it's not the health care edie bait that has them riled up. the officer whose ego got in their way is now getting sued for it. he doesn't deserve it. you watch and tell me. i'm taking you inside the lab where research will hopefully prevent this. health care, the obama birth certificate flap and the president, live all during your national conversation for wednesday, july 22nd, 2009. >> hello again, everybody. i'm rick sanchez with the next generation of news. this is a conversation.

it is not a speech. it's your turn to get involved. the conversation continues about whether the president of the united states is, in fact, a citizen of the united states. that president, by the way, is about to hold a joint news conference with prime minister al maliki of iraq. as soon as the two men come out, you will see what they have to say for themselves. this may be the first time the men will hold a joint news conference and which are going to be covering it in full. back to this question about the president and his legitimacy as a citizen of the united states, today, on the house floor at least one man stood up and addressed this, saying that maybe this is not something that should be talked about, at least not in this measure, even though there is now also a bill by four men who are sponsoring it to try and make sure that in the future the law is changed as to how people have to come forward to show that they are citizens or noncitizens. i want you to hear from bill

paskral. he is the one that stood up on the house floor and made this statement. here it is. >> i bring you a cope andy and d it up of his birth certificate, which has been authenticated, in the state of hawaii, by the department of health. i also hold up an announcement in the newspaper august the 14th. yet despite being proved categorically untrue, time and time again, this rumor stays alive because of tas sit acknowledgment embeaued in this legislation from legislator ns this room, anything to bring the messenger down. these rumors hurt america. they hurt the strength of our country. the fact that some members of the minority would embrace this rhetoric stuns me. these allegations have no grounding, in fact. this bill is nothing more than a

shameful ploy to stir up fear and dissension in the minds of the american people. what bill is he talking about? >> that bill i told you about a little while ago. we did some research after talking to my colleague who had told me about it. here it is, hr1303. what is hr 1503, mark? >> it is a bill that doesn't address the situation about whether president obama is or is not a citizen. going forward, it is requiring any candidate who is running for president to show proof that he or she is a citizen. >> it is interesting. i had a conversation a little while ago. i want you to listen to this. we have roland martin who will be joining us in a little bit. i would like his take because he has been blogging about it. i talked to senator tom coburn from oklahoma. i also asked him about this. because he is telling me now

that he would be willing to vote for this. although, he also told me in the same breath that he believes that barack obama was born in honolulu, is a citizen of the united states. here is the conversation in its entirety. >> what we need is bills that bring us together, not things that divide us. this is about the future, it is not about now. it is about the future. >> doesn't this really divide americans? doesn't this feed into this whole crazy notion that some muslim guy from some african country is coming over to take us over because he is not really -- >> i don't think soy. >> you don't think so? >> no. i have got a lot of letters on this. they are mad at me because i won't stand up and go after it right now. i understand that. the point is, he is as legitimately recognized by every secretary of state. so he is our president. there is no question about it. all these bills are about the future. >> is there any question in your mind -- i here you keep saying

he is a citizen. >> there is no question in my mind that he is born in hawaii. >> that he is legitimately a citizen of the united states? >> you bet. >> so when people call your office and say, senator tom coburn, why don't you join us, the birthers, are trying to remove this guy because he is an illegitimate president? >> first of all, i say, he is recognized by all 50 states. my state determined he was eligible. so, therefore, he is. i have no doubts that he was born here. the question really is, we need to build confidence in government, rather than tear it down. although these people are very serious, very worried, they think there is a conspiracy. you can't disprove a conspiracy on the basis of anything other than i've just said to you. >> well, you can. you can show what i'm showing right now. you can show a birth certificate.

>> that's what i've said. >> i can show you right now and i can read it to you the announcement put in the honolulu newspaper in 1964 on the day that he was born. >> i don't have any doubt. >> sorry, august 24th, 1961. >> i have no doubt about that. >> the point is, how do we assure people for the future so we rebuild confidence? so you make the standards a tougher standard? there is knot nothing wrong with that. >> roland martin is joining us right now. all he is saying, just to avoid any conflict or con tro versus in the future, let's put a new bill in. >> that's stupid. let's rebuild confidence. this is a small group of nutty people. there are people right now, rick, who don't believe the holocaust happened. ahmadinejad, who runs iran. there are people who do not believe we actually landed on the moon. there are people who don't believe that john mccain is an american citizen.

