loudobbstonight.com join me on the radio. go to loudobbs.com to get the local listings in your area for the lou dob shows. thank you for being with us. follow me on twitter.com. lou dobbs news. join us tomorrow. from all of us, thank you for watching, good night from new york. tonight, here are the questions we want answered. held hostage by the taliban. >> i'm afraid that i might never see them again. >> video of a captured american soldier released to the world. how did he fall into enemy hands? cnn's michael wehr takes us behind the scenes with the taliban. tonight a cnn exclusive. the oldest of 17 children whose parents were gunned down in their florida home -- >> we've shielded them as much as possible. >> how is she caring for her mostly adopted and special-needs brothers and sisters? why is the sheriff now talking

about a new motive in the murders? 40 years ago today, we put our footprint on the moon. nothing seemed impossible. so, now what? where should america's space program go from here? mars, anyone? good evening, everyone. those are our big questions tonight. we start, as always, with the matchup, the look at stories making an ill packet right now and the moments you might have missed. we're watching it all so you don't have to. top republicans launching an all-out war on president obama's health care reform hoping to kill momentum as congress barrels toward the august recess. leading the charge? party chairman michael steele, today, casting the president's plan as risky guesswork. here's the view from the right. >> president obama is conducting

an experiment. he's conducting a dangerous experiment, unnecessary experiment, a risky multitrillion dollar experiment, rushing this experiment, compelled to conduct this experiment, to experiment with our health care, experiment with the future. experiment, experiment, experimentation. it's time to put this experiment on the shelf. >> other republicans, sounding gleeful at the thought of killing health care reform. jim demint predicts if we're able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the president seized on that, as a craft political tussle, not a complex policy dispute. his press secretary, meanwhile, insisted things are moving along just fine. behold the white house on message. >> we can't afford the politics of delay and defeat. this isn't about politics. it's about a health care system that is breaking america's families. so let's fight our way through

the politics of the moment. let's pass reform by the end of this year. >> the president strongly believes that we can continue to make progress. i think the president believes that we're making constructive progress. we're continuing to make progress and the president hopes that continues. the president thinks we're making good progress. the president believes we can get this done by august. >> might have noticed while the press secretary said august for a deal, the president said end of the year. we noticed that, too. the president offering optimism, today, on the economy, saying we have edged away from the abyss. there is a long way to go. check out this elaborate analogy from his interview with pbs. >> the analogy i use time sometimes is we have this beautiful house and there was a fire. we came in and we had to hose it down. the fire is now out, but what we've discovered is we need some new pointing, the roof's leaking, the boiler's out. oh, by the way, we're way behind

on our mortgage. >> well, okay, then. afghanistan, tonight, the search on for the first american soldier to be taken prisoner of war. >> joint chiefs of staff, chairman admiral mike mullen said today the u.s. is doing absolutely everything it can to find private bowe bergdahl, taken castive by the taliban in afghanistan. >> 23-year-old bowe bergdahl captured three weeks ago, five months after he arrived in afghanistan. the video of him held hostage was released over the weekend. this is that video. >> i have may girlfriend who i was hoping to marry. i have my grandmas and grandpas. i have a very, very good family that i love back home in america. and i miss them every day that i'm gone. i miss them. and i'm afraid that i might never see them again. >> the taliban threatens to kill

him if foreign troops continuing targeting civilians, a tactor u.s. and nato forces deny. >> what's so amaizing, wolf, his family, friends, hometown in idaho kept the secret for weeks. >> a huge impact on this community because it's such a small one. today volunteers who aren't speaking out verbally were showing actions of support. they delivered yellow ribbons around the town of haleigh, along with signs asking for his safe return. >> if there's any way for our country or other countries to let him know that we're supporting him, we'll carry him as far as he needs to go. >> much more on this tonight. michael wehr has inside-knowledge of the extre extremists holding bowe bergdahl hostage. bloodiest month in afghanistan since the war began eight months ago. pentagon shipping more americans to the war zone for an expanded

