summit, it rages on with charges against barack obama. it is that he is a racist. the president, a racist. wow! and, there is more. >> i am not a racist. >> this police officer called professor gates a jungle monkey. a what? donna brazile joins me with her unique take and perspective. the new scare tactic on health care reform. it will pay for abortions. you will see the ad and i will fact check it. senators boroso from the right and brown from the left join me. so will you at this national conversation nurse, july 30th, 2009. it begins right now. hello, everybody. good to be back.

this is a unique conversation. it is not a speech. it is your turn to get involved. this is the officer versus the professor story that continues. we are hours away from the president sitting down with both for what some are calling the beer summit. but, wait. there are now new and unfortunate developments in this story. just hours ago, a boston police officer, did you hear about this? he was disciplined for essentially trying to, well, throw gasoline on this controversy. officer justin barrett wrote an e-mail to a boston globe correspondent, who had written about this case. the thing reads unbelievably. i have chosen a couple of excerpts to take you through so you can kind of understand where this guy is coming from. he writes, if i was the officer he verbally assaulted like a banana-eating jungle monkey, i would have sprayed him in the face. number two, i might as well ax

you the question. he is talking to the reporter and specifically uses that word, ax. i might as well ax you the question, is this your first test at reporting? this is the police officer talking. number three, quote, he, indeed, has transcended back to a bumbling jungle monkey, g-damn fool and you this arl r article. boston's police commission ter, just a couple hours ago, he came out and announced a suspension and a possibly termination saying the officer's actions did not live up to his department's standards. take a listen. >> the officer's actions do not comply. that e-mail was racist and inflammatory. these racist opinions and

feelings have no place in this department or in our society and will not be tolerated. >> it continues. two right wing broadcasters, one on tv and the other on the radio, are calling the president, a, quote, racist and an angry negro respectively. we are going to discuss all of this at length with some of our guests but i want to begin with one person we haven't heard from yet in this controversy, the woman who called police to report a suspected burglar at the home of harvard professor, henry louis gates. she wants her story to be heard and here is her story as told by our own elaine kahano. >> reporter: joined by her husband and her attorney, lucia whalen reluctantly came before the camera. >> cambridge is a wonderful place. when i was called racist, and i

was a target of scorn and ridicule because of the things i never said -- >> what she never said in her 911 call to cambridge police was that she saw two black men. >> well, there were two larger men. one looks kind of hispanic but i'm not really sure and the other one entered and i didn't see what he looked like at all. >> in his police report, sergeant james crowley said he spoke to whalen on the scene and said she described seeing what appeared to be two black males with backpacks, that's not what whalen said she said? >> as i said, the only words i exchanged was that i was the 911 caller and he pointed to me and said, stay right there. >> nothing more? >> nothing more than that. >> asked about the discrepancy, a cambridge police spokesman said, that's an issue that could be reviewed in the future. in the meantime, for lucia

whalen, vindication. >> now that the tapes are out, i hope people can see that i tried to be careful and honest with my words. >> reporter: despite everything, whalen says she would do it all again. >> you have to -- if you are concerned -- if you are a concerned citizen, you should do the right thing. if you are seeing something that seems suspicious. i would do the same thing. >> again, that's lucia whalen, the one entity that has been left out of this whole thing. she underscores she was not racially profiling when she called 911. there are thousands of you that have sent me e-mails. you have sent me e-mails, i-reports and tweets. you tell me that your experience tells you that the officers do this all the time. that crowley, sergeant crowley,

was probably wrong. just as i have received many e-mails from probably the same omt amount of you telling me that your experience tells you that people that are racially profiled deserve to be racially profiled. that's an interesting story that really is bringing out a lot of reactions as far as this national conversation, as we call it, is going. let's bring in somebody who knows a lot about this. it has been his life's duty. lou palombo. thanks for being with us, sir. >> my pleasure. >> what do you make of this boston police officer who sent this e-mail to this boston globe reporter where he sounds b bigoted, angry and hateful? >> i think he should look for other gainful employment. he has embarrassed his profession and supported the notion that policemen or law

