guess it was night before last. the next day there was going to be an opinion that was going to make him very unhappy. and that's exactly what happened. you kind of, you know, they were taking in the thank yous, but i think that we're seeing what might be a solid five person majority that may stand against many of the things that are going to make donald trump unhappy. >> poker faces. indeed, after what actually transpired, judge jeff schwartz, thank you for joining. >> nice to be with you. >> thank you. nice to see you. thank you all for watching. anderson cooper 360 is next. >> tonight on 360. what caused this

>> a beach in orlando all halted. also tonight the president in retreat. not once but twice today on two key initiatives. what is the future for his tariffs? after markets tanked again? and what is the future for elon musk? after the president issued new guidance on who oversees federal job cuts? good evening, john berman here in for anderson and the breaking news, a huge spacex starship exploded minutes after launch from the spacex facility in south texas. this is the view of that explosion from the caribbean island of turks and caicos. it left orange and white streaks in the sky. fortunately, this was an uncrewed mission. however, the faa halted all flights into at least four major florida airports for several hours. that halt was scheduled to end just a few minutes ago. this was the eighth such test flight of the starship megarocket system. the previous test flight also crashed. we're going to have more on all of this a little bit later in the broadcast. also today we witnessed a rarity in american

politics not just a backpedal, but a double backpedal in the oval office. not one, but two backflips to mix metaphors on two of the things president trump seems to love the most tariffs. and elon musk first on tariffs. for the second day in a row, he blinked on 25% tariffs on canada and mexico. yesterday's exemption for u.s. automakers was extended to all goods from mexico and canada that comply with the trade agreement the president signed with the two countries during his first term. this did not appease the markets, which tanked again, but not because of tariffs. according to the president mr. president, what are you making of the market sell off this week? >> i think it's just i think it's globalist that see how rich our country is going to be. and they don't like. it. >> globalists now unclear what that means, but what investors, global or otherwise, clearly do not like is the uncertainty and the incoherence of the last few days. case in point, the president said this is just a

pause on tariffs. he also said tariffs for steel and aluminum are still on for next week. so when april 2nd comes around and these pauses are due to expire, what happens then? >> did you consider the same sort of exemption or pause for the auto tariffs you're talking about next month? >> we're not looking at that now. no, we're not looking at that. no. >> so we're not looking at that as not exactly a no. and it's not a yes. which is why the markets which like firm guidance and not the yo yo movements of the past few days, seem to be so angry. still, the president was adamant that this is all necessary. >> this is something that we have to do. there will always be a little short term interruption. i don't think it's going to be big. our farmers are going to be very happy. and again, they'll be disruption. >> and this was the second time this week, he said on camera there could be a disruption. the first was in his address to congress. that is not how he once painted tariffs. even just a few weeks ago. it was even just a few weeks ago. it was

always about the money america was going to make from them. >> we will tariff and tax foreign countries to enrich our citizens. the tariffs are necessary because we've been treated very unfairly by many, many countries, including our friends. the tariffs are going to make us very rich and very strong. the tariffs are going to make our country rich. they're going to be a rich, rich country very soon. tariffs are going to make it rich. if they don't make their product in america then very simply they should have to pay a tariff which will bring in trillions of dollars. the tariff income, which is really it's already turned out to be amazing, actually. >> so tariffs that was the first backpedal today. the second came with elon musk. and it came on a day where new data showed a 103% jump in job cuts last month, one of the worst months since covid. a lot of it fueled by the jobs musk is slashing, but also just

the dust clouds he's creating last night. members of congress told him they want a say in this, and maybe that he should slow down. today, the president met with musk during a closed door meeting with his cabinet. and in a way, he layered him with the cabinet. >> so i had a meeting and i said, i want the cabinet members go first. keep all the people you want, everybody that you need. if they can cut, it's better. and if they don't cut, then elon will do the cutting. >> the structure of doge has always been a bit murky. the white house and even the president can't keep a consistent message on who runs it. the president told congress it is musk. his lawyers tell judges something different. but clearly the president seems to be suggesting, if not fewer cuts, at least more deliberate and more input from cabinet secretaries, something he put in a social media post this afternoon. quote, they can be very precise as to who will remain and who will go. we say the scalpel rather than the

