pilgrimage. monday marks 40 years since man first landed on the moon. on monday, the special hour of "the situation room." we'll take a closer look at that historic event and talk to experts about how it changed the world. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." up next, "lou dobbs tonight." kitty pilgrim sitting in for lou. kit kitt kitty? democrats escalate the investigation into the cia. republicans call the investigation political theater. sus sected al qaeda terrorists target americans and other westerners in indonesia. suicide bombers detonate explosives in two international hotels. and president obama makes a dramatic attempt to end the health care showdown with republicans and some democrats, even some members of his own party, are concerned about the cost of his proposal. but, first, breaking news on the investigation in to the cia.

democrats want to find out whether the cia broke the law by not telling congress about a secret program to kill al qaeda terrorists. well, that program was never carried out. house intelligence committee chairman, silvestre reyes, said the investigation will examine other cia operations. the top republican on this committee, pete hofstra, said democrats are trying to politicize intelligence. lisa sylvester has the report. >> hi, kitty. it was last month when cia director leon panetta informed lawmakers about this secret program being discussed, and it called for sending out hit teams to kill top al qaeda leaders. they have announced they are launching an investigation to see if any laws might have been violated. house democrats are specifically trying to find out if there was a decision made at the cia to withhold information from congressional intelligence

committees, and what role, if any, former vice president, dick cheney, might have had. in a statement, congressman reyes said, quote, i intend to make this investigation fair and thorough. it is the responsibility of the executive branch to ensure that the committee is kept fully and currently informed of all significant, anticipated intelligence activities. republicans, however, believe that this investigation is politically motivated. house speaker, nancy pelosi, two months ago, she said that the cia has been misleading congress about interrogation techniques, including one known as waterboarding. then this afternoon i spoke to republican congressman, roy blunt, he's also on the house intelligence committee, and he told me he doesn't believe the cia was even obligated to bring this secret program to congressional members because it was only in the discussion phase. >> there is no responsibility to the director, for instance, to tell the congress every time he or she has a thought about what

the cia might do in the future. the responsibility is to tell the congress when these things are in a position that they actually could happen. >> and the cia, in a statement, it said that it will fully cooperate with the congressional investigation. and that agency is conducting its own internal review. kitty? >> all right, thanks very much, lisa sylvester, thanks, lisa. we will have more on this later in the show. >> president obama tried to break the deadlock over his health care plan and its cost. he said now is not the time to slow down or lose heart, as he put it, but president obama is facing strong opposition, not just from republicans, but democrats, too. dana bash reports from capitol hill. >> reporter: damage control. in the form of a pep talk. >> i wanted everybody to just step back for a moment and look at the unprecedented progress that we've already made on reform. >> reporter: the president trying to change a rapidly

spreading story line that his health care plan is in trouble. >> i have to say now is not the time to slow down. and now's certainly not the time to lose heart. >> reporter: why the scramble? just listen to congressman mike ross, one of the president's fellow democrats. do any of the democratic leadership measures going through the house right now have the votes to pass? >> no. not at all. there's 40 of us that are conservative democrats in the blue dog coalition that signed a letter a week ago to the leadership saying we cannot support the current bill. >> reporter: ross and other conservative democrats opposition their own party's health care reform plans because they do not do enough to reduce skyrocketing medical costs. exactly what the head of the congressional budget office said in devastating testimony thursday. >> in the legislation that has been reported, we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that will be necessary to reduce the

trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount. >> it was a huge bombshell, but quite frankly, it validates what those of us, the conservative blue dog democrats, have been saying for the last three months. >> reporter: the white house felt the impact of that bombshell immediately. a bipartisan group of six senators wrote a letter defying the president's call for quick action. instead, urging congress to slow its rush for a reform bill. we believe taking additional time to achieve a bipartisan result is critical, said the senators. white house officials know the best chance for a bipartisan health plan that can pass congress lies in the senate, but negotiators there, who hoped for a deal this week, couldn't get one, which added to the sense of trouble. and a democratic source told me that there was so much concern here on capitol hill about losing momentum for health care, the democratic leaders called the white house and asked for presidential help in pushing back, and, kitty, they got it. >> thanks very much, dana bash. thanks, dana.

