right now, senator roland bau burris is about to make a major announcement. what now? a new plan to kick the taliban out. our correspondent is embedded with u.s. forces. >> the senator, his mistress, her husband, the scandal that threatens to take him down and now other senators, even his parents dragged into it. you will see it all. why is sarah palin quitting her job as governor? levi's take on what he heard inside the palin home. keeping an eye on the newest picks out of iran, your national conversation friday, july 10, 2009 begins right now.

and hello again everybody. i'm rick sanchez with the next generation of news. this is a conversation. it is not a speech. yes, it is your turn to get involved. first, let's show you the picture. we've just been told now that we are about 45 seconds away from roland burris coming out and addressing the media there in chicago once again. that's senator roland burris, u.s. senator roland burris. he is occupying the senate seat that was left vacant by president barack obama. the disgraced former governor of illinois, rod blagojevich, appointed burris and there is where this story gets loud and sometimes confusing and oftentimes crazy as well. we understand that the senator is going to be making a major announcement. that's the way we had been told from his staff. we expect he is going to be announcing that he is not going

to be running for a second term. who knows? this is a story that has been filled with surprises all along and we could get different news for him -- from him as we watch this. what's interesting about this story is that we had gotten some reports earlier this the day that there is a possibility that the reason he can't run again is because to become a u.s. senator, you need money. he has had a real difficult time trying to come up with that money. going around with a tin can asking folks for money in his situation has been extremely difficult. watching this story from the washington bureau, trying to figure this one out. i imagine it is plain and simple and he is not going to run again and he will say that. >> reporter: we expect him any moment to come out on stage and tell us all he will not seek his own six-year term. he was appointed to this seat. this was president obama's seat, as our viewers will remember. he came in in an very unorthodox way. he was appointed by governor rod

blagojevich just weeks before governor blagojevich had been arrested and trying to sell the seat and benefit personally. we will expect to hear senator burris to come out and say he is not running. you are correct. he has had a very hard time raising money. >> let's listen. [ applause ] >> thank you. thank you so much.

>> run, roland, run. >> thank you all so much. thank you, thank you. thank you. thank you. i appreciate all that energy. we are going to need it. thank you for joining me here today. i am here to talk about some important issues. about the importance of representing the wonderful people of illinois and how important the united states senate is to the future of our country. when i was named to the senate back in december, i stated that i would serve a two-year term. i felt strongly at that time that illinois needed two full-time senators. and i still feel that way. i have served the people of this state for 30 years, public

service means working, advocating and fighting for your constituents and their needs. day in and day out. that has been my commitment. i have tried to do that every day of my career. and i'm honored to be a member of the yunited states senate at such a critical time in our history. we have a new president, new ideas dealing with health care, the economy, jobs, schools and the environment, all important issues for the people of our state and our nation. i am proud to follow in his footsteps in the senate and i look forward to continuing to work with him on the pressing issues of our time.

united states senate will be at the center of debate for all of those issues. i've been a member of that body now for seven months. i've seen firsthand that my colleagues are thoughtful, dedicated and loyal americans. that's democrats and republicans alike. and it is my hope that we can come together and work together in a bi-partisan manner to address these important topics. now, let me say this. the last part of my remarks deal with my future plans. ladies and gentlemen, life is about choices. make no mistake, i love serving

in the united states senate. make no his mistake about that. i love serving the people of illinois. make no mistake about that. i am the only african-american serving in the senate. i believe that diversity represents all segments of our society is essential to who we are as a nation. we must have adversity. the reality of being in the united states senate requires not only a significant time commitment to performing the job but almost equal commitment to raising funds to run competitively for the office.

political races have become far too expensive in this country. i'm making this decision, i was called to choose between spending my time raising funds or spending my time raising issues for my state. . i believe that the business of the people of the state of illinois should always come first, the business of our state should come first. so, today, i return to the place where my political journey began back in 1978. back to the south side of chicago. back to my community and my constituency. to announce, my friends, that i will not be a candidate in the 2010 election and that i will

not run for united states senate seat. last january, the same month that i was seated, obama and vice president biden swept into the office setting our country on a new course and reaffirming the truth of the american dream. the obama administration and the democratic led congress is bringing transformational changes to this nation. it is an exciting time to be in public service. more exciting and more filling with hope and possibility than at the time, any time, that i can remember. >> there you have it. roland burris has just announced that, in fact, as expected, he will not be running for that senate seat once again. you know, it's interesting. let me bring mark reston once again into this conversation. is that the real decision, the one we expected that he would