mission. targeting afghan problems like the drug trade. >> right now, the marines back here are rigging these chemicals with explosives. c-4 plastic exploess. see them getting ready for what will be a controlled explosion in a couple of hours. the reason for this, the reason that these c-4 plastic explosiex explosives are placed here is because these chemicals are believed to be used to process heroin. more than 90% of the world's heroin comes from afghanistan. in the fields around this town where we're located right now, see miles of poppy fields growing there, where the heroin is and later produced. in a couple of hours, we expect before the sun comes up that these shop market stalls here in this busy bazaar will go up in smoke. >> i've been watchingingi embed

with the marines in afghanistan. chris brown apologizing for beating his girlfriend, rihanna. this online message. >> i have told rihanna countless times and telling you today i'm truly, truly sorry and i wasn't able to handle the situation differently and better. as many of you knew, i grew up in a home where there was domestic violence and saw firsthand what uncontrolled rage could do. i sought and continuing to seek help to ensure what occurred in february can never happen again. as i sit here today, i can tell you i will do everything in my power to make sure it never happens again and i promise that. what i did was unacceptable, 100%. i can only ask and pray you forgive me. >> brown pleaded guilty to felony assault charges last month. now on to stars who haven't fallen. today's celebration of another worldly milestone. 40th anniversary of man's first walk on the moon. >> the original moonwalkers got

an audience with the president at the white house today. their astronaut friends were all over the television. their eyes still clearly on that final frontier. >> it was a great adventure for our generation. my question in my mind is, what is a great adventure for the next generation? >> the ultimate goal, truly, is -- >> some of us are saying, hey, a good thing to do. >> mars is a goal we should shoot for, to explore, to go there. >> i think the human spirit wants to take us out there. >> there may be life on mars. if it is, we ought to go there and look at it. >> right on. >> right on. of course, that mars mission will cost coins. lots of folks wondering if it's worth it these days. we'll debate that later on tonight. before we wrap up, a mooney punch line courtesy of david letterman. >> neil armstrong gets out of the thing and is standing there. remember seeing the pictures of

the baron lunar surface for as far endless horizon as you could see? bare lunar surface? 40 years ago. you know what now? that's all condos. all condos. that's all condos. >> david letterman, everybody. that's the matchup. tonight, we are hearing exclusively from the oldest of 17 children whose parents were killed in their home in florida. she is talking about what will happen next. we just know. announcer: finding the moment that's right for you both can take some time. that's why cialis gives men with erectile dysfunction options: 36-hour cialis or cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for

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we could soon hear about an additional motive in the double murder of a florida couple. parents of 17 children. escambia county sheriff so far said robbery was at the center of the killings. tonight's newsmaker is the oldest of the billings children. she is taking it upon herself to care for her 16 siblings, most of whom are adopted and have special needs.

late today she talked about that in an exclusive interview with our national correspondent, susan candiotti. >> reporter: it must have been very hard, very hard to break the news to the children. how do you try to make them understand what has happened to their parents? >> my mother was always very good at explaining to them when my sister passed away. and also with my brother. she explained heaven very gently. that it was a wonderful place, the children knew that when you sent balloons up to heaven, they got the balloons. you could talk to them. you could send them letters on their balloons. there were angels and, you know, one of the children he said that he thought he was the luckiest boy in the world because he has five guardian angels and nobody else has five guardian angels. so they're very accepting to the

peacefulness of it. i'm sure questions will come later, but right now we've protected them and we've been minimal in our conversations about it. if they ask questions, we definitely sit down and talk to them individually, but as a group, we're going to get them the counseling that they need and make sure that they can follow the steps of grieving and completely understand what's happening. >> reporter: i'm wondering, do you think you could share maybe any one of the messages that, perhaps, one of the children that wrote to their mom and dad that went up to the balloons? >> there were several i love you m mommy, i love you daddy. one of them said you're the best mommy in the world. there's just, you know, they understand. they're compassionate children.

they know that their mommy's not here. children -- all children need a mommy. and she was the best mommy. >> reporter: any special messages for their dad? >> yes. there were i love you daddyis. they each did one for mommy and daddy. one of the children, there was a letter that said i'll miss fishing with you, daddy. they loved to go fishing. they've got lots of -- lots of people that have taken them fishing this weekend. so -- >> tough stuff. susan candiotti joins us live from pensacola.