the battle over health care is contributing to a slide in president obama's poll numbers. the rise in unemployment is another major factor, of course. now, the president's approval rating has now fallen below 60%. bill schneider has our report. >> reporter: last month president obama's job approval held fairly steady at just over 60%, according to cnn's poll of polls. this month, an average of 57%. the american public is beginning to ask some tough questions about their new president, like is he a good provider. the nation's unemployment rate jumped to 9.5% last month, the highest in 26 years. >> the problem with the stimulus plan that passed back in january, it just wasn't targeted to get people hired again. and we've got now a situation where unemployment is nearing 10%. >> reporter: in 16 states, including seven of the nation's ten largest states, unemployment is over 10%. over 15% in michigan. in may, according to the cbc

news poll, 25% of americans were worried that someone in their household might lose a job. in june, that figure climbed to 36%. now it's up to 40%. and they're losing confidence in the president's handling of the economy. last month, people worried about losing a job still gave president obama a 58% approval rating on the economy. this month, their confidence has dropped sharply, to 42%. patience, says the white house economic director. >> we were at the brink of catastrophe at the beginning of the year. we have walked some substantial distance back from the abyss. >> reporter: do americans believe this president has a clear plan for solving the nation's economic problems? they did when he first took office, 64%. and now? most still do. but the number is down, more than ten points. nearly 3.4 million jobs have

been lost during the first half of 2009. now, that is more than the 3.1 million lost during the whole year 2008. kitty? >> bill, the number of people worried about someone in their household losing a job, those numbers are staggering. there -- is that part of the reason why the president's holding a news conference next wednesday? >> well, i think the main reason is what dana bash was talking about, that he wants to curb some of the pessimism about the health care plan. he wants to make sure that the -- the doubts about the economic recovery don't doom the health care plan. i think that's his major reason. but he also obviously will use the opportunity to urge americans to have patience. the plan was not meant to work this quickly. and most of the money that was in the stimulus package has actually not yet been spent. >> that's right. thanks very much, bill schneider. thanks, bill. >> okay. well, president obama today called the terrorist bombing of two hotels in indonesia an outrage. suicide bombers killed 6 people

and 50 other people were wounded, including 8 americans. now, police are analyzing the surveillance video. it shows a man pulling a wheeled suitcase seconds before one of those blasts in a marriott hotel. and that explosion killed five people as well as the bomber. dan rivers reports from jakarta. >> reporter: this footage may hold vital clues as to who carried out the double bombing in jakarta. a man wheels a suitcase through the lobby. seconds later, a massive blast tears through the hotel. it's not clear if the suicide bomber was the man caught on camera, but police are urgently checking. moments after the two explosions, a security guard films as smoke pours from the marriott hotel. the building, barely visible, as a crowd of confused onlookers realizes this is a terrorist attack. then, sirens as the first emergency vehicles arriving at the scene. the ritz carlton was also hit, windows gaping open, shredded

curtains fluttering in the tropical heat. >> i heard a huge explosion. and i looked out my window towards the marriott, and there was a big plume of black and brown smoke going up. >> reporter: and then the shock as news of the dead filtered through to the crowds outside. but then the police move our camera back, as they find a third bomb, undetonated, but live, in a room on the 18th floor. the bomb disposal van moves in, and it's made safe. the police think the terrorists were checked in as guests, using room 1808 as a command-and-control center. the police chief leading the investigation says the explosives recovered were similar to those found in west java, in a house with links to indonesia's most wanted man, nordin top. he is alleged to have links to the shadowy network jemaah

islamiyah, or j.i. the marriott has been attacked before by j.i. j.i. were also behind the bombings on the holiday island of bali, seven years ago, which killed more than 200 people, many of them foreign tourists. the reason these two hotels were targeted this time is unclear. the manchester united football team were due to stay at the ritz-carlton on sunday, but it's not thought the attack was aimed at disrupting their tour. most likely the hotels were hit because they were popular with westerners. inside both hotels, the police are now carrying out a detailed forensic investigation to try and establish who carried out these attacks. everyone is assuming it may have been jemaah islamiyah, the most active terrorist network in this region. everyone here is wondering, after a lull of several years, are the bombers back in jakarta? dan rivers, cnn, jakarta. secretary of state, hillary clinton, today called the jakarta bomb attacks senseless,

