>> never. slam's. >> shower and count how many full baths you have. >> it's a jack and jill. >> selling your home to open door is so easy. you can do it during half time. >> erin burnett out front. next on cnn. >> finally tonight, a passing to note. rose garden, the world's oldest known holocaust survivor, has died. she was born in 1912 into a jewish family in what is now southeast poland. before moving to germany as a child in 1939. she, along with her husband and newborn daughter, fled nazi germany, only to be forced into a jewish ghetto in shanghai. rose jahren was 113 years old. may she rest in peace and may her memory be a blessing. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. this important programing note starting monday, this coming monday, the situation room is

expanding to two hours and moving to mornings. joining join me, please. and my colleague pamela brown every weekday from 10 a.m. to 12 noon eastern. erin burnett outfront starts right now. >> outfront next, breaking news in putin. he trusts the president, saying the russian president would not violate a deal to end the war in ukraine. as trump is about to sit down with zelenskyy in just hours. plus, new york governor kathy hochul on her promise to hire federal workers who have been fired by trump. she's our guest. and new breaking details on the investigation into the mysterious death of actor gene hackman, his wife and their dog. as we have new video tonight of one of the last times hackman was seen alive. let's go out front. and good evening, i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight, the breaking news. zelenskyy and trump face to face. the president of ukraine tonight on his way to washington for a high stakes meeting with president trump, the first time that the two will meet since trump's

reelection. >> we're working very hard to get that war brought to an end. i think we've made a lot of progress. i think it's moving along pretty rapidly. >> for trump, the deal includes a deal regarding ukraine's prized rare earth minerals. one of trump's top economic advisers saying that that deal could net $20 billion, which $20 billion is $20 billion. whatever you think of the merits of the deal still compared to the u.s. budget it's nothing. we're talking about less than one third of 1% of a nearly $7 trillion budget. but this is what trump wanted. and as the former foreign minister of ukraine told us the other day, there was zero chance ukraine wasn't going to do that deal because it had no choice. and trump says that when it comes down to it, when it comes down to it. on this deal, he trusts vladimir putin to keep his word on ending the war in ukraine. >> mr. president. >> would you be willing to do if vladimir putin did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine? >> if you know.

>> what, he did not stick to the terms of any deal on ukraine. >> i've known him for a long time now, and i think he will. i don't believe he is going to violate his word. >> this is a hugely significant thing to say, of course. and the question looming over this is why? why would trump trust putin to not violate his word? and why is this such a crucial question? because here are the facts on putin and agreements. in 1996, russia had a peace agreement with chechnya. three years later, putin, prime minister of russia, ordered russian troops to invade in violation of that deal or take georgia. there was a ceasefire between georgia and russia throughout the 1990s. putin is the one who broke that cease fire, sending his troops in to invade georgia in 2008. and now trump trusts putin to keep his word, to just take, i guess, some parts of eastern ukraine which are burned to the ground and littered with mines and just walk away and never touch ukraine again. he trusts him. and putin invaded ukraine in 2014, seized crimea, agreed to the minsk agreements and then went ahead and continued to

fight ukraine in the donbas for years. and then that full scale invasion in 2022, when putin said this. >> was the. >> soviet government. >> created soviet ukraine. this is well known to everyone. >> until then, there was never. any ukraine in the. history of humanity. >> never any ukraine in the history of humanity. i mean, that says it all. but then there's this before the start of the 2022 full scale invasion, putin published an article claiming russia was robbed of its historical lands. he went on to write that the russians and ukrainians are, quote, one people. so if anybody trusts putin on his word, maybe they should listen to those words which he has said and written again and again, even handing out a document, laying out how ukraine is part of russia to every soldier in russia. and the summer before his invasion of ukraine. but trump today says he trusts putin to keep his word, this time because some american workers might be at rare earth

mineral sites in ukraine. why? >> i also have a very good relationship, as you know, with president putin. i knew putin very well. i got along with him, actually. great. putin is a nicer person than i am. so now i like putin. now, putin called me a genius, by the way. >> so he's putting all of that at more value than putin's track record on breaking deals and what he has said. his word about ukraine being part of russia. trump has also pushed putin's propaganda, like claiming zelenskyy is a dictator. >> a dictator without elections. zelenskyy better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. >> a dictator. he said it. he was very clear. yet today, one very interesting thing happened on this dictator front. just listen to trump's response when he was asked about those comments, when he called zelenskyy a dictator. >> so. >> um. >> did i say that? i can't

