-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> larry: tonight, michael jackson's shocking pill habit and what he allegedly did to beat it. confidential documents revealed he popped dozens a night just so he could sleep. plus joe jackson, the singer's dad, speaks out and blames foul play for his son's passing. then the investigation into michael's mysterious death. where does it stand right now? we're going to go life to the memorial service in jackson's hometown. fans in gary, indiana, say good-bye to a favorite son next on "larry king live."

good evening. you're looking live at a memorial service for michael jackson taking place at a baseball field in gary, indiana. the singer's father, joe jackson, is there and we'll be bringing it to you throughout the hour. first, let's talk about developments in the investigation today. cnn's ted rowlands is with us. attorney mark geragos in new york here as well. and he was michael jackson's lawyer, by the way at one time. and robin sacks, deputy district attorney for los angeles county joins us, too. ted, what is this about, we know more about pill you. what do we know? >> in terms of the pill use, every day there's more people coming out of the woodwork saying michael jackson was addict to x, y, and z. what's come out is circumstantial evidence he may have had a severe addiction problem when mark was representing him during that child molestation trial. security guard told santa barbara county investigators he

was taking in excess of ten xanax pills a night to sleep. this the latest obviously in a long series of people coming forward. >> larry: mark, what does all that mean? >> i don't know what means. a lot of the stuff that's come out today are documents filed in connection with the search warrants years ago. basically affidavits of cops who said they interviewed somebody and somebody told them something. they were double hearsay. i never put stock in any of that other than somebody who's got an ax to grind. i don't know what something five years ago informs what happened now and like i say, all it was is allegations at the time and it's just rehashed allegations now. >> larry: seems peculiar to me. robin, last night, ted interviewed police chief bratton who said this could become a homicide investigation. how does this figure as homicide? >> the way that the law works here in california is there's different types of homicide laws

and you can have murder, first-degree murder which is what we normally hear about specific intent to kill. in this case, a voluntary manslaughter type of case. >> larry: the doctor would be charged? >> that's correct. whether or not someone gave mr. jackson medication pills, whatever, that they knew could likely cause him to kill himself. >> larry: of course, the doctor getting paid by mr. jackson would be unlikely to want to kill him. >> that's correct. but you would hope not. but what happens is that, you know, mr. jackson having a drug problem could seek being a doctor trying to get a prescription for whatever drugs and the drugs we've seen in this case so far are drugs a doctor could prescribe. >> larry: ted, all of this is conjecture until you get an autopsy? >> absolutely. that's what chief bratton said yesterday. they're moving forward to cover themselves if it becomes a homicide investigation. they say the coroner has the next move in this. >> larry: mark, is it logical to

move forward if a doctor overprescribed in. >> you know, there is precedent for it preerecently when the attorney general charged people in connection to anna nicole smith. they could do it as a manslaughter. there's a recent california supreme court case which would give them some impetus if they wanted to charge in an implied malice second-degree murder. what they're saying is in line with your comment, nobody -- you don't have to have that intent to kill. if there is just such reckless disregard or gross negligence rising to the level where somebody knew or should have known, that can imply the malice and somebody could arguably, some ambitious or aggressive prosecutor could file charges including second-degree murder. >> larry: robin, is that tough to prove? >> there's difficulties in this case. you have a causation here. first of all, there are so many doctors in michael jackson's life. so many digit people.

