course, loves your show as well. but i've got to ask you this question about, and i can't even saying this. amber, um, who wore it better, fetterman or adam sandler? >> uh, yeah, there is definitely some big overlap in adam sandler's day to day and john fetterman's day to day, but i'm going to go ahead and say john fetterman wore it better because he was at the white house making a statement. um, but i guess the same thing could be said for adam sandler. gosh, i'm going to call it a tie. >> oh. >> well, you know what? a tie is not what fetterman will wear. but i remember interviewing him for the white house correspondents dinner, and he had on us he had on a actual sweatshirt, and he had cufflinks. he had cufflinks in the actual hoodie. and i just thought, you know what this

>> you say at that dinner. amber ruffin, good to see you. >> hey, good to see you, everyone. >> thank you so much. and of course, thank you for watching. anderson cooper 360 is next. >> tonight on 360. major breaking news. president trump pausing military aid to ukraine. what? he wants to turn the aid back on, and whether it's something president zelenskyy can actually deliver. also, a special report on how doge cuts threaten life saving food for hundreds of thousands of malnourished kids. and later, more breaking news. why was the head of the fbi's new york office forced out of his job? good evening. we begin tonight with the breaking news. a source telling cnn that president trump has paused all military aid to ukraine, just days after a major blowup between him, the vice president and president zelenskyy that puts in question the future of u.s. commitments to ukrainian and european security. a white house official tells cnn, quote, the president has been clear that he is focused on peace. we need our partners to be committed to that

goal as well. we're pausing and reviewing our aid to ensure that it is contributing to a solution. well, that news comes hours after the president was asked in a news conference about stalled talks over rare earth minerals deal and security guarantees. >> what do you need to see from president zelenskyy to restart these negotiations? >> well, i just think he should be more appreciative. >> or appreciative. he said it's similar to the claim he and vice president during that fiery, roughly ten minute exchange in the oval office last week that zelenskyy had been disrespectful and needs to be more thankful. well, today, ukraine's parliament expressed its profound gratitude specifically to trump in a statement. but trump also appeared to be angry at a statement zelenskyy made on sunday that the end of the war is, quote, very, very far away. >> he thinks the war's going to go on for a long time. uh, and he better not be right about that. that's all. >> also tonight, a senior u.s. official tells cnn that is, the u.s. is pausing aid to ukraine. it's also suspended its

operations and planning for offensive cyber operations against russia. that official called the suspension a, quote, major blow. his concern that this pause will make the u.s. more vulnerable to potential cyber attacks from moscow. i want to start tonight with our pentagon correspondent, oren liebermann. so what do we know about what led to this decision and what the impact will be immediately and long term? >> well, the immediate decision here was made in large part because of the disastrous meeting last week between ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy, president donald trump and vice president jd vance. the u.s., the white house has been clear that they don't think zelenskyy showed enough gratitude, attitude and appreciation for what the u.s. has done. worth pointing out that zelenskyy has thanked the u.s., and specifically the biden administration, for all of the aid they have announced. the trump administration simply hasn't announced any aid and was only sending what the biden administration had previously announced it would ship. and that's exactly what's on pause here. just yesterday, we heard from a defense official that

there were anti-tank rounds, thousands of artillery rounds and more rockets that were still on the way to ukraine that had been announced in the closing weeks of the biden administration. that continued flow of military equipment was expected to continue for at least some weeks. it has now been stopped. everything that's not already in ukraine will be stopped in some fashion, where it is before it ever gets to ukraine, it will have a quick and critical effect on ukraine's military. although the country was able to produce some of its own military equipment, for example its drones, and it certainly got help from european countries as well. the u.s. was a major contributor to ukraine's ability to stay in the fight, and that has very abruptly ended here, as you pointed out, anderson. the white house officials said this could continue. the aid could keep on moving if zelenskyy shows he is a partner for peace. but it's not just zelenskyy that thinks that, it's that russian president vladimir putin isn't interested in peace. and that, of course, is the crux of the

problem here. >> does the pentagon have a prediction for how long ukrainian military can stay in the fight without american military aid? >> not a specific prediction or assessment that we've heard of. it's also an open question as to how much aid still has to flow in. the biden administration announced about $3 billion in aid in the last two months. that is december and january. some of that is still what's flowing in. it was expected to continue for several weeks, but there's no number on how much is is left to go in. we'll see if we can get an assessment of how quickly this will affect the front lines and and how much russia's military can take advantage of it. but given the reliance on u.s. weapons and military equipment, this could be felt potentially very quickly. >> oren liebermann, thanks. i want to go now to cnn anchor and chief white house correspondent kaitlan collins. what would this pause? caitlin? i mean, would this have happened if zelenskyy hadn't pushed back against president trump and vice president vance when they started scolding him in the oval on friday? would anything have avoided this? >> no, this would not have

