babies. i'm putting mine up on ebay. >> a.j. hammer, cnn, new york. >> i'm don lemon at the cnn world headquarters in atlanta. see you back here at 10:00 p.m. eastern. "state of the union" with john king begins right now. >> this is our state of the union report for this sunday, july 12th. i'm wolf blitzer in for john king. president obama wants congress to deliver a health care reform bill for him to sign this year. can the united states afford to implement ambitious and expensive changes with an ailing economy? and what role does the government have in any final plan? the health secretary outlines the obama administration's case. james carville and mary matalin, they're both here together. they'll weigh in on the health care reform battle. plus, news today that former vice president, dick cheney, ordered the cia to withhold information from congress. also, president obama in africa. our own anderson cooper brings

us an exclusive interview from someone who was at the center of the slave trade. it is a remarkable interview with america's first african-american president. that's all ahead this hour on "stast the union." while president obama spent the past week overseas attending to global matters, his administration pressed ahead with its effort to revamp the health care system. the vice president joe biden announced a new agreement with the hospital industry to help pay for reform. there are still major issues to resolve, including whether to tax health care benefits in order to finance a final reform plan. here to outline the obama's view is kathleen sebelius. madam, secretary, thank you very much for joining us.

>> president obama has outlined his preferred payment plan, about $660 billion in savings out of the existing system. so money that is already in the system that's not making us healthier and going to procedures and practices that work very well. and about $330 billion in a proposal that would cap the itemized deductions that the wealthiest americans take. return them to level they were in president reagan's day's. they would tax the wealthiest americans, additional tax to pay for the hundreds of billions of dollars that would still be needed to make more than 300,000 a year. you're going to be paying a lot more taxes in the years to come.

>> well, the house has a version. there are a couple different proposals being worked on in the senate. >> do you like the house version? >> i think that it's one of the ideas that will be discussed in the long run. i think the president's version is that, it makes sense that wealthiest americans pay -- >> but you agree that they should tax the richest americans to pay for health care for everyone else? >> the bottom line is it's got to be paid for. we all have to play a role. there are employers included and individuals included. they were the most vocal opponents of anything changing in the health care system are at the table with their own vugss. i think everything is it on the table and discussions are under way. >> you are also open to taxing

health care beb fits that employers provide their workers? the president has made it clear that that proposal may dismantle the employer-based system. he has always suggested that we want to build on the current system, 180 million people have insurance provided by employers. what we don't want to do is discourage employers from offering coverage. >> this is what he said back when he was a candidate in september of 2008. i'm going to play this little clip. >> okay. >> everyone in america -- everyone -- will pay lower taxes than they paid in the 1990s under bill clinton at a time when the economy was growing and we produced 22 million new jobs. >> all right. so just to be precise, you're rejecting this bill? >> they're busily at work.

i it this president continues to re-emphasize that he has opposed the notion that we would tax health care benefits, continues to think that is not the best strategy to go forward. if at the end of the day that's the chosen way, the house clearly doesn't have it. the health committee doesn't have tax benefit as part of the proposal. we're waiting to see what finance comes up with. he continues to work with the finance committee saying this is not the preferred strategy. >> not the preferred. but it's not necessarily completely being ruled out? >> well, no lines in the sand at this point. the most important thing is a health care reform bill passed this year, comprehensive reform because we can't afford to pay what we're paying right now. we're paying twice as much as any nation on earth, living sicker, dying younger, and that isn't good for any american. >> will the president accept health care reform that does not include a public option? in other words public government-run health insurance companies competing with the private health insurance companies? >> again, he has said consistently and very strongly a public option is one of the strategies that will help lower

costs, provide some competition for private insurers, and make sure that consumers in many parts of the country have a choice. absent that, you won't have cost competition and you won't have choice. >> so be precise, is the president going to reject any -- if the house and senate says, you know what? we can do this with co-ops, other ways, but there's not going to be a public government-run health system, is the president going to accept this? >> i think you're going to hear from senators in a little while about a variety of strategies to get to a public option. there isn't one size fits all. so he, i think, the president has said we can have -- the issues are competition and choice and how you bring that into the private marketplace there probably are a variety of strategies. all of which are on the table. the good news is that congress is hard at work. we've got republican senators

