"reliable sources." i know you're going to spend a lot of time on the life and legacy of this man, time cover from back in the day, walter cronkite. >> before i let you go, what was it that cronkite told you, the former a.p. guy, whether your chances of success in television? >> i didn't know walter but met him on a couple of occasions one at a cnn town hall where we had a disagreement and he came over to ask me about my background and he was a former united press guy, i'm a former a.p. guy, he said because of the wire service training i would probably do okay in the business. >> example of his good judgment. thanks john king. a day we hoped would never come, though we knew it must. walter cronkite was the preem knit journalist of his time in. he had an enormous impact on national and world events. i was fortunate to have got tonight know him but he represents an era that has slipped away, an era of mass audiences, before cable, internet, bloggers and twitters before much of the country waited for headline at 6 oofrmg

30. when the news business was held in high esteem, when the anchor of the cbs evening news could be called the most trusted man in america. in mourning the 92-year-old man who died friday we're mourning an america that has faded into history. >> good evening from the krgs news control ken ter in new york, walter cronkite reporting. >> reporter: a fixture at the political convention and he delivered the sad news to the nation on november 22, 1963. >> from dallas, texas, the flash apparently official, president kennedy died at 1:00 p.m. central standard time, 2:00 eastern standard time. some 38 minutes ago. >> reporter: in 1968, cronkite returned from vietnam with a verdict that made johnson feel he had lost the battle for public opinion. >> to say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only

realistic, if unsatisfactory conclusion. >> reporter: cronkite was a huge booster of the space program. and was there when apollo 11 landed on the moon in 1969. >> the eagle has landed. >> thanks a lot. >> oh, boy! >> thank you. >> boy! wally, say something, i'm speechless. >> reporter: when the watergate scandal was unfolding before richard nixon's re-election, cronkite devoted two-thirds to the news explaining its complexities. >> at first it was called the watergate caper, five men apparently caught in the act of burglarizing and bugging democratic headquarters in washington. >> reporter: he became a newspaper columnist late in life and on this program, six years ago i asked cronkite about his increasingly liberal writing. if you have been a liberal, does that mean -- when you were anchoring the cbs evening news did that affect the way you

looked at the world and story selection? >> i don't think, howard, it had any doubt, without any doubt, it's affected how i looked at the world. but i do not think it affected my reporting on the air. >> joining us from santa barbara, bob sheaf, host of "face the nation" and former anchor of the cbs evening news, new york, the executive producer of cbs' "48 hours" in washington, bernard shaw, former cnn anchor, of course and former washington correspondent for cbs news. let me start with you, bob schieffer. there have been a lot of good network anchors, including you. what were the qualities that set cronkite apart? >> well, number one, he just loved the news. number two, he let nothing get in the way of the news. with walter, the news always came first. the cbs evening news with walter cronkite was about news. it was not about walter cronkite. people understood that.

he came through to people. the other part, howie, and the part that i think was most important, walter was just the same off camera as he was on camera. he loved the news. he loved to talk about it. he sounded exactly like he did on television, and everything about him was just the same, that, too, came through. >> he was not a showman, not flashy in the style so many today's television personalities. he was also very competitive, wasn't he, even when he became a big success? >> oh, he loved a scoop and loved no scoop better than when it was his scoop. he thought broadcasting was about getting the news. you know, i was listening to that sound bite there, did people think his fiphilosophy impacted on the way he covered the news. with him it was just finding out what happened. that was what drove walter cronkite. it wasn't ideology or some sort of an agenda. he just wanted to find out and

find out before other people. he was the most curious person i have ever known. if walter saw a car wreck, it would be the first car wreck he had ever seen in his life, he'd want to know all about it. he'd want to check it out. he was amazing. >> a very old fashioned approach. susan, back when you were a kid, you joined the cbs evening news, was it intimidating to be dealing with walter cronkite? >> you know i don't think it was intimidating but it was awesome. you know, i was 19 years old and working part time for cbs, hired two weeks after the watergate break-in and as bob said a man who wanted to find out the truth and working under walter though we were in washington and walter was in new york, you had a central voice. you knew you were on a team and the team was about finding out the truth. i was in college and obviously most people are dating, i was going to garages around washington thinking we could find deep throat. i was staking out the attorney general of the united states.

