. >> these, these little, this little girl's parents were not criminals. >> no. uh, yeah. that and that. and there's a level of dehumanization and cruelty built into all of this that i think trickles down to average americans, where they're not feeling empathy for 11 year old girls when they're relentlessly bullying them. and it's almost become a thing where, like, threatening to call ice on people is like a game. to just further victimize these communities that are already living in paralyzing fear and anxiety. and we've seen cases like this happening just in the last few days of, you know, a pizza shop manager being fired for threatening to call ice on his own customers, a teacher who made posts about, you know, encouraging people to report his undocumented students. and that's having an effect when you talk about policy and numbers of arrests, of deportations, there's people behind that, there's families behind that, and there's a real psychological and emotional effect there that we also have to talk about. >> what is what is so painful

about this is that this was as predictable as it is tragic. this didn't happen by accident. i mean, when you have the leader of the free world who is now saying that i'm a king, basically using every ounce of his breath and deputizing people to call people that don't look like us rapists, robbers, murderers are they're criminals. and are they violent criminals? are they part of gangs, or are they just mom and dads that came over here? or they have been here before? is it really any surprise that they get vilified in the communities that they live in? i promise you that their little girls and boys that are that are in their corner of their bedrooms wondering whether or not i.s.i.s. is going to break into the house and take them, mom and dad away. and when tom homan, who's running this whole operation, sits in these seats, and you say to him, tom, can you please help me work through this? um, let's say i'm the mayor of new orleans. i want to help you get rid of all the violent criminals. you want to get rid of somebody that's violent on my street. i'm 100% in. let's go get them. but are you going to go to grandma and grandpa and tia? and you're going to. well, you know, i'm just going to say if they're kind of around, you know,

they're going to go. that sends shockwaves. and so when i say, look, we have a broken immigration system. it's been broken for a long time. ronald reagan actually gave the best speech about this on the last speech that he gave of his presidency. donald trump's got the pen. if he's so powerful and he's so tough and he's so smart, why doesn't he just ink out an immigration proposal that, by the way, we want it to pass a couple years ago that he said, we don't want to do this. we can, you know, we can be tough and smart americans, but americans don't want to be cruel. and you're seeing you're seeing the consequence of a cruelty. now that's going to have disastrous effects for kids. >> yeah. first of all, it's very, very tragic. i mean, i have a young child, two young kids, and you always live in the fear of the outside influences, how they're going to affect them. and so as parents, as parents, me and my wife, we constantly think about that. and so we obviously hurt for the family what they go through. um, but you know, i listen, i have a mexican mom, i have a bolivian dad. i grew up in east los angeles. we've always lived under the fear of la migra coming to our neighborhoods. you know, that has always been. that wasn't a that was during reagan. that was during clinton.

that was during bush. you know, that that that has always been there. so i think we, we we sort of weaken our argument when we just try to tie it to trump directly. >> well, but but you haven't had a president, you have not had a president like trump use the language that he's used as aggressively as he's used it amongst. you can name every one of those presidents. you're right. bush, reagan, and all of them, none of them did more. >> latino votes than donald j. >> trump did. that's true. but that doesn't mean. >> he got more votes. >> than that. doesn't make less cruel. >> we don't have a lot of time. but, brian, what you just said, it struck me because you grew up understanding what that sense was like and the lack of differentiation between hard working. immigrants. and maybe some of them are undocumented, but they're not criminals and people who are. what do you think about the lack of distinction that is being made between those groups of people right now? >> you know, listen, i think where we. >> are today, you know, abe and i, we grew up in the same, almost the same neighborhood. and where we are today is, is the workers, the people who are coming here now are much different than the immigrants that the illegal immigrants that

came in the 2000, that came in the in the 90s, you know, they were sort of more of family unification. you know, they came here for the hard work, the ones that are coming now, you know, some of them are hard workers, but it's it's the pace that they've come in has become a problem. they've become a problem with the latino community. abel's right. you know, latino vote did really well with the republican party for the first time, because president trump is addressing these things. there are those those people who come to this country who play by the rules, who wait in line. my father waited in line. your father worked the fields till he until he was able get his visa. there's a process that worked. and i think the frustration that republicans have is that just because donald trump said we need to build a wall, something, by the way, hillary has said to we need to build a barrier. now we have this adverse reaction to everything. >> trump gets. >> no other president has relished in the cruelty and been as vocal about it. there's always been a level of compassion shown. republicans and democrats. george w. bush was the compassionate, conservative. donald trump is

