have buns. in "the situation room," john boehner, in the house, bobby jindal, the governor of louisiana. until then thanks for joining us. i'm wolf blitzer in the situation room. up next "lou dobbs tonight." lou. good evening, everybody. defiance on capitol hill. democrats refusing to be intimidated on the issue of health care. blue dog democrats demanding tough measures to cut the cost of the president's trillion dollar health care plan. president obama's poll numbers sinking. we'll examine what's driving the poll number lower. all that in our face off debate with two leading polsters. law enforcement agencies searching the home of michael jackson's personal doctor as the investigation into the pop star's death is intensifying. we'll have a live report for you. we turn first to the house

democrats who remain bitterly divided over the president's health care plan. conservative democrats der manneding sweeping cost savings. white house chief of staff rahm emanuel today went to capitol hill. he went up there trying to break a deadlock but looked highly unlikely that the house will pass health care legislation by the president's date of august 1st, a date the president had called the people's deadline d dena bash reports from capitol hill. >> reporter: one after another conservative house democrats from a strategy session not to let up on the party's health care plan. >> we're not there yet. our biggest concern is making sure we control costs. we're not ready to support a bill yet. >> reporter: that was the refrain of many in the 52-member conservative blue dog coalition, a democratic group big enough to dash their party leaders hopes for a health care vote this

week. >> the members of the blue dog coalition are more united than i've ever seen because health care reform goes to the heart of fiscal responsibility. >> reporter: meanwhile democratic senators who already gave up hope of passing a health care bill before summer recess are still struggling to find compromise but they were upbeat after marathon closed door negotiations. >> i think we're really making progress. i feel relatively confident that we're going to be able to come together. >> reporter: in fact democratic senators say they are coalescing around john kerry's idea to pay for medical costs and cover expanded health care service imposing a cost on insurance service, the cadillac plan. they haven't settled on details. one possibility is taxing plans worth $25,000 or more, which could generate $90 billion in revenue. >> it is a way, as many of us have sought to do, to make sure

this country stops subsidizing cadillac coverage. i think it is wonderful that in a free country you can buy as many designer smiles as you want, but you shouldn't be able to pie those designer smiles with tax subsidized dollars. >> reporter: the senators negotiating are continuing to push forward on something that's been on the bipartisan negotiating table for sometime and that is a cooperate or co-op plan. that is something very different from what the president wanted, a government run insurance plan to compete with private insurers. several outside the meeting told us certainly they agree with the president. they would prfr a public option. they also say to get a bill through the senate they have to compromise. that government-run insurance plan is something they will have to compromise on. >> is that a compromise in conference would end up being precisely what the president is asking for. >> reporter: you've been to this rodeo before. >> i have been.

>> it's possible. that will ultimately really be determined by what those conservative democrats both in the house and the senate, how tough they are on this issue. it's really interesting, part of the reason why the government-run insurance plan isn't on the table in those bipartisan negotiations is because republicans don't want it, the ones they are trying to keep in the fold. it's not just republicans. i talked to several conservative democrats who say they are not that comfortable with it either. that is another reason it's not in it right now. i'm not clear if the president will get it back later. >> whar the chances democrats will abandon efforts to get this health care plan through. vividly we have the house speaker's image framed in our minds and her words that she will take the vote this week and she will win. what's the deal now? >> the republicans are pushing around an e-mail that was written by an forwarded and distributed by a republican staffer insisting that they have been informed by the house

democratic leadership that they won't have a vote this week that congress, particularly the house, will do home for an august recess without a vote. that certainly seems to be the way they are heading. having said that, lou, democratic leaders insist it has not formally been decided. as we speak they are meeting with conservative democrats and white house chief of staff trying to coup with a deal. it does seem to be they are not going to come up with a deal or house vote by the end of the week but they are saying the decision hasn't formally been made. >> quite a distance from we will win to we haven't got a decision. thanks very much, dana bash, we've wrabd pped up in time. thanks a lot. president obama trying to sell his health care plan. the president trying to convince older americans to support his health care proposal at a town hall teleconference organized by the aarp. dan has the report from the white house. >> reporter: 86-year-old army