there are people who believe that the clintons were involved in killing vince foster. you deal with crazy people every election. you don't sit here and pass a bill for a small minority. >> they are admitting, roland, that this bill has nothing to do with barack obama. that's what they say. they are saying this is for people in the future so we don't have this kind of problem g. >> in the words of joe jackson bullesque. that's what this is. it is all about president barack obama. senator coburn, you have a lot more stuff to deal with, especially when it comes to health care, than this silly story which is nothing but a bunch of people who have nothing else to do who want to try to say he is not a legitimate president. as simple as that. >> let's leave it right there. you know what we are going to do, we have the president coming up with prime minister al maliki as well. you are the one who made me aware of this new bill, mark preston. i want to bring you back into the conversation.

roland martin, always a spit fire. we will bring him in as well. there is the shot where we are talking about. stay with us. we are going to be right back. including who i trust to look after my money. ♪ (woman) the dust might be settling... that's great, but i'm not. ♪ (second man) i guess i'm just done with doing nothing, you know? ♪ (third man) oh, i'm not thinking about moving my money. i am moving it. tdd# 1-800-345-2550

welcome back. house resolution 1503. it says in the future, presidents or candidacy for the presidency will have to show not only 50 states all the documents they are citizens of the united states but also federal agencies as well. is it necessary? roland martin made a comment that this is just a small number of people. i wonder, mark preston, if it really is a small number of people, given that there is now a house resolution 1503 and given that there are broadcasters out there on the radio and television who are telling people who are insisting that the president prove this to his constituency. the nation. >> this is the story that seems to not want to go away. we've been talking about this for over a year right now. this was brought up about john mccain back in the presidential election. was he, in fact, a citizen of the you states. i am not going to question people's motivation. i think you can make an educated guess and say that the folks out

there who are saying that he is not a citizen don't like president obama or his policies. as for this legislation, there are only nine cosponsors. the head cosponsor, bill posey, out of florida, is not pushing this bill. the chances of this really being addressed and hitting the house floor, i think, are probably zil mu zil much to zero. >> do you know how much bills that are introduced that will never see the light of day? this is one of them. all those individuals in the military who are refusing their orders because they, themselves, are questioning whether he is president. they should be dishonorably discharged for refusing an order from the president. >> here is one of the constituents. delaware congressman castle trying to talk about health care reform at a town hall meeting in his town when this woman jumps up and she seems to get the support of everybody else in the

audience. let's watch this. >> i want to know why are people ignoring his birth. he is not an american citizen. he is a citizen of kenya. >> the president there is a citizen of the united states. >> prove it, prove it. >> is a citizen of the united states. >> prove it. >> she goes on to say a couple of things that i found note worthy. she mentions the thakt that one of her relatives was in world war ii. one of the president's relatives was in world war ii. then, she says these words, i want my country back. what does that mean to you? >> how is this black guy all of the sud dn running the country?

what's going on. you have some people that cannot get over the fact that he won. real simple, suck it up, he won. take your shot in 2012. you might beat him. the bottom line is, it is ridiculous. let me tell you something. on the left, there are also some nut jobs on the left. all this was ridiculous as well. the election is over. >> not to mention the fact that this couldn't interest i or the bush administration blew up the twin towers. >> another conspiracy theory. >> here is a tweet from the very top, from the left and the right. you know, rick, the president could just produce a full birth certificate, accent on full there, like i have that details hospital, physician. >> no. >> let me tell viewers what he is talking about. >> here is the birth certificate, right, robert? swing around and shoot this for me. let me hold steady. you see what it says right

there. certificate of live birth. some folks are saying, that is not a birth certificate because it is certification of life birth. >> he would never be able to disprove a conspiracy theory. they will simply come up with something else. you are the president. you don't address this. the president doesn't have to stoop down to this kind of silly thing. >> what are the politics of this, mark? >> the politics are that the loudest folks in the political game are those on the very end, the very liberals and the very conservatives, they are the ones that are the loud defendant. that's what we saw happen to mike castle who is the congressman that had to deal with that woman. let's try to separate this legislation from the birthers. was it triggered about this whole thing about barack obama being a citizen?

yes, it does. let's let congress deal with the bill. >> they don't even deal with it. look, rick, you tell me that our process has worked for 43 presidents. all of the sudden, president obama is in the white house. oh, now, we need to have absolute proof. we already have a system. it, would. he is legitimate. he is an american citizen. the people who are complaining are simply the people who are just wing nuts on the left and the right. get over it. the election is over. you lost. >> i am just wondering. by the way, we just got a two-minute warning that the president is going to be coming on with al maliki. are the politicians feeding the citizenry or is the citizenry feeding the politicians here? >> on this issue, i think the politicians are being very careful about what they say publicly. they don't want to look like one of the wing nuts.