and tonight she arrived in the city of mumbai, india, which was attacked by terrorists last november. now, during her visit, clinton will pay tribute to the 170 people killed in that attack. she is in india to deepen links between the united states and that country. and next week, clinton will travel to thailand and meet with asian foreign ministers. defense secretary, robert gates, today hinted the united states could send more troops to afghanistan. gates said he would consider the opinions of the head of the central command and the commander of our troops in afghanistan. >> i have communicated personally, to both general petraeus and general mcchrystal, that i want them to feel that they can ask for whatever they genuinely feel they need, and then we'll evaluate that. >> the number of our troops in afghanistan will rise to 68,000 this year, and that includes 17,000 reinforcements being sent by president obama. new concerns tonight about iran's nuclear program.

the associated press is reporting that diplomats believe iran could have the means to test nuclear weapons within six months. those diplomats say there's no evidence that iran has any plans for such a test. the united states says iran must show willingness to talk about this nuclear program in september or face consequences. still to come -- important new information about the investigation in to the murder of a florida couple, who adopted special-needs children. and wall street is fighting president obama's efforts to impose tougher regulations on the financial industry.

there is some good news on the economy tonight. construction of new homes shot up 3.6% in june, that's the highest level in seven months. one reason is first-time buyers are rushing to beat a deadline for earning a 10% tax credit. that credit is part of the economic stimulus package. citigroup today reported a surprising second-quarter profit of $4.3 billion. analysts had expected a $1 billion loss. also today, bank of america reported a $3.2 billion profit for the second quarter, and earlier in the week jpmorgan chase and goldman sachs both reported multibillion dollar second-quarter profits. well, new efforts tonight by special interest groups and lobbyists to kill a proposed consumer protection agency. this agency would set new

consumer-friendly standards for loans and credit cards. the agency is part of president obama's effort to tighten financial regulations. industry lobbyists say changing the rules could, in fact, raise costs and deny credit to many consumers. jessica yellin reports. >> reporter: if you hold a credit card, a mortgage, or a student loan, congress is considering a new agency designed to give you a lot more protection. but guess who's fighting it? the financial services industries, and that has consumer groups outraged. >> this is the biggest financial fight i've seen in the 20 years i've been in washington. the people gearing up to kill the agencies are the companies whose irresponsible practices and abuses led to the collapse of the world economy. >> reporter: last year alone, the financial services industry spent $373 million lobbying. one of its top lobbyists says stopping the consumer protection agency is their number one priority.

>> we need to move slowly. we need to answer some of these tough questions about costs, about consequences, about will it stifle innovation. >> reporter: the agency is a centerpiece of president obama's proposed new financial regulations. >> this agency will have the power to set standards. >> reporter: it was the brainchild of elizabeth warren. she's congress' watchdog for the wall street bailout. she says this agency would demand simplified contracts, no more fine print, no more tricks and traps. >> and let's switch over and have plain vanilla products, page and a half long credit card agreements. there's the interest rate. there's what causes the penalty and how much you'll get charged. >> reporter: but opponents warn any changes in the industry could have a devastating impact on the economy. >> if credit goes up and costs more, therefore some people that are eligible for credit today, will not be eligible in the future. >> so it is a fierce fight. the house of representatives

have been holding hearings about the agency. the first vote on it is set to happen in two weeks. jessica yellin, cnn, washington. well, to hear lou's thoughts on these stories, and all week's news, join him on the radio, monday through friday for "the lou dobbs show "2:00 to 4:00 p.m. every day. still ahead, we'll tell you why a health care overhaul could mean the highest taxes in decades for some americans. and new information on the brutal killing of a florida couple in their own home. while nine of their children were there. tonight, we know what was inside a safe that was stolen from the house. my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.