veteran has no complaints about his health care coverage but he does worry about what an overhaul will mean for his kids and grandchildren. >> the load that's going to be put on them financially, i'm not sure that they know what they are doing because they are not straightforward. this is not stuff that should be fed. they need to know what the truth is. >> reporter: others are worried not only about their children but about their own health care coverage. president obama heard from some of them at an aarp town hall meeting including carolyn from illinois. >> will there be fewer hip and knee replacements? >> my interest is not getting between you and your doctor. >> reporter: margaret wanted to know if under the overhaul she would be able to keep the same coverage she enjoys. >> this is a guarantee i make,

if you have insurance you like, then you will be able to keep that insurance. >> reporter: some seniors aren't buying those guarantees on the internet concerns costs and limits will leave them without the health care they need. others are scared of a government-run plan. president obama urged seniors to pay close attention to the facts. >> that's what medicare is, it's a government-run health care plan that people are very happy with. i think we've been so accustomed to hearing those phrases sometimes we can't sort out the myth from reality. >> the white house is blaming capitol hill for some of the confusion. spokesman robert gibbs said he believes some lawmakers are giving bad information. >> the white house announce add list of federal budget cuts as

the president had set a deadline for $100 million cuts by his cabinet secretaries but those cuts coming eight days after the deadline. his cabinet secretary proposing $243 million in savings, $102, that was the deal, $140 million next year. that's $2 million more this year than the president had demanded back in april of his cabinet secretaries. well, that sounds impressive until you think about what the savings are. they are actually only a tiny fraction of next year's $3.6 trillion federal budget. some of the savings may seem min is kuhl including $35,000 by automatically shutting down computers to save money, some $2,000 using electronic copies of newspapers. well, to put all of that in perspective, we should point out that one top citigroup trader, his name is andrew hall, is demanding that citigroup honor a contract that would give him a upon us of more than $100

million. citigroup, of course, has received $45 billion in government bailout money so that savings has a very good use ahead for it, it appears. rising anger in congress that the payment of those huge bounces on wall street, the house financial services committee voting to ban pay practices and financial firms that encourage what it called inappropriate risk. today's action paves the way for a vote in the full house on friday just before lawmakers break for their august recess. the obama administration today announced a billion dollars in stimulus grants to retain or hire 4,700 police officers. but that's well short of the $8 billion in grants the police departments had asked for. some of the country's biggest cities won'ting receiving any money at all under this grant, including new york city, houston, seattle and pittsburgh. the justice department said the money goes to cities with the worst budget problems and the highest crime rates. the senate judiciary committee today voted 13-6 to approve the

nomination of judge sonia sotomayer to the supreme court. the vote for sotomayer was mostly along party lines. one republican senator, as expected, senator lindsey graham, voted in favor of sotomayer. critics remain concerned sotomayer is an activist, a full vote to confirm sotomayer is expected next week. up next year law enforcement agencies intensifying focus on michael jackson's personal doctor. a report on the live investigation into the pop star's death. you won't believe who is defending me against the rant of those radical left wingers. >> isn't this partially the southern poverty law center was so outraged by mr. dobbs and the illegal alien tape that he came up with, isn't this a little payback? >> we'll have the latest on the controversy over the president's birth certificate and the media reaction. stay with us. i was in the grocery store when i had a heart attack.

my daughter was with me. i took a bayer aspirin out of my purse and chewed it. my doctor said the bayer aspirin saved my life. please talk to your doctor about aspirin and your heart. i'm going to be grandma for a long time.

there are new developments tonight into the investigation of the death of michael jackson. investigators and dea a little searched the las vegas home and office of jackson's personal doctor, dr. conrad murray. yesterday a source close to jackson's family said murray gave jackson a powerful drug that may have ultimately killed the pop star.

