>> larry: tonight, born into the wrong body. cher's firstborn used to be chastity, now chaz is focusing attention on sexual identity, and the confusion, conflict and agony it can cause. >> it's very important to me that people accept me as a transgendered female. >> alexis arquette made the transition from man to woman with the help of her famous supportive family. she's here, along with a former reality show contestant, the mayor of an american town, and a

13-year-old with his mom. they know something about transgender issues firsthand. their brains tell them one thing, their bodies say something else. then jon and kate's sextuplets have got some competition. meet the new kids on the block. next on "larry king live." i'm dr. drew pinsky sitting in for larry king. chaz bono is not the only high-profile case of someone transitioning to another sex. actress alexis arquette was born a boy. her documentary, "she's my brother," was featured at the tribeca film festival. dr. gary alter is a plastic surgeon and expert in general reconstruction. both of them can help us understand what this is all about. alexis, how do you feel about chaz's preparing for surgery and

how he -- i should call him, he? >> him. i believe that he came out as a transgendered male, but i also think that he said he didn't want to be interviewed anymore about it. full stop? he is a transgendered male, and i think we need to respect his privacy at this time. >> so, we should stop talking about it? >> i think we can talk about the issue. but i think it's really common for people to believe that it's all right to ask really uncomfortable questions to transgendered people. >> people ask you lots of uncomfortable questions? >> absolutely. it's above and beyond the things people say on the streets that you don't know. >> bad things? >> yeah. also if you're meeting somebody that you know and it's not a bad thing, they feel often that it's okay to ask you if you're pre-op, post-on. these questions are, i mean, really there's only reason to ask about what's in someone's pants or skirt and that it's not -- and that's not to discriminate against them certainly. >> okay, let's get away from that a bit and talk about the issue of being a celebrity and undergoing this procedure. does that make it more difficult? >> i don't think it's more

difficult for people who are either raised in families of celebrities or celebrities themselves. i think, if anything, we've been prepared to deal with press and media. but i think it's more an exposing-type thing. because it's not about your work. it's not about what, you know, you want to contribute as an entertainer or your family has. it's only about your very personal identity issue. >> do you know chaz? >> i've met chaz, and, you know, i've always felt that -- i mean, you can't judge people on the way they look. there's certainly a lot of people that are a different group of transgenders and i consider them just as genuine. people that choose alter egos and consider themselves no cross-dressers, oftentimes most of them are heterosexual males. >> okay. >> and i just feel like, you know, if someone comes out and says, hi, world, family, friends, media, i'm transgendered, you know, at that point if they go any deeper, it's really -- it gets a little perverse.

it gets a little sideshow freakish. >> so we should leave it as -- here's what his publicist says. here is chaz's publicist. he confirmed that -- so, he's interested in talking about it. >> yeah. >> to open people up, to be more tolerant about this issue, it seems. >> right. i'm happy to speak about it to anyone, even if it's somebody i don't know. but i certainly -- i have boundaries, limits. >> so, your personal experience is something you prefer to keep off-limits. >> yeah. >> his mom, chaz's mom, cher, had this to say -- that's pretty nice, right? >> yeah. >> that's what you're looking for from your family. >> but she also said a couple of

things which made me a little worried. she said she'd strive to understand. that's all you can expect from someone. >> may i ask you how your family reacted? >> you know, the thing is, i was in a pretty liberal family. i mean, i wore makeup since i was 12. but they weren't in denial so much as their fear was that if i came out as a transgendered and lived my life as a woman, i might receive a lot of flak from people on the street and -- >> and it's been okay? >> -- even violence. >> has it okay? >> anybody who has seen my reality show called "real life" would know that i've had a hard time always holding back when it comes to my anger toward people's unacceptance of those who are different. >> now, you decided to go ahead and create a documentary about your experience. >> certainly did. >> given that you wanted to keep this personal, i'm a little confused -- >> yeah. >> -- why if you want to be personal, you decided to do a documentary. >> well, i wanted to do a documentary just on myself and taking the path. i met with dr. gary alter here and he was wonderful and i learned a lot. >> are you trying to open the

topic up for chazs for the public? >> the topic, i even -- he did a physical examination of me. i left them film that. but i said of full stop, i'm not going to go any further than that. because why would you need to know? the fact of the matter is, living as a woman is different than living as a man, but i want to be equal to everyone else. how do you treat a woman differently than a man? open a door for her? that's kind of '50s. i think that stuff is over. >> and dr. alter is here with us, the surgen who did your surgery. and you courageously documented some component on film and it's called "alexis ar quet, she's my brother." is that correct? let's take a look at this. >> i remember the first time i ever saw a transsexual. >> where was it? >> it was in chicago and we were really little. i must have been like 6 or 7 and you were probably 4 or 5. >> where was it at? >> it was at a coffee shop and we had to go pee, and mom took us to the bathroom and there was this transsexual in there. mom was freaked out. mom was like no, no, no, no, no!