in florida, investigators say another arrest could come next week in the murder of the parents of 17 children. now, eight people were already charged, seven of them with murder. the husband and wife were buried today. their lawyer revealed what was inside a safe, stolen from the home during the crime. ed lavandera has our report. >> reporter: family and friends gathered for byrd and melanie

billings' funeral. their children attended the service at this pensacola church. it seemed that the safe would hold the clue, the insight, into the motive to why the billings were killed. authorities say it was the only item taken when five men burst into their home, shot and killed the couple and then made away with the safe. but even though investigators and prosecutors have refused to talk about what was in the safe, the billings' family attorney revealed the secret. >> the safe that was removed from the billings' home contained only children's prescription medication, important family documents, and some jewelry of sentimental value. hopefully this will put to rest the intense speculation and rumors that are swirling about the billings family. >> reporter: those contents would hardly reveal something you'd think a group of armed men would want to rob, but the announcement surprised investigators and prosecutors, who have said revealing the

contents of the safe would put the investigation at risk. the escambia county sheriff responded. >> because there was a lot of hoopla and a lot of speculation about the contents of the safe, some speculation that could have been hurtful to certain individuals. i can tell you as a law enforcement officer, i don't care if that safe contained beanie babies and bubblegum. because it was the object itself that was the issue here. >> reporter: the billings' family attorney has expressed frustration and anger over media reports that federal agencies like the dea are involved in the murder investigation. she said those reports cast a negative light on the billings family, but investigators say the dea is looking in to evidence uncovered while interviewing the accused killers, not into the business dealings of byrd billings. >> the dea was called in on the suspects in this crime. >> reporter: at the funeral, the billings children released multicolored balloons into the air. melanie billings' brother, ed brock, says the couple will never be forgotten. >> their lives were cut way too

short. but their legacy will live on. as albert einstein said, our death is not an end, if we can live on in our children. byrd and melanie will live on in our heart forever. >> authorities here in pensacola say the bulk of their investigation has wrapped up. the people that on the property the day, the night of the murders here in ponensacola aren jail. there are other persons of interest they want to speak to. authorities aren't saying much about who those people are, and as you mentioned, kitty, there is the possibility of one more arrest next week. >> thanks, ed. well, with unemployment across the nation so high, you would expect that crime to be rising, but not in los angeles. in fact, l.a.'s crime rate is falling. and the reason apparently has everything to do with a bureaucracy protecting itself from budget cuts.

casey wian has our report. >> reporter: the unemployment rate in los angeles is now above 11%. more than doubling in two years. but the city's crime rate is dropping, despite the economic hard times. the los angeles police department says violent crime here is down 5.6% this year, and 12% since 2007. homicides have plunged 27% in 2009. even property crimes, which would seem to be the most likely category to rise in a recession, are down. police chief william bratton credits the city's hiring of 900 more officers, help from businesses and community groups, and greater efforts to closely track crime so police are deployed to the most effective locations. >> we live and breathe those crime numbers. that's how we assign our resources. >> reporter: others say it's bratton, who recently quoted gandhi, in a newspaper editorial, who has turned around a department scarred by scandals. even with that success, city

leaders continue to lobby state and federal officials for more resources. mayor antonio villaraigosa travelled to sacramento to warn against a plan to divert tax revenues from local governments to close the state budget deficit. >> the money's got to come from somewhere, what you're doing is you're cutting critical services. you're not just cutting potholes and street repair. for me, 1,400 police officers is what we're talking about. >> reporter: the city has its own half billion dollar budget shortfall. money is so tight some city officials howled at the prospect of paying for security for the los angeles lakers championship victory parade and michael jackson's public memorial. the city is laying off as many as 3,000 employees but has exempted police. in fact, los angeles is hoping for federal stimulus money to pay for even more officers. according to fbi statistics, los angeles is now the nation's third safest big city. behind new york and san jose, kitpy. >> thanks very much, casey wian. thanks, casey.

coming up -- rising concern about the potential cost of president obama's health care plans, and the taxes, needed to pay for them. also, judge sonia sotomayor heads for the confirmation as a supreme court justice. we'll tell you how she reversed course on several key issues.

