three years ago we'd passed health reform. if people like myself who suffered and saw what was happening had come forward, we could have changed things. and it's too late for my husband. but it's not too late for hundreds of other people. all those people are waiting on the wings to live. and we've got to do everything we can to make sure they live. >> bringing you all sides in this health care debate. "cnn newsroom" continues right now with our own kyra phillips. kyra? >> drew, thanks so much. we're pushing forward on government health care. critics call it a government takeover of private insurance. democrats call it an indispensable option. a texas judge is on trial for turning her back to a party appeal. the execution went on as scheduled. and who's maxing out your credit cards. it may not be you and it might

be the least of your troubles. hello, everyone, i'm kyra phillips, live in the cnn world headquarters in atlanta. and you're live in the "cnn and you're live in the "cnn newsroom." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com preferable, not essential. the bottom line from the white house on a so-called public option. a government-run health plan that would compete with private plans in supposedly drive down costs. at least for today, president obama is letting others do his public pitching. among them, health secretary, kathleen sebelius, who on sunday seemed to make a big concession to conservative who reject what they call a government takeover of health care. here's sebelius today, speaking to a medicare conference followed by her comments sunday on cnn's "state of the union." >> all i can tell you is that sunday must have been a very slow news day. because here's the bottom line,

absolutely nothing has changed. we continue to support the public option that will help lower costs, give american consumers more choice, and keep private insurers honest. if people have other ideas about how to accomplish these goals, we'll look at those, too. but the public option is a very good way to do this. and i think what is important is choice and competition, and i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those, but that is not the essential element. >> but let me just quite simply, so the public option is not a deal breaker from the president's stand point? >> well, i think there will be a competitor to private insurers. that's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. we need some choices. we need some competition. >> so, what might a public option really mean? senior medical correspondent, elizabeth cohen, shows us and

tells at the magic wall. elizabeth, what would a government health plan look like? >> right now, kyra, we want to give people the facts about the public option, public health insurance. let's take a look at the basics. basically what we're talking about is the government would be paying for this health insurance. they'd be funding it. they'd be administering it, really, kyra, it is similar to medicare. we're all familiar with medicare. that is basically a government-sponsored health care -- health insurance program for anyone over age 65, you could think of this public option in a way as health care insurance, publicly funded for the rest of us. >> so, what's the big concern? >> well, the big concern is this -- the premiums for this public option are expected to be about 10% to 20% lower than what you would have to pay for private insurance. now, sounds good, right? i mean, who can argue with something that costs less? but the concern is that because it costs less, employers are going to say, wow, let's switch to that. i'm going to ditch my private insurance and ensure my

employees through this public program. now, the folks who wrote those bills have explained to me, look, we've set it up so that big employers can't do that. they can't join the public option, at least in the beginning, but then the other side says, well, but eventually those private insurance companies are going to have a hard time competing. >> so, what would it mean for real people, bottom line? >> we've designed two real people. the first one is john. we're wondering will the public option help john? i think the answer here is very clear. it will definitely help him. the reason why? take a look at john's back. he's got a bad back. insurance companies, said, sorry, john, can't insure you. this happens in real life. an insurance company can actually say, you know, we're not going to insure you because you've got a bad back, so he'll definitely be helped. but let's take a look at somebody else. we call her susie. will the public option help susie? you can see susie is sort of corporate america here. she works for a big company. and you know what, the public option won't really help her. it won't affect her at all.

it won't do anything, and the reason is probably because her employer won't be allowed to join it. so, the public option means different things for different people. >> elizabeth cohen, appreciate it. >> thanks. if you have a thought, a rant, a question, on public options or anything else regarding health care, here's a few of the towns where lawmakers are actually listening today. but here's a heads up, texas congressman lee green is requiring ids at his town hall meetings, he claims 'yote an effort to disrupt previous meetings. and the health care reform don't have the street corners to themselves anymore, halfway through the make-or-break month, people are showing up and speaking up. more about that next hour. and if you want to know more about health care debate and how it could affect you and your family, check out the special health care in america on cnn.com, you can get the latest on fact checks and i-reports, you can even read the bills, just go to cnn.com/healthcare. the name, sharon keller, her critics call her sharon killer.