working day in and day out with democratic senators trying to figure out how to make sure reform happens this year. and they're working really hard. >> when is the president going to say, enough, the house and senate have their own version, i'm going to come up with a barack obama version that i want you guys to pass? >> well, everybody assumed i had the 1,000-page plan in my purse as i traveled through the senate for my preconfirmation hearings. what the president understands is that this package of legislation, this very comprehensive bill needs to be a bipartisan approach. it needs to be owned by the house and the senate with lots of input from the administration. that's exactly what's going on now. progress happening day in and day out, people at the table, senator grassley is working hard with senator baucus and senator conrad and others, i think we're going to have a bipartisan bill with not only votes from republicans and democrats, but lots of ideas to reform the health care system. >> let's talk about the swine flu. you're getting ready --

>> h1n1. >> going to be starting in the fall here in the northern hemisphere. it's going pretty wild right now in the southern hemisphere. will there be a vaccine that will be ready when the flu season starts in the united states? >> by october, we will have a vaccine ready. when exactly? we can't predict. >> we have about 1 million cases of h1n1 right now. >> around the world? >> no, in the united states right now. and 102 countries are seeing presentations of this disease. the good news is that it's not terribly lethal right now. we've had about 170 deaths, that's too many, but we know 36,000 people die every year with seasonal flu. so we're watching southern hemisphere, no vaccine, h1n1 mixing with flu right now. we'll know a lot more as we move toward the fall, but we are preparing to keep americans safe and secure. >> give us a preview of the announcement you're going to

make tomorrow on the vaccine. >> there'll be another $1 billion worth of orders placed to get the bulk ingredients for an h1n1 vaccination. congress has agreed with the president that this is the number one priority. keeping americans safe and secure. >> great to see you. >> thank you. president obama even sees a health care bill says he wants to see a health care bill on his desk by the end of this year. lawmakers on capitol hill have to agree on what goes into it. up next, key u.s. senators break down what needs to be done to reach a bipartisan agreement. also, anderson cooper's exclusive interview with president obama in africa. it's a remarkable interview from the exact location where millions of africans were sold into slavery. you're going toe see it right here on "state of the union."

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nnchts ham hanel, republican judd greg and her home state of michigan, democratic senator debbie savenaux. and with me, lamar alexander of tennessee. washington, lamar alexander of tennessee, and democrat of north dakota, senator conrad, let me

start with you. you just heard kathleen sebelius the secretary of health and human services say the obama white house is open to this house proposal that charlie wrangle, the chairman of the ways and means committee has put forward to put additional taxes on the richest american families to pay for health care reform for everybody else who doesn't have it yet. is that a good idea? >> look, everything does have to be on the table. you can't negotiate properly without that rule in place. but i don't think the house proposal as i've heard it will be what's part of the final package. i think there may be some request from those of us who at the highest levels of income this country to pay a bit more. but there will be a much broader package of revenue as well as spending reductions in order to make this package work. >> yeah, are you open to the house version to consider a tax on people making more than let's say $250,000 or $350,000 a year at 1% or 2% additional tax on their gross income to pay for health care reform? >> that's a bad idea, wolf. what is on the table seems to be taxes like that more state taxes

to support medicaid, more cuts in medicare, more employer taxes. what should be on the table and more government programs, what should be on the table are more proposals like the one senator greg has made or senator burr, senator coburn. there are 14 of us, democrats and republicans, who support the plan, that would give every american dollars with which to buy their own health insurance and could be done without adding a penny to the debt. >> you want to tax benefits, health care benefits that employers provide to their employees as income? >> i'm willing to stop giving tax deductions to people for cadillac health insurance plans in order to give everybody a chance to buy their own health care insurance and not add a penny to the debt. i think that would be a good way. >> no matter what -- >> no matter -- >> no matter what -- >> what it means is if you've got a cadillac insurance plan and your employer gives you that, then some of it's going to be taxed.