ted is there and has the story for us. ted, what are they sempling for tonight? >> reporter: they are still at it, lou. what they are looking for, according to conrad's attorneys who have seen the search warrant they are looking for any paper documents or documentation or evidence about michael jackson's prescriptions or any aliases michael jackson may have used or dr. murray may have used. that's the key. if what they are saying is true, if they went to a judge and got a search warrant and said they are looking for evidence of aliases used, what they are saying is they must have had enough probable cause to go to a judge and say during our investigation we found some aliases. clearly they are going in and looking at computer hard drives. they took one computer and cell phones from murray's home. murray was there while this search took place at his home in a gated community that took only three hours. behind me here at murray's clinic, they have been at it for seven hours and they are still going at it. they are still taking what

presumably evidence from murray's clinic, going through and seeing what's pertinent and taking it out. while conrad murray is not a suspect in this case, he clearly is the focus of this investigation when you look at what's happened here today and take into account what happened last week when they took documents out of his houston medical practice as well. >> ted rowlands breaking the story on cnn last night. do we know where dr. murray is tonight? >> reporter: yes, in his home in las vegas. i in a gated community. they say he has spent the better part of the last month in his home fairly excluded while all of this firestorm has been going on around him. his lawyers say that he's basically been paralyzed and has not been able to practice at all or can't leave his house because of all this attention. he is home in las vegas and he was there while they served that

warrant on his home in las vegas. >> ted, thank you very much for bringing us to date. ted rowlands in the investigation of dr. murray and whatever role he played in the final days or hours of michael jackson's death is being investigated. the white house says president obama will meet professor gates and cambridge sergeant crowley thursday. press secretary robert gibbs said there is no formal agenda for the meeting at the white house other than cold beer. that comes after the controversy after the arrest by professor gates by officer crowley and his initial comments that cam brenlg police acted stupidly. larry king had an exclusive interview with former secretary of state colin powell. they will be talking about this dispute.

>> i'm saying he might have waited, come out and talked to the officer and that would have been the end of it. i think he should have reflected whether it was this big a deal. he was just home from china, new york. all he wanted to do was go to bed. his door was jammed. >> there are those that say he brings the whole body into the history of the black movement. >> that might be the case. but i still think it might well have been resolved in a different manner if we didn't have this verbal altercation between the two of them. >> one of the folks that should be at the white house between professor gates and crowley and the president isn't going to be there, officer kelly king who strongly criticized the president last week. >> it's unfortunate. i supported him. i voted for him. i will not again. >> well, don lemon broke that story first on lou dobbs last friday. new developments in the controversy over the president's

birth certificate. yesterday the director of the hawaii department of health issued another statement that she had, in fact, seen barack obama's original so-called long form birth certificate on file with the office of vital records. that official repeated her opinion that the president was born in honolulu, hawaii august 4th, 1961. she made a similar statement last october. there have been repeated requests from some of the president's skeptics about the release of his original birth certificate. hawaii law, however, prevents actual release of the document to a third party. cnn had previously reported when hawaii's vital records office went paperless in 2001 that the original paper documents were discarded. that was incorrect. yesterday a spokeswoman for the hawaii department of health said, in fact, that paper birth records have been retained in addition to the department's electronic records. a left wing group liberal mainstream media stepped up some

attacks on me for reporting on the controversy over the president's birth certificate when in fact i've stated many times president obama is a citizen of this country in my opinion. the southern poverty law center called on cnn to fire me for my even discussing the story. coming to my defense last night, bill o'reilly. >> when is enough enough? never. freedom of speech allows you to go up to the line -- if lou dobbs was causing danger to someone then you would be legitimate in calling for his firing but he's not. >> isn't the southern poverty law center was so enraged by mr. dobbs and the illegal alien tape he came up with, isn't this a

little payback? aren't you paying him back for the illegal alien deal? >> i think we're calling him for his misstatement of facts like we've been doing for years. >> it's not just birth certificate, it's illegal aliens and other things, too. >> i wouldn't put it like that. lou has been saying ridiculous things about undocumented persons. >> i want to say first of all thank you to bill o'reillyy, he kicked me around for saying the president could solve all this by releasing his long form. i appreciate bill o'reillyy being a standup guy. apparently i was another topic, apparently gir aledo rivera.

