you ride a bike, though, right? i wear one with my bike. >> thanks for watching tonight. "larry king" starts right now. >> larry: tonight the arrest seen around the world the professor and police, is the controversy uniting or dividing americans? the witness whose 911 call started it all breaks her silence. >> i would hope that people would learn not to judge others. and to really base it on fact. >> larry: plus michael jackson and the valley of death. the man he asked about going there is here. deepak chopra reveals a haunting conversation with the king of pop. and then michael's personal fi decision, dr. conrad murray had huge debts.

did he do anything jackson wanted to return for a big monthly paycheck? all next on "larry king live." good evening, we have an outstanding panel with us tonight to discuss the occurrences at harvard. here in los angeles, the famed media commentator larry elder. in chicago, michael eric dyson, university professor of sociology at georgetown. new york times best selling author, books include "april 4th, 1968." here in l.a. ben stein, economist, former presidential speech writer and new york times best selling author as well. and also in l.a., judge joe brown who presides over the tv court reality show that bears his name. served as a judge in shelby county criminal court in memphis, tennessee as well as a reserved police officer in memphis.

let's start with the panel. jen general colin powell, former secretary of state made his first public comments last night on this show. take a look. >> are you saying gates was wrong? >> i'm saying skip in this instance might have waited a while, come outside, talked to the officer and that would have been the end of it. i think he should have reflected whether this was the time to make a big deal. but he was just home from china, just home from new york. he wanted to get to bed. his door was jammed. >> larry: some have said that he brings the history of the body into this black movement? >> that may have been the case. i think it might have been resolved in a different manner if we didn't have a verbal alteration between the two of them. my first teaching point for young people especially, not dr. gates. when the police are looking into

something, if you're involved in it, cooperate, don't make the situation more difficult. i think in this case the situation was made more difficult on the part of the cambridge police department. once they felt they had to bring dr. gates out of the house and to handcuff him, i would have thought at that point somebody adult supervision would have stepped in and said okay, look, it is his house. come on. let's not take this any further, take the handcuffs off. good night, dr. gates. >> larry: okay. larry alder is that a sound way to look at it? professor got angry. it was his house. should have gotten -- verbally got outside and police shouldn't have arrested him. >> it's a diplomatic way of looking at it. one might expect from a diplomat i agree gates should not have been arrested. the officers i plained you're trained to take this abuse in the academy and they should walk away. i disagree the pass he gave on

skip gates. by gates' own admission he couldn't get into his house because he was the target of a break-in. the officer didn't know if he was the owner of the house. gates plays the race card, saying you're doing this because i'm a black man in america. you don't know who i am. you haven't heard the last of this. >> larry: have you ever been racially profiled? >> define racially profiled? >> larry: were you singled out because you were black? >> well, racially profiled means you're singled out solely because you're black. >> larry: have you ever had it happened to you? >> i've been stopped before. >> larry: you're unusual then. >> wait a minute. larry. let me answer the question. i've been stopped before. when i've been stopped, the officers have given me a reason why i've been stopped. do i think i was unfairly stopped before? perhaps. >> larry: you're taking powell out of context. he did say that you should calm it down and never argue with a

cop. >> he said perhaps gates overreacted or something to that effect. there's no perhaps about it. he went off on this officer unfairly. >> larry: you weren't there and i wasn't there. judge what's your read? >> i take a slightly different tack on this. i agree with the general, i heard him last night. if you want to avoid undue drama, yes, there's something else here, the general was sworn to and did a great job of upholding the constitution. let's apply that. first off when the officer showed up, knocked on the door, police, come out. no? what's he going to do? constitution doesn't give him any authority to do a thing, because no officer witnessed the event. he doesn't have reasonable suspicion that there was a felony convicted. if he had gotten in there, let me see your i.d. fifth amendment says you have an absolute right to remain silent. you have no obligation and cannot be compelled to offer evidence against yourself. let me see your i.d. no. at that point, they are