enforcement officers overall are racist and it isn't the truth. it has helped facilitate more dialogue in an area we don't need to go. >> sergeant crowley, did he act stupidly? >> no, sir. quite candidly, sergeant crowley acted within his legal rights. i am not suggesting i would have handled the case the same way. the fact of the matter is, when people act in a loud or boyster rows or disturbing fashion, one of your options is to implement the law. that's what he did. it wouldn't have been my judgment. he was within his legal rights. >> so the president, you would argue, was wrong to use that word stupidly, when describing crowley's actions. >> so the president acted inappropriately when he used that word? >> i think he got ahead of

himself a little bit. maybe the byproduct of his relationship with professor gates. let the investigation take place and see where the facts lie. >> now, there are some people out there that are saying horrible things about the president. we heard the line, angry negro and one commentator calling him a racist. by the fak the president said this. perhaps he said something stupidly himself. does that make the president a racist? >> that's the furthest thing i think about barack obama. i happen to have voted for him. i think this guy is a very bright, talented and intelligent young man, just like his wife is. a bright woman, that is. >> as a cop, you have had to deal with this your entire life. there are people who bring to their experiences preconceived notions. they cause us all, whether it is about skinny people or overweight people or black people or hispanic people like me or cops like you to often prejudge. it doesn't mean i'm a bad guy or

you are a bad guy but we do have these. how do you reconcile this as a cop? >> you have to learn to think outside the box a little bit. i don't think there is any secret as to how the black community has been treated at times by the white community, number one. no less, the police department. in the case of professor gates, i think what he was just upset. i would have allowed him to continue to vent and then i would have diffused it by basically surrendering the power to him through an apology and just saying additionally, he should thank his neighbor for watching out for him. i don't think anything was gained by playing into it or feeding into it. >> it's important to have this conversation, though, isn't it? >> i get a feeling even talking to you and by the way, i'm really enjoying this conversation. you seem like a real commonsensical person. this is the kind of conversation that people in this country should be having. >> i think quite candidly, there is a lot of i go nerns, which is what fess terred this comment by the boston police department. we have to go back to that interesting thing called

education. people have to learn about where they live. i do believe that we are making progress, not as rapidly as i personally would like to see us make it. i think we are moving in the right direction. i think through dialogue and education and exposure, it will come about. the one thing you have to be mindful of, there is a lot of white america that lives polarized from black america. if you go out to the west coast, to california, for example, and this isn't a criticism, if you grow up in manhattan beach, malibu, the pacific palisades, hermosa beach, any number of any one of these communities that are predominantly white and then we insert you at 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, into an indigent neighborhood that's predominantly black, your in securities and your fierce kick in. the only knowledge you have regarding minorities is what you have learned on television. this is an interesting dynamic. it is not that complicated. i go back to saying, it is about training in the police

department, about an exchange of ideas and about education. you have to educate people. >> well, well, stated. a pleasure having you on. how much damage has the president done to himself? what about those that are now ripping him apart? are they helping him or hurting him in this case? think about that. as you watch my conversation, it's going to be coming up in a little bit with none other than donna brazile who has an interesting take, herself. can you imagine being a police officer at the end of this high-speed pursuit? who or what is that getting out of the car? stick around. we are going to explain this one to you. also, remember this conversation doesn't end at 4:00 eastern. stick around. a tv version of our national conversation is over. then, we will switch over to cnn.com/live, where it really gets wild. 4:00 eastern. i'll be right back.

a lot of you are weighing in on this conversation. let's start over here and hit our facebook page. >> not all cops are racist. there are some who think they are above the law. this is the reason that minorities feel resentment towards policemen. let's go to justin. police have become an elevated class of citizens. many have forgotten their positions as public servants. one more. it looks like a lot of you like my guest. let's go over to the twitter page. flip that around. a lot of you guys really liked

mr. loupolombo. he spoke with great insight. invite him back again. >> okay, we will. now, i want you to look at something else. how many times have you seen this type of video. this is dash cam video, a car chase. you know what's coming, right? wrong. get ready for a shock. watch who gets out of the car when this chase finally ends. it's a kid. it's a little kid. he is seven years old. that's his family's car. somebody called the police after seeing the boy driving 40 miles an hour at one point. he knew what to do, though, sort of. he did stop the car but then he took off running from the police officer. what in the world was this seven-year-old up to? the boy told his dad he just didn't want to go to church so he drove away in the car. this is crazy. the boy did not get a ticket, by the way. we are still trying to figure out if he was wearing the footsie pajamas, the ones that

resemble the batman and spiderman costumes like my kids wear. >> we have been following this story for a while for you. again, today, there are protests. there is another story coming out of iran. this is about a place called the evil jail. western reporters are just now finding about it. it is where they are sticking these protesters after they arrest them. you are not going to believe what they are doing to these protestors. stay with us. we will be right back.