i said he said simply release the certificate. ann coulter came to my defense. >> a new prime time advocate of the issue whether barack obama is a citizen of the united states. ann coulter is this an issue? >> no. lou dobbs is not a crank. he was right on illegal immigration although he's wrong on this issue. >> i've repeatedly stated president obama is a citizen of the united states. my question is why not provide the long form certificate and end the discussion. hearing my thoughts, joining me on the radio monday through friday for lou dobbs show each afternoon wor, 710 radio in new york all over the country. go to lou dobbs.com to get the listings in your area. follow me on loudobbsnews on twitter.com. president obama's plummeting approval ratings. what is behind that, the plunge in his approval ratings. that is the subject of the

face-off debate here tonight. we'll be joined by two of the leading polsters and political strategists in the country. after years of shipping american jobs overseas, we'll be telling you why some corporations are bringing jobs back to america. . >> this is really nothing better than walking into a factory and watching americans manufacture products for distribution in america. >> amen, brother. we'll have a special report on encouraging economic news. uiser you could turn it into cash. get to your dodge, chrysler, and jeep dealer, and get up to double the government's cash for your old car. now get up to $4,500 for your old car... plus, up to an additional $4,500 cash allowance. no turn-in? no problem. your dodge, chrysler, and jeep dealer guarantees everyone up to $4,500 cash allowance... on virtually every model. get to your dodge, chrysler and jeep dealer on the double, and get double cash for your old car!

we've got some good news for you tonight on the economy. home prices in may posting their first monthly increase for the first time in nearly three years, an increase not much but it was, as i say, the first increase in nearly three years. home sales moving higher as well. so with all of that, more good news for middle class families. after years of outsourcing jobs to cheap foreign labor markets like mexico, communist china, romania, a small but growing number of corporations are beginning to bring those jobs back to the united states. it's called reshoring.

here is the good news. >> reporter: southern california-based excel outdoors makes disney logo sleeping ball games for major retailers such as walmart and target. you'd expect them in china. five years ago 70% are. now they have shifted 80% to this 75 worker factory inhaleyville, alabama. >> there's nothing better than watching americans make products for america. >> reporter: when they bought the sleeping bag company in 2000 they planned to shut down the factory and outsource to mexico, then they met the workers and recrunched the numbers. >> when you put a face to numbers, it makes a big difference. and it made both me and my partner decide that, hey, you know what, this is worth fighting for. >> reporter: the shift back from china has been more gradual fueled by rising cost of

transportation and chinese labor, quality control issues and the ability to deliver products in less than a week instead of three months. >> i think this is the beginning of a mini trend, if you will. i think we're going to see more manufacturers that had operations in china look to see if they can produce in the united states more efficiently, competitively. >> san diego-based mexico's choice, missouri of its manufacturing gone to china. when the owner was faced with the prospect of laying off more than 20 factory workers here, he instead invested in higher productivity equipment that allowed him to keep the jobs in california. >> i hope, for the sake of our country, that i'm not the only guy with a small business that has taken a close look at how to retain people, keep them here, or even bring them -- bring jobs back. >> scott's goal is to bring 70% of his jobs back to the united

states. last month even jeffrey imel, ceo of general electric, one of the pioneers of outsourcing jobs said the united states should set a national goal that 20% of u.s. jobs be in manufacturing, about double their percentage today. >> we very much believe the u.s. has to be an export oriented country. >> at excel outdoors exporting is the fastest growing segment of its business. everyone we spoke with for this report suggests if the united states government and u.s. businesses need to do more to encourage the growth of manufacturing jobs in the united states. the u.s. chamber of commerce, which has often defended the practice of outsourcing as good for the economy declined to comment. the business roundtable, which has called opposition to outsourcing isolationist did not return our calls. national association of manufacturers did speak with us and said its lobbying numbers of congress to remove what it says are barriers to u.s. exports and domestic prfrg.