happened had that not been such a big blow up. this is directly a result of what we all watched play out in dramatic fashion on friday, something that officials have been talking about all week, and they feel emboldened by that interaction that, you know, the way that they felt about zelenskyy all along. obviously, there's been certainly not as warm of a relationship as as with the previous administration. they have felt this all along. and so they feel emboldened by that. and so that is part of why this decision was made today. i'm told, anderson, this decision was made just in the last several hours. it was something that that senior officials were considering throughout the day and then finally made the decision to to pause this aid for now, until they essentially get an acknowledgment from zelenskyy about what happened inside the oval on friday. he did not explicitly apologize when he was asked during an interview on fox news on friday to do so, and essentially arguing he didn't feel that he needed to apologize. but we heard from other officials, like secretary of state marco rubio, saying that they did believe he needed to. and that is part of what we're seeing here with the military aid. there's also been no movement forward on the

minerals deal right now. we'll see if that does happen tomorrow. but i'm told that until there is a public acknowledgment from zelenskyy on this front on what happened on friday, there is not likely to be movement on the minerals deal or on this aid. it is very clearly being used as basically a negotiating tactic with the ukrainians. >> and is anybody in the white house concerned about the message this sends to america's allies? i mean, i assume not. >> that's not the sense we've gotten. we've gotten instead, they're viewing it more as a negotiating position for them in terms of what this looks like and the relationship between the united states and ukraine. and so, obviously, this is notable because all of this aid that is going to ukraine is not something that president trump himself has used, what is known as his drawdown authority to send this to ukraine. it was done from the previous administration, but those shipments were still going out. and they do have the right to do that. they have the authority to do that. but this is why you saw the biden administration in those last few weeks that they were in office trying to surge these shipments to, to get to ukraine. obviously it's

difficult. a lot of it is coming from, you know, contracts that ukraine has signed with military contractors here in the united states to build equipment and ammunition that they obviously so desperately need. the real question is how long this pause lasts. that is going to be what's key for the ukrainians. maybe it's not that long. maybe there is that acknowledgment. that is what is the real question of what happens next year. >> all right, caitlin, we'll see you at the top of the hour. caitlin is going to interview republican congressman chip roy. i'm joined now by democratic congressman dan goldman of new york. um, congressman, i mean, what is this? what, are you surprised by this at all? >> sadly, i'm not surprised. um, and fully expected it as a child who is basically leading the leader of the free world through petulant insults and personal grievances. um, first of all, i don't know what donald trump expects president zelenskyy to thank him for. he certainly should thank president biden, which he has done over

and over again. and he should thank congress, which he has done over and over again, because we are the only two entities that have actually provided support and funding for ukraine. donald trump, instead is calling zelenskyy. editor is saying that ukraine started this war is now stopping offensive cyber security attacks on russia. what happened to peace through strength? anderson i thought here he is saying we're not going to give ukraine aid, which would show strength, and he's not putting pressure on russia through the cyber warfare. this is the exact opposite of peace through strength. instead, what it is, is it's another extortion of president zelenskyy illegally withholding aid in order to get president zelenskyy to agree to a minerals deal, which is back payment for all the aid that president biden had provided. >> there was no indication, i mean, in all the reporting that i saw that russia has stopped

cyber operations against the united states. have you seen anything to indicate that they have? >> no. and in fact, there was reporting that as recently as a few weeks ago, i assume during the trump administration, um, there were reports of russian cyber warfare operations. and this has been going on for a long time. we, of course, know about russia's interference in the 2016 election through cyber warfare that helped donald trump. this time around, though, russia is very aggressively using cyber warfare, and the notion that we would stop offensive cyber warfare against russia is a complete acknowledgment and concession to russia that we are not going to put pressure on them. i don't know what peace deal he's talking about, anderson. basically, he wants ukraine to cave. that's the only thing that i can tell. >> it's rather chilling. there's a kremlin spokesman said before the trump zelenskyy