welcome back. police and protestors in iran and a lot of tear gas.

i would say, here we go again. the public anger and some of the tension we have been seeing in tehran has never really died since the presidential election a month and a half ago. in some measure, you could rg ait is getting worse and so are some of the incidents around it. there is something else, something that seems sinister when i was reading about it last night. there are reports that are coming out of tehran from people just released from jail, protesters who say that they have been tortured, they have been starved, forced into false confessions families say bodies are being turned into them of their loved ones, in jail, bruised and battered and beaten, all for voicing their frustration at what they see as a corrupt election. i want you to look at some of these people, thousands of them. they fill the cemetery in tehran with a grave site in neda.

young women shot in the street at the height of the protest movement last month. the government told them not to do it again. they did it anyway. they came out, so did the troops, the riot police and tear gas. even the candidate, mir hossein mousavi showed up. the crowd started to get out of hand and he had to leave. here is what we want to do. we watch these and listen to some of these pictures. i want to bring in reza sayah. he is running cnn's iran desk once again today. give us a sense of how would you describe what's happened today on the streets of tehran? >> well, today told you that despite seven weeks of fierce crackdown by iran's leadership, this opposition movement still has plenty of momentum and is not going away. keep in mind, the opposition leaders went out to the leadership of iran and said, look, let us do this. let us commemorate this day. we are not going to make any noise. we are just going to read the koran and pray in silence. the government said, no, no more

gatherings linked to the election. not only did supporters come out but the leaders, defiant and energized. >> history would show us that whenever a toe tall tearian regime tries to thwart or stop a public display of emotion as we are seeing in iran, it backfires on them? in fact, you could argue that they have now found this jail where there are reports that people are being beaten and tortured and killed. that would innocence the public even more and make them want to come out and protest. the jailhouse you are talking about is in the southern portion of tehran. this is a notorious prison -- first of all, they don't tell anyone where they take these detainees. they disappear. their explanation is if it has to do with national security, we don't have to explain anything. there was a lot of talk that

they were at kazara. >> taking protestors? these are not murderers, or rapists? >> we don't know who they are. these are detainees in the protest that were taken in. under tremendous pressure from the opposition, what does the supreme leader do? he says, let's shut down kazra because it is not up to standards. he didn't say we have violated any kind of laos. we have denied them the right. they said, let's shut it down. over the past few days, a number of people, ard could go to the government, 140 people released. as they are coming out, they are coming out with horror stories of how they were treated inside. according to reformist websites, stories of starvation. somebody said they were hanging upside down for hours, perhaps the most awful thing that i heard was some detainees according to reformist's websites being forced to lick a

toilet. we have reports of people being killed in prisons. that's what is angering this opposition. >> it is the kind of thing we find out later about certain leaders, hitler. then, we say, was that even possible? it is so dehumanizing. >> that's why a lot of people, observers, were curious about today. would iran's leadership pull back on the security forces? would they let them protest? they didn't. they came back with the clubs and batons. >> this is the kind of thing that seems uncontrollable. we are so glad, reza, we have you watching it for us. >> we have a lot of help at the iran desk. a lot of people watching everything that's coming in. >> you guys are doing a fantastic job. we will see you again, hopefully, tomorrow. let's talk health care or maybe health scare. think about how i am playing with those two words. they rhyme and they make some political points. health scare in particular. are they true? like saying that this new plan or this new proposal for health

care is going to make you pay for other people's abortions. is that true? later, the effect on president obama from the cambridge comments that he made. donna brazile is going to join us to talk about this. at 4:00, rather than going off the air, we are just switching over to cnn.com/live. there, you can join me. we will continue the conversation. the aftershow. by the way, i am coming back in two minutes. stay right there. using a mifi, a mobile hotspot that provides up to five shared wifi connections. two are downloading the final final revised final presentation. - one just got an e-mail. - what?! - huh? - it's being revised again. the co-pilot is on mapquest. - ( rock music playing ) - and tom is streaming meeting psych-up music from meltedmetal.com. that's happening now with the new mifi from sprint, the mobile hotspot that fits in your pocket. sprint. the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. i had a great time. me too.