give and the one we expected he would give? or was this guy strong armed by some members of the democratic party who said, look, we are going to let you stay in office for this term but given all that has come out about you and your relationship and your conversations with governor blagojevich, do us a favor, don't run again? >> reporter: rick, if you were to consider strongarming roland burris in his re-election, you could consider it that. he is trying to say he wants to focus on the issues of illinois and raising money is too time consuming. democrats in illinois and washington, d.c. did not want him to run again. he came in under this very big cloud. the fact is, he was also appointed by a governor who had been arrested by federal authorities. so they did not want him to run again. >> that paints him. he is damaged goods, isn't he? we can look at it any which way we try. maybe some of it was his fault. maybe some of it wasn't his

fault, because he was trying to get a job at a time when there was a governor handing out the job who was being wiretapped by the fbi. so, bottom line is, though, he is tainted. >> bottom line, he is tainted. he was never going to be supported by the democratic establishment. there is a whole host of other democrats seriously looking at the sear seat. he was not going to get the backing. this is his way to get out gracefully. >> let's move on to the future before i let you go. if he is not going to run, who would we be looking at in the next go around, on the republican or democratic side that you know of that would possibly jump up and take this seat and be competitive for it? >> let me throw a couple names out there. on the republican side, congressman mark kirk, he is a republican, he has been telling republican leadership folks in washington, d.c. that he is going to get in the race. democrats, who they wanted to get in the race, the attorney general, lisa madigan said a few days ago she would not run for the senate. there are three people we are looking at, the state treasurer,

his name is alexi gianulus. chris kennedy, the son of robert f kennedy and cheryl jackson. these are three democrats that could view for the primary. >> what about jesse jackson jr.? >> he wanted to be appointed to this seat and, of course, got caught up in this whole blagojevich scandal. we have not heard his name. we know for the most part, a democratic congressman from illinois are not in this race right now. >> mark, you always have your finger on the pulse of things no malt ter where it is. chicago politics included, i guess. thanks to you. we will bring you back if there is anything else going on. we will monitor the rest of the speech. if there is any news or any great heated debate between him and some of the supporters there or some of the reporters, we

will bring you that as well. thanks again. >> here is what we are going to have the latest on for you now. >> afghanistan. we have new information, new tape and this question. it's a serious question. it probably should be considered by all americans. given everything that's gone on in this country over the last eight, nine years, is there a possibility that to save lives, including the lives of u.s. marines and u.s. troops, the united states, through pakistan, should consider -- are you ready for this? sitting down and negotiating a truce with the taliban. sitting down and negotiating a truce with the taliban? sounds crazy in many ways but some people are saying, it may be a bitter pill but one we will have to swallow. we are going to bring you this story on the other end of this commercial. stay with us. i'll be right back.

the national conversation. let's see how the nation is responding to that news conference from roland burris. let's go to our twitter board if we can. good move there, robert. just watched roland burris' press conference. hope illinois can ultimately get a senator that can be taken seriously. we thank you for your comments. now, to afghanistan. we have committed to bringing you unfettered detail perspective and analysis about what's going on with our u.s. forces in afghanistan during this newest offense. first, at least 17 u.s. and british troops have died this week. unfortunately, there may be more. to stop that, i want you to consider this question. should we negotiate with the taliban? that's a hell of a question, isn't it? maybe one that we thought that we would never have to ask. but expectation and reality

often are two different things. the fact is, mulah omar got away and so did osama bin laden. their legions have grown since. i am going to take you to afghanistan in just a moment, live. first, i want you to to watch this report. this we know. we know that someone has been in contact with taliban leaders and they are offering to set the table for the united states to join in those talks, talks with the taliban. who is making that offer. pakistan. cnn's michael ware has traveled into pakistan, a dangerous region, to get these details for you. >> reporter: i came to these mountains to unravel how the taliban in afghanistan are based from here across the border in pakistan. in these remote mountain valleys of pakistan's northwest frontier province, the cal ban can hide,

train, smuggle weapons and launch military strikes against u.s. forces in afghanistan. for generations, the border here has been little more than a vague blur among the people. that is what is troubling the american effort in afghanistan. to put it simply, american cannot win the war in afghanistan, certainly can't win it with bombs and bullets and it can't win it in afghanistan. part of the answer lies here where i am standing, in these mountain valleys in pakistan on the afghan border. this is al qaeda and taliban territory. right now, there is as much as 100 taliban on that mountain top, between the snow cap peaks and the villages. at the end of the day, it's the pakistani military who tolerates the presence of groups like the

