tv Campbell Brown CNN August 4, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT
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michelle's book, find your local listings for the lou dobbs show. go to loudobbs.com. and you can follow me on lou dobbs news on twitter.com, i hope you will. thanks for being with us tonight, we thank you for watching. good night from new york. next, campbell brown. tonight, here are the questions, we want answers. what deal did bill clinton make with north korea to free two american journalists held captive for nearly five months. is he the diplomatic rock star who will be sent to hot spots around the world? plus, what secrets is the secret service keeping? a new book makes startling allegations. and my exclusive one-on-one with "the view's" whoopi goldberg. >> this is a different kind of president. this is like a guy, this is like a regular dude. >> whoopi on sarah palin.
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>> she's much smarter than she let on and it irritated me. >> this pilot flew drunk, are drunk pilots still in the cockpit putting passengers at risk? and president obama's birthday surprise. hi, everybody, those are our big questions tonight. but we start as we always do with the mash-up. it is our look at all the stories making an impact. right now the moments you may have missed today. we're watching it all so you don't have to. and the mash-up starting with breaking news. word just in from the office of bill clinton, the former president has safely left north korea tonight traveling with him, rescued journalists euna lee and laura ling, flying to los angeles where the women will be reunited with their families tomorrow morning. an extraordinary end to an extraordinary day.
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>> an american president making a surprise trip to communist north korea. but it wasn't barack obama, it was bill clinton, the 42nd president whose wife is normally the top diplomat in the family was on a private mission to win the release of two american journalists and he did. >> bill clinton was granted an audience with kim jong il, the leader rarely seen since a debilitating stroke last year. to make his appeal for the release of the women. >> pictures of kim jong il side by side with president clinton, meetings with mr. clinton and a vip state dinner. but the white house insisted today this was not an official visit. >> after he met with north korea's kim jong il, the women were pardoned. >> this actually has been in the works for quite a while. a few weeks, but the person that the north koreans really wanted and invited ultimately was bill clinton and that was a decision by the white house. >> they would not have sent him
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if they did not think it was going to work. a high level envoy once, but not twice, and when you send that person, it has to work. >> and our sacramento affiliate kcra caught up with laura ling's father a few moments ago. >> did you ever give up hope? >> no, i never did. i figured sooner or later they'll be back. >> reporter: they were not going to spend 12 years? >> no, no, because i've seen enough of these -- just like the young lady in iran. she was sentenced to 7 years and they released her within a couple of weeks, i think. >> reporter: well, congratulations, sir. >> thank you, thank you, thank you very much. >> and no comment yet, we should mention from the white house. knowing off the cuff comments can doom any sort of delicate negotiation the administration's very tight-lipped today and very much on message. >> at this point i don't have
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anything further, i don't have anything for you beyond what the white house has said. we don't have anything to add. nothing to add. nothing to add. nothing further on it. i don't have any comment. as i said, no comment. you might want to save your questions. >> i don't have anything more to add on this. i'm not going to get deep into this issue at this point, not going to get into this at this point, we weren't going to comment on and hopeful at a later point we can have a more fulsome conversation. >> wanting to make sure they were home safely first, we're going to have much more tonight on this developing story. in pakistan tonight, some alarming news of young boys trained for terror. this is an exclusive story from cnn's stan grant. >> reporter: look into the eyes of these boys. pakistan's military says these are the lost souls of the taliban's terror. the boys told me they were stolen from their families, abused, beaten, and brainwashed by the taliban. in militant camps, they say they were being trained to be suicide bombers.
