enlt see and it's a problem. when it's in your family, it can often be ignored precisely because you don't want to admit the reality. >> we've got to leave it there. thank you for coming in. i'm sitting in for larry king. let's go in for anderson cooper. health care reform would lead to government debt panels for the disabled or the elderly? today, a key republican senator said you should worry about the government pulling a plug on grandma. and senator chairman of the republican party michael steele. we have other own sanjay gupta. but, first, c candy crowley. >> senator chuck grassley holds

his second town hall meeting of the year. >> we're here at a time when i fear that people are scared for our country. >> town hall has been sometimes two, three times bigger than in previous years. so many hands in the air and so many cross burns. >> i need to know what are you doing to these insurance companies that are putting ne g everything in their pocket and laughing at everybody else. >> so we can cover the people whop want coverage with a private policy cheaper. >> making his way through the questions festering in the iowa countryside, grassly is really in a mind field. why does he sip port cuts in medicare? he doesn't. will he support a plan with a government insurance option? no. and about those so called death panels, they say it will put the government in the ut eat nash

sha business. . >> i don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family. we should not have a a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on grandma. >> put him down as not on target, the program inserted in the house bill would allow federal reimbursement to doctors who give end of life counseling to medicare patients who want it. critics say the counseling may become coercive. grassly has a reputation as being conservative. he works now trying to come up with a middle ground bill. a capitol hill lawmaker for 35 years, he is up for re-election next year, about which he is reminded daily. >> democrat or republican, for whoever senator, congressman, we will vote you out. >> the senator threads his way between his core constituents, angry that he's trying -- >> there is nothing and no one that i would agree to and we

have to stop getting ground. >> reporter: and others who have voted for him for three decades angry that he's not trying hard enough. >> i want to ask you why you won won't use your strong republican voice to clarify the outright lies that are out there about the programs that are being proposed. at days end he was in his 75th town hall meeting of the year. >> only got 16 more town hall meetings. so i don't want to draw a conclusion from four town hall meetings. >> august may not be the cruelest month but it's going to seem like the longest one. >> so, is he standing by the program of possibly pulling the plug on grandma? >> he softened just a little when he talked with reporters and said do i think that this provision will do what i fear it will do? not necessarily, no i don't.

but i think it's necessary that we look at it. he doesn't believe that there should be a program that pays for this. but that the federal government should not pay for this kind of counseling. i have to tell you, though, i also talked to a couple of doctors and some nurses who said well, medicare pays for. senator grassley backed off a little but he didn't back off what was the central fear for people of which was a youth nash sha panel. senator grassley may have fueled the death penalty. on the other hand, strongly opposing the democratic became, he said there's no reason to make things up. other parties have tried to tap down the program.

listen to clair mccaskill. >> i honestly don't get it. do you all think that you're persuading people when you shout out like that? you don't trust me? i don't know what else i can do. if you want me to go home -- >> senator mccaskill joins us now. he's supporting what they say about the death penalties. >> isakson from georgia wrote the provision that went into the panel and so the patient and

family are in charge. it has nothing to do with the government having any control. it's the opposite. it's about the government reimbursing doctors for taking the time to explain the different procedures, to help with any kind of directive. not to take over. so it's so ironic that senator grassley has got that part confused because his fellow republicans from georgia who put it in the bill on the senate side. >> do you think he's confused or is something else at work here? >> you know, listen. i think that there are many provisions of this bill and i think everyone needs to slow down and take time to study it carefully. because if you do, so much of the misinformation goes away. and this is a big, ji jent piece of information. >> i assume it's fair to say you've never seen this kind of information what you call rudeness or anger in a public forum like this. i want to read you what paul wrote. he said that what some are reacting to is more about president obama than what is really in these various health

care plans. he said, and i quote, the driving force behind the town hall mobs, his word, is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety which denies mr. obama citizenship. does race play a role in this? there was a person at one of your town halls, a rosa parks poster. apparently somebody ripped it up. a scuffle ensued. is race involved in this? >> i don't know. i think that there are certain folks that don't trust government and they haven't trusted government for a long time and i think we've done a lot of big, bold things in the last six months at a time of uncertainty. people are confused. what is the different between the stimulus and omnibus and a t.a.r.p. and i think all of that rolled up in addition to having a new president that they did not support i think has lead to a heightened sense of passion. but i think it's all within the

confines of our democracy and we may be exercising the muscles of democracy. but that's okay. that's what this is about. people being able to express their opinions. >> an african-american said that race is involved, and the subtext for this debate. for the record, do you see any indication of that? >> i think that's irresponsible to say, also. there may be an individual incident of that but there are a whole lot of people who are frustrated, cynical, and angry and i'm not sure if it would be accurate to make that about race. this agreement yesterday was more because somebody broke the rules and brought in a sign when nobody else was allowed to bring in a sign and they were flaunting it and it angered people and passions got out of control. there was certainly a little bit of wrongdoing if they knew they weren't supposed to have them and certainly wrongdoing on the part of the gentlemen who ripped it out of her hand.

>> so there's no indication of rosa parks or the president or the poster? >> i don't think that had anything to do with what was on the poster. it had to do with everyone -- we had 2500 people there and they all were struck with big signs of people that said you can't bring in that. >> i'm glad you pointed that out because it's certainly something being played on liberal blogs that it was a rosa parks poster and that there was significance in that. you don't think there was a snigs. >> don't think that was the problem. things got angry and a little out of control. but we went for two hours and there was that little incident. there was some rudeness but by and large we got through it and we were able to exchange some ideas. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> show shortage of the debate online. join the live chat. also tonight, getting beyond

the sound and fury. talking with protestors about their legitimate concerns and some lawmakers take some time. later, the hate-fuel mall lish sha. mark is author of this new report. check your questions to ac360 or 22360 and remember standard rates aplay. apply. this is my verizon small business specialist, tom. now, i know the catering business but when i walked in here i wasn't sure what i needed. i'm not sure what i need. tom showed me how to use mifi to get my whole team working online, on location. i was like, "woah". woah ! only verizon wireless has small business specialists in every store to help you do business better. you're like my secret ingredient. come in today and connect up to five devices on one 3g connection.