the texas judge now on the other side of the bench fighting for her career. she's accused of misconduct, of costing a condemned man his last-minute appeal. today's day two of the state's fact-finding trial in san antonio. and judge keller says she will take the stand and defend herself. some background on the case now from james munoz of our affiliate kens. >> reporter: judge sharon keller was first elected to the texas court of criminal appeals in 1994. today she's at the center of a rare hearing to gather facts. a commission will review the findings to determine whether or not judge keller responded appropriately to attorneys who tried to file a last-minute stay of execution. on september 25th, 2007, michael rashard was to be executed at 6:00 p.m. he was convicted in the 1986 sexual assault and shooting death of marguerite dixon, that morning the u.s. supreme court agreed to review lethal injection practices. attorneys for rashard wanted to

request a stay of execution, but were told the clerk's office closed at 5:00 p.m. rashard was executed at 8ky 20. >> the u.s. supreme court was not able to, based on their own rules, to issue a stay, even though they issued a stay on the next person who the court case came to them and the one after that. and there were no more executions for another seven months. >> reporter: the case has energized groups against the death penalty. inside the courtroom the only goal is to hold judge keller accountable if, in fact, she failed to uphold death penalty policies in texas. a commission will review the findings from this hearing. they could issue a public censure, dismiss the case or recommend the judge be removed. in texas, james munoz for cnn. now, cnn's ed lavandera has been working this story as well. he's actually putting together a piece for "the situation room" today. ed, how are folks in texas reacting to this whole situation right now? >> as that piece alluded to, it has obviously drawn a lot of

interest from those who oppose the death penalty. of course, texas a lightning rod state for this issue as well. there's also a great deal of support for this judge who has been elected several times since 1994, extremely popular. seen as someone who is a victims' advocate, so she's also getting a great deal of support from that side of the debate as well. >> so, what kind of punishment could she face? and could she lose her job? >> she can. there's several things that can happen. the charges can be dismissed. there's five charges of misconduct against her. she could be censured or removed from her office. she's the highest-ranking criminal judge in texas and part of that, if it does go that far, she could be kept from being a judge at all on any level in the state of texas. >> so, what do you think? is the whole death penalty debate firing up? >> having grown up and lived in texas for so long -- >> it's also a fiery issue. >> it is -- it is a fiery issue but, you know, you talk to a lot of people here, and it almost

seems like while there is an intense opposition to the death penalty here in texas, it has probably far more overwhelming support, but it does generate a great deal of threinterest. i've been down to the death chamber in huntsville, texas, and it always seems that there are news media crews from around the world coming here to do stories. so, as much interest and as much as people talk about it here, it also generates far more interest from around the world as people watch how this is handled here in this state. >> we'll watch it, too. ed lavandera, thanks. you can watch ed's full report with wolf blitzer in "the situation room." that will be in the 6:00 hour eastern time, by the way. now, a lot of you guys already weighing in with your verdict. let's go ahead and start with a tweet from right there in the lone star state. tr hogan said, it's texas, she'll probably get a medal for saving overhead court costs. texas, it's a state of mind.

the texas judicial system is above the law, or did he aller if get that? wink, wink. and a more political bent from crayoncolors, i can't figure out the conservatives right to life issues. i think they just must be probirth and not pro-life. judge's quote, appalling. why don't you shoot us your tweet at kyracnn. robert novak, a lion among conservative columnists and a fixture on cnn for years died today of cancer. he was 78 years old. he was a key figure in the valerie plame leak case and for years the co-host of the cnn's show "crossfire." tom foreman looks back at the man who was on the front lines reporting political news. >> reporter: bob novak was in high school when he got his first reporting job. he worked his way through several midwest newspapers and eventually landed in where his dogged pursuit of leads and rapidly expanding list of