quite frankly i didn't care about dating because i was on team walt somewhere how great was that? >> i hope you got around to dating. >> i did. you know, my husband's probably watching, so i'll give him the nod. but he was a cbser. the reality is a young person in the newsroom was that there was a mission and bob was really right, it was about finding out the truth. walter was on and off camera the same. it was very exciting when walter came down to washington to anchor special report after special report with bob and other reporters. i can remember one watergate where indeed the transcripts had come out and everybody was assigned a role and they virtually read the parts of n nixon and the key players in watergate. it was a dynamic time. you understood the pow. >> let me turn to bernie shaw. when you were at cbs, whether cronkite was a tough task master and i want to ask you about the

letter he sent you when you were about to join the network. >> he was very, very tough about that was part of the cbs culture. reporters coming into bureau, rookies, we had a responsibility and we had standards to live up to and to uphold. cronkite and i go back to when i was in the marine corps 1961 in hawaii and i called his hotel 34 times and he returned my call. we had a lobby meeting. he could only spare 20 minutes because he and betsy had a formal to do go that night. 20 minutes elapsed to 40 minutes. we were friends every since. and i didn't say anything to him when i went from westinghouse to being hired by bill small in the washington borough for cbs. >> a great picture of all of the angers including you. there's the letter. >> this is the letter which cronkite said, congratulations on joining cbs. i know you're sophisticated enough not to let petty thing as

know you and the last graph, i look forward to seeing you on the cbs evening news. three weeks later when i had a piece on the cronkite show you could see the small smile curling at the edge of his mouth. could i go back just briefly to the point about walter's uncontrollable curiosity? january 1994, i was in my hotel bed in los angeles, the chandelier started shaking, the tv popped out of the console, and i knew what was going on, it's a major earthquake. i reached for the phone and called cnn's hot line in atlanta, i was on the air in eight minutes. the phone rang again, my boss, i want you on camera on the air reporting on your earthquake. i hung up, pulling up my pants, phone rings again, hello? bernie, are you all right? yes. walter. how did you know i was here? i've been listening to you for the past 45 minutes. he had a taxicab, drove to my hotel, came to the lobby, rang me up, said let's go around and

inspect the damage. >> wow. >> i said i would like to but i've been ordered on the air. >> 24-hour cable. bob schieffer, i've been talking to people in last 36 hours realing that probably more than half of the country is too young to have seen cronkite in his anchor role. we live in an all-news age where everything comes every 12 seconds. explain to people why walter cronkite and chet huntley and brinkley were so dominant in the '60s and '70s. >> for one thing the only two places you could get news on the day that it happened on a national scale was at cbs and at nbc at that point, when walter first came into his prominence. abc was not even a player. so you had very limited choices on the dial, that was one of the reasons. the other reason that people came to know walter is, walter was there through very traumatic events in our history. of course there at assassination of john kennedy and the much happier occasion when we first

set foot on the moon. walter was with us all those years through the good times and the bad times. and that's one of the reasons that people really came to trust him. >> right. >> the thing i go back to, though, is there were no bells and whistles on walter cronkite. he was just a reporter. he was a reporter's reporter. people knew that and they understood that. and they appreciated it. >> bob schieffer we appreciate you joining us. we'll let you go. and joining us now by phone is don hewitt from his home in bridge hampton, new york. you were the producer before your 60 minutes fame before you helped launch that program. you were the producer of the cbs evening news in 1963, when it expanded from 15 minutes to a half an hour. how revolutionary is that? is that something cronkite pushed for? >> yes, he pushed very hard for it. and it was not a difficult sell. i think the corporation realizes