that's not okay! you can't go in there, oh, my god! and it's really stuck with me, that moment. because when you started developing and you started finding yourself and -- >> uh-huh. >> -- i wondered if that was a traumatic moment for you. >> the beginning of my documentary, i was totally at odds that i needed to be monitored by anybody. but talk to me a little bit about harry benjamin and the protocol. >> the important thing, i think the bottom line of what alexis says is that -- is that transsexualism is an identity thing. it really is not a sexual thing. it's what you feel yourself to be. she feels, has, since a child to be a woman. so, whether she undergoes surgery or not is somewhat irrelevant. the public may get some kind of a -- of a joy out of knowing whether or not she had the surgery. >> it's confusing for people who are not familiar with it. >> right. >> so, why do the surgery? >> the surgery, to make you feel more complete. >> so, some people want it, some don't is basically it.

>> correct. some it's really a desperate thing where they have visions of mutilating themselves. they really have a genuine hate for their bodies. and -- >> does that go away after the procedures? >> yes, it does. some people come in having tried to castrate themselves. and then also some people undergo the surgery to be able to have sex like their chosen sex. when we come back, we'll meet a man who used to be a woman. and he has something about this, or if you have something to say about this or any other topic go to cnn.com/larryking. click on "blog" and have your say. stay with us. day .and 't std.no. tome b betrl dalod it's nosi an k my airws op. hp bhe br a's not oi nouneepsrwayen.. el brehe brl dangand 'not ster unceps mairwop.. elp mereheettealdalo. el brehe brl dangand 'not ster ceiteepsaiayen.. d 's sterd. tome brehe brl y lo. an's a eroid. noun kee mrways en helmeat betr. ceiteepsaiayen.. d 's sterd. and'noa std.noun kee my rwop elp bhe bterl day noiteepsairwen. it't a stoid. elp bhe bterl day toel brehe braly lo. noiteepsairwen. anits not oid.annoceeepsy r. i'not oid.annoceitpsy airwayen.. p me b betall day ng ani'a eroi i'not oid.annoceitpsy airwayen.. ce keey airwen..y ng to hp batterall y ng and s steroi anceitee mrwayen. hel brehe brl. ani'not std. anceitee mrwayen. hel brehe brl. to h breetterwen... dalo d i's not er anceitee mrwayen. hel brehe brl. anun kee my ays ...toel bree anits nostoi top mereheetteall daloand 'e day 's t er anno kee mairwop.. to h breat braly lo annoceee mrwayop.. d 's noa oi toelmeat bte aldalo.ani'noa oi noun kpsy rws

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our next guest was on "larry king live" almost two years ago when he hadn't quite finished his transformation. brian salins joins us again here tonight. brian was born a female but at the age of 25 began a long, complicated journey to become a man. so, ryan, where are you now with it? >> i guess i am what you would consider a post-op transsexual. >> so you've completed the transformation? >> yeah. >> you've had the lower surgery? >> yeah. >> chest, face, adams apple. there's other things you do other than the genitalia? >> i've had the chest surgery and the hysterectomy and the lower surgery. i didn't have to do anything with the adam's apple or facial reconstruction because the testosterone builds that on top of my body.