lou. >> including outsourcing of american jobs to cheap overseas labor markets? >> reporter: they are working to try to end that practice, slow it down and bring those jobs back here. >> god bless them. i think this would qualify as green shoots, i believe is the expression in washington, d.c. and great news. thank you very much. we've had to report for how many years now, some seven years about the outsourcing of those jobs. it would be nice to see that reversed. we've watched the disappearance of millions and millions manufacturing jobs, good paying middle class jobs. thanks from los angeles. up next, rising concern about the impact on all of us as a result of antibiotics in animal feed. also a loophole in the president's massive health care plan that will give benefits to illegal immigrants. but don't worry it's a loophole that is intentional. some refuse to close it. they mean for illegal immigrants to be covered by health care

insurance provided by your tax dollars. the president's approval ratings are tumbling. we'll examine those poll numbers and what's driving the president's poll numbers in our face-off debate here next. 

quite a demonstration in israel. in jerusalem hundreds of israeli sailors and supporters protesting obama's policy on west bank demonstrators. shouting anti-u.s. slogans, anti-obama slogans. according to reports they call the president a traitor and racist. the obama administration has called for a complete halt to

settle the west bank. in this country the president's approval ratings are new lows, high new lows. recent polls showing americans skeptical the president has a clear plan forward to fix our economy. voters also questioning the president's health care proposals. joining me tonight for tonight's face-off debate, scott rasmussen, president of rasmussen reports. he says the white house should be concerned. mark penn serving as senior strategist for hillary clinton's presidential campaign and says the president can regain the public's confidence. good to have you both here. let's take a quick look at some numbers if we may. the full screen that you're going to see here is of approval rating drops over the three national polls, abc "washington post" poll, cbs "new york times" and gallup. all of those are relatively significant. yes, scott, we have the

rasmussen poll, the daily presidential tracking poll showing approval and strong disapproval and strong approval showing a negative for the president. let's start with the rasmussen poll. that seems appropriate tonight. >> a good place to start. >> why, in your judgment, is the president watching these numbers decline? >> first of all, it's a natural occurrence. the honeymoon is over. except important my marriage, honeymoon's never last. >> artfully done, if i may say. >> that's right. got to score some points on the home front. this is what you'd expect. people are beginning to say we need to judge president obama by his policies and results. the big issue is the economy. most americans still blame president bush for the economy. but a larger and larger share are starting to place the blame on president obama. there are other concerns. health care weighing in on it. ultimately comes back to the economy. your thoughts? >> i polled for president clinton and the white house for

years. we would consider these to be very good numbers. the kind of numbers you see in the high 50s are very good numbers. look, they are not inauguration day numbers but there is a very tough economy out there. the president is trying to move forward health care. there's a lot of increased contentiousness given these issues. to have the support of about six in ten is a pretty impressive number right now. >> here is an comprehensive number, too, i'd like you both to respond to. this the gallup poll of the question, do you think obama's stimulus plan has made the economy better, had no affect or worse. better, 28%. no affect 49% or worse 21%. these have to be disturbing numbers, would you not agree, mark, for the white house? >> i think the white house is going to be looking closely at these numbers. as a practical matter either the economy is going to turn around or it's not. if it does, as it did under president clinton they are going

to say, wow, it worked. if it doesn't they are going to say it didn't. the jury is out based on what we're seeing. the stock market is a leading cater and unemployment a flagging indicator. >> we've seen it's been declining, consumer confidence declining since late may. overall the last jobs report seems to be a turning appoint. people beginning to be ablg lit bit skeptical about the economy. if the economy is doing great the president's numbers will be great. the thing i would watch for, not only is the economy heading down, what is happening with general motors. that's an issue that could be problematic for the president. >> we've seen the president, an abatement in the language, as you were just talking about the economy. we are seeing decided positives here in this economy, and we continue to hear people talk it down. i don't know whether that's happening as a result of