health care proposals, the house is debating, include plans to tax the rich. but according to a new study by the nonpartisan tax foundation, that tax surcharge on wealthy americans would bring the top u.s. tax rates to levels not seen since the 1970s. bill tucker has our report. >> reporter: the top 1% of earners will pick up much of the

tab for a national health care coverage plan if the current bill in the house should pass. under the latest plan advanced by the house democrats, surcharges would be imposed on people making more than $280,000 to pay for those plans. the surcharges would range from 1% to 5.4% on singles earning more than $800,000 or couples earning more than $1 million. the tax foundation, an advocate of lower taxes, is sounding the alarm. >> it's truly remarkable how high tax rates are going to be going if this proposal goes through. and we have to remember that this federal tax proposal is not done in isolation. it's done in combination with the high tax rates that many states already impose at their own levels. >> reporter: according to the tax foundation, federal state, and local taxes would rise to above 50% of income in 39 states, and in 8 of those states, the rate would rise above 55%. for a group of wealthy individuals, though, who have come together under the banner

of wealth for the common good, the cost is necessary, and even welcome. >> my attitude is that i've done very well out of the economic growth over the last 20 years. that's not as true of the middle and lower classes in this country, and i think it's only fair and reasonable that i, who have benefitted the most, contribute more. >> reporter: but not everyone believes the tax increases will stop at just the rich. people we stopped on the streets of new york have their reservations. >> no. it's going to probably filter down to the middle-class, which i am probably considered one of. >> i think it will affect everyone. it will cost more. and hopefully equal at a fair rate for what people can afford. >> we're starting at the top, but i'm worried it's going to trickle its way down. >> and the folks generally in line with those surveyed by rasmussen. that poll released yesterday found that 78% of the people who were asked believed that it's somewhat likely the tax bill

will also fall, of course, to the middle-class, kitty. >> thanks very much, bill tucker. well, judge sotomayor's confirmation as a supreme court justice tonight appears to be all but certain. senators ignored the judge's retreat on a number of controversial issues during her testimony this week. lisa sylvester has our report. >> reporter: senators tried to pin down judge sonia sotomayor. senator john cornyn saying that in her previous speeches, she has one message. in her confirmation hearing, another. >> in 1996 you said the idea of a stable, quote, capital "l" law was a public myth. this week you said that fidelity to the law is your only concern. >> reporter: on issues of race and discrimination, senators repeatedly brought up what judge sotomayor famously said, that she hoped that a wise latina woman, with her experiences, would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male, but in her hearing,

this -- >> my record shows that at no point or time have ever permitted my personal views or sympathies to influence an outcome of a case. >> reporter: on another issue, over what role foreign law should play in u.s. courts, senator cornyn quoted sotomayor from three months ago when she said, quote, international law and foreign law will be very important in our discussion of how to think about unsettled issues in our legal system. it is my hope that judges everywhere will continue to do this. but in the hearing -- >> i do not believe that foreign law should be used to -- to determine the results under constitutional law or american law, except where american law directs. >> reporter: robert alt is with the conservative heritage foundation. >> she seemed willing to reject statements that she had made time and time again in these hearings, and, you know, one wonders, you know, where the truth lies. >> reporter: sotomayor responded

to calls for clarification on her statements pre and postnomination saying this -- >> that my record talks about who i am as a person, what i believe in, and my judgments and my opinion that following the rule of law is the foundation of our system of justice. >> reporter: and even republicans, like senator lindsey graham, say her record is fairly mainstream and not one of an activist judge. sotomayor, rather than defending previous statements, has moderated her -- her views, moving to the conventional middle. and it appears that instead of getting into a large philosophical debate, she simply agreed with her critics on many issues. kitty? >> thanks very much, lisa sylvester. thank you, lisa. a federal court judge in phoenix has stepped down from a racial profiling case that has attracted nationwide attention. now, the judge recused herself from the case against maricopa county sheriff joe arpaio.