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to do the taliban's killing. >> would you kill for god? yes, he says. in the right circumstances or the wrong circumstances, would they kill? >> two of them wouldn't even feel it. >> reporter: they would kill them, they wouldn't feel it? >> they probably wouldn't have an empathetic response. >> reporter: they've been so badly damaged by this experience, it's difficult to know exactly how they are feeling. the doctors say some are psychotic, some psychopathic, and some pose a very real risk. >> the youngest of those boys only 13 years old. here at home, a growing debate over those increasingly out of control town meetings. all over tv today, democratic lawmakers getting shouted down in their districts. here's the very latest. >> green bay, wisconsin, last night democratic congressman and
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doctor steve kaigen called a meeting to discuss the crucial issue of health care reform since he's a doctor and a politician, he wanted to meet with his constituents. here's what happens. >> so, the big question tonight, are the protests a true sign of public anger or the creation of a vast right-wing conspiracy? well, that depends on who you ask. >> this is not grass roots pitch fork waving folks, this is a coordinated campaign by the republican party and the insurance industry. i know we're going to these street gatherings and they're not community organized, these are regular folks that have never got their butt off their couch until now.
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they're involved, they're informed. i think you have seen, they have bragged about manufacturing to some degree, that anger. >> american people have a great concern about what's going on, we're trying to express that concern, that is our right as americans. >> it was clear that this is a nationally driven campaign. >> well, one thing beyond dispute here, real or not, these protests making it awful hard for democrats to get the message out right now. another unbelievable story about rage, this time definitely not manufactured. check this out. >> you know what they say about a woman scorned? well, what happens when there are three of them. >> a married man took one of his girlfriends to a motel, listen to what happened. court documents alleged her sister, another girlfriend, and his wife were waiting for him.
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>> they bound him, gagged him -- it gets better, they glued his [ muted ]. his member, his penis to his stomach. >> he got free, apparently, by chewing through his bindings. the women were arrested. >> the one wasn't even involved she came along for the ride. >> she was watching the door. >> okay, ladies. you saw whoopi goldberg right there, she's my guest tonight, we're going to talk to her about president obama, sarah palin, a whole lot more in a little bit. but first, tonight's guilty pleasure, reality show phenomenon "jon & kate plus 8" back on the air last night. six weeks after the couple announced their separation, more than 4 million people tuned in to watch. here's the hour in a minute. >> kind of strange, you know, we're remodelling our kitchen in
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the middle of our separation and stuff like that. it landed at a good time that kate could take the kids to the beach, i could oversee the construction, gave us a break to think about what we needed to do as parents for our kids. >> it is my new attitude that i'm going to do things i have never done before. if i've never grilled before, i'm going to grill. if i've never camped before, i'm going to camp. it might take me a while, but i can figure it out. >> we're tracked 24/7 by the paparazzi and the reporters so, you know, it's a shame that kate and the kids had to sneak out at 4:00 in the morning, get on the bus and go down to the beach. it didn't work anyway, they found them at the beach. >> we had about 3 to 5 paparazzi who stuck around outside of our house just like they did at home. what do you do? i'm living my life and if they have to be there and take pictures, great, but i'm not going to keep my kids inside and stifle their existence. >> tlc has ordered up 40 more
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episodes of this stuff. and that brings us to our punch line tonight. courtesy of conan o'brien who takes a little shot at a political word smith. >> the man who wrote many of the speeches for president george w. bush is now working on his memoirs. true story, no. the book will be called "me do bad job." >> conan o'brien, everybody, and that is the mash-up. breaking news tonight, though, we're going back to it, bill clinton wheels up from north korea with two american journalists just released from captivity. there a big victory for the u.s. but is the former president upstaging his wife? plus, my exclusive interview with the one and only whoopi goldberg, we're going to talk politics including her take on sarah palin, president obama, and her own co-host elizabeth hasselbeck. >> i'll tell you what elizabeth has done for me.
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she has made me realize that i have to listen as well as talk. and sometimes she will say something that makes absolute sense to me and i know i'm getting better because i heard it, you know what i mean? some people buy a car based on the deal they get. others buy the car of their dreams. during the lexus golden opportunity sales event, you can do both. it's an opportunity today. it's a lexus forever. special lease offers now available on the 2009 is 250.
