we want to thank you for being with us tonight. please join us here tomorrow. thanks for watching. good night from new york. >> tonight hear the questions, we want answers. what's life like behind bars for billionaire scammer. bernie madoff. the jailhouse interview. >> the paint signs and clerks. it's a long way from wall street. >> hear for the first tim what he said about the billion dollar scheme and what happened to all of that money. plus the battle over michael jackson's money. his mother takes on the big businessman controlling the half a billion dollar mistake andw l

and will.i.a.m. was working on music with michael jackson. >> and rudy giuliani. >> what are your plans? >> after his first loss in years, michael phelps is back on top but yet another swimsuit controversy. >> hi, everybody, those are the big questions tonight. but we start, as we always do with the mash-up. our look at all of the stories making an impact right now. the moment you may missed today. we're watching it all so you don't have to. we began tonight with the woman whose 911 call triggered a racial firestorm. she's breaking her silence today. lucia whalen called the cops on

henry louis gates. since then said she's living a nightmare because of reports that two black men tried to break into the home. whalen didn't bring up race at all. her news conference highly emotional. here's the clip. >> when i was called racist, and i was a target, of scorn and ridicule because of the things i never said, the criticism hurt me as a person. i hope now that the truth of the tapes, will help heal the cambridge community as much as it has helped to restore my

representation. i hope people can see, that i tried to be care ful and honest with my words. >> if you're a concerned citizen, you should do the right thing. if you see something that seemed suspicious, i would do the same thin thing. >> the country deeply divided showing 27% blame the professor. 11% blame the cop. 29% say they're both at fault. tonight beer fffest should be a party. good news first. rebel conservative democrats back at the bargaining table. and now the bad new, no chance anything is going to pass before the august recess, giving the president's opponents lots of time to freak out an already anxious public.

get a load of this scare tactic. some conservatives hitting that the president's plan would lead to government encouraged euthanasia for senior citizens. here's the view now from the right. this is the harshest misconception in the bill that living longer is burdened society that people shouldn't be allowed to live so long because it's a burden on society. >> everyone over age 65 would be required to have an end of life consultation with their position. >> the terry schiavo case looks like a walk in the park. >> republicans have a better solution that won't put the government in charge of people's health care and is pro life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government. president obama called this whole line of attack more bid saying the plan would help seniors deal with end of life

issues like hospice care not euthanasia. this all spears a big government style takeover. trying to convince the public that's not going to happen. if you're happy with the health care you have got. by all means keep it. here he is very much on message. if you like your doctor, keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan. keep your health care plan. >> if you like your doctor, keep your doctor. if you like your health care plan, keep your plan. >> if you have got a doctor you like, you will be able to keep your doctor. nobody is trying to change what works. >> no longer will insurance companies be allowed to drop or water down coverage for someone who has become seriously ill. >> water down coverage for someone who has become seriously ill. >> it's not right. it's not fair. >> it's not right. it's not fair. >> they can't drop you if you get too sick.

>> expect to hear more of the same from the president, day in, and day out. >> dramatic pictures tonight from just outside baghdad. iraqi police storing a camp of refugees from iran. >> this is a dramatic example of tough choices iraqi officials are making as the u.s. military pulls out. here they are targeting refugees considered terrorists by iran and united states. >> those are iraqi police officers with a high pressure water hose, sticks and sheefr numbers getting physical with residents of iranian exile camp. it was rough. seven people are reported dead. 400 people reportedly hurt. police had one account. iranians have quite another. >> images captured by residents show the dead and wounded. residents told cbs news at least 11 people were killed, hundreds wounded and 30 arrested. >> they've been previously

protected by american troops. news here at home looking to get fake sun this summer. you may want to reconsider. we have a new warning about tanning beds. world health organization is now listing them among the top risks for cancer alongside cigarettes and asbestos. >> the same cancer risk as plutonium and raydon. >> they can be as deadly as arsenic. >> there's something more dangerous than the swine flu. . yes, i know. oh, my goodness. it's classed in the same category as arsenic and mustard gas. >> now is the time to really listen to me. risk of cancer if you go into these things, just by 75%. if you use one. before you're 30, that will scar you away. indoor tanning association calls of the report over hype says indoor tanning is as dangerous as sunshine.