partisan ship or for purposes of advocacy because democrats and republicans are doing it. frankly it drives me nuts. what's your reaction, mark? >> it's hard to talk the economy up when you have this kind of unemployment. i think typically people in the white house -- >> i don't believe you can talk up an economy. but i do believe you can talk one down in the sense that leadership is so negative that it has a decided impact on society at large, on consumers as well as citizens. >> in fact, in '96, mr. president went out and said it's the strongest in 30 years. everyone went wow. he really turned around the view of the economy. i think it's a little early for obama to try to do that. i think he would get himself caught into a trap with so many unemployed. perhaps unemployment is a lagging indicator. >> if you're going to say the economy is boffo, it's good to do it on the on set of biggest asset bubble in american

history. scott, where do you see the independents in this country have turned against the president where they were one of his greatest contributors they have now moved negative on the president. why is that? >> they are concerned about the economy. they are concerned about the spending. most americans instinctively believe responding is bad for the economy. they believed it when clinton was in office, ronald reagan, one of the bedrock american principles. right now they see spending going up and they don't see economic results. if the economy turns around they will reconsider their position. the spending, deficit numbers, new involvement in the economy is creating some challenges for this president. >> do you see positive for republicans given negatives for the democrats here. are they simply internal events for the democrats and republicans cast a lost in the land. mark? >> i don't think you've seen republicans come forward with anything of a coherent philosophy.

i think you've heard the usual no on health care, no on stimulus but you haven't heard a yes on anything. i don't think the republicans are breaking out here. even though approval for congress generally is low, still, republicans and congress have the lowest approval and highest disapproval of all. >> yeah, 24% trust in the most recent poll. where was that. 24% trust for nancy pelosi. to what degree is there an opportunity, if at all, for republicans who seem to be both d discredited and in disarray. >> they are in disarray. they have no clear leader. the democrats are in charge of the white house, both house of congress. if things are going bad and they want to take something out on elected officials, democrats are going to lose. everything we're seeing says democrats are losing ground, republicans are not gaining ground of that's an interesting mix for 2010.

>> all right. thank you both for being here. appreciate it. thank you, gentlemen. loopholes in the democrat's health care plan. intentional loopholes. millions of illegal immigrants would be receiving health care benefits at taxpayer expense. oh, yes, and their immediate families as well. left wing groups attack me for just mentioning the controversy over the president's birth certificate. i have said straightforwardly i believe the man is a citizen. that doesn't satisfy the left wing of this country. but i have some very able defenders. again, i want to say thank you to ann colter, bill o'reilly. we'll be back with our radio panel. stay with us. to stay on top of my game after 50,

i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day men's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration. plus support for heart health. that's a great call. one a day men's. new concerns in the democratic party that health care plan could provide coverage for illegal immigrants. however, part of the democratic party is the reason that it would. a proposed system to verify eligibility was killed by house democrats. the heller amendment. republican critics saying that would be no way to know whether people are applying for health care benefits in this country are here illegally or not. lisa sylvester has our report.

>> reporter: demonstrators at a mayday rally demanding equal rights, including health coverage for the millions of illegal immigrant in the united states. opponents say people who break immigration laws should not be rewarded. the conservative heritage foundation says the house health care bill will do just that. >> what we're doing is creating a new program for low income people to give them free medical care and giving illegal immigrants free and total access to that system. it's a huge transformation. it's radically different from anything the country has done in the past. >> democrats strongly disagree. house spartanberg nancy pelosi says the bill does this benefit illegal benefits. >> if you're in this country illegally, you should be able to get health care purchase illegal immigrants are not covered by this plan. >> reporter: states, nothing in this subtitle shall allow