trespassing in the man's house, unless they can show cause. >> larry: do you think he was completely correct, gates? >> i would say that it was something that was going to cause him undue drama. but i think as a citizen of a free democratic society, sometimes we have to do things the hard way and keep the law enforcement, the government, and everybody, acting appropriately. >> larry: ben? >> first of all, it's a story about jet lag as the general said. jet lag is a nasty, horrible thing. when you come back from a 30-hour trip you're in a bad mood. your judgment is thrown off. probably not a time to make wild decisions or bad decisions. probably a time to take baby steps and not start screaming at the police. but black people are tired of being pushed around. they've been pushed around in this country for a very long time. police are tired of being pushed around, too. a policeman goes out every day, he's taking his life in his hands.

>> larry: the general is right? >> i think the general is completely right. both of them should have been more sensitive to the other. absolutely. >> larry: what's your read, michael dyson? >> i think, look, the police are tired of being pushed around. it's amazing to me. look at the history of interactions between the african-american people and the police departments of this land, there's been a decision proportionate amount of concentration of pow ee eer on police. they have the gun, the badge, the ability to intimidate. they make up story, they generate narrative, throw down guns. that's the history. not most of them but enough to make the life of average american person stopped by miserable. unlike larry elder, i have several instances i feel i've been profiled, singled out and mistreated. once i was stopped with my brother claiming that we stole the very car that my father owned. when i reached for my wallet to prove that i had the registration, the cop pulled out a gun and said the n-word, i

will shoot you dead right here. then when they ran the registration, saw that it was our car, there was no apology. they got in their car and left. first of all, we weren't there, we don't know what he said. he has a right to say it. he's in his own home and i think he's absolutely right. >> larry: colin powell saying we under the history, understand the anger. completely okay to be angry. but put it down a little. this is a cop who teaches racial profiling and how to deal with it. police put it down a little. don't you feel at all, larry, as a black man, any sympathy for professor gates? >> i feel a great deal of sympathy for a police officer who, as ben stein just now said. goes out every day and is willing to take a bullet for somebody you don't even know. gates ought to be sympathetic to the fact that a neighbor was concerned enough to call because she thought somebody was break

into his house, and empathy enough to know that officer was trying to find out if he was the owner of the home. >> larry: do you think it was racially motivated? and hear from the woman who made the 911 call. that's ahead. with an epa estimated 32 miles per gallon. and up to 600 miles between fill ups. it's the most fuel efficient crossover on the highway. better than honda cr-v, toyota rav4 and even the ford escape hybrid. the all new chevy equinox. to stay on top of my game after 50, i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day men's 50+ advantage...

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>> larry: we're back with the panel. the woman that made the 911 call that led to professor gates' arrest spoke out publicly for the first time today. here's some of what she said.

>> i hope now that the truth of the tapes will help heal the cambridge community. >> i saw from a distance, this older woman was worried thinking someone's breaking into someone's house. they've been barging in, they kind of used their shoulders to try to barge in and they got in. i don't know if they had a key or not because i couldn't see from my angle. >> when i was called racist and i was a target of scorn and ridicule because of the things i never said. >> they're on their way. >> okay. i guess i'll wait. the criticism hurt me as a person, but it also hurt the community of cambridge. >> judge brown, no one can blame -- >> she did the right thing. >> she did the right thing. no problem. but did you see? i don't know if he had a key or not.