the defense asked her to step down in february. now, the judge, mary mur gismt a, is the twin sister of janet murguia. who is the president of the national council of la raza, it's a hispanic advocacy group. la raza has been vocal in its opposition of sheriff arpaio's tactics. coming up -- democrats launch an investigation into a secret cia program to kill al qaeda terrorists. also, president obama makes another push for his health care plan, even as some democrats continue to question this plan and its cost. we'll have all of that, and much more, with our esteemed political panel, next.

well, joining me now are three of the country's best political minds. we're joined by james taranto from opinionjournal.com. and keli goff, democratic strategist and cnn contributor, robert zimmerman. , you know, we really have to start with the whole cia flap and, you know, the program that actually never got off the ground. robert, what is your thinking on this? >> well, the program was never fully operational. >> right. >> so, that means in terms of cia or bureaucratic speak, we don't know. but the bottom line this is a policy that neither party wants to pursue. if you notice, the controversy has pretty much quieted down. but when director leon panetta went before the intelligence

committee and informed them that vice president cheney and obviously through president bush instructed the cia to withhold information from the congress, then it became an issue that, very frankly, our congress can't ignore. and, in fact, what bush and cheney did to compromise the cia, these are brave men and women putting their lives on the line for us, by -- by insisting the cia withholding information, truly did compromise the agency. this is an investigation that has to take place. >> but, you know, we had a top republican on the committee, pete hofstra, called it little more than republican theater. >> they may want to make it a political issue, but let's remember the agency itself was compromised by bush and cheney when they were instructed to, in fact, violate the law and not disclose to congress that the programs that were either in the planning stages or partially operational. >> what do you think? >> the funny thing is when i first heard the story, my reaction was, okay, and at this point, like a lot of americans,

nothing from the bush/cheney era of the white house surprises us, frankly speaking. i'm sure the investigation is going to happen. i saw that representative reyes from my home city of texas is leading the charge that way. but there's so many other issues on the table. this is obviously an important one. but a lot of americans, still not knowing what's going to happen with the health care and the economy, this becomes yet another thing to criticize the bush white house on. you may agree, but it's sort of like, what next, you know? >> james? >> well, if congress is going to investigate something, why aren't they investigating why the al qaeda terrorists are still alive? and the answer is this isn't -- this isn't about the cia. this is about cya. this is about nancy pelosi placating her critics on the left who were shocked to learn that she knew something about enhanced interrogation techniques years ago after 9/11. and i -- you know, she made this accusation that the cia lied, and this is about -- >> you know, james, this is not about talking points and this is not about partisanship or

political spin. this is about the director of the central intelligence agency going before the intelligence committees and saying the cia was ordered to withhold important information from the congress. and we have co-equal branches of the government and there's a constitutional obligation that congress has and that our system of government has. obviously no one wants to get into this, like you say, kelly, when there are so many other pressing issues, but the rule of law comes first. >> i disagree. i don't think nancy pelosi's motives were so high-minded here. >> this isn't about nancy pelosi. >> let's get to another point that everyone is worried about. just a couple hours ago president obama delivered a comment on health care reform. let's listen to a comment that he made. >> i understand there may be a temptation among some to think that discrimination is no longer a problem in 2009. and i believe that overall, there probably has never been less discrimination in america than there is today.

i think we can say that. make no mistake if we step back from this challenge at this moment, we are consigning our children to a future of skyrocketing premiums and crushing deficits. there's no argument about that. if we don't achieve health care reform, we cannot control the costs of medicare and medicaid, and we cannot control our long-term debt and our long-term deficits. >> there it is. that's the health care reform. the previous one was from the naacp speech earlier in the week. let's talk about this. your thoughts on the whole health care debate which is now really heating up. >> and it's incredibly important to see this debate heat up. you know, the conventional wisdom out of washington is the that the health care program's in trouble and it's collapsing. yet when you look at the facts and you speak to members of the hill -- members of congress on the hill, there were five committees dealing with the health care legislation. three of those committees have already voted out health care legislation. the ama, which doesn't rem all doctors certainly but certainly is a powerful voice that killed

health care reform under trumeen and, in fact, under clinton is, in fact, are supporting this as is the american nurses association and the aarp. there's real progress here, the problem is what costs the american people more, no action or taking action? >> there was a cbs poll from last month that i'm sure you recall, show 72% of americans support health care reform. but your own network, cnn's poll, from a couple weeks ago, said 1 in 5 are not sure about the president's specific plan. 1 in 5 say they don't know if their family will benefit under the president's problem. that's a problem. there's a big deal of disconnect there and that's a problem. >> well, the president finds himself in an awkward position because he came into office promising to give free health care to everyone. 50 million uninsured or however many there are. and that will cost a lot of money. we've already spent $800 billion on the stimulus that didn't work and so there's concern about high spending. so now he has to shift focus to cost control. what does that mean?