susan, i understand you have new information about the investigation and what the sheriff is now saying? can you share it with us? >> reporter: that's right. well, for the first time, the sheriff is addressing in a direct way questions that have been circulating around this community. were the billings victims of a contract hit? now the sheriff is saying, yes, we are looking at it as a moti e motive. we haven't taken that or anything else off the table. john, in the past, he has outright denied this was a possibility and said he was only looking at robbery as a motive. however, he has also repeatedly said the billings are not directly being looked at as suspects in any kind of criminal investigation. but this is new. >> you also asked ashley about the connection between one of the suspects, leonard gonzalez jr. and the husband. what does she tell you about that? >> reporter: that's right. we were looking at that because, today, we learned for the first time in some new documents released by the sheriff's office, a police affidavit, that

one of the suspects, leonard gonzalez, as you indicated, told investigators that he knew the victims. also, that he had received financial support from mr. billings. when i asked ashley about that, she said, i don't remember him at all. and then her lawyer stepped in to say, look, it is entirely possible that mr. billings, who has given -- made donations in the past to children's services, that, perhaps, he did that. because this man was running a martial arts program for children.

if we don't act, medical bills will wipe out their savings. if we don't act, she'll be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. and he won't get the chemotherapy he needs. if we don't act, health care costs will rise 70%. and he'll have to cut benefits for his employees. but we can act. the president and congress have a plan to lower your costs and stop denials for pre-existing conditions. it's time to act. the first complete women's multivitamin in a drink mix. with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy.

a look at the other must-see stories of the day. randi kaye is here tonight with tonight's "download." >> the u.s. army is recruiting more soldiers. robert gates is increasing the size of the army by up to 22,000 troops. as the strain of fighting two wars taking its toll. >> the persistent pace of operations in iraq and afghanistan over the last several years has steadily increased the number of troops not available for deployment in the army. these additional forces will be used to ensure that our deploying units are properly manned and not to create new combat formations. >> the troop increase temporary. the total price tag for all of those federal government bailouts? $23.7 trillion, double the

nation's entire economic output for a single year. that's part of a report from the man in charge of tracking t.a.r.p. money. neil barofsky is expected to tell congress tomorrow he's worried the treasury department isn't doing enough to prevent waste. the dramatic rescue of a woman and her two young children caught on camera in milwaukee, sunday, after an suv crashed and then caught fire. off duty firefighters and a cop led the way. several neighbors also get some credit. >> if it wasn't for the citizens, they were bashing that window open. that gave us access to the child. things would have been different. if that person didn't come forward with that pocket knife, things would have been different. if that lady didn't come through with that garden hose, you know, the burns sustained to the child would have been much more severe. >> amazing scene playing out there. the 4-year-old boy is in critical condition. the two firefighters were also burned saving him.

paula abdul might be done with "american idol." yes, it's true. the show's producers reportedly haven't invited her back for next season. do tell, yes, of course, john. abdul's former manager tells "the l.a. times" she's not a happy camper about this and apparently has ideas for her own show. >> oh my goodness. lucrative broadcast. >> yes, it is. i sense competition there. >> randi kaye, thanks so much. president obama talks about his deadline for health care reform and why it needs to happen quickly. the american captured in afghanistan. we'll talk with cnn's michael wehr, familiar with the.

president obama is keeping up the pressure on congress to get a deal on health care,

sooner rather than later. today the president slammed those on the right whom he accuses of using politics as road block to reform. a gop critic thinks the white house has its own reasons for wanting speedy approval. >> we've talked this problem to death. year after year. but unless we act and act now, none of this will change. >> we're talking about one sixth of the american chi economy. you're talking about myriad problems here. you're talking about people all over the map as far as what they really want to do. i think there's a really good reason why the president wants to do it. he knows he can't sell it if the debate lasts very long because sn%w)w >> short time ago i spoke with joe lieberman, along with five democratic and republican colleagues wrote a letter to the president urging a go-slow bipartisan approach to health care. >> senator, it's good to talk to you today. thanks very much for taking the tile. where does all of this stand now

that this health care bill -- what's going on in the senate? >> there's a lot of work to do. i think people understand how big this bill is, how much it will affect every american, how much it will affect our national debt long term. i think my colleagues want to get this right. so it can be done this year. it should be done this year, but let's get it done right instead of getting it done quickly just for the sake of getting it done. >> the president is pushing back. he really wants this. he said, quote, it's been talked to death year after year. is he pushing too hard in? >> i think the fact president obama is pushing is one of the reasons we're probably going to get something done in terms of health care reform this year. it's important not to push too hard too fast. keep it moving but wait until it's really ready and we've got a plan that enjoys a consensus. we're dealing with something enormous and complicated that matters a lot to people. we're trying to contain cost.