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i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day women's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration... plus support for bone and breast health. just what i need. one a day women's. our breaking news tonight, president clinton has safely left north korea with freed u.s. journalist laura ling and euna
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lee, plane now headed for los angeles. mission accomplished after clinton swooped in for an unannounced meeting for kim jong il who then issued a special pardon clearing the way for the journalists' immediate release. a major pr victory for the white house and for clinton who was at sharp odds with barack obama during last year's democratic primaries. after word of the pardons late today, we spoke with new mexico governor bill richardson, a one time u.s. ambassador to the u.n. who has traveled to north korea many times to negotiate freedom for other americans held there. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much for having me. >> let me first ask you about the families, because i know you've been in touch with lisaling who is, of course, laura's sister. i cannot imagine how relieved they've got to be feeling today, what did she tell you? >> well, it's a huge relief. i talked to lisa earlier.
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these two women journalists have been in captivity for almost five months. even though they're treated pretty reasonable, they were in a guest house. they were properly fed, allowed to call home. the swedish ambassador who represents us was able to visit us. it's still enormous strain on the two women because they were actually sentenced eight to ten years of hard labor. they didn't know what was happening. when you're in thort korea, you have a sense of isolation. you don't know what is happening because they don't tell you much. that this ordeal for this family is going to end soon because the two women have had some physical problems, not serious, but hopefully able to come home and they'll be fine. >> what kind of physical problems are they okay? >> well, they're okay, yeah. but there's a lot of mental
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strain, and it's very difficult at north korea because you're isolated, no one talks to you. >> let's talk about how this came about. what president clinton was able to do. you probably have as much familiarity as anyone. explain to us most likely how this all came about. >> what i suspect happened and i'm not speaking for the administration, although they asked for my advice, is it the north koreans wanted a high level envoy to come and bill clinton is the price. and kim jong il, the leader, wanted to make a big splash domestically at home. there's some question about who's going to succeed him, he wanted to show his constituency that he could deliver a former president, and so i am sure that the north koreans said if you send bill clinton, maybe something's going to happen.
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i'm not sure of that, but i suspect something like this happened. >> what do you think this could mean in terms of u.s. relations with north korea? could this mark a breakthrough of sorts? >> the fact that we are talking directly with them for the first time, even though it's an intermediary, not a member of the government, but it is former president clinton, could really help a cooling off period. in a very tense relationship. and what it might lead to is perhaps president clinton and kim jong il talked about resuming a dialogue. we haven't had a dialogue. talking among our diplomats directly. or doing it through the six-party talks, which has been the negotiating venue in the past, which the north koreans hate. so it could be a little bit of a breakthrough. >> governor bill richardson for us tonight, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and let's bring in senior political correspondent candy crowley in washington who has been covering this from washington and with us from
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honolulu also victor cha, director of asian affairs under president george w. bush, now at georgetown university. candy, let me start with you on this. bill clinton gets his glory, he's now on his way home with the two journalists, but as you point out, this is really hillary clinton's triumph in many ways. >> well, certainly partially her triumph, before bill clinton got on that plane, the deal was set. this was cooked before he got on the plane to go over there. and as governor richardson pointed out, clearly what north korea wanted was a high profile, non-official official because this administration wasn't going to send someone official over there, though many people had volunteered. so what you had was weeks and weeks of trying to work this out. it began with hillary clinton beginning to walk back what before she had said that the charges against these two women were baseless and then it became, well, the families are very sorry for what happened,
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we're very sorry, we know there's a way to work this out. there's been this gradual work of diplomacy both in the state department and at the white house. bill clinton was the final piece of that. he is the one that went to north korea, that gave them those photo ops, this is a country that very much wants to be a player and have him come, this is a man at this point who is a senior statesman from the u.s. but he has the obama -- what they wanted, which was not to be a member of the obama administration, so he fit both those bills. and i think that his part was the final part, but weeks and weeks before that, it was the administration working on this. >> right. and victor, the bottom line here is these two young women are coming home. but there has been some criticism that sending a person in bill clinton's stature rewards them for bad behavior and you've negotiated with the north koreans, how are they seeing this? >> well, i think, yeah, i think you will hear some criticisms