>> what made you want to have the surgery? >> how would you feel it you didn't have your penis? >> we were talking before that some people feel they need to do it, some don't. >> i felt emotionally complete when i was on "larry king live" last time. but for my physical completeness, i didn't feel that i would be complete unless i could stand and pee. that was important to me. >> to be able to stand and urinate, that's how you knew you had completed the transformation. so, you went ahead and had the surgery. are you dating right now? >> i've been in a relationship for five years with my -- >> significant other? >> well, she's my honey. i call her my honey. >> did you ever think you were gay? >> no. not gay. i thought i was a lesbian for about eight months when i first started dating my partner. >> this is where i get a little confused. that's different from gay? >> well, he's a male now, so sometimes transgendered males, transmen are attracted to other

men. >> and i know that a lot of female -- males to females i've treated oftentimes still have lesbian relationships afterwards. that's common, dr. alter? >> it is common. what you have to understand is that when you get into the situation where you're dealing with transgender, they don't look at sex as like we do. they look more at the person and the relationship, okay? so, a lot of times they may not be so interested in what sex the partner is, but they're more interested in the person. so he, i would call him straight, because he's into female, he's into women. >> a transgender straight male. >> right. but it blurs. he wouldn't even call himself straight. okay? because, more importantly, he's into another person that he has a meaningful relationship with. >> got it. >> and if you ask a lot of male to females, which i have, i've talked to them. i said, what do you look for? are you looking for a man or are you looking for a woman? commonly i get the response that it doesn't matter so much. i'm looking for a person that i

can connect with. >> let's dial it back and talk about your family of origin. have they been accepting? have they been supportive? >> my brother who is nine years older than me was supportive from the get-go. my sister has come around. and my parents, it's taken about four years, but i feel, even since the last time i was on this show, they have swung to a more positive side. my dad actually refers to me as ryan now, which is a huge step. >> did you ever wonder why this happened to you? >> it just happened. i don't know. >> but, i mean, as a kid, were you ever wondering, why me, why has this happened? is it confusing, alexis? >> a lot of parents would say, i remember you dressing up in the other gender. i want parents out there to know that it's totally natural for kids to make believe and play games. it does not mean your child is going to be transgendered. and even if it were true, why is it such a horrible thing? >> well, it shouldn't be. ryan, presently are people accepting? do people know about your transgendered status? do you feel comfortable with how you are being received?

>> it's interesting being asked because of the way the testosterone mask lizs you. i could live stealth and no one would ever know i was born a female. >> so i guess my question would be so then, what, is it important for you to be identified or would you rather not be? it's an interesting question, right? because sometimes you want to stand up and say, this is what i've done, on the other hand, maybe not. >> i wouldn't run down the hall screaming i'm trans, but i am an out transman. because i think it's important to tell the story to take away the freakish part of the story. >> the stigmaization. interesting. >> yeah. next, an "america's top model" contestant, we'll find out how she's doing now in 60 seconds. keeps my airways open.. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways.

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engagement. she joins us now. thanks for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. you apparently prefer the phrase born in the wrong body rather than transgender. why is that? >> well, actually, i prefer woman, because that's what i identify myself as. but as far as the whole transition, i prefer born in the wrong body, because i was a woman who was born in a body of a male. >> does the term transgender trouble you in some way or -- >> i just really don't prefer it. i don't know -- i don't know exactly what it is. but as far as, like, the term transsexual, i just totally don't prefer at all. transgender, you know, i guess i'm just kind of seeing myself as this is something that i went through, and now i am complete. i'm not saying that everyone to has to have the surgery, but for myself this is my completion and i am a woman. >> and you feel very good about this? you feel like it was a good thing? >> yes, i do.

>> so, let's address this. what was it like when you were a contestant on "america's top model" and you were transitioning, what was it like? >> it was a hard experience considering that i had to worry about other things that the other girls didn't have to. but, you know, i still tried to, like, think about winning the competition and that was the main objective. so, i tried not to really think about it and talk about it. although it looked like i talked about it -- talked about it a lot on the show, you know, i just tried to compete and hoped that all the girls would view me the same way as everyone else. >> let's take a look at your final day on "america's next top model." >> isis, what happened? you were supposed to go so far. the girl that we saw in those photos last season is not here. she's disappeared in her pictures, and she's disappeared in personality. but if you want to be a model, you can, and you're already an inspiration for the gay, lesbian, transgendered, bisexual community. did i get that right? i think i said them right, didn't? >> yes, you did, honey. yes, you did.