here's a story that that a bed won't hurt you. maybe. mattress dominos. this is a new video gone viral, check it out. >> literally 41 people lined up to play mattress dominos. game of mattress dominos has been catching on especially on college campuses, now it's being recognize the by the guinness book. >> that tape shot in the uk. check youtube. you can thank me later. that brings us to the punch line. courtesy of stephen colbert looking forward to tomorrow's beerfest at the white house. >> this post racial beerfest scheduled for this thursday at 6:00 all stems from last week when officer crowley arrested henry louis gates in the fact of being in his own home. in officer crowley's defense,

gates fingerprints were everywhere. >> stephen colbert, that's the match-up. three musicmakers joining us tonight. music car will.i.am. and also rudy giuliani. hear what he says to the crazy fringe known as birthers. >> i don't get the issue. i don't know why they're pushing it as far as they are. the fair point it does obscure the message. there are important messages that conservative republicans have in this country about overspending. reducing the size of the military. those are the things we should be talking about.

our political news maker made a lot of news as mayor of new york city and attacks on september 11th. and rudy giuliani is making news now with unbridled criticism of president barack obama. i talked to him about that and other political matters. mayor giuliani, welcome to you. i want to talk about the

republican party in a moment. >> sure. >> lots to talk about. let me talk about president obama. you recently said that his first seven months had been in your view much worse than you had thought they would be. what alarmed you the most? >> i think he has gone much further to the left. he ran a moderate democrat and look at the stimulus package. the cap and trade legislation. now you attempt to, however you want to describe it. take large portions of medical care and put it under the government. this has been massive government at a time in which i thought we had gotten control of that. this is more spending than ever before in a short period of time. no more creation of government bureaucracy. it's probably the most left wing agenda than any president has had i guess since root svelte. >> what about on the homeland security. there's some in your party like dick cheney who has gone so far

as to say president obama has left faith. >> i don't have a negative opinion. >> he has surprised many on the foreign policy. >> he kept his word on afghanistan. you never know if somebody is running if they change their mind when they get into office. he's pursuing terrorism in afghanistan. i don't agree with his desire to want to negotiate with ahmadinejad, like hillary clinton before. i still think that's a mistake. i think it puts america in a weaker position. i think there's a little bit too much going on. there's still an open book on foreign policy. >> as you know he invited pro guesser gates. sergeant crowley for the beer summit. getting more attention than you can imagine. what do you think how he's handling the sideways? >> somebody said last thing in the world this dispute needs is alcohol. they had nothing but problems

before. the reality, i think he's trying to make the best of a bad situation. a bad situation that happened there. and he kind of made a terrible mistake. he made a terrible mistake which i'm sure he knows, he warned himself about. during that press conference, he said, i don't know much about the facts. now you keep going. that's usually a signal to shut my big mouth. and then he went on to take a strong position on something he didn't know about. he said he didn't know about. i think he tried to fix it the next day. trying to fix it now and that's all good. >> some prominent conservatives have questioned -- are still questioning whether or not president obama -- >> he got better things to do than that. >> these are not the far, far right of the party. these are prominent main stream conservatives. members of congress. >> look, we all have to deal with disagreements within our political parties. the democrats have blue dog democrats and diplomats who want to have even more national health care than exists now.

>> is that a fair comparison between people who are questioning wetter this president is legitimate? >> my gosh. they were going to impeach him. put him in jail. members of congress that want to put president obama in jail. people that want to put dick cheney in jail. i think it's a false issue. i have seen a birth certificate that kind of satisfies me that he was born in the united states. i don't get the issue. i don't know why they're pushing it as far as they are. it does -- the fair point, it does obscure the message. there are important mess ans that conservative republicans had to deliver to the country about overspending, reducing the size of the military. those are things we should be talking about. >> is that the struggle the republican party is having right now. there are no clear leaders so the people who are breaking through, the message that's breaking through are the far fringes of the party? >> it's a shame. there are big issues, president obama has pushed things very hard. very hard in favor of big government. one of the things, my party can

contribute is being disciplined. you need a check on that. you need somebody that can stand up and say let's not go so far with big government. it's going to create disproportion, in terms of power of government in terms of private sector. that's what we should be battling. we have plenty of philosophical issues to battle about. take issues like that, hurs us more than the other side. >> let me ask you about sarah palin. everyone's favorite subject. she resigned as governor of alaska. what do you think it did for her political future? did it help or hurt her? >> he's a hard political figure to analyze. my wife an i took her to the yankee game, a couple weeks -- the one that created a controversy. >> with david letterman. i wasn't sure i did the right thing. to the bronx, big yankee territory. she had a great reception.