>> they are feeding it. that's exactly what's going on. you have to have confident people who frankly say we are not going to get stuck in this mess and try to address this stuff. you simply ignore it and you move on. you let those nuts on radio and television who want to drive this thing on, that's what they do. it is about ratings. they want to sit here and stir it up. they say, look, so-and-so talked about it, it must be legitimate. >> and they forced everybody else to talk about it, by making it a bill and having elengtvente this. >> let's keep exposing crazy folks. >> if people are saying something that is untrue, our responsibility as journalists is to shine a light on it and say, that's not true. >> absolutely. >> if something says it is raining outside, i have to say, hey, folks, look outside, it is not raining. if i have a birth certificate in front of me that says he was

born in honolulu, i need to show it to people and say, here is the birth certificate. >> that was fabricated, rick. that's a false birth certificate. you know it is not right. >> it is tough. the things that rick davis and our standard and practice have to deal with every day. do you do more harn m by coveri the story. al maliki, the prime minister of iraq. what's the significance here, mark? >> this is the next step forward. we have moved our combat troops out of the cities and towns. the fact is, the american people, right now, rick, don't want to send our troops back in if that violence escalates. al maliki is over here talking about this issue with the president and the next step, about investment into his country. >> is this something that presidents have to do or do you think these guys are going to make some news out of this thing? >> it shows confidence that we are no longer playing big

brother to iraq. al maliki says it is us taking control of our destiny and our country. it is the proper transfer of authority. for the american public, we want to see the iraq leaders say, it is time to be controlled by our own destiny. a good thing for all of us. run their own country. our troops need to come home. >> the last time al maliki was siding side by side with the joint news conference with the president of the united states, a shoe flew. >> let's not forget that president bush was very adept at getting out of the way when that shoe came by. >> if there is a president of the united states that will go down for best reactions, i'm voting for him. >> that's the way we are raised in texas. you have to move a little quick. >> afghanistan is now in the headlines where iraq used to be, isn't it? >> that's the next battle. the administration is getting lots of questions about that. what is our goal in afghanistan?

>> mark, it is almost like the ex agenerals is now on afghanistan. >> others are saying if we dealt with afghanistan in the first that's, there would be no need to go into iraq. >> rick, you do know that the administration is lying about afghanistan. their goal is to go in and try to wipe out al qaeda as we know it? >> you know that many of our analysts and correspondents say that is all but impossible. >> you might call it impossible but you have to make the effort. you cannot allow them to reconstitute themselves and gain power u must destroy their economy and where they are getting their money from. you cannot sit on the sidelines.

they killed 3,000 american citizens. you must do all you can to take them out. >> we got your point. we are looking at the camera. we saw a little bit of a shift. let me take you to another conversation. it is all about health care in the united states. the president is taking a full tilt. is he going to get this done by august? >> i say no. this is very difficult and complicated. he is having problems with his own party. >> roland, i will hold your thoughts. here is the president and the prime minister. good afternoon, everybody. i am very pleased to welcome prime minister maliki back to washington. we just concluded a very productive discussion about a wide-range of issues. we meet at an important moment. substantial progress has been made since prime minister maliki's first visit to washington in 2006. the prime minister and i had a chance to sit down in baghdad. violence continues to be down and iraqis are taking

responsibility for their future. this progress has been made possible by the resilience of the iraqi people and security forces and also because of the extraordinary service of american troops and civilians in iraq. now, we are in the midst of a full transition to iraqi responsibility and a comprehensive partnership between the united states and iraq based on mutual interests and mutual respect. the success is critically important to the security and prosperity of our people and it is a top priority of my administration. recently, we took an important step forward by transferring control of all iraqi cities and towns to iraq's security forces. this transition was part of our security agreement and should send an unmistakable signal that we will keep our commitments with the sovereign iraqi government. as i said before, we seek no