taliban. not until america can start cutting deals with these people that there is any hope of the attacks on american troops coming to an end. the key leader the u.s. may have to deal with is this man. mohammed omar. the one-eyed cleric who created the taliban and led its regime. the man who after the 911 attacks sheltered osama bin laden choosing war with the u.s. rather than surrender bin laden. even with a $10 million reward on his head, omar has defied all american taemts to capture or kill him. he still commands the afghan taliban as they continue killing u.s. and nato troops. he and other top commanders do all of this according to u.s. intelligence from sanctuaries here in pakistan. it it was the pakistan military that helped create the taliban when the cia was funding many of

these same groups in the 1980s in their war against the soviets, it was the pakistan military that delivered the money, expertise and weapons like stin and missiles. now, for the first sometime in this cnn interview, the pakistani military still maintains contact with the taliban. at the military headquarters, we met a major general who con seeds the army's links with the taliban were toned down after 9/11. >> having said that, if one intelligence organization in the world shuts its last door on any other organization. >> reporter: more than talking to the taliban, the general says the pakistan ministry can get the taliban to sit down with the united states and broker a cease-fire. >> that's where pakistan can perhaps provide valuable assistance. >> that can be wiped out.

that's possible. >> reporter: this is one of the men who says he can help work that deal. >> people like me who serve the cause of the freedom. former cia ally, general hamid gul, once the head of the isie is famed as the godfather of the taliban. >> reporter: who does america need to come along with? >> nobody else. >> mull la omar, the most important taliban leader. to get him and the other talibans on the leaders, they want something in return. it wants the united states to use its influence to reign in pakistan's number one military rival, india. india's close association with the u.s. government in afghanistan worries the pakistanis. the pakistanis accuse india of supporting armed separatists in

one of pakistan's provinces. senior u.s. officials tell cnn the obama administration is willing to raise those concerns with india and the u.s. is willing to talk with mulah omar and other taliban commander's. michael ware, cnn. the possibility of negotiating with the taliban, it has certainly set up a furry in our boards here both on myspace and facebook and twitter. this is ryan from toronto. no, cannot negotiate with them. they have killed thousands of coalition forces. freedom will not lose to these barbarians. nardo says, the u.s. has no real beef with the taliban. it's al qaeda we have a beef with. taliban has a better chance of governing afghanistan than we do. rick, the taliban is hated by the u.s., no way it would work. let's not forget, it is the u.s. that waged war on afghanistan. negligent oe

negotiating isn't a bitter pill but the just thing to do. negotiate with the taliban? i thought we don't negotiate with terrorists? >> let me take you to kabul, the afghan capital where atia abowi is. how would you assess this fighting in this new offensive in heldman province. >> reporter: when we were in heldman, we were taken to a district controlled by the taliban for three years. it was the first time the governor laid foot in that

province. he raised a flag as a symbol that they have taken back that district. the problem is they had taken back the district before but they didn't have the manpower to stay with the coalition forces. that's why the afghans themselves, the villagers in that district don't know if they can trust the coalition troops. if they turn to them now, they see something happening that happened before. when they turn to them, the taliban came back and, therefore, went after them. so, now, they are very hesitant in turning to these u.s. marines and coalition forces and to the afghan government and trusting them this time. although, they have been reassured by the government, by the forces that they are there to stay this time, to build a petition and win them back over. rick? >> it it is amazing. it almost sounds by your telling that they love whoever loves them most or perhaps better said, whoever loves them at the time. unbelievable story developing there. we are so glad that you are there atia, to follow it for us.

stay safe and thank you. sbl. >> once again, we are reporting michael jackson's family knew about his prescription drug abuse and tried to intervene in one of the investigative reports that we have filed for you. when they tried to intervene, did they do anything wrong? how do you confront somebody you know is hooked? i am going to show you how to do it. also, senator ensign's affair, allegations of a coverup and a heck of a lot more money. that's the latetivist on this s. a lot more going on on this friday. >> hello. my name is shan nan from ft. lauderdale, florida. there air lot of pharmaceuticals out there. these people are running the show. these pharmaceutical represents, illegal drug dealers is what they are. bye-bye.