>> larry: who do you blame? >> who do you blame? which doctor i which prescription was the deadly drug? was it the reaction of different types of drugs? if there is reckless disregard, you have a causation of being able to point the finger at someone. who is that? >> larry: what's the latest on the body, ted? >> well, that's still a big mystery of where the body is. there's reports that the lapd helped facility the removal of it from the staples center. the family says they don't want to talk about it. they haven't made a decision of what they want for jackson's final resting spot. the family wants it that way. clearly if we knew where the body was, the press would be camped outside the mortuary. >> larry: why can't he be buried at neverland? >> he could. he's got a -- the family would darrylly from the county authority. i would imagine, you know, he's a beloved figure in that county. especially in the northern end of that county.

i would imagine they probably would grant permission and if they did they could bury him there. it's up to the family to decide where they want to bury him and whether or not the county is going to allow them to do it i think is secondary. >> larry: robin, if the autopsy says accidental death, not conclusive, does that end all this homicide business? >> well, it depends how much pressure the family brings forward in terms of -- i don't think it's going to completely end the investigation. i think it should. i think given the fact michael jackson is a celebrity and adowned the way he has been adorned, there's going to be a feeling there needs to be duty of due diligence and make sure every t is crossed and every i dotted. >> larry: a famous story in new york, john garfield, great actor, terrific actor, died in unusual circumstances. he was found in dead with another woman. he was married. said there were stories like this every day in the press. wiley summer kim came up with t

story, the next story will be, garfield's still dead. are we coming to that? is jackson still dead? how long does this go? >> that's a good question. initially i think it's going to go heavy until the toxicology results come back. if there is inside is cause of death you're going to have a who other whoever the doctor is who gets charged. that will have a life of its own. it could go a long, long way. it's a good question. >> larry: do you know when we get the toxicology report? >> according to the coroner we talked to yesterday, looking at two weeks for the final report. >> larry: is that definitive? sometimes t not definitive, right? >> absolutely. it may not be definitive when you're talking about diprivan, a drug that doctors say leaves the system very quickly. >> larry: thanks, ted. back again at the end of the program. you're looking at jesse jackson. he's at michael's memorial in gary, indiana. the rempd will join us later. more on the medical angle. why would michael jackson be taking so many pills?

we're going to be joined by an addiction expert next. >> think

♪ >> larry: that was moments ago

at the jackson memorial in gary, indiana. dancers performing a routine to "thriller." a tribute to the hometown hero, michael jackson. mark geragos and robin sacks remain with us. we're joined now by dr. wreath creme, psychologist who specializes in addiction. he's medical director of the control center in beverly hills. what do you make of these reports that michael was taking ten xanax pills a night? again, that's not a fact. >> right. ten xanax pills, it depends on what dose it is. there's two milligram pills, one milligram, 0.25. if it's two milligrams, it's a lot. two milligrams is a fair amount. it's a lot. >> larry: there are reports he had employees getting them for him. what kind of signal does that send to you? >> big, huge red flag warning sign. danger, danger, danger. when you're at the point where you're undergoing deception, complete deception to allocate and design a drug-use program where you can get these drugs from other people, it's a

big-time red flag that you need help. >> larry: have you ever heard of anyone taking diprivan at home? >> never. >> larry: it's anesthesia? >> it's an anesthesia drug you use in an o.r. just the fact that you would have it at home is red flag number two. it's all adding up as a definitive problem. >> larry: does it look like people were involved that shouldn't have been involved in getting him drugs? >> yeah. think about it. you can't get those drugs on your own. if you're surrounded by a lot of people who are yes people, whose jobs, whose income, whose identity is based on you, what are you going to do? >> larry: a lot of people could get xanax for you though, right? >> yeah. >> larry: joe jackson told abc news he believes michael's death was due to foul play. watch. >> i couldn't believe what was happening to michael. because i just couldn't believe it, you know? i do believe it was foul play. i do believe that. yeah. >> larry: robin, what do you make of that?