that money will be used to make sure we do -- we can't keep adding to the debt in the way -- >> senator, is that okay with you? >> well, wolf, i think realistically, the one thing that is off the table is taxing employee benefits. i think we'll see some other combination of things. but employees don't determine what insurance companies are going to charge them for their health care for their family. and i think that's pretty much off the table. what's most important -- >> senator alexander says it should be on the table. >> that may be his view. i respect that. but it is not the majority opinion. i think what's also important in this discussion is that over half of the cost of reforming and changing the health care system is going to come with greater efficiencies, it's going to come with changing from quantity of tests to paying for quality, paying for health care not sick care. >> the hundreds of billions of dollars, senator, are still

going to be required and that money according to president obama he wants a deficit neutral plan. doesn't want the taxpayers to be burdened with additional costs. that's going to have to come from somewhere, and that's what i hear you saying is you don't want it to come from taxing health insurance benefits. let me ask senator greg what he said. >> that's correct. >> what do i think about that issue? well, i think the uaw is calling the shots there, that's why it's not on the table. they've got high-end health policies, and they don't want them, their union members to have to reduce those health policies. why don't we look at trying to control the rate of spending by looking at better quality delivery systems, which are more affordable, we've got a lot of excellent studies that tell us you can deliver a lot better health care at a lot less cost if you give people incentives, if you give the employers capacity to reward people for purchasing health care intelligently and giving up lifestyles which are basically

counterproductive such as smoking. >> well, quickly, senator greg, would you support, could you see yourself voting in favor of health care reform legislation that includes this public option? a public government-run insurance company to compete with the private insurance companies like blue cross and blue shield or united health care or some of these others? >> no. we do not want to go down the road that basically undermines our federal health care delivery in this country. >> senator conrad, you're not convinced that that public option would necessarily pass, that's why you've come up with your own compromise version of co-ops. having these co-ops that wouldn't necessarily be completely public or private, it would be somewhere in the middle. you think that's passable? >> i do. and really just to be clear, the cooperative plan is is something that we see across many business lines in the country, very successful. the associated press is a co-op, we've got ace hardware as a

co-op, land o'lakes is a co-op. the beauty of it, it does provide competition for insurance companies. but it is not government-run, government-controlled, it's membership-run, membership-controlled. >> do you support that, senator alexander? >> it all depends. blue cross could fit under his definition of a co-op. the problem with a government-run plan would be this. say the president said let's buy the rest of general motors to keep the ford company honest. that wouldn't matter unless he gave the government car some advantage. so he might say, well, all your repairs are going to be at a very low cost, but all of the mechanics might say, we're not going to -- we're not going to work on the government car. that's what you have with a government plan today with medicaid, 40% of the doctors won't serve medicaid patients because of the low service and it's the only option --

>> i want to ask, i'll rephrase the question for senator stabenow. could you support health care reform that does not include a public option? >> well, my first and strong choice is a public option. and i have to say, wolf, is what my friends are saying, senator gregg and alexander are really scare tactics put forward by folks who don't want to change the system because they make a lot of money off the current system right now. >> very quickly, if you can give me a yes or no answer, i'm going to play a clip of what the president of the united states said in exchange with a reporter in italy on friday. and i want your answer. listen to this. >> is it a pretty much do or die by the august recess? >> i never believe anything is a do or die. but i really want to get it done by the august recess. >> will there be legislation on the president's desk, senator gregg, by the august recess? >> on health care, i think that's highly unlikely since the finance committee doesn't even

have a bill drafted yet. and we're in the middle of the sotomayor hearings for this week and then we're going to be debating her nomination for a week before we adjourn for the august recess. >> chairman, what do you think? >> i think we'll be through the finance committee by the august recess and i think that's a realistic goal. you know, there really is plenty of time. congress is going to be in session until christmas eve. >> what do you think? >> no, there's no reason to rush, we need to get it right, not add debt, not have a washington takeover. >> is the president going to be disappointed senator stabenow? >> i think he'll be pleased with the progress we're making, i think we're going to move this through the finance committee, get it done as quickly as possible. the most important thing is to get it right. the american people have waited for a long time. >> i want all of you to stand by because we have a lot more to discuss. we're coming back with the

senators. we're going to talk about the confirmation hearings that begin and word the cia withheld information about a secret counter-terrorism program from congress on direct orders from then vice president dick cheney. is it love? or is it fancy feast?