>> you have to know that. you need to work on those eyes or else you'll just be wah-wah. >> isis, is it true tyra banks was involved in funding the procedure? >> yes. tyra found dr. bowers, and, you know, made the whole thing possible between the two of them, so that was a very big blessing for me, because i had no idea it was going to happen. so, yes, i'm very blessed to have both of them. >> how long did it procedure take you? what was the recovery time like? how much did it cost? >> well, the procedure -- the procedure, itself, was about 3 1/2 to 4 hours. the recovery time, the full recovery, was three months. i am just coming up on four months, and it's, like, next week. and for dr. bowers, i think the price is, if i'm not mistaken, have been rose. are going to rise. but somewhere between $18,000 and maybe $24,000. >> when your patients do select to have this surgery, when that's important to them, do you feel like you've done something

important to them that changes their live in a positive way? >> oh, absolutely, so positive. many of them feel like this is their rebirth. >> it is. >> and for somebody like him, oftentimes the female to males, what they want is their chest surgery. they have breasts and they can't integrate in society with breasts. so, a lot of transgenders who are female to males, all they want is the chest surgery, and they don't want anything with their genitals. in fact, that's the main, the largest numbers. >> i wanted to say, drew, before we go that, you know, i'm really proud to be a transgendered female. you know, it's okay for isis to feel like a woman. she is a woman. she's a transgendered woman, and where whole life she will be that. we need to know that we have pride in the people that we are. some people pass. some people it's very important to them. to me when i walk down the street, i'm totally okay with being recognized as a transgendered female. >> isis, last comment? >> and i think also, you know, i know with the -- with the circumstances are, but, you

know, there are people that feel different ways. you know, i'm not trying to say that i'm not proud of my whole transition, because obviously i wouldn't put it public. but, you know, there are some people that prefer this or that, but i know that i've always been a woman, so this is just what i prefer to identify myself as. >> and our thanks tonight, and me personally to dr. alter to his expertise. everyone else is staying with us. silverton, oregon's mayor is making waves, not for his politics, but because of this. he lives as a woman. we'll meet the mayor after this. . to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways.

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welcome back. silveren to, oregon's, mayor is the first openly transgendered mayor in the united states. stu rasmussen is here to talk with us about his unique situation at city hall and at home. also joining us is michelle golland, clinical psychologist

and contributor to momlogic.com. thank you, guys, for joining us. stu, to you first. >> yes, sir? >> do you identify -- where do you identify yourself in this spectrum you've been talking about tonight? >> there's male and there's female and there's short and there's tall. i'm somewhere in between. >> do you identify as heterosexual? >> absolutely. >> you're heterosexual and it's more of a cross-dressing or cross -- >> it sorts to get to be a curiosity. i appear to be a female. like females, am i a lesbian and male or male and straight? it just kind of rattles around in your head for a while. >> that's why i get confused. people in your town i understand think very highly of you. have they pushed back at all or had any reaction to your identification publicly as a woman? >> i think we did the transition fairly slowly and people had the chance to go, what's going on with stu? >> which is something i imagine they said before the gender issues. >> oh, yeah.

absolutely. >> so they're used to seeing you as a trickster. >> yeah, a little bit. and actually, very few people ask me about it, but my life partner, victoria, got lots of questions from people. what's stu doing? what's going on there? >> why stop where you stopped? >> i got to a point where i've got exactly the body i want. i like what i see in the mirror. i didn't see any need to do anything further. i like -- i mean, it seems like it's a family show, but i like the sexual aspects of being a male and i like the appearance aspects -- >> how about your partner? >> i have to be honest and say although i look like i'm 45 years old, i'm actually 60. and that end of the relationship, it's more a -- it's not a sexual relationship anymore. >> is -- it's a she, yes, victoria? >> she is very much a she. yeah. >> has she had a reaction to your transformation at all? has she had something to say about it? >> well, this is certainly something we discussed, you know, before doing it. it was like, honey, i'd really like cleavage. she said okay. so, that was about the extent of

the discussion. and she'd known i was a cross-dresser for years and had sort of put up with my little peccadillos -- >> i see. so, it was something she'd become accustomed with you and this is more of that? >> this is more of that. and we are two exceedingly compatible people and we're deeply in love and it's the best relationship on the planet. >> doctor, people tend to get confused. because in this program we're talking about gender and sexuality as two separate topics and they're both kind of on the move here at this desk tonight and i think it con fuses people. how do we understand it? >> i think it's important to understand that sexual orientation is different from sexual identity. is different from gender identity. sexual orientation is one longing and romantic and passionate, connective feeling. >> your drives. >> your drives toward either the same sex or the opposite sex or both sexes or no sex. i mean, or not. >> and gender identity? >> and gender identity is an enduring sense of self.