hatchet. a scalpel rather than a hatchet. an interesting metaphor that the cutting implements keep getting smaller. after all, it was musk who once tweeted, quote, we spent the weekend feeding usaid into the woodchipper. a scalpel is no wood chipper, nor is it this far. >> this is the chainsaw for bureaucracy chainsaw. >> all right, let's start the night with anchor and chief. white house correspondent kaitlan collins. why is elon musk even though the president is quick to praise him now, taking what looks to be a back seat to cabinet secretaries. >> it seems to really be a clarification of who has the final say and ultimately holds the power here, because this has been something that is not just prompted frustration from americans, that we've seen them vent to their lawmakers about. it's also created some confusion within the cabinet who

are hearing one thing or seeing. elon musk tweet about one thing and then raising the question of what actually is happening here and whether they do have the final say when it comes to staffing, which has been the number one thing that elon musk has gone after, which is reducing the size of the federal workforce. but we've seen as when those emails have gone out, essentially instructing federal workers to list what they did that week, that that these cabinet secretaries were saying, well, we should have the final say over whether or not someone's going to be fired for not responding to that. and so all of that is what culminated in the meeting today. you can see here this is the exact same room they met in today. this is a week ago when elon musk was really holding court during president trump's first cabinet meeting. today, there were not cameras or press inside the room in about five or so, six cabinet secretaries were missing from that meeting because they were out of town. but it was during that that president trump made clear to them in front of elon musk that, yes, he is making these recommendations, but ultimately they are the ones who have the final say over who is staffing their respective agencies. they're the ones who have been senate confirmed. they are the ones who are making

these decisions about what personnel is needed and where for what programs. the other thing, though, though, john, that i'll point out, is later on in the oval office, when president trump was asked about this, he said that that elon musk is still going to be making recommendations. and if they feel that the cuts at certain agencies have not been sufficient, then musk will still be able to cut staffers from that agency. and so that could, you know, we could see problems for that in the future. it still raises questions of what this is going to look like. but really, it seemed to be about defining who has what power during that 90 minute meeting that happened today. >> yeah, it really does seem like a shift, if not a backpedal. and that was just one today. the other one, which was big, was on tariffs to canada and mexico the second time in two days. he kind of retreated. what was it. was it that, you know, the continuing swings in the stock market? >> the president said that the stock market did not play a factor in his decision, but we've seen obviously, how much he takes the stock market into account, john. i mean, anyone who's around him also will acknowledge that and and knows

that. and so really the question here, though, has been the the confusion that has been coming even from the president's own top aides, because obviously they have to go with tariffs or make the argument for them. and we've heard them say they were not going to be any pauses or any exceptions or argue against that. and then here we are seeing yesterday exceptions for the big three automakers for at least another month. and then today, a pause on largely all of the tariffs that are on in place against canada and mexico and that fall under that trilateral agreement that trump negotiated during his first term for at least another month. now that's only one month. it raises questions about what happens when all of those tariffs are set to go into effect on april 2nd, and whether or not there will be any exemptions for that. the white house told me yesterday no exemptions for those tariffs. but i think as we've seen over the last 72 hours, we've seen pauses and exceptions go into place. and so there's just creating a lot of uncertainty in the stock market. i mean, you saw how yesterday it reacted very quickly to the changes for those automakers today, not as much of a reaction

because it's still the uncertainty that has been freshly injected into this over what is going to happen next and who is affected actually by these tariffs. >> the market seemed to be saying in a way, we're not sure we believe you right now. show us more. all right, caitlin, thank you very much. of course, everyone can see caitlin on the source. next hour i'm joined now by democratic senator lisa blunt rochester of delaware. she serves on the senate commerce committee, among others. senator, thanks so much for being with us. on elon musk in his efforts. if this is, in fact, pumping the brakes a bit from the president, what do you think prompted it? >> well, you know, first of all, let's start with the premise that any president can have a vision. but this vision, instead of being responsible, has been reckless, whether it is the, you know, whether it's the federal employees who keep us safe and healthy, who are being with a chainsaw, whether it's a chainsaw, a wood chipper, a scalpel, whatever tool they want