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i think i'll go with the basic package. good choice. only meineke lets you choose the brake service that's right for you. and save 50% on pads and shoes. meineke. welcome back. before we know it, our elected members of congress will cast votes on legislation to change our system of health care. you think it is a heated debate now. we ain't seen nothing yet. wait until the votes approach. in the meantime, i want you to keep a close eye on the commercials from both sides. they are going to be running all over the place. some already are. they are produced by folks who want to change the way that you think about this. not necessarily always dealing in truth but certainly with effective appeals to your

emotions. >> they won't pay for my surgery. what are we going to do? >> hon ey, you can't live this way. >> to think that planned parenthood is included in the government-run health care plan. and paying money on abortions. they won't pay for my surgery but we are forced to pay for abortions. >> call your senator. stop the government takeover of health care. >> the group that is running this spot wants you to think that seniors are going to be denied life-saving surgery, even as they pay for other people's abortions. is that language or anything like the language you saw on the commercial in the actual bills. we have seen, after looking into it, nope, no the at all. here is another one paid for by the republican national committee. >> the side effects include bureaucratic waste and delay.

not recommended if you like your own doctor, want to keep your own doctor or avoid the government prescribing your medical treatment. the government can deny your care based on patient age and the cost to taxpayers may very. you should not support president obama obama's reform if you are worried about the $1.6 billion cost or the $219 billion deficit. >> i know it goes fast and has a lot of numbers being thrown at you. we have watched it many, many times. there are as many as eight possible distortions in that 30-second spot. then, there is this, from the president himself. this is from something he said at last week's town hall meeting. i want you to watch it. i want to tell you something about it. this is something we can do. it is going to be paid for. it is not going to add to the deficit. it will control the deficit over

the long term. >> going to be paid for, mr. president? going to be paid for? what? it's going to be paid for by itself without adding to the deficit one penny. that's not what the budget folks are saying. there is a lot of information out there, a lot of misinformation. dualing senators coming your way on the opposite side of the aisle. they will try answering some of the questions from real people, right here, right now. stay with us. there is our group of real americans who deal with this every day and they each bring their own distinctive problems and questions. stay with us. (male announcer) if you've had a heart attack caused by a completely blocked artery, another heart attack could be lurking, waiting to strike. a heart attack caused by a clot, one that could be fatal. but plavix helps save lives. plavix, taken with other heart medicines goes beyond what other heart medicines do alone

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it is always good to see the plus sign in front of those numbers. we are trying to separate fact from fix, though, in this health care debate. this is important for all of us as americans. we have already shown you, i think you get it, on both sides of the aisle, from democrats and republicans, you are, from time to time, going to get no shortage of fix. so, to help us cut through some of this, from washington, senator john boroso. he is a republican from wyoming. we like him. also, democrat jared brown, junior se junior senator from ohio. i expect we will like him as well. here in atlanta, we have a panel of people just like you, people that have questions about what's going on in this country. i want to start with charity jordan. hi, charity. a recent graduate of georgia state university.

she currently works for a nonprofit venture. here is her problem. she says, look, the health care plan that's available to me where i work, it is not even worth joining financially. she is going to take us through that. mike sullivan is next to her. he is a majority owner of southeast ceiling incorporated. what he wants you to know is that the current health care system makes it a real burden for guys like him, small business owners, to try and cover their employees. i have got no idea where he is looking. the camera is right there. there you go. look at the camera in front of you. thanks, robert. also, puggy duncan is a personal productivity expert. there she is. she is paying a $5,000 deduct i believe because of a pre-existing condition. there we go with the pre-existing condition that gets many americans. there we have the setup. now, let's bring in our senators. first, senator john boroso. you there, sir? >> i am, rick.