i am a female. i feel myself to be a female. right? but transgendered people have the physical parts of a male, but their gender identity and what they feel inside is female. >> got you. we're going to continue this conversation with a brave, 15-year-old and his mother. they're here. their moving story about his life. the identity issues that they are both confronting. this is next. you really need it these days. how come? well if you're hurt and can't work it pays you cash... yeah to help with everyday bills like gas, the mortgage... ...and groceries. it's like insurance for daily living. so...what's it called? uhhhhh aflaaac!!!! oh yeah! that's it! aflac. we've got you under our wing. a-a-a-aflaaac!

and welcome back. we're joined now by 15-year-old ryan and his mother fran. ryan was born a girl and went by the same of sara until recently. friends use male pronouns when referring to him but mom still calls ryan her daughter.

thank you for joining us, you guys. >> thanks for having us. >> now, ryan, you're 15, is that correct? >> yes. i'm 15. >> do you get disturbed when your mom still refers to you as a female? >> sometimes i say "he" under my breath or -- but i don't know. i can't really correct her now. >> when did you realize you were different? >> when i was a little kid, i realized that something was just missing. i didn't really feel complete. >> did you say something to your mom right away or your dad, and if you did, how did you do that? >> no, i didn't say anything to anyone. i kept to myself. >> was that hard? >> not really, because i didn't really know exactly what it was. i thought it was a normal thing to feel. >> when did you first realize what this was? >> i think two years ago

someone -- i met someone who was transgendered, and i was, like, well, that must be what i am. that's how i feel. >> and fran, mom, what was your reaction when i guess i should say sara to you, when sara came to you about this issue? >> i have to say i was supportive. i did tell her that there's really not much that could be done about that right now, and maybe it's better to kind of put it on the back burner and not worry so much about what your gender is. >> did you know what she was talking about at the time? >> no, i really didn't understand so much. at first she came out to me as being lesbian, and that really was not a very big deal to me at all. you know, it's my child, and no matter how she feels, i will always love her and be supportive of her. >> but as a parent, it's -- but parenting is a tough job and you can be sort of anxious about

being a child -- about having a child, so i would imagine when sara came to you about this, it provoked some anxiety. how did she present it, and how did you react? >> she brought it to me by calling me outside to sit on the front porch, and she was crying. sobbing. crying. because she feels different. and by different, what do you mean by different? so, she expressed to me that she feels that she is a boy trapped in a girl's body. and -- >> ryan, was that tough? i imagine that was very painful. >> yes. i was crying a lot. i really didn't know how to tell my mom, but i just felt like at that moment i had to tell her. >> do you want to have a surgery to have your gender status reassigned, ryan? >> eventually, i'd like to get top surgery, but i'm not so sure about bottom surgery, just because technology hasn't really

advanced that much yet. >> and then, mom, how do you feel about that? >> yeah, whatever she feels comfortable doing. >> do you ever worry that -- >> i just want her to be happy. >> i understand that. of course, we all do as parents. but it's got to be confusing, you know, anxiety provoking. and do you ever worry that this is a phase and she'll regret having the surgery? >> i do think it could be a phase. it's when you're 15, you know, the world is a little bit confusing. >> well, and it's -- >> just for your average 15-year-old. >> fran, it's interesting when you responded that way, several of our panelists here in the studio sort of cringed like no, this is something we lived with our whole life. so we're going to continue talking about that. as a parent i can understand why you think maybe it will change or maybe it will go away. but it is something that does tend to persist. i want to thank both of you and wish you the best of luck. ryan, it's pretty cool having a mom that you can go to and loves you to matter what, so you've got a good situation there. >> thank you. >> you're quite welcome.

and we are talking about the transgender world and hope you get a better understanding of what this is all about. so, dr. golland, our panel is still here, obviously. i want to pick up the conversation where we left off with fran and ryan, which is what to do with adolescents that begin to step up with these symptomotologies. >> when your child is a teenager and they come to you with this, you've done something right as a parent. >> the fact that they feel open enough to come to you. that's enormous. so you have to really, really accept that they are sort of unburden themselves. and that they feel safe enough with you to do so. >> is it a phase? >> i would say most likely no. >> you guys, the panel, agree? >> well, i mean, no, it's not a phase. >> isis says no, she's still with us.