to use. as the former secretary of labor in delaware and a person who served as the head of state personnel, this is not workforce planning. this is not how you do things. it is really just chaos, confusion and cruelty. and then today, with the tariffs, we are seeing the impact of the tariffs on the american people as well. i think, though, bottom line, i think they're starting to hear from our constituents like we are members in the senate. and that's why i think they spoke to the president and said, you know, we have the responsibility when for changing over agencies. and we are the legal. you know, we have the power of the purse. and elon musk is not an elected official, and he's making decisions that are having real world ramifications and pain for american families. >> you mentioned the chainsaw. we just showed the picture of elon musk with the chainsaw going from the chainsaw to what president trump now says is a scalpel. how much of a change do

you expect that will mean? >> you know, i think that it remains to be seen. i mean, just today we explained about the tariffs and how it's been sort of whiplash back and forth. and we know that these tariffs are really taxes on american families. i mean, the bottom line is it's estimated that around 1600 to $2000 will be in increased costs for families over the course of the of a year. and while there are members in the president's cabinet who think that, you know, people are buying cheap goods and, well, for the american people, they are saying, mr. president, you told us on day one you'd bring down costs, and instead we are seeing consumer confidence down. we are seeing consumer spending down. and so i think there again, i think they're feeling it. but it remains to be seen if mr. musk will maybe be more behind closed doors and not as visible

about it. but we will see as we go into the next into the next few weeks, if things keep flip flopping back and forth. >> you mentioned the tariffs, and of course, you sit on the the committee on commerce, science and transportation. you're from delaware, you know, big business. what does the constant shifting, what kind of a message do you think that sends? first he says the tariffs are coming. no exceptions. then there are some exceptions. now there are even more exceptions. now a total pause. what's the message? >> well, you know, the message is twofold. one is, you know, to businesses they like stability. they need stability. this is why you're seeing all the volatility in the markets. you know, the same is true for the american consumer. what it says is that at a time when people are saying we need our egg prices down, we need to make sure that we have housing affordability. we're going to do things that actually increase the cost of goods. and so even that $1,600 i referenced, or $2,000 for an american family, that could be a

few months rent. that could be the the prescription drug costs that they, that they need to to pay. and so i think what we want to see is we want to see real, real efforts rooted in reality, not in a golden vision. we need to root these things in reality and fight for the american people. >> and very quickly, you also said on the committee that has oversight over the education department, which still exists today, though president trump has sent some indication that he wants to more or less gut it. what's your reaction to that? >> well, you know, i have the opportunity now as a senator to to actually meet with the nominees before their hearings. and i sat down with then prospective secretary mcmahon. and i had a list of questions. and i said, sometimes people politicize this department that is so important to our country. you know, they say it should be cut, it should be increased. and she said, oh, no, we're going to abolish it. and for me, i

thought about the millions of children in our country, whether you are a child, you are the parent of a child with a disability, whether you have a child who is being bullied or i thought about all of the pell grant recipients, the the young folks trying to go to college and the fact that if they are serious about education, then you don't break up the department and put this part in hhs and this part in department of justice, you prioritize children, you prioritize educators, you prioritize parents. and so we will see they've got to bring that proposal to us because we are the congress. we are the ones that make the laws. >> senator lisa blunt rochester from delaware. we appreciate your time tonight. thanks so much for being with us. thank you. perspective now from our chief national correspondent, john king, and from the washington post, jeffrey stein, who has written extensively on elon musk and his efforts. and, john, i keep to keep to keep harping on the metaphor, but it's an apt one, and i don't feel it's completely coincidental. but the chainsaw

in the woodchipper from elon musk is now all of a sudden a scalpel. that's a big change, and it's a big change in the type of rhetoric that we've heard from the president. what do you think it is that he's hearing that prompted this? >> i think it's quite obvious, john, the laws of politics often track the laws of physics, and the laws of physics and politics should wind at your back. you go that way, you advance your agenda. you say, i have the force behind me. let's do what i want to do. when you have headwinds, you go backwards. you go that way. and that's what the president has right now. he's hearing it from members of congress about elon musk. he's hearing it from some of his own cabinet secretaries, that he's coming into my department and messing with my business. and it's causing me problems because he's firing people that i need somebody gone and i need them at their desk. so the president is hearing it. republicans in congress are being pretty quiet right now. but when you take what they're hearing about musk and then what they're hearing from the business community and their farmers and others about the tariffs, you know, the president in his speech blamed joe biden a lot. the president today blamed globalists for the markets. republicans in congress with