that's the number one goal. we've got to do it in a way that doesn't increase our national debt long term. >> senator, i talked to your colleague there in the senate, ben nelson from nebraska on friday. he basically told me the charlie rangel plan to pay for this with tax surcharge on high-income earners is a nonstarter. nancy pelosi seems to be modifying that saying, we're going to raise the threshold so individuals making a half a million dollars or families making a million dollars are the ones who are going to pay for this. does that make it any more palatable to you? >> probably does make it more palatable. overall, we need tax reform in our country. we probably need to ask more of the highest income earners in our country than they're paying now. really ought not to be done as health care reform. i'd like to see us finance this out of the savings we achieve in health care reform and begin to

focus on the ways we can reform our system to save money and think about phasing in the coverage of the 45 million to 47 million people who don't have it now. that's really what costs almost all of the trillion dollars that we're scurrying around looking for ways to raise taxes to pay for. >> senator, if you put the burden strictly on the highest income earners in this country, do you risk what we saw in the 2000 campaign, this idea of class warfare and at the same time, if they are the ones who are paying for it solely, you know, there are many democrats who are pretty wealthy. did you risk any blowback from them? >> you might. look, i think the best time to raise taxes on the wealthy, if that's what we're going to do, is do it as part of overall tax reform. an overall focus on reducing america's long-term debt, we're

bankrupting our children's future and our grandchildren's future and we've got to stop that. we don't want to make that problem worse in adopting health care reform than it otherwise would be. frankly, we don't want to, i think, get into the overall tax reform question which we're going to need a safe to fix that larger, looming problem of america's, this current fiscal irresponsibility. >> joe lieberman, always great to catch up with you. >> great to talk to you, john, have a good one. i want to bring in gloria borger in washington. you heard what the senator had to say about taxes a second ago, gloria. let's leave that for a second but get down to the speed of this whole thing. senator lieberman and colleagues want to slow this process down. they say it's going too fast. if they slow it down and substantially, does that risk taking enough momentum out of it that they could kill it? >> when you talk to folks at the white house, they say exactly that. look, we've got momentum now. we're as close as we have ever

been. the three out of five congressional committees with jurisdiction over this have passed some form of legislation. we have to get the momentum going further. that's why you're going to see this president every day this week talking about health care reform. having a press conference wednesday night. that's going to be about health care reform. the next question we have to ask about the president is when is he going to lay down his principles upon which he will not give? is he going to tell us that, draw lines in the sand or is it going to be somewhere between those two things? we'll find that out on wednesday. >> when the cbo director went before congress last week and went before them one day and said this is going to add to the government's exposure in terms of the money that was paid out for all of this. then on friday he came up with a figure and said over ten years this is going to add $239 billion to the debt. that seemed to scare the ba

jesus out of senators. >> moderate democrats in the house as well. congress is good at proposing things. they're not good at paying for them. as senator lieberman was saying in your interview, what they have to figure out really is how to control costs. because people in this country understand that we've got a problem with sky-rocketing medical costs. we've also got a problem with sky-rocketing deficit right now. people in this country are very concerned about adding to that deficit. they don't want their children and grandchildren to have a big bill. >> now, proponents of the bill will say, wait a second, the drrcbo said this could cost $239 billion. cost savings could add up, which means at the end of ten years we would come out with a $6 billion surplus. what's the likelihood that's going to happen? >> surplus is a word we haven't heard in quite some time. i think this were any other time and we weren't in such an economic crisis in this country

and people weren't so focused on the finances of the nation as well as their own finances, you might be able to believe in a surplus. right now, i think people want to see numbers that they can believe. democrats believe you might end up with it, but republicans and moderate democrats are saying, show me. the administration has to show them. >> gloria borger, always great to catch up with you. thanks for joining us tonight. president obama holds a news conference wednesday at 8:00 eastern. we're going to have that here on cnn. ahead, an american soldier taken prison in afghanistan. what a videotape could say about his captors. later, nasa's next mission. we've been to the moon. so why not mars? taking its rightful place in a long line of amazing performance machines.