at what point do you say there's a burglary in process. at that point you approach a citizen at home, the bill of rights guarantees you security in your house. >> larry: you're saying the cop is wrong? >> dead wrong. how would he prove it if gates had just shut up and arrested him. i almost had a case like that, almost identical circumstances. everybody was going through all the stuff and it went up to the criminal court of appeals. i said this is ridiculous. this man had an absolute right as a citizen. >> larry: why, ben, didn't he just say this is my house? >> he should have said this is my house. here's my i.d., we're done. kindly leave. he started cursing at the guy. the police have a sort of unwritten rule. if the guy cursed him inside his own house. we let him get away with it. if he's foolish to curse him

outsi outside, it can lead to an arrest. but in both cases it's fatigue, overwork, lack of respect. people have to respect each other more. there's got to be more respect. >> here's my problem with it. when obama had the press conference. he admitted he didn't have all of the facts, was a friend of skip gates, therefore he was bias. then proceeded to suggest that gates was right. gates was a victim of racial profiling. this is a metaphor for what's going on in this country. that's right, he did dial it back. but a disproportionate amount of crime is committed in the black community and victims are usually black people. there's a great deal of hostility between cops and citizens and neither should stereotype the other. that's what obama should have said. i think a lot of people, larry -- >> larry: you're knocking obama now? >> i am. >> larry: where did that come from? he apologized. they're both going to see him tomorrow. >> why should both be invited? if i were crowley, i would say mr. president, thank you for

your invitation, but you can take your beer and shove it. but you need to apologize to me and to the kim bridge community for suggesting that i engaged in racial profiling when i didn't do it. >> larry: michael, go ahead. go ahead, michael. >> here's the thing. obama is a gentleman, he wants to reconcile. said i ratcheted the conversation up. he didn't apologize, because he felt the police certainly shouldn't have arrested skip gates. a guy 5'7" with a cane is no visible threat. i agree with judge brown. the moment you get in the man's house he's telling you i live here. ben stein said he's cursing him out. there's no evidence to suggest that. all'm saying to you is skip gates is saying this is my house. according to both of them. then the police are overreacting and abusing their power. what happened to the notion the police -- we love them for what they do. but they are an extension of our citizenship rights. they are to protect and serve. why do we have to walk around being intimidated by public servants? this is a disproportionate

amount of power in their hands. i am sure many whites feel the same way. it's exacerbated by race, but certainly the relationship between police and american citizens has to be relieved. >> disproportionate concentration of power in their hands? i have no idea what that means. >> let me tell you what it means. it means historically, black people have died disproportionately at the hands of police people. i'm saying to you, might have been -- oscar grant who was on the ground in oakland, california, and got shot. >> larry: one at a time. >> that's an example. oscar grant in oakland, california was on the ground begging the police not to hurt or harm him, and without provocation. he was shot. think about brother shawn in new york. >> larry: you made the point. you will admit in the history of the united states, there's been a lot of problems. >> we know about the history. >> larry: you don't dismiss that, do you? what else do you have?

>> this is 2009 and professor gates -- got a black mayor, a governor that's got a black governor. a state that's got a black governor and lives in a country that has a black president. this is not your grandfather's police department. >> larry: back in 60 seconds. welcome to the now network. population: 49 million. right now 1.2 million people are on sprint mobile broadband. 31 are streaming a sales conference from the road. eight are wearing bathrobes. two... less. - 154 people are tracking shipments on a train. - ( train whistles ) 33 are im'ing on a ferry. and 1300 are secretly checking email... - on a vacation. - hmm? ( groans )

that's happening now. america's most dependable 3g network. bringing you the first and only wireless 4g network. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. >> i don't know not having been there, what role race played in that? >> that's a complicated issue because i wasn't there and i don't know all the facts. >> the cambridge police acted stupidly. >> i couldn't save him. i couldn't save him. >> larry: there are late night comedians having fun. it remains a serious discussion, professor gates and sergeant crowley offering their version of what happened last week.