contacts led to an early break from a competitor. roland evans. >> it was a news column, six days a week. he couldn't do it himself. they told him. they told him to get a partner. i was then 31 years old, and that was the birth of the "evans/novak" column. >> reporter: they wrote "inside report" for 30 years, on everything from watergate to iran contra, the pair earned respect and fear from official washington. >> we should be on the air at 6:00 as predicted. >> reporter: so, in 1980, when ted turner had this idea for a 24-hour news network, evans and novak were there. reporting, solid, old-fashioned reporting was the core of all of his programs. and there were many. >> "crossfire." >> reporter: he was at the conventions, digging up stories. >> i've been told by the reagan

people that both ronald reagan and gerald ford will come to the hall tonight. >> reporter: confronting the powerful -- >> it was a litany of questions. >> yeah, but that was one of them. >> i don't understand. but it was one of three or four and i had about 30 seconds to answer, so give me -- the answer's i want to keep the platform the same. >> reporter: and taking no prisoners on the political battlefield. >> why did you laugh over the death of an american service member? >> don't be a demagogue. i did not last. you're sitting here for tom braydon. >> on the tape you laughed. >> reporter: but those who worked with him give a very different picture of the off-screen bob novak. >> he was a really warm hearted guy. a neat guy. who cared a lot about the people that worked with him. cared a lot about the people who worked for him. and if you were a friend of bob novak's, you wouldn't have a better friend. >> reporter: in 2005, bob novak left the channel he'd helped to build. >> i want to thank cnn for

making this network available to me for 25 years. never censured me once, ever. >> reporter: bob novak was a man who fiercely enjoyed life. his nickname, the prince of darkness, was not invented by his enemies, but by his friends, of which there were many. they knew that his pessimism about politicians never clouded an unbounded optimism about his country and his profession. tom foreman, cnn, washington. hurricane bill could be a major storm by week's end, and that's got a lot of folks concerned. chad myers tracking bill, and he'll show us what the forecast models are predicting. and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu?

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♪ things that make you go yum things that make you go hmm. well, this fall's new college freshman came on the scene in the early '90s and, well, would you believe for this class of 2013, the kgb has never official existed? one fun tidbit from the annual mindset list. look at 09 they are cultural notes. the green giant has always been shrek, not the vegetable pitch man. britney spears has always been on classic rock stations. i just don't get that one. and these kids have grown up with flat-screen tvs and playing on those tvs all their lives,

condom ads. check them all out on cnn.com/, kyra, ra. (announcer) the brands you love cost less at walmart. and people love hanes socks. (laughing) oh yeah! crash keep your family comfortable with better fitting socks at an unbeatable price. save money. live better. walmart.

all right. well, some residents of the caribbean including cuba are considering themself pretty lucky right now. they've escaped serious damage from their brush with ana. what's left of the first named storm of the atlantic hurricane season is now dumping heavy rain on cuba and the island of hispaniola, but it could have been a lot worse. forecasters are concerned that the system could regroup and become a tropical storm again after it passes through the

florida keys later this week. and east of the caribbean, something serious to worry about. the atlantic season's first hurricane, bill, is churning toward the region. and right now, there's no way to really know for sure where it's heading. chad myers is tracking the big storm in the cnn severe weather center. hey, chad. >> you know, kyra, we know two to three days out which way this thing's going, but people expect -- people expect -- the ten-day forecast to be accurate. and literally the hurricane center will tell you, after five days we could be 300 miles west or 300 miles to the right. that's why we put this in a cone in the first place. and stop looking at the line that is out there and begin to look at the cone. there's 105-mile-per-hour winds, 2 125-mile-per-hour gusts. the eye got smaller for a while and now it's bigger again. think about an ice skater who has her arms in or out. if the arms are out, and the eye is bigger, the storm doesn't go