basis in iraq nor do we make any claim on iraq's territory or resources. going forward, we will continue to provide training and support for iraqi security forces that are capable and nonsectarian. we will move forward with our strategy to responsibly remove all american combat brigades from iraq by the end of next august. to fulfill our commitment to remove all american troops from iraq by the end of 2011. as we move forward, prime minister maliki and i have no doubt that there will be some tough days ahead. there will be a tax on iraqi security forces and the american troops supporting them. there are still those in iraq who would murder innocent men, women, an children. there are still those who want full sectarian conflict. make no mistake, those efforts will fail. the iraqi people have already rejected these forces of division and destruction. american troops have the capability, the support, and

flexibility they need to stand with our iraqi partners on behalf of a sovereign, secure, and self-reliant iraq. because we believe that the future does not belong to those who would destroy it, it belongs to those who would build. to that end, america strongly supports efforts by the iraqi government to promote national unity which will help ensure that people in all parts of iraq can live in peace and prosperity. prime minister maliki discussed issues like the hydrocarbons law and disputed internal boundaries that will be fundmental to iraq. they will be more sec sus fell if there is a plays for all iraqi citizens to thrive, including all of iraq's ethnic and religious groups. that's why america continues to support efforts to integrate all iraqis into iraqi government and security forces. we have increased our assistance

to help displaced iraqis return to their homes. prime minister maliki and i also agree to build a broader basis for cooperation between our nations. now, both of us agree that the bonds forced between americans and iraqis in war can pave the way for progress that can be forged in peace. the strategic framework agreement agreed to last year helped lay the ground work for this progress. american stands ready to help the iraqi government build. their capacity to provide base services and promote the rule of law. together, we can expand economic trade and together we can broaden our educational, cultural and scientific engagement to make a positive difference in the lives of our people. together, we can take steps to advance security and prosperity throughout the region and around the globe. prime minister maliki and i are

both deeply humbled by the sacrifices made by iraqis and americans to create this opportunity. there are many important meetings that will take plays ov praes ov place over the course of the prime minister's visit. i am happy he is going to visit arlington national cemetery, the final resting place for so many americans that have paid the ultimate progress. they have set an example of self-less sacrifice that all of us must strive to meet. i want to thank ambassador chris hill who is here and doing outstanding work. under the most difficult circumstances imaginable, they have completed every mission they have been given and forged countless partnerships and friendships with the iraqi people. this story is one that can be told by people in both our countries. the iraqi people have endured extraordinary hardship in their pursuit of a brighter day. so many iraqis and americans

have made so many sacrifices on behalf of a better future. now, as we work to end this war and to look beyond it, we must live up to their example and live up to our own responsibilities to see that there legacy is truly one of greater peace and prosperity. thank you. with that, i would like to welcome prime minister maliki and give him the opportunity for some remarks. in the name of god, the most compassionate, thank you. i thank the president of the united states, mr. obama, for your warm hospitality. regarding all the issues that related to a positive relationship as well as the aspiration to deepen that relationship, my meeting with the president was positive and constructive meeting reflected the deep conviction on the part of both sides to establish a

strategic friendship. in order to continue the successes that we have achieved and perhaps we refer to the security successes that led to the stability in iraq, we have also referred to the sacrifices by our sons and daughters on both sides to confront al qaeda members. those who are outlawed and those who voice sectarian wars. if they succeeded in their efforts, they would not have been killing only iraq but the entire region through the danger of sectarianism. our sons and daughters succeeded on both sides which led to stability and the return of the strength of the iraqi government under full sovereignty. among the things that we can refer to in a positive way is the positive commitment in following up with the

commitments that were signed by both sides, either those that are related to the standard forces or those that are related to the strategic framework agreement that will govern the relationship in the future. i have discussed it with president obama about ways in order to activate the strategic relationship and the economic front, culture front, educational front, commercial front and in every possible area where the united states can play a role in supporting the iraqi government and the efforts of the iraqi government to build a state of law, a state based on institution and federalism that works for the aspiration of its own people using the wealth of that country and that nation. we are about to activate such a strategic framework agreement. efforts on both sides are there in order also to convene and investment conference in october