believe i said that. next question. >> mr. trademark trump moment, right? it's hard to know if he's pretending not to remember. pretty much impossible. it's gotten so much coverage, whether he's trying to be facetious about it, whatever it is, a few hours later after that that i just played you, this moment caught our attention. >> i think we're going to have a very good meeting tomorrow morning. we're going to get along really well. okay. we have a lot of respect. i have a lot of respect for him. >> a lot of respect for him. trump clearly softening his stance when it comes to zelenskyy. the big question on that, of course, is why? jeff zeleny is outfront live outside the white house. and you know, jeff, that was a very clear shift in tone from the president talking about zelenskyy, right, who he has spoken of in incredibly derogatory and demeaning terms in recent days. what we just heard, there was a shift from that. what's behind that seeming shift? >> erin, it's this simple. it's a president who wants to make a deal. and president trump is on

the eve of making a deal here with ukraine to share some of those minerals. the details of this deal are still coming together. i'm told the the fine print is still being worked out, but there is no question president zelenskyy is in route. he will be here within hours. and the point here to all of this is throughout the day, throughout the week, really longtime allies of the u.s. from france, president emmanuel macron on monday to british prime minister keir starmer here today trying to awaken the american president to look at the history here, to sort of focus on the alliances and to sort of pull him a little bit away from vladimir putin. it was clear today, in very stark terms, sitting in the oval office and then later in the east room. president trump says that he believes vladimir putin. he trusts him. so that's where this begins. but as far as zelenskyy, he wants to make a deal tomorrow. he wants to have,

you know, really preside over what would be one of the biggest shifts in american foreign policy in modern history, if not more. uh, you know, signing this deal with the ukraine, the invaded country, not the aggressor, but the words of keir starmer there talking about winning the peace, essentially begging the u.s. president for some type of security guarantee. the only guarantee, really, that we know of is that rare earths mineral deal. the president said we'll be digging, will be digging. he said the american interests there could help protect ukraine. but, aaron, the history you laid out is clear. that is the backdrop for this meeting tomorrow. it certainly will be a historic one. >> aaron. all right. thank you very much, jeff zeleny. and let's go now to leon panetta, former defense secretary, former cia director and retired admiral james stavridis, former nato supreme allied commander. secretary panetta, trump says of putin, i've known him for a long time now. i don't believe he's going to violate his word. um, of course, we laid out some

of his words that there has never been any ukraine in the history of humanity. and russians and ukrainians are one people, but those aren't the words that trump's referring to. he's referring to. if putin says he'll stay out of ukraine, he'll stay out of ukraine. is trump right to trust him? >> i, you know, uh. aaron, uh. >> as cia. >> director. >> uh, i. >> had an awful lot of intelligence, uh, on putin and his background, uh, and his trustworthiness. and the bottom line is that it was clear that we could never trust putin's word. uh, you've you've basically laid out how many times he's violated his word. uh, and i think it's important for the president, and i understand he's trying to get putin to the table, but he has got to know that putin is not trustworthy and that anything he

does has to be verified. i recommend he take reagan's position, which is trust, but verify. >> admiral stavridis, there was a speech in november that putin gave. he was talking about his overall view here, which is a new world order and the end of unipolarity. right, which was referring to the west, but also specifically the united states, which you hear, you know, people who speak to, you know, russian soldiers on the front lines. it's about the west. it's about the united states. and and those, again, are words from putin, right? a new world order where the u.s. isn't on top of it. so do you think he's going to accept a peace deal in that context and not violate his word? >> uh, i. >> wouldn't trust him as far as i could throw him. >> and i'm. >> with. >> uh. >> secretary panetta. >> one of my. >> great bosses and mentors. >> good to be on. >> with you, sir. >> um, i. >> have two.