each defended what he said and did. here are some of their comments. >> we got to the house in harvard square and the door was jammed. i asked the driver to push the door through. the cambridge policemen showed up. i said this is my house, you i'm a harvard professor, i live here, he said can you prove it? >> i didn't want this either. i was confused. >> why are you not responding? because you're a white police officer and i'm a plaque man? >> i didn't want to take drastic action. i knew it was going to bring a certain am of attention, but mr. gates pushed it and provoked and just wouldn't stop. >> this officer said thank you for accommodating my earlier request. you are under arrest. he took me to the cambridge police station and booked me. fingerprints, mug shots. >> i know what i did was right. i have nothing to apologize for. >> larry: if this is a teachable moment, as president obama suggests, what are we supposed

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>> larry: ben, what do we learn interesting? >> we think we learn policeman are tired on being picked on by intellectuals. black people are tired of being pushed around by policeman. they both have dangerous lives. the harvard professor did not leave his home thinking he's got a good chance of being killed. the policeman does. let's cut him some slack. >> larry: what have we learned, michael? >> i think look, the history of racial profiling is real. let's deal with that. cops have an extremely important and tough job. we have to be empathetic to them. thirdly, we have to come together as black, white, latino and other people and realize the

police are an extension of our right to survive, not to intimidate us. it took the pedigree of harvard professor and president to come up against the authority of the police department. let's find a way to make them friendly presences in our neighborhoods and not intimidating ones. >> larry: larry what have we learned? >> we learned barack obama during the press conference sided with gates when gates decided there was racial motivation when crowley went to his home. i think he did a disservice. many people, i believe voted for barack obama in part because they thought he would bring the races together. and he would make a statement about how far we've come. >> larry: what is he doing tomorrow night? >> what he's doing tomorrow night is making a moral equivalency between what gates did and what crowley did. crowley was doing his job, and gates just went off on him. talked about his mama. all that stuff. >> larry: tell me what people

said crowley should not have arrested him. once he knew -- >> i said that when they first started. they're trained -- but it's still within his own discretion. most cops i talked to said they would have walked away. was it unlawful for him to have arrested this guy? was within his discretion? probably so. i would have walked away, but they're not morally equivalent. >> there's one thing you're getting away from. had gates been another type of individual, he would have had a right to have resisted this unlawful intrusion. >> larry: you said that. >> that would have been very interesting, had he chosen to do it. now, discretion, politeness. diplomacy have their ways. i don't think this is so much a racial issue as it is reflective of something in law enforcement, the society, the world at large to do things the easy way and cut corners. what i'm offended with is this whole process -- being a learning experience has been somewhat engendered by our

impetuosity. being engendered by our inquiring minds, can't wait to find out. >> larry: he says suck it up. >> it's a class issue too. i don't think the cambridge police like the fancy pants harvard professors. black, white, green or yellow. police don't like harvard professors. when he said i'm a harvard professor, didn't make him like him at all. >> had he been henry kissinger and president been george bush and a black cop arrested henry kissinger, that black cop very well may have been doing traffic duty that day. it would have been a much different kind of response. >> michael doesn't know that. it's a statement that you're projecting and you don't really know. i live in l.a. we have back-to-back black police officers, 50% of street cops are female or minority. it is not the same world. but you, michael eric die son a act as if nothing changed and if i don't show 100% empathy for professor gates, i have never experienced any bad experience from a police officer.

>> that's not what i said. that's for argument. you said barack obama is a black man. because the governor of the state is black, the mayor is black. that's significant change. but that doesn't change the on-the-street level where interactions between black and white people are most lethal. that's where we have to concentrate -- >> nothing's changed? >> that's your argument. >> i'm telling you significant clangs -- things have changed but things remain the same enough for us to go there and try to fix them. that's what i'm suggesting. >> larry: okay. we should do a lot more on this, because it ain't going away. the two parties meet tomorrow. we thank ben stein. larry elder. ben stein. judge joe brown. katherine jackson's attorney made a move that could affect the handling of her son's estate. find out what she wants next.