did you guys ever go to a period where you presented to someone and said, oh, you'll be okay, family, friends? >> my experience, it wasn't necessarily with me, but somebody i hired to work in my business who claimed to be transsexual and she at the time was 17 or 18 and was surgery tracked and ready to go. and two years later, i ran across her, and he had fathered a couple of children and was back as a male. >> well, i've seen some data that sometimes in psychotherapy people lose the desire for therapy. isis, you said, yes, people told you it was just a phase? >> you hear that. especially i'm, like, i'm african-american in our culture, let alone being gay, being born in the wrong body is something really not heard of until now, so, of course, you hear things like it's a phase and you're going to get through it. and i'm, like, no it's not a phase. but it's something you have to tell yourself and that's the thing you don't really have to prove to others. you have to figure for yourself that that's just really for you.

so, i get that obviously. >> i'm going to go around the table now and get some final thoughts. alexis? >> it's very important to me that people accept me as a transgendered female, but it's ridiculous to a lot of people and i understand that. men and women are very, very similar. i think the closer we can get to one another, the more we'll understand a lot of these issues. >> brian? >> i think it's interesting, because growing up a female, if you're a tomboy, that's acceptable, versus growing up and being more effeminate, you're a sissy. >> pejorative term. >> i was accepted as a tomboy growing up, but it wasn't good enough for me. there was something that wasn't feeling right. i was fortunate at age 24 to understand that i was transgendered and move forward with it. >> stu? >> i grew up being a nerd, so i didn't worry about being described as a sissy. where i am right now, i'm having more fun than a drunken cowboy with a brand new pickup. >> isis, you get the very final

thought. >> i'm happy that this topic is coming up more and more, because there are so many young people that even come to me and tell me that, you know, this is the way they feel but they're scared to tell their parents. i'm happy it's out there more, the more you see i, the more you realize it is normal and that people are born like this and it will be easier for the next generation to come up and tell their parents. like the young guy on here, like, when i was 15, i couldn't -- i couldn't do that. i didn't come out and tell my mother until i was 20. by that time i was already finished college and ready to move out and move to new york, so, you know, i'm happy that the children are able to do that now. and hopefully with this and with more other shows and just being out there more, that it will be easier. >> well, i think you're right. this has been a very, very interesting discussion. i want to thank all of you for being here and being so open. and now move over jon and kate. we're switching topics entirely. there's a new group of

sextuplets, the word "sex" is in here at least. new group of sextuplets on the block. and they are going to join us in 60 seconds. >> larry: tonight's hero is a lifesaver. andrea ivory survived breast cancer which was powerful motivation for starting the florida breast health initiative. here's andrea. >> throughout my ordeal and recovery -- going to make a difference and save some lives. i thought about those women who were losing their fight against breast cancer because they lacked access to treatment and awareness about the disease. >> larry: so, how does your program work? >> we target single family households. with median incomes of between $30,000 to $40,000 and we take teams of volunteers in. we knock door to door. we provide each household with a valuable information package. you need to know what's normal and abnormal. including the early detection guidelines for breast cancer. sites where you can get low and no-cost screenings. then when we identify a woman

who is 35 years or older, our dedicated volunteers make appointments on the spot for a free mammogram. >> larry: what's the best way to get young women to become proactive about this? >> early detection is the key. that's our mantra. that's what we herald as we go door to door. we want to make sure that every woman, first of all, is aware of the importance of breast health and they know the early detection guidelines for breast cancer. and they also have the tools to remain cancer-free. @@@@ ♪ ♪ i got troubles, oh ♪ but not today ♪ 'cause they're gonna wash away ♪ ♪ they're gonna wash away ♪

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i think i'll go with the preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. welcome back to "larry king live." i'm dr. drew pinsky, sitting in for larry tonight. thank you, larry. joining us now are the masches, mom, jendy, dad, brian, they're here. we'll meet their six children in just a bit.

they have a show called "raising sextuplets." it's on "we" tv. and the kids recently celebrated their 2nd birthday. here is a typical day if there is such a thing as a typical day when you have half a dozen kids. watch this. ♪ morning dear the sun is here in every way it gets a little better every day ♪ ♪ oh baby i love you and i love you i love you too ♪ ♪ and you and you and you and you oh baby i love you ♪ ♪ you and you and you and you and you and you whoo-hoo ♪ >> wow, they are so cute. here they are, the parents, mom -- sorry, dad, full respect to the mom because they lay themselves out in behalf of multiples. i'll ask a broad, sweeping question to start this. how do you survive this? >> lots of prayers.