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your government has lost the faith and trust of the american people. >> i think that the obama administration is already started to restore trust in the health care. >> senator claire mccaskill and list ten to both sides of the debate. tom foreman takes us there. >> reporter: another day, another angry public meeting.

this one at a community college in hagerstown, maryland. >> this government is out of control. >> senator cardin is pushing for control. >> i can assure you i'm not going to push for any bill that will cut off care to someone in need of care. >> reporter: and in the audience, mark is just as intent on pushing back. >> how are you going to look at my children and say that they have a better future? >> reporter: chris calls himself an independent who votes mostly republican. he organized one of the anti-tax tea parties. he questions the constitutional right of congress to enact such a reform but that it means

mainly tax bills for families for decades. >> it's disappointing to me that i'm -- i'm just an average guy. >> if we go the way it's going to go, the way it's going now, i've heard a trillion for health care legislation, it's not really going to be a trillion dollars. it's going to be a lot more than that. >> back in the meeting, senator cardin presses on. even to people who polled say that they are most against this reform, he says, have falth. >> faith. >> i think that the obama administration has already restored trust in the health care system by me. >> reporter: afterwards, he's not sure that he changed any minds. >> i think there will be a more open mind in considering the legislation. >> but mark doubts that and just about everything else he is hearing on this subject. >> i don't believe much of the congress these days. >> what about the president? >> i don't believe most of the

presidents, what they say. i think they are politicians fundamentally and i think this is what all of my friends are thinking, too. >> so the meeting came and went and for mark's reform t. remain as dangerous gamble. called for ben cardin, it remains the same bet. hagerstown, maryland. up next, are there going to be death panels that can pull the plug on grandma? sanjay gupta separates the fact from fiction.

the debate over health care reform seems to get louder every day. here at 360 we're committed to cut through the noise and sort through facts and fiction.

sanjay, let's start with one of the most inflammatory charges that we've been hearing from critics of the house bill provision that would pay for end of life counseling, a bill that call it is an advanced counseling provision. critics calling it a death panel. you've heard senator grassley appearing to endorse that view and candy crowley said that he was back pedaling a little bit. what does it actually spell out? >> i'm probably going to get e-mails about this. i'm going to say that death panel is probably a hyperbole. it's so far out of left field, i'm not quite sure how to context you'llize it. they are specifically looking at this idea of a medical professional and a senior sitting down and talking about all sorts of things. living wills, different provisions. they want certain measures taken near the time of death. all of these sorts of things,

which sometimes happen during routine office visits but sometimes don't. sometimes they are misunderstood and sometimes they are not acted upon. so i think that's what they are talking about here. having said that, anderson, we've been doing a lot of research in this particular issue. one thing that comes out, this came out of an article in the medical association. what is the point of having this discussion, here are your options during the end of your life? what this article concluded is that people who have a discussion like that plan to be less aggressive with their care. so that may be the idea of where they call death panel is coming from. >> it's interesting to hear the criticism that people are concerned about that. >> and that gets to the idea of

this issue and rationing sort of overall. people say, is there going to be ration care and i can tell you that as a practicing physician, as someone who deals with this on a daily basis, rationing does occur all the time. at the clinic i get all of the paperwork that basically says, justify why you're doing such and such a procedure and justify why you're orderingsing such a death. if the justification is not adequate, they say that's not going to be covered which is, in essence, what rationing is. so it does occur, much to your point, anderson. >> yesterday president obama said yesterday in new hampshire that caused a lot of controversy. >> another myth that we've been hearing about is that we're going to cut your medicare benefits. aarp would not endorse a bill

that would undercut senior citizens. >> and what he said is aarp are not endorsing this bill. indications that we've endorsed this bill is inaccurate. robert gibbs, press secretary of the white house was asked about it today. he said that the president misspoke. so if aarp isn't endorsing the legislation, why not? do they endorse legislation on other issues? >> we've investigated this, i think pretty fully. let me break it down as much as possible. they say that they wasn't health care reform. they guarantee that access of health care should be made available to everybody. remember who the constituency is. it has to do with around the generic versus brand-name drugs. the big concern is that there's not enough in this legislation n. this house bill specifically. the senate bill is still being debated. there's not enough to specifically bring brand name drugs to generic.

they think that profit should take place a lot faster. and i think if there was specific legislation around that, then this is probably going to get their engors dorsment. it's not there yet, at least not to their satisfaction. >> sanjay, thank you for being here. still ahead, the return of right wing militia. erica? president obama is be stoeing the highest military honor in 15 men and women. billie jean king, sandra day o'connor, sidney pointier. in nigeria, hillary clinton appeared at a town hall meeting democracyi talking about democracy.

>> our democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in the past elections, as you might remember. we have our problems, too. in london, a jewelry heist. we showed you the video. a 50-year-old man arrested on monday is already released pending investigation. it's unclear whether he's one of the two robbers who was described as armed and dangerous showing fleeing in those photos which was released yesterday. >> you know, shoot, i haven't seen that video. >> $65 million worth. >> that's unbelievable that they got away. next, the fight for afghanistan and the surge is on the rise. we'll talk to michael wehr and

militias in danger. internet recruiting videos on the rise. why and where the threat exists.