of this year that will combine all four investors and all companies that would like and wish to work in iraq. all of this comes as a natural reaction to the stability and the direction of the iraqi national unity government to provide what is needed for rebuilding and reconstruction of a country that was destroyed by wars and dictatorship. it affected the infrastructure and services that could should have gochb to the iraqi people. therefore, the relationship between the two sides as it did see and witness progress on the security fronts and in combatting terror, it will see great cooperation in the areas of economic, commercial, and cultural activities. our forces, as it proves its successful role and when it received the security file, that these force proved to be capable

of performing. those who thought that the iraqi forces, if the american forces can leave, will be in capable of imposing peace and security. these people proved to be wrong. our forces benefited from working closely with the american forces and multinational pou multinational forces. our forces became highly capable. they will continue to do their role in the opportunity needed for reconstruction and rebuilding iraq. iraq has suffered a great deal from being marginalized, the policies of sec tarianism and wars. we will work hard not to allow any sectarian behavior an opportunity to floorish. we will work on a national plan where all sons of iraq and daughters of iraq are equal in their contribution and their

services. they will be unified by iraq, not divided by other elements. we will strengthen that relationship between the people of iraq. this is the direction of the iraqi national unity government and that made us work very closely in meeting all the challenges that we are facing. it helped us on the security front. it will help us in reconstruction and we will benefit from the strategic relationship with the united states. thank you very much. >> thanks, mr. president. i would like to ask about you spoke about that u.s. forces still have in iraq. since the handover of control in the cities, the iraqi government has imposed new limits on how u.s. patrols can operate, can't patrol on their own. do you think this is a great sign of increasing iraqi

sovereignty? >> i think we have seen both improved capacity and greater confidence on the part of the iraqi security forces. we are very pleased with that. i am in communications with general odierno on a regular basis. he provides me a weekly report of how this transition has proceeded. he has been extremely positive about the progress that's been made. now, what we've seen is that they are going to be at times differences in strategy in the interest of the iraqi security forces in setting up a checkpoint at some point. our armed forces suggesting that from our experience, a checkpoint might create a target for aqi. better to be more mobile than to go after them. there will be those kind of strategic and tactical discussions that are continually

taking place between the two sides. overall, we have been very encouraged by the progress that's been made. it doesn't mean that there aren't still dangers in iraq. obviously, we have seen that in some circumstances, those who want to sew sectarian division inside of iraq are going to still resort to the killing of innocents and the senseless bombings that plagued iraq for such a long time after saddam hussein was deposed. what we have seen is that the violence levels have remained low much the cooperation between u.s. and iraqi forces has remained high. we have every confidence that we will continue to work together cooperatively and make adjustments where necessary to assure that as we move into the national elections, that iraq continues on the progress and stability and that iraqi security forces are continually ramping up their capabilities so

that ultimately, we are going to be able to fulfill our commitment to full out our troops entirely and interact with iraq as a full sovereign country that it is. >> first of all, excuse me. the relationship between the iraqi forces and the iraqi forces from cities and towns are good. cooperation. there is the support coming from the american forces next to the iraqi forces that are operating. it is normal that the responsibility is bigger and the role is bigger as a result of the security agreement but also based on the agreement of the withdrawal. if the iraqi forces would require the support from the american forces, they will ask the american side through coordinating communities that organize these operations. i believe what's happening is organizing the roles between the two sides and cooperation. it is not to marginalize the

role of any side. based on the agreement, we are still under a joint responsibility to face any threats that iraq is facing. >> my translation is not coming through and my arabic is a little shaky. >> based on the agreements, based on the agreements, the security agreement between the united states and iraq, the states should help iraq to get out of chapter 7. what steps will you be doing in order to help iraq to get out of chapter 7? >> well, this is an area that prime minister maliki emphasized. we have made a strong commitment to work with iraq to get out of

the chapter 7 constraints that were imposed after the gulf war. as i stated before, it, i think, would be a mistake for iraq to continue to be burdened by the since of a deposed dictator. to do that, we are going to have to obtain cooperation from various members of the united nations. there are going to have to be some specific disputes that are resolved between iraq and some of its neighbors. we intend to be very constructive in that process. we have said clearly, and i have repeated today, to the prime minister, that we will work diligently, with iraq so that, in fact, iraq is no longer within chapter 7. >> president obama and the american administration agree