as fast. arms are in, the figure skater goes very, very fast in a big circle. well, these circles could be larger later on in the forecast. category 3, and, in fact, even some models taking it up to nearly a category 4 hurricane strength over 130 miles per hour. we'll have to see. i know you were just mentioning this about cuba, so i'll take you to this. this is what was left of ana. it does not have a name. it's not a depression. it's nothing now but a large flare-up of cloud cover and that cloud cover is heading now across the florida straits and really this weather could get itself back in a warm-water mass. that's the gulf of mexico, and if that does happen, if it holds together at all, as it gets over this cuba area, we could see something back in the gulf of mexico. some of the computer models are now doing that for what would be renamed ana, because it's still kind of -- it still always was there. i don't believe they'd given a new name because they knew the cloud mass was always there. you could see it, though. it could be there over the

weekend. you saw how quickly claudette popped back up again over the weekend. if you're in college, here's a question for uh. how's your mandarin? she why you might want to learn china's official language. and the death at disney tworld, the third in recent weeks. i don't always let my bladder problems...

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the chevrolet malibu and the pontiac g-6. ford, honda, toyota, hyundai and crisler also have boosted productionve production due to the clunkers program. japan, hong kong, singapore, all of the asian economic giants have one thing in common right now, all appear to have broken free of the global recession. all are export driven, so where does the u.s. play in their recovery, if at all. cnn's richard quest joins us now live from hong kong. he's traveling all over the world for his take. so, what do you make of it, richard? >> reporter: and that is the conundrum. because the traditional view had been that without the u.s. consumer, places like the export-driven economies of southeast asia and asia could not return to good growth. well, it appears to be not necessarily the case. because of the vast -- and i mean hundreds of billions of dollars of stimulus cash that's been poured into this part of the world -- they've yanked themselves out of recession.

whether, kyra, it is sustainable, of course, is the big question. because people still say here that even though hong kong, singapore, south korea, china are growing, they will not get back to normal growth, 6%, 7%, 8%, 9%, until the u.s., the u.s. consumer, gets back in the stores. >> i will say it, i don't think they have. i don't think some of them have. i think some have. but some of them have not. >> reporter: if that is right, they're destined for a phenomenal backlash. >> i don't know. greed, you know, is a powerful thing in this world and, you know, money feeds greed. i think you haven't got a bad system in england, that i think up to a certain level or beyond a certain levels, shareholders actually have to approve remuneration or packages, you know, to executives. you know, if the -- if the boards, you know, want to put forward certain package, the shareholders, that might be

answer. i don't like governmental interference if it can possibly be avoided because, you know, i don't think capitalism should die. or should be dead, because, you know, we can't think of a way as to how to better, you know, government and better manage our financial sectors. >> reporter: now that is a fascinating point of view from ronald akui, who is the chairman of the hong kong stock exchange. and not only do they have economic growth in this part of the world, but there, kyra, you have a chairman of a stock exchange criticizing the bonus culture that has now come back into the financial world. so, a totality, if you like, basically saying if the bankers do not start being responsible about bonuses, they'll find themselves in deep trouble with government regulators. >> well, yeah, and it was the bonuses that caused us such a

huge problem here in the u.s. let's talk about beijing and shanghai, the new job centers for american college graduates having trouble finding jobs here in the u.s. are they just taking off and going over there? >> reporter: well, first of all, they've got to have the necessary visas. i think there is a perception. in the old days, you know, when i was growing up and going through college, the idea was you went out and got a russian degree or you learned to speak russi russian. nowadays you've got to learn to speak mandarin. and what a lot of american students are forgetting that important little fact. they see the 8%, 9% economic growth of china. they believe, of course, like hong kong, it's english speaking or at least it's relatively western in its environment, and they forget -- now, look, i've been to china several times, and i can tell you once you go away from the major cities even in places like shanghai, if you don't have a command of mandarin, you'll find yourself in deep water, very deep water! you won't get very far.