>> larry: joined by jim moret, and ted rollins, cnn correspondent. ted, we understand that jackson senior had a statement today. >> yeah, very bizarre. did an interview with joe jackson. he basically talked about the young man that could be michael jackson's son. the interviewer asked joe jackson about it. >> larry: let's watch what he said. >> so many things, but the other day, michael may have had another child. omar is his name? everyone was sitting there. everyone tried to connect dots. do you know him as michael's other son?

>> yes. i knew he had another son. yes, i did. >> he looks like a jackson. >> oh, yes. he looks like a jackson, acts like a jackson, can dance like a jackson. this boy is is a fantastic dancer. yes. >> thought maybe he's the future of the family. >> i don't know. i can't say it yet, until i see it happen. >> larry: okay. stranger and stranger. jim, what do you make of this? >> he didn't really say omar is his son. but he said -- >> he said looks like a duck, acts like a duck. >> based what joe jackson is saying lately, this is kind of in character. >> larry: what do we do? what does it mean to the story? >> it means nothing to michael jackson's death, but it definitely fuels the fire on the whole speculation of michael

jackson's life. that, of course is a huge part of the story. >> absolutely. >> larry: what's the latest on the investigation. >> they served search warrants yesterday in las vegas. one at dr. conrad's home, the other at the clinic. they're looking at what they found which is basically computer files, took out hard drives, took his cell phones, looking at all of that. keep in mind this works to his advantage. they're looking for evidence. they don't care if he's innocent or guilty. what they find could help him or hurt him. >> larry: what do we know? what do we know? >> what do we really know? >> we know when the doctor called 911. we know he waited 20, 30 minutes. investigators want to know, first of all, when did he find michael jackson in a state of cardiac arrest. why did he deliver diprivan. how long did he administer this? if the doctor delivered diprivan to michael jackson he's got serious problems. you can't deliver it outside of

a hospital setting. we know that. you can't get it without a prescription. we know that. >> larry: those are all ifs. >> they're not ifs -- well, because we don't have the cause of death. >> larry: right, we won't know that until next week. >> we know that they're looking for evidence of a homicide. this doctor has serious problems. we know that. >> michael jackson may have had the diprivan. that's one thing they'll look at. >> larry: the fact he gave him diprivan is that a crime? >> technically it's not an illegal substance. was it gross negligence? probably. will charges be filed? probably. but he could have a good excuse if he's trained in it. if he used it a million times in his clinic. he can say i was well trained in it. i was giving it to him for x, y or z reason.

>> larry: only anesthesiologists use it, right? >> yes. and you need certain equipment to monitor breathing and the oxygen levels in the blood. if none of that equipment was at michael jackson's house, then yes. it's malpractice. it could be criminal. not just a little problem it's a big problem. >> larry: curiouser, and curiouser. michael jackson's personal chef kai chase is scheduled to be on the show tomorrow night. also written a blog and you can read it only on cnn.com/larry king. michael jackson inquired about something that could take him to the valley of death and back. e . and now, with the cash for clunkers program, a great deal gets even better. let us recycle your older vehicle, and you could qualify for an additional $3500 or $4500 cash back... on top of all other offers.. on a new, more fuel efficient chevy. your chevy dealer has more eligible models to choose

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>> larry: joining us in new york, deepak chopra, medical doctor, spiritual teacher, long time friend of michael jackson. in atlanta, dr. sanjay gupta. cnn medical correspondent and practicing neurosurgeon. deepak, you had an eerie conversation with michael. in hindsight you believe he was talking about diprivan. what happened? >> very casually over the phone, he just dropped a line like deepak. have you heard of the thing that takes you immediately to the valley of death, and then brings you right back. i said i've never heard of such -- something like that. perhaps you know something that i don't know. because i was unfamiliar with

this. and now, of course, in hindsight, i realize he might have been talking about diprivan which acts within 40 seconds of being administered intravenously. actually if you don't keep the patient on the drip, it also brings you back right away. so sounds very much like -- >> larry: i guess it is like a kind of death. you are not conscious of anything. >> yes, and according to some people, it also produce assort of euphoria as it takes you into this state of deep hypnosis. the problem is, and you should ask sanjay this, even the toxicology report could be inconclusive, because the drug has such a short life. disappears from the blood, gets into the tissues in the brain and unless they took that, they were actually looking for that in the beginning. the tex kolg repo-- toxicology y not help at all.