thanks for having me. >> let's talk first about these ads. we have plenty of time. this ad that continues to suggest erroneously, mind you, that this proposal is essentially going to let old people die off or kill them, that's not fair, is it? >> well, what you want to see or what the next bill comes out, the health bill, the bill from the health committee, two weeks ago they passed it. today, all the republicans wrote to senator dodd and said, where is the bill and what's the cost of it. >> senator, hold on. going back to my question. you can't say that just because we don't know what the details are, we are going to make up some details and put them in a commercial scaring old people into thinking they are all going to die if they do this bill? that's not right, is it? >> that's not right. it is the health committee bill where barbara mccullsky's amendment has government and taxpayers paying for abortions. it is in that bill.

amendment passed but yet the bill hasn't been finalized in the sense of being printed. there are a number of different bills with different things in each of them. >> senator brown, let me bring you into this. senator brown of ohio, you there, sir? i got a different question or bone to pick with you as they say. why does the president continue to say that this proposal is going to pay for itself when you and i both know this thing is not going to pay for itself? it is going to cost us. of course, it is. >> well, let me start with this. about three weeks ago, former treasury secretaryophile, secretary treasury under bush said that there is a trillion dollars in our health care system, a trillion dollars that we are wasting, overspending. over time, we are going to be

able to get a lot of that cost out of the system. of course, it is going to cost more money initially. when the president says, paying for itself, he also included $600 billion in the budget. he is not saying the entire bill pays for itself. >> just to be fair so american people know, this will affect the deficit. it will affect the deficit, right? >> it affects the deficit except for that first $600 million that we built into the budget. the rest, we will find a way to pay for it. these people who are complaining about the deficit voted almost unanimously for a tax cut that put is hundreds of bills of dollars into dead and a war in 2002. they didn't care so much about the budget deficit. when it comes time to ensure people who aren't insured and help people who are underinsured and to provide consumer poe texs for people who have insurance, they are talking about deficits. >> how about that, senator

borrasso. senator brown just laid out the charge and said republicans weren't so interested in deficits when george bush was in office but now they are deficit hawks. >> i wasn't in the senate when those votes were cast. if you take a look at the total debt buildup from george washington to the end of george bush, add it all up, obama has exceeded those numbers. it is unsustainable. >> is that true? >> it is the number one thing on american's minds, the economy, the debt, the jobs, deficit. >> is that true? >> it is only true if you ignore the fact that -- if it was eight years of george bush that got us into this financial crisis where, yes, the pretreasury secretary paulson and geithner had to do all this bailout through the banks that we had no choice, if you want to count that, yeah, he has run up the

deficit. that is not really quite fair. >> i want to leave it at that. when we come back, real americans asking real questions of both of you about their particular situation. interestingly enough, we have chosen people who share a situation with many other americans. things like small business administrator who simply can't afford to pick up the debt of having to pay everybody else's insurance and vice versa. you will have this conversation with you, all six of us, when we come back. stay right there. ♪ that can strain your relationships and hurt your pride ♪ ♪ it's the credit roller coaster ♪ ♪ and as you can see it kinda bites! ♪ ♪ so sing the lyrics with me: ♪ when your debt goes up your score goes down ♪ ♪ when you pay a little off it goes the other way 'round ♪ ♪ it's just the same for everybody, every boy and girl ♪ ♪ the credit roller coaster makes you wanna hurl ♪ ♪ so throw your hands in the air, and wave 'em around ♪ ♪ like a wanna-be frat boy trying to get down ♪ ♪ then bring 'em right back to where your laptop's at... ♪ ♪ log on to free credit report dot com - stat! ♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage.