in fact, you'll get nowhere at all! so, to those american students who suddenly believe, ah, economic nirvana, it has to be china! get back to the books. mandarin is the fruit of choice. >> well, i understand your, i guess, fruit of choice is a new suit? you've been out shopping, i understand, getting to know the hong kong tailors? >> reporter: the hong kong tailors are for one thing, beside anything else, and that is, they'll make you a suit pretty much overnight. whether it lasts until the end of the week and you don't end up running around in your skivvies is another matter. but we've put it to the test. today, i went out and i was measured up by a hong kong tailor. one of the big tailors that goes to various cities like london, paris, new york, people go to the hotel suite, they get all, you know, measured up and trussed up, and then you go out and you actually, they -- a week later the suit arrives.

tomorrow night, you will see me in my new suit, which, incidentally, before anybody casts aspersions, i will have paid for. >> yes, i will hope that you will be fully dressed as well. richard quest, we look forward to it tomorrow. thank you. well, a store clerk asked for your personal security number when you use your credit card, so when do you say no? well, that's a serious question if you're worried about having your identity stolen. we'll hear what an expert has to say. with all the pet hair in the air, i'd spend class preoccupied, bothered by itchy eyes. but now i have new zyrtec® itchy eye drops. it works fast, with just one drop, to relieve my itchy eyes from allergies for up to 12 hours. no other allergy itchy eye drop works faster or longer. which is good, 'cause there's a lotta paws to shake. with new zyrtec® itchy eye drops i can love the air™. (announcer) find it in the allergy aisle next to other zyrtec® products.

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well, here's a story that will make you think twice about who you give your personal information to. it's the biggest credit card breach in u.s. history. 130 million stolen credit card account numbers. susan lisovicz at the new york stock exchange with the details. now, susan, how can a person actually get his or her hands on that much private information? >> kyra, you have to be really, really good, and by all accounts this guy was a rembrandt in his field. his name is albert gonzalez.

he's 28 years old, high school graduate, self-taught programmer with a long history. in fact, one of the names of a previous smaller operation was get rich or die trying. he and two unnamed co-conspirators allegedly hacked in to corporate computer networks. secretly put malicious software on them which allowed backdoor access to steal the data and that's how you get to 130 million accounts. ironically, kyra, when the theft was uncovered, gonzalez was already in jail because of the aforementioned history that i was talking about. for instance, the tjx credit card theft case, we talked a lot about that last year, that was a mere 40 million accounts. that's one of his -- one of his scams, and he faces a lot of time for that one and another 20 years if he's convicted in this one, kyra. >> so, susan, do we know any details on what he actually did with the accounts?

were they sold and then used? >> well, certainly the intent was to make a lot of money on it, and prosecutors say the goal was to sell the data. but the thing about these kind of scams, identity theft, is that you really don't know the reach until you start hearing from the consumer -- consumers themselves. your account may be compromised. the number may have stolen. it's when you start utilizing that. we don't know just yet. we do know, prosecutors say, that they targeted 7-eleven, haniford brothers, which is a regional grocery chain based in the northeast, and perhaps, most importantly, heartland payment systems, which is a huge credit and debit card processor. so, i guess the one big caveat here is for everyone, to continue to check your bills and -- and make -- and take note of anything that seems out of the ordinary. >> that's a good point. i don't know if you do, but i do -- >> i certainly do. >> since you're reporting, i'm

much more vigilant about doing that. susan, do me a favor and stick around, because you might have some questions for our next guest. he's actually got information on how we can protect ourselves from identity theft. joining us now from san diego, jay foley with the identity theft resource center. and, jay, you probably heard susan's report there and are up on this story. i guess a lot of us, just talking in our morning meeting this morning, some say they absolutely don't do certain things. others, like even for me, i give that security number on my card all the time because i thought it's just something that you needed to do in order to make a purchase. so, tell me, what do you definitely not have to give when you're using your credit card? >> when you're using your credit card in the store, you have it right there, and you're actually swiping it through the machine, there's no reason to give the three digit security code. that code is for online transactions when the card is not present. >> so, only online do you