>> larry: i mentioned before i had cataract surgery recently and i had diprivan, and i don't remember getting it and i just remember waking up and i thought they hadn't done it yet. they had done it already. i was gone and up. sanjay -- let sanjay respond. do you think it might not show up in a toxicology report? >> dr. chopra is absolutely right. first of all it's not a routine toxicology test. i talked to a lot of people over the last several weeks regarding this issue. unless they knew to check for it. because it disappears so quickly you may not be able to test for it directly. what happens it does get stored in fat. you may look at fat and test for it. also people who chronically use it you can test the hair for it as well. finally sometimes it breaks down into various by-products and sometimes you can test for those by-products. not specific for diprivan but it may give you a pretty good idea. >> larry: deepak, why would someone take it other than just to go to sleep?

and it's not long-acting. you would wake up soon. >> it's never, ever been given to anyone to sleep. only time it's been abused, by the way, is by an anesthesiologist. i believe there are three or four reported deaths. they are all amongst medical people from the medical profession who know how to administer it intravenously. and furthermore, you have to give it as a drip. if you give it as a bullet, you come back right away as you did in your surgery. it should never be given unless you have recourse to a respirator and can intubate a person. this is most unusual. you have to remember, though, michael was rehearsing until midnight. whatever killed him he must have gotten that after midnight. until midnight he was up and about. >> larry: sanjay you took your viewers into the operating room you know very well to give them a first-hand look at the proper administration of this drug.

let's watch that. >> we're here with the chief of anesthesiology here. he uses this all of the time. is this it right over here? >> yes. >> looks -- milk of amnesia. >> take some good deep breaths. >> we are just going to take a look at his eyes. >> deep breaths. doing great. you may feel a little burning, okay? >> deep breaths. >> nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. >> there's a reason for his heart rate increasing. see his eyes are closed. >> his eyes closed. >> he stopped breathing. he's not breathing and my

wonderful method is going to help him breathe. >> take a look. this mask, without that medication, he wouldn't be able to breathe on his own without those things. >> larry: more with the doctors in 60 seconds. in early. we just know. announcer: finding the moment that's right for you both can take some time. that's why cialis gives men with erectile dysfunction options: 36-hour cialis or cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. announcer: cialis for daily use or 36-hour cialis.

ask your doctor if cialis is right for you, so when the moment is right, you can be ready. >> larry: we're back with deepak chopra and sanjay gupta. michael jackson wrote a song calling it "morphine" a little disturbing. listen. ♪ demerol ♪ demerol oh god he's taking demerol ♪ ♪ ♪ demerol ♪ demerol oh god he's taking demerol ♪ ♪

>> larry: what do make of that deepak? >> michael was a tortured soul, if you under the context of his life, you understand why he could have been a tortured soul. he was a loving, compassionate human being but he also had a a lot of self-loathing, a lot of shame and also an obsession with self-mutilation as evidenced by the surgery. trauma in childhood. >> larry: sanjay -- sanjay, what does demerol do? >> demerol is a narcotic. a pain medication. some people can get high by taking it, a sense of euphoria. you can also develop a tolerance to it. i never heard that song before. larry, sounds like someone talking about addiction, talking about tolerance, talking about someone who wants to beat addiction. it's really, really wild to hear that.