narrow majorities in both chambers, a tiny, tiny majority in the house are worried voters in two years will blame them. and they're sending that message to the white house very early in the trump term. >> jeff, you know, you've got terrific reporting on elon musk and all of his efforts here. how much of a change do you expect from what was announced today? >> yeah, well, thanks for the kind words. and i just want to emphasize that while everything john is saying is completely correct, that musk seems to have been dealt a bit of a blow in the white house today, we know that musk is not just dependent. i think this is a really crucial point, is not just dependent on cabinet secretaries with independent power bases confirmed by the senate to execute his agenda. and what i mean by that is that doge has very successfully gotten musk allies. musk deputies installed at crucial sort of nodes of power within the government, whether that's the social security administration, where an ally of musk is currently the acting commissioner, the general services administration, which is in charge of all federal buildings, the office of

personnel management. i could go on and on, because this is the sort of the hr department for the government. musk has people throughout the government that are kind of his people. and while, you know, it might be useful for trump to say, you know, secretary hegseth secretary rubio, you don't have to do everything he says he has allies who can do quite a lot on their own. and just, you know, further to emphasize the point that musk might have a lot of runway left, a lot of the trump, you know, cabinet appointees agree with musk, substantive changes to the government. so they are on board with a lot of the things he wants to do. they might want more consultation. they might want more sort of ability to recommend things. but but there is, i think, still very a good reason to believe that we're in the very early innings of doge. >> is a great point. we're going to have to see what happens the next few days and what we see publicly the next few days. john, you've got a report that we're going to show in just a few minutes from canada on the discussion over tariffs there. but here in washington, again, just just a very blatant retreat

from president trump on what was a signature issue during the campaign and a signature issue during the first few weeks. and these were the tariffs to canada and mexico. i just wonder what you think is driving this. is this the stock markets? are these the headwinds you're talking about? how concerned is this white house about the economic message out there? >> well, i would say at the top and just like the previous conversation, trump is saying things about elon musk because of the political head incoming, as was just noted. let's see what he actually does if he actually does it, because he says things a lot. and you see if the power actually shifts, but he's getting incoming. same on tariffs. he's just getting a he

>> make up your mind. businesses need to plan. and that's what they get. a lot of income from allies in the business community that make up your mind, even if we don't like it, we want to know what it is and we go forward. >> all right. john king and jeffrey stein, again, thank you so much. and we love your reporting. we look forward to talking to you again. john is going to be back with us in just a second in canada to hear why some canadians say president trump is bad for business. and we're going to have more on the breaking news. the explosion of that spacex starship details ahead. >> anderson cooper 360, brought to you by the invitation to lexus sales event. now through march 31st. >> step into a world of thoughtful consideration. everything you need is within reach. get offers on select models at the invitation to lexus sales event. >> good morning with dulcolax.

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>> as we mentioned, the markets did not like president trump's latest policy flip on tariffs. canadians haven't liked his policy much either. our john king recently went to the great white north as part of his all over the map series, to hear their thoughts about the president and his tariffs. >> this is american steel in western canada for custom finishes. one belt is to burn a few notches and drill a few holes, another to weld some angled braces. soon back on a rail car and back across the border for an office project in alaska. it is a partnership that supports 100 jobs here at i industries in surrey, british columbia. this just one piece of nearly $800 billion a year in trade between the united states and canada. now, though, a partnership in peril because of president trump's insistence on new tariffs. >> he wants to show that u.s. is strong. and because i'm bigger than you are, i can bully you

around and this is how i'm going to do it. >> trump paused the tariffs thursday, just two days after imposing them. another about face. yes, he prefers no tariffs. but he says weeks of threats and contradictions from trump make it impossible to plan and are already hurting both economies. >> even with the threat of tariffs, prices have gone through the roof and they've gone higher. so we're seeing right now when we're bidding a job today versus we're bidding it three months ago, our cost has gone up almost 15%. >> british columbia is a living postcard, scenic mountains and gorgeous waters. the importance of trade is everywhere you look. canadian lumber waiting at river's edge. rail cars to carry canadian crude oil crops and more. the bustling pacific rim port of vancouver. >> you watch it for eight hours. you'll see on average, we've got ten ships arriving and ten ships leaving. we did about 160 million tons of cargo last year. 75% of that is those bulk commodities grain, coal, potash,