it was time to do a half hour of news every night. >> you've dealt with a lot of huge egos in your long career, mike wall list and all of the other stars you've worked with. did cronkite reach a point, he was famous and on the cover of "time" where he got a little full of himself? >> no, he never got full of himself. america was full of walter cronkite. walter was very modest about himself and maybe the best news guy i ever worked with. >> susan, you talked a little bit about the cbs coverage of watergate. you were there the night that richard nixon resigned august 8, 1974. what was the atmosphere like? you have a souvenir from that evening? >> i do. bob mentioned this before about walter's coverage of big events. i mean, what happened night nixon resigned, we had many

specials but a prime time special, and i was one of the researchers in washington. you know helping walter with copy and info, and at the end of the night everybody was kind of taken and a little upset but really excited that we had been there and this historic moment had been recorded. and walter cavalierly threw the script into the garbage can and i picked it out of the trash and said, walter don't you want to save it? can i ship it to new york? he said, no, they'll make a transcript. i'll hold it up. i fished out of the tras trash can this cronkite script. the writer was charlie west, initials are here. walter's own corrections are made in pen. and it goes on, close to 20 pages long. i'll read you just a hair of a line from the end where he says, as president ford said in his acceptance speech, our long national nightmare is over. our constitution works. our great republics a government of laws and not of men. here the people rule.

this is walter cronkite, cbs news, washington, good night. >> right. >> i felt like walter took us through moments of history and this was part of history. >> absolutely. >> and so i think that's why, you flow, i held on to it. but it kind of feels really important. i hold it, and when i talk to a young person coming into my office i always pull out my cronkite script. >> a great thing to pull out. let me turn to bernie. a sound bite from cronkite interview some years ago with larry king about cable news and its culture of instant news. take a look. okay. we haven't got that quite ready. we'll have it served up. the reason i'm asking you this question, you became one of the first employees of cnn in 1980, the advent of cable news, i think that we -- we can take a look. i'll finish my question on the other side. >> it's good to have 24-hour news. i think that's important. people can indeed tune in any hour of the day, any minute of the day, and get caught up on what's going on.

what is not so important, however, is the first news. i'd like to see us back up a bit and spend a little time thinking about a story before we put it on the air. >> i didn't think he was huge fan of cable news. i think he preferred the old fashion preparatory, produced package news. >> i understand the requirement for reflection, but when sitting at this anchor desk and you've got a breaking news story and on the air for three or four hours you don't have time for reflection. but what you're bringing to the task is jeff journalistist skill you acquired, the ability to listen, the ability to write, the ability to edit, and you're doing this live on worldwide television. it helps to have experience. >> absolutely. don hewitt, you were there, among other important historical events, for the moon landing. we showed the clip earlier of cronkite saying, oh, boy, his enthusiasm came across. what was it like being with

cronkite during those space missions? >> let me use this moment to tell you my favorite walter cronkite story. john glenn's mother arrived at cape canaveral before it was called cape kennedy, to watch her son go into orbit and she was asked, what would you like to see, mrs. glenn? and she said, i'd like to see walter cronkite. and that knocked all of us out. >> really tells you a lot. let me add my thoughts. one of the reason cronkite loomed to large is most people don't trust the media these days. a lot of self-inflicted wounds in the news business, and cronkite reigned in an era when journalists could be trusted, still that sense of journalist got it right, tried to get it right. things are they different today. let me thank you very much, bernie, susan, don on the phone, bob schieffer earlier. coming up, connie chung will

join the discussion. walter cronkite in 1970 bidding farewell on the last night of one of his competitors over at nbc, chad huntley. >> he leads the daily broadcast scene, a giant departs the stage for journalism and ourselves. we hate to see him go. but that's the way it is friday, july 311, 1970. >> good-bye and good luck, walter. >> cbs evening news with walter cronkite.