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>> i have my girlfriend who i was hoping to marry. i have my grandma and grandpas. i have a very, very good family that i love back home in america. and i miss them every day that i'm gone. i miss them and i'm afraid that i might never see them again. >> my personal reaction was one of disgust at the exploitation of this young man. >> having been with the forces, in fact, who are conducting the operations to recover him or to find him is that they are extensive vast. they're on it 24/7. we're doing absolutely everything we can do get him ba back. >> what does that mean? air drone flying overhead,

passing out flyers. collecting intelligence. seeing if they can eves drop on any conversations they might be able to hear. >> cnn pentagon correspondent joins us from washington. in new york, michael wehr who spent considerable time with the taliban leaders holding bergdahl. and author "of in the graveyard of empires: america's war in afghanistan." chris, let's start with you. the taliban, the u.s. military and bowe bergdahl giving different reasons for why he was captured by the taliban or how he came to be, what he was doing at the time. what's the best assessment we have of how he was captured. >> right now, there are three versions of what happened to him. the taliban says bergdahl visited another military outpost, got drunk and was ambu ambushed on the way back to his car. the american military source says the taliban is lying about

him being drunk but he did leave his small outpost on his own and went without his weapons. on the videotape you just saw, the soldier, himself, said he was on patrol but that he was lagging behind when he was captured. the one thing that they all can probably agree on is that he has been moved several times since his capture. >> when the taliban says he was drinking, is there any reason to believe them? >> no, for several reasons. one is that no military base in afghanistan is allowed to have alcohol at all. u.s. military soldiers are actually removed from afghanistan if they're drinking at all. you can't find alcohol at a u.s. military base. >> i've had a few drinks on a few bases in afghanistan. >> in general, the penalty for the soldier to drink -- >> general understanding number one, is a war crime in itself. preventing alcohol. >> this is great propaganda, to see the infidel, drinking in a country where they don't drink alcohol is a useful propaganda

tool. >> michael, you have spent considerable time. familiar with the people holding bergdahl. tell us what you know. >> these -- this is the ha khanny network. it's led by hakani. he used to be the cia's greatest ally. indeed, he was the man who took then-congressman charlie wilson into afghanistan and brought him back out. now, while the pakistani intelligence service, who's pilfering all the money, had all its little patrons, the cia developed its own channel. hakani became very aggrieved when -- the months after 9/11, there were conversations with hakani trying to bring him back in from the hold. as far as he was concerned, he was simply fighting another foreign occupation. this will now fit into a much

greater picture. this private first class is now going to be a key joker card that the taliban can play in negotiations to end this war. as we know, the pakistani intelligence organization has always been the conduit to the taliban. they've now finally admitted in public they've talking to o hma and hakani. it was almost like this private was a target of opportunity. he is now going to be well-used in forthcoming negotiations. >> chris lawrence, pick that up for us. what is the pentagon saying of the potential he could be used as some sort of a bargaining chip. i don't think he goes through this survival of resistance and escape training many flyers do or special operations forces. are they worried about his state of mind there? are they worried about how he's surviving captivity? >> they are. there is that intense resistance in escape training that involves

food and sleep depravation. that's only given to pilots, special ops, people at very high risk of being captured. private bergdahl would have gone through a basic version of that. instructed to follow captors' direction, not make enemy of his captors. he would have been told to always look for a chance to escape. it's the difference between being a prisoner of war and a prisoner at war. >> go ahead, mike. >> that's what i'm saying. right now at this juncture in the war, he is more valuable to the taliban alive than dead. if he was with al qaeda, he would be dead by now. >> one of the interesting components of this, too, is "the new york times" correspondent was captured by the taliban and transferred to the hakani network and kept alive. he was brought across the border into pakistan, in the north -- >> you think he's in pakistan? >> i have no doubt he's in pakistan. that's where hakani is, where