>> points to. >> make very quickly. >> number one, uh. >> you need to. find some levers to put. >> over putin. >> so tell. him the day you. reinvade is the day. >> we bring ukraine into. >> nato. or the day you invade is the day u.s. troops will join the french and. >> the british. >> in ukraine. or the day you invade is the day there is. an absolute. >> ironclad no. fly zone. >> for russian forces over ukraine. >> you need. >> to put some levers in play there in order to make sure. he hews to his word. because, as you pointed out, and as the secretary of said, um, he is not to be trusted. >> secretary, you know, boots on the ground mentioned there by by admiral stavridis, the prime minister of the uk who trump met with today, said the uk is ready to put his words boots on the ground and planes in the air their own to enforce a peace deal where, of course, if there's any sort of conflict right then that's against a nato power that that, that that's a direct violation. um, trump has not agreed to do the same right now. obviously, as we

understand it at this point, there are no security, uh, security guarantees in this deal whatsoever. do you think the u.s., though, should be doing this? boots on the ground, planes in the air. >> i, i think the united states, uh, has been an ally with our nato friends, uh, since world war ii. uh, and we have worked in a unified way to try to support ukraine in this war. uh, and i think the united states ought to be part and parcel of any agreement, uh, to be able to provide a security assurance to make sure that ukraine is protected from the kind of invasion that we've seen from russia. so i, i really do believe that the united states ought to be willing to participate in any kind of united nato force that will

assure the security of ukraine. >> admiral, do you agree? >> i 100% do. >> i'll make another point. which is. >> um, it it could be boots. >> on the ground, but i think a better way to think of it would be. >> to. >> put, uh, french and british boots on the ground. but the u.s. provides. >> cyber security. we provide the intelligence, we provide the logistics, we provide. the flow of. >> information and goods that support it. we can be the back office. for this thing. and here's the good news. there's an enormous u.s. military command, which i was privileged to command under secretary panetta, u.s. european command in place. thousands of. u.s. troops. they can be that backstop in that back office. >> that's the way to set. >> this up. >> secretary panetta, quickly before we go, um, i just want to give you a chance to confirm, i believe you've signed with four other former secretaries of

defense. uh, a letter calling on congress to hold hearings immediately on trump's firing of the head of the joint chiefs of staff and other senior military leaders. what do you think needs to be investigated? >> well, look, the secretaries of defense, we understand that if you want the right kind of military leadership to be able to guide our forces, that they have to be experienced, that they have to have combat experience, that they have to be people who have a distinguished record in the military and that they have to be apolitical. uh, and to dismiss the key military leadership that we've had for no other reason but that they were members of the prior administration, creates a sense that from now on, military leaders are going to be judged politically rather than based on their military experience. so it's for that reason that the secretaries of defense feel that

there have to be hearings to oversee just exactly what took place and what standard this administration is going to use. >> secretary panetta, thank you very much. admiral stavridis, i appreciate both of you very much. and next, we have some breaking news just coming in as we're speaking here, a federal judge just ruling that thousands of the mass firings by trump are likely unlawful. this is just coming into outfront. we're going to give you the details on that. exactly what it means in terms of the firings at this very moment going on. plus, pay up. that's what new york's governor is telling trump tonight, saying he owes new york state $15 billion from the federal coffers. why governor kathy hochul is next. and grim details emerging tonight about the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of actor gene hackman and his wife. as we have new video tonight and out front of the one of the last times hackman was seen alive. >> tell us about accepting. >> bribes. >> the stuff he did that was

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forty's going to be my year. >> i can feel the winds of change. >> anderson cooper. >> 360 tonight at eight on cnn. >> all right, breaking news. a federal judge just ruled that the trump administration's mass firing of probationary employees was likely unlawful. a moment of relief for the thousands of workers who had been fired by trump's sweeping cuts, many of them probationary, which just meant that they had only worked there for less than two years or had been promoted in less than two years before. the judge writing that the office of personnel management, quote, does not have any authority whatsoever under any statute in the history of the universe. that's a quote in the history of the universe to hire or fire any employees but its own katelyn polantz is out front. joining us live on the phone with this breaking news. caitlin, i just, you know, words like that from a judge stand out. and nothing in the history of the universe would provide precedent for this. does that

stand out to you? and what more does the judge say that does stand out to you? >> it does. >> stand out. and this case. >> stands out. erin, this. >> is a different. >> situation than we are seeing in a lot of other cases. there's maybe a dozen or so protesting the firings of employees. >> at the federal government. >> this one in particular is about unions going to court and saying the. office of personnel management looks to be the office that. is telling agencies. >> across the government. >> this is how we're firing. probationary employees on behalf of donald trump's agenda. probationary employees, they're not on probation for their jobs. they're actually just serving in that role. for, um, a shorter amount of time. so they don't have more of the tenure protections of long term federal workers. thousands of them have been fired at lots of different agencies. and what the unions argued to this judge is that they're arguing specifically about the office of personnel