tonight, this broadcast originates from outside the united states for the first

time. this wall was begun 2300 years ago. a weeklong meeting in the kremlin with leaders of the only nation whose power rivals that of the united states. >> joining us now as we continue to talk about the impact and legacy of walter cronkite, from state line, nevada, connie chung, former co-anchor of the "cbs evening news" and a correspondent for walter cronkite. in new york, a former executive producer of the "cbs evening news" with walter cronkite, and here in washington, daniel shore, former cbs news diplomatic correspondent, now senior news analyst for national public radio. connie chung, you started at cbs in the '70s, you were a young person. was everyone a little bit afraid of cronkite? >> was everyone a little afraid? >> yeah. >> oh, yes, of course i was, because we -- my family grew up in washington, d.c., we used to watch uncle walter every night, after dinner. but you know, i always dreamed that maybe someday i could work

on the "cbs evening news" with walter cronkite and suddenly i was there. it was very intimidating. but what made it all easy, in many ways, was that waller was so nice. he was a very, very cordial, kind person. so when he met all of the little people, which we were, he was very, very nice to us. and i think the key with walter was that he was normal. you know full well anchor people are not normal. >> right. they have different kind of gene. he got to the top without being abnormal. a different structure. sheafer told us cronkite was the same way off the air as well as on the air. >> he was. no, but let me tell you one thing that when i became co-anchor and i actually sat in half of his chair, as co-anchor of the evening news he called me up in his way with that memorable voice, connie, he

said, i have one bit of advice for you. he said, be yourself. and that was key. because he was himself. >> his voice, of course, has provided the lead-in every night to katie couric, which cbs will end that in the wake of his death. you were lead correspondent at cbs during watergate, nixon white house put a lot of pressure on the media. >> especially on cbs. >> especially on cbs. how did cronkite deal with that? >> well, cronkite talked to us one day back in object 1972 and at that point the watergate story was basically a newspaper story, starting with "the washington post." and he decided that television had to make its bow on this, he gave orders to have several correspondents, including myself, take -- use a lot of information which we got from the newspapers but going to put it into television terms and he took two packages, one 14

minutes, just going over all of the ground of what happened in watergate, break-in, and owl of the rest of it. >> we showed a little bit of that earlier. boy that gave the story visibility. >> yes. kay graham, publisher of "the washington post" said this wasn't a story until cbs made it a story. >> sammy, how was in t. that cronkite could sign off every night with "and that's the way it is" what if that's the way it wasn't? how was he able to make the claim? >> because he was stubborn, that's why. the then-president of cbs news was very much against that tag line and they had infinite, infinite discussions about what to do about it on the grounds that it wasn't the way it is, that in 22 minutes of editorial time we weren't telling the world or people of the way it was. but cronkite, who just kind of stumbled into that line and insisted he had to have a line,

just stuck to his guns although at one point he wavered in the wake of the dick salant onslaught. >> interesting, probably the line most associated with him now. connie chung, after he left the anchor chair, walther was not a fan of running health stories and feature stories. too much time taken up with your pocketbook and mine, your garbage can and mine. was he so devoted to hard news that he was stuck in the past as television evolved? >> i was with him 100% in that respect. he -- i don't think so. i think that he didn't like that the pedestrian d pedestrian delum swung away from straight, hard news. as you noted, with john king, he was a wire service reporter. he wanted to report the news directly and straight. he said, i'm not a pundit, i'm not an analyst.