meeting this past friday that the new u.s. foreign policy and i'm quoting, largely coincides with our vision. and after the meeting, as you know, former russian president dmitry medvedev said that zelenskyy, quote, said of zelenskyy, quote, the insulin pig finally got a proper slap down in the oval office. and donald trump is right. the kyiv regime is gambling with world war iii. this idea that the u.s. and russia's vision is now the same is chilling. >> absolutely. and it's been the same under donald trump since 2016. um, i don't frankly understand it. anderson, what is out there in public? even if you assume that donald trump wants to be a strong man, or you assume that he's returning the favor for the 2016 election, or even if he has some sort of business interest in russia that we don't know about, it just doesn't explain why he would kowtow and cater to a dictator

in the face of a democracy that's being attacked and invaded by that dictator. it is anti-democratic. it is anti-american, and it's appalling. and it is. it has to stop. and we need republicans in congress who understand the importance of democracy abroad, who understand how important it is for our own national security, that we don't let china run wild around the world, which is exactly what will happen if we kowtow to russia. they need to stand up and say something to donald trump to get us back on track. >> it is remarkable. i mean, kaitlan collins reporting there that many people in the white house are believing that zelenskyy should just apologize to president trump. um, and that that might make a difference. >> well, the sad reality, anderson, is that it probably will. that's how our foreign policy is being led right now is if you don't say thank you nicely enough, of course, for

nothing that he did. and if you don't apologize, then i'm withholding military aid against a dictatorial aggressor. this is preposterous. it is laughable. it is childish, and it is embarrassing for donald trump. >> congressman goldman, thanks for being with us. appreciate it. i'm joined now by retired general wesley clark, cnn military analyst, former nato supreme allied commander, general clark. i mean, if all military aid to ukraine is paused right now, how long do you think ukrainian forces can hold on? >> hard to say, anderson, but the pause will have probably an immediate effect, because what happens is when, you know, you don't have anything in the pipeline at some point, then you're going to cut immediately what you're sending to the front. so if you're going to send them 500 rounds a day and you know there's nothing back there, you're going to cut it to 100 rounds a day and try to stretch it out. and the trouble is, ukraine's already suffering from severe shortages. there's a big russian offensive on now to

try to cut off the kursk salient and encircle those troops. there's a very active russian effort in the south to to seize the rest of zaporizhzhia. uh, vladimir putin's people have said they want all of these provinces in a peace talk. uh, and so by cutting off, at least pausing this aid. uh, don't know when it's going to restart. there will be an immediate impact on the battlefield. can't do it any other way. >> how much military aid from the u.s. can be offset by the europeans? >> artillery rounds or tanks? um, petroleum, oil and lubricants. uh, some spare parts, but not the gimlet missiles for the himars. uh, and and we don't know really what other sophisticated munitions might be in the way. patriot missiles, perhaps, uh, some air delivered ordnance that could be used by the by the f-16s or the anti-radiation missiles, for

example, that have been given, uh, the europeans don't have those and haven't been providing them. those are from the united states. but even the things that ukraine can get from the europeans, they can't get in the same quantities as if the united states were suddenly to stop supplying. they can't just suddenly double what they're sending. >> does it make sense to you that that the u.s. would stop cyber operations against russia? >> i'm really puzzled by this, but i think the larger strategy, anderson, is, uh, to try to explain to vladimir putin, uh, look, america is not your enemy. uh, please come to the negotiating table. uh, we'll open everything up for you. we we want to be friends. um, and let's don't let ukraine get between us. and so, uh, he's put on the on the bargaining table. he's given up all of his cards. possibility of nato membership, u.s. troop presence. uh, and now, uh, assistance to

ukraine. now putin wants zelenskyy out of there. so, uh, a lot of this is designed to undercut zelenskyy's support in the united states. and with those republican congressmen who would say, look, if you get rid of zelenskyy right now in the middle of a war, in the middle of these negotiations, is chaos. anderson, we've seen this movie before. in 1963, we got rid of the south vietnamese president. we thought he wasn't competent. people didn't like him. he might be corrupt. his brother in law was a bad guy. his wife had too much makeup. uh, and he was taken out in a cia sponsored coup and chaos followed him in case. also, we cut off assistance to south vietnam after we promised that assistance. and it fell. i was a captain in the army command and general staff college. the

general called us together. 1200 of us. we'd been in vietnam. we'd fought, we bled. we'd lost friends there. and, um. he said saigon has fallen. i mean, we stood and cried. you can only imagine the impact if ukraine cut off from u.s. assistance. uh, put on the platter for vladimir putin. collapses in the middle of these talks or trying to get these talks started. and there's a wave of refugees. and what russia is going to do to these people that stay behind. u.s. credibility is on the line here. it's not just u.s. security. it's the value of the dollar. it's u.s. ability to enter into any contracts anywhere. you can't treat people this way. so i hope president zelenskyy will quickly apologize. i hope the trump administration will realize this is a bridge too far. and understand if you want negotiations to be successful with putin, he's going to be he's going to be very, very