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welcome back. i want to start with you, mike. you can look at the camera when

i ask you this, though. you are a small business owner. what you want to say to these two senators who are listening to you now is what. describe for us what your plight is in trying to get by under the current system. go ahead. >> first of all, the present system that we have is broken and it has been broken for 20 years. for the past ten years, the cost of our health insurance at our small company, which employs 25 people has increased an average of 20% a year. the reason it is broken is because i have several friends that are doctors, cardiologists, rheumatologists, internists. in the same ten-year period, their income has gone down. now i know hospitals are not the cause of this problem. they are only getting by with 5% or 8% of profits.

that leaves three other folks involved. the pharmaceutical companies, the people that i pay to cover my health insurance thousands of dollars and the lawyers that are chasing ambulances. now, in washington. >> well, i want to stop you there, because i think what you have just done is leveled a charge. you are paying more and the doctors arpt making more and nobody else seems to be making more, then the only people who might be enriching themselves in all of this are the pharmaceuticals and the health care, hmos, et cetera. either one of you senators, before we go to break, can you tackle this? i hear that same opinion from a lot of americans. if these are the same people that in many cases pay you guys for your campaign. is that a problem? >> rick, mike also said, junk lawsuits. he also said the lawyers were getting rich off of this system where there is a lot of unnecessary tests that are ordered that don't help somebody get well, cost a lot of money to

patients but has doctors covering themselves to avoid getting sued. i think that, mike, i think that's what you said as well. is that right? >> that's fair. let me give senator sherod brown something on this. what about these big ceos that run these pharmaceutical firms and some of these health care provider systems, are they getting more than their share and are we getting screwed in the end? >> of course, they are. i was in the congress and the house when the medicare bill was passed. the medicare or prescription drug bill three or four years ago, it was a bill written by the drug companies and by the insurance companies for the drug companies and the insurance companies. this bill now is different. what we hope we can do in this bill is provide help for small businesses when there are only 25 employees. if he has one or two employees that need recommend aokayed or

one of these 20 or 30 or $50,000 a year buy logic drugs, it is going to blow his health insurance premiums through the roofs. that's why we are offering to go into the exchange to throw in with a much larger business pool. >> i have to stop you, because my producer is telling me, i have to hit a break. this conversation is going to continue. did you hear that, mr. sullivan. they are going to essentially be telling you that under the present system, some of the murder will be alleviated from you. you buy that, yes or no? >> no. >> we will be right back. stay with us. we will continue this conversation.

my three guests have heard this argument, right, that it is socialized medicine and that the government is unable, completely unable, to do anything right. so they are not going to be able to do a health care plan, at

least not do it well. senators, i am sure have made that same argument on the floor from time to time. listen to what happens on the daley show when the host takes on bill crystal with this same argument. let's watch it together. >> one of the ways we make it up since they are risking their lives, we give them first-time health care. >> so you just said that the public -- 90% of us. >> billy crystal just said that the government can run a first class health care system and that a government-run health care system is better than the private health care system? >> i don't think i don't know if it is better. >> su just said it was better. you said it was better. you said it is the best. it's a little more expensive but it's better. >> the military. >> so the government -- i just want to get this clear --

>> charity, if the government can run a good health care system for soldiers, and for these two senators, by the way, that we are talking to now and anybody else that works for the government, do you think they can run a good health care system for us? >> i absolutely think they can run a great health care system. my issue is, we have talk about money. they didn't say anything about health care and the people who need health care coverage, whether they are military personnel or not, or they work for a small business. they can't come into work if they are sick. i can't get health care if when i get to the doctor and they say, well, where is your insurance card? well, my small business owner didn't give me one. >> if you want to see how good health care is for the soldiers and ex soldiers, go over to claremont road and decay ter to the v.a. hospital and watches what's going on over there. >> peggy, do you think the government can run an effective health care system? >> i think if the government can take a letter from my house to

california in three days for 44 cents, i think they can run an efficient, effective health care system but they need to work on it. we all know that there are a lot of deficiencies, a lot of waste in government. i totally agree that if we address the in efficiencies, we can do this. >> senator barrasso, what do you make of this argument? >> number one, for charity, i am concerned for her. the programs that are going to be actually unfortunately wae weighted against young people. people in wyoming in my state are paying $66 a month, that's going to go to $300 and some. i just got back from kuwait, seeing our soldiers there. i have been to the hospitals overseas in the war zone. the v.a. system where i worked when i was in medical school is