see, he understood news to be something that he reported straight unbalanced -- i mean balanced and unbiased. and so, i think that once he saw all of the opinions on the news, on cable, what have you, it really offended him. he was not in favor of anything that we see today. he was -- he was confined in his mind to straight news. and i respected that totally. >> that's true, connie. >> howard, one other thing -- >> go ahead. >> connie, it musting said, in spite of the fact he said hard news, all the news all of the time, the fact of the matter was some of his most telling moments moments where he showed his own emotion, one thing when president kennedy died and he had to take off his glasses and say, president kennedy is dead. when it came to real emotion, even, for example, on the moon walk he's there, oh, boy, oh,

boy. oh boy is not a neutral thing to say. >> i think the key, howard, it was not manufactured. i think that he was himself, no one else. and i i think with many of the people on the air he perceived them as creating an image, creating smiles or tears for the sake of television. >> that is shocking accusation. shocking accusation that people on television would do that. i want to play a piece of tape for you first showing walter cronkite's fining sign-off in the evening news 1981 as he made way for dan rather, and then a question that i asked him on this program about his decision to step down. let's roll that. >> and that's the way it is friday march 6, 1981. >> you stepped down from the "cbs evening news" after what seemed like just an eternity at the relatively young age of 65. any regrets about that looking back? >> yes, yeah. if i had known i was going to be in such good health so long, i

would not have stepped down at that time. >> sandy, walter's being diplomatic there. cbs forced him to retire, right? >> no, that's not quite right. i mean conjunction of many events, walter, for several years, up to his retirement, talked to the officers at cbs news about retiring. he was very anxious that he go out as the undefeated champion in ratings sense. coincident with that was the negotiation go on with the emerging abc news operation trying to seduce dan rather away from cbs. >> right. >> and all of these things came together while a fellow named bill leonard was president of cbs news. so, there's a lot of room for interpretation. there's a lot of gray area. but i don't think it's correct to say that cbs forced him out. >> though he certainly had hoped to play a larger role in cbs after he stepped down and didn't get on the air very much. briefly, sandy, tell me a story that you worked on with him where he was sort of the driving

force. give us an insiblt inght into b the scenes. >> water gate the most dramatic. he came in one day full of fury about the if that it was "the washington post" new york timings story, namely "the washington post", and it didn't make any sense to anybody outside of the beltway in washington because every day there was a new episode and the papers didn't relate it to yesterday or discuss what was going to happen tomorrow. and he just pounded the desk and said, let's put together an abc, beginning a middle, end, of what we know. the fact of the the matter is, though he devoted a total of 20, 21 minutes to the story in 2 episodes, there was not one new fact in that whole arrangement we put on the air, not one fact that hadn't been published before -- >> yet that's what television does it makes a story understandable to a mass audience. connie chung, a minute left. you had observations you wanted to make earlier? let me toss the floor back to

you. >> when you were asking in the beginning if we were scared of him, you know, when he had the title of managing editor of the "cbs evening news," and he took that very seriously and we took it seriously because he literally looked at our reports and edited them and he would call us and, you know, find -- ask us questions about our report to make sure that they -- that the reports were accurate. he called up a story for me, he said, he wanted me to do a story on vice president nelson rockefeller, vice president under ford, and then afterwards there was one key thing that walter always did. if he liked your report, he called you up and said that was a great report, you did a good job. no matter where you were in the world, he would find the time, pick up the phone, and give you an at a boy. >> i like the view of behind the scenes because so many knew him

as a figure behind the desk. thanks very much for joining us. coming up notice second half of "reliable sources" -- media declared the sonia sotomayor hearings a bit of a snooze but does a supreme court nomination take a backseat because of no fireworks. terry moran on why late night news is beating dave and conan. so that's why, you know we've adjusted

back to "reliable sources" in a moment. first, update on a news story breaking. the pentagon identified the american soldier shown in a videotape posted on the internet late saturday by the taliban. private first class 23-year-old from idaho. listed as missing captured two days later. his parents moments ago released a statement saying, quote we hope and pray for our son's safe return to comrades and then to our family and we appreciate all of the support and expressions of sympathy shown to us by family members, friends and others across the nation. please continue to keep bowe in thoughts why prayers. we're saying we strongly condemn the public exploitation of a prisoner. it's a violation of