>> i think there does have an aura of foul play especially when you're talking about drugs that most of us have never heard about until this case came about. we've heard about xanax, about painkillers, but hearing about anesthetics that are only used in an orks rrks it takes it to a whole different level. >> larry: mark, does that fit foul play? >> i think there's that connotation that if it's foul play, that somebody did something nefarious and i think prosecutors or police would say if they're building a case that the nefarious act or foul play is by giving drugs or prescribing drugs that ended up doing something that ended up in his death. whether that was an overdose or whether it was suppressing his system such that he couldn't breathe anymore and went into cardiac arrest, i don't know. all of it as you say, though, is speculation until you get a toxicology report and until the coroner rules as to what happened. >> larry: doctor, people keep

saying these drugs, vicodin, xanax, all this. somebody's got to benefit from these. i would assume, or why are they on the market? >> these are very good drugs. >> larry: are they good drugs? >> they're very good drugs, taken as prescribed. here's the thing. there are so many dr. feelgoods out there and they're making my life miserable. i'm sitting here trying to get people off of these medications. that's my job, as an addiction doc, i'm trying to get them off. i'll get somebody, they finally are sober. i got them sober a couple months. all is good. they take a little trip over to dr. feelgood in the valley and all of a sudden they're getting 30, 60, 90 pills. >> larry: the father, joe jackson, is now entering the memorial at the baseball park in gary, indiana, of course where all of the jacksons were born. a city not many miles from chicago. robin, does this -- as a prosecutor, would you be looking around here? would you be -- would you be inserting yourself? >> as a prosecutor, i would want to keep my eyes wide open right

now to look at all of the people that are coming forward now, look for what everyone has to say. i'm very curious as to joe jackson's position now, all of a sudden he's calling foul play, he's had some other interesting colorful pasts that makes me question his integrity. i'm looking at it all. >> larry: how would he know if it was foul play? >> especially if he didn't have a relationship with him for a number of years. >> larry: we're going to take a break. when we come back, we're going to meet two top medical examiners. our panel will hold because we'll be coming back to them and back to gary, indiana. introducing one a day women's 2o.

the first complete women's multivitamin in a drink mix. with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy. >> larry: father joe jackson has been introduced at the memorial in gary, indiana. let's listen.

>> so, you know, it's always good to come back home, you know that. but i've been around the world so many times and so it does feel good to be back home. yes, okay? jesse, how are you doing? >> let's hear it for joe jackson. he'll be back just a little bit later in the program. a little bit later in the program. all right, the mayor's going to do the presentation. all right. >> so joe says he'll be right back up later on, okay? we're going to let him enjoy the show. >> larry: we'll be back in a moment.

>> larry: joining us now in pittsburgh, dr. cyril wecht, the forensic pathologist and former coroner of allegheny county, pennsylvania, and in stanford, connecticut, dr. henry lee, doctor of forensic science at university of new haven and author of "blood crimes." dr. wecht, what about this from a toxicology report would tell you there was a homicide? >> well, homicide determination is a legal one as miss sax and mark have already portrayed. it will be the determination of the prosecutor's office.

i've been involved in a few cases, at a federal level, in west virginia, in which charges of homicide have been brought. there's a specific federal statute if somebody supplies drugs, sells, or just gives drugs resulting in someone's death -- >> larry: all right. will the report, then, in your opinion, be definitive? >> it will be definitive in terms of the drugs that led to his death. it will not necessarily be definitive in all of the drugs that have been prescribed indiscriminately, improperly for him over the years. there's no way to determine that. he doesn't have lengthy hair which can be studied through segment l hair analysis. you can only go back a few days. >> larry: i got you. dr. lee, how many days did drugs stay in the body for determination of autopsy? >> it depends on the type of the drug. the investigation involves toxicologist report of medical

examiner, of course, forensic scientists and homicide investigator. if it's a homicide, we have to look at, say, use two different approaches, one called data mining. the second one is a record of cross checking. the data mining you have to seize all the records from the physician's office, including the computer. then i'm going to look at all the drugs seized and any pills and vials from his home, try to cross check them. look at the names, look at the date, look at the pharmacy. whether or not it was prescribed to jackson, himself, or his friends or employee. try to do data mining and determine if that's a homicide or not. >> larry: dr. wecht, if diprivan is found, which is an anesthesia performed in a hospital, would that automatically indicate to you foul play? >> well, i would not call it foul play, as we use it as forensic pathologists and coroners and medical examiner offices, that is used to