>> larry: sanjay, as a doctor, are we ever going to get the answer to this? >> i think when we hear the final result, we're going to hear something that says most likely cause of death was "x." because most of the autopsy was done, toxicology was already performed. it's probably going to be something that has to do with drugs, maybe a combination of drugs. going back to dr. chopra's point, diprivan which had so much attention focused on it. because it's not is drug to be administered at home. may be hard to draw that exact cause and effect. >> larry: do you want we'll ever get all of the answers? >> i don't know. all i can say, he was so vital the night before. he wasn't expected to die. i tell you that. >> larry: i agree with that. that seems obvious. deepak chopra, dr. sanjay gupta

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i think i'll go with the preferred package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. >> larry: before we meet our next panel, let's check in with anderson cooper who will cost "360" at the top of the hour. what's up? >> dr. conrad murray turns out he was deeply in debt and had a prior arrest history. we'll tell you about that. you've been talking to sanj sanjay gupta. he has a hidden camera investigation to show you how easy it is to score prescription drugs in under an hour.

and tensions are running very high, white supremacists versus black supremacists clashing in protests. those stories ahead on "anderson cooper." larry? >> larry: marcia clark contributed to the "dale beat" and legal correspondent tonight. trent copeland and jim moret. chief correspondent for the "inside edition" also an attorney. marsha does it look like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck, criminal charges coming? >> sounds like a duck is about to get arrested for second degree murder. interesting thing there's no in between. it's either involuntary manslaugter or second degree murder which is 15 to life. big, big long fall there but that's the way it looks. >> murder for what, trent, for doing what? >> i'm not a exactly sure, larry.

we've had a feeding frenzy here for the last several weeks associated with dr. con regard murray. if you give someone diprivan, this is a lethal cocktail. it's something that's almost certainly going to result in the death. but i'm not so sure that's a fair assessment of what the facts in the case are. most people have diprivan. if you've undergone a routine colonoscopy, you've had diprivan. there isn't always a battery of medical personnel. there may be a single doctor. may be an anesthesiologist. sometimes it can be just a doctor. we talk about whether or not a cardiologist should have been with michael jackson, monitoring his heart, his res pir ration and breathing. reality dr. conrad murray was that cardiologist. he had oxygen tanks, other breathing apparatus. we may not have seen the thing. >> larry: could he be a doctor doing doctor things? >> i'm sitting in the middle. you can't use diprivan in the house.

i never heard of one doctor ever heard of it being used outside of a clinic or hospital. that's my big problem. >> larry: is it a crime if you do? >> absolutely not. >> it may not be a crime. but it clearly can be negligence. >> larry: do you think criminal prosecution -- >> yes, i do. >> larry: you do? >> i absolutely do. based upon what we believe to be true. >> i don't want to convict this guy before he's charged. >> larry: what if the toxicology report doesn't show dip van? >> this is how dr. murray doesn't get arrested. if you have a cocktail of drugs, and they come from a variety oaf drugs you're not going to be able to charge anyone because it's michael jackson taking a variety of things. >> larry: is the patient responsib responsible?

if he scores from it different doctors. he's got friends doing it. what did the doctor do wrong? >> the doctor is principled, vied gooided by the principle of first, do no wrong. and the truth is that the doctor has a responsibility to that patient. but if i'm the defense lawyer representing michael jackson, the first thing i'm looking for are people who supplied michael jackson with this, enabled him with this. i'm looking for the combination of drug interactions and how those things may have worked adversary. so with diprivan. michael jackson's good name may be dragged into this as well in terms of what responsibility he had for his own health.

>> larry: is all of this speculation going to affect the case, jim, if there is a case? >> yes and no. i think the fact is we will know what killed michael jackson when the report comes out. >> larry: we will? >> yes. and you may have a case similar to anna nicole smith. you didn't have murder charges, but you had conspiracy and drug charges, i've been told by one doctor there are 19 doctors being investigated in some fashion or another, and 11 different aliases, at least. it is a crime to prescribe drugs under an alias, so those doctors, if they're involved, could face charges. >> marcia, are some autopsy reports inconclusive? >> they can. the coroner could say, look, i don't see a homicide, i see an inconclusive, i see cardiac arrest caused by a variety of causes. >> larry: trent, should all these doctors have lawyers ready? >> i think all of these are already lawyered up, larry,

whether we know of it publically or not, i think every possible outcome has been speculated by these lawyers, i think every one of these doctors who's provided some care or treatment to michael jackson, have all got lawyers. edit roller coaster ♪ ♪ and as you can see it kinda bites! ♪ ♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪ ♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ like a wanna-be frat boy trying to get down ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dot com - stat! ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage.