today, fierce fighting as hundreds of u.s. and afghan soldiers move in to protect the citizens. insurgents have vowed to disrupt the votes and now a national

security analyst is peter better again. the deadliest month? >> yes. >> how tough is this going to be just to pull off the election? >> well, i think the election will take place. president obama's enjoy said, you know, there's going to be problems. you've got the security issues, you've got corruption and already had election observers or workers killed. i think nine have been killed already. there's going to be area where is essentially people will not be able to vote. there may be disenfranchising. by the way, it's not going to be a pretty picture but i think it will work its way to some kind of different outcome. >> did the election make much of a difference in terms of success on the ground militarily? >> in terms of the war, yes and no. in a direct way, no. but in a grand entrance, the

longest strategy, yes. it's about trying to create a government that the afghans can actually turn to. because it's instilling a government enforces in place that will provide the security in both in terms of -- >> that's a knock on karzai, that he's just a mayor of kabul. >> it's always been a country with afghanistan. it's an entirely different place. karzai lacks the ability to inject essential power into the region. but it's difficult to have an essential government in the country. >> when you lived in karzai, could you understand anything that people will saying? >> not exactly. >> we're trying to go to peter bergen but we'll be assuring you

back to said and made interesting comments. here's a little bit about what he said. >> i would say this. in the simple sense, we will know it when we see it. >> that aside, it seems like the obama administration is trying to change the information about what success is. trying to gradually scale it down. you don't hear about democracy and -- >> as i'm sure they should. >> it's preventing al qaeda. >> and the bush administration set up the track and as we saw in iraq, let's face it. you're not going to have a glimmering model of democracy. in south asia, in kabul.

it's never going to be something perfect. so -- and we've got to remember, too. look this really isn't a humanitarian megs. america did not go to afghanistan for al true wis sick and national security interest. that's going to have to be the goal of the campaign. and so how is the fight going? i mean, early on we heard from u.s. commanders on the ground and saying, look, there's not enough afghan troops in this. >> there's not. they are doubling the size of the afghan army. as i last saw it, it was a hodge podge of different foot soldiers from different world wars. and when i last saw them, he actually lies to the back home. so this is going to be difficult. it's true, the momentum right now is the taliban and in a war

like this, if you are not winning, you are almost losing. america may not lose it but they may not win it. the true victory, it's going to have to come with some kind of a functioning system, a decentralized system. >> u.s. commanders say there's not a true military system. >> and they did right. sorry to pardon the pump but they did right. the solution is not going to be in the trenches. you've got to cut deals. >> a lot of folks working very hard right now fighting the trenches. michael ware, appreciate it. again, we tried to steb michael bergen. >> a quick report, a report on the in depth look at the islam city, even showing how one

religious school is invited to join the taliban. take a look at -- >> you will find my body in little pieces, since one little boy in this propaganda video. it's targeting children celebrating suicide. the taliban recruits it's youngsterss on the taliban border. >> my dad was teaching me a couple pages of the koran and then he couldn't do it so he sent me to madrasa. >> when he was just 10 years old, free education they didn't realize what else they had in store for him. >> i was studying when i visited the koran and they said that i

should commit a suicide attack and i said no, i am not going, he forced me. >> it airs at 9:00 eastern tomorrow. a live chat is happening right now. talk to other viewers watching the program in america and around the world? just ahead, extreme right-wing militias on the rise. the only thing missing is this far. mark potoc, author of the new report, test your questions to ac360. remember, standard rates apply. plus, five young women murdered and their bodies found along the same road. four women are missing and police are scrambling to solve the case. put them together... and you get 0tntrum cardio. the first and only complete multivitamin... that can lower cholesterol. centrum cardio.

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the man accused of killing abortion doctor tiller sits tonight in jail. they are trying to figure out if

he's part of a larger conspiracy. he's had a steady stream of visitors, and a list has recently surfaced. one of the people who knows him best is his ex-wife and she talks about the man she has changed to someone she no longer recognizes. >> reporter: lindsay roberts married scott roder and their lives have remained intertwined. but the man she married has long scared her are. >> did you think in the years going by that your ex-husband was capable of murdering a doctor who provided abortions? >> yes. >> reporter: she never could have imagined the downward spiral that her life would take. >> were you in love when you got married? >> yes. >> reporter: do you still love him? >> i love this guy i married. >> reporter: this is the man she divorced. lindsay did not want to see her

ex-husband in person in wichita, so she watched the preliminary hearing in the kansas city area where she lives. >> it's not a nightmare. it's life. it's true. >> reporter: over the years she saw her once stable husband becoming unglued and she filed for divorce after ten years. they stayed in touch because their sonic las was just 22. a year later when he was stopped with explosives in his car, lindsay warned investigators that he was dangerous. she was horrified when he was arrested but not shocked when he was arrested for the murder of tiller. two weeks after the arrest, she received this letter. >> my guess is that i will never hear back from you because that character was being the grown up spoiled brat that you are. but my true concern is with our sonic las. i'm afraid he's becoming or already become a spoiled brat

such as yourself. if you're an adult, you'll respond. if you're a slow brat, you won't. >> reporter: lindsay who says she was emotionally abused by scott rooder did not respond. >> what would you say to him? >> reporter: scott, you had no right to take another person's life. you're not god. you're not a judge. you're not a jury. you say that you are protecting the unborn, that you did it for the children. that you were justified. if you did it for the children, why did i have to fight for years to get child support to care for nicholas? if you did it for the children, if you did it for a children,

why would you pick a death sentence for nicholas? >> hopes and dreams demolished so completely. >> so if scott rooder was fueled by rage, as his wife claims, he's certainly not alone. a new research shows a sharp rise in the vie -- especially in the midwest, pacific northwest, as well as the deep south. people drawn to these groups share a hatred of paying taxes, a suspicion of anything that the government does, and an african-american man as president. why do you think there's been an increase in militia activity since the beginning of the year. >> as you suggest in the intro, it really has a lot to do with the rise of the power of a black man. for these people, for this movement in general, the prime enemy is the government, the federal government. that was true then and it's true today but the big difference is that the face of the federal

government is the face of a black man. so i'm not suggesting that all militias and all people involved in this movement or ideology are really changesman secretly but it's a movement far from what we saw in the '90s. >> you're saying race is a much bigger factor this time around? and you're seeing this in the rhetoric? >> in the rhetoric and the kinds of issues that they really take on. you know, it's really quite clear. you know, one thing you hear a lot, again, not certainly from all people of this movement but for a great many of them is a lot of worrying, angst, over the idea that in 2042, white american also lose their majority in this country. so that's the very visible rise of power of obama. it's continuing at relatively high rates of nonwhite immigration and central america. you know, all of those things are a part of this.