it means rationing and waiting lists. it means when i had my hip replaced, a year ago, resurfaced, i would have to wait. it means that i would still be in excruciating pain right now. >> president obama doesn't want to tax employer-provided health care benefits to pay for this but max baucus says we absolutely have to. let's listen to a comment. >> basically the president does not -- is not helping this. he does not want the exclusion, that's making it difficult. >> you know, this is just very disturbing. how are you going to pay for this? >> it's not disturbing. it's a real issue that has to be addressed, and i think it's very important that we have a partisan debate going on. it's interesting, not senator max baucus alone, but republican conservatives, senator lamar alexander also advocates taxing employer benefits which is a cause of great concern to many of us. but the fact that we have a real bipartisan discussion going on to address the health care

crisis in this country is a healthy and good thing. >> today, joe biden, i believe it was yesterday, joe biden said to a group of members to the aarp that our nation's going to go bankrupt if we don't address the health care crisis. the problem with that statement is he failed to explain how spending a trillion dollars will keep the country from going bankrupt. i think the president has a real problem on his hands. >> we'll have to leave it there. i guarantee you will be talking about health care next week. coming up, the discredited rumor that won't go away. questions about president obama's place of birth and his eligibility to be president.

is, again, raising controversy over president obama's place of birth. now, the major challenged his deployment orders claiming that president obama wasn't born in the united states, and that renders his orders illegal. now, a former presidential candidate allen keys also filed a lawsuit challenging the president's right to hold the office, and a hearing on that suit will be held on monday. now, questions about the president's place of birth have been asked and answered many times since before the election, and the president's birth certificate says he was born in

hawaii. the state's republic governor and other officials have backed that up. cnn has fully investigated the issue, found no basis for the questions about the president's birthplace, but the controversy lives on, especially on the internet. joining me now is orlie tice and she represents the army major and filed the keys' lawsuit. former presidential candidate allen keys joins us, and on the other side, john avilon who is a columnist with thedailybeast.com and errol louis, a columnist, and also a cnn and attorney. before we start, bear with me a bit. there's overwhelming evidence that proves that his birth certificate is legal. if you'll bear with me, i'll run through a little bit of the evidence and then we can get to this discussion. the annenberg political fact check which is a nonpartisan group, went to chicago to view

the birth certificate last year and they released photos and this statement. the republican governor of hawaii, linda lingle, on record, she says obama was indeed born in her state and we should note, she did support john mccain, so weal have a copy of the "honolulu advertiser" the newspaper, august 13th, and the "highway star-bulletin" august 4th, also announcing barack obama's birth. also october last year, the director of the hawaii demt of health wrote a letter stating i have personally seen and verified that the hawaii state department of health has senator obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

politityfact.com reissued the results from the investigation in june of last year and they say, quote, since we published obama's birth certificate, questions about its authenticity have been frequent and fierce. after reviewinging the evidence, we are confident of our rulings. this is the last one, thanks for bearing with me. the white house press briefing this week, reporter from the world net daily pressed again about the birth certificate, white house press secretary robert gibbs said this following comment -- >> do all of your listeners and the listeners throughout this country the service to which any journalist owes those listeners, and that is the pursuit of the nobel truth, and the noble truth is that the president was born in hawaii, a state of the united states of america. >> now, allen keys, you've been patient letting me get through all that, but what more do you need to be convinced? >> some evidence.