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welcome back now. the sound of sunday where we fill new on all of what's been happening on the sunday talk shows. the leading topic today, health care reform. here on "state of the union." ed asked the president's health secretary what she thought of a proposal by house democrats for a surtax on the wealthiest americans to help pay for a reform. just to be precise, you're open to charlie wrangle's proposal? >> i think everything is on the table. >> republicans were quit to shoot down that surtax proposal. >> at least 55% of the income that would be generated by this surtax directly hits the entrepreneurs who runs these small businesses. it would be a job killer and it would be exactly the wrong thing to do any time, but especially

when we're in the middle of a recession. >> many democrat senators are ruling out a proposal that would attack employee health benefits. >> i think what we've learned over the last week that on both sides of the aisle, people do not want to tax the benefits. democrats and republicans and given what the house has done, given that a majority of democrats are against taxing benefits, no, i don't think that's going to happen. >> the other big story in the sunday conversation the revelation that shortly after the 9/11 attacks, the vice president dick cheney ordered the cia to order information from congress about a secret intelligence program. democrats and even some republicans were critical and judd gregg said that both parties shared at least some of the blame. >> this national attempt by some of our colleagues on the other side of the aisle basically undermine, protect and develop intelligence is, i think, going to harm us in the long run. now, yes, this is wrong. but if somebody told the cia not

to inform the appropriate members on congress they should be the formed that's wrong. >> we're watching all the other sunday shows so you don't necessarily have to. two political pros you'll only see together right here on "state of the union." the democratic strategist james carville and the republican strategist and cnn contributor mary madeline. guys, thanks very much for coming in. >> morning, wolf. >> your former boss, the former vice president of the united states, you saw that front page "new york times." let me put it up and show our viewers. cheney is linked to concealment of cia project and the current cia director said to have oversight panels to direct ord oers. how big of a problem, potentially, is this for the former vice president? >> it's a big problem for the administration.

>> the obama administration. >> this is very suspect timing. the president's agenda is almost in shambles. his numbers are dropping. isn't it coincidental and they're accusing the vice president of telling, of ordering the cia to not tell the congress about a program that didn't exist. it wasn't operational, it was never operational. further, there's a reason, which he had every right to do, even if it was operational. there's a reason that executive branch withholds information, which they're entitled to do because when it leaks it renders said programs ineffective or inoperative and right now barack obama is threatening his first veto on the same issue. what is the, how many people get to know what level? because the more people that know, the more it leaks and as did our surveillance program, our finance tracking program and then the enemy knows what it is. i'm not saying in any way or suggesting that that story is

true. but, again, the timing of it is highly suspect. accusing the vice president of ordering something stopped that didn't exist while the administration is fighting with the cia. >> the timing of the story is related directly to leon panetta telling congress that, you know what, there was this secret program, we don't know what it was. but the then vice president told the cia, don't share this information, even with the leadership of the house and senate. >> the word is fully operational. 98% operational. washington, that's a great kind of statement. i think what is going to happen here is that something like this comes up and i don't think leon panetta. he's fiercely independent guy and i don't think he'll be involved in any conspiracy to try to save the president's agenda or anything like that, but i think eric holden and people are giving serious consideration and does anybody think this is going to be the last one or we know most certain it is going to be more revelation and might be what they did and enough questions

being raised where it's going to be very hard to take this thing away. >> the chair of the senate finance committee, dianne feinstein, is very concerned. listen to what she said today. >> i think you weaken your case when you go outside of the law. and i think that if the intelligence committees had been briefed, they could have watched the program and asked for regular reports on the program and they could have made judgments about the program as it went along. that was not case because we were kept in the dark. that's something that should never, ever happen again. >> she doesn't know. no one knows. no one knows what program they're talking about. no one knows what not operational means. but it is within the law, exists within the law as you noted in the earlier hour with for the executive branch to withhold anything they want which i'm going to predict right here and now that this president is going to do at some point in time.