i don't know if they were diplomats or republicans. they all wanted to take a picture with her. they wanted to get her autograph. they wanted to talk to her. it sparks a tremendous amount of interest. so there is something unusual there. and we'll have to see. she gets now a year, year and a half before you get to actual presidential politics, to create whatever it is that she wants people to think about sarah palin. we have to see what she does. >> do you think she has what it takes to be president? >> i thought she did when i campaigned for her. i got to meet her after john selected her. i gave the speech before her when she came out and gave that great speech. i campaigned with her with her husband. i thought she was a really good governor. of the state. i thought she had done a really good job. i think that she -- there were a lot of questions, because of all of the things that had been raised. she had a chance to answer them all. i think she's a real presence in our party.

>> we'll be watching. rudy giuliani. thanks a lot. >> thanks. >> tonight's newsmaker bernie madoff with the jailhouse interview. find out how the swindler is spending time behind bars. >> he is a bit of a celebrity. people are asking him for autographs which he's not giving. >> how is he spending his time? what does he do all day? >> he exercises, walks around the track. spends a lot of time reading and he's got a job. he's in the sign factory, if you want to call it that, where he paints signs, and clerks to make sure that signs get painted. it's a long way from wall street. allows multiple applications to run at the same time. - ( thunder and rain ) - millions are using the simply everything plan. - each is saving $1200 over an at&t iphone plan. - ( cash register dings ) together that's billions of dollars. enough to open a dunkin' donuts in space.

from america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. get the palm pre. only from sprint. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.

now look at some of the other must-see stories of the day. erica hill is tonight with tonight's stories. >> another revelation of dr. conrad murray. michael jackson's personal physician. murray is still more than $100,000 behind on his mortgage and could face foreclosure. yesterday police searched his home and office in connection with jackson's death. cnn has reported several types murray had more than $400,000 in judgments for debts and looebs against him when he decided to leave his practice and go to work for the pop star in may. his salary, 150 thousand a month for michael jackson. wife and mother of suspected terrorist arrested in north

carolina tells cnn she was frisked by the fbi. they were one of eight people who were accused of plotting. they involved a car wreck to get her out of her house so they could in fact search it. >> we got to the hospital, they brought us around back, celebrated us, handcuffed us, including my 8-month-old pregnant daughter-in-law and were very rude and then told us they're not dying, they're detained and you better cooperate with us. >> the fbi is not couldn'ting. boyd denies her family did anything wrong. the death penalty for a man now charged with murder on a horrific attack of two seattle women. the suspect is 24-year-old icic talibu already under investigation.

he repeatedly stabbed and sexually assaulted buss. she escaped, but collapsed and died in the street. the one-day losing streak for olympic champion swimmer michael phelps is over. he swam his way back to glory setting the record in rome. yesterday phelps suffered his first loss in four years to a rival sporting a high-tech swimsuit which some gave an unfair leg up. phelps didn't need that po polyurethane swim wear passing legendary mark spitz by capturing the world record. there's his mom. i love his mom. she's cute. >> she is cute. i wonder what makes the swimsuit so special. >> you glide easier. they're going to pan it. >> erica hill for us. thanks, erica. >> tonight's musicmaker, will.i.am talks about the music he recorded with michael jackson

before his tdeath. >> i would love for it to come out the things that we came up with were spectacular.

♪ you know that unmistakable sound, black eyed peas. frontman will.i.am. is another of tonight's news maker. i spoke with him about the music he was making with michael jackson, music that's never been heard before. listen. >> will, i understand you and michael were collaborating together just before he passed away. tell us what you're working on. >> i had the pleasure to work with michael jackson for the last 2 1/2 years, i've been communicating with michael jackson, talking all of the time

on the phone, flu out and worked with him in ireland, came back to america, and we did 25. >> was there a new album that you guys are working on? >> we're just making music. we fiddled with a budge of different ideas. recorded a bunch of things. it was never let's record an album. it's let's have fun and make music. >> are we ever going to get to hear it? i would love for it to come out. things we came up with is spectacular. some of it is unfinished. never got a chance to finish the tunes. are you still working on it or can you still work on it? >> without it, it would be impossible. you know, our work relationship is real unique.