certainly there are other aspects that are much similar, much more similar to what happened in the '90s. a real worry about gun control and the new world order coming in and taking all. >> in the '90s, there were all classes of people. there were studies that showed that pretty plainly, it was not thick with lawyers and doctors and so on but really you had people from each kind of demographic. i think that's probably less true today. i think that it's a phenomena but really only a sense it's hard to say and only detailed

stud die. we look at this movement and see an organized movement of a lot of different groups and the fact is that they are able to communicate and to transmit ideology and in fact to make plans in terms of simply meetings and rallies and other events. very easily. so that has been a great boost to them. >> and how many of these groups are talkers? ultimately they don't amount to much? >> well, i think a lot of them are essentially just talkers, but talk is not always completely benign. i think we're seeing that right

now in the town hall meetings and so on. i think the talk is mall lig nant when they talk about commentators who really reiterate against the authority to the completely false ideas of propaganda of these groups. so you know what i'm saying is there a is poisoning of the mainstream political discourse. instead of talking about health care, we're talking about death pa panels and that kind of thing. >> mark potok, thank you very much. go to ac360.com to get a list of plots, conspiracies, and rampages since the oklahoma bombing. coming up next, a serial killer on the loose? someone is getting away with murder along one quiet road. why is it taking so long to catch the murderer?

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tonight a story out of north carolina, the remains of women found on seven bridges road. police believe their murders may be related. three other women are missing. authorities are scrambling for

clues and the murders could be the work of a serial killer. david has the latest in the report. >> if someone were looking for a place to get away with murder in north carolina, the seven bridges road might be the place to go. >> nothing but trees and pastures. >> reporter: since the 2005, remains of african-american women and suspected prostitutes have been found here among miles of woods and crops. there are a number of places that you could pull off here. you could just drive off and disappear in the woods in a matter of seconds. sadly, that's what has been happening to these women. they disappear never be seen alive again. >> is this the work of a serial killer? >> yes, i believe it is. the fact that the bodies have been found close together would argue for a serial killer. >> michael was once a states top forensic psychologist and believes that the killer is someone who could have a lot in

common. >> their economic background, same race, i think it's a person that could fit very easily within the environment. >> reporter: all of the victims were last seen in the town of rocky mountain. we went to where they came from, an area where prostitutes work neighborhood streets. >> typically this is the area. >> reporter: but we found the streets deserted, cleared by fear. prostitutes are easy targets for killers, living fragile lives of society's fringe's. still, it shouldn't have taken years for the town to take notice. >> is it just a matter of race? >> i think it's a combination of both. >> a turning point in public awareness and the investigation itself was the fifth victim. jarnice known to her friends as sunshine, friends and family publicly demanded justice. local authorities asked the fbi

to assist. like the other victims, she disappeared from rocky mount. her body was found off seven bridges road. from the streets of rocky mount, it's only about a 15-plin drive to get to places just like this. for all practical purposes, it's the middle of nowhere and this is where investigators say that the victims are being killed. they won't give us a lot of details, but two of the victims were strangled and one was stabbed and beaten. three other, rocky mount women police say are not prostitutes are currently missing. they call this a critical time in the investigation. leading many to hope that this road will soon lead to a killer. david mattingly, cnn, north carolina. still ahead, a no hold's bar for crime show host winning the time slot.

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now for some of the stories that we're following tonight, erica hill. nearly swept to his death in the raging waters following a massive he typhoon, he tried to cross the river to get the remains of a people tell on the other side. luckily he was pulled to safety. hundreds mourned were rescued. and villages in taiwan and more than 100 people are confirmed dead. alaska governor sarah palin, her approval ratings down 7 points from may. that poll was taken before her recent comments claiming provisions of health care reform were the result of a death panel. another tribute in the works for michael jackson in austria on the grounds of a 17th century palace.

no word, though, on who is going to perform. and murder for ratings. that's the crime show host who is also a legislator under suss spigs of commissioning five murders to improve ratings. his attorney has said that a number of interviews that there's no evidence to prove this. >> wow. that's crazy. >> it's a crazy story. his son is part of it, according to the police. you can't make it up. >> all right. still ahead, everyone's favorite atlanta housewife. she stopped by and had a message or two. i'm not sure what she said. i'm eager to see. and at the top of the hour, town hall politicians. senators on both sides making heat. (announcer) illness doesn't care where you live...

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i'm going to take over the shots tonight because, frankly, ac -- >> thank you for so eagerly filling in for me. >> my pleasure. >> do you keep the room so icy cold. >> no, i didn't. i said, let's turn up the heat while you were gone, i thought this will be great for anderson. so we thought that maybe we'd choose one of the staff favorites to share with you. we found this on the entertainment weekly pop watch block. take a look. >> i love anderson cooper. he's very handsome. sometimes i watch the news and sometimes i just watch him. >> he loves you, too. >> yeah. i heard that he loves me and i love him. so muah. >> which know that they can't get enough of her. the love fest continues.

stop by cnn.com. she's got a new book and she was there to talk about it but she also had to take a little quiz. >> bradley or anderson cooper. >> anderson cooper. that's my baby. how did you know that? >> he said it before. he said that he's in favor of the housewives. >> have you sat down to starbucks? >> we have not sat down at starbucks. he was away swimming with the sharks so gail king called in instead. >> was that a good substitute? >> how about that, throwing you under the bus there. >> oh, well. maybe we'll meet one day. who knows. >> is that all you got in. >> that's all i've got for now. you can go to ac360.com.

at the top of the hour, health care reform. president obama just praised the other day and now telling people that they have a right to be scared. we'll be right back.

remember sarah palin's allegation of the power to euthanize and if you think it was discredited? a key republican senator said you should worry about the government pulling the plug on grandma. and it wasn't just senator governor chuck grassley. so did michael steele. we'll get reaction from another key senator in just a moment and check the facts with sanjay gupta. but, first, candy crowley.

