join me on the radio monday through fridays for the lou dobbs show. go to loudobbs.com to get the local listings in your area. and you can follow me on lou dobbs news on twitter.com. please. we thank you for being with us. good night from new york. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, hear the questions we want answered. what is going on at these town halls? voter rage fueling out of control free for alls. members of congress getting death threats. the president compared to hitler. all because of health care? plus, the suburban mother who killed her daughter, three nieces and three other men in a car accident. what really happened? police say she had ten shots of vodka and marijuana in her system but her husband says they've got it all wrong. >> i go to bed every night

knowing my heart is clear. she did not drink. she's not an alcoholic. she's not an alcoholic. >> tonight the story behind the tragedy. and the manson family killers, should any of them go free? >> granted, i have committed one of the most heinous crimes in the history of man kind and i realize that. i'm remorseful for that. i would give anything if i could pay for it. >> i'll talk to the man who put them behind bars. plus the picture you just have to see. hillary clinton gets down in kenya. hi, everybody. those are our big questions tonight. we're going to start as we always do with the "mashup," our look at the stories making an impact right now. moments you may have missed today. we're watching it all so you don't have to. top story tonight. significant news on the one

economic indicator people seem to care about and that is jobs, jobs, jobs. >> an unexpected dose of good news today about the economy suggesting the recession may be easing. the nation's unemployment rate dips 1.0%. >> the number is out. on the surface it's grim. 247,000 americans lost their jobs in july. experts were bracing for much worse. that's the smallest number of job losses this country has seen in a year. >> 34-year-old jason polls who lost his job as a bank sales manager a year ago is already feeling better. so when do you start this job? >> monday. >> monday? >> yes. >> he got a new job in banking, though it comes with a $50,000 pay cut. >> in its latest survey of job postings on the internet, monster.com is beginning to see a turn in some industries. retail. the energy sector and transportation all showed small growth last month along with

government hiring. >> all of this a bit of a boost for the white house. the president and his aides taking a mini victory lap but a cautious one and very much on message. >> we received additional signs the worst may be behind us. >> i would describe today's report as the least bad report that we've had in a year. >> the way i've been describing this is it's the least bad day we've had in a while. >> wall street also experiencing its least bad day of the year. stocks rally leading one economist to tell "the new york times," quote, the recession is dead. long live the recovery. major news out of pakistan. reports of an american air strike that has killed the country's top taliban leader. >> they think he got him. u.s. officials increasingly confident a top taliban chief was killed by a u.s. missile strike in pakistan. this terror rap sheet is a long one. the death of baitullah mehsud would have a significant impact

for pakistan and war in afghanistan. >> he was sleeping on the roof of a house. actually staying with his father-in-law recovering. baitullah was known to have diabetes and kidney problems and actually had an i.v. in his system and was getting some medical treatment at around 1:00 at night when this drone attack took place. >> pakistani huge intelligence, intelligence on the ground that helped guide that missile in. told from u.s. officials with access from the latest intelligence they have the signature. they knew baitullah mehsud was in the house and seven of his bodyguards are reported dead. >> mehsud long considered the mastermind behind the killing of benazir bhutto. disturbing glimpse into the man of george sodini. the man whose shooting spree left three women dead. >> reporter: sodini talked about

what he wanted -- >> my objective was to be real and learn to be emotional and emotionally connect with people. >> reporter: he admitted on any given day he hid from his emotions. >> there you go. one more day. one more day turns into one more year. >> reporter: in the video tour in his house, this book "how to date young women for men over 35." the author gives blunt advice to men on how to pick up women. >> it's normal to be scared when you have been hurt by women in the past. >> reporter: at this seminar, see steele telling men to be tough. >> each guy must die. i would say that's a problem with most of the guys in the room, that you're too nice. >> reporter: sitting in attention, george sodini. see sodini in a pretend exercise on meeting women. >> sodini's own blog revealing he planned his killing spree for months. we go from the tragic to the

inspiring. soldier dana bowman last both legs in a skif diving accident 15 years ago. today, bowman jumped into the sky once again. a message of hope to his fellow vets. watch this. >> what an amazing sight this is. it's beautiful. waiting to get -- yeah, let's just watch. >> wow. >> there he is. dana bowman just landed here. how did it feel coming down here? >> awesome. coming into walter reed for organizational day for the army, they took great care of me like they're doing for our soldiers today. >> bowman, himself, did his rehab at walter reed. jen genxers remembering the man -- >> 59-year-old john hughes,