need -- so, when they say, what's your security code, you can say, i'm sorry -- i mean, how do you do it without insulting them, and can you still get your purchase? >> in most cases you can still get your purchase. if there's a company that refuses, ask to speak to the manager. there's no legitimate reason for them to ask for that code if you're standing right there with the card in their presence. >> so, how do you -- then what do you need -- then is just showing an i.d. is okay? >> just showing an i.d. would be fine. just physically showing the card would be fine. >> okay. what about when they ask for phone numbers and e-mails? >> well, phone numbers and e-mails, what they're trying to do there is they're gathering a marketing list. they're also trying to decide where their customer base is coming from. decline to give both of those if you do not wish to be bothered by the e-mails that they're going to send out, or if you want to be identified as to where you live. >> something else that you pointed out that i thought was

interesting -- and also, susan, jump in if you have a question, okay? >> sure will. >> you were saying, jay, that don't ever use a debit card, just use an atm card. yeah, you smile, but you know what, when have we -- when's the last time we ever asked for an atm card. it seems like everybody has a debit card. >> not me. i have an atm card, and i fight with my bank every year to make sure i keep my atm card. a debit card is a nice, convenient card. however, there's a problem with it. i can take the deb it card and use it for purchases just by hitting the debit instead of credit and i no longer need your p.i.n. number, and i can overdraft your account by doing that method leaving you holding the bag. if i use a credit card for my purchases, it's lost, it's copied, it's cloned, whatever, i'm only responsible for the first $50 in loss. on a debit card, those standards are not mandated by federal law.

>> anything else we may not think about or -- susan, were you going to ask a question? >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> you know, i think that all the information you're giving is very helpful, jay, for us to be more careful with the personal information that we give out. but in this particular case, where we're talking about 130 million accounts, we don't have any evidence that consumers did anything wrong. it was a couple or three so preemly sophisticated computer programs. how do you protect yourself against that? >> you don't. where this is the consumers not fault, the consumers aren't even part of this. where this problem truly exist, these are the businesses that collect the data. these are the businesses that process the transactions. they did not value and protect the data well enough. the hackers attacked them. >> so, you're scot-free as a consumer? >> as a consumer where the cost of this came in, all the banks

and credit unions and credit card companies that had cards that were exposed in this, have had to replace them. they're the ones that have had to foot the bill. the minute this theft was discovered, these fraudulent charges started popping up, they ended up having to go out and replace millions of credit cards, millions of debit cards. >> sounds like all three of us need to put our heads together with all our various backgrounds and figure out a way to try to prevent this, because it sounds like right now we are pretty well hosed when something like this happens. jay before we let you go, anything sort of news we can bring up, any news you can use that we can do today to protect ourselves? >> well, the key thing is be very wary with where you're using your cards and how you're using them. and if you're going to be shopping online, i suggest you look for a secure payment agent process. they're available. there's more of them coming out. there was a very good one that was just released a couple weeks ago.

check them out. test them out. they will protect you from giving your information to a merchant that's going to hold and it possibly lose it. but at the same time they guarantee the merchant's going to get paid for the purchase. >> got it. and also go to your website, too, idtheft.org. thank you, guys. >> my pleas were your. we'll take you to disney world for thehe latest on a cas. but don't let that take away from how geico's always there for you. gecko vo: first rule of "hard work equals success." gecko vo: that's why geico is consistently rated excellent or better in terms of financial strength. gecko vo: second rule: "don't steal a coworker's egg salad, 'specially if it's marked "the gecko." come on people.