with us that iraq is no longer representing a threat to international peace and security, because there is a democracy in iraq and not a dictatorship. they are looking for a positive relationship with the arab neighbors and the international community and to deal through a law internally and justice internally. i have seen a clear commitment from the president and the administration to support iraq and to be committed to all elements of the agreement and to help iraq to get out of chapter 7 and international sanctions, which were imposed as a result of the ventures and the wars that were led by saddam's regime, including occupying the neighboring state of kuwait. iraq has come a long way and will continue to solve all problems. there are so many problems that we are paying the price for from the previous regime in order to have friendly relations with all

members of the national community. >> there you have it. the president of the united states with prime minister alma aky. our guests are still with us. >> i was struck with something the prime minister said. i wasn't sure if he was using the word will or we. i wrote it down as best as i could. people who believe that when americans leave iraq, we will be in chaos, he said, declared. we or will proven them wrong. the point he is making is that given what we've seen in the last year, this is going to turn out to be a stable country when it is left in the hands of the iraqis themselves. >> he has to say that. he is the one who is leading that country right now. he is going to try to instill some confidence as they are

moving forward. we heard president obama himself say there are going to be some tough days ahead. no question, there are going to be. this is still a country divided along religious lines. both of these leaders addressed that. >> did you get the sense as you were listening to these two men that they are confident that this thing, will, in the end, work out? i could show you poll after poll that shows that americans are very, very uncertain about this. >> obviously, polls are one thing. they have to project confidence. the prime minister, he is trying get his security forces and his citizens to understand that we have to take control of our own destiny. at the same time, americans also have to hear that kind of statement because the last thing that we want to see are our troops being pulled out, something blows up and all of the sudden, we have to go back in. so this transfer of authority is critically important as they take on pore responsibility. that builds confidence as well.

>> we've got a lot of stuff going on. among those, we have john boehner. he is coming out and going to rebut the president's health care plan. there is senator mitch mcconnell of kentucky. the subject du jour, is health care and it certainly should be the subject. i continue to hear suggestions that members of the republican conference and the senate are not for health care. i can't find a single member who is not for trying to improve america's health care system. most all of us agree with the american people who overwhelmingly say in polls that they like the quality but they are concerned about the cost and the access and of course cost and access are related issues. the administration does continue to mention these unnamed people who seem not to want to make progress on this. i have been unable to find

anyone. not a single, solitary seoul ou in favor of no action. what we do think is that we ought to target the problems. there are ways to do that that could be achieved, i think, on a large, bipartisan basis. for example, why should we, any longer, tolerate junk lawsuits against doctors and hospitals? example, why would we not want to incentive adviize plans like safeway plan that demonstrates you can cap the cost of health care to incentiveize your employees to go after health problems, smoking, obesity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, lack of exercise. they have demonstrated that by incentivizing their employees to

change their behavior, they can have an impact. we know that one of the reasons we have such a large number of uninsured is because if you are an individual purchasing health care, it is not deductible on your tax return. if your company is providing it for you, it's deductible on the corporate tax return. why would we not want to equalize the tax treatment for individuals and corporations? these are the kinds of things that would have a positive impact on improving the cost issue and access. i noticed that the cbo director was sort of called down to the white house yesterday. it strikes me as somewhat akin to the owner of the team asking the umpires to come up to the owner's box. if the cbo is to have credibility, they are the umpire. they are not players in this game. i don't think we ought to be

tampering with an organization that is arguably controlled by the majority here in congress and nevertheless tries to function as an independent arbiter and estimator of the cost of what we do. so we look forward to being able to move a health care proposal this year on a truly bipartisan basis and one that doesn't increase the deficit, one that doesn't put the government in charge of our health care, one that doesn't produce a system that in the end delays care in many instances and denies care and in order to do that, would be rationing care. i don't think the american people want any of that, nor should we be trying to pass it. with that, let michal on my friend and colleague. >> let me thank you, senator mcconnell for your work over in the senate and your work really with your republican colleagues in the house on dealing with the issues that are coming at us

like a machine gun. listen, the american people want us to work together to reform health care in america so that it costs less and we can then provide better access for more americans. i think, as americans look today what they see is big government control and a plan they don't support. tonight, we will hear the president likely repeat some of the myths that he has been repeating over the last several months. first, he will say, if you like your plan, you can keep it. clearly, under the congressional budget office, 23 million americans will be forced out of their private health insurance into a government-run plan. louin and associates estimate that number could be as high as 114 million people. he will say that the democrat plan will reduce health care