director of films like "16 candles." >> he set such a standard for what high school was going to be like. when i was watching those movies at 10 years old. when i got to high school i was like, this is it? >> you remember "the breakfast club." ♪ don't you forget about me >> what was your favorite movie? >> bueller. >> bueller. >> bueller. >> bueller. >> bueller. >> bueller. >> "bueller's day off" was the best movie in the '80s. no doubt. ♪ >> and hewho's not a ferris bueller person? moving on to the punch line, courtesy of jimmy fallon, still having one with bill clinton's rescue tour to north korea. >> you heard it was an amazing story he brought back the two

journalists. north korea, it turns out they were offered a meeting with al gore with exchange for the journalists but kim jong-il wanted to meet with bill clinton instead. al gore said i have no problem at all, then he gained 70 pounds and grew a beard. >> jimmy fallon, everybody. tonight's "newsmaker." jermaine jackson. we have the interview. sarah palin weigh in on the health care reform controversy. she's calling obama's plan, what congress is doing, quote, downright evil, while rush limbaugh's comparing obama to hitler in town hall meetings getting ugly. a closer look at what is fueling the anger when we come back. to stay in tune with life after 50,

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the debate over health care reform getting ugly. tonight, sarah palin posted a long statement on her facebook page calling the obama plan, quote, down right evil. she says it would force her disabled son to stand in front of an obama death panel in her words. rush limbaugh, meanwhile, going further comparing the president to hitler. >> adolf hitler like barack obama also ruled by dictate. his cabinet only met once, one day. that was it. hitler said he didn't need to meet with his cabinet. he represented the will of the people. >> the anger not just on talk radio. it's coming through loud and clear from some voters showing up at these congressional town halls turning them into shout

fests. look at the scene in tampa, florida, during a town hall co-hosted by congresswoman kathy castor. check this out. >> get off of me. >> back up. >> hear our voice! hear our voice! >> because it is -- what makes us who we are. >> what you're seeing there is castor being escorted out of the room. she had to be taken out by security. what exactly is going on here? how far will this go? karen was at last night's protests and she is co-founder

of the 912 project in tampa. we've also got down in tampa, roland martin. sanchez. in new york, daily beast contributor. john avalon joining us as well. karen, i want to talk to you for a minute and get a better sense of what's going on here. as we mentioned, you helped organization nice the event we just saw there. i'm all for civic engagement. explain to me what the point is of shouting down your congresswoman or congressman? yelling at them? what does that really get you? >> the point is not to shout down our congressman. the point is to be heard by our congressman. >> i'll let you finish. nobody was being heard there. i mean, that was total chaos. everyone yelling. >> right. well, you mentioned that we -- why did we organize that? that was spontaneous. our group is a spontaneous group. we're a grassroots organization. >> grassroots organization is what i meant. you organized at the grassroots

level all these people to come together, right? >> right. i created a meetup page for $10. and organized the event osa and move-on and the democratic executive committee put on. i posted the same thing for the same amount of time. we outnumbered them 5-1. >> answer my question, if you wouldn't mind. what's the point of what we're watching there which is the people you brought together yelling at this congresswoman? again, what does that get you? >> well, people are frustrated. middle america feels disenfranchised. we are not being listened to. our congress people are rushing things through, i think i heard a gentleman the other day say, you know, they're rushing this thing through. it took barack obama six months to pick out a dog and here we have this rush to pass this health care reform? people are scared they're going to lose their health care. it's going to create huge deficits that are going to outlast my children. there's no need to rush. this health care plan doesn't

get started until 2013. there's other solutions and people aren't being heard. there's many free -- >> hold on, roland. i'm going to get to you guys in a minute. i want to talk to karen. here's what i don't understand. you say people aren't being heard. how can anybody be heard if this is your approach? the congresswoman is here to listen to you and these throngs of people show up and yell all at once. how could anyone possibly listen to that? >> she wasn't there to listen to us. she was there to tell us her talking point. >> how do you know that? did you give her a chance? >> yeah. she started in with her platitudes on this health care bill and said she was going to be there to answer questions but she left. >> let me just ask you, karen, if congress doesn't get where you are and how you're feeling and your frustration and your anger about this, who does? who are you listening to? who's inspiring you right now?