indicate somebody did something of a deliberate nature. however, if diprivan was given to michael jackson, prescribed by some physician and it was administered by him or anybody else at his home, then as far as i am concerned, it goes beyond negligence, goes beyond simple malpractice. it rises to the level of gross wanton negligence, which as i understand it, is manslaughter. diprivan is a hypnotic anesthetic. it is to be used only in a hospital by a trained anesthetist. a trained nurse. you have to watch the pulse and blood pressure, because that drug can produce a marked drop in blood pressure, all of a sudden can lead to respiratory respiration. you don't have that at somebody's home. that goes beyond simple negligence. prescribe drugs unnecessarily. >> larry: dr. lee, i had diprivan recently in a hospital where a cataract surgery, very

simple and very effective. i woke up and in a minute it was, like, gone. how long does it stay in the system? >> supposedly, only a few hours after you wake up, but some it depends on what the dose is and how long you being used that quite a bit with other drug and maybe stay in your system longer. >> larry: would an autopsy show it, dr. wecht, always, would it show diprivan if that was in the body? >> well, as henry has pointed out, it does lead to a metabolism very quickly but it will be present for a few hours. and they will be looking for it not only in the blood, but in the tissues. and that kind of analysis will take a while. and by the way, larry, i think they would be very wise if they also sent specimens to a separate independent forensic toxicology lab for corroboration for backup in a case of this nature. and i would be willing to bet that they may well have done that. so they'll look for me tab lites

of all the drugs mentioned on your program to see if there was any evidence of those drugs in his system. >> larry: dr. lee, if you're going to send it to other labs, it's not an exact science? >> it's not an exact science. any leading toxicologist can do a lot of different analysis to confer. to date, instrumentation is so good, i don't seek any problem. just confirmation basically to back up the study. >> larry: i got you. thank you. thanks dr. cyril wecht and dr. henry lee, two of the top pathologists in the country. we'll be back with dr. reef carim, mark geragos, and robin sax. what are any of the similarity the between jackson and anna nicole cases, if any?

larry: we're back with dr. reef creme, psychiatrist, mark geragos, defense attorney and prosecutor robin sax, author, by the way of "predators and child mole molesters." and you see a similarity with anna nicole smith, robin? >> i think the similarity is clearly in the drug use and the sad, awful story and the tragedy of loss with young kids. i see that as being similar, but i also see a lot of differences in terms of the caretaking, i think anna nicole smith's caretaking was much more limited to one or two people as opposed to the plethora of people michael jackson had around. >> larry: chief bratton spoke about this last night with doctors. watch. >> in looking at his prescription drug history, the doctors that he's dealt with over the years, we have the

cooperation of the d.e.a. and the state attorney general's office who keep those records so those are being looked at by our personnel. >> larry: mark, you're a defense attorney. are they going about this the right way? >> there's only basically one way that they can go about it at this point until they get records back and that they can determine what the cause of death was and whether or not there's a toxicology report that shows levels. there's only so much they can do. and what henry was describing in terms of taking a look at whatever pill bottles are found and going back and seeing who prescribed it and whether or not a certain doctor knew that other doctors were also prescribing, that's generally the kind of the investigation 101. >> larry: all right. so they're staying right the core, in your -- >> yeah, this is standard operating procedure and the ag's office being involved and the d.e.a. being involved is appropriate, especially in a

case that's this high-profile. there's always going to be every alphabet agency is going to be involved in order to determine whether or not there has been any kind of misconduct. >> larry: dr. karim, you deal with people addicted, right? explain something baffling to me. if i explain, you see these drugs, they kill people, you take these, you're going to die. you're going to overdose, you're going to get eventually addicted. why would anybody start with them? >> why would anybody start? >> larry: anybody. >> here's the thing. if it's an illegal drug, heroin, cocaine, i really get what you're saying. but some people are really unhappy, some people are really anxious in life. it's not like we all walk around and the addicts in society have a big "a" on their foreheads to show they're addicts. a lot of people don't know they're addicts. >> larry: does a doctor know if someone is suspect bl to addiction? should not prescribe vicodin? >> somebody with a genetic