sulfur and and other agricultural products. outbound. >> peter is the port's ceo. he says shippers who normally plan 6 or 9 months out are now taking things a few weeks at a time because trump is so unpredictable. and he says trump's threats and his tone leave canada no choice but to find new markets, new partners. >> it's been a wake up call, right? it's been a wake up call for canadians that we need to figure out a way to not be as dependent. >> this rift goes beyond what canadians see as trump's bad math. they are furious at his bad manners, his constant insults, calling canada the 51st state and its prime minister governor. >> we've been in this together for a long time. we fought wars together. we went to afghanistan. we did all this stuff together. why? what are you doing here? >> daryl lamb is the brand manager at legacy liquors. yes. this too, is a front in the new trade war. >> there's a yellow rose right there from texas right there. so. >> is it popular? >> it is. >> if this goes into effect, you can't sell this.

>> it'll be off the off the shelf. >> it's gone. >> tito's vodka two, also from texas. >> diagram of a trade war. >> the premier of british columbia says if trump imposes tariffs, he will ban sales of alcohol from states that trump won that also have a republican governor. >> we've gone through this before with the russian invasion of ukraine. we were asked to remove all russian products from our shelves. >> lamb says some customers rushed to stockpile american favorites, but others want all american products off the shelves. so mad at trump. for what he's saying about canada that they're saying, get it out of. >> here 100%. absolutely. i'm just worried about this eternal relationship that we've had for 200 plus years being soured for four. >> vikram vinayak is a short haul truck driver. carrying berries destined for the united states on this run. what are other loads that are pretty typical? >> understory trees, auto parts and produce? sometimes we pick frozen fish. >> how much of your work are

products that you know are going to end up in the united states? >> more than 8,090% of our loads are going to us. >> as many as five runs a day, 40 to 50 hours a week. but tariffs will cut shipments to the united states and cut vinayak's hours. you have a wife and two daughters. >> yes. >> and so what does that mean about planning? thinking maybe we won't make a vacation or maybe we won't buy something. what is it? >> no, no, just planning is nothing. the main thing is how to get out of this. situation by finding another job. >> does that make you mad? you might have to find another job. do you like this job? >> yeah. i love this job. >> one of many jobs now at risk because of a u.s. relationship. trump just shifted into reverse. >> what a great case. john king is with us now. and you got to it there, john. but but how are the people you talk to? how do they feel not just about this trade war, but about the united states in general? >> there's a fundamental shift, john. the business community, it's like, why, mr. president,

this works, this works, this business partnership, this trade relationship works, benefits both countries. but just talking to canadians on the streets, whether it's an uber driver, whether it's the ceo of the steel company, they're all just like, okay, we're not going to take vacations in the united states anymore. we're not going to drive across the border to go to costco anymore like we used to. and we start we need to look for new markets. we're looking for new friends. they think that trump is fundamentally changed what they thought was a nice, neighborly, productive relationship. not anymore. at least not now. >> no, just watch a hockey game. you can tell john king, great to see you. thanks so much. up next, an update on our space x breaking news. a test flight exploded over the skies of the caribbean, leading to flights grounded in and out of some of florida's busiest airports. also, ukrainian president zelenskyy joined an emergency summit of european allies today to try to secure the future of his country. we're going to take you there live. coming up. >> tell us about accepting bribes. >> the stuff he did that was completely legal destroys democracy. i'm still not sure

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combination. download quick hit slots for free and get a 6 million coin bonus. make every day a winning day. >> the situation room with wolf blitzer and pamela brown tomorrow at 10 a.m. on cnn. >> all right, more now on our breaking news. the failed space-x test flight exploding over the skies of the caribbean. you can see it right there. that is. or was the huge starship spacecraft for a time, the faa halted flights into several major florida airports for, quote, falling space debris. let's bring in kristen fisher, cnn's space and defense analyst, and pete muntean, our aviation correspondent. so, kristen, spacex posted on x tonight in part, quote during starship's ascent burn, the vehicle