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from conservative circles about rewarding bad behavior, allowing the north to use an event like this for a propaganda victory. but we saw how the north korean news agency immediately announced that president clinton conveyed a message from president obama and then the white house coming out and saying that was not the case. but in the end, while this may be a propaganda victory for the north, as candy said, the price was basically that you get these two americans back. and that makes it all worth it, in my opinion. >> indeed. and candy, this is a little bit cloak and dagger, i guess. it's just that we so rarely get an opportunity to see kim jong il even. and there have been so many rumors about his health, who will take over for him, so little information. and what bill clinton can do in addition to being able to bring these journalists home is provide probably some of the best intelligence the u.s. has had about what's happening there in quite some time. is that fair? >> sure, i think that's fair. because he has spent some time,
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not just with kim jong il, but also with those around him. so he, you know, you pick up things. and former president clinton is very, very smart. he understands how this works. he's also a good diplomat, and i can't imagine or can't imagine he's going to be debriefed. they're going to ask if he appears sick, is there anyone around him that seems to have more power than anybody else? i think he can be rather than come back and say, hey, they want to restart the six-party talks or this or that, i think it'll be much less specific than that. i think it will be just the feel. what is this leader, how is he looking. what's your sense of things? i think that can be valuable, you need to know what you're dealing with. >> victor, obviously a very different approach from the bush administration. which, you know, you served under. still we talked about there is obviously a short-term win in the fact that the journalists
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are home, but are there longer term perils here for sort of where this may ultimately take the obama administration? >> well, i think this action itself fit very well with the campaign policies of when obama's running for president as well as the initial statements that the administration made when they first came into office about the willingness to go with higher level negotiations, to try to move the process that we worked on in the bush administration forward even more quickly. they then got hit with all of these north korean provocations and backed away from that a little bit. in the longer term, while this is an issue related to the humanitarian problem, it does, as candy says, lower the temperature a little bit and perhaps provide an opportunity for the actual negotiators to reengage on the nuclear issue. in that sense, president clinton's trip helps the north koreans pull themselves off the ledge, which they always put
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themselves on with these provocations. >> all right. victor tonight, as well candy crowley from washington. thanks very much, guys. imagine being a passenger on board a jet where the pilot was so drunk he was yanked from the cockpit. i'm going to talk with the pilot who got caught, he went to prison for it and he says it is still happening. plus, secrets of the secret service. is the president as safe as we think he is. a new book had startling charges that may surprise you when we come back. tom. now, i know the catering business but when i walked in here i wasn't sure what i needed. i'm not sure what i need. tom showed me how to use mifi to get my whole team working online, on location. i was like, "woah". woah ! only verizon wireless has small business specialists in every store to help you do business better. you're like my secret ingredient. come in today and connect up to five devices on one 3g connection. now only $99.99
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show a new york mother was drunk and high on marijuana when she drove the wrong way on a highway north of new york city last week. she was among the dead in the head-on crash that killed four young children and three other adults. the children included her own children as well as some nieces. tests show her alcohol level was 0.19, more than twice the legal limit. in louisville, kentucky, swamped today by flash flooding. heavy thunderstorms dropping 6 inches of rain in three hours. cars are submerged, the university of louisville's campus had to shut down. the racetrack evacuated to higher ground and people had to be rescued by boat. talk about a mess there. the u.s. marine corps is banning the use of military computers to visit facebook, twitter, and myspace because of concerns over security. marines can still use those social networking sites on their personal computers, but they don't want to expose the military's computer networks to hackers. pentagon officials are looking at a uniform policy that would
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apply, campbell, to all branchs of the military. >> all right, erica, and we'll be seeing you back at the end of the show later. and when we come back, the always outspoken, the sometimes politically incorrect whoopi goldberg, she sat down with me for an exclusive interview today. i asked her if as the first black president barack obama has to sometimes bite his tongue when it comes to certain issues. >> you know, i don't think he so much has to bite his tongue, but he has to recognize that people are not used to the president sounding like their next door neighbor. to stay on top of my game after 50, i switched to a complete multivitamin with more. only one a day men's 50+ advantage... has gingko for memory and concentration. plus support for heart health. that's a great call. one a day men's. get advil® liqui-gels. they're faster and stronger on tough pain... than tylenol® rapid release gels®. advil® liqui-gels rush real liquid relief...