showing absolutely no compassion. he is showing no distinction. he is relishing in the cruelty as as the people that he has delegated to do this. and they are. and part of it is precisely with the purpose of instilling fear in the immigrant community so that they leave of their own accord. and i will tell you this, i know a hell of a lot of venezuelans in miami right now who are really regretting their vote for trump because he is lifting temporary protected status. of the hundreds of thousands of venezuelans who fled maduro, who is an oppressive dictator, the guy that donald trump was just negotiating. >> i have great respect for both, for both of their histories. and i think they're right. i think the democrats relate to this issue. i think the country now understands we've got to secure our border and the things that we have to do better, that we haven't done across the last five presidents. but but you can't but you can't. and both parties, both parties, but you can't. what i find really unbelievable about this trump thing that we're in, this haze that we're in about donald trump, is somehow that he's like ronald reagan, george bush, barack obama or any other

president. this guy is a degree different. he is much better at being bad than he was, and he doesn't want any restrictions on him. and he's got a dark heart. and when you use the language and you have that powerful and that penetrates down to the ground, these kids are hearing things in the school, the ones that are doing the bullying, where do they where do you think they're getting that from? >> you just. >> have to look at. >> the. a. i just just to underscore what you're saying. i mean, i just want to for one second put the politics to the side. but when the messages that filter down to children, they are distilled down to their core essence, which is that you look like this. your mother speaks spanish. you are going to be deported. and that's what we're talking about here, right? >> yeah. i mean, i've seen cases even in my daughter's school where kids are asking, is i.c.e. going to come in? are they going to, you know, take any of my friends? there was a very sad post that i saw of a child who wrote a letter to his friend in school and said, i think he was from el salvador. and he said,

you know, if you're reading this letter, this means that i've been deported and you will probably never see me again. i mean, just the sadness of it. and it is there is a cruelty that we haven't seen with another president. just when the the secretary of state puts out an ad that says, if you come to this country legally, we will hunt you down. i mean, those words are powerful. hunt you down. secretary of state, by. >> the. >> way, whose. >> parents came here as economic immigrants. >> from cuba? >> and just to note that the trump administration has also halted legal aid for migrant children, which would leave some of them very, very young children in some cases to navigate this legal labyrinth alone. i'm not sure why that makes any sense. >> abby, uh, the system is broken. the immigration system is completely broken, and both political parties over the last 25 years, as ana stated, when george bush came in, none of them have tried to fix it. and in my heart, i feel like they use it like a political

football. they do, and this party uses. >> it for them. but were hurt. >> and i think that, look, if trump is serious about fixing it, we should see a bill. we should see a bill because that's the only way to really fix it. maria, thank you very much for joining us. we'll be back in a moment. >> hi. >> cooked books, corporate fat cats, swindling socialites, doped up cyclists then yes, more crooked politicians. i have a feeling we won't be running out of those anytime soon. >> a new season of united states of scandal with jake tapper, march 9th on cnn. >> jenin fundraiser. >> with the chase mobile app. things move a little more smoothly. deposit checks easily, and send money quickly. that's convenience from chase. >> problems with gray hair? not anymore. with the new alpecin gray attack, an easy to use shampoo for darker and thicker looking hair day by day, fight for your hair with the new

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what is actually not as great as it seems like this snow fell. >> that's insane. like having snow in new orleans, which we had the other day for 100. after 130 years. that was real. running through the airport, being starving and greg grabbing a bag of doritos and opening it up. and like the two in there and you're like, what are you what are you talking about? shrinkflation exactly. >> yeah, that's no good. >> yeah. mine is. >> the drumstick ice cream. if you look at the drumstick, it's no longer ice cream anymore. it's it's dessert flavored, a dessert, a frozen dessert. but, you know, they've taken ice cream out of ice cream. so ice cream is not what it seems anymore. and i'm pretty devastated. but apparently this has been on social media, tiktok for several years, and i just read about it last week. >> what, like. >> artificial artificial stuff? it doesn't even melt anymore. the drumsticks don't even melt anymore. >> yeah. that sounds. >> you should read it. the label is quite frightening. >> all right. >> abby, abby, i wrote some stuff down. mines. fancy pet products. i mean, we have a lot of animals on the farm, and now you see cashmere dog beds. you see gucci pet carriers, you see

fancy tree towers for kitty cats. >> sitting. >> next to chewy. yes. >> you see chewy dog toys and it all sounds great, but my dog, they choose. they still nibble at the couch. they still choose a box over the tree tower. and you know, at the end of the day, they choose a chair instead of their thing. it's what it is. >> yeah, my dog prefers the couch to any dog bed i have ever given him. he's not interested. go ahead. anna. >> i'm sorry. i'm just not in the mood after that conversation about jocelynn rojo carranza to segway into a lighthearted topic. it's something that's really weighing on me because i live in miami, a community that is going through incredible pain right now. so i'm going to use my time to urge parents to reassure their kids, to urge parents to teach their kids not to bully others because of where they may come from, or where their parents may have come from. to ask teachers to make sure that schools are safe spaces and that our children can go to school without fear of

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