international law of the war and we continue to use all resources available to us to return this soldier to safety. we'll bring you further developments. no for now, back to howard kurtz and "reliable sources." the makings of a classic washington showdown, sonia sotomayor in the hot seat with republican senators poised as to whether she was a wise latina or qualified to sit on the supreme court. a lifetime appointment hanging in the balance. the media's interest, let's say it wasn't quite at michael jackson levels. >> wise latina woman come? to those who may be bothered by that, what do you say? >> i regret that i have offended some people. >> reporter: almost from the start, the cable networks kept breaking away from the confirmation hearings to have their own pundits talk about the hearing. by the second day of

questioning, the senators and witness were getting less air time. by the third day, only cnn was still dipping into the hearings. but there was no shortage of commentators serving up opinions about the woman who would be the high court's first hispanic justice and her interrogators. >> i think she survived. i think she seemed competent, certainly not brilliant. >> i think if you are looking for somebody with judicial temperment, boy did we see it on display. >> the seinfeld of confirmation hearings, a show about nothing. >> i admit to having another one of the matthews thrills today. >> an affirmative action appointment by the president of the u.s. >> did the sotomayor hearings get coverage they deserve? joining us in washington, terry moran, co-anchor of abc's "night line," contributor editor at national review and senior editor for "slate" magazine. why did some consider the hearings something of a snooze?

>> judge sotomayor did something that the white house gave her told her to do be as judicious as possible, not cause raucous, not make any waves. but beyond that i think having covered a number of these over the years, what makes supreme court confirmation hearing explode, if you will, in the news is the sense that ordinary americans have that they've got a question as to whether or not they'd get a fair hearing if they walked into the nominee's courtroom. and judge sotomayor was judicious. >> you have written that these hearing were a misses opportunity for both parties. were they a misses opportunity for the media as well? >> i think absolutely, howie. i think that one of the things that i found most striking, sit in hearing room, was that you have people who were talking to their audiences on five platforms, twittering, live blogging, putting up audio, doing analysis, this was covered in ways that alito and roberts were not covered and yet i don't know that we added value at all.

as you point out by day three you started to feel sort of stupid twittering live, blogging, analyzing something that was in effect watching paint dry. >> jim, you say it's hard to believe sotomayor when she retreated from the wise latina comment and some other issues. weren't the media skeptical of her testimony when she did that? >> i think certainly questioned a heck of a lot of about it in the hearing. it comes down to a question do you believe -- anyone can have a slip of the tongue. again and again six times they have the same slip of the tongue in writing. after a while a person says when lindsay graham is among those who gets the sense of i forgive you or this -- >> what i'm saying is, to the extent that she was retreating a little bit, at least tactically, don't you note that? >> you'd like to cross-examine them. she, herself, is not available for press interviews the senators are surrogates of the

media. >> we have not been able to talk to her at all. is there an oversimplification that takes place? this woman has had hundreds of rulings, over 17 years on the bench and boiled down to the wise latina comment and the frank ricci case. >> always flashpoints in any nomination, whether a speech or a case and television will focus on those. but there is a difference, i think, she was trying to assert that i think people got, there's a difference between making a speech and ruling in a case, especially for somebody who is, by her nature, judicious. one of the things that might be happening here is that it's possible that the heroic age of the supreme court and the supreme court confirmation battles is coming to a close. president obama and judge sotomayor come from a lib rat perspective where they don't want to see courts ruling from on high and being in the vanguard of social change. obama has said that before. sotomayor has said that before.

