might be. what is the morality here of federal funding here for abortion. >> first of all, the secretary of the treasury but when it comes to abortion, first of all, i also am with bishop jackson and consider myself pro life. i would not support public funding but everything i'm hearing from both sides is that's not going to be a part of this. >> let me ask you this. do you really believe what you're hearing from either side on this? >> i want a straightforward answer from a good fearing man. do you really believe what you're hearing from either side? >> i think there are folks trying to speak the truth on either side of it but there's so

much heat and -- >> do you find yourself a pergatory or something fancy like that? >> well, i believe that we really need to watch and it's clearly been poll lit sized. folks are saying, we want to do the best for the public but you don't get to read the details or understand the details and there are many nuances of this moral approach that we don't understand about. and i go back to the fact that i would not be here, lou, i had a 15% chance of living only with the greatest health care in the world, why do we jeopardize the care from the world's best doctor with a plan we don't even know what it is? >> actually, you get the last word. >> i was going to say, lou, mr. jackson had health insurance coverage so he could still be

here. and don't have access to affordable coverage. they wouldn't be standing here. he's here because of -- >> what about the number of people who bishop jackson is saying who, under rationing, because there's a limitation to resources, would be denied health care. i understand your moral position and i understand that each of us is sympathetic to it. the moral quandary, obviously we'll have to explore that. we've got a lot of government exploration to do and a lot of government issues to overcome. thank you very much. i hope you both will come back as we discuss this issue in the weeks ahead. >> thank you. >> and bishop jackson, we're awflul delighted that the outcome was extraordinary

positive. >> thank you. brook? >> lou, we want to show you video that is, quite trang frankly, tough to watch here. this is amateur video of the midair collision of the small plane colliding with a sightseeing helicopter. five italian tourists and the pilot in that chopper were killed. three people in the plane died in the crash. they are hoping that this new video will show how this accident happened. quite a scene in california. massive wildfires burning in northern california this evening. firefighters still battling the fast-moving fire near the santa cruz mountains. the blaze, which started last night, has now charred 2300 acres. it's about 3 1/2 square miles and new questions this evening about a possible conflicts of interest for the pick of the surgeon general.

she's dr. regina benjamin. she was paid $10,000 to sit on al panel at the company. a spokesman for the department of health and human services says dr. benjamin will resign from those boards when she's confirmed by the senate. and, lou, some of the stories we have our eyes on for you. >> appreciate it very much, brook baldwin. coming up next, public reacting as democrats are trying to take a new approach in managing the health care message. >> yeah, it's pathetic. you know, i've watched the congress and i wonder how some of the people have been elected. when you hear and see what they say. >> we'll have more on this intensifying health care debate, including the political extreme, the left, the right driving much of this debate and what are independents saying about all of that? more importantly, what are they doing about it? we'll be right back.

joining me now is chris. good to have you with us, chris. here in new york, new york daily news, aaron, great to see you again. and former director of communications for the democratic national committee, karen, thank you for joining us. the rasmussen poll is showing 47% approval, the lowest

approval rating for president obama. your reaction? >> the president came in with pretty high approval ratings and he's been willing to spend the capital on trying to save the problems that we face. he's had health care reform, economy and one of the things that i think is most important, though, is if you look at the numbers of honest and trustworthiness, those numbers remain quite high. people may disagree with the way he's handling certain things but the fact that they still trust him and his judgment i think is pretty important. >> the performance, when you say performance, i tend to think of it as the argument, is this debate being conducted in an effective manner and i wouldn't say that it is. it's just too vague. we don't know. we have the principles that the president likes. we have a whole lot of bills passing around. we don't know when or if they will be reconciled into one bill

if they will vote up or down on. so there's a lot to be disgusted with with what is coming out of washington these days. chris? >> i think the biggest problem for the president right now is that people don't think that he's broad changed washington. the poll numbers that should be most alarming for the administration are double digit losses and the question of is different than other politicians. he needs to recapture that notion that he is a breath of fresh air. >> these polls are showing that independents are desserting the president and the town hall meet wgs a 2-1 margin, what's that about? >> i think it's a little to say that you, sympathize with the protestors -- >> 65% of the affiliate i'm

sorry i -- >> well, again, speaking to what we're seeing at the town halls, i think that some people believe -- i believe people should have the right to go and speak out and ask questions. but that's not what we've been seeing. what we're seeing is people organizing people against getting the questions asked and answered. i wonder if we're talking about, when they say that w they sympathize with the protestors, are they sympathizing with the people creating violence and hate speech which i think is the destructive process. >> are there evil mongers? is that the latest from senator reed? we've gone from unamerican now to evil mongers. >> our american values say that we believe in free speech. we believe in -- >> why is everybody trying to constrain expression? >> i believe that tirinary is

when i want to drive a stake through the heart or -- >> really? did i say i wanted to do that through howard dean's heart? >> on your radio program. >> you heard me make a referenc as a matter of fact, i was -- >> that is a convenient correction. you called him a blood sucking liberal. >> number no. >> but how does your saying things like that -- >> excuse me. excuse me. if you will permit me. i called him a blood sucking leftist. >> oh, excuse me, leftist, not liberal. >> i just want be you to accurate. >> blood sucking that, is such kind term. >> you have a right not to be offended. >> i do have a right to be offended. my question to you is -- >> i'm excuse you, you do have a right to not be offended? >> no. >> my question is when we hear language -- >> i'm not hear to listen to your questions. you're telling me, evil amongors, unamerican.