>> okay. >> lots of family. and for me diet coke probably. >> diet coke. >> i was going to say great sex and great booze. >> brian! >> we'll have to get into this a little bit. the cameras are actually rolling. i'm not sure if you're aware of this. >> he is so kidding. >> i'm just kidding. >> you might turn to that one day. i understand. i will tell you a little bit more when i get to discuss my own history. i have triplets myself, so i feel very bonded to you guys. >> absolutely. >> triplet parenting is something that bonds parents together deeply. i'll tell you, brian, my hair started as your color and it turned this color after the first six months. >> i didn't have a single gray hair until a few years ago. >> the show chronicles starting about year one, is that right? >> actually, the preg -- this show? >> the sextuplets. >> yes. >> you had a previous show. right, that was sort of a documentary about your pregnancy? >> yes, a one-hour documentary.

>> did it go through the delivery and the first six months or so? >> yes. >> the first six months were the most fairly survivable i'll call it. >> totally. >> because people don't appreciate it, there is always somebody awake. in your case not somebody, but usually two somebodys. how did you get through the first six months? >> it was really, really tough. the toughest thing was our marriage. you're exhausted. you have the six little people who are in need 24/7 and we just didn't know how to get along. because it was just was overwhelming. so, it's kind of a blur now that they're 2. >> yeah, yeah. >> but i do remember just trying to make it through every minute, you know? okay, let's make it one more minute. okay, one more hour. okay, one more day. >> it is survival mode. survival mode, huh? and when we come back, should the masches be worried about the presence of tv cameras in their children's lives? that's what they're up against. we'll talk about that next. and'. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long.

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when there's six, it's just crowd control and refereeing fights and trying to keep them happy, it's a lot of work when you're older. >> all the kids, they got muddy and dirty and nasty and i wasn't having any part of that. >> we are talking to the ma shays about their new show which features their six children. sextuplets. now, i've got triplets so i know something about multiples. but for me it's even hard to imagine six baybies all at once because i know how impossible triplets are. given the mess around "jon & kate plus 8," a lot of attention on them, a lot of concern of what the cameras have done to the kids. do you have those concerns? worried about bringing cameras into your lives? >> dr. drew, we have a little bit differing opinion. i'm not as worried as jenny is i think. our cameras are only around five days out of the month.

six to eight hours a day. they work completely around the children's nap schedule, their feeding schedules. it's really quite different. in fact, i think really the only thing we have similar is the fact we are parents of sextuplets. it doesn't bother me. >> the jon and kate series they follow them all the time. is that right? yours, it's a very isolated, contained -- >> that's their job. we have full-time jobs. this is like a fun dult documentary on the side. >> you have no ill feelings about the experience. what do you say people who say it's ex-ploy tative to kids to put them on tv like that? >> i think i don't feel that way at all. my kids are my life. if i felt for one skd it was exploitive, we wouldn't do it. but for us, i know that growing up -- say it i was 10 years old and we had documentaries growing up as a child, professional footage, i think i would think

it's really cool. it's an opportunity very few people get to experience in their lifetime. >> nothing is taken away from them as a result of the cameras? are you paid for it? >> there is modest compensation. you don't get compensated for interviews and news events. there's is compensation involved for the series. >> i hope so. multiple parenting -- >> you have to have a little. helps me. i'm working 12 days a month instead of 17 days a month. >> you're the primary breadwinner of the family? >> we both are. >> you're a physician's assistant. >> i'm in pharmaceutical sales. >> how do you balance work? do you difficulty determining who stays home and who works? >> we've been pretty lucky. we have a really great support structure with family and friends. she works nights at the emergency room. i work during the days. she goes to -- >> i have to stop you there. people -- the -- we'll speak disparingly about the single parents. the single parents think somebody stays home and somebody goes to work. with multiples you're never man