the bases are, where he plans and equips. it's from there where he launches the attacks. it's all with the tolerance of the pakistani intelligence industry. >> is there any way the u.s. could launch a rescue mission? >> would have to have very, very specific information on his whereabouts. very good information about the security detail around him. >> you'd have to get pakistan's permission. they're not going to get that. >> bottom line, because his parents may be watching as well. from what you know of the hakani network, do you believe his life is in danger? >> i think, i firmly believe they're going to keep him alive. hakani is an old-school warrior. he's one of the greatest battle commanders afghanistan's ever produced. he is well-aware of this soldier's political value. as i said, he is much more valuable to them alive than dead. it might not be pleasant. it's going to be very, very basic. it's not in their interest to

kill him right now. the propaganda value would be minim minimal. he's far more valuable in forcing america to the table. >> michael wehr, seth jones. the wing nut watch. up next, the pick for the most out there statement of the past few days. in tonight's spotlight, outrageous comments on whether the pentagon should care about saving private bergdahl. i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.

time now for the segment we call "the wing nut watch." our guest, daily beef contributor, calls out someone on the right who divides rather an unites us. he's here. who's tonight's wing nut? >> when the videotape of bowe bergdahl was released, there was outpouring support around the country especially in idaho. some of the pundits took on the air. a newspaper columnist, who was a formally respected military analyst, took a step way over the line. let's take a listen. >> when the facts are in, we find out that through some convoluted change of events he really was captured by the taliban, i'm with him.

but if he walked away from his post and his buddies in wartime, i don't care how hard it sounds. as far as i'm concerned, the taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills. >> so it sounds like peter's suggesting here that if he, in fact, is a deserter, he wouldn't mind if the taliban killed him. >> appears he is suggesting. he accused him of collaborating with the enemy and saying he's not a hero. that's why it crossed the line. not a lot we know about the situation. we know for sure one of our soldiers is held hostage by the taliban in a time of war. if you give every criminal the benefit of the doubt in our legal system, our men and women deserve ten times that. >> three different stories on how he was captured. sounds like peter is calling him a liar as well. what's that based on? >> he did not fall away from his troop as he suggests. as you say, there are three stories out there. that seems to me beside the point.

there needs to be a presumption of goodwill. we need to rally around our soldiers. if a liberal commentator had said that about a soldier taken captive during the battle of pa luge ja, there would have been a deafening outcry, that would have been the right thing to do. fair's fair. this is way over the line and not acceptable stuff. this is wing nut stuff. we have to rally behind our troops 100%. >> is he candidate for wing nut of the week or does he have a clear line? >> he's got a clear line. we'll judge that separately on friday. >> don't forget john is on the live blog chatting with you. the address, cnn.com/campbell. "larry king live" coming up at the top of the hour. who do you have with you tonight? >> larry: good one. joe jackson is with us tonight. michael jackson's father sits down. his first live interview since his son's death. we'll ask him how he and the family are doing. joe will try to set the record straight on drugs and the autopsy. his remarks about foul play. and michael jackson's joe

jackson is next on "larry king live." won't be dull, john. >> what about michael jackson's childhood? going to go over that as well? >> larry: i imagine we will. >> looking forward to that. >> larry: we'll give it our best shot. >> thank you, larry. see you tonight. tonight marks 40 years since man's first walk on the moon. should we shoot for mars next? is it a massive waste of money?

it was 40 years ago today in the dramatic moment is unforgettable for anyone alive at the time. eyes around the radio rivoted to the television, ears tuned to the radio. here now moments from then and the first anniversary of the first walk on the moon. >> five, four, three, two, one. zero. all engine running. liftoff. we have a liftoff. >> griffin, the eagle has landed. that's one small step for man. one giant leap for man kind. men from the planet earth first step foot upon the moon, july, 1969. all man kind. >> i remember waving american flags and my grandfather telling

me that the apollo mission was an example of how americans could do anything they put their minds to. one of the things that i've committed to doing as president is making sure that math and science is cool again. >> there may be life on mars. if there is, sure we ought to go there and look at it. >> right. >> right on. that is tonight's "great debate." is a trip to mars necessary or a massive waste of money? joining us, professor howard mccurdy of american university. expert on space policy who supports a mission to mars. david williams of the group, citizens against government waste, against going to mars. opening statements from each. 30 seconds on the clock. gentlemen, make your case. >> we have a $1.4 trillion deficit. a trip to mars right now is a luxury, not a necessity. we need to re-evaluate spending at all levels and nasa is first on the list to re-evaluate because at this point, we cannot