a lot of producers in the past took advantage of michael jackson, how big he was. and i don't want to go about it that way. i would like to figure out how to go about releasing some of the unfinished same songs that we started to work on. when james brown passed away. he and i went into the studio to record a song, was called i'll miss you, and that was never complete. for that song to come out now will be, you know, will be something else. >> you don't have the tracks. you don't own the tracks? >> i have the tracks in my hard drive. but i don't -- he would take his vocals and i would take the music. i will record the vocal as on the hard drive and on my drive i kept the music. >> it would be great if you could work with the family and

bring it together and put it all together, don't you think? >> that would be, you know, that would be wonderful. but, you know, i don't want to, you know, i didn't want to -- i didn't want it to be about money or profit earlier, and i don't want to do that now. so, you know, if they come to me and want to do it, i'll be thrilled. but i don't want to -- that's not what i'm about. i don't want to take advantage of the situation, you know? >> right. >> if it comes out, it will be awesome. i don't want to force it to come out, you know? it's like if i could marry the two hard drives with his vocals and my music, that would be great as well. >> will.i.am from the musical legacy of michael jackson to his literal legacy. what becomes of his estate. there's new developments today, stay with us.

it's okay. thanks. goodnight. goodnight. (door crashes in, alarm sounds) get out! (phone rings) hello? this is rick with broadview security. is everything all right? no, my ex-boyfriend just kicked in the front door. i'm sending help right now. thank you. (announcer) brink's home security is now broadview security. call now to install the standard system for just $99. the proven technology of a broadview security system delivers rapid response from highly-trained professionals, 24 hours a day. call now to get the $99 installation, plus a second keypad installed free. and, you could save up to 20% on your homeowner's insurance. call now-- and get the system installed for just $99. broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. and you know what, it works. nutrisystem for men:

flexible new programs personalized to meet your goals. what's great about nutrisystem is you eat the foods you love and you lose weight. i'm dan marino. i lost 22 pounds on nutrisystem and i've kept it off for three years. for a limited time, get an extra three weeks of meals free! that's right, you can get an extra 21 breakfasts, lunches, dinners, desserts, and snacks. that's 105 meals free! i had awesome results. i mean, i lost 22 pounds, my goal was 20, it came off fast, and the food was great. it's what every guy's been waiting for: it's healthy weight loss and it's flexible. with prices as low as $12 a day, you'll save hundreds over other weight-loss programs. order now and get an extra three weeks of fantastic meals. that's right, 105 meals absolutely free. call or click now. guys, you can do this. just pick up the phone and call. you will lose weight.

there are about 500 million reasons why michael jackson's mother is battling with the executors of his estate. like everything related to the late king of pops, becoming courtroom showdown is making a lot of headlines, take a listen. >> new developments tonight in the battle over michael jackson's estate. jackson's mother, katherine, is now demanding she be put back in control of that estate. she was granted custody of jackson's three children. >> she served subpoenas, seeking access to michael's contract, including the tour agreement with aeg. administrators said michael wanted them to control his estate and katherine cannot now rewrite his will. . bottom line here is that all is not well in this camp, compared to the, you know, what the other executors. judge is going to have to figure this out. there is an open spot there. remember there's a third executor that refused himself.

what they're saying, put katherine jackson in there. she's the only real advocate for michael. >> who is going to win the battle for michael's williams. joining me, chief correspondent for "inside edition." james walker and jeff toobin, joining us as always. jeff what's going on? is it about the money? >> it's a shot across the bow. i want to be part of the negotiations. frankly i don't think she has a legal leg to stand on. michael could have named her executor. he didn't. he named someone else. that's the end of the story. >> is there a realistic chance she will win this, be named an executor? >> i don't think there's any chance she'll be named executor. i think she's looking for negotiating leverage. this is going to be a long process. a very complicated estate. i think she's saying look, i'm going to be a presence here, my lawyers are going to be aggressive. i don't think there's going to be any decision in court next

week. executors are trying to figure out the extent of the estate. i don't think there's any way it can be resolved any time soon. >> jim, we hear a lot from the family. we don't hear anything frankly from the executors themselves. and these two guys, branca and mclean, they're big wigs, right? >> right. michael branca helped him acquire the beatles cat lower. i agree with jeff toobin completely. i don't think katherine has a leg to stand on. katheri katherine's side making a big deal the will not being notarized. in this will, michael jackson signed, virtually every clause, specifically naming the three executors and specifically stating if one of these falls out, you don't replace that person, so katherine can't come in and say i should be that third person. there's just no basis for it.