>> well, i get my news from a number of sources. i'm looking at -- >> who's the leader? who are you looking to if you don't like your congresswoman? >> we're grassroots. we're a local organization. there's nobody -- i'm not getting a dime from anybody. >> i'm not talking about money. who's your inspiration? >> you know what, politico had a story about the deputy chief of staff telling people to hit him hard. if they come at you, hit them again harder. these stories -- the white house is coming out with, you know, snitch on your neighbor if you're telling a health care story we don't support. there's all these things. moveon.org put out a memo today, they're paying $250,000. it says we have hired skilled grassroots organizers. they're building online tools to track -- you know what, i pay $10 and -- >> i don't think you quite got my question.

i'm curious as to who, like, is there someone in the republican party, someone in the democratic party? is there a person? is there anyone who you think gets what you're feeling right now in. >> we get our news from a variety of sources. we're not just republican. we're not just democrats. if you look at our organization, you're going to see a variety of americans that are coming together. democrats are frustrated with this. republicans. we have a vast number of independents and the president is slipping in these independents. it's because they're trying to rush this through and they're not listening to the public. >> let any go to you, roland. just get your take on what you're seeing in these videos. i mean, clearly, you know, whether -- it doesn't to me matter whether this is organized at the national level or not. clearly there are a lot of people out there feeling angry and it's showing up in these for forums. >> campbell, my parents were grassroots organizers. i have attended town hall meetings where members of

congress were there. i think these people are pathetic. i think it is ridiculous. how can you sit here and say we want to be heard when you're shouting? no one can hear you. when you don't believe in the president's health care plan i think what you need to do is explain to the american people why we feel this way. standing here and pointing fingers and standing here and shouting and pushing and shoving. you know what? i hate to go there. the reality is skip gates was arrested for what these people are doing here. this is absolutely ridiculous. you're not going to have a credible conversation. not going to have people who might be on your side join you if you engage in this kind of ridiculous behavior. >> let any give you a counterpoint to that. this is what peggy noonan wrote, john. she's defending these groups showing up saying what town hall meetings represent is a feeling of rebellion, an uprising against change they don't believe in. the democratic response has been

stunningly crude and aggressive. it has been to attack. have we been left with this aggravated situation? >> i think democrats do underestimate the anger out there. independents are breaking with the obama administration on deficit spends and growth of big government. that's what some of these folks are reacting to. the real wake-up call needs to be in the republican party where the fringe is blurring with the base and there's a trickledown. some of the influential figures out there who keep stirring the pot. hate is a cheap tool but it can be hell in a democracy. that's what is happening here. >> leslie, you're a republican here. many republicans have conceded rush limbaugh has become fairly or unfairly like it or not the most influential voice in the party right now. you heard him comparing obama's policies to hitler. this incendiary rhetoric, what is it doing? >> i can't speak for what rush is doing. i think many people have sat in this seat that can agree with

that. the big story that's getting missed here is that these are not professional organizers. these are individuals listening in many cases to local talk radio. you have 97.1 in st. louis that was very frustrated about cash for clunkers. they pushed for a town hall. these are people who are -- don't know each other who are coming together based on frustration. many of them are proud, strong americans, pay their taxes. concerned about future generations. do not know all these tactics. who are they fighting against? they're going against unions stacking the rooms against them. they're going against people like moveon.org that are proficient at putting these kind of, you know, conversations together. i think that we have to give some flexibility. let's be fair. let's give some flexibility. everybody knows shouting. this is not kindergarten, the playground. it's not going to work. the frustration is real. you can talk to companies who try to get people to organize

like this. they say unless the gasoline is there you can't light the match and get going. >> we talk about these local talk shows. you have conservative talkers who are largely on these stations driving this conversation. again, you're not going to have to credible conversation in this country about this particular plan if you engage in this behavior. now, what you is according to our own poll, 37% of obama supporters, they're not out here attending these rallies as well. so you have the fringe elements who are going at it. you cannot engage in the behavior of attacking a member of congress requiring security to walk them out of the room and then you say, oh, you're not listening to me. no, you're behavioring in a ridiculous manner. if any of these people had children, they would say how dare you, a child, act like this in public. >> guy, could i -- >> very quickly, karen. >> the only violence i saw was the union people going up to the door and man handling a guy and ripping his shirt and scratching