>> larry: jim, could a pharmacy be in trouble? >> that's a good question. i think a pharmacy is the ultimate gatekeeper. you have one pharmacy with $100,000 in outstanding bills, which they have admitted, against michael jackson. should they have noticed that too much medication was going to one person . their out could have been it was under a number of different aliases. they didn't know it was all going to michael jackson. so i think they have a defensible position. >> larry: marcia, what about

involuntary manslaugter? i didn't mean to harm him. >> that would be him committing a misdemeanor. that's a two, three or four-year state prison, what we call misdemeanor manslaughter. it could happen if that is what they charge him with. if action for example, he had certainly measures that he could be taking to counteract the diprivan, he wasn't as willfully negligent, then involuntary manslaughter would be the way to go. >> larry: as a lawyer, if you were representing dr. murray, and you believed he had a good story, would you ask him to do media? >> no. >> larry: because? >> first of all, larry, he has in essence done some media. you can believe that those tli hours of taped interviews that he gave immediately following michael jackson's death will be released. at some point in time we'll hear

exactly, if they were tape recorded conversations, and i suspect that they were, we're going to hear portions of that. we're also going to see the transcripts associated with that interview. it can't do anything other than hurt him. he will have made certain admissions, certain statements that will almost always come back to bite him. so, no, i wouldn't advise him to do it. >> larry: is he already a villain? >> i think he's certainly being cast as a villain. we know his offices and house were searched, and the warrant said they're looking for evidence of homicide, of manslaughter. the word "manslaughter" and dr. murray have been tied together already what kind of doctor are we? >> from what we're hearing, not a very good one. >> larry: an internist? >> a cardiologist. he's been in trouble before. he's had an arrest before. this is not a doctor with a great history. the fact they're serving search warrants on his homes indicates they're looking for all kinds of conduct that indicates he is a criminal.

>> there was some concern with the medical board. >> i thought he was suspended. >> i don't know. >> larry: why would his personal doctor be a cardiologist, not an internist. if a cardiologist is your personal doctor, you have a heart problem. >> in this case, this man was a friend first, then became his doctors. michael jackson specifically asked for this doctor. aeg didn't want this doctor, michael did. >> larry: what's the delay in the report? >> well, there's been speculation about one reason is it's done, ready to go, but the chief is not in town and it will not be released -- >> larry: does she release it? >> no, but they're sitting on it until he gets back in town. the other possibility and i would do this ifs a prosecutor, i would hold this report until i was ready to file charges or not file charges so it all comes out together and avoid the speculation if possible. >> larry: do you agree? >> i think marcia makes a good point.

i would probably hold all the documents and make sure that the department, the coroner's office, the sheriff, the d.e.a., everyone involved in this investigation all spoke with one voice at one time. >> larry: when does this go away? >> there's too many questions to be answered. we have to know what the cause of death is, what other doctors were involved. this will last for a while. >> larry: why are we fascinated? >> how with can we help it? it is the king of pop. >> larry: can't bring him back. >> can't bring him back. i think there's a sociological issue. prescription drug abuse is the cocaine of this millennium. remember, cocaine was all of that in the '80s. now we have prescription drug abuse. every adult with health care coverage and can afford the insurance can get a prescription drug high if they want. it's an issue that's prevalent, so it's a big deal by itself. >> larry: pushed steroids off the front page. >> sure did. >> larry: athletes are thanking us. earlier, we showed you a clip o