the larger story and the more damaging story and why i think the obama administration is walking into a buzz saw here is what eric holder is suggesting he is going to do in this week's "newsweek" to backwards prosecute and investigate these people, these intelligence gatherers will have such -- >> those who were involved in the interrogation techniques. the harsh interrogation techniques. i want to play for you what john cornine said earlier today, the republican senator from texas. james, listen to this because this is exactly on the point that mary's just making. >> this is a terrible trend and i hope that the attorney general listens to the president who says we need to look forward, not backward. this is high-risk stuff because if we chill the ability or the willingness of our intelligence operatives and others to get information that's necessary to protect america, there could be disastrous consequences. >> and take a look at this cover

of the new issue of "newsweek" magazine. you can see it right here. i'll show our viewers. holder versus bush. torture and the attorney general's moment of truth. you know, it's a problem right now for the president of the united states who says he doesn't want to look back, he wants to look forward, but if eric holder says there's a special council named to investigate the techniques that's backwards. >> it's not going away. does anybody think these stories are going to stop coming out? of course they're not going to stop coming out. if eric holder says, look, i don't know how this is going to come out. i don't think that the president, i don't think the president's chief of staff and all the people in the white house really want to deal with this. the attorney general said i took an oath to uphold the views of the united states. in my view, this is a potential violation of that law. there seems to be a position he's moving toward. perhaps there's some kind of a

middle ground here where we can find out what happened and, you know, president has a pardon and a number of things can happen and the momentum of this thing is starting, you can just feel it starting to move. if this is the last story we see, probably this thing will just, will recede a little bit. but if there are two, three stories on top of this. the momentum of this thing will continue the bill. >> the justice department lawyers who authorize the harsh interrogation techniques, what some call torture and now this investigation of either cia employees who were involved in the interrogation or because i'm told that most of them, if not all of those who interrogated these three suspects and the waterboarding and other techniques were contract employees. they weren't cia officers. they were contractors from outside who were brought in to actually do the interrogation. >> nobody was off the hook. the attorney general, the

president, the entire administration takes an oath to protect and defend. protecting and defending in the case of this enemy. this asymmetrical war we're in is intelligence. it's the key. they're undermining our ability to gather intelligence by going backwards and investigating and prosecuting the intelligence gathers, the lawyers who render the opinion, it is criminalization of political and every time i come back to the timing. every time they get in trouble, which the president's poll numbers are slipping and his health care and global warming initiatives are under assault, they dredge up a darth vader story. >> i guess the question is this, james. at a time when the president is trying to get health care reform and economic stimulus package that may or may not be working the way you thought it would. enormous international headaches whether in two wars. iran, north korea, all sorts of

other issues. is this what you want to see the administration? >> i don't think the administration wants to deal with this. all right. but these stories keep coming out. apparently there are any number of people that i think the laws might have been broken. you're supposed to protect the kons constitution. if you're the attorney general, he pleads that laws are broken. i don't think that people say, gee, we want to deal with these stories right now. they don't need anything else. they came in and had a full plate here. but these stories keep coming and people, there are going to be more stories coming and we don't know the extent of them. what i'm saying is that in all likelihood this is going to continue and going to have to be a way to deal with this and the attorney general or appoint a special prosecutor or a judge or commission and this stuff is not going to go away. >> if the current vice president joe biden said a very sensitive intelligence program that is

under way right now and i'll go to the cia and tell panetta and company, don't share this information with the top eight leaders of the house and the senate democrats and republicans it can't go out. would it be okay for joe biden to make that unilateral decision? >> it's within the part of the law for him to be able to do it. he has to be very selective and i don't think politically he wants to withhold it from the top eight. it depends on what it is. in this case, we don't know what it is and it wasn't operational and the reason these stories are happening, they are being manufactured for political reasons. this whole panetta range of stories was to cover for nancy pelosi. >> a very serious charge you're making against leon panetta that you're saying he is involved in a political operation against the republicans. >> i am saying that the house intelligence fans or proponents with nancy pelosi started saying, misquoted or misrepresented leon panetta's use by saying he said cia mislead congress and then they walked it back and said, no, they won't mislead congress and