>> james you worked with the family in the past and you actually think they're making a big mistake here. >> i think the whole process is handled wrong. for one i kind of agree with jeff. kind of landmark. what i said, campbell, the family should have met with executors, met with the attorneys, you have a 78, 79-year-old woman. do you think if this goes the full length. do you really think the emotional toll will not wear her down? i'm saying, let's put this to bed p. there's millions of dollars coming. let's sit down with john branca, john mclean, figure out how we work this out. end of the day. attorneys representing the trust they don't have a body. attorneys representing the jackson family they have human beings who take the emotional strength of this case and get worn down. >> katherine is also responsible for these young children. not like she doesn't have a lot on her plate much less a

79-year-old woman. >> all right. hold on. i don't want to run out of time on this. i want to go to jim. there are also new details about the day that michael died, jim. coming from his personal chef, who did an interview with the associated press. she, of course, was there the day he died in the house. she says that dr. murray came running down the steps, screaming for michael's son, prince, to come, and then everyone in the house then gathered and started to pray. it's a very different story than the one we originally heard from the doctor, isn't it? >> it's very different. i'll tell you what is disturbing. the dr. called 911 at 12:22. according to the chef the doctor ran down stairs screaming for prince. he normally would come down cording to the chef for breakfast carrying oxygen tanks bringing breakfast up to michael jackson. he didn't. there's now a time line that extends from 12:22 back 3.5

hours, i'm sure investigators were looking into what happened. was michael jackson in distress, was he dead? was the doctor trying to revive him? a lot of questions what that doctor was doing. >> i would interject. also shopping a book deal. let's be careful. press also reported she's doing a cookbook "fit for a king" or something. i don't want to rely on her time line. i want to make that clear. i don't know if we can believe -- >> a lot more to come. jim moret. jeff wajim walker and jeff toob. a long way from wall street. bernie madoff. hear what his life is like including his new job. we'll have the jailhouse interview when we come back. roa. eight are wearing bathrobes. two... less. - 154 people are tracking shipments on a train. - ( train whistles ) 33 are im'ing on a ferry. and 1300 are secretly checking email...

- on a vacation. - hmm? ( groans ) that's happening now. america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. and we want to make sure that we enable our customers to be successful homeowners. bank of america is lending. whether it's a purchase, a refinance, line of credit... we're here to assist our customers. so we try to make it as simple as possible especially for that first time home buyer. there's a lot of opportunity right now with what's happening in our economy to really get out and educate. this is responsible lending. it's a lot more conservative than it once was. but in reality, it's a lot smarter. we, at bank of america, have simplified the process by offering the clarity commitment. this is a one-page document, very simplified, letting the customer know what they're going to sign up for. and there's not a lot of loan mumbo jumbo that most people don't understand. it's about educating someone. it's about making them feel comfortable.

it's not just one piece of it, home ownership, but it's about everything kind of along the way. we're going to be able to hold your hand from this from step one to the end and welcome to bank of america.

tonight we're getting brand new insights into convicted scheme mastermind bernie may daf. today a court appointed trustee sued madoff for $45 million alehning she received that much in fraudulent transfers from her husband and asking that that money go to madoff's victims.

her lawyers called the lawsuit complexing and unwarranted. madoff is serving a sentence for bilking investors for 13 billion dollar. attorneys interviewed him yesterday. that news maker, i spoke with him about a pretty markable meeting he had. >> first of all, how did he seem to you? he must be a bit of a celebrity in there. >> he is a bit of a celebrity. matter of fact, people are asking him for autographs which he offered -- is not giving. >> how is he spending his time? with did he tell you? what does he do all day? >> he exercises, walks around the track. spends a lot of time reading and he's got a job. he's in the sign factory, if you want to call it that, where he paints signs and clerks to make sure that signs get painted. it's a long way from wall