tough. yeah. you've got to have some cards to play. >> general clark, i appreciate your time. >> nato membership on the table. >> general clark, thank you. more on this breaking news. ahead, i'm going to talk about the pause in u.s. military aid to ukraine. we've seen as fareed zakaria. plus, the fate of these boxes of aid for hundreds of thousands of malnourished kids around the world. a special report ahead on that. also, more breaking news. the head of the fbi's top field office is out. we'll tell you what he told his colleagues ahead. >> twitter. breaking the bird premieres sunday at ten on cnn. >> at wayfair. we get pretty excited about furniture around here. it's not a patio. it's a patio. i love those chairs. >> shed tastic. let's go, let's go. >> this rocks. >> my queen. >> yeah! >> oh, i'm at the bed. >> girl, you nailed it. >> no, this set is just a couple

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roughly ten minute oval office debate with zelenskyy. today, president trump said in a news conference that zelenskyy had not been appreciative even as her european allies rallied to support zelenskyy in ukraine. fareed zakaria joins us now. so, fred, i mean, kaitlan collins made it crystal clear this would not be happening if president zelenskyy had not stood up for himself or if he had apologized more or thanked been thankful more. what's your reaction to this pause? >> it is a historic mistake, and it is sad that the united states would change its policy on the most important geopolitical event going on right now, the greatest land war in europe since world war ii, because president trump felt he wasn't treated nicely. i mean, this feels to me like taking personal diplomacy to an absurd level. look, i don't think zelenskyy handled it perfectly either. i think that, you know, he took vice president vance's bait. he

shouldn't have. he got too emotional. he shouldn't. he should have just left. let all that stuff be discussed privately. but you're talking about hundreds of thousands of ukrainian soldiers on the on the battlefield who are now going to experience death and destruction because president trump felt he didn't get a nice. thank you. i mean, it just seems grotesque. >> if you were vladimir putin tonight. this, i assume, is the best news possible. >> well, the russians have been celebrating now for a week or two because they have seen a complete reversal of american policy and not just a complete reversal of american strategy, but even of american kind of morality, where we are now openly siding with russia. we're talking about the ways in which ukraine is the problem. you know, president trump has said that ukraine started the war.

the zelenskyy is a dictator. alex. gabuev told bianna golodryga on my show, uh, this is like easter, hanukkah. uh, christmas and putin's birthday all taking place in one day. i mean, that really, for the russians, this is like a dream come true. and it's important to remember russia is a, you know, the united states is principal geopolitical adversary right now. i know that china poses a larger threat in the longer term. but right now, if you look on the ground, what the russians have done, they have been against the united states interests in the middle east. they have been against the united states and afghanistan. there was good reporting that the russians were paying, uh, afghan mercenaries to kill american soldiers. they have been against american interests in europe. uh, you know, this is a geopolitical adversary that is now celebrating that the united states seems to have essentially

surrendered and come over to their side. >> and the idea that the u.s. has stopped cyber operations. did that surprise you? >> well, it's all of a piece. um, and, you know, i assume the reason that that happened is because for trump, everything is personal. and the cyber operations probably reminds him in some way of the allegations of russian interference in the in the elections, which was all done through intelligence. uh, you know, through the internet and cyber means. but it's important again, to remember that the russians have been attacking american infrastructure. uh, they've been trying to figure out ways where they can penetrate and shut down american power plants. they've been trying to go into the nuclear facilities through cyber attacks. so not responding is incredibly dangerous, because even if they don't get through, they learn a lot. and the countermeasures we had in place

always made it so that they couldn't learn that much. all this is going to have cumulative costs even if they don't show up today or tomorrow. >> fareed zakaria, thanks very much. we have more breaking news, another shakeup in the leadership, the nation's premier law enforcement agency, the head of the fbi's largest field office is out. james dennehy is his name. the assistant director in charge of the fbi's new york division says he's been forced to retire with no explanation. writing to his colleagues today, he said late friday i was informed that i needed to put my retirement papers in today, which i just did. i was not given a reason for this decision. he went on to say, as i leave today, i have an immense feeling of pride to have represented an office of professionals who will always do the right thing for the right reasons, who will always seek the truth while upholding the rule of law, who will always follow the facts no matter where they lead, and be unapologetic about it? last month, you may remember dennehy sent a message of support to rally his workforce amid reports of potential mass firings in the fbi. joining us is cnn chief law enforcement and intelligence