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now the guy with the white hair, that's roberto micheletti. which one should be in charge? well, they are negotiating that. nothing has come from it. to be honest. it's gotten kind of ugly. nobody really expects now that the two men will be able to find any common ground. zelaya has been particularly resistant. micheletti, really, no better. both went their separate ways after talks yesterday. no country has recognized the new administration, the micheletti administration, the interim presidency there in honduras. up next, how do you help a loved one struggling with a prescription pill addiction or any addiction? how do you do it? as a family, how do you stage an

intervention or a confrontation as some would call it. we are hearing some of jackson's family trying to do that very thing with their brother? why are they unsuccessful? what is the right formula? we are going to discuss that for you to help you. we'll be right back. there is a medicare benefit that may qualify you for a new power chair or scooter at little or no cost to you. imagine... one scooter or power chair that could improve your mobility and your life. one medicare benefit that, with private insurance, may entitle you to pay little to nothing to own it. one company that can make it all happen ... your power chair will be paid in full. the scooter store. hi i'm doug harrison. we're experts at getting you the power chair or scooter you need. in fact, if we qualify you for medicare reimbursement and medicare denies your claim, we'll give you your new power chair or scooter free. i didn't pay a penny out of pocket for my power chair. with help from the scooter store, medicare and my

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we welcome you back. getting a lot of complaints from those saying that we are twittering you out of the process. let's go to facebook and get some comments during this national conversation. caleb gener caleb jenkins, i the reason

senator burriss isn't running is because of the blago scandal. and jeffrey meeks, hell no we shouldn't negotiate with the taliban. others will share their two cents why sarah palin is quitting. ask the teenage boy who got sarah's daughter pregnant. he says she was stressed out. if she can't take the heat, she isn't cut out for the presidency. that's what he said. check out what else he said in a news conference held in the lawyer's office. quote, after the running, you know, she had talked about how nice it would be to take some of this money people had been offering us and just run with it, you know, and just saying forget everything else. i've heard of people offering books and stuff like that.

actually, there was a reality show they wanted to do. he goes on to say, but i think the big deal was a book. you know, that's millions of dollars right there and she couldn't do that as governor. that's his take. by the way, speaking of him and for what it's worth, levi is working on a career now as a model and as an actor. we wish him the best of luck. an iranian protester with a camera films the conflict in tehran but then it gets taken away by police. it's a great example of why it is difficult to bring these images to you. we will not stop trying. by the way, it is iranian not iranian. i apologize. that's next.

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out your course and see the distance and once you check the weather, you are good to go. >> reporter: if nutrition is your focus, check out a new online meal tool. >> you have an option of checking from frozen dinners and home cooked meals. >> reporter: the plan comes complete with recipes, shopping list and a cost per meal calculator. if all you need is a little inspiration, a free heldty tips e-mail service called healthy mondays may be your one-stop shop. >> it really focuses on promoting small, sustainable changes. it is a great program when used in conjunction with other wellness initiatives. >> dr. sanjay gupta, cnn rs reporting.

hi, my name is todd. my son was going to be on intervention. my other son is in treatment

now. the family has to go through treatment to heal. i agree. this is a big problem in this country. thanks, rick. welcome back. unlike him, we have received that message from so many people on facebook, myspace, twitter, in my e-mail, people who work here, people who know people who work here. michael jackson, a unique talent and an eccentric performer who was suffering from an incredibly common problem, an apparent dependence on pain killers and other prescription drugs. i could show you many of the cnn reports that make this painfully obvious to anybody. i want to talk to you about something else, something i know about personally as well in my own life, because somebody in our family died because essentially she was hooked on prescription drugs. who does that happen to? you would be surprised.

millions and millions of americans, some of which you know but are afraid to confront. let's say it as it is. watch this clip now from larry king last night. >> if you look at the data between 1999 and 2004, prescription pills fatal zoe overdoses have doubled. this is a big deal. >> the national drug policy control office pegged this problem, you ready for this? even higher. 15 million americans, they say, abuse prescription drugs in this country. jackson's family as our own investigative correspondent has reported to you, did try to intervene to try and stop him. obviously, it did not work. how are you supposed to do this, by the way? how do you get somebody to stop doing something you think could kill them?