then in the middle of that the story just comes out that accusing the vice president of not telling congress, ordering the cia not to tell congress about a program that did not exist, was not operational. >> wrap it up, james. >> 99% operational and i don't think leon would do anything that would hurt his country. i think he's an honorable man and i have spoken and received a fee and all disclosure on a couple occasions at the college out in monterey bay. in the panetta institute. i don't think that he -- >> that was before he became cia director. >> nor would the vice president, the former vice president do anything other than what was in the best interest of this country. so, if you're suggesting that leon wouldn't and somebody else

would, i hope that wasn't your suggestion. >> we have an investigation and we'll find out. maybe everybody is right. >> meanwhile, we're investigating, wolf, the cia is saying i am not gathering intelligence, i don't want to put my family through this. you can indict a ham sandwich in this town and if they feel that's what's going to happen to them -- >> you admit they should do it lawfully and legally. >> and 100%, 110% confident the vice president and the former administration did everything within the confines of the law. >> don't go away, we have much more to talk about with james and mary. president obama is back from his overseas trip. anderson cooper within the african nation as well as spoke with the president. we're going to bring you some of anderson's exclusive interview. that's just ahead on "state of the union." my cholesterol and other risk factors... increased my chance of a heart attack.

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i'm don lemon live in the cnn headquarters in atlanta. more "state of the union" in just a moment. i want to give you headlines. there's been an arrest in connection with the murder af florida couple known for their

large family of mostly adopted children. the sheriff says 52-year-old leonard patrick gonzalez, there you see his face, he has been arrested on a charge of evidence tampering. sheriff says there are more arrests to come. the couple was killed on thursday, eight of their children were in the home at the time. the space shuttle is not going anywhere tonight for the second time in as many days nasa scrubbed the scheduled launch of endeavor. the shuttle was supposed to have lifted off at 7:00 p.m. eastern hour. but just moments before nasa backed off because of storms around a 20-mile radius. the new launch time is tomorrow evening just before 7:00 p.m. eastern. whenever it happens, you can watch it live on cnn. i'm don lemon. those are your headlines. "state of the union" with wolf blitzer right after a break. their night-vision goggles keeping them safe on a perilous flight...

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news makers and reporters were out there on the sunday morning talk shows. only one gets last word. that honor today goes to democraticman patrick murphy from pennsylvania. that's all ahead in this hour of "state of the union." we don't know what the

information was. would that be appropriate under some circumstance? >> absolutely not, wolf. i mean there's a reason why we have three branches of government that are critical to the government. the fact he put the cia in a bad position saying, don't tell the congress. even those select few members of congress that really should know what's going on. it's disturbing. when it comes to national security, you know politics should always stop atwater's edge. i really think the vice president put them in a bad position here. the cia is doing their job to try to keep our families safe. >> you're on the house senate committee. do you know this program that the vice president apparently thought was so secret, so important, that the details should not be shared with the house and intelligence senate committees? >> i have been briefed by director panetta by the intelligence and senate committees. it is classified, but i will say it's a program that, to director panetta's credit, he stopped immediately as cia director. he went immediately to congress

and brought us together and said, listen, i just found out about this, i want to be straight with you. and we want to work with the executive branch, we want to work with these people in the cia because they're trying to keep us safe. but we cannot allow folks that take note to defend the constitution to disregard that branch. >> should eric holder ask for a special prosecutor or special counsel to investigate the bush administration's behavior in some of these areas, especially the enhanced interrogation techniques. >> i'm not going to tell attorney general holder how to do this job, but i will tell in you my job as a member of the intelligence committee, we're getting after this, and we're going to find out what was said, what was known, what happened because it is disturbing, no doubt about it. listen, i came back from 7:30

mass this morning and i read the new york times of what happened, and i tell you, i was pretty upset, and i'm upset with the facts as they came out as related to me by the director leon panetta. >> you're trying to get away from the don't ask, don't tell policy that bars homosexuals from serving openly in the united states military. you're a veteran of the iraq war, you served in the military. why now, in the middle of two wars, do you think it's a good time to move away from the don't ask, don't tell policy? >> it's actually the best time to move away from it, because we've discharged over 13,000 troops. that's over 3.5 combat brigades. if it's sexual misconduct, they should be thrown out. but just because of their orientation, just because they're gay, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. when you're a paratrooper like i was, you care if they can kick out a door in baghdad or kabul or whether or not they can do their job and whether or not you