costs in america but it's pretty clear that the director of the congressional budget office says the health care curve not only will not decrease, that the health care curve will increase. at a time when we are trying to get the cost out of the system, there is nothing in their proposal that will reduce costs in our health care system. i don't know how you can spend $1.6 trillion over the next ten years and say that we are going to spend lesson health care. president is likely to say that any plan that passes will not add to the deficit. well, the congressional budget office has made clear that the plan that is on the table in the house will increase the size of the deficit by $239 billion over the next ten years. beyond all this, the white house, chief of staff, this morning, said that the president, he was reviewing the president's speech when he said

that the president is likely to say that we have rescued the economy. well, i don't like to ask my folks back in ohio where the unemployment rate is at 11.2%, whether they have been rescued by their economy. if they try to fix our health care system like they have tried to rescue our economy, i think we are in really, really big trouble. listen, it is time for the president to scrap the plan that they have been working on in the house. it's time to bring both parties together to have real health care reform that will reduce the cost of the system. will reduce the cost of health insurance for americans and provide better access. >> questions. [ inaudible question ]

>> well, as i said earlier, i'm not aware of a single member of our conference, not one, who is not in favor of doing health care reform, in a very positive way and for one plan or another. there are plans that are around. so, you know, we want to do the right thing here. this is not about the president. i think there are some that think everything is about the president. this is about the country and about a huge issue that affects all of our lives and our health and is 16% of our economy. in a country of 300 million people, obviously, the representatives may have some different points of view about the best way to fix the problem. this is not about any individual. this is about the issue and taking the time to get it right as leader boehner indicated. we had an experience with rushing a major bill earlier

this year. it said we had to get the stimulus through yesterday. with interest, that's going to be about a trillion dollars. we are spending $100 million a day in interest on it. it was sold to those who enthus yacht particularly embraced it as a way to keep unemployment from going above 8%. now, it is headed to 10%. in kentucky, its 10.9%. we don't need a do-over of that kind of procedure. this is too important to be rushed. we need to take our time and do it right. [ inaudible question ] >> i hate to repeat what i just said but this is about getting a policy right. this is about getting the policy right. we don't wish anyone ill. we want to get the policy right. [ inaudible question ]

>> we have plenty of discussions but in the end, the question en question is how bipartisan is the product. i mean, we've had plenty of interaction with the president. i like him. he's a good man. but the test of whether or not this is a bipartisan product will be the product itself. [ inaudible ] >> we've just learned that -- here's what we're going to do. bill burton has just told us he's going to join us. he's the deputy press secretary for the president of the united states. we're going to give him an opportunity to respond to what these fine senators have said, scrapping -- one congressman and one senator, thanks for the catch, angie -- about scrapping the plan, as john boehner suggested, about junk lawsuits, about the incentive plans and about mitch mcconnell saying there just moments ago that this

is not about the president. this is about policy. all those when we come back and roland martin stays with us as well. by the way, before we go to break, i should let you know that tonight we're going to be running a special that you need to know about. this is the continuation of "black in america." it's "black in america 2." starts at 7:00 p.m., and then the president speaks at 8:00. you'll be seeing that right here. a lot of you have been twittering me asking when this will get started. gecko vo: geico's the third-largest car insurance company in the nation. but, it's not like we're kicking back, now, havin' a cuppa tea. gecko vo: takes lots of sweat to become that big. gecko vo: 'course, geckos don't literally sweat... it's just not our thing...

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with over 130 years of experience. welcome back. i'm rick sanchez here at the world headquarters of cnn. bill burton is the deputy press secretary for the president of the united states. he's good enough to join us now. he's going to be talking about some of the things he just heard. i take it you were able to hear these two lawmakers. right? >> reporter: i heard a little bit of it. i didn't hear the full context of their statement. >> let's start at the back then when senator mitch mcconnell, minority leader, said that, look, this is not about the president. this is about policy. is he belied by the comments