him. then the thing about you said, i didn't hear what rush said. i did hear what pelosi said. she said when she was asked about our groups if he thinks we're astroturfs. she said they're carrying swastikas in town hall meetings. so, you know, many -- we're being wrongly depicted here. the violence you see on the screen -- >> very many sides to this story certainly. a lot of very strong feelings. i am sorry we're out of time. many thanks for all of you for joining us tonight. appreciate the conversation. some breakout video tonight. hillary clinton getting down. the secretary of state lets loose in kenya. a little bit of fun on friday. plus tonight's "newsmaker" jermaine jackson. listen to what he said about the young man joe jackson says is michael's secret son. >> i really don't know if he's his son or not. the fact he's been around michael so much. i've seen pictures of him

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now a look at some of the other must-see stories of the day. erica hill here with tonight's "download." >> billy mays' cocaine use contributed to his sudden death according to an autopsy report. the 50-year-old pitchman died of a heart attack in june. a florida medical examiner says mays used cocaine days before he died and they say it either caused or aggravated the heart disease that killed him. high drama at a long beach, california, high-rise today. two window washers dangling from a 15-story building after a rope

on their scaffolding broke. one man was left hanging for almost an hour before firefighters got him to safety. aerosmith summer tour in doubt after lead singer steven tyler's nasty fall from a stage. amateur video shows tyler dancing, then tumbling backwards off the stage wednesday night in south dakota. the 61-year-old air lifted to the hospital. he broke his shoulder, needed stitches in his head but is expected to recover. on a lighter note, secretary of state hillary clinton dancing in the name of diplomacy. there she is with some kenyan dancers at a dinner party in nairobi on wednesday. this, of course, one of. stops at her seven nation tours through africa. looks like she's having a great time. >> she's really throwing herself into it. >> she is. >> got to give her credit. >> that's always the most awkward video i would imagine

for any politician when they have to go visit the country and do the dance. they know it's not going to turn out well. it's like late-night fodder. >> when you stop halfway through it you look awkward but she went for it. police say the suburban mom who drove the wrong way who crashed that minivan full of children was drunk and had smoked marijuana before the accident. why does her husband say this? >> i go to bed every night knowing -- listen to this. i go to bed every night knowing my heart is clear. she did not drink. she's not an alcoholic. listen to all that. she is not an alcoholic. my heart is rested every night when i go to bed. something medically had to have happened. some lunch. you hungry? yeah.

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it seems to defi fify lodgg. a suburban mother slams head on into an suv in broad daylight. eight people killed in the accident. then came the horrifying news that the mother was drunk on the equivalent of ten shots of vodka and she had smoked marijuana. a 36-year-old mother drove the wrong way for nearly two miles on a new york highway with five children inside her minivan. they struck an suv with three adults head on. eight people were killed. >> diane shuler had a blood alcohol content of .19%. the legal content is .08%. >> a grieving husband defends his wife who investigators say was drunk and high when she caused a crash that killed eight people. >> she did not drink. she is not an alcoholic.

>> reporter: shuler's attorney claims there could be other reasons diane became disoriented. a stroke, diabetes, even suggesting the abscess in her mouth and suspicious bump on her legs were clues of a major medical problem. wednesday, lawyers for three of the victims in the other vehicle raced doubts of how shuler's family didn't know about her condition. >> i believe there's a strong fragrance of criminality in this matter. it's inconceivable that nobody in the deceased driver's family was aware of the fact that she had a drinking problem or a drug problem. >> so could she have hidden her drinking, her drug use from her family? that's tonight's big question. howard samuels, executive director of the wonderland drug treatment center. lisa bloom. dr. jorge rodriguez, board certified in internal medicine. doctor, let me ask you, possible at all what the family is claiming?