experienced a rapid, unscheduled disassembly and contact was lost. now, i'm not the expert you are, but an unscheduled disassembly sounds bad. kristen. >> yeah, that's spacex speak for an explosion. john. and what we know is that about eight minutes into this eight test flight for starship and its super heavy booster, there was this rapid, unscheduled disassembly. we started to see some of the engines drop out. and then we heard that there was a loss of signal. and what's really fascinating here, john, is that this explosion follows the almost the exact same signature and pattern as what happened during the previous test flight. flight test seven, which was exactly seven weeks ago today, at almost the exact same point in the mission, about eight minutes into the mission, we saw this explosion. so it's unclear if this was caused by the spacecraft's self-destruct system or if it was caused by the extreme structural loads as

it fell back into the lower atmosphere. but what is clear is that we're seeing very similar debris patterns, john. and, you know, remember, this is the rocket that is supposed to take nasa astronauts back to the moon as part of the artemis program, the first time since the end of the apollo program. two back to back failures of this starship rocket spacecraft. nasa is not going to feel comfortable putting its astronauts on this spaceship anytime soon. >> no, i imagine not. we had to check ourselves. are we looking at video from seven weeks ago, or is this the new stuff? because in some ways it looks exactly the same. pete, we mentioned, we mentioned, pete, that the faa halted some flights in florida because of debris. how is this affecting air travel right now, and will it be an investigation? >> a bit of deja vu. john, when you think back to the january 25th starship seven launch that failed, the ground stops were put in place by the faa here because of falling space debris. you don't hear that very often. miami, fort lauderdale,

hollywood, palm beach and orlando were all on the ground stop list. those have since been canceled, but that's a pretty big swath of airspace of concern because the idea is, and this is a growing concern across all of aviation, that space junk could theoretically fall and hit a commercial flight. it sounds outlandish, but there are more and more private space flights all the time. the faa actually has a response plan in place here. they call this a designated response area. and so what they did was essentially close off all of the airspace going into some of these busiest and biggest airports in florida and kept planes at their destination, also delayed flights, leaving because they simply just did not want to risk some of this debris falling down on an airplane. this is something that has happened before. and the faa did put these ground stops in place back during the january 25th incident. so they have a little bit of practice here. john. >> so, kristen, what do we know about how the faa has handled previous spacex mishaps and how elon musk has reacted to all of that?

>> well, as you might imagine, elon musk has historically tried to hurry the faa along to try to get them to give spacex the green light for their next starship test flight. you know, this most recent one, the flight test seven, it was undergoing a failure and a mishap investigation. and just a few days ago, the faa gave it the green light. there has been tremendous back and forth and a tug of war, if you will, between spacex and the faa, because spacex executives have testified on capitol hill and said, hey, it shouldn't take us, the rocket scientists longer to build the rocket than it does for you, the bureaucrats in washington, to give us the green light to launch these spacecrafts into space and test them. this is what we need to do to keep the united states ahead of china and land astronauts back on the moon. but the fear and the concern is that, of course, by rushing the faa, you have things like this happen. and a lot of questions now are going to be asked, you know, did the faa do a thorough enough

investigation into flight test seven before test flight eight? john. and you know, one more thing. one of the big things that spacex has been working on is improving or redesigning the propulsion system on starship. a lot of questions now surrounding that and how exactly it's been designed. >> yeah i bet. all right. kristin fisher pete muntean, thanks to both of you. coming up, ukrainian president zelenskyy joined a summit of european leaders today and found a much more welcoming audience than he did in the oval office. and the view from the kremlin of that now infamous meeting between zelenskyy and president trump and everything that's happened since is, well, pure joy. we're going to take you to moscow. >> to tell us about accepting bribes. >> the stuff he did that was completely legal destroys democracy. i'm still. >> not sure that you're repentant. i have nothing to hide. if he hadn't been such a, he would have gotten away with it. >> they would abuse her on television.