afford to go to mars. there these to be different ways to look at this and how we can accomplish this without taxpayer-funded missions. >> wow, did that in a little more than 21. howard, your turn. make your case for going to mars. >> we need to go to mars because we don't know how to do it, can't afford to go. in the word of president kennedy, nothing will serve more to organize our skills than an objective of this sort. it would be a transitional change for us. it would give us the capability to move around the inner solar system. we need that capability. >> you both came in under 30 seconds. efficient tonight. let's talk about the idea john f. kennedy in the 1960s said he wanted to put a man on the moon within ten years. there was a space race with the russians at that point. it was a boom for american technology. gave us everything from teflon to velcro. the products of discovery of

continuing to explore space. did they not outweigh the costs? >> i don't buy that premise that we wouldn't have discovered these things anyway. we would have discovered teflon and plasma tvs. you can't say that's only because of space travel we discovered these. it doesn't need to go to outer space to do them. i don't buy that argument. >> what do you say about that, howard? i must say, too, i had a tempur-pedic mattress for a while. >> i had a chance when i was much younger to stand in the room where the flight simulators were for standing on the moon. the computers were real to real computers. took up the area that was the size of a lecture hall. the computer on the apollo lander that landed on the moon was the size of a briefcase. that's the technological advance nasa helped us make in an eight-year period. i can go through a lot more. there are a lot more. fuel cells, proportion

methodologies. nasa wasn't the only force behind these but one of the forces. if you remove that source, you weaken the united states and ability to have a technological economy. >> keep in mind, there are only more seven shuttle missions left. retired at the end of 2010. no immediate program for nasa to pick up after that unless there's a plan to go to the moon and mars beyond that. if you want to get americans to the international space station, you're going to have to rely on the russians to do that. chinese making huge inroads. they want to commercialize, go beyond that as well. david williams, do we risk falling behind? >> absolutely not. the government isn't the only entity that can go to space. you have the private sector now trying to commercialize space travel. why not provide incentives to companies? if you colonize the moon, we're going to give you 50 year tax exempt status a the federal

level or cash prizes? right now nasa is pretty inefficient. the reason we're getting rid of the shuttle, the space station, they're getting ready to moth ball the space station. i don't know if you remember. there are all these promises of the world donating to this and pitching in for the funding of this. it never materialized. now we have a $100 billion space station nasa, itself, is saying, well, maybe its time has come and gone. these space shuttle missions are dwindling because nasa is no longer a relative agency. >> i talked to one of the foremost leaders in the commercialization of space, sir richard branson last month. i asked him if he thought private enterprise had a role in space exploration. he thought it was limited to satellite launches. if we don't keep the government involved, do we risk falling behind? >> nasa needs to have a transition

transitional goal. nasa has become the fgeneral motors of space. it needs an incentive like project apollo. it had the incentive in the 1990s over the 20 years, made tremendous advances in robotic space flight. i'd like to see the same thing happen to a human space flight. i think the mars program would do that. >> going to the moon is one thing, 250,000 miles away. mars is a whole lot further. the trip, itself, would be 2 1/2 years. is it just as expensive to go to mars? >> it is. that's the only reason to go. the only way we'd be able to go is drive the cost of space flight down. we ftried to do that with the space shuttle in 1972. it's a worthy goal. >> people are asked to sacrifice around this country because of the economic times we live if. the government needs to do the same. we can't afford multimillion dollar trips to the moon, to mars or anywhere at this point

in time. >> david williams and howard m space. wednesday is going to be a big night at cnn. 8:00 eastern, president obama holds a primetime news conference where his main emphasis is expected to be health care reform. then at 9:00 p.m., a major cnn event. the premiere of "black in america two." soledad o'brien reports on the most challenging issues facing african-americans and the ground breaking solutions coming from the community. thanks for joining us tonight. i'll be back tomorrow for "american morning" starting at 6:00 a.m. eastern. among our guests tomorrow, john mccain and governors ed rendell and bobby jindal. "larry king live" starts in a few minutes tonight. michael jackson's father, joe jackson. okay...um...eighteen pounds and a smidge. a smidge? y'know, there's really no need to weigh packages under 70 pounds. with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service, if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate.

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