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so, if you're hoping to get a swine flu shot a couple months from now when the vaccine is available, you might be disappointed. the government says only 45 million doses will be ready in mid-october, that's far less than the 120 million doses expected. 20 million more will arrive each week after that, until the full order, 195 million doses, is reached. the delay is blamed on manufacturing issues. michael jackson will be buried on what would have been his 51st birthday. a spokesperson for the family says the private burial will take place on august 29th at the forest lawn memorial park in glendale, california. guests will be limited to family and close friends. it's kind of late to do anything about it now, but it's good to know anyway. what might have led to a legendary composer's premature

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two u.s. soldiers killed in eastern afghanistan. a suicide bombing in kabul. a rocket attack against the presidential palace, all of it happening two days before afghanistan's presidential election. all have the markings of the taliban and cnn's atia abawi is in the afghan capital. >> reporter: afghans are just two days away from their second-ever presidential elections, and as that day approaches, violence continues to increase. the first incident we saw this morning was when two rockets were launched into the capital of kabul, one hitting the presidential compound. it did not hit the president's home itself, but it was in the vicinity. another incident we saw was in central afghanistan, when a

suicide bomber attacked an ana checkpoint, the afghan national army, killing at least four soldiers and three civilians. and then back in kabul earlier this afternoon, another car bomb exploding, killing at least 7 people and injuring 53. among those 7, two u.n. local nationals. this, again, two days before the afghan presidential elections. these are tactics by the taliban to intimidate the afghan people from going out to actually vote. and it's working. just four days ago there was another car bomb in the capital of kabul. when i spoke to a victim, a 21-year-old young lady, she told me that she had a voting card. she was going to go out and vote, but because of that blast, that made the decision for her, and she refuses to go to the polls on thursday. atia abawi, cnn, kabul. the battle zone ends when the soldiers come home. we're pushing forward on the stress and strain of service in iraq and afghanistan and the toll it takes on military

families. dr. sanjay gupta reports next hour. and this mayor doesn't just talk the talk, he walks the walk. and saturday night he paid the price. well update the case and the condition of milwaukee mayor, turned hero, tom baret. well, first, they said that he was poisoned. then it was syphilis and maybe blood letting and even a bad pork dinner. mozart's been dead for more than 200 years, and since then there have been that many theories as to what killed him at 35. here's the least dramatic yet. and researchers think that strep throat silenced the composer. they went beyond the symptoms and looked at the death patterns are circa vienna 1991. the gang problem, one man was doing something about it and it was working. turning gangsters into legit and

successful citizens. now his program is in big, big trouble. ( car door closes ) ooooch! hot seat!

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murders, robberies, drive-by shootings, right now, more than 20 noun gang members terrorize the streets of los angeles. more than 20 years ago this was portrayed in this movie. but that same year this movie became a blockbuster, father greg boil started home boy industries, believing that nothing stops a bullet like a job. what started as a bakery became a mission. as a reporter in los angeles, i came to know father boyle at home boy industries.

i saw how he made a difference. david will tell you about that in just a second. first, father boyle, your charity is $5 million in the red right now and you may be forced to shut your doors. why? >> well, the recession has certainly hit us in a deep way. we are trying to do all we can and shaking every tree we can. we are the largest gang intervention program in the country. we've become even larger given the economic need and the demand for jobs. we have 400 workers and 12,000 folks walk through our doors, gang members from all over l.a. county. it is a daunting task. certainly, it requires funding. it is an expensive prospect but it is costly. >> david, just looking at your rap sheet, prison was pretty

much your second home. what was going on with you at a young age? >> that was all i knew at the time. i spent the majority of my life getting involved in gangs and ended up in prison and kind of thought that was my destiny, all i had to live for, all i had to do. when i came home, i was already tired of everything. a journey, another life switch that actually changed me. i have this man who was now like a father figure to me, who gave me the opportunity and allowed me to see the me inside of me and change me to somebody i was and i am blessed to have this job. >> from just listening to you, david, talk about quite a switch. you were first shot by a rival gang at the age of 11. your whole family, even the women, were involved in gangs. what was a daily -- as a gang member, what did your day

consist of on a regular basis? >> it all differed. all negativity. it was just different things, just out there doing a bunch of negative things, selling drugs, trying not to get shot and doing our stupidity things. i i kind of put that all behind me and am just trying to to move forward. there is a place like this helping me to do that share my stories with others. >> what was it about father boyle that you believed in? what caused the switch? because you were running pretty hard. >> well, he believed in me