street. >> yeah, i'll say. so why did he do it? what explanation did he give you for this? >> there's only one word that comes to mind, as i sat with him for 4.5 hours. it's called greed. the guy just wanted to be bigger than the next. he's a very charming guy. he's off the streets of brooklyn. he's no dummy. you can see how people put trust in him. at the end of 4.5 hours, you're a little skeptical, obviously, about all of his answers. but he's a charming guy. his hair is cut short. he's 71 years old. he's adapting to prison life. i'm sure he'll adapt well. >> madoff described his scam to you. it wasn't exactly a sophisticated operation, was it? >> it was not only not sophisticated. it is amazing how simple it was. >> he was actually pretty surprised that it wasn't figured

out by authorities sooner, that he didn't get caught sooner. >> he thought, in the year 2000-2001, to use the coal ok colloquially phrase, the gig was up. in 2002 he was involved in a situation he had to be audited where he thought for sure he might be caught. in 2005, the s.e.c. sat down with him for a full day and grilled him and told me when he left that meeting, late in the afternoon, four, five, whatever it was. he thought the following morning he would -- excuse he moo, the following monday he would closed down. that's in 2005. i asked him, i said bernie, how much money did you have essentially in your fund at that time. i said was it about $16 billion or $18 billion by our calculation? he said no, it was probably closer to 20.

so in 2005, 2006 when he sat down with the s.e.c., he thought on monday, he would be closed down. had he been closed down. $20 billion would have been saved of investors money. >> how do you think he was able to fool the feds for so long? >> truly, i don't want to use the word incompetent, but it's absolutely clear to me that people never dug to the next level and the next level was not very deep by his own admission. >> this is stunning. stunning. >> it's beyond stunning. it's beyond stunning to think how simple the scam was. when i left, after 4 1/2 hours, my partner and i nancy fineman said to me. can you believe it? i said frankly, it's a book worth being read by every regulator in the united states and outside of this country. >> let me ask you this. did he, in your conversations, express any remorse? does he grasp how many people

he's hurt? >> the final -- one of the final questions was asked by my partner, nancy fineman, she looked over and said bernie, what do you want me to tell when i leave here today, when i got on a plain in raleigh and leave north carolina, what do you want me to tell the people i represent? there was a silence for a moment, he leaned over and said tell them how sorry i am. now, those are mere words, campbell. whether or not, in this guy's heart he's sorry, if one thing is for sure. one thing is for sure, he's not happy in the circumstances that he now finds himself. whether or not that translates into a contrition and/or true sorriness. sorry is immaterial. because sorry is not going to get any money back for these victims. >> joseph, an attorney for victims of bernie madoff on his prison meeting with the man at

the center of it all. "larry king live," coming up at the top of the hour. here's larry king himself to tell us what he's working on. larry. >> he, himself. it's the controversy that won't go away. arrest of harvard professor henry louis gates. is any good coming from this debate over who is right, who is wrong, who is what? we'll let you in on the stunning conversation, by the way, michael jackson had with a very good friend about the valley of death. deepak chopra is here to tell us what he knows about the pop star's remarks. all next on "larry king live." campbell. >> all right, larry, see you in a few. so those blue dog democrats in the house quit dragging their feet on health care reform?

president obama took her on a new role as salesman in chief today. purring the health care plan in

north carolina in virginia. he's been at it for many delays, meanwhile on capitol hill. a headline deal was reached to could bring health care reform one step closer. >> key helps of the blue dogs, fiscally conservative moderate to house democrats say they reached a deal with a democratic leadership. many liberal on the health care reform bill. if the blue dogs are getting on board will the republicans soon follow? >> the president called good news how significant is the deal and details? >> it's a significant bill means every house bill will have passed before the recess. >> they know they have a message problem. the president hit the road again today with a retooled pitch. >> we will not sign a bill that isn't right. for the american people. >> so is health care the issue that could make or break the

early stage of obama presidency? joining me candy crowley and republican strategist babe buchanan as well. also with me. former ceo of play boy enterprises. and columnist for the new york observer. candy, let me start with you. what is the latest on this deal? seems like a good thing on the surface, for democrats. in a way could be a setback for the president. explain it. >> well, because, yes, it does enable house democrats to try to move this thing out of committee. that means before they go to recess they have a bill outside of the committee process ready for the floor, nearly ready for the floor. but what did they give up? they gave up a vote on the floor before they go home. so the blue dogs, conservative democrats said to the leadership you promise not to have a vote until the fall. time is not on a bills side.