analyst john miller. um, how big a deal is this? >> it's very significant. and it'll it'll bring shockwaves across the fbi. and it's not alone as an event. jim dennehy was told on friday, put your papers in on monday and you know, and be out. um, that was after he wrote a letter to the staff that was worried about agents and analysts who were going to be fired because they worked on january 6th cases. and he basically said, i was a marine. i dug a foxhole. that's how i survived. you know, a big gun battle. and now it's time to dig in. i think writing that letter to the staff, which was a worried staff, a nervous staff, i even say a frightened staff of agents and analysts worried about whether they were going to be fired, whether their careers were were derailed, was his way of saying, be not afraid. this is the tone i'm setting. we're going to go forward. i think he knew when he wrote that letter that it was going to cost him.

and today it did. >> why is the fbi, the new york office? why is that so important? >> well, the new york office next to fbi headquarters is the largest fbi outpost conducting investigations. but it is a center for counterintelligence, spies, espionage, counterterrorism, more terrorist attacks plotted against new york and stopped by the new york office in the nypd and the jttf than any other place in the country. cyber. the financial community, the organized crime. there is no other place like new york, which is the reason that it's not a special agent in charge. it's an actual assistant director of the fbi who is placed in charge of the new york office. um, but they've moved on new york. they have moved on. the agent in charge of miami. they've moved on. the agent in charge of las vegas. all of these things without explanation. put your papers in and and move out, as well as people in headquarters. but, anderson, this is the precursor. you know, the fbi is braced for stephen miller at the white

house as deputy chief of staff for policy to emil bove the deputy attorney general. who's who's still operating, uh, basically on miller's instructions to clean house of anybody who was involved in these cases. um, so boldly that they even wrote that into the executive order. >> pam bondi the the attorney general, she recently accused the fbi in new york office of withholding information about, uh, jeffrey epstein. i don't know how she i mean, she was promoting this release of documents that turned out to be really documents that had already been released. i don't know why she didn't know that in advance. once the reaction to it kind of blew back on her, she suddenly said, oh, well, it's the fbi. i now learned they've been withholding stuff. >> right. and two weeks ago, she said, you know, it's all on my desk. >> she saw it the night before. she was like, you're going to be surprised, you know, by it. >> and so i think you got two things going on here. one, in right wing blogger circles, they were saying, you know, where's the client list? where's the

real stuff? and i think the material is the material. then they started putting out rumors about, you know, people in new york shredding documents. um, there's a lot of this kind of one off from qanon stuff going on out there. but as far as, as far as i can tell, whatever was supposed to be released was turned over to the department of justice. but you know what? it gives them an excuse to attach to this. that fits into the dogma and the rumor mill and the rest. >> john miller, thanks very much. next targeted by doge. what's happening to crucial. usaid items that help malnourished kids in africa. a special report on that ahead. also, as elon musk sends another email to federal workers requesting they keep replying with what they did last week, i'll talk it over with david fahrenthold of the new york times. >> when emergency strikes, first responders are the first ones in. but on outdated networks, the crucial technology they depend on is limited. that's why

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relief. absolutely free. text l-o-v-e to 321321 today. >> the presidential address to congress tomorrow at eight on cnn. >> of all the changes wrought by elon musk and his doge team in the early weeks of the trump presidency, perhaps no part of the government has been hit

harder so far than usaid. thousands of employees placed on leave, many recalled from overseas assignments, all in the name of efficiency. the government also canceled contracts with many companies, helping usaid perform life saving work. this is the story of one such company and the people they were helping to serve. last week, 400,000 boxes of a life saving food product for severely malnourished kids were ready to be shipped out from mana nutrition warehouse in georgia. >> they're headed to. >> south sudan, to nigeria. this one is headed to. democratic republic of congo. they're headed all over africa. the boxes in this warehouse alone could potentially save the life of 400,000 children. >> but on wednesday, mark moore, mana ceo and co-founder, was told by email that his contracts with usaid were canceled. >> and it just said, these these