can make it home alive to see your family. >> since 1993 when the don't ask, don't tell policy was brought into line, they say it's served pretty well and it's good for unit cohesion, for moral, for the troops. what do you say to people who is this isn't a good idea, keep it as it is? >> our men and women in america are professional soldiers, as professional as the 24 other countries that have allowed our troops to serve openly. even our strongest allies, great britain and israel, have allowed our troops to serve openly. these heroes who are 18, 19, 20 years old, they don't care about this. they care about whether they can get the job done. i tell you, it's disheartening when i hear them question the

professionalism of our men and women in uniforms. >> do you have any reason to believe that the people since the campaign have said, i think it's time to move beyond don't ask, don't tell, but so far he hasn't done it. do you believe he will take the steps necessary to remove this policy? >> wolf, in fact, he has done that. he talked a week ago to the secretary of defense and the joint chiefs of staff and said, listen, be ready to implement a change in the don't ask, don't tell policy, and it's our job to overturn that policy. president obama understands and has a healthy respect for a co-equal branch of government. he's not saying to the military, disregard what congress passed 16 years ago, no matter how wrong it may be. they put this discriminatory law into place. it will take an act of congress

to repeel it. we'll have the votes. that's my job, to quarterback this through the house and get it to the president's desk after it gets to the senate to overturn this change in policy. >> congressman in pennsylvania. thanks for coming in. >> thanks, wolf. i appreciate it. up next, the challenges that come with rural health care. the nearest hospital is often miles and miles away. and many avoid getting into the most basic care simply because they can't afford it. save money. live better. walmart. which beneful prepared meals. tonight? roasted chicken recipe? - savory rice and lamb stew. - [ barks ] you're right. tonight is a beef stew kind of night. [ announcer ] beneful prepared meals. another healthful, flavorful beneful. the place that inspires her to go faster... and slower,

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i'm wolf blitzer sitting in for john king.

every week john likes to speak to you about the issues being debated in washington. in the american dispatch this week, a look at how many in rural america worry their unique concerns and challenges might not fit with washington's debate over accessible and affordable health care. >> clay, west virginia is tucked into the remote rolling hills of coal country. the nearest hospital is 50 miles away on these winding rural roads. with the poverty rate approaching 30%, many here can barely afford to drive, let alone the care, like carla elizabeth walsh. >> if life and death depended on money, i would have to die. carla had a massive heart attack a little more than a month ago. first, an ambulance ride to a rural hospital. then a med i vac to charleston. >> she took it with dignity and we had no money. >> most of their savings went to

pay for back surgery elizabeth had a while back. she has diabetes and is legally blind. >> why won't you go to the doctor? >> because i can't pay for it. i could go and i get bills, and i can't pay those bills, so -- >> thousands and thousands of dollars worth of bills come in, and what can you do about it? >> so you'd rather not go to the doctor than to have a bill come that you can't pay? >> right. >> did you get in touch with her regarding that repeat on the mammogram? >> it is a dilemma she faces every day, trying to convince people not to wait for the medical problem, to seek medical care.

>> we offer a sliding fee payment scale. if they're at 100% medical care, they owe us 5%. >> the focus here is medical care because they know many of their poor and uninsured medical patients will ignore suggestions to see a medical specialist. >> we see a large portion of diabetics, hypertensive and hyper cholesterol patients. our hope is that we keep people away from needing extensive health care services. so our role in a rural setting is key. the question is, how do we keep paying for it? how do we keep getting discounted care? how do we afford to keep the doors open? >> a big chunk of the federal budget comes from federal grants. she says she has not heard much

talk from washington about how to protect places like this in small town, america. >> how is our role defined after that? i worry that we have patients here who will maybe not fall into some category ask somehow slip through the cracks. >> carla elizabeth walsh shared that concern. they owned two small businesses, watched the money go to health care bills, and now that thousands of dollars more because of carla's heart attack. >> we have worked all of our life and tried, and we can't seem to get any programs that have worked for us. >> it's not that the walshes or dr. shenard oppose health care programs. quite the contrary. it's just that when there's talk of big change, places like this