ken sealy is joining us now. he hosts the show, intervention on a&e. thanks so much for being with us. thank for having me. >> tell me, somebody who has been affected by this personally, and the millions of others out there listening, what they are supposed to do? the most important thing to do, when you see those red flags to take action, because the disease isn't going to go anywhere. the addiction isn't going to end. the only place that addiction ends is in recovery, dead or in prison. >> before we deal with them, help me deal with me. and i speak as me for everyone else out there who is listening. how do i confront somebody that i love without risking their love? >> that's a delicate question. to answer that, there is real no cookie cutter. if i was to give you an answer and then one of the viewers tried that, it may or may not work. so i think it is really

important to get a professional involved and really dissect. every single addict has a rock bottom. i don't know one person that doesn't have a rock bottom. my job as an interventionist is to come in and help figure out what that is for the addict and create that with the family support in a loving, respectful manner. >> you mentioned a little while ago something about red flags. i'm interesting, because it seems to me and obviously sometimes you know, it's funny, from the outside, these things seem really obvious. when you are really close to it, you don't think that other people know. i am looking at it from the outside. it seemed painfully obvious to me a long time ago that michael jackson had a problem. what are the other red flags that people out there with a family member like this need to look for. can you help us? >> absolutely. so many families know what they are. they fall asleep as they are talking. they will doze off.

they shop for drugs. they will be buying them on the internet. so many different avenues. >> i just got the chills when you were saying all of those. every single one of those fit somebody in my family who we lost. that's amazing. there is one you didn't mention that i remember seeing a lot, dilated pupils for some reason, like in the middle of the day. >> yep, absolutely. the point being, when you see these flags, act on it. don't wait. don't sit back and think, you know, with addiction, it is not like any other disease out there. there aren't four stages like there are with cancer. when you have addiction, you could die at the very beginning of your addiction or it could take you being homeless. it isn't prejudice. people are dying out there. it is the leading addiction out there prescription drugs. it's the fastest growing addiction. we have to do something about that. a lot of it has to do with the

way we are living our lives. the way we are treating ourselves. i guess the bottom line in all of this before i let you go. by the way, this is interesting stuff. i want to get you back. i guess if there is one thing we could leave with people as we close this conversation today is don't ever have to utter the words, i wish i had, because that's probably the worst thing that can happen in this case. you are a good guy, thanks, ken seeley. we will get you back. the parents of senator john ensign wrote checks totalling $96,000 to their son's mistress. the parents wrote a check for $96,000 to their son's mistress? doesn't that seem weird? well, it's true. coming up, i'm going to show you the interview with the mistress' husband who says he is the real victim in all of this and should be compensated more.

a couple of quick comments i want is to share with you after that segment. man, are we getting lots of them. look at what rugged cowboy writes to us. he tells us, like so many others, my mother killed herself with prescription drugs and my dad got hooked by a pharmacist. this is an opinion that's been shared by an awful lot of people as well. that one right there, he says, maybe the real problem comes with the ease it is in getting

prescription medication. drug companies and doctors should not be in bed together. one opinion about something that many of us have been following. my thanks to all of you who have been sending us all these comments. i promise to read them all. i spent a lot of time on this program sharing the often tough to get individual out of iran. this is an important story. i told you so. we are committed to following it. student protesters in the streets of tehran up against their own government militia. today, we have a clip that explains what i was talking about yesterday. this illustrates why authentic images are so hard to come by. watch this. i will be playing that for you again. put yourself in the shoes of that guy who is holding the camera. you see everything there goes dark. the basij don't notice he is recording the events on the street. he has that shot there. then, all of the sudden, one

guard picks up on it. the guards don't even know that he is there. that one guard sees him and runs over to him. we don't know if he was able to take him under arrest or whatever. we are still monitoring all the information coming out of iran. mostly on social networking sites because western journalists have been kicked out of the country or arrested since they have not been allowed to work this story. we will stay on top of it for you and bring you any new development as it comes in. (announcer) imagination soars with crayola at an unbeatable price. save money. live better. walmart. geico's been saving people money and who doesn't want value for their dollar? been true since the day i made my first dollar. where is that dollar? i got it out to show you... uhh... was it rather old and wrinkly? yeah, you saw it?

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man, so many people are writing to us about that story we just did. let me sneak this one in. we're tight on time. country lady. not necessarily true for everybody, but consider it.

she says, "the sad fact is that most people's addiction started with an innocent trip to the doctor." wow. kind of blunt, isn't it. now, the scandalous affairs rocking the republican party are putting another senator on the defensive. oklahoma's tom coburn may have done nothing more than try to help a friend who was in trouble, but now he's having to answer questions, as well, which he says, by the way, he won't answer. the real story is about nevada senator john ensign and whether he tried to cover up his affair with money. some of which we now learn was offered up by his mother and father. stha reportedly paid $96,000 to mistress and her family. then there's the mistress' husband, who says even after he approached the senator in april and the senator wrote a letter promising it wouldn't happen again to end the affair, it didn't. it continued, because, quote, he was in love with doug hampton's