diabetes, a mystery bump in the leg, a problem with her tooth. a stroke. could any of this have possibly driven this in some way? >> let me tell you from what i've seen from the autopsy reports, i don't think that's possible. you can't ignore the evidence of there was 2 1/2 legal limits of alcohol in this woman's blood. more compelling, there was approximately six grams of alcohol in her stomach which meant she must have consumed alcohol at least within half an hour to one hour of the accident and otherwise there was no sign of stroke. an autopsy in the brain. there was no hemorrhaging in the brain. diabetes, even if you have low blood sugar, you probably wouldn't have gone for two miles driving on the wrong side of the road. the evidence i've seen, campbell, does not coincide with anything other than alcohol use. >> not to mention what was in her blood or what was in her stomach, howard, as dr. rodriguez just said, but also a bottle of vodka found at the

crash site. is it possible this woman was an alcoholic and her family was in denial or she could have kept it from them? >> well, i mean, campbell, i mean this is such a classic case of denial of alcoholism played out on the national stage. i mean, not only was the woman obviously in denial she had an issue but the family, i mean, just shocking, that they would come out and be in denial of this woman having any kind of issue. it is not normal that a woman out on a sunday outing with her children would drink or smoke marijua marijuana. that is a problem. >> terrifying problem. lisa, you know, this accident killed eight people and to howard's point, there's some talk of a civil suit. this family could theoretically be on the hook for a lot of money. is that why we're hearing some of the things come from them which sound like excuses, obviously? >> well, i'm sure there will be a wrongful death case against her estate. i don't know how much money is in the estate. now that the family has an

attorney, they're trying to come up with alternate theories with the crash. they're going to have to argue the toxicology is completely wrong. that the police planted that information. there's massive lab error. that's extremely unlikely given there will never be a criminal trial here because the mom who was driving is deceased. so it doesn't make sense that the police would have misbehaved in any way. what does make sense is there's an empty bottle of vodka in the car. there's vodka in her stomach. there's high levels of blood alcohol in her and thc from the marijuana. she ingested the alcohol, the marijuana. the family either didn't know, didn't want to know or they're fabricating at this point. >> howard, to foe low up on your other point, you hear the family say she was a good mother, never put her children in danger. do addicts realize, i guess, the risks that they're taking? >> you know, campbell, i work with a lot of mothers who are alcoholics and they drive their children drunk. they're good mothers but when you drink you're not a good

mother. you become instain. and you do horrible things. and i have a lot of mothers in my practice, today, that are sober but live in the shame and guilty of what they did under the influns of alcohol. >> we have to end it there. many thanks. >> you're welcome. thank you. tonight's d #"newsmaker" jermaine jackson is going to answer the question many including police want to know about his brother, michael. a great deal gets even better. let us recycle your older vehicle and you could qualify for an additional $3500 or $4500 cash back on a new, more fuel-efficient chevy. your chevy dealer has more eligible models to choose from. more than ford, toyota, or honda. now get an '09 silverado for under twenty eight-five after all offers. and get it for even less if you qualify for cash for clunkers program. go to chevy.com for details.

tonight's "newsmaker" jermaine jackson. his first interview since his younger brother's memorial service. "larry king" exclusive. talks about their last moments together and where he thinks the king of pop shower buried. >> i want him at neverland. there's a -- >> larry: she's your mother. can't you say, hey, mom? >> i'm the only one, larry. there's, like, so many. >> larry: what does your mother say? does she give you any hint? >> well, she's thinking about -- see, i'm most concerned about security and him being secured in a peaceful setting. >> larry: if you had a public place it would be like having a presley initially. they had to move presley's body to graceland. >> yes. i'm most concerned about that. at the end of the day -- >> daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine.

and i just want to say i love him so much. >> larry: how did you feel during that moment? >> well, she said it all. all the names they called him and all the things they said about him for so many years and she stepped up and said, daddy, he was a father. he was a wonderful father and he was the great human being. she said it all. it wasn't planned. >> larry: how are they doing? >> they're doing fine. they're slowly -- but they're playing with my kids and they're coming back strong. they're doing fine. >> larry: what do you make of the crime factor? >> well, i really don't know that much about it. you can look at the kids and tell that they're michael's kids and the fact that people come forth and they say things just to get attention, but those are definitely michael's children. >> larry: do you think it's a