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>> pronamel clinical enamel strength can help us to keep our enamel for a lifetime. it's backed by science. it is clinically proven to strengthen our teeth. i would recommend this toothpaste to everybody. it's really an amazing product. >> five good things. >> listen wherever. >> you get your podcasts. >> new developments tonight in ukraine's fight to win security guarantees from its european allies. guarantees that the trump white house is so far unwilling to provide. president volodymyr zelenskyy made an in-person appeal to western leaders in brussels. cnn's international diplomatic editor nic robertson is with us now. nic, what did president zelenskyy say about his next move? >> yeah, he said that they were the meetings were good. in fact, he had a lot of gratitude and thanks. and he said that the support that he's getting from the european union, unlike how he felt when he was at the white house a week ago, was something that was important for all ukrainians, he said, because

that makes them understand they're not alone. but he also went on to have a meeting later in the day with the nato secretary general, which he described as substantial. and he also said that he can see a path to peace, a possible proposal he talked about can be one that begins with a ceasefire in the skies over ukraine. so no more missiles, no more drones, an end to conflict and combat on the sea, particularly the black sea. that was an important step. and he said, and that then can lead to a more sort of comprehensive step towards peace. but what is heard from european union leaders today is really substantial. no discussions about the future of ukraine without ukraine involved and the european union saying that ukraine's security is our security as well, and there can be no discussion about things that affect european security without european representation there. so this is all bolstering zelenskyy's position at the moment. and of course, the

central theme here was the agreement to move forward rapidly, accelerating to a massive $850 billion, approximately uplift in defense spending. so, you know, for zelenskyy, i think he came out of today feeling much better than he did a week ago. john. >> well, a week ago we felt pretty lousy. where to plant stand among european leaders in terms of providing ukraine the security guarantees that the trump administration, at least so far, is not willing to give. >> yeah, i think, again, a more and more focus on the fact that they cannot count on u.s. support. the european leaders are feeling that way. they want u.s. support for those security guarantees, but they're beginning to figure out how they can lay it out themselves. you know, the hard ground reality is that president trump inside the white house can make a really rapid decision on what is going to do or not going to do in ukraine. remove security, you know, remove weapons supplies, remove intelligence sharing these sorts of things, and he can make those decisions really

quickly. but to make up those shortfalls, the european union does have to go through a lot of sort of diplomatic political steps, if you will. it's their machinery, it's their mechanism. but it is working at real speed at the moment. and what they're saying is that they're going to spend more on defense, that they do see that they can provide and are trying to figure out ways to provide with their new spend, how to substantially give those security guarantees that are going to protect ukraine, but also protect the european union. the language around all of this is being used by leaders, is very strong, and it's designed to really push populations all across europe to understand that this is an absolutely necessary and historic change in their security standing. so they think they can do more than they've done in the past. >> nic robertson in brussels, thank you so much. there's

reaction from around the world to what the u.s. has said about ukraine, but what's the reaction from inside russia and the kremlin? in a word, it's glee. matthew chance is in moscow. >> configuration for ukraine. >> it's a sign of the times that even the kremlin's old propagandists are rapidly changing their tune. dmitri kiselev is the state mouthpiece who once boasted how russia could reduce america to nuclear ash. >> russia. >> kitai now he's talking about a great troika the u.s., russia and china forming the new structure of the world. and ukraine is where that structure is being forged. trump administration's hard line on kyiv, including the suspension of u.s. military aid, has been greeted with glee in the kremlin, with russian officials now berating europe while flip flopping on washington's

historical role. >> and. colonization. >> all of the tragedies of the world originated in europe, claims the foreign minister, sergei lavrov. colonization, wars. the crimean war, napoleon, world war one, hitler, hitler. if we look at history in retrospect, he says, americans played no instigating or even inflammatory role. it's extraordinary revisionism in extraordinary times. >> you don't have the cards right now with us. you start having cards, playing cards right now you don't. are you playing cards? >> this was the moment that underlined how everything had changed. the humiliation and the oval office of the kremlin's sworn enemy took even russians aback. with kremlin channels struggling to make sense of washington's seismic shift. >> trump. >> trump speaks about peace and those around him talk about ukraine's success, says this reporter on state television. but it looks like he's giving

russia all the cards to achieve success on the battlefield, he adds. >> so, vladimir, thank you very much. >> and it's far more than that. the strange trump putin bond is now threatening western unity. in exchange, all putin has done is offer potentially lucrative business deals. trump's kryptonite, according to one russian commentator. >> donald trump. >> trump is like superman and our president putin has found his weakness, he tells state tv. as soon as trump hears the words rare earth metals, he's ready to accept any terms. he adds. little wonder the kremlin's propagandists are now falling over themselves to praise the united states. they may have changed their tune. but america has, too. well, john, one pro-kremlin commentator summed it up on social media, responding to a call by a ukrainian official for russia to stop its daily shelling of