>> reporter: his town halls have been twice as big as they were in previous years. so many hands in the air and so many cross turns. >> i need to know what you are doing to these insurance companies putting everything in their pocket and laughing at everybody else. >> we can cover people cheaper. >> making their way through the questions festering in the iowa countryside, he's really in a mine field. why does he support cuts in medicare? he doesn't. will he support a plan with a government-run insurance option? no. and about those so-called death panels, a term critics used that they say will put the government

in the ut asia business. >> i don't have a problem with things like living wills, but we should not have a government program pitting him down not on program, the house bill would allow federal reimbursement to doctors that give end of life counseling to medicare patients that want it. krit takes say it may become coerce sif. grassly has a reputation of a senate republicans and democrats with a middle ground bill. a capitol hill lawmaker for 35 years, he is up for re-election next year, about which he is reminded daily. >> democrat or republican, for whoever senator, congressman, we will vote you out.

>> the senator threads his way between his core constituents, angry that he's trying -- >> there is nothing and no one that i would agree to and we have to stop getting ground. >> reporter: and others who have voted for him for three decades angry that he's not trying hard enough. >> i want to ask you why you won't use your strong republican voice to clarify the outright lies that are out there about the programs that are being proposed. >> reporter: at days end he was in his 75th town hall meeting of the year. >> only got 16 more town hall meetings. so i don't want to draw a conclusion from four town hall meetings. >> august may not be the coolest month but it's going to seem like the longest one. >> so, candy, is he standing by those comments, the government program possibly pulling the plug on grandma? >> he softened just a little when he talked with reporters and said do i think that this provision will do what i fear it will do? not necessarily, no i don't.

but i think it's necessary that we look at it. he doesn't believe that there should be a program that pays for this. but that the federal government should not pay for this kind of counseling. i have to tell you, though, i also talked to a couple of doctors and some nurses who said well, medicare pays for. senator grassley backed off a little but he didn't back off what was the central fear for people of which was a euthanasia panel. senator grassley may have fueled the death penalty. on the other hand, strongly opposing the democratic became, he said there's no reason to make things up. other parties have tried to tap down the program.

listen to clair mccaskill. >> i honestly don't get it. do you all think that you're persuading people when you shout out like that? you don't trust me? i don't know what else i can do. if you want me to go home -- >> senator mccaskill joins us now. he's supporting what they say about the death penalties. >> isakson from georgia wrote the provision that went into the panel and so the patient and

family are in charge. it has nothing to do with the government having any control. it's the opposite. it's about the government reimbursing doctors for taking the time to explain the different procedures, to help with any kind of directive. not to take over. so it's so ironic that senator grassley has got that part confused because his fellow republicans from georgia who put it in the bill on the senate side. >> do you think he's confused or is something else at work here? >> you know, listen. i think that there are many provisions of this bill and i think everyone needs to slow down and take time to study it carefully. because if you do, so much of the misinformation goes away. and this is a big, giant piece of information.

>> i assume it's fair to say you've never seen this kind of information what you call rudeness or anger in a public forum like this. i want to read you what paul wrote. he said that what some are reacting to is more about president obama than what is really in these various health care plans. he said, and i quote, the driving force behind the town hall mobs, his word, is probably the same cultural and racial anxiety which denies mr. obama citizenship. does race play a role in this? there was a person at one of your town halls, a rosa parks poster. apparently somebody ripped it up. a scuffle ensued. is race involved in this? >> i don't know. i think that there are certain folks that don't trust government and they haven't trusted government for a long time and i think we've done a lot of big, bold things in the

last six months at a time of uncertainty. people are confused. what is the different between the stimulus and omnibus and a t.a.r.p. and i think all of that rolled up in addition to having a new president that they did not support i think has lead to a heightened sense of passion. but i think it's all within the confines of our democracy and we may be exercising the muscles of democracy. but that's okay. that's what this is about. people being able to express their opinions. >> an african-american said that race is involved, and the subtext for this debate. for the record, do you see any indication of that? >> i think that's irresponsible to say, also. there may be an individual incident of that but there are a whole lot of people who are frustrated, cynical, and angry and i'm not sure if it would be accurate to make that about race. this agreement yesterday was more because somebody broke the rules and brought in a sign when nobody else was allowed to bring in a sign and they were

flaunting it and it angered people and passions got out of control. there was certainly a little bit of wrongdoing if they knew they weren't supposed to have them and certainly wrongdoing on the part of the gentlemen who ripped it out of her hand. >> so there's no indication of rosa parks or the president or the poster? >> i don't think that had anything to do with what was on the poster. it had to do with everyone -- we had 2500 people there and they all were struck with big signs of people that said you can't bring in that. >> i'm glad you pointed that out because it's certainly something being played on liberal blogs that it was a rosa parks poster and that there was significance in that. you don't think there was a significance? >> don't think that was the problem. things got angry and a little out of control. but we went for two hours and there was that little incident. there was some rudeness but by and large we got through it and we were able to exchange some ideas. >> i appreciate your time.

thank you. >> thank you. >> show shortage of the debate online. join the live chat. also tonight, getting beyond the sound and fury. talking with protestors about their legitimate concerns and some lawmakers take some time. later, the hateful malitia. mark is author of this new report. check your questions to ac360 or 22360 and remember standard 22360 and remember standard rates apply. ering a solutioner standard rates apply. for a customer that maybe has to choose between paying their credit card or putting food on the table. our main objective is to reach out to the customers that are falling behind on their payments. a lot of customers are proud and happy that bank of america actually has a solution to help them out. i listen. that's the first thing i do is i listen. you know what, what happened? what put you in this situation?