history, a family condition, someone with a mental health disorder, they could be more vulnerable than anyone else. and in the future, we'll do chromosoal typing and we'll know what people based on their genetic history are more susceptible to addiction. >> larry: if there is a prosecution, suppose a doctor is arrested and charged, would you prosecute that vigorously? >> i absolutely would prosecute it vigorously. i think that there is not enough coordination that's done, actually, between the agencagen between the states, in terms of holing doctors accountable for a huge, huge lethality. i think there needs to be precedent set to be able to help people get out of their own way. >> larry: if there's an assumption that michael was a predator, since he was found not guilty, would be an assumption, wouldn't that benefit the defendant? >> would that benefit the -- >> larry: because the jury would say, michael jackson brought it on himself. he was a bad guy.

>> well, i don't think -- i think you kind of have to equate it like to gang crime. when you deal with gang crime, you have on behalf of the murdered, the victim is a murderer, themselves, but you have to look at it as the crime, itself. here i look at the doctor completely separate from the personality of michael jackson and i imagine that all that evidence about his past and sexual past would be secluded. >> larry: mark, why are doctors susceptible to celebrities and giving of drugs? >> because they're human like everybody else. i think the problem with prosecuting cases like this is the argument, the obvious argument is, look, if this doctor wasn't doing it, some other doctor was. clearly when chief bratton talks about the numbers of doctors they're investigating, that would be from a defense standpoint the first place you start with. how do i know if i'm a doctor that all the doctors were also prescribing.

if he wasn't telling me, go to somebody else. it's an entirely very difficult kind of thing, i think, to prosecute. although at a certain point, if it's over a period of time, then you have to show that there's a problem. i think cyril's point earlier, though, is probably one of the most telling. if there is something like diprivan there, if you can show that somebody prescribed it or that they gave it to him and it was in home use, all of this is speculation, obviously. then that is a real problem. that in and of itself, if you parade in as a prosecutor the number of witnesses who say, no, this should never be in the home, it should only be in a hospital, that's something that is going to resonate with jurors. >> larry: yeah. mark and robin will be back with us. dr. karim will be with us on another night, i'm sure, because this is never-ending. jesse jackson is next. don't go away. ♪

♪ i'll be there >> larry: all right, we go now to gary, indiana, where reverend jesse jackson is standing by. what's that scene been like, jesse? >> this is phenomenal, you know. in hollywood, we saw the lionel richies and jennifer hudsons, the stevie wonders. here now is the raw brothers.

here are the abcs, here's where it all began. 11 people, nine of them living in a four-room house on jackson street. and that was his first platform to learn the dance, to sing, a father, two jobs, a disciplinarian, a mama who was a seamstress. this is the origin of this great family. >> larry: what's the reaction of the people of gary toward him? >> they feel so proud of the fact that he came from here. but they also talk so much about the jackson family and its values. you know, when you think about 11 people living in four rooms, six boys in bunk beds in one room with their parents and three girls in the front and then there was structure, a sense of responsibility, a sense of mutual obligation, michael comes from these origins. so that's just the family comes. and of course when you have a two-parent household, religious values and strong discipline, it

creates great by-products. >> larry: isn't it, though, jesse, suspect middle america kind of bothered by all they hear about michael? >> yeah, they hear a lot, but what they know is that he was to them the most phenomenal recording aftist in the history of the world. for him, they were proud of him. a hometown boy who made good. and that's the balance of what they hear and what they know. i think in the end, he'll be known by his musical genius, by his dance, and by his innovation. they do not know quite what all of the innuendos and rumors mean, so they're more patient, i think, than many other people who have to put up with 24-hour news cycle. >> larry: as a man of the cloth, are you concerned if there was drug use and improperly given by doctors? does it bother you? >> it bothers me very much that we know that the doctor did not talk with the parents, did not