you want to worry about language? let's hear about ed shultz today. roll what ed shultz had to say today. are you familiar? >> yes, i am. >> actually, he said it tuesday. >> sometimes i think they want obama to get shot. i do. i really think that there are conservative broadcasters in this country who would love to see obama taken out. they fear socialism. they fear marxism. they feel the united states of america won't be the united states of america anymore. >> i don't totally agree with everything that ed said. i'm not as far to the left as ed is. >> no. but you are an ideologue. >> i am not. >> you are pursuing an agenda. >> absolutely not. >> you're upset because i'm expressing my opinion. >> i think ed shultz put his finger on something that is important. day in and day out. >> finger on something important? >> there are people, lou, i don't want to call any names, but there are broadcasters out there saying day after day after

day that white house is preparing is concentration camps. that there are death panels s. >> if anyone is saying that, we should be saying their names. >> who are they? >> michael savage. you hear similar kind of talk from rush limbaugh. >> not similar. you used very specific language. who used that language? >> death panels, all over the place. all over the place. i mean all over the place. seriously. on your station, lou. >> concentration camps? >> they have described them in detail, that order is going to come. >> answer the question. >> and when you see somebody show up -- >> has anyone done what ed shultz said? has anyone done that? this is beyond the pale -- >> i think there are people doing the exact equivalent or the radio, the media equivalent of selling discord and then in effect placing metaphorically a loaded gun on the table and then

walking out of the room. >> my god, to even use that meta for. i have to be honest with you, you and i have known each other for a long time. that is a patently ideological -- >> lou, wait. >> chris, i don't -- we don't want to leave chris out of this debate. >> i think what is illustrated here is that -- >> no. the only thing i see here is nobody is talking about health care anymore. we are talking about the mob. we're talking about the president. exactly. but i think the point here is that white house has lost control of this discussion. congress lost control of the discussion. they didn't put any -- they didn't put a final idea forward, a proposal to the american people which is understandable. the president wanted one done by august. so there would be something to talk about. they failed in that goal. and right now people are understandably upset. the anger, the discussion, the outrage that we hear, i think, is illustrative of the fact that the democratic majority has done a good job of selling this thing

to the american people. and now they're attacking the people who are upset about it. >> i obviously take issue with that. we're not attacking people that are upset. we're suggesting that at these town halls -- >> you take exception to what? >> people that come to the town halls -- >> we don't care what you're taking exception to. >> then why are you having me on the show to talk about health care reform? >> i'd love to hear you talk about it. but you started talking to me about something i said on radio about howard dean. what's that got to do with it? >> that's exactly my point, lou. what does that have to do with it? >> do you appreciate bringing up those points? >> look -- >> chris, i -- >> i can just say, i just need five seconds wlchlt peop. when people are bringing guns to town hall meetings. that's a problem. >> you think it's appropriate to bring guns to town hall meetings? >> you are doing everything can you to absolutely distort an event that occurred that was

absolutely benign. a man was making a point. he happens to live in a state in which guns are permitted to be carried. it's a constitutional right. now he not only went to constrain freedom of speech and freedom of expression, you want to attack the second amendment and distort it into something sinister when you're sitting here talking in language that i frankly i think is highly irresponsible. we'll be right back. all around the world, men with erectile dysfunction have asked their doctors about cialis. ask your doctor if a cialis option is right for you because in addition to 36-hour cialis, there's another dosing option: cialis for daily use, a low-dose tablet you take every day so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. man: tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach,

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at the top of the hour, sitting in for campbell brown, john roberts. >> hi, lou. tonight, should louisville coach rick pitino be allowed to keep his job now that he's caught up in a sex scandal? plus, is dick cheney joining the

critics of george w. bush? i'll talk to mary matalin. and an all-star tribute to a guitar legend. steve miller and richy sam bora join me to remember les paul. >> is he responsible for the eight strak. track. these days, wouldn't it be great if saving money happened as automatically as everything else? at bank of america, it practically does. use the bankamericard power rewards visa credit card and earn rewards like cash back with every purchase. cash you can put into savings. or even use to help pay down your credit card balance. it's one of the many ways we make saving money in tough times a whole lot easier.

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