we always want to make sure that we're doing i'll go through some of his monthly expenses, if he has a mortgage payment, if he pays rent. and then i'll use all that information to try and see what kind of a payment he financially can handle. i want to help you. bank of america wants to help you through this difficult time. when they come to you and they say thank you aj, for helping me with this problem, that's where we get our joy from.

your government has lost the faith and trust of the american people. >> i think that the obama administration is already started to restore trust in the health care. >> senator claire mccaskill and

listen to both sides of the debate. tom foreman takes us there. >> reporter: another day, another angry public meeting. this one at a community college in hagerstown, maryland. >> this government is out of control. >> senator cardin is pushing for control. >> i can assure you i'm not going to push for any bill that will cut off care to someone in need of care. >> reporter: and in the audience, mark is just as intent

on pushing back. >> how are you going to look at my children and say that they have a better future? >> reporter: chris calls himself an independent who votes mostly republican. he organized one of the anti-tax t.e.a. parties. he questions the constitutional right of congress to enact such a reform but that it means mainly tax bills for families for decades. >> it's disappointing to me that i'm -- i'm just an average guy. >> if we go the way it's going to go, the way it's going now, i've heard a trillion for health care legislation, it's not really going to be a trillion dollars. it's going to be a lot more than

that. >> back in the meeting, senator cardin presses on. even to people who polled say that they are most against this reform, he says, have faith. >> faith. >> i think that the obama administration has already restored trust in the health care system by me. >> reporter: afterwards, he's not sure that he changed any minds. >> i think there will be a more open mind in considering the legislation. >> but mark doubts that and just about everything else he is hearing on this subject. >> i don't believe much of the congress these days. >> what about the president? >> i don't believe most of the presidents, what they say. i think they are politicians fundamentally and i think this is what all of my friends are thinking, too. >> so the meeting came and went and for mark's reform t. remain as dangerous gamble.

called for ben cardin, it remains the same bet. hagerstown, maryland. up next, are there going to be death panels that can pull the plug on grandma? sanjay gupta separates the fact from fiction. the debate over health care reform seems to get louder every day. here at 360 we're committed to cut through the noise and sort through facts and fiction. sanjay, let's start with one of

the debate over health care reform seems to get louder every day. here at 360 we're committed to cut through the noise and sort through facts and fiction. sanjay, let's start with one of the most inflammatory charges that we've been hearing from critics of the house bill provision that would pay for end of life counseling, a bill that

calls it an advanced counseling provision. critics calling it a death panel. you've heard senator grassley appearing to endorse that view and candy crowley said that he was back pedaling a little bit. what does it actually spell out? >> i'm probably going to get e-mails about this. i'm going to say that death panel is probably a hyperbole. it's so far out of left field, i'm not quite sure how to context you'llize it. they are specifically looking at this idea of a medical professional and a senior sitting down and talking about all sorts of things. living wills, different provisions. they want certain measures taken near the time of death. all of these sorts of things, which sometimes happen during routine office visits but sometimes don't. sometimes they are misunderstood and sometimes they are not acted upon. so i think that's what they are talking about here. having said that, anderson, we've been doing a lot of research in this particular issue. one thing that comes out, this came out of an article in the medical association.

what is the point of having this discussion, here are your options during the end of your life? what this article concluded is that people who have a discussion like that plan to be less aggressive with their care. so that may be the idea of where they call death panel is coming from. >> it's interesting to hear the criticism that people are concerned about that. >> and that gets to the idea of this issue and rationing sort of overall. people say, is there going to be ration care and i can tell you that as a practicing physician, as someone who deals with this on a daily basis, rationing does occur all the time. at the clinic i get all of the paperwork that basically says, justify why you're doing such and such a procedure and justify why you're orderingsing such a

death. if the justification is not adequate, they say that's not going to be covered which is, in essence, what rationing is. so it does occur, much to your point, anderson. >> yesterday president obama said yesterday in new hampshire that caused a lot of controversy. >> another myth that we've been hearing about is that we're going to cut your medicare

benefits. aarp would not endorse a bill that would undercut senior citizens. >> and what he said is aarp are not endorsing this bill. indications that we've endorsed this bill is inaccurate. robert gibbs, press secretary of the white house was asked about it today. he said that the president misspoke. so if aarp isn't endorsing the legislation, why not? do they endorse legislation on other issues? >> we've investigated this, i think pretty fully. let me break it down as much as possible. they say that they want health care reform. they guarantee that access of health care should be made available to everybody. remember who the constituency is. it has to do with around the generic versus brand-name drugs. the big concern is that there's not enough in this legislation n. this house bill specifically. the senate bill is still being debated. there's not enough to specifically bring brand name drugs to generic. they think that profit should take place a lot faster. and i think if there was specific legislation around that, then this is probably

going to get their endorsement. it's not there yet, at least not to their satisfaction. >> sanjay, thank you for being here. still ahead, the return of right wing militia. erica? first, erica hill. >> anderson, president obama be stoeing the highest military honor in 15 men and women. billie jean king, sandra day o'connor, sidney pointier and senator ed kennedy. in nigeria, hillary clinton appeared at a town hall meeting talking about democracy. >> our democracy is still evolving. we had all kinds of problems in the past elections, as you might remember. we have our problems, too. in london, a jewelry heist. we showed you the video. a 50-year-old man arrested on monday is already released

pending investigation. it's unclear whether he's one of the two robbers who was described as armed and dangerous showing fleeing in those photos which was released yesterday. >> you know, shoot, i haven't seen that video. >> $65 million worth. >> that's unbelievable that they got away. next, the fight for afghanistan as insurgents are on the rise. we'll talk to mike well ware and militias in danger. internet recruiting videos on the rise. why and where the threat exists.

today, fierce fighting as hundreds of u.s. and afghan soldiers move in to protect the citizens. insurgents have vowed to disrupt the votes and now a national security analyst is peter better again. the deadliest month? >> yes. >> how tough is this going to be just to pull off the election? >> well, i think the election will take place. president obama's enjoy said, you know, there's going to be problems.