ukraine. if it really wants to end the war. the commentator responded that the official had, quote, forgot that trump doesn't set any conditions for russia and putin, only for zelenskyy and ukraine. back to you, john. >> snow telling matthew chance from moscow, thank you very much. elon musk's team may dismantle the department of education. we'll talk about the impact that would have with former education secretary arne duncan ahead. >> twitter. that's a great name. >> jack basem naim. >> we were. >> the most social people. >> we invented a whole new thing. >> it was the most emotional company. >> and its. >> founders were neurotic. >> twittering is all the rage. >> billions of dollars. >> later. >> boom. >> twitter was running the public. >> square arrangement because engagement no one could possibly have understood where it was going. >> twitter breaking the bird premieres sunday at ten on cnn. >> oh, don't forget dinner with

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and this is. >> cnn. >> so sources tell cnn white house officials have prepared an executive order directing education secretary linda mcmahon to begin the process of dismantling the department of education. well, this now is arne duncan, former education secretary during the obama administration. secretary, thank you so much for being with us, dismantling the department of education. what does that even mean, do you think? and who would be most affected? >> well. >> it's hard to tell. >> and, you know. >> he had. >> an executive order that he was supposed to sign today on that. he probably saw the polls that two thirds of americans are against it. so he backed off. he saw the polls, two thirds of people against tariffs. so he backed off. and folks like trump are sort of cowards at heart. and so it's hard to tell what will happen if they just simply move parts of the department of education to other agencies, to treasury, to hhs, to labor, whatever we just have is a bureaucratic nightmare. and, you know, when you walk into a store, they say, you know, you

break it, you own it. if things start to fall apart in d.c. because they have moved things around, they are going to own it. and that's something they're not going to want to see happen. if they start to take away educational opportunity from vulnerable children. >> one of the things that you hear in this discussion is, oh, we want to move education back to the states. what do you say to that? >> yeah, i say, i'll be the first guy to say mission accomplished. he can put that banner up because guess what? that's already where the action is. that's where everything he says is so dishonest, so disingenuous. as you know, 90% of k-12 funding is already at the state and local level. so the action is already at the states. what the department of education does do, in all seriousness, is to provide additional resources for our nation's most vulnerable children, for our three and four year olds trying to have access to high quality pre-k feeds, children who are hungry and need a meal at lunch, children who live below the poverty line, english language learners 7.5 million children with special

needs are rural children. billions of dollars for young people to go to college on pell grants when their families, you know, aren't wealthy, first generation college goers. so if he starts to touch resources hurting our most vulnerable young people, where their only chance in life is to get a great public education, go to college it's going to be a major, major backlash. and he's going to wake up, you know, mama bear and papa bear at home. you can lie to parents about a lot of things, but if you start taking away opportunities from their children, you better watch out. >> so i just want to play something again that we played earlier. and this is what the president said in the oval office. listen. >> i want the cabinet members to keep good people. i don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cut. so we're going to be watching them, and ellen and the group are going to be watching them. and if they can cut, it's better. and if they don't cut, then ellen will do the cutting. >> so. so you've served in a cabinet. i mean, what would that be like, do you think, to have someone who comes in and at least up until today, seem to

have a lot of authority over your department? >> yeah. it's unimaginable. and that was the honor of my lifetime to serve in president obama's cabinet for seven years. and we didn't do everything perfect. we made more than our share of mistakes. but i can tell you our heart was always in it for the right reasons. and if i had someone like elon musk looking over my shoulder, there's no way anyone with any talent, any real integrity, any clear moral compass is going to work under those conditions. and so it's just it's unimaginable to me. and it's just you're going to get people leaving. you're going to have very, you know, in, unskilled people coming into those positions, people who aren't qualified for those jobs, but they're setting up chaos. that's what trump is good at. one thing, it's chaos. and that's what you saw today, and that's what you have. the kind of, you know, elon musk looking down, looking over the shoulders of our cabinet administrators, cabinet officials. it's unimaginable to me. >> all right. arne duncan, former education secretary in the obama administration. we appreciate your time tonight. thank you so much for being with