good idea debbie rowe is going to get some visitation? >> absolutely. she's -- i've spoken to her. we talk about horses because she has a ranch and i had a ranch before, but, yes, i think it's perfect. it's wonderful. >> larry: what do you make of omar? he reportedly denies he is michael's son. he was seated with the jackson family during the staple center service. and there's also photos from this weekend of omar out with prince and blanket as well as jermaine's sons. who is he? >> i would say he's probably someone who michael really endeared and who wanted to just be a part of his life. i really don't know if he's his son or not. the fact he's been around michael so much. i've seen pictures of him dressed just like michael with the hat and the red shirt and everything. if he's not his son, we're going to continue to give him love. >> larry: you like him? >> we. >> larry: do you know or have

knowledge of michael being addicted to anything? >> no. >> larry: never discussed it? >> i have never seen him act abnormal around me or never known anything like that. >> larry: did you ever ask him about it. >> no. >> larry: why not? >> that never came to my mind. i tell you if there was anything administered in my brother's body that was not in a proper setting meaning a hospital, that would be dealt with. the last time i saw him we were singing a song together. so i said, michael, i love the way you did that. that song we were just singing. ♪ baby don't make me, baby don't make me fly away ♪ this song is so nice. he was singing the harmony. so we started singing harmony together. i said, michael, i love what you did on that song. he said thank you, that means a lot coming from you. >> the entire jermaine jackson interview with larry king coming up the at top of the hour. the next big question tonight. should any of the manson family killers be released from prison?

it's been 40 years since the grisly murders. listen to what manson's right hand man tech watson is saying now. >> i have committed one of the most heinous crimes in the history of mankind. i realize that. i'm very remorseful for that and would give anything if i could pay for it. etter. let us recycle your older vehicle and you could qualify for an additional $3500 or $4500 cash back on a new, more fuel-efficient chevy. your chevy dealer has more eligible models to choose from. more than ford, toyota, or honda. now get an '09 cobalt for under fifteen-five after all offers. and get it for even less if you qualify for cash for clunkers program. go to chevy.com for details. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

40 years ago this weekend, charles manson and his followers turned the summer of love into the summer of terror in los angeles. to this day, the manson family's gruesome killing spree continues tomorrow's "breakout" story, ted rowlands find four of manson's followers on the edge of old age, still in prison and haunted for what they did so long ago. >> reporter: they shocked the world. young, good looking american kids in their 20s. laughing about butchering their innocent victims. the manson killers are now in their 60s. text watson, leslie van outen. patricia kren wrinkle and susan atkins, disciples of a madman who turned them into monsters. watson and kren wrinkle took

part in all seven murders. four at the home of actress tate in beverly hills. they came to this house ten miles away where they tortured and killed the laviancas. >> i stood in the stairway and looked into a dark room that looked like a den. i stood there until text turned me around and handed me a knife and he said, do something. i went back in the bedroom and ms. lavianca was laying on the floor on her stomach and i stabbed her numerous times in the back. >> reporter: atkins was with watson and kren wrinkle during the murders holding down 8 1/2 month pregnant actress sharon tate as she pleaded for her and her daughter's life. what did you do to her? >> i told her that i didn't have her baby live.

>> reporter: how manson convinced his flock to kill and torture without remorse baffled the world. manson family members say it was a combination of charisma, drugs, and his knack for creating the right group of vulnerable followers. >> it was us. he would be saying the things we had been thinking. we thought he had an end to our very thoughts and our very hearts. >> reporter: atkins, kren wrinkle and van haugten said they left broken homes. the faces of the manson killers have gotten older. the courthouse smiles and giggles replaced with pleas for forgiveness. >> that i could have even been involved with something like that. >> it's terribly difficult to do. because i feel terrible about it

that i cannot change it no matter what i do. i cannot change one minute of my life. >> granted i have committed one of the most heinous crimes in the history of mankind. i realize that and i'm very remorseful for that and would give anything if i could pay for it. >> reporter: first sentenced the death, the manson killers were given life sentences when the death penalty was abolished by the state supreme court. charles manson remains in prison and has over the years attended his parole hearings. susan atkins has terminal brain cancer. last year her request for compassionate release was de denied. she's scheduled for a parole hearing next month. kren wrinkle and watson not expected to have a hearing until 2010. all four claim they're remor remorseful. the family of sharon tate don't believe any of them deserve the mercy that sharon and their

unborn child never saw. ted rowlands, cnn, los angeles. 40 years later both the fascination and fear remain. tonight we hear from the prosecutor who put the manson family behind bars. mr. evans? this is janice from onstar. i have received an automatic signal you've been in a front-end crash. do you need help? yeah. i'll contact emergency services and stay with you. you okay? yeah. onstar. standard for one year on 14 chevy models. (pouring rain)