not what i would consider the program for all americans. >> so you don't think the government is capable? >> they do a terrible job with the indian health care. the government runs it completely and they are not doing runs it completely and they're not doing a good job and our people are suffering. >> ten seconds, senator brown. do you think the government is able to do this? >> of course it can. look at medicare. medicare serves the american people really well. people are happy with medicare. there are some gaps because of the privatization attempts fiver years ago. the va medical system is strong. the community-based outreach clinics matter to people. i don't agree that the va system doesn't work well. >> all right. we have to leave it there. my thanks to both of you. a great conversation. we'll continue to do more of this, answer people's questions, bring in regular people like the rest of us, not that senators reason regular people, because i think both of you are and i've enjoyed it. a dlig to have you on. chuck nlg ting in the backgroun. i'm going to keep these three guys here and we'll continue on

cnn.com/live at 4:00 when the show ends. twitter, facebook, myspace can join us. your take on this, as well. by the way, stay with us. we're going to be talking about whether the president of the united states really stepped in it when he made the comment over the cambridge case. we're also going to be asking whether some very strong-minded critics of his are now actually helping him with what they're saying about him. what are they saying? if you haven't heard, you will soon. stay with us.

most of you appreciate that

we're opening this conversation up and talking about this tentative health care proposal. there's something else. i want to postulate something for you now. the people who are criticizing the president, those, for example, who are saying that he is a racist, are they criticizing and hurting the president personally but political politically they may be doing him a favor. think about that. politically, they may be doing him a favor. i'm going to pose that question to donna brazile, who's standing by right now. she's been looking at this situation in cambridge, like all of us have recently, and she joins me to talk about that. but with aleve, i don't have to worry about my knees hurting. only two aleve can stop pain all day. that would take three times as many tylenol arthritis pain. aleve works for me.

she is a cnn contributor. she's also a democratic strategist, favorite gal for a lot of folks around here. good enough to join us now. donna brazile, thanks for being with us. >> good afternoon, rick. good to hear your voice and see you safe again. >> listen, there's a police officer in boston who is calling professor gates a jungle monkey. there's a host on tv who says the president of the united states is a racist. and then you have this radio host who we've all heard

november the past saying that the president is an angry negro. given the fact that i think even the president would admit he probably shouldn't have used the word "stupidly," but he did, are some of these folks by piling on doing the president a favor politically? >> i don't believe that anyone wants to score political points over the controversy involving professor gates and sergeant crowley. this is a moment for people to take a step back, for cooler heads to prevail, to turn down the heat and the rhetoric, and to begin to sit, listen, and learn. that's how you make progress. that's how you make change in this country. for over 200 years, rick, we have seen race played out in this country. we had a civil war and a civil rights movement. but we also turned the page with a new chapter with the election of president obama. this is a moment for us to continue to make progress and to continue to build or rebuild trust between the minority communities and the police department. we have so much to do as a country, there's no place for

politics and race to be invoked at this time. >> because it's a conversation. once you call someone a racist, the conversation has ended and both camps go to their corners. correct? >> absolutely. but also it misses is point because we often cannot get to, you know, finding out what we all agree with. you know, i'll never forget during the aftermath of hurricane katrina, there were some who called former president george w. bush a racist, and i disagreed. i disagreed because i said, look, the policies and the practices of the not just the federal government, the state and local government, we could all criticize, but to call the president out i thought was wrong, morally wrong. and i wrote a column in "the washington post" that said i want to work with this president to, you know, rebuild my city, rebuild my hometown, because that was the important thing to consider. >> but i'm glad you mentioned that, because let's stick with new orleans, if we can. i think it's somewhat analogous

to this. why do americans in large measure look to the situation with katrina in new orleans and saw it as a bureaucratic screw-up? african-americans and hispanics looked at the very same situation and saw it as some kind of racist act. same situation, two different kinds of people looking at the same thing and coming out with two different conclusions. how is that possible? >> because we all come to the table with our own experiences and biases and prejudices. sometimes they're true and sometimes not. one good thing about president obama is he admitted to making the mistake and possibly aggravating the situation. and today, cooler heads would hopefully -- you know, something cool to drink will allow us to get past this incident but onto a new chapter we all want to have in this country. >> donna brazile, good enough to join us and talk about this. i should let you know as we near the end of the show we'll be throwing things over to wolf blitzer, who's going to be taking over from "the situation room." in the meae,