wife, cindy. and he told him so, he says. hang on to your hat, folks, and your jaw. here's an interview that doug hampton gives to "face to face" host john rolston. >> you were asked to go over and to say that the ensigns were close, really close. we were close friends, a very long time. very close while we lived in nevada. while living in the house, cindy and john got together. our attorneys did talk. our attorneys absolutely talked because senator tom coburn asked and was involved in these negotiations out of good will and good faith -- >> what were the negotiations for, though, mr. hampton? >> the belief from tom coburn and many that some restitution -- >> you believe that still, don't you? >> absolutely. >> you believe you need to be made financially whole because john ensign destroyed your

ability to make a living. >> correctly. he thought if he handled everything that way, he could go on with his life. he never looked past the moment. down the road, what would this mean, impact of friends, what does this look like, how in the world would you ever believe a cover-up or something like this. when you look at the details and we talk about all of the things that have taken place as a result of john's actions in leadership and the decisions that he initiated and things that were covered up to help this happen and to keep this from coming out and to keep this from taking place is really genuinely impacted my family greatly. it's unbelievable. >> and will it impact the senator's career. the man who conducted that interview, by the way, is john rolston. he's a columnist for the las vegas sun. he's going to join me for the very latest on this incredible scandal that could go beyond politics and possibly into criminality when we come back.

so what do you think?

i think i'll go with the basic package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. welcome back. i'm rick sanchez. this may be one of the biggest political guests in white quite a while. a senator gets into an affair with one of his ploismees and her husband, who also works for

him, by the way, finds out, decides to go public. and who does he talk to? las vegas sun columnist john rolston good enough to join us live now with this story. we have a lot of stuff to got gete to, john, about four minutes to get to. some of the developments everybody is talking about today, the $96,000 apparently paid by the senator's mom and dad. what's that all about? >> well, i don't think a lot of people were surprised to hear this, rick, considering how protective mike ensign, a former casino owner, is of his son john but the unseemliness, i've used that word a lot, of the father bailing out the 50-year-old son, that's what this looks like. now of course the statement put out by senator ensign's lawyer says this was a gift to the family because they were so close and was another in a long line of acts of generosity from the ensign family to the hamptons. i don't think too many people are going to buy that version of the story. >> no. some say there's no such thing as a coincidence. by the way, did hampton tell you

in that interview, of which we saw just a clip a while ago, that he took the story originally to fox news but rather than cover the story they tipped off rick santorum, who tipped off ensign? and i mention that because that's in many of the blogs today, including politico. and before you answer that, to be fair, fox says they deny that completely, that the reason they didn't do the story is because it somehow got lost in the shuffle through some employee there, which is something that could happen here at cnn, by the way, as well. >> what doug hampton said exactly is that when he wrote to fox news, apparently at the end of his rope and couldn't get money from ensign, he copied the same letter to rick santorum, who's not only a fox news contributor but a close friend of john ensign and someone doug hampton knew pretty well from having worked as john ensign's top aide. he believes rick santorum tipped you have ensign, not fox news, but no one has been able to

confirm that. >> hush money, or as it's been suggested, a severance as ensign's attorney claims. which is it? >> well, if it was hush money, he didn't stay hushed for very long, did he? so, maybe that's why he wants more money. doug hampton doesn't like the term hush money. he said it wasn't that. now, of course, he was a little cagey about the money on the program when he talked about it, rick. he said it was a severance. he said it was more than $25,000. what prompted john ensign, in my opinion, to put out that statement is he said it was well over $25,000, which then caused a group that has filed a complaint against senator ensign to call for criminal investigation because criminal penalties can attach after a $25,000 severance. >> yep. >> that's why they came out and said this was a gift to the family. and conveniently it spread out between mike and sharon ensign, to the kids and the family members. it's not taxable or disclosable. we still haven't seen any

canceled checks though, rick. >> aparentally his friend, who -- the senator's friend and also a senator from oklahoma who lived with him in a house in washington, senator tom coburn, has now been somehow dragged into this. in many ways because he was trying to help him. what's going on with that part of the story? >> well, some of that is somewhat murky. coburn is actually slipped on this. hampton's version of events is that he got some of the folks who live at this so-called c street house, including tom coburn, the republican senator from oklahoma, to confront john ensign about this affair, that john ensign subsequently wrote this letter, handwritten letter which i obtained from hampton, and posted that shows his supposedly contrition about this and that the affair is over, fedexed it, but continued then, of course, to pursue the wife at this meeting which hampton described in detail, coburn was among those who said you've got to do ri