management involvement. so they're not arguing against the agencies that did the firings, and they're arguing to the judge, opm should not have this authority. congress gave the agencies themselves the authority here to determine whether or not people should keep their jobs as federal workers or not. and the judge has already gotten a little bit of evidence. he got a sworn statement from the director of opm, charles ezell, who is saying, um, we didn't make this implementation. we just gave guidance to the agencies. but the judge here is making this temporary decision at least saying, well, if opm did it, that's not right. that's going to be unlawful. and this is a pretty significant finding today. >> all right. well, katelyn polantz, thank you very much. appreciate that. so now let's go out front to the democratic governor of new york, kathy hochul. and governor, so much to talk to you about. but obviously, this is an issue now at the center of things for new york, too, because you had been saying that you wanted to hire

federal workers who perhaps had been part of this purge. so what's your reaction when you hear this federal judge saying that what opm is doing, at least at this point, in those mass firings of workers who had only been in their jobs for 1 or 2 years, right. shorter term is unlawful. two reactions. >> one is i'm not surprised. and number two, thank god. >> we have a judiciary as a check. >> on the overreach of power that we're. witnessing by the hour, by donald trump and elon musk. so yes, this is an important decision that. says you went too far. but i think we'll be seeing a lot more cases where the judges say this has never happened in the history of the universe, and this is the new world we're in. they don't believe in laws. they don't believe in the system of government we have. they don't believe in states rights. they're just like bulldozing through it all. and thank god there's a judge who stood up to them today. >> well, i mean, the words do stand out. never any statute in the history of the universe. um, big statement to say, i suppose, but that's an existential question. um, all right, so you also posted and this is what i want to get at, you posted in part, um, forget what doge says,

new york wants you. all right. caps on on the you. um, and, you know, i spoke this week to one of those probationary workers who worked at bronx veterans hospitals named luke graziano, a 20 year veteran. four tours in iraq and afghanistan fired from his job at the bronx hospital on valentine's day. goes in at 8 a.m. has the email. you're gone. um, and he had five weeks until he wasn't probationary. right. so it's just very capricious in terms of how it happened. um, let me just play some of what he said about what happened. >> it's surreal to. >> think that. had this come five weeks later, i would have had no issues whatsoever. i'm very privileged to have the job that i have or had. yeah. um, i very much like to get back to it. um. i think no one, no one deserves a job. but if they're willing to, you know, raise their right hand and swear the oath and become a federal service employee. i think that they have every right.

>> so when you post, um, you know, forget what doge says. new york wants you. what does that mean for luke? >> what that means is this. this administration loves to say you're fired because they think they're living in a game show. once again, this is not a silly game called the apprentice. these are real people's lives. people like luke, who works hard. he lives in queens. he thought he had a job taking care of veterans. and he's a veteran himself. he served in iraq, in afghanistan four times. these are the heroes. you know what they get from this administration instead of thank you for your service. they get you're fired. so i said, these are the people you want to be part of our state workforce. so not you're fired, but you're hired. so we set up a database. we want you to take a look at it. we have a shortage of state workers. we need more people to work. we need people that work in it. we need people who want to be guards. we want to. we have people that can work in so many areas, but we respect public service in our state. we don't denigrate it and treat these people like they're

nothing. and collateral damage to the buzzsaw of elon musk. this has to stop. but not only that, but they're providing services to our seniors and taking care of programs. they keep people safe. they keep our skies safe. they're researching ways to solve for bird flu. they're helping us find cures for cancer. we have to honor their service. and right here in the state of new york, that's exactly what we plan to do. >> all right. so let me ask you about some protests here in new york. and i know you've been obviously in the city all day. there were protesters demanding you use your powers, which you have as the governor, to remove new york mayor eric adams from office. one sign you see there. governor hochul fired him. shame on you, mayor adams. and another one says claims adams is trump's puppet. um, and, uh, look, these are protests that came just a few days after you said you weren't going to do that at the time you had the option. you said, i'm not going to to get rid of him. even amidst all of this consternation that he is doing trump's