made the other day about this being republicans' watter loo? >> reporter: i think if you've seen the strategy memos from the other side, people who are opponents of reform aren't necessarily viewing it from a substantive standpoint. it's been political in large part. there are people who are working constructively towards reform and we think we've been able to make a lot of progress with them and if we don't, this country is in a lot of trouble. >> do you think that the republicans -- are you on the record saying you think many republicans are just trying to use this as an axe to get at the president or that they're serious about the policies of this country? >> reporter: well, you don't have to believe me if you look at what senator demint said. we have to stop him, this will be his waterloo, if we don't stop this, it will break him. you don't eve haven't to put me on the record. opponents have said this is risky to go forward with health care reform. but what's risky is continuing

down the same path that leads to higher costs that have grown faster than inflation, faster than wages, and forcing some 14,000 americans off their health insurance every single day. if we don't change it, then we're going to have a major fiscal and economic problem. >> bill, let me ask you this question. john boehner said the president, he said, i'll quote him here, i wrote it down, scrap the plan. the president needs to scrap this house plan. that sounds pretty definitive. he's saying then, you know, when you scrap something, it ain't no good. i mean, ice trash. you've got to get rid of it. what's the white house reaction to that? >> let me say that change is hard, and this is something that we've been trying for some 50 years in this country to get comprehensive health care reform. the president has been in office for six months. he's had constructive conversations and has been working with republicans and democrats, and we're at a point right now where we're as close to health care reform as we've ever been in this country. we've got the doctors, the

nurses, the hospital, even the aarp, folks opposed to health care reform the last time around, all on board. this last test is tough. we're not scrapping the idea of making sure we bring down costs and get americans covered. we're moving forward to we can get on a more sustainable path. >> for what it's worth, i was just handed some new information. this comes in from speaker nancy pelosi, who's also -- let me get this thing up here. nancy pelosi, who's also responding to what john boehner said. speaker pelosi said wednesday, she intends to move forward with a vote on health care reform and indicated the democrats may keep the house in session now past its scheduled summer break if needed. so, wow, that's the first time i'm hearing this. what can you tell us about this, bill? >> reporter: well, it's obviously encouraging that the house is continuing to move forward and importantly a quick pace in order to get health reform done. we're sort of in the middle of this process, and once the house

and senate passes, they'll be back in the fall to work out the final details. but what's important to the president about this is we get all the best ideas on board about cutting costs, about getting americans covered and importantly about keeping it deficit neutral. >> i think it was senator mitch mcconnell who i heard -- and mark preston, if you're out there, you can back me up on this -- he was talking about incentivizing and that we can do that with american business people, that we don't need the government to come in and do this. and he was talking about how corporations and his plan should be able to just get people to stop smoking and exercise more, and these are things that corporations can do and employers can do. one wonders if they haven't been able to have success with that in the past, and this is what sanjay gupta was saying, preventive care is what we don't do well in this country, what makes us think they can get them to do it now? is that something you can consider? it's a great idea if we can make

it work. >> reporter: this is one of the reasons we're moving forward with health care reform. the ways we've tried haven't work. one good idea under consideration to bring down costs is making med tax stronger, this idea of imac which would take a look at some of the best practices in terms of costs, in terms of testing, and all across the board and see how we can duplicate that in other areas around the country. if you look at certain places like the the mayo clinic, you've got a place where you're getting more for less. if we can duplicate those kind of efforts around the country, we can severely bring down the cost of health care. >> mark, you still out there? >> sure am, rick. >> hearing some of the arguments about socialized medicine and universal health care and how much this is like what bill and hillary clinton tried to do. down to 90 seconds. is that part of the drumbeat that's going to be hard for this white house to overcome? >> the bottom line, it comes down to money and that's the big sticking point. as we heard both john boehner

and mitch mcconnell, this would be a government-run health care plan and republicans are going to fight against that. so, the biggest fight for the white house now is really about costs. >> well, how about that, bill? i mean, mark just put his finger on it and i heard that today as well. i heard a conversation with dr. tom coburn today, senator tom coburn from oklahoma, and he seemed to be saying the same thing that if the government doesn't do these things well, why should we let them get involved now? >> reporte >> well, the private industry hasn't done things well in the past 50 years either. costs have gone up twice the rate of inflation. >> is that because of greed? >> no. i think there are just some inefficiencies in the situation that we can address through a whole variety of measures being put forth by these ideas on capitol hill. but the president has said he will not sign a bill that does not do something to bring costs under control, that is not deficit neutral and doesn't accomplish what he says is important, which is making sure every american has access to health