talk or did not sign the death certificate. showed up later with a lawyer. it raises very suspicious questions, of course, and it does concern me. and that michael was involved in self-prescribed drug rehearsal to him and had the doctor do his hypocritical -- his hip po kratic oath, and do his duty. we don't know the answers to these questions, but we're willing to wait and find out. >> larry: agreed. how's the family doing? >> well, it seems to me that you have a big family, number one, and one that has now, they've lost a lot, they have a lot left. and the family has very strong religious values. mrs. jackson is a very strong, devout practicing ja how have's witness and so is rebbie. two-parent household to give them strength. i watched them over these past few days and watched that family come together to build the great

momentum we saw in the event on this past tuesday. to watch his children interact with his grandparents in that compound behind their cousins. so i think even though there are unanswered questions that they have and there is still some angst, there is still great strength in this family. >> larry: do you agree with reverend sharpton that michael's importance was bigger than music? that he broke down more racial barriers than we give him credit for? >> well, he was a product of an era of when they were coming down. i mean, how can i put this? i first saw michael before the richard hatcher inauguration of 1957. been down just two years. then a summit at expo. so as those walls were coming down, more blacks and whites go to school together, live together, play ball together, sing and dance together, he was, in some ways, a by-product of

that age and helped create it. before there was a michael reaching across, there was nat cole doing christmas songs, but couldn't quite get across, a 15-minute tv show without sponsors and sinatra. so we reached out for a long time, but michael came at a time that as walls were coming down, he was building bridges. a perfect mix for the man in his time. >> larry: thank you as always, reverend jesse jackson on the scene in gary, indiana, at this memorial service tonight. we'll be back in 60 seconds with more. when you're really in pain relief can't come fast enough. introducing bayer quick release crystals. it's ready to dissolve faster than caplets or tablets. it's a whole new way from bayer to dissolve pain fast. new bayer quick release crystals.

>> larry: here's a look, by the way, at the best of, highlights from the michael jackson memorial under way in gary, indiana, tonight. watch. ♪ because i'm bad, i'm bad come on ♪ ♪ you know i'm bad, i'm bad you know it ♪ ♪ you know i'm bad, i'm bad come

on, you know ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm starting with the man in the mirror ♪ ♪ i'm asking him to change his ways ♪ ♪ and no message could have been any clearer ♪ ♪ if you wanna make the world a better place ♪ ♪ take a look at yourself, and then make a change ♪ >> larry: an anesthesiologist who's also a pain management expert will join our panel next. what does he have to say about michael's alleged drug use? we'll find out together.

>> larry: we're back. mark geragos, robin sax and ted rowlands remain. we're joined now by dr. vim lalala, anesthesiologist, also specialist in pain management and treatment of addiction. ever heard of diprivan in a home? >> never. there's no medical indication to use diprivan outside of a hospital setting or an ambulatory surgery center. >> larry: must be gien intravenously? >> must. >> larry: therefore you couldn't do it yourself. there's no pill is there? >> there's no diprivan pill, however, someone who inject themselves with certain medications can certainly inject themselves with diprivan. >> larry: how could you possibly obtain it? >> very difficult. even in the medical world, only people that can really obtain it are anesthesiologists. or directors of a surgery center or a hospital. >> larry: now, this is still speculation. we done know if it was in the house. we don't know if it's going to be in his body, right? if it is, would you be shocked?