to man, you're always in a zone and it's a zone defense. but the best -- i mean, the -- you go below four on six, it starts to get unsafe. who's in there with you all the time? is it just family or is community that comes in? >> just family and friends. in the very, very beginning we had people from our church that would come over and help out. >> think about it. normally when people have a singlet, there's two parents or parents and one child. you need 12 people to do that. you laugh, but -- >> we get really good at it. i'm home alone with them during the day. i can do it. you know, you have -- >> i handle it in the evening. >> we have safety measures. you have doors they can't get into, doors that are locked. you have a backyard that has a wall. there's no way to get out. >> i understand what you're saying. fence everything out. pad everything and turn them loose. >> corral them all in. >> aren't you worried people become critical? saying you're not doing enough

parenting, not involved enough? >> i'm with them, all six of them, at all -- i don't ever get anything done until they go to bed. >> you're looking at the sextuplets in the green room. meet savannah, bailey, molly, grant, cole, and blake. when we come back. stick around. day ng it's a sterd.announit kps m. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a ster... to helat btel lo.and'not oi to help me breathe better all day long. ceeey d. and it's not a ster... announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways. to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announceit keeps my airways.

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savannah, be careful, honey. no. no. no. you are sitting on your sister. >> i don't think this is going to work. >> okay. i will put them on speaker. >> hi, savannah. >> and that's coal and blake and everybody --

>> hi. >> mommy's stuck. i have babies hanging off of me everywhere. >> what's the matter, molly? don't squish yourself behind there. why are you doing that? there you go. uh, uh, uh, uh, no, no. you have to keep your hands away. >> we are talking to the masches about their 2-year-old sextuplets and their show called "raising sex tiplets." joining us now -- i think i have grant and blake, don't i? >> you do. >> they are so beautiful and so happy. they are fantastic. a lot of opinion about extreme parenting. did you have any opinion about octo mom? >> i think it is overwhelming. >> that is a different situation. >> totally different. >> imagine that many kids and being a single parent. it's just oh my kbosh. >> i don't know how she's going to do it. i have no idea. >> look how beautiful these kids are. they are so well-behaved. i would like to do something for them. how about bringing out a

4 birth kay day cake to celebrate their 2nd birthday? >> whoa. >> cake. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to savannah bailey molly cole grant and blake happy birthday to you ♪ >> yay! >> happy birthday. >> baby, look at that. >> mom, we are not going to help you with the weight loss. you haven't had to lose any weight. you lost everything on the table that you gained during the pregnancy. >> yes. exactly. thank you so much, this is such a treat. >> you guys deserve a little bit. >> it is such a treat. >> thanks for joining us. thank you. >> it was such a pleasure to meet you. yours are 17. >> 17 years old. one of the best things we can do for multiple parents is show you that you can get through it, be happy, make it through and have a marriage that works and make sure you're happy and have kids that are great and healthy.

dad, one of the things that happens, speaking of the weight and carbohydrates, multiple dads tend to gain more weight. >> it happens, actually. >> it is a nesting phenomenon where dads gain weight during the woman's pregnancy. most guys are bad about this. how much did you gain? >> i gained about 35 pounds. i have taken ten off. >> mom has lost -- hasn't gained a pound. dad gains 20 pounds. >> 25, i know. >> you have to be around to put these kids through college. lose that weight. one piece of advice, somebody pregnant with multiples now should hear from you guys? you can do it. >> you can do it. not matter what. >> you are going to hit walls. you are going to take daily walls. take every single hour. don't look ahead at tomorrow. get through today. if you get through today you'll be able to get through -- >> anything about maintaining your marriage? any particular -- >> we have a few rules. that we had before we get married. >> which is? >> don't let the sun go down on your anger, go to bed in the same bed, don't spend more than

three days apart from each other. i don't have female friends that i spend time with alone. she doesn't have male friends she spends time with alone. >> we meet with our pastor. and date night. >> that's what i was going to ask about. >> huge night. date night. you have to have that. >> when you leave, did you have difficulty leaving the kids behind when you started doing that? >> it's still difficult for me. >> they'll start hanging on to your legs. >> we realize we have to be healthy for each other. if we are not healthy for each other there is no way we can be healthy for the kids. >> really the foundation of family. >> they need to learn going and coming. >> yeah. >> by the way, thank you for giving me the -- blake wants daddy. thank you for giving me the kids that don't like cake. >> that is very unusual, let me tell you. >> come here blakester. you're my buddy. >> well, you guys, thanks for joining us.