bidding on immigration in exchange for those charges being dropped, he denies that that is a quid pro quo. um, but when you see these protests, you think about this situation. do you have any regrets? think you should have gotten rid of him? >> no. people know this about me. there are often pressure campaigns to try to get me to do something i don't want to do. it always backfires. i will stand up to protests when i believe i'm doing something that is right for the people of this state, and in this case, it is an extraordinary power that a governor has to be able to say, i think you violated the public trust and you should go. what i'm basically doing is overturning the will of new yorkers who selected the mayor to govern the city. and i'm trying to put in safeguards so people have a better sense. >> if there weren't primaries in june, would you feel differently? you only have a few months. >> of primaries in june, but also. overturning an election, unlike what the trump administration would do. i have to respect the rule of law. i

respect our democracy. but i'm keeping an eye on this. i understand the protest, i really do. i know why they're frustrated and they're worried about undue influence from the trump administration, who is trying so hard, trying so hard to tell me what to do. tell the mayor what to do. try to tell all of us what to do. but we have to stand up to him now more than ever and say, no, you're not going to boss us around. we're new yorkers. >> are you going to win on the congestion pricing? i mean, you went in, you made a presentation. you said you put it in his language. um, and and he says he wants to end the congestion pricing, which has reduced traffic. you have broadway sales up, you have foot traffic up. you have businesses doing better. i mean, you've got numbers on your side. yes we do. he said he doesn't care. >> it's extraordinary to me that the president of united states, who has a lot of other things on his plate, is focused on the governor's traffic policies in the city of new york. i mean, go focus on something else. this is for us to determine. this is part of our self-determination as states. this is voted on by duly

elected representatives of the people of new york. and you can't overturn it without a fight for me. and that's what we're heading into. i believe we'll be successful in the courts and we'll see what happens after that. if they want to work with me on helping fund new architecture or new infrastructure, let's do penn station. let's do the second avenue subway, let's do the interborough express, which will connect queens and brooklyn for the first time. i've got so many great ideas that they can work with me on, but don't shut down something that's working just because you want to. come on, it's working. the data proves it. and the people of new york, many who hated it at first, are coming around saying life is better here now. >> all right. well, governor hochul, very much appreciate your time. and thank you so much. thank you. governor hochul from new york and next, the mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths of oscar winner gene hackman and his wife. police are now saying they actually had been mummified, as we are now hearing the frantic 911 call at their discovery. >> are they moving. >> at all? no, they're not

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>> call one. ( 800) 269-9522. >> that's one( 800) 269-9522. >> i'm pete. muntean at reagan national airport. this is cnn. >> breaking news. you are looking at video of one of the last times oscar winner gene hackman, a known recluse in recent years, was seen in public. as we're learning new details this hour about the circumstances surrounding his death, his front door open. scattered pills on the bathroom countertop. one dog dead in the closet, two still alive on the property. 95 year old hackman and his wife, a 63 year old classical pianist. their german

shepherd dog. all of them. tonight mysteriously dead. and police right now have ruling ruling out a carbon monoxide leak. this frantic 911 call captured the moment they were found. >> are they moving at all? no, they're not moving. just send somebody up here really quick. >> okay. my units are on their way. okay. >> so josh campbell is there outside hackman's santa fe home right now with more of the stunning details surrounding these deaths. >> i don't have a lot of fears. i have the normal fear of of passing away. you know, i guess we all think about that. >> tonight. >> an investigation is underway into the death of two time oscar. winner gene hackman. >> they're going to work this case. they're going to look at every aspect, um, and and figure out, try to figure out the exact cause. and again, i think the autopsy is going to be key. and the toxicology. but again, in my experience, you know, that that could take a while. >> the 95. >> year old hollywood icon. >> was found dead. wednesday

inside his new mexico home. >> along with his 65. year old wife. >> betsy arakawa. >> and a. >> dog, according. >> to officials. circumstances which the. >> santa fe county sheriff's office. >> called suspicious enough in nature. >> to require a thorough search. >> and. >> investigation. >> it's concerning that every every, uh, everyone in the house, including the dog, um, is deceased. deputies were called. >> to. >> hackman's house. >> on. >> a welfare check request. >> made by two maintenance. >> workers, according to a search warrant. >> no, they're not moving. just send somebody out here really quick. >> inside. >> deputies found the couple's bodies in different rooms and say they appeared to have been there for some time. hackman in a mud room. his wife in a bathroom near a space heater with an open prescription bottle on the counter and pills scattered around. deputies say she had obvious signs of death and body decomposition. two dogs were also found on the property, with a third found dead near arakawa's body. officials did not find any signs of forced entry, and the fire department and gas company didn't find any obvious signs of a gas leak or