the longer a bill is out there. the more it becomes a pinata. that's exactly what the white house didn't want. the president pressed and pressed and pressed to get this done before they left on august recess. that's because everybody picks it apart then. the longer you have it out there the worse it is for the bill. >> the republicans, this is what they wanted. they said very publicly delaying this vote if they were able to delay this vote, that it would break the president. did the blue dog testimony democrats handle the republicans a win here? >> no question this is what republicans are hoping for. for real reason so this bill could get out. and we could take a look at it and american people can see it and get back to their congressman and tell them what they think about it. we feel the more the american people know about it. there's no question, we will not go down the route that's been proposed by barack obama. >> and, steve, to babe's point, liberals are worried this is it.

it is dead now. congress goes home to their districts. touting what a disaster this plan is and it's over. >> timing is not ideal for obama right now. it's dominated by rearview mirror thinking. this is how you kill health care. you delay it, stall it and say you don't want to go down this road. times are different in 2009 than they were. the move to the public is a lot different. they are not going to tolerate rejecting health care. obama started to make the point more forcefully in the last week. you don't want to do it, here's the alternative. costs will double. deficit will soar. more people go on ensured. we do it for 60 years, do you want to do it, i think in the end that weighs in. >> you have a truly unique perspective in a way as a

business woman. is this something from what we know, granted details are very much fluid at this stage. business in your view should get behind or something they should be afraid of. you hear from two different points of view. >> business is behind it. it's not worth ignoring that everybody from wall mart is actually engaged in this conversation. i think what's different also from back when the clintons tried it. every stakeholder is staying at the table. they are not outside of the tent criticizing it p. that, combined with the fact that the public so clearly sees what we have is broken. i think is going to make it a different dynamic. >> here's the big hurdle. the president has been out there talking about this every day. yet, look at this new poll just out from time magazine today. american americans so pessimistic. 65 say it makes everything more complicated, 56% say it means less freedom to choose doctors

and coverage. what does that say to you? he's talking nonstop. >> they say they need to tweak the message. up until now the conversation has been about saving costs. if you look inside those numbers, those who have health insurance, and let's remember that the vast majority of americans, those who have health insurance are much more likely to say all those things. so what the president has done today, is to start talking about no, you will still be free to choose your doctor. you will still be free to have the health care plan you want. now republicans differ with that analysis of what's going on. nonetheless, he's now talking in specific terms, here's what is in it for you because it is true, while people in general think, yeah, let's reform health care, you get down to these details that's when everybody begins to back off, particularly who have -- >> well, i think understandability should be a

goal here. i don't think the administration has done a good a job as used to. but i also think it's not going to be a situation where the work ends when legislation is passed. we're trying to transform a system we're all a part of from a focus on illness to a focus on wellness. that's going to acquire everybody to be transformed. >> campbell, quickly. >> nearly 90% of the country has insurance and most of them are very happy with it. the problem with barack obama, he keeps saying things. he sells this deal as cutting costs. end up nothing is going to change, keep your plan. that is simply not the case. as a result the american people got this message. they're very concerned, like what they have. 43% no longer trust the president. >> and republicans opposing it. want to kill barack obama with it are going to keep saying things, it's socialized medicine. completely made up, fabricated out of cloth. want to sit and make a charge about obama. come out and say something substance tiv.

there's nothing but no. >> you got to end it there. i'm sorry we're totally out of time. thanks, guys, appreciate it. >> sure. >> earlier tonight i spoke with rudy giuliani. as you saw, that interview covered a lot of ground. we have another question for the mayor. whether or not he'll make another run for the white house. we'll have his answer when we come back. (announcer) take your time to find the right time with cialis for daily use... a clinically proven, low-dose tablet for erectile dysfunction you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision

stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. (announcer) 36-hour cialis. or cialis for daily use. ask your doctor about cialis today, so when the moment is right, you can be ready.

and now the money question for rudy giuliani. what comes neck. the presidential campaign. what about a run for the governor here in the state of new york. happening right around the corner in 2010. is he considering either of those offices? here's his answer. >> i don't know, we'll see. i'm very interested in all of these issue. i talk about them whether i run or not run. you do gain a certain amount of experience from having been u.s. attorney, mayor and presidential candidate. if i run again, we'll see, we have to decide that at the end of this year, see about governor. >> former new york city mayor rudy giuliani joining us tonight. that is it for us tonight. thanks for joining us everybody, we'll see you right back here tomorrow night. "larry king live" coming up right after this.