you've got the security issues, you've got corruption and already had election observers or workers killed. i think nine have been killed already. there's going to be area where is essentially people will not be able to vote. there may be disenfranchising. by the way, it's not going to be a pretty picture but i think it will work its way to some kind of different outcome. >> did the election make much of a difference in terms of success on the ground militarily? >> in terms of the war, yes and no. in a direct way, no. but in a grand entrance, the longest strategy, yes. it's about trying to create a government that the afghans can actually turn to.

because it's instilling a government enforces in place that will provide the security in both in terms of -- >> that's a knock on karzai, that he's just a mayor of kabul. >> it's always been a country with afghanistan. it's an entirely different place. karzai lacks the ability to inject essential power into the region. but it's difficult to have an essential government in the country. >> when you lived in karzai, could you understand anything that people will saying? >> not exactly. >> we're trying to go to peter bergen but we'll be assuring you back to said and made interesting comments. here's a little bit about what he said.

>> i would say this. in the simple sense, we will know it when we see it. >> that aside, it seems like the obama administration is trying to change the information about what success is. trying to gradually scale it down. you don't hear about democracy and -- >> as i'm sure they should. >> it's preventing al qaeda. >> and the bush administration set up the track and as we saw in iraq, let's face it. you're not going to have a glimmering model of democracy. in south asia, in kabul. it's never going to be something perfect.

so -- and we've got to remember, too. look this really isn't a humanitarian megs. america did not go to afghanistan for al true wis sick and national security interest. that's going to have to be the goal of the campaign. and so how is the fight going? i mean, early on we heard from u.s. commanders on the ground and saying, look, there's not enough afghan troops in this. >> there's not. they are doubling the size of the afghan army. as i last saw it, it was a hodge podge of different foot soldiers from different world wars. and when i last saw them, he actually lies to the back home. so this is going to be difficult. it's true, the momentum right now is the taliban and in a war like this, if you are not winning, you are almost losing. america may not lose it but they may not win it. the true victory, it's going to have to come with some kind of a functioning system, a decentralized system. >> u.s. commanders say there's not a true military system.

>> and they did right. sorry to pardon the pump but they did right. the solution is not going to be in the trenches. you've got to cut deals. >> a lot of folks working very hard right now fighting the trenches. michael ware, appreciate it. again, we tried to steb michael bergen. >> a quick report, a report on the in depth look at the islam city, even showing how one religious school is invited to join the taliban. take a look at --

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scott rooder sits alone in jail for the murder of an

abortion doctor tiller. one of the people that knows him best is his ex-wife, lindsey rooder. the man she has married has long scared her. >> reporter: did you think in the years going by that your ex-husband was capable of murdering a doctor who provided abortions? >> yes. >> reporter: she never could have imagined the downward spiral that her life would take. >> were you in love when you got married? >> yes. >> reporter: do you still love him? >> i love this guy i married.

>> reporter: this is the man she divorced. lindsay did not want to see her ex-husband in person in wichita, so she watched the preliminary hearing in the kansas city area where she lives. >> it's not a nightmare. it's life. it's true. >> reporter: over the years she saw her once stable husband becoming unglued and she filed for divorce after ten years. they stayed in touch because their sonic las was just 22. a year later when he was stopped with explosives in his car, lindsay warned investigators that he was dangerous. she was horrified when he was arrested but not shocked when he was arrested for the murder of tiller. two weeks after the arrest, she received this letter. >> my guess is that i will never hear back from you because that character was being the grown up spoiled brat that you are. but my true concern is with our son nicholas. i'm afraid he's becoming or already become a spoiled brat such as yourself. if you're an adult, you'll respond. if you're a slow brat, you won't. >> reporter: lindsay who says she was emotionally abused by scott rooder did not respond. >> what would you say to him? >> reporter: scott, you had no

right to take another person's life. you're not god. you're not a judge. you're not a jury. you say that you are protecting the unborn, that you did it for the children. that you were justified. if you did it for the children, why did i have to fight for years to get child support to care for nicholas? if you did it for the children, if you did it for a children, why would you pick a death sentence for nicholas? >> hopes and dreams demolished so completely.

>> so if scott rooder was fueled by rage, as his wife claims, he's certainly not alone. a new research shows a sharp rise in the vie -- especially in the midwest, pacific northwest, as well as the deep south. people drawn to these groups share a hatred of paying taxes, a suspicion of anything that the government does, and an african-american man as president. why do you think there's been an increase in militia activity since the beginning of the year. >> as you suggest in the intro, it really has a lot to do with the rise of the power of a black

man. for these people, for this movement in general, the prime enemy is the government, the federal government. that was true then and it's true today but the big difference is that the face of the federal government is the face of a black man. so i'm not suggesting that all militias and all people involved in this movement or ideology are really changesman secretly but it's a movement far from what we saw in the '90s. >> you're saying race is a much bigger factor this time around? and you're seeing this in the rhetoric? >> in the rhetoric and the kinds of issues that they really take on. you know, it's really quite clear. you know, one thing you hear a lot, again, not certainly from all people of this movement but for a great many of them is a lot of worrying, angst, over the idea that in 2042, white american also lose dlar lose their majority in this country. so that's the very visible rise of power of obama. it's continuing at relatively high rates of nonwhite immigration and central america. you know, all of those things are a part of this. certainly there are other aspects that are much similar, much more similar to what

happened in the '90s. a real worry about gun control and the new world order coming in and taking all. >> in the '90s, there were all classes of people. there were studies that showed that pretty plainly, it was not thick with lawyers and doctors and so on but really you had people from each kind of demographic. i think that's probably less true today. i think that it's a phenomena but really only a sense it's hard to say and only detailed study. we look at this movement and see an organized movement of a lot of different groups and the fact is that they are able to communicate and to transmit ideology and in fact to make plans in terms of simply meetings and rallies and other events. very easily. so that has been a great boost to them. >> and how many of these groups are talkers? ultimately they don't amount to much? >> well, i think a lot of them are essentially just talkers, but talk is not always completely benign.