are contracts are canceled for convenience, which means the u.s. government has decided they don't exist. they're done. >> the boxes are filled with packets of what's called ready to use therapeutic food rutf for short. it's made with peanut butter, powdered milk, sugar and vitamins. it's easy to store, easy to use, and revolutionary. it can bring severely malnourished kids back from the brink of death. i first learned about this life saving product 20 years ago. countries at risk for starvation while reporting on a hunger crisis in niger. back then, it was made by just one french company who called their version plumpy'nut. i did a story about it in 2007 for cbs's 60 minutes. >> i'm her. >> she's already lost four children to malnutrition. now her six month old twins, hassana and hussein, are malnourished,

and she's worried they might die, too. so she's been coming here for plumpy'nut. her son is six months old, but weighs 7 pounds. that's really what a newborn should weigh. >> right? >> in the. past week. >> since she started. >> plumpy'nut. >> she's gained. >> a pound. >> so she's. >> gained 15%. >> that's amazing. >> yeah. >> while she waited, sophia asked me to hold one of her twins. >> hey. >> but little hussaina didn't seem to think that was such a good idea. >> i. >> children are. weighed and measured at the distribution sites. they're also examined to make sure they don't have any serious infections. malnutrition destroys a child's immune system, so they're more susceptible to diseases and less capable of recovering from them. >> often these kids aren't even hungry. it's the opposite. they are anorexic because of the deficiencies they have. they don't. they lose their appetite. >> that's what happened to

mansoor and maroufi. mizzou less than a year old. they'd stopped eating and become listless and weak. so weak that when their mothers brought them to get plumpy'nut, the nurse put them in a van and sent them straight to the hospital. three days later, however, they were smacking their lips on plumpy'nut almost ready to go home. have you seen kids who were on the brink of death brought back by plumpy'nut? >> oh yeah. for sure. again and again and again and again. >> but not always. sometimes parents wait too long before bringing their child to doctors. we found rasheeda mamadou in intensive care, barely clinging to life. >> her eyes are open. >> and she's responding. >> looks little cries to touch. but she's not. she's not awake. she's just another sign that her her heart is not able to pump enough blood. >> and what's that on her skin. >> under her children often have skin lesions. >> so her skin is literally peeling away. >> that's one of the consequences of malnutrition. >> how serious is she? i mean,

how serious is her condition? >> very. >> just two hours later, rasheeda's little heart stopped beating. she was just 19 months old. >> she died of severe acute malnutrition. tion >> and you see that every day. >> every day. >> mana nutrition began making their version of it in 2010. every ingredient mana uses comes from american farms and companies. and with 130 workers, they're one of the biggest employers in this very republican county, which donald trump won in each of the last three elections. >> presently, about 95% of our business is usaid. so it's it's basically all of it. >> because the boxes are required to have usaid from the american people printed on them. legally, they can't be used for anything else. meaning the 60 million individual packets of life saving food in this warehouse would go to waste. >> 400,000 boxes would just sit

here or, you know, god forbid, be destroyed. the idea that we're not going to feed kids who are dying, just to me, seems so un-american that i guess i'm in disbelief that will happen. >> mark moore talked with cnn's mj lee last wednesday, and her reporting got the attention of elon musk, who posted this on x yesterday at 12:26 a.m. we will investigate whether this is real or not and fix it if it is. late last night, moore received another email from usaid. it said, please resume your normal work duties. for now, it seems their contract has been reinstated. but it turns out the shipping company mana nutrition uses has not had their contract reinstated by usaid. so for now, all that life saving food is still sitting in a warehouse in georgia, and it's unclear who canceled manna's contract and why they did. and it's equally

unclear why it was suddenly reinstated and who made that decision as well. we reached out to the state department, which now oversees usaid, and have yet to hear back. i'm joined now by the new york times, david fahrenthold, who has been diligently following doge and the cuts it's making with some remarkable reporting. david, i want to talk about your new reporting in a moment. but in something like this, with this company, how are these decisions like a contract is just canceled? who do you know who's making this? is there? i mean, does anybody look at actually what these companies are doing or it's just kind of crossing things off a ledger? >> well, there seems to be two versions. >> of that. one is the official version, which elon musk talked about today, which is this is just a review. >> of these contracts where there's exceptions for life saving aid. >> we're going. >> through these carefully. >> and allowing the good ones to go through. >> and then there's. >> the. >> reality, which is that basically everything usaid does has been shut down. i mean, you recall. >> elon musk. >> saying he wanted. >> to feed the whole agency. >> into a wood chipper.