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tony winner for an exclusive interview and i asked her how she thinks president obama is doing so far. >> with what he came in with, he's doing fine. because i don't know how many people would've actually been able to try to keep juggling it. when i think about what he's doing, you know, a lot of people are very upset about his health care policy. and he keeps saying well he keeps saying we've got to do something, but what are we -- but the truth of the matter is, we do have to do something. we have to figure out how many people need it, you know, how many people we give it to who are not here legally. we have to take that number, put it over here, and then look at the number of americans who actually need it. like i don't need a new policy because i have great health care. i have fantastic health care, so there's a section of the population that also goes over here.
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those folks who are left who don't have anything who end up going to the emergency room because their kid is sick and they don't have the money, the people who wait until they get really sick to go to the doctor because they can't afford it, those are the people we need to really say, okay, this is the first focus we're going to take care of. these are the people we're going to help first and foremost, the rest of you guys can kiss, but this is what we have to do first. >> as the first black president, do you think he has to bite his tongue sometimes when it comes to what he had can say about certain issues. as we sort of saw play out with the arrest of professor gates. you laugh. >> i do laugh because i just -- what i -- what everyone is starting to realize is that we do have cultural differences. and we do respond to things in different ways. now, most of us if our friend,
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if we had half of the information, which normally most of us have anyway, and you heard that your friend got roughed up by the police you would say, you know, that guy's a bone head, man. he's a bone head and then you get the facts and you go, oh, well, you maybe should've done it a little bit different. you know, i don't think he so much has to bite his tongue, but he has to recognize that people are not used to the president sounding like their next door neighbor. and i think the people we have to recognize that this is a different kind of president. because this is like a guy, this is like a regular dude. >> why, why is this a different kind of president? is it because he's a black president? is it because he's of a different generation? what is it? >> i think it's generational. >> more than anything else? >> i hate saying it too. i hate saying it, but i think it is generational. i also think it has to do with the fact that his, you know, sonia sotomayor got in big
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trouble by saying, you know, my culture gives me a different perspective, well, the same is true even though there are some people out there still saying he was born some place somewhere else pretty much, you know, he's the american president but he's had different experiences and i think this is the kind of the first time probably since lincoln that we've had a president who actually grew up not in a large family that is -- that has a lot of political background. >> right. >> that -- >> he was never groomed to be president. >> no, nobody was -- everybody was going, yeah, right, okay. but i think he has a different take. and so, yeah. part of the thing that everybody's got to get used to is that, yeah, he is black and he has some different ideas about things because he comes from a different place. and while some folks will say, well, he should've done this or should've done that, the truth of the matter is, you know, this is my hope anyway for this president, that this is a guy
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who will say in two or three years, you know what? i changed my mind about this, i don't feel the same way i felt last year about this. because now i've seen more and i'm feeling like this. i think people are not used to presidents who are more likely to sound like you and i. >> right. >> or more likely to recognize the same things that you and i recognized as being whatever. he is not -- he's not your grandfather's president, that's the way to put it. >> more from whoopi goldberg, she lets loose on sarah palin. listen. >> what bothered me about sarah palin is i thought she was pretending to be dumb and i didn't like it.