and the evidence is something that president obama is strenuously blocking. you asked me to prove that i was born in new york city at the time and hospital i say, and i will give you a certified copy of a full birth certificate with a doctor's signature, the hospital, and everything else. i won't direct you to some photograph on the internet and a bunch of hearsay statements that would not be accepted as evidence in any court of law. and so the very simple question is, why spend $800,000 to $1 million blocking the birth certificate? blocking records at school and college that would in any way have a bearing on the question -- >> all right, allan -- >> both of his birth and claims in his life. why is he going to all this trouble, if as they say, the matter is resolved? can't be resolved by a bunch of statements and assertions. >> orlie, we have to cheap this quicker, but please tell me -- >> okay. obama never provided his birth

certificate. what he provided is certification of live birth that was issued last year that does not have the name of the doctor, does not have the name of the hospital, does not have any signatures. you note that hawaii has a statute, 338, that allows foreign-born children of hawaiian residence to get hawaiian birth certificates. did you know that? >> errol, i would like you to -- >> listen, i think -- i think what we have here is a case where under the guise of saying, well, we can't trust whether or not he should be president because we don't have the evidence, it's actually the reverse. these are folks, and there are a number of them, and some of them are raising money like "world net daily" which is a scam, selling all kinds of bumper stickers and stuff like that, and i don't know what they are taking in the way of legal fees. they're raising legal fees from across the country and the reality is they don't accept that the president is the president, and, therefore, they work backward and there will never be enough proof to satisfy

them. >> john, i have to -- >> you've offered a mountain of evidence in addition to two birth announcements. that's a pretty deep conspiracy. we this pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism. ambassador keyes says that president obama has called him a radical communist. you on your blog have repeatedly referred to the administration as gestapo. >> orly, i have to ask you to let everyone have their say before you respond to it. i believe we're out of time. i'm sorry to say. great discussion. >> let me say one more thing, in order to be the president, you have to have appearance that are citizens. obama's father was never a citizen of this country. >> we have to call it -- we have to call it there.

i'm sorry. thank you very much, all of you, for joining in this very lyely debate. coming up at the top of the hour we have campbell brown. campbell? >> hey there, kitty. lively debate indeed. just ahead, new developments in the custody case of michael jackson's three children. there was a hearing with a judge a short time ago. we'll have details. the case of amanda knox, of course, the young american woman who is on trial for murder in italy. testimony now nearly complete. tonight we're looking at whether her family is hurting or helping her case. those stories and, of course, "the mash-up" with all the other news of the day at the top of the hour. kitty? >> thanks very much, campbell. we did hope to have steve forbes joins us last night, but because of the president's speech, we did run out of time. so steve forbes will join us with his book, "power, ambition and glory." a marine dedicates his life to helping fellow wounded

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and now "heroes," and tonight we honor corporal dan lasco. >> i was actually ended up swearing in on september 11th of 2001, the morning of, and then, you know, found out that it was a terrorist attack. and we most likely would be going to war. >> reporter: for dan lasco, a recent high school graduate, there would be no turning back. >> my dad was, like, if you want to go to school, you know, we'll pay for it. we'll take care of everything. i told him, i made this commitment. >> reporter: less than three years later he was headed to fight the war in afghanistan. in april of 2004, corporal lasco and 15 other marines headed out a on a routine patrol. they were ambushed. his vehicle struck two ieds. >> when the ieds went off, when the explosion went off, there was gunfire and gunfights going on. i just ducked my head, i knew, i

looked down, and my left foot was pretty much mangled. i couldn't -- and i was covered in -- i was covered in blood. and i knew i was injured. i had shrapnel around my head area, back there. >> reporter: corporal lasco spent the next year in a hospital. after eight operations, he lost the lower part of his leg, but he never lost his commitment to serve. when he was injured, he received financial support from the semper phi fund, now corporal lasco is racing to give back. >> from 2006 to now, i competed in over -- over 30 races nationwide. to raise money, to raise awareness. to, you know, tell these injured guys coming back today, you know, that life is not over. >> reporter: corporal lasco is the first marine to be accepted into the wounded warrior program which hires wounded veterans to jobs in the house of representatives. he is currently working in the office of representative allison schwartz, as aas