carbon monoxide. a sheriff's office spokesperson says the cause of death has not been confirmed, but it is not believed to be foul play. and here in santa fe, sheriff's department officials are working behind me have yet another high profile death case on their hands. erin, you and i covered at length the alec baldwin case that fatal shooting on the set of the movie rust. this is the same investigative team that worked that case. now, we did get some new information tonight from sheriff's officials. we're told that an autopsy has been conducted on both hackman as well as his wife. they say that initial findings note no external trauma to either individual. they say that carbon monoxide toxicology toxicology reports have been requested. finally, as sheriff's officials gather information, it's worth pointing out that this could take weeks or months before we know exactly what the cause of death is. that's because these medical examiner cases often take time in order to get to the root cause of these deaths. erin. >> wow. incredible. the same team, though, from the alec baldwin case. on the rust on the rust set. all right. thank you

very much, josh. and joining me now is the tmz executive producer, charles latibeaudiere. and charles so tmz, you know, you all have been breaking leading the breaking news on this story all day. so what more are you learning at this hour? i mean, this is an incredibly bizarre mystery. >> yeah, a. mystery. >> exactly. >> erin. you know, in the affidavit. >> that the. >> police filed. >> uh. to get their search warrants, they said that it. and you actually. >> heard. >> in josh's. >> report, they said. >> that they. >> called it suspicious. i agree with you. i think mysterious is. >> probably a little more accurate right now, because. >> there were so many things that they found. >> when they went in there that that lead you down one path. >> but then it just. >> doesn't add up. you know, they said that next to betts's body. >> was the. >> space heater. uh, and immediately you start thinking, oh, carbon monoxide. but they, you know, they brought out the fire department, the gas company. they don't find any evidence of that. but then this thing about the fact that we don't know right now how long they were both dead, because

they said that the bodies were, uh, in state of decomposition, that there was mummification. so we may be talking several days that the bodies were there and and then going back and trying to trace, trying to trace. what were the conditions in the house if it was three, 4 or 5 days ago? it's hard to determine what that is now that, you know, when they from the time that the police actually enter the house. uh, it is really strange. i will say, though, the one thing about the one dog being found dead, the dog that died was about 10 to 15ft away from betsy in a closet. um, and the other dog being alive, that was in the house. and another dog that was outside of the house was alive. that, to me, definitely eliminates. obviously, the fire department said this too, but it can't be. i would think carbon monoxide or a gas leak, because why would that one dog have survived that was inside the house? >> right, right. exactly. because carbon monoxide would kill a dog as well. uh, just the

dog being shut in the closet for whatever reason. of course, that's just horrible to contemplate. that death. um, look, i know that you've had a chance at tmz. you have spoken to hackman's daughter. now she's 63, about the exact same age as hackman's wife. and i know she told police that the family suspected carbon monoxide poisoning. that's the first headline we saw earlier today. but then, as you point out, police say that they have no traces of that, that that is that is not the path. um, so when your team spoke with her, did she elaborate on why she thought that and what else did she share with you? >> she didn't. she said that she thought that and that that was based on the initial findings of what they knew from law enforcement at that point, uh, which was very limited, just that their bodies were found that they were both, uh, deceased and that one of the dogs was dead. i get why, uh, early this morning, we did speak to her very early this morning. yeah. um, that she was thinking at that point that it must be carbon monoxide. carbon monoxide

poisoning. um, but again, as we just discussed, it doesn't add up to that now. um, and we've been we've been trying to get in touch with her to see if there's any more information they've gotten from law enforcement, but we have not heard back from her. i don't think it doesn't add up to that at this point. >> yeah. yeah. it is. so you know the word mysterious. i mean, it is really it's captured everyone to try to understand exactly what could have happened here. charles, thanks so much. really appreciate you taking the time and coming on. >> thanks, erin. >> all right. well, hackman built this remarkable career that he had, against all odds, abandoned by his father. mother died in a fire. he and a longtime friend named dustin hoffman were even voted least likely to succeed by their classmates. jason carroll is outfront. >> i don't like to talk about myself that much. gene hackman had a. hard time watching himself on the big screen, but. >> the same could not be. >> said for audiences who. >> helped to make. >> him one of the greatest american actors to grace the.