>> so i think effectively, almost nothing is. >> happening at usaid. >> no matter what marco rubio or elon. >> musk say. >> all right, david, stay with us. i want to talk about some of your new reporting when we come back. elon musk has touted billions of savings from doge cuts. some of those claims are getting deleted from doj's website, largely because of david's reporting pointing out inaccuracies and things just aren't true. we'll be right back. >> hi. hi. chocolate fundraiser. chocolate. >> with a chase mobile app. >> things move a little more smoothly. >> champion. i'm the champion. i'm number one. >> deposit checks easily and send money quickly. >> oh! >> i'm the champion. >> that's convenience. >> from chase. >> make more of what's yours. >> introducing new a. >> roxon gel. the first fda cleared ed treatment available

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thinking. partnering to unlock new ideas to create new legacies, to transform a company industry economy generation. because grit and vision working in lockstep puts you on the path to your full potential. old school grit, new world ideas, morgan stanley. >> welcome back. we're talking with the new york times, david fahrenthold, who shares a byline on this new story. the headline struggling with errors doge deletes billions more from list of savings. the subheadline reads for the second time in a week, elon musk's government overhaul effort updated its wall of receipts to remove mistakes that inflated its success. you and your colleagues have done such incredible reporting there, showing many of the mistakes and false numbers that this doge team have posted on their so-called wall of receipts, overstating savings, claiming an $8 billion savings instead of $8 billion. your latest reporting

involves contracts. doge was claiming credit for cutting, but some were actually canceled long before trump's first term even began, as far back as 2005. can you walk us through some of what you learned? >> yeah, what we're talking about is what doge calls its wall. >> of receipts. >> basically. >> it's a list of contracts that it's claiming credit for having cut and the savings it says it achieved by cutting them. it's really. >> the only place where they show their work. >> at all. >> the only time. >> they ever show us how they. >> get to. >> the numbers they claim for the savings. >> so you can. >> go down this list and you can see the details of these contracts. and you said in two of the cases they were canceled, counting as canceled, two contracts that actually just ended on their own when george w. bush was president from 2005 and 2006. and each of those contracts, they claimed a $53 million savings now. so that's the kind of error we're finding. it's not rocket science. you could click literally on a link and see that this was 20 years old. >> now is that i mean, if you can find that out, how long did it take you to find that out? is it a simple mistake on their part, or is it just is it

deceptive? >> well, what it is, is part of a pattern, right? we're looking at these. this is, i said, the one place where you can see doge show its work. and we're looking in there to see. are they competent? do they know what they're doing when they're looking at government contracts, which again, that's the job they're out there to do, is to change the government, to overhaul it, to make it efficient. do they understand the government itself and how it works and the errors we're finding them making? i mean, you mentioned some of them confusing millions with billions triple counting, the same contract, counting contracts as canceled that had actually been canceled long before. those aren't like difficult things to spot. and it speaks to sort of a carelessness or just a lack of familiarity with the government that they're now basically in charge of. >> and has there been any explanation from the white house or doge as to why they got this stuff so wrong? >> the barest of explanations, what they've said is, well, these numbers came from the agencies themselves. federal agencies sent us these numbers. but again, like doge is supposed to be in charge here. and the errors they're making seems like they didn't look at these

things at all or think about them. you mentioned one earlier where they confused billions with millions. that's not a mistake that anyone should have made, because what they said was that i.c.e. immigration and customs enforcement had saved $8 billion by cutting one contract. well, if you think about that for one second, $8 billion is i.c.e .'s entire budget. so how could you ever thought they gave their entire budget to one vendor? it's that kind of mistake that seems like they're not really paying attention. >> and when they i mean, after your reporting, it seems like they just remove the errors. they don't really, you know, hold a press conference and say, oh yeah, we made a mistake on this. here's where we were wrong. this is how we made this mistake. >> no, this is the second time, now that they've just updated the website to delete most of the largest cuts that they claimed. these were. >> the biggest cuts that they were claiming turned out to be false. or late last week, they reported multiple times. >> yeah. last week they cut the top five cuts they were claiming. just last night they cut five of the top seven cuts they were claiming. so these aren't little things with a few

dollars. these are billions and billions of dollars that just vanish off their website and again, with no explanation. >> and yet they are claiming to be incredibly transparent at every turn. i mean, they're saying that they are the most transparent. >> yes. so what they've done is they've claimed this really big number. they say now they've saved $105 billion, but only a little bit of that is sort of itemized and detailed. that's the part that i've been looking at. about $10 billion is they say, okay, here are the receipts. here's what we've cut. and again, that's the only place we can really see if they know what they're doing. and when you look at that, you find these huge problems which then they yeah, they just delete to the point that the amount of savings they're counting from the contracts being canceled has actually shrunk from 16 billion to 9 billion just in the last couple of weeks. >> is it clear to you how they're making decisions about what to cut? i mean, do they know what the details of these contracts are? or is it anything that smells like di they cut or do you know the criteria?