>> i would be shocked. this is the first time in my career i have ever heard of diprivan being used in someone's home. it's impossible. >> larry: what do you make of it, robin? >> i think that that's very telling. i think this is a drug that can't be confused with a recreational drug. this is a drug that can't be confused with having everyday practices or uses for people to use on their own. i think it's pretty damning. >> larry: ted, don't you wonder, aren't there strong sleeping pills out there people can get? >> a lot of things in this case. one of the things with diprivan, what's interesting, is it's not regulated. so prosecuting this would be, i think, difficult, because there's no need to regulate it, it's not supposed to be outside of the hospital. >> larry: it's just given in surgical matters by trained anesthesiologists, right? >> absolutely. >> larry: wouldn't, mark, that indicate if a doctor did do that in the house, that's evidence of a crime? >> when you just heard your previous guest say that he's never heard of that in a home setting, and i've heard, i can't tell you how many doctors say the exact same thing, that's about as damning a testimony

that you could ever want if you're a prosecutor trying to prosecute somebody, and the worst thing that's coming at you if you're defending a doctor in that situation. >> larry: if you take it a lot, would you even build an immunity to that, doctor? if you took diprivan regularly? >> diprivan is so powerful that you can sort of build a mild tolerance to the medication, meaning maybe an anesthesiologist has to administer a few more milligrams to put somebody to sleep. but it's impossible to actually build an immunity to the medication. >> larry: but if you did it yourself, you could die easily, because you don't have oxygen and you don't have a hospital scene around you? >> easily, easily. i use the medication in my practice as an intervention l pain practice 10 to 15 times a day when i do procedures. and when i do it, there's an anesthesiologist with me that's administering the medication. and a lot of times, if you give a little bit too much of the medication, the patient stops breathing. >> larry: diprivan is not a

painkiller, though, is it? >> no, only for anesthesia, only to induce sleep. >> larry: but if you were in pain, it would take your pain away, right, because you would be fast asleep? right? >> no. >> larry: it wouldn't? >> there's no pain properties of diprivan at all. >> larry: so if you were having a severe migraine and given diprivan, you would still feel the effects of the migraine? >> that's different. because there are studies that show that diprivan might help migraine headaches. but when we're talking about general pain, back pain, joint pain, neck pain, there's no pain properties to the medication. >> larry: robin, doesn't this whole pain thing boggle you? i mean, the flood of it out there? so many people in pain emotionally and physically? >> it seems to be the convenient excuse. everyone has some sort of pain. at what point are we going to start managing our pain and dealing with our pain short of medication and drugs? >> larry: hold on. i'm hearing two things at once. i'm sorry. i think i was hearing from the

service. i didn't mean to interrupt you. ted, what do you make of it as a member of society? >> one of the things that's interesting is people around him and the nurse said he was having trouble sleeping and this was sort of his thing. that's apparently why he was using it as crazy as it sounds to anybody else. you know, maybe because he apparently used it in the tour years ago. getting up for this tour and getting decent rest with this. this is sort of his mentality. >> larry: mark, you defended him. you spent some time with him. what indications did you see, if any, of michael and drug addiction? >> i will tell you that when i was representing him, it was off and on for about 18 months, i did not see any evidence of disabling drug addiction or anything else. i saw somebody who was always engaged and obviously in his defense and fighting to some degree about what was going on. but i didn't see any evidence of what's almost become, i think,

in a way, a characterture of who he was. and so i don't know what to make of it and i render no opinion. i think a lot of it is speculation and i'm not so sure a lot of the people who are out there saying certain things are actually telling the truth as they know it. so the only people who i think would know are people who are in his inner circle within the last six months to a year. and as we know, not a whole lot of them are talking. >> larry: isn't that one of the great dangers, robin, of a story like this? >> absolutely. >> larry: 24-hour news cyber rumors become fact. >> people like myself and mark who are -- he's in a little bit of a different position as he worked with him and knows him very well. we are speculating. we are looking at this. i think it's clear at least from the toxicology or what we think the toxicology reports are going to say is if this drug was there and someone's uses that drug to sleep, that's a problem. >> larry: we don't know it, do