they're about consolidating progressive gains rather than using the court as a heroic instrument of vast social change. >> which creates a less dramatic story for the media. there's a serious and interesting question about whether judges can be fully objective or whether influenced by their life experiences, their ethnicity and all of that. the media, it seemed to ming to reduce to this empathy, the buzz word, empathy, will she let empathy affect the way she rules. >> so interesting, howie, i was listening to the segment on walter cronkite, he said in one sentence, something that i think is sort of not very controversial principle, of course, my politics influenced the way i look at the world, don't influence the way i report the news, right? he said that and we all nodded and said, right. that was the question at the heart of the sotomayor hearings, how can it be that she can have ideas and politics, how can she cop to the notion that experience matters, that she has

empathy for some plaintiffs and still be fair? it's interesting to me that we expect it when it comes to cronkite. it's uncontroversial when he says it. when she says it, it's a different matter entirely. i think the empathy language, we saw the rise and fall of the empathy this week. i think obama introduced it as a way to try to talk about what was missing from the john roberts court. we saw her more or less throw empathy under the bus this week when she said, i don't -- not only do i disavow that motion, if it means judging from the heart, i'm running from it. >> let's me turn to jim, because my time is short. sotomayor clearly mouthed a lot of platitudes about applying the law. roberts did something simglar to his hearings and became one of the most conservative members. >> aggressively conservative. >> compassion nate conservative. it's save to say the play book is establishes for every single supreme court nominee coming out when there's precedent say my

gut decision is guyed by precedent. when there's no precedent, i can't prejudge the issue when it comes before me in the case, smile. >> another washington issue that is just breaking. we'll be back.

we're back talking about the sotomayor hearings. terry moran, the most interesting moment i thought when senator graham said some of the thing you say bug the hell out of me about made me think, is in television terms, ha r. hearing boring if there's no firework, no sharp exchanges. >> sharp exchanges, no question will drive a news story. the challenge for television journalists in cover the hearing is making the substance sexy. and you can do that because after all, we're talking about our law, our fundamental law, our values. it's there. and viewers will respond. it's how you tell it and no question how it's sharpened and focused in the exchanges. >> of course, adding to the lack of suspense, everybody knows sotomayor will be confirmed, so there's no drama. cable daytime ratings were down mostly during these hearings. less than the average news audience. in a way aren't the people overruling the media and saying we don't care that much? >> i think that's right.

i think that part of the problem is this is very complicated. sotomayor, herself, tried to make the case for why judges are different from legislators. you know, this isn't about her opinions, about the second amendment, it's not about her opinions about the fourth amendment. and i think by making that case she also took the notion that she gets a thumbs up or thumbs down vote on policy off the table, people came this wanting a brief sense of who she was. is she likable? does she have a crazy temper problem? she allayed those fears and people turned it off. >> she certainly didn't show a crazy temper program. put up a copy of the "newsweek" magazine, a cover story by ted kennedy in which he begins by talking about his battle with brain cancer, who cannot be sympathetic to a guy who has given so much of his life and the rest of it is a pitch for democratic version of health care. this week ki"newsweek" move tll? >> we have suspected this is a

ted kennedy message week in and week out in, now we have it straight from the source. >> this is a piece by kennedy. i wonder if they would give that platform to a republican senator. >> i think the new "newsweek" is trying to redefine itself in an era where the notion they're going to recap the week's events once a week is anti-deluvian. looking to make news on the news and get newsmakers, whether conservative leader or liberal leader, on big subjects. >> as far as making news, here we are talking about it. all right, jim, terry, stick around. thanks very much for joining us. when we come back, more with terry on his program ygs night line," the evolution of the broadcast from ted koppel era and way it's enjoying a rating surge. when ted koppel steppn

from "nightline" 3 1/2 years ago skeptics thought the program, born during the iranian hostage

crisis in 1979, might not be long for this world. koppel, after all, was the program. >> and this is "nightline". >> reporter: the network turned over the franchise to three co-anchors, terry moran, cynthia mcfadden and martin brashear. a funny thing happened on the way to oblivion, night line's ratings improved to the where the program overtook letterman, finishing second in its time slot. in the last three weeks "nightline" has beaten the tonight show as well. turn to terry moran. we'll get to journalism in a moment. was lynn know giving up the 11:30 a big break for "nightline". >> no question about it. when something like that happens leno dominated that time slot for so long that a lot of people are going to be saying, what else is on? they're going to be sampling and one of the things that's happening they're coming and seeing what's on "nightline". >> first picked as one of the three co-anchors, did you worry that the franchise might not