>> no. there are things in there that that are the result of the trump executive orders against di. there's a lot of usaid contracts. and in some cases you can see, yes, these were cuts that were made for political reasons, you know, for other parts of the president's agenda that they're counting as doge cuts. but other ones, it seems like agencies sent them in. hey, here's a really big cut we made that was bogus. it was. the savings either didn't exist or they were a lot smaller than the agency claimed. and doge seems to have passed that on with either without noticing or without trying to notice. >> interesting. david fahrenthold just remarkable work. thank you. appreciate it. thank you. coming up next, another update on a january 6th offender. this one was fatally shot during a traffic stop just days after being pardoned by president trump. the body camera video of the shooting has now been released and will show you what happened. >> to remind you that 60% of sales on amazon come from independent sellers. tracy from lilies of charleston will watch 60 contestants eat 60 hot wings, all covered in lily's hot

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than $20. go to deal.com and see how much you can save. >> all there is with anderson cooper. listen, wherever you get your podcasts. >> we've been keeping track of what's happened to some of the january 6th rioters who were pardoned by president trump. and tonight, a sad update on a man

named matthew huddle. in 2023, huddle was sentenced to six months in custody after pleading guilty to entering the u.s. capitol. he traveled with his uncle to washington, d.c., that day to attend the rally and was recorded on video inside the capitol building for about 16 minutes. just days after being pardoned by president trump, huddle was pulled over by an indiana sheriff for speeding the body camera footage. what happened next has now been released, and we're going to play it for you in a moment, or at least some of the key moments from it. the traffic stop began. ordinarily enough, the deputy informed huddle that he was pulled over for driving 15mph over the speed limit. huddle quickly volunteered that he was a january 6th defendant. >> were you coming from today? church in my mom's cemetery. okay, okay. i just want to let you know that, um, i'm a january 6th, uh, defendant. what do you mean? i stormed the capitol. i went in on my pardon. really? yeah. and i'm. i can't really afford to get in any trouble right now. >> okay.

>> i understand, okay, i understand. i am driving without a license right now. >> huddle then went on to explain that he had just moved to indiana from idaho and mentioned pending traffic violations. so the deputy had some follow up questions. >> well, let me see your license here. how many times have you been caught driving without a license? um. in my life? no. just recently. like, how many have you been caught with a suspended driver's license before? yeah, but it hasn't been for years, a long time. okay. all right, matt, hang tight for me, okay? and i'll get back with you. all right. >> well, the deputy ran huddle's license and registration and then came back and asked him to get out of his vehicle. now, what you're about to see is when things turn deadly. the deputy informed huddle he was under arrest. huddle turned and then ran back into the car shouting, quote, i'm shooting myself. we're going to let this whole exchange play out in real time. we do want to warn you, it is disturbing.

>> okay, so today you're getting off with a verbal warning for the speed. however, your habitual traffic violator i know. which means that you are at a felony status for driving while suspended. so today you are going to come with me. i can't, i can't. you're going to have to. okay? you're going to come with me today, all right? i can't go to jail for this, sir. you're going to have to come. can i get a ride? no. are you sure this is a violate my. just listen to me, okay? number one, it's a felony offense. there's no there's no leeway with felonies in the state of indiana. now, maybe if it was a misdemeanor offense, i could work something out with you. but it's not a misdemeanor. it's a felony offense. okay, so that's how i. that's why i can't work with you today with it. okay? i understand your circumstances, but you understand that you can't drive. okay? so you're driving has resulted into this situation. okay. now, what i'm going to do, all right, is i'm going to put your information

right here for a second. i want you to turn around, put your hands on. don't you do it, buddy. >> no no no no no, i'm. >> shooting myself. >> no no no no no. >> oh, we're going to show you the exchange again. this time from the deputy's dash cam. we want to warn viewers it's difficult to watch. it was found a loaded nine millimeter handgun in the vehicle. and prosecutors said that the deputy fired on huddle after he, quote, reached in a manner consistent with retrieving a weapon and was, quote, legally justified in using deadly force to defend himself. the deputy will not face charges in the fatal shooting. a quick programing note president trump heads to capitol hill tomorrow night to address a joint session of congress. he's going to share his priorities for the year

ahead and what hev