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goldberg over the past year, you might not expect her to call sarah palin smart. well, that's exactly what she said when we talked earlier today. of course, there was a catch. here's whoopi on palin. >> let me ask you about the other probably most talked about politician of last year. sarah palin. what is it about her that gets people so riled up? >> i think what -- it depends on who you're talking to. some people, i think, are riled up because they feel that maybe people -- it's condescending, you know, if you're going to grab a woman to put out there, is this the right woman for your party? is this the woman you want representing you? is this how you want to be represented? especially if you're saying this is an all inclusive party. this party's supposed to include everybody. so is there a better person to get out there with a little more
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to her? some don't like -- she's really cute, she's really cute. >> how much do you think looks played into it? >> oh -- >> the strong reaction people had to her. >> oh, my god, all you have to do is listen to some of the -- >> commentary. >> and you could hear the thuds under the table. come on. you know. i mean there are a lot of things that play into what bothers people about sarah palin, what bothered me about sarah palin is i thought she was pretending to be dumb and i didn't like it. >> you thought she was pretending to be dumb? >> yes, i thought she was pretending, thought she was trying to pull off i'm just a regular old person. and maybe you are, but you don't get to be governor by -- >> by being -- >> by not knowing your geography, your not knowing how to communicate with people, and certainly not putting people
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down for being somewhat different. because, you know, if you talk to the community, there's a whole different community. i love alaska, i think it's one of the greatest states in the world, you know. but i think she was much smarter than she let on and it irritated the hell out of me. >> why do you think she felt the need to, you know, have that persona? >> well, maybe that's what they told her she was supposed to be. because, listen, on monday, john mccain did not have a running mate, on tuesday, he had this woman. and it was a gorgeous woman, like, okay. well, what do you have to say? because you better be as smart as the other women in this race. you better as smart and as on top of it. it bothered me that she didn't -- that she didn't put what i thought was her best foot forward. >> elizabeth hasselbeck, of course, one of your co-hosts, a
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huge fan of sarah palin. >> yes. >> you and elizabeth have very different points of views. >> sometimes, not all the time. >> i was going to ask you. she's very conservative, has she ever convinced you, brought you around on an issue that the two of you have debate snd. >> i don't know if she's brought me around. but i'll tell you what elizabeth has done for me. she has made me realize that i have to listen as well as talk. and sometimes she will say something that makes absolute sense to me, and i know i'm getting better because i heard it, you know what i mean? >> yeah. >> i can hear her, and i think we've had that effect on each other. sometimes we still get passionate. but the great thing about "the view" and particularly with she and i and really with all of us, is that it's not personal. you know what i mean? it's like you're sitting with your sister and your brother and your aunt, your crazy aunt in the corner. >> which one is the crazy aunt in the corner?
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>> and somebody says something, your crazy aunt says something and you go, are you out of your mind? you don't mean are you out of your mind you're an idiot. but it's family talk. >> yeah. >> and so what we do is we get together and we family talk and sometimes we don't agree and sometimes it's absolutely you're never going to change my mind, you know, but let's talk about the newest pasties they have, you know. it's a very odd dynamic. >> it works. >> but sex and politics seem to go together no matter how you put them. we're going to have more with whoopi tomorrow night. but first pictures we want to show you right now. live pictures i believe you're looking at. this is tape, sorry, not live pictures, but this is tape and these are the pictures of them departing, president clinton and the two young women departing from north korea, you can see the pictures there of laura ling, euna lee, here are the two
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young women boarding the plane with president clinton, i believe that's the president's aide on their way back to los angeles where they will be arriving, we're told tomorrow morning to be reunited with their families. a huge relief as you can imagine for their families. as they will be seeing two young women tomorrow morning. again, boarding a plane there in north korea. you're watching this with us, this is feeding in right now, we're going to have a whole lot more on this tomorrow night, obviously we expect to hear from the families tomorrow, a few words from laura ling's father this evening. much, much relief after this big diplomatic victory for president clinton, for the obama administration. we'll be back right after this break. but we can't predict our shipping costs. dallas. detroit. different rates. well with us, it's the same flat rate. same flat rate. boston. boise? same flat rate. alabama. alaska? with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service.