federal payments on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the united states. seems pretty straightforward. but several gop lawmakers still insist the bill will allow illegal imdprants to receive taxpayer-funded benefits. they point to what they call a gaping loophole. no verification or enforcement system. >> you can say all day long if you want to it doesn't have a way to apply for illegal immigrants. if you don't have a way to screen them out, that is going to include illegal immigrants. >> reporter: amendment offered that would have allowed welfare eligibility to keep illegal immigrants to apply. that was defeated in committee on a party line vote. there's another provision in this bill that some republicans take issue wchl it says if one member of a family is eligible to receive universal health coverage then the entire family is eligible. representative lamar smith calls

that another loophole he says will permit illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer funded coverage. >> thank you very much. lisa sylvester from washington. up next, the president, he's raising the pressure for his health care plan but he can't break the deadlock among members of his own party. and some strong defense i received after left wing advocacy groups attacked me for simply saying the president is a citizen but why not show that long form birth certificate. we'll be right back.

my favorite radio talk show host from cincinnati, wlwl radio's bill cunningham in detroit, wchb, mildred, good to have you with us, mildred. in chicago from wgn steve cocker. good to have you with us. >> thank you, sir. >> my guess is you guys have been talking about this today, an interview with the newly elected senator obama some five years ago, interviewed by radio talk to show host randy rhodes, if you will listen to this. >> when you rush these budgets

that are a foot high and nobody has any idea what's in them and nobody has read them. >> fourteen pounds. >> it gets rushed through without any deliberation or clear debate therks kind of things happened. i think this is in some ways what happened to the patriot act. you remember there was no real debate about that it was so quick after 9/11 that it was introduced that people felt very intimidated by the administration. >> the president, then senator elect concerned about administrations who rush legislation through congress. here is one of his many recent statements with a certain sense of urgency to it. >> time and again we've heard excuses to delay and defeat reform. time and again the american people have suffered because people in washington played the politics of the moment instead of putting the interest of the american people first. >> politics of the moment, steve

cochran, is that the fasttrack or is that the slow track? >> it's a duplicity of politics, right? it's right for me when it's right for me and it's wrong when it's not. the clear thing is the obama administration needs a win, and they need a win quickly politically. there's no way this is going to get done next week or the week after. we'll be lucky if we see anything by the end of the year. in the meantime the beer at the white house is cold and ready to be served. >> okay. mildred, your thoughts? >> well, we need to remember that barack obama won this thing by convincing americans that one of the one things he would take care of, initially one of his priorities would be health care for those who are uninsured in this country. cnn release add study that said 86.7 million americans are without health insurance so it is, indeed, an issue. the question is why -- >> 86.7 million americans. >> 86.7 million americans. this study was done by a family

organization. in fact, it's on your website, by the way. >> i'm sorry, it's on cnn's website. >> okay. >> remember, this guy told america, i'm going the question is, why are the details not being released? >> mildred, actually the question is, what's the deal? the president when he was a senator-elect thought george w. bush was rushing things through and intimidating congress and now as president he wants things passed by august 1st. at least the one i pose. >> i'm saying to you that either there are details that the president is not interested in everybody seeing right now or he's trying to rush and get then done. >> we're getting real, all right, mildred. let's turn to bill cunningham, your thoughts? >> well, lou, i would say this that all politicians have a little bit of con men in them, but this obama's taking it to an art form. he talked about not signing bills with earmarks, signs 9,000 earmarks, i'm going to hire

lobbyists, at least 45 lobbyists, talks about putting the bill he signs for 48 hours and then the stimulus plan goes through at 3:00 a.m. in the morning. this guy is taking lying to an art form, he's a con man and after six months, i think we finally figured it out and that's why the approval ratings are plummeting. >> steve cochran, what do you think? >> well, he's a politician. oh, you said he was a con man. he's a politician. look, i don't go along with barack obama's trying to take down america. i don't buy that. i think there are enough dopes in both parties that have said many times in this program and on my own that the american people need to be more involved, more involved now, not wait for lou dobbs to do it, not for the three of us do it. get informed, tell those people running for reelection next year in the mid-terms, you're not voting for them unless they do their job. and if health care's your thing, get on it. pick an issue, just one issue and get on it so you can change