silver screen. you got a stupid smile, you know that. hackman was. >> known as an actor's actor. >> the new. >> york times. >> called him. hollywood's perfect everyman. that's because. hackman had that innate ability to embody every type of character he portrayed. we're going now. goodbye. >> whether it. was a narcotics. >> detective, a bank robber, or a basketball coach. hackman could make audiences see something authentic in his characters. >> you know. >> most people would kill to be treated like a god. hackman had a prolific career, though he got a late start to acting. eugene hackman was born january 30th, 1930, in california. his father ran a printing press. the family moved around a bit, finally settling in illinois. hackman says a traumatic incident as an early teenager may have been the catalyst for his wanting to become an actor. it was the moment his father abandoned the family. he was playing in the street when he says he watched his father wave and drive away. i wasn't bitter, i was, you

know, uh, disappointed. certainly. uh, hurt, you know? i don't think i was ever bitter. i loved him. hackman told vanity fair. it was so precise. maybe that's why i became an actor. i doubt i would have become so sensitive to human behavior if that hadn't happened to me as a child. if i hadn't realized how much one small gesture can mean. hackman lied about his age and joined the marines at 16, becoming a radio field operator. he worked odd jobs for years and didn't pursue acting until he was 30. his mother died before his movie career took off in a fire started by her own cigarette. >> did you always want to be an actor? >> well, i. did secretly. i didn't want to tell anybody because i was ashamed. i thought maybe that was that. that was something that lightweights did. hackman received a best supporting oscar nomination for his part in bonnie and clyde. what one of his toughest roles? portraying a new york city

detective in the french connection. hackman asked the director to replace him because he felt he was in over his head. i don't. >> think i've. >> ever been. pushed as much by a director either, which was really good for me. >> and the winner is. the winner is mr. gene hackman. >> in 1972, an academy award win for best actor in the french connection. more iconic roles would follow his take on lex luthor in superman. >> you were. >> great in your day, superman. >> i wouldn't play superman for anything. >> you don't envy christopher getting into the cape. >> well, he uses my body, of course. >> of course. >> to coach norman dale in hoosiers. >> i don't care. >> what the. >> scoreboard says. >> at the end of the game. >> in my. >> book, we're going. >> to be winners. >> another oscar nomination for his portrayal of fbi agent rupert anderson in mississippi burning. a best supporting actor win in 1993 for his performance

as sheriff little bill in the dark western unforgiven. more than 80 films spanning some six decades. through all the work, all the accolades. hackman just saw himself as an actor. >> your name goes above the title, but are you a star? >> no. you know, warren beatty is a star. you know, robert redford is a star. brad pitt i never think of myself that way. oh, but he was a star, all right. you know, there were so many memorable roles, it was hard to get them all in there. young frankenstein, the royal tenenbaums. i mean, and another point. you know, hackman could have had it easy. he could have been a tv star. he was the first choice to play mike brady in the brady bunch, but he turned it all down. he wanted to go after the meatier roles. he said actually playing a villain was one of the things he liked doing best. >> and he was amazing at it. >> oh, incredible. >> it's hard to want to be really good at being the bad guy. >> the bad guy. but that's where he said all the meat was in the

roles. yeah. yeah. he's going to be missed. >> thank you, jason carroll. and next, the backlash over elon musk's drastic cuts exploding in an unlikely place, a very unlikely place called conservative radio. plus, a right wing influencer accused of rape and human trafficking is now back in the united states with his brother. the two refusing to say if president trump was the one who helped them get out of romania. how did they get out? >> i'm howie. >> mandel, the newest ambassador of skechers. >> funny story. >> how i became an ambassador. i went to the store and i lied and said i was an ambassador. do i get a discount? the owner called me and said, would you like to be an ambassador for skechers? and i said, yes, try skechers slip ins. >> if you. >> have. >> this. >> consider adding this. >> an aarp. >> medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare does and let you see any doctor, any specialist anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this,

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