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some breaking news to share with you right now. you're looking at pictures we are just getting in now of the two young women, laura ling and euna lee leaving north korea, they are boarding the plane there with president clinton's aide, you can see walking just in front of them, president clinton having boarded the plane just before the two young women. they are on their way now home
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to los angeles where they will be greeting their families tomorrow morning. this is, of course, come after there's president clinton there, you can see in the doorway of the aircraft as the two young women board. and this has come after a long diplomatic effort that has been underway for months, we should mention this is the first time we're seeing these pictures of these young women since march since they were initially taken into custody there in north korea. we received a statement a short time ago from former vice president al gore who said "we want to thank the obama administration for the continuous and determined efforts to achieve this outcome and president clinton for his willingness to undertake this mission." the girls, of course, worked for current media for al gore's operation. all of us at current are overjoyed at their safe return. our hearts go out to them and their families for persevering through this horrifying experience. the family releasing a brief
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statement saying they are counting the seconds until they hold laura and euna in their arms. again, they are expected to arrive in los angeles tomorrow morning. we will have all of the details for you right back here tomorrow night. and we want to shift gears now and tell you about another story that's getting a lot of attention, almost nothing is bigger than the story of an assassination attempt on a u.s. president, yet my next guest says there are many more threats than most people ever hear about. so how does the secret service protect the president and his family while keeping their secrets? that is the question tonight we have for ron kessler, the author of "in the president's secret service," a new book out, very hot book that has a lot of buzz surrounding it. it's good to have you here. >> good to be here. >> let me ask that question we just teased there, the secret service are privy to a lot of secrets. we're going to get to that in a second, but the top priority is preventing an assassination attempt. as you write, there's way many
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more attempts than we realize, especially when it comes to this president, to president obama. >> threats against this president has increased 400% as compared with when bush was president. when bush was president, there were about 3,000 a year, now it's about 12,000 a year. of course, a lot of them are not credible, but you know, it is a factor of his race, unfortunately. but at the same time, the secret service has been cutting corners ever since it was acquired by the department of homeland security. >> and this is what the agents are telling you? >> yeah, agents are telling me and the fact they've admitted on the record, interviewed the head of protection at the secret service, they did cooperate, nicholas and admitted yes, they have not been doing metal detection in a lot of events, at first he said it's wonderful that we use metal detectors, this is the way we stop assassinations, but then when i said what about the instances when you don't? he started defending that
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saying, well, maybe it's a fair way from the president. well, anybody can run up to a crowd and, you know, with weapons or with grenades, commit an assassination. before dhs acquired secret service, they would never have done that, i have on the record secret service agents up to the level of deputy director in those days saying we were never under pressure from staffs to stop metal detection because there were strag lers. in the case of joe biden throwing out the first pitch at the orieoles game last april, they did no metal detection whatsoever. agents cam me and said this is risking an assassination. you know, and what is more important than protecting the life of a president in a democracy? if you don't have -- if you have an assassination, you don't have democracy. >> let me ask you about some of
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the other nuggets that you share in the book. one of them being that president obama still smoking on a pretty regular basis. even though he claims that it's more of a very rarely kind of slip up on his part. >> you know, the book is partly about how the secret service does its job, but also what they see behind the scenes because they're like human surveillance cameras, and one thing i've seen is that obama does continue to smoke on a regular basis. >> where does he smoke? how does he smoke? >> he can do it on the balcony, limousine, hotel room, there are a number of places where he does smoke. but at the same time, they say that he treats agents very well with great respect, which is quite different from someone like jimmy carter who was -- would actually tell agents he didn't want them to say hello to them in the morning, it was too much bother for him to say hello to them. he would pretend to carry his
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own luggage, but it was empty, or else he would have aides carry after the he would come into the oval office at 5:00 in the morning and tell the press i was in there working hard at 5:00 in the morning and then he would nod off to sleep. jenna and barbara bush gave their detail a hard time, especially jenna, go through red lights trying to evade the secret service. and she went to a halloween party with henry hager who is now her husband, he became so drunk that the secret service had to take him to georgetown university hospital. so, on the other side, you have ronald reagan who was, you know, very endearing figure, loved the secret service, chatted with them, watched tv with them, laura bush, of course, and we also have -- >> chelsea clinton also you write about. >> they were the model first child. she was -- >> can't be easy with children, especially. >> that's right. it's rough for everybody.