we, ted? >> absolutely not. people have been reporting things daily, hourly, about things we don't know about. >> larry: websites -- >> a lot of it's false. remember the first day, he had a shot of demerol an hour before he died. who's talking about that anymore? >> larry: mark? >> that's exactly the problem. with this story, with the stories previous to this within the last, you know, couple of years. obviously there's always a scandal de jure. all of these things get reported. some website posts it, then somebody else picks it up. then it's according to this source, according to that source. before you know it, the thing gathers momentum and stated as fact. there's so much of this that has no basis in any fact whatsoever and becomes so speculative. it does a disservice to the legitimate mainstream media. >> larry: let me get a break and back with the panel. in connection with with dr. klein, we were contacted by the

man who said he did not personally receive any money in connection with the martin besheer interview of michael jackson. the doctor had said he did. the dr. klein interview will be repeated tomorrow night. we'll be right back. if you're taking 8 extra-strength tylenol... a day on the days that you have arthritis pain, you could end up taking 4 times the number... of pills compared to aleve. choose aleve and you could start taking fewer pills. just 2 aleve have the strength... to relieve arthritis pain all day.

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>> larry: that is the memorial service in gary, indiana, the hometown of the jacksons. let's take a call for our panel. chicago, hello. >> caller: yeah, i was wondering about the interaction between the diprivan and the xanax. could that be the cause of the death or the demerol, too? >> larry: doctor? >> all of the met cases combined actually have a synergistic effect meaning you're taking xanax, that can cause respiratory depression given the level of the dosage. if you add on the diprivan, that's a lethal combination if not in a monitored setting. >> larry: it would be damaging to take diprivan with another drug? right? >> of course, yes. >> larry: that is why if you are going into the hospital they want to know what drugs you've taken in the previous 24 hours. you want to know on a patient you are operating on what is in his body?

>> yes. >> larry: that could affect the diprivan. does it look like it is leading to charges here, if it goes the way we're assuming? >> yeah, absolutely. because of the infrastructure in place with the lapd and the ag and the d. emt a. all working to collect evidence. they are looking at the doctors and prescriptions. if there is something in the blood and the coroner says this is homicide, you can bet there are going to be charges. whether if it will stick, who knows. there will definitely be aggressive charges. >> larry: does it look that way, robin? >> just from -- >> larry: is that the road we are traveling? >> the road we're traveling, i would like to say, is a road of investigation, a thorough investigation. it appears that if the evidence comes back where we can determine who the suspect is and that the causation, what drug caused the death, yes, i would imagine there to be charges. >> larry: mark, are you

preparing to charge someone? >> i've been contacted. i don't know that i'm not conflicted in this situation. >> larry: have doctors contacted you -- you can tell me without telling me the name. >> i have and i haven't decided whether i'm conflicted on that. i think i probably am. >> larry: because you represented jackson? >> right. and i just think there's too many -- ethically it's too thorny of a situation for me to get into. >> larry: but is it a case if you were not involved with jackson, one you would like to take? >> well it's always -- any time you've got a case where these kinds of issues, if you're a defense lawyer, this is the kind of case you live on because you've got what i would consider to be an ambitious prosecution. you've got a situation where it's a novel theory to some degree. it's cutting edge in terms of using the criminal law in ways that it normally is not used. if you enjoy the intellectual exercise, at least, being a lawyer, so that's intriguing.

any defense lawyer is obviously going to be intrigued by it. >> larry: dr. lala, without putting words in your mind, this boggles the mind to think of that drug in the home? >> definitely. >> larry: by the way, anesthesiologists use it. the average doctor wouldn't use it, right? there would be no reason for a practicing physician to use it? >> no. only used for anesthesia. >> larry: that should be made clear. only used on surgeries in hospitals. or in a doctor's office. could it be used in a plastic surgeon's office? >> yes. >> larry: thank you, panel. outstanding. ted, stay on the job. ted rowlands is always somewhere. we thank him and dr. lala, mark geragos, robin sax and our guests earlier. tomorrow night we repeat our interview with dr. arnie klein and saturday with the memorial show. anderson cooper is on assignment in africa. erica hill is sitting in for him, right now erica on ac 360.