america. don't count on them to do it. >> yeah, and, you know, that's, i think, first of all that's terrific counsel to all of us. you mentioned beer. that makes me think of the white house and a meeting thursday among president obama, sergeant james crowley and professor henry louis gates of harvard. mildred, what do you think? a great idea? >> well, first of all, i think that the media has really taken this thing in a direction it did not need to go. >> that darn media. >> yes, it did. it was the media, keep in mind, lou, that injected race into this issue. the president felt that the police officers acted stupidly and essentially what he was saying, he didn't say the white officers acted stupidly with the black professor. >> he said the whole dog gone department did. >> and you know why? because in this country, in america, you don't go into a man's home thinking that he has broken in and once you realize that he is, indeed, in his own home and he's proven that to you

you leave the premises. now, even if he sounds like a jerk, they have not proven yet any legitimate reason to arrest this guy. to arrest this man. >> let me just give you a -- you know, another view. well, you know what? i was going to give you the view of colin powell who is going to be on larry king tonight 9:00 p.m. eastern time. but i can say it simply, he thinks gates acted and perhaps the general will not be appreciative, he basically said both men behaved badly. you know what? both men had signed -- well, effectively, had signed a statement, a joint statement from professor gates and the police department initially saying they both had behaved badly and they're going to move on. so -- >> lou, look at it this way, gates is a rich millionaire who played the race card early on by saying this is how black men are treated in america. with all due respect to my friend, mildred.

what happened here is race played the race card early on and crowley bent over backwards not to arrest a rich, black, african studies professor from harvard back from china, but only so much can be taken. this was contempt by cop. crowley maybe shouldn't have arrested him, but gates is the one who threatened litigation, gates is the one that hired the professor and played the race card. and i would tell that beer let it become room temperature. i wouldn't drink that with those guys gates and obama. they played the race card. >> i think it's interesting you say maybe he should not have arrested him. he should not have. it was an abuse of power. >> well -- >> but you've got to get in here. i've never seen you so quiet. steve cochran, i'm starting to worry about you. >> anybody that sits in judgment of a cop's actions ought to spend one day with a cop and see what their job is and how they do it. i think that both men said they could've behaved better is one thing, i think the race discussion's important. what i don't like is the

hypocrisy of all of it. we've got kids shooting kids on the south side of chicago in record numbers that the reverend jackson couldn't wait to get on cnn and talk about how white people are treating black people poorly again. i would like to see the reverend jackson go to the south side of chicago and deal with black on black crime and these kids shooting each other. it's tragic and goes on day after day and this is the greatest city in the world. it doesn't have to happen. >> as we in new york refer to it -- >> it's fine, have a cover charge and a tip jar, maybe pay down the debt a little bit. but it's nothing more than a publicity stunt at this point. >> well, when steve cochran does get engaged, he's engaged, right, guys? mildred thank you very much, steve, thank you. up at the top of the hour, campbell brown, campbell? >> hey there, lou, we're going to talk about the terrorist threat here at home. several americans under arrest in north carolina for planning attacks. just ahead, why some top

security experts are sounding the alarm about terror cells here in the u.s. and what we need to look at. plus the government says obesity is costing this country $147 billion a year. but are overweight people becoming scapegoats for the nation's health care crisis? a debate on that. plus, we've of course, got our "mash-up" coming up right at the top of the hour. >> don't you love numbers like that? $147 billion. somebody knows exactly what fat people are costing. that's great. >> there are people who get paid to do this, lou. >> you better believe it. they do it great. look forward to it. we'll be right back. stay with us.

well, be sure to join us here tomorrow, please, in our faceoff debate. the subject is the obama stimulus plan is saving or losing jobs and how do we know? joining me will be the author of the grand new party, how republicans can win the working class and save the american dream. and the senior editor of "new republic" magazine. and join me on the radio monday through fridays, please, 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. every afternoon. and all around the country, go to