survive without koppel? >> sure. an incredible privilege and honor, frankly, to be working at a program called "nightline" built by ted koppel, who is one of my heros in journalism and a lot of people's heros in journalism. >> speculation that leno might come to abc and take over your time slot. >> sure. abc has to make business decisions well beyond my peg rate. inheriting a legacy from ted, with the kind of team that we have, do a program that would bring views are in, hold viewers and bring new viewers in, and redefine "nightline" for this time. >> you have interviewed, among others, president obama, gordon brown, tim geithner and elvis costello. >> it is fun. it's great that way. i think what we have done with "nightline" is keep it on the news, keep that promise that ted made 30 years ago, there's a big story "nightline" has the last word. it's where you want to be.

i think we do that extremely well. we also do hard news stuff. in the past week or so, the h1ni virus, sotomayor hearings, health care, and now more lighter fare. there are different things always i hope are on our better nights that are smart and different angle into trend stories or music stories or that kind of thing. >> i want to come back to the mix. big stories, one big story in last three weeks. take i look at night line's coverage of that story. >> new details in the death of michael jackson. >> good evening, cynthia mcfadden reporting from inside the famed never land ranch. >> michael jackson's father joe jackson speaking exclusively to abc news earlier. >> the jackson children. who will care for prince, paris, blanket, now that michael jackson is gone? >> "nightline" lives with jackson's death 12 out of 15 days. at a matter of news value, how can you defend that? >> michael jackson was one of

the most popular entertainers in american history a major cultural figure in terms of the nature of popular music and race in america. he was a i have odd man and a figure of intense fascination across the country. and i think that people were fascinated by somebody being cut down at that time in his life. >> come on, terry, after two weeks, when the story was not exactly having a new breaking development every single day, it's about ratings. you did great numbers with jackson, so the decision was made to stick with jackson, isn't that fair? >> well, no, that's actually not fair. that wasn't why we stayed with jackson. we stayed with jackson because it's a fascinating story. what we do every day is say what's the best thing we can do for viewers? what's the most interesting thing. >> that's interesting, that's interest. most interesting but not most important? >> people determine what's important based on what they think is interesting in their lives and we respond to that and lead it. we didn't just do jackson. we did the h1ni virus when no

one else did. we did sotomayor. president obama's health care. i'd say it's similar to what we did last year. last year the election was a focus of intense interest around the country. you put the election on ratings would go up. we did that. people came. they saw what we did on the election. and they i stad. >> you're telling me if the jackson decision to lead with jackson every night hadn't made you number one -- you were number one -- that you wouldn't have done it 12 out of 15 nights? >> depends on what was happening on the story. >> there was health care, the economy. program has done -- i looked over the list, you've done housing foreclosure, fossil discovery, iran, ex-or schism i the congo. >> what "nightline" is is a dai daily topical news magazine. one of the things about walter cronkite that i was thinking is

that, when he was the anchor, you just got one story, and everybody did it the same way. today, you can't do that. "nightline" is forced to take the stories of the day -- >> because cable news is all day. >> newses the atmosphere you breathe. >> bring something extra to the party. >> "nightline" does that. we do that on a creative way on better nights with big stories and stories that are interest, topical, off the news, but add value to views are. >> i like late night comedy but i like late night news. desperately seek sanford. how far did some journalists go to go with the missing senator.

business wanted and interview with mark sanford after he went missing. that is, before the governor resurfaced and admitting haven't affair with his argentine soul mate but some journalists were willing to do serious sucking up and others went negative. according to e-mails of the newspaper, a washington times staffer wrote sanford's office that, if you all want to speak on this publicly, you're welcome to washington times radio. you know that you will be on friendly ground here. john solomon says the note with poor choice of words was sent by a marking employee. fox news produce somewhere