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broadview security for your home or business - the next generation of brink's home security. call now. it was the vincent bugliosi to stop the manson family reign of terror. he prosecuted charles manson and three followers on murder charges. they were convicted and received death sentences that may have

been carried out have california not overturned the death penalty. helter-skelter became the best selling true crime book of all time. as we approach the 40th anniversary of the tate labianca murders, vincent bugliosi joining us from pasadena, california. >> happy to be on the show. >> 40 years later still this obsessive subculture around manson. you got to know him better than anybody. what explains the fascination? >> well, there are many reasons. i think one reason is the sociallogical implication the manson murders may have sounded the hippies and all that are represented. the white album, said the '60s, the so-called decade of love, quote, ended abruptly on august the 9th, 1969, the night of the tate murders. we have the fact they may have murdered 35 people and already

had plans to murder prominent personalities like frank sinatra, liz taylor, et cetera. the fact the murders were incredibly brutal. 169 stab wounds. if i were to single out one reason above all others for the continuing fascination of the case, the murders were probably the most bizarre in the records of american crime. people are fascinated by things that are strange and bizarre. manson, himself, how many charles mansons are out there. the incredible motives for the murders. to start a war between blacks and whites. at the murder scene killers printed words from beatles songs in blood. you've already touched on the fact these killers came from young kids from average american homes. totally different, completely different from what we would have expected of mass murderers. there's all types of reasons for the continuing fascination in this case. the very name manson has come to

become a metaphor for evil and for whatever reason, again, people are fascinated by evil. evil has its allure. >> talk a little more about the man, himself. he's serving a life sentence in prison. according to reports he hasn't participated in education, rehabilitation programs at all in prison. is this someone you think is capable of remorse? >> no. no. he's a very evil, sophisticated con man and there's no question that when he was convicted in '71, if he wasn't, he would have continued to kill. kill as many people as he could. he has an enormous hostility toward society and he used these people to vent his spleen on society for him. >> what about a stallworth? go ahead. finish your point. >> well, i'm saying, even if he were capable of remorse and rehabilitation, that has nothing to do with justice and deterrence. if justice means anything in america, he should spend the rest of his lives behind bars. i asked the jury for the death penalty and came back with a

verdict of death. that was set aside. rehabilitation does not apply here. >> couldn't agree more. what about his followers, though? let's talk about this. they've all been denied parole multiple times. susan atkins has terminal brain cancer. her husband is pleading for her release. what do you think about that? >> we don't have time to think about that. her left leg is amputated. her right leg is paralyzed. she's got a couple months to live. i could talk to you about her, but it would take minutes. it's a totally different situation. i can add a couple things by way of footnote. it has nothing to do with her legal culpability. no question she's guilty. aider and abettor. co-conspirator. however, in 1978 "tex" watson said in his book i was wrong. said he stabbed susan tate. susan adkins told me she stabbed

sharon tate to death. i put her on the stand the next day before she went back to her god, charles manson and she would not say that. another point, she left her knife behind she told two co-inmates of her in l.a. and did not go back to get it. she thought of getting it. a buck knife was found less than three feet from sharon tate and the lapd examined the knife, of course, and found no residue of blood on that blade. it's a very complicated issue with susan atkins that we don't have time to get into but none of them should get out. >> i wish we had time. it's amazing, though, in all honesty, here we are 40 years later and there's so much you can talk about and there is extraordinary fascination still with this case. vincent bugliosi, we appreciate your time and you coming on and chatting with us tonight. thank you. >> thank you. in africa, a surprise dowry offer for chelsea clinton.

hillary clinton sat down with fareed zakaria and asked her about an unusual offer for chelsea clinton. listen to the answer. >> kenya city councilman says he offered bill clinton 40 goats and 20 cows for his daughter's hand in marriage five years ago. he is still awaiting an answer and i thought on this occasion, you know, mrs. clinton, if you think about -- if you think in the current global economic climate where asset values have gone down, your stock portfolio is probably down. your husband has had to do a little bit of government work, take time off from the private sector, it's not a bad offer. >> well, my daughter is her own person. she's very independent, so i ll