i think we're seeing that right now in the town hall meetings and so on. i think the talk is malignant when they talk about comment state fors who really reiterate against the authority to the completely false ideas of propaganda of these groups. so, you know, what i'm saying is there a is poisoning of the mainstream political discourse. instead of talking about health care, we're talking about death panels and that kind of thing. >> mark potok, thank you very much.

go to ac360.com to get a list of plots, conspiracies, and rampages since the oklahoma bombing. coming up next, a serial killer on the loose? someone is getting away with murder along one quiet road. why is it taking so long to catch the murderer? and rescuers being rescued. floodwaters making it almost impossible to rescue typhoon victims. we'll show you the video. tonight a story out of north carolina, the remains of women found on seven bridges road. police believe their murders may be related. three other women are missing. authorities are scrambling for clues and the murders could be the work of a serial killer. david has the latest in the report. >> if someone were looking for a place to get away with murder in north carolina, the seven bridges road might be the place to go.

powerful floodwaters making it impossible to rescue victims. we'll show you the video.

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tonight a story out of north carolina, the remains of women found on seven bridges road. police believe their murders may be related. three other women are missing. authorities are scrambling for clues and the murders could be the work of a serial killer. david has the latest in the report. >> if someone were looking for a place to get away with murder in north carolina, the seven bridges road might be the place

to go. >> nothing but trees and pastures. >> reporter: since the 2005, remains of african-american women and suspected prostitutes have been found here among miles of woods and crops. there are a number of places that you could pull off here. you could just drive off and disappear in the woods in a matter of seconds. sadly, that's what has been happening to these women. they disappear never be seen alive again. >> is this the work of a serial killer? >> yes, i believe it is. the fact that the bodies have been found close together would argue for a serial killer. >> michael was once a states top forensic psychologist and believes that the killer is someone who could have a lot in common. >> their economic background, same race, i think it's a person that could fit very easily within the environment.

>> reporter: all of the victims were last seen in the town of rocky mountain. we went to where they came from, an area where prostitutes work neighborhood streets. >> typically this is the area. >> reporter: but we found the streets deserted, cleared by fear. prostitutes are easy targets for killers, living fragile lives of society's fringe's. still, it shouldn't have taken years for the town to take notice. >> is it just a matter of race? >> i think it's a combination of both. because even what a person does, they still have human rights. >> a turning point in public awareness and the investigation itself was the fifth victim. jarnice known to her friends as sunshine, friends and family publicly demanded justice. local authorities asked the fbi to assist. like the other victims, she

disappeared from rocky mount. her body was found off seven bridges road. from the streets of rocky mount, it's only about a 15-plin drive to get to places just like this. for all practical purposes, it's the middle of nowhere and this . and this is where investigators say that the victims are being killed. they won't give us a lot of detail about what they're finding but they tell us two of the victims was strangled, two stabbed and beaten. three other rocky mount women are currently missing. the sheriff of the county calls this a critical time in the investigation. leading many to hope that this lonely country road will soon lead to a killer. david maddingly, cnn, rocky mount, north carolina. >> scarey stuff. still ahead, a battle for tv ratings. what police say a brazilian crime show host did to win his time slot. another michael jackson tribute. this one apparently going global. the details when we continue. you need to be your own advocate.

be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yourself. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates, apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button. can i try that? [ chuckles ] wow! good luck getting your remote back. it's all right -- i love this channel. shopping less and saving more. now, that's progressive. call or click today.

now some of the stories we're following. erica hill has the "360" bull tip. raging waters following a massive typhoon in taiwan. he was trying to cross the river. luckily, he was pulled to safety. hundreds more were also rescued. but hundreds are still believed to be trapped in taiwan and more

than 100 people are confirmed dead. new cnn polling tonight. sarah palin's approval rating at 39%, down seven points from may. that poll was taken before her recent comments claiming provisions of health care reform would result in a death panel. another tribute for michael jackson in austria. in word on who's going to perform. and murder for ratings. that's what the cops allege. the host of a brazilian crime show is under suspicion of commissioning at least five murders to boost ratings. police also accuse him of drug trafficking. his attorney has said there is no evidence to prove this. >> wow! that would be crazy. >> it's a crazy story. his son is part of it according to the police. you can't make it up. still ahead, everyone's favorite atlanta housewife.

apparently she stopped by cnn with a message or two. erica has tonight's "shot." ♪ strength on its own can be impressive. when consistency is added, that's when it becomes real. ♪ at northwestern mutual, we've been able to deliver real strength... for over 150 years. northwestern mutual. consistency counts. put our strength to work for you. learn how at northwesternmutual.com.

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as anderson mentioned before the great, i'm going to take over the "shot" tonight because there were a number of stories -- >> thank you for filling in for me. >> my pleasure. >> did you keep the room as icy cold as i keep it? >> no. that was one of the first things i said, let's turn up the heat. while you were gone, there were all these shots and stories that came up and say oh, this would be great. so we thought we would choose one of the staff favorites to share with you. take a look. >> i do watch anderson cooper. i love him a lot. he's very handsome and all that stuff and sometimes i listen to the news and sometimes i'm just looking at him, child. >> she loves you too. >> i heard that he loves me and i love you. so anderson, if you're looking,

let's do it one more time, boo-boo. >> we know she can't get enough of her boo. the love fest continued today at cnn's headquarters. she stopped by, apparently she has a new book, there to talk about it but she also had to take a little quiz. >> bradley cooper for anderson cooper. >> anderson cooper, that's my baby. how did you know that? >> he has said before, he's on record saying he's a fan of the "housewives" particularly himmi leaks. have you had a conversation with him yet? have you sat down in starbucks? >> no. but he was supposed to call in on the show, but he was away swimming with the sharks. so gayle king called in instead. >> was that a good substitute? >> yeah. >> he's throwing you under the bus there. >> oh, we