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but she was very obedient respectful, treated the agents very well. there are also turns out affairs of some people have. a champion in family values was having several affairs according to the agents who actually would take him to hotel rooms. and john snow who was bush's treasury secretary, the agents describe taking him to richmond every weekend where his wife lived but also this woman they describe as his mistress. >> all right, well, we'll certainly i'm sure be hearing much more about all of this. quite a number of pretty startling allegations in this book. ron kessler, appreciate your time tonight. thanks very much. >> thank you, campbell. next up, flying while drunk. it happens much more than you may think. in a minute, we're going to talk to a pilot who went to prison for flying a passenger plane under the influence when we come back. taking its rightful place
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in 1990, a northwest airlines crew got so drunk in the hours leading up to the flight, they were pulled from the airplane, fired and each spent time in prison. now a member of that crew has written an extraordinary book about what happened and about his own struggles with alcoholism. it's called "flying drunk." so you spent a year in prison after you were caught flying drunk, tell us about the incident, what happened? >> well, i was basically trying to quit drinking on my own for a year prior to the northwest incident. and i had a blackout out in los angeles on a layover with eastern airlines, i told my best friend at that time that i wanted to stop drinking, that for some reason i couldn't drink like other people, so i basically white knuckled it for a year. but this was a five-day trip, this particular incident that occurred in march of 1990, i was -- went out on the last night of a trip, tried to work
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some things out with one of the crew members and we all decided to get together and try some things and talk about some things and the whole thing ended up backfiring. >> so you got on that plane and you were intoxicated. >> yes, i was convicted of actually flying under the influence of alcohol. if you have a blood alcohol content of over .04 under the federal aviation regulations, you are -- you don't have any business being on an airplane for sure. >> and you mention these other incidents, i mean, this wasn't a one-time thing for you. you had done this before, gotten on a plane, flew a plane drunk. >> yeah, this is true. after i was sober for three years, i started to get a lot more clarity on things that occurred in the past, which is common for people who are alcoholic and stop drinking. and what i realized was there were some times that eastern airlines where i had gone out the night before the flight and ended up having way too much to drink and that's the problem.
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i can't predict how much i'm going to drink when i do or don't drink and that's one of the indicators of early stage alcoholism. >> i know, not to -- i just want to stress this, i think, for a lot of us watching, you know, it's not about you. it's about the other people whose lives you put at risk. i've got to ask you what you were thinking. >> i can't defend what occurred. you know, i embarrassed my company, embarrassed my fr profession and my licenses were revoked from the faa. and i spent five years in the system, a year on bond, one year in federal prison, some of that was behind a 30-foot wall at the penitentiary. it was very, very hard, difficult time. and i've paid my debt to society. today i'm part of the solution rather than part of the problem. >> do you believe today that there are other pilots out there who are flying drunk? >> well, i was approached just this past week, i launched my book. and there's always people that approach me and want to tell me their stories.
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there are people in every profession that come to work and have had too much to drink the night before. >> yeah. you're flying again. you're a pilot now for american airlines. and i know they're going to be some people who say i don't know if i'd want my pilot to be the author of a book called "flying drunk." should you have gotten your job back? >> well, i think that we're a lot better off if we're helping people who suffer from a disease. it's 100% fatal disease, and if people don't stop drinking, they end up dead. the fact that so many pilots have been rehabilitated is a wonderful sign. let me reference prior to 1972, there was a rule where pilots were caught or diagnosed as alcoholic, they lost their career forever. >> that was pilot joseph, author of "flying drunk" and "larry king live" is coming up next.
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