political podcast and get if best political team to go. you can subscribe at cnn.com/situationroom. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." up next, ""lou dobbs tonight."" the white house is struggling to sell the president's health care proposals. his poll numbers continue to plunge. extremist fringe groups are now trying to dominate the health care debate. we will tell you who is behind those groups, both on the left and the right. also, rising concern tonight that the obama administration is trying to push through a big government agenda funded by american taxpayers, an agenda that some say could change this country forever. that is the subject of our face-off debate tonight. new evidence that the worst recession sings world war ii has ended. even the federal reserve acknowledging our economy has stabilized, something that i have been predicted, i might point out, for months. we begin with the president's approval ratings, now at the lowest level since

his inauguration. president obama has been on a full-out campaign to sell his health care plan. but all of the polling shows the president losing ground on every major national issue. the congressional budget office has contradicted the president's assertion on the cost, the efficiency and the impact of his health care plan. today, white house press secretary robert gibbs was on the defensive. >> we have complete coverage tonight. candy crowley reporting from iowa, jessica yellin reporting from washington, d.c. first, dan lothian reporting from the white house. >> you don't know! >> nobody 74 is going to be written off because they have cancer. >> why don't they take the health care being forced down our throat? >> you don't trust me? >> there's a lot of noise in the health care debate, some of which the white house is calling misinformation, that could muddle the message. >> is there any concern at all

that if this misinformation machine continues and the record can't be corrected as the white house would like it to be, that it could potentially make it more difficult to get health care reform across? >> the debate is dominated by something that's not true, of course. >> but white house spokesman robert gibbs hopes public support for health care reform will hinge on the facts. >> i don't think the president believes, though, that when all is said and done, that most people will make their decisions on something that is false and something that has been said as false. >> reporter: even as the president was trying to set the record straight in portsmith, new hampshire, tuesday, his own facts were fuzzy. this is what he said about the aarp. >> aarp would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining medicare. i just want seniors to be clear about this. >> while the aarp agrees it would never support a bill that

undermines medicare, in a statement, its chief operating officer called any suggestion of an endorsement, quote, inaccurate. gibbs cleaned it up this way. >> i don't think the president meant to imply anything untoward. >> he just misspoke? >> right. >> reporter: the white house says these town halls the president has held have been valuable, a way to inform and knock down what they see as false information about health care reform. so the president hits the road again this weekend with town halls in bows man, montana, and grand junction, colorado. dan lothian, cnn, the white house. white house press secretary robert gibbs was on the defensive as i said on the issue of whether the president misrepresented the aarp's position on health care. we're going to play for you the entirety of that section of the press briefing from the question onward. let's listen. >> yesterday the president said aarp endorsed the plan. as you're aware, aarp said

yesterday it hasn't endorsed the plan. where on the information or disinformation scale would the president's remark fall? >> well, the president said -- aarp said they are certainly supportive and have been for years on comprehensive health reform. i don't think the president meant to imply anything untoward. i think he discussed the notion that aarp is supportive of -- an agreement that would fund filling the doughnut hole for seniors as part of medicare part d as well as additional savings vings for comprehensive health care. >> [ inaudible ] aarp hasn't endorsed the house pending slax. >> which is what i've just said. >> he's aware of that. he wasn't trying to mislead anyone, he just misspoke? >> right. >> is that something that can happen in this debate? >> that people can misspeak? >> without intentionally meaning

to mislead? >> sure. i don't know if it's happened on certain subjects, but yeah. >> so within the range of this whole discussion, something can be wrong, but not necessarily intentional misinformation is what i'm getting at? >> um, yeah. i think most of -- i think most of what the president president has addressed has been in many ways intentional misinformation. >> that he's been trying to correct? >> right. >> all of that from a press secretary speaking for a white house promising complete transparency and openness. the summation, the president misspoke. it may be that he was not the only member of the administration to misspeak recently. secretary of state hillary clinton in nigeria saying democracy in america is still evolving. she also made a surprising comment about the 2000 presidential election in this country while on foreign soil. >> our democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in some of our past elections, as you might remember. in 2000, our presidential

election came down to one state where the brother of the man running for president was the governor of the state. so we have our problems, too. >> a state department spokesman tonight told us, quote, the secretary's remarks stand on their own. as we reported to you earlier, the president's poll numbers continue to fall. a new gallup poll shows the president's job ap vl pro has fallen to 53%. the latest rasmussen puts it even lower, 48%. one of those reasons for the declining poll numbers is rising concern about the president's agenda which is meeting strong resistance. a leading republican senator, senator charles grassley today reported people are scared by the president's health care plan and other policies. senator grassley making that comment at a town hall meeting in his home state of high wa. candy crowley reports from iowa. >> if it's okay with you, i'll

get started. >> reporter: winterset, iowa, grassley holds his 72nd town hall meeting this year. and what a year. >> we're here at a time when i sense people are scared for our country. >> reporter: the stimulus plan, bailouts, government spending and now health care. grassley has been getting two, sometimes three times the crowds he's had in previous years. many people, so many hands in the air. >> where do my children go to get their insurance if they don't want government health care? >> how are you going to change the insurance so that the small businesses can compete. >> so many cross currents. >> i need to know what you're doing for these insurance companies that are putting everything in their pocket and laughing at everybody else. simple math even for this southern iowa red-neck, so we can cover the people who want coverage with a private policy cheaper, like 1/3 for what the

government is proposing. >> reporter: it is a tricky journey home. he's part of a smaller group, republicans and democrats, trying to come to some moderation, piecing together a compromised health care bill. some of his constituents urge him to press on. but the core of his base is concerned grassley will bend too much on his way to a compromise. so bouncing from town hall meeting number 72 to 73, 74 and 75, grassley, up for re-election next year starts with what he won't agree to. >> i'm not goings to do anything to nationalize health insurance or nationalize health care in america. i don't intend to do anything to allow government pure krats to get between you and your doctor. >> reporter: the senator pushes back against people he says want him to sit at his desk with his feet up. he's at the center of the senate negotiations, he says, to keep the senate from giving away the store. >> you know the old saying, if

you aren't at the table, you're the menu. >> reporter: at the moment senator grassley seems to think things are not going to well at that table. he has hinted to all the audiences today that it is possible when the senate comes back and the senate finance committee gets back down to work face to face, the democrats may take off on their own without any sort of republican input. senator grassley said i won't walk away from the table, but i may be pushed away by things he just won't agree to. lou? >> given the poll numbers that we're looking at, that becomes something of a daunting task for the democrats, does it not? >> reporter: well, what is very interesting here, when you come to senator grassley's town hall meetings, and there's been four of them, so we've got a good gist. >> what did you say, he wrapped up 75 of them? >> this year. he's done more than 2800 in his senate career. >> good for him.

god bless. >> certainly he wins for stamina. that's for sure. she stays for an hour, all of them. these aren't hit and runs. he's really getting buff ted on two sides. here in adelle, what was really interesting is we had one woman stand up and say, listen, that you're even trying to compromise, there is no compromise with this liberal package. we won't take any of it. right after her, someone got up and said, you know, i'm a christian woman and i'm a liberal, why are you not correcting all the lies out there about death beds and natd sive signs with barack obama? both ways he goes he really gets slammed. what we're seeing is what we're seeing in the polls is those huge deep divisions. >> one of the things we're examining here tonight, candy, the left and the right and really the fringes of the left and the right in this country dominating much of this debate. thank you very much, candy. candy crowley reporting. >> reporter: sure. a leading democrat, senator

arlen specter blasting opponents of the president's health care plan. senator specter declared that critics may not be, in fact, representative of the american people. we insisted they should be heard, however. >> the groups are not necessarily representative of america. they're significant. we have to take into account what they have to say. and they're very angry about what's going on in washington and angry about partisanship and about the bickering and the failure to deal with issues as a matter of principle. >> senator specter today again faced a barrage of tough questions on the health care plan. it is the third town hall meeting for senator specter over the past two days. powerful advocacy groups from the left and the right are battling over the health care agenda. they include the democratic national committee, u.s. chamber of commerce, paying for competing television commercials. but a number of extreme fringe groups on both the left and the right are also committed deeply

to this fight. jessica yellin reports from washington. jessica, who is involved and how deeply in this health care, what's their agenda? >> you say many are allied with groups. the dnc director called the protest group right wing extremists. many of the people at these events are from both political extremes, encouraged to come by advocacy groups on the left and the right. on the left, groups like a.c.o.r.n., move on, some of the major labor unions, all notifying supporters asking them to attend town halls and those organizations, as you know, are fierce defenders of progressive or liberal policies. on the right, organizing help was coming in part from conservatives for patient rights, another group called freedom works. those organizations, they're opponents of the president's

overall agenda, not just health care reform. so it should be no surprise that what you end up with at these town halls is a good group of ideological folks, not there to learn about health care reform, but to defend their position. these town halls might seem polarized, but that doesn't mean they're an accurate reflection of the mood of the country as a whole. >> the mood isn't primarily from polling, is great wariness here. in part, some of that, i wonder if it rests with health care itself or the fact that this government, this federal government, both republican and democratic administrations, has been so horrifically dysfunctional and seemingly incapable of managing both the country and resolving issues that are now longstanding including national health care. >> reporter: it does seem the health care reform issue is sort of a proxy for a lot of people's deep frustrations about what you point out, the debt,

dissatisfaction with government, even a general sense of a loss of control in their own lives, people not making as much money as they thought they would make, not being able to get the better health care they thought they would have and venting it in some ways through their frustrations over health care reform. >> jessica yellin reporting from washington. up next, we'll be examining concerns that the president is pushing for the biggest expansion over in government. also many economists saying the recession has ended. the white house, however, not acknowledging that turn-around in the economy. we'll have a special report on spain's health care system. you won't see that report anywhere else on television. we'll have it next right here.

as congress and president obama try to radically change this nation's health care system, we on this broadcast are asking and answering many of the questions that washington isn't thinking about or at least not acknowledging. one of those questions is how satisfied are we with our health care system and what is, if any, the link between satisfaction and life expectancy and patient care. 83% of americans, as we've reported, are satisfied with the quality of the american health

care system. life expectancy in this country is 78.1 years, below the average of 79 years in other developed countries. in denmark, 90% satisfied with their publicly funded system, life expectancy there just about the same as in the united states, 78.4 years. in germany, more than half of all germans aren't satisfied with their health care system. their life expectancy is 79.8 years, considerably better than that of the united states. 57% of the people in the uk say their system notes an overhaul, life expectancy, 78.9 years. in canada, 70% like their system. life expectancy, almost 81 years. 84% of the french satisfied with their health care. life expectancy there, 81 years. 46% of the folks in the netherlands say their system needs a change, life expectancy 80 years. switzerland's health care system ranked seventh in the survey of the 32 developed nations, life

expectancy almost 82 years. we've been reporting on health care systems around the world, tonight we're going to examine the health care system in spain. spain's health care system placed 17th in a consumer satisfaction survey of those 32 nations life expectancy in spain is above average. 81 years, almost three years longer than in america. their system is publicly funded, and doctors work directly for the government. katie pilgrim has our report. >> reporter: spain provides health care for its entire population, approaching the standards of any other european country. it's come a long way. richard saltman has written extensively on various health care systems in europe. >> we need to remember 20 years ago spain was a relatively impoverished country. there's been a big change. >> reporter: total spending accounts for 8.5% of gdp in spain, compared to 6% of gdp in the united states.

health care spending per capita is $2,671 compared to $7,290 in the united states. doctors are plenltful, but are salaried employees of the regional government, with a salary of around $100,000 a year. because that is lower than doctors in other developed countries, it helps keep medical costs low. >> the disadvantage of that is that doctors work 40 hours. they look at their clock at 4:00 in the afternoon and go home. >> still, there are more physicians per capita, one in 270 versus one in 416 for the united states. life expect tancy, 81.1 years compared to 78 years for the united states. yet richard saltman describes the spanish system as troubled. >> inside the public sector, there's a great deal of squabbling between the national government and the 17 regional governments that are now responsible for running the

system. >> the national government gives tax money to the regions who are responsible for providing health care. the funding is from income tax and a value-added tax, as high as 16% on almost everything that is purchased in the country. richer, more politically powerful regions tend to have more resources and better service than the poorer areas. >> now, there are a few negatives. people must choose a doctor or hospital in the region where they live. they're required to stay local in their choice of coverage. if that region has fewer resources, there is no choice to spich to another more affluent region for health care, lou. >> patient care ranks well? >> patient care in terms of -- >> patient satisfaction. >> very high, because they were actually a very poor country and they've come a long way in terms of providing health care in the last, say, ten years. patient satisfaction is very, very high. but there are some very big negative ins the system if you look at it. >> thank you very much.

very revealing to look at these varying levels of life expectancy in each of these countries. we should point out that there are other factors that go into determining that number statistically. and we're going to get to some of the qualifications in this in the days ahead and also the impact of the economic conditions of each of these countries, their debt levels, their trade deficits and their total social and political environment. we also looked at the amount of debt as a percentage of gdp for the eight countries we reported on and the united states. based on last year's reports, denmark's debt amounted to $80.5 billion. that's 22% of their gdp. spain's debt, $632 billion, 37.5%, the netherlands, $391 billion, 43% of their grrksdp. switzerland's debt, almost $217 billion, 44% of gdp.

as these debt levels keep rising, the uk, $1.3 trillion, 47.2%. the uu.s., about $9 trillion, 60%. canada's debt, ought most $1 trillion, 62%. germany, 63% of its economy. france, a $2 trillion debt, a whopping 67% of its economy. we continue our comparisons of health care systems around the world. tomorrow we examine the system in japan where japan has the highest life expectancy of any nation on the globe. more than 82.5 years, the longevity of the average japanese citizen. up next, a town hall meeting in iowa. >> it is tyranny, enabling,

all-powering, all reaching government a power of life and death that was once understood to be reserved for god alone. >> we'll tell you why many people are scared of the president's health care initiatives. and some good news on this economy and why many economists are finally agreeing with me. we'll be right back.

we're committed here to bringing you the good news on the economy that much of the national media seems to be ignoring. when everyone else was saying the economy was collapsing, i would like to remind you i said there would be no depression, that there would be economic recovery before the end of this year. i said that a year ago. tod today, economists are catching up. brooke baldwin has our report. >> reporter: could it be? are we reading this right? one group of economists says the recession is over. diane swank was one of 27 economists who told the "wall street journal" this week the recession has ended. swank reports to several signs of progress. first, the housing market. she says the momentum has shifted from perpetual decline to some increases in activity,

like a boost from first-time buyers. second, carmakers and dealers getting a much-needed boost from the federal cash for clunkers program. and third, unemployment. while the rate is rising, fewer jobs are being shed. swank predicts job gains could happen at the end of this year. >> they won't be strong at first. but any sign of gains along with 401(k)s looking better, that will make us feel a little better about the economy. at the end of the day we're talking about confidence in the economy that's come from the edge of the abyss to the recession lows we saw in 1981 and '82. >> reporter: echoing this opt anymore, the federal reserve. wednesday the central bank reporting economic activity is leveling out. conditions in financial markets have improved further in recent weeks, and household spending has continued to show signs of stabilizing, but remains constrained. but are americans buying this bullish news? >> i'm hopeful, but still we're not there yet. >> i don't get the feeling that

it's as bad as people thought it was going to be. >> technically, the economists would argue we're out of recession, deep in the street, the public aren't going to feel that. they've been hurt, jobs are lost, houses are lost. >> reporter: lost, yes. but the economists are encouraged the losses are slowing. if things are truly turning around, we won't know it officially until early next year when the national bureau of economic research, the group officially charged with declaring the end of rae session, will make the announcement. if all the economists polled by the journal and you, lou, are correct, by that point in time we should be well into economic recovery. >> we'll have a sense of that before then. the orthodoxy in politics is usually wrong. the orthodoxy in economics is usually wrong. in mentioning the national economic research bureau, we don't know when the nerb would make that, but it would be sometime in that time range. good news.

obviously a lot of people feeling pain. a lot of people facing foreclosures, delinquencies and the credit cards and mortgages. job losses, as you report, continue to mount, but slowing. as the saying goes, we've been down so long that it looks up. this is hopefully the turn dr around. up next, president obama facing charges he's misrepresenting, as he put it, the facts in the health care debate. the president also being criticized for pursuing what some say is a big government agenda. we'll examine the fight over big government in our fis-off debate. our previous administration said the era of big government is over. we'll have a report on the $62 trillion in unfunded liabilities that face this nation and the risk of bankruptcy.

the federal government has posted a record $180 billion federal deficit for the month of july, bringing the total deficit to $1.25 trillion over the past ten months. unfunded liabilities, medicare and social security at a staggering $56 trillion. and the obama administration's health care proposal estimated to cost more than a trillion dollars. critics ask how can we even consider such a costly plan at this time? lisa sylvester has our report. >> reporter: medicare's trust fund will run out of money in 2017, just eight years from now, that according to a recent report from the trustees of the

social security and medicare fund. the social security fund will be insolvent by 2037. jamie foster of the conservative heritage foundation says liberals, mod rates and conservatives all agree something has to be done. >> we may disagree on the solutions, and we frequently do. but the problem has to be addressed. that is medicare and social security are promising benefits we can't afford. >> reporter: medicare, the program that covers those 65 and older and the disabled and medicaid that serves the poor have been gradually expanding benefits since their creation in 1965. the social security system has been strained with people living longer. add to that the upcoming baby boomer retirement wave, and the system is nearing its breaking point. president obama has said that health care reform is a necessary part of reigning in entitlement spending. without it he says -- >> your premiums will continue to skyrocket. they have gone up three times faster than your wages and will keep on going up. our deficit will continue to

grow because medicare and medicaid are on an unsustainable path. >> reporter: but fiscal hawks like the concord coalition's robert bixby says what he sees being debated on capitol hill won't do much to actually brick down costs. >> so far the bills we're seeing coming out of congress do a better job of expanding coverage than they do of controlling costs. >> reporter: bixby saying without real reform, medicare and social security will only continue to add to the record federal deficit. and robert bixby worries on the path we're on right now, some tough decisions will have to be made. higher taxes, more federal borrowing or cutting services. lou? >> and all of those issues not yet in discussion in the national debate or the hearings before the u.s. congress on so-called health care reform. >> reporter: the big question, how do you pay for it, of course. >> absolutely. thanks so much, lisa sylvester. many americans at the town

hall meetings across the country are raising concerns about big government. that brings us to the subject of our face-off debate tonight. should we reduce rather than expand the size and reach of our federal government? joining me now former presidential candidate steve forbes, author of "power, ambition and glory." jeff man drik, editor of "challenge" magazine, author of the new book "a case for big government." good to see you. it's been a while. we appreciate you being here. let me begin, steve, with you, is as some are charging, the obama health care initiative a call for a socialized medicine, a more socialistic america? >> certainly is. health care, as you know, is about 18% of the economy. what they have proposed will be defactor nationalization, turning health insurance companies either as wards of the government or very closely regulated utilities, telling companies like our company why kind of health insurance we can give our people, what has to be

in it and what can't be in it. if that's not semi nationalization, i don't know what is. we've seen what they've done with the insurance sector, auto companies. wherever they can grab, they grab. >> should would argue the previous administration did a lot with those industries. >> they certainly did. both administrations deserve to be taken over the rack on this. >> jeff, you said it it's ideological entrapment. >> i think it's a bad word, socialism. it's used in order to cast gate people. it labels people. it's sticks and stones will hurt me. sticks and stones will hurt my bones, but so will names. it's inflammatory because we've always had serious government in america. government is not some necessary evil that pops in and out of our lives. government has controlled and regulated events and economic issues even back to the 1790s. government built the canals.

government subsidized and paid for most of the railroad development. government built the sanitation system. >> economic stimulus. >> well, investment in ourselves, not just stimulus, but investment in our future. government built the primary schools. we have to be clear about this. this health care system is a mess, way before obama became or anybody thought obama could become president. it is a mess. business will not be able to pay the insurance they want to pay in 10 or 12 years. premiums are going way, way, up. >> steve? >> first of all, government has been involved in the economy from the get-go. the question is to what degree? till a few decades ago the federal government spending was about 3% of the economy, and we have the mightiest economy in the world. today in the 1980s and even in the 1990s we had the government at a fairly relatively stable or low level of the economy and the economy was the envy of the world. now this is a great leap

forward. federal spending going up proportionally or 40% from 20% to 28% of the economy. the regulations they want to put in, cap and trade, substantially raising the costs of energy. raising taxes. that's going to be a real burden on job creation and higher standard of living. >> steve, come on now. more government spending did not create the financial crisis. in fact, less government. deregulation, looking the other way, the entrenchment in the ideology for the last 30 years that said government keep out of this because markets always work. >> between the early 1980s -- >> -- need supervision. they need guidance. >> from the early 1980s, we in the world had the greatest advance in terms of people advancing economically in human history. what brought about the crisis, the core was the federal reserve printing too much money. they didn't print too much money, the housing bubble could

never reach the size it did. congress, creation, government agencies. fannie and freddie, no regulation on them, going on a bing. >> federal reserve has been accused of printing too much money time and again. this economy did not unwind because of that. it unwound because of this ideology, because of the ideology that government was looking the other way, and -- we grew far more rapidly in the '50s and '60s than we did in this period you call the greatest expansion. so let's get our facts here. >> let me show everybody in the audience, this -- the president of the united states in 1996, the state of the union address, william jefferson clinton. >> the era of big government is over.

>> now, here we are in the odd position of a democratic president having said that year, the year of big government is over. and in a peculiar position of a republican president for eight years presiding over the greatest expansion in federal government since the great society programs. what are we to make of those two? >> well, i think they're both wrong in serious ways. it was not the end of the era of big government. government remained a very big share of the gdp from my point of view. thank goodness government is not always affected by any man, but it is necessary. >> if government spending was the way to wealth, the soviet union would have won the cold war. the soviets lost the cold war. western europe is not a font of high technology. >> i'm sorry, gentlemen.

>> western europe is doing fine by any standard. >> not for innovation. there's no silicon valley in western europe. >> hopefully you'll both come back and we'll continue the discussion because the issue will be before us for some time. thank you very much jeff mad rick. the new book "a case for big government." and "power, ambition and glory," all things which steve has aspired. thanks for being with us. brooke baldwin has the update on the other important stories we're following tonight. >> the launch of a major marine offensive against a taliban strong hold in southern afghanistan. the marines exchanged heavy fire with insurgents in hell mund province before dawn. they're trying to provide security for next week's presidential election. at least seven insurgents were killed. the bodies of the five italian tourists killed in the mid air collision in the hudson river were back on their way home to

italy. the tourists were on a site seeing helicopter when it crashed saturday afternoon. the helicopter pilot and three people on board the plane were also killed in that crash. president obama held a reception for new associate justice sonia sotomayor in the white house. sotomayor was formally sworn in as supreme court justice at a ceremony on saturday. the supreme court's new term begins october 5th. those are some of the stories we're following tonight. lou? >> thank you very much. americans speaking out against the president's health care plan. are they un-american? >> your government has lost the faith and trust of the american people. >> why do they call representatives representatives? who in washington is listening to the people? president obama trying to clear up what he says are misrepresentations about his health care plan. did he do a little misrepresenting of his own?

- ( electricity sparking ) - ( printing press starting up ) ( choral grunts ) - ( ringing ) - ( skidding car tires ) ( mechanicals from inside titanic engine room ) - ( record scratches ) - ( people scream ) ( train whistle blowing ) ( growing faster, louder, more horrifying ) ( screaming ) ( loud game whistle blows ) announcer: stop. time out. there is no more money. they spent it all. wasted on bailouts and pork. now they want trillions for healthcare? let's take a breath. fix our economy first. - but they just won't stop. - ( sound of printing press starting back up ) well, together we can make them stop.

join millions signing our demand letter at trustcommonsense.com. sign today, before it's really too late. national republican trust pac is responsible for the content of this message. president obama says his opponents are wildly misrepresenting, as he put it, his positions on health care. his critics, however, say the president has done misrepresenting of his own. yesterday president obama incorrectly declared that the aarp supports a democratic party's health care legislation. an nez fer ray with our report. >> reporter: president obama wanted to dispell what he called

wild misrepresentations in tuesday's down hall meeting. in doing so, he made his own misrepresentation. >> aarp would not be endorsing a bill if it was undermining medicare. >> reporter: aarp which wants health care reform hasn't endorsed any bill. in a statement the organization said, quote, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in congress are inaccurate. white house spokesman robert gibbs saying obama misspoke. >> aarp has said they are certainly supportive and have been for years on comprehensive health reform. i don't think the president meant to imply anything untoward. >> reporter: aarp represents more than 40 million seniors. it's also one of the biggest endorsers of health insurers under his for-profit subsidiary, aarp services. in 2007, aarp services brought in nearly $498 million in royalties from endorsed providers for different products

and services. 60% of those revenues came from health-related products. this expert from a nonpartisan health care think tank says the organization is trying to play both sides. >> they walk a very tight line between an insurance company wanting to make money, a membership organization wanting to serve the needs of its membership and a highly politicized organization that is trying to say the right things and not take sides. sometimes when you straddle a fence, you sit on a pike. >> reporter: a recent cnn opinion research poll shows american under 50 support obama's plan. while a majority of those over the age of 50 oppose it. some aarp members in texas were vocal at their opposition. >> aarp is not ours. >> stand up and take the government back. >> reporter: aarp says it has held many other town hall meetings that did not have such disruptions. aarp says its approaching health care reform strictly from the

standpoint of how it can approve the quality of life for older americans, saying it's working with both political parties and the white house on health care reform. lou? >> thank you very much. joining me from washington, d.c., political editor of the washington examiner, chris stir wall. and in new york, former assistant to both president george w. bush and vormer vice president dick cheney and hank shine cough. let's take a look at a woman at the meeting of senator car den of maryland and what she had to say to the senator. >> your government has lost the faith and trust of the american people. this government is out of control. we are in debt up to our

eyeballs, and you all are doing nothing but putting more debt on us and our children. and it's got to stop. what are you going to do about it? >> there are some who would argue that woman put forward, straightforwardly, the question that has not been asked throughout this entire debate by our elected officials. >> i think she's absolutely right, lou. it goes back to what the government did at the end of the bush administration with the bailout of fannie mae and freddy back, spending billions for a stimulus package. i think people around the country are angry. they're saying we have to watch our wall let's. we have to watch our pocketbooks. why is washington spending so much money and now seeking to impose a new health care regime that will impact 1/6 of the american economy so quickly. >> hank, democratic strategist, you are one of the best. this administration is acting as if those questions that woman asked don't pertain to the national health care initiative of this president.

is that good political strategy? is it effective strategy? >> it seems not to be effective at the moment. frankly, this thing has gotten way out of hand, lou. that woman asked the appropriate questions. the administration doesn't answer them. it's too much being shoved at people too soon, too quickly with a congress that can't seem to answer the questions directly. what we need is clear answers to questions that will make people like that woman who pay the taxes and who will be beneficiaries of the health care reform plan, we have to explain things better. that's part of what's going on here. >> do you agree, chris? >> 100%. i think that's exactly what's going on. the administration outsmarted itself in an effort not to repeat the clinton administration with health care. they decided to leave it as an open question. that's why they were so eager to have this very short time frame for passing the legislation. it has backfired spectacularly. right now the president is out trying to sell a nonexistent plan.

and in that open space, all the concerns and fears about people, about all the subjects including the national deficit and the national debt come flooding into that open space. >> hank, the president and his press secretary had to acknowledge a misspeak i guess is the way to put it. at the time he's talking about misrepresentation in that very speech, is this simply going to put further weight on sinking poll numbers for this president? >> it's going to be hard to get change done. any successful president has broken with the past administration, created his own way and taken on congress when necessary. the scholars are clear about that. the problem is his agenda is too ambitious for the amount of time he's been in office. people are nervous about it. >> we'll find out about nervous folks. we'll continue with our panel in the one moment. we'll be right back. ♪

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we're back now with our panel. i want to take a little turn

here. we've seen some signs. nancy pelosi talking about swasticas and congressman cook with a swastica on a sign for his office. his district office. we've seen at some town hall meetings signs that predict president obama -- let's show some of this, if we may, to our audience and the panel. it's reminiscent to many of them as a rhetoric that associate -- ron, i suspect you remember this with demonstrations against the war in iraq. how different is that we've gotten to this level over the course of, really, the last four to perhaps five years, in this country, where this is the kind of nonsense that going on for both the left and the right, attacking both republican president and a democratic president. >> i think there's a lot of money involved in politics right now. and i think a lot of the people around the country are saying the system is out of control. you have people raising millions of dollars.

you have people who are being organized and coming to these events with these very inflammatory signs. but i also think it's a sign that people are fed up with what's going on in washington. the sense that people in washington around listening to them. i don't agree with the signs. but i do agree if i write letters to my congressman, if i call they're not responsive, i have to do something to get my voice heard. i think that's what it's reflective of. >> chris? >> i think he's right. the conversation you're seeing on the periphery is a moveerule expression. >> the associated press publishing a story today about a report on anti-government militia groups brought to you by the southern poverty law center. the link to the story, if i may, and this is interesting, i won't

read the whole thing. "militia groups with gripes across the country are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends. the stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise." this is from the associated press. "the report from the southern poverty law center says, conspiracy theories about a secret mexican plan --" blah, blah, blah. i ask each of you to take a look at the story for independent judgment. what is your opinion, first of the reporting of the associated press and the southern poverty law center? >> we need to be careful what we read to. the second taken with no facts, frankly, is very dangerous. now, this may in fact be a trend but there's nothing in there to skate any factual data. that's just wait it is. it's simple. >> ron? >> i agree, there are a lot of people around the country that

with the first african-american president, people are reacting to that. we need to make sure it's based in fact and not rhetoric. i think it's a very irresponsible report. >> chris? >> well, look southern poverty law center has its own agenda to push. that's what they're supposed to do. they're supposed to pursue heir own interests. part of them it scaring people. my beef is with the associated press. that's my concern here. the main channel who are supposed to be unbiased news in the united states is putting stuff out there. that's what gives me pause. not the southern poverty law center. >> yeah. >> and free speech. exactly, the southern poverty law center has right. we may not agree with it. empathically not in many cases. but the associated press, my god, an independent news organization, a storied news organization, not its brightest moment. gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate you all being with us. thank you very much, ron, thank you very much, hank.

coming up at the top of the hour, campbell brown. campbell? >> hey, there, lou. we're going to keep fact-checking the debates made in the debate. and the growing outrage after passengers are trapped on the ground for nearly seven hours. why we'll still waiting for a passengers' bill of rights. plus, an incredible story, this tv anchor accused of killing drug dealers to boost his ratings. we've got the top stories plus our "mashup-" lou. >> we appreciate it. we'll riebt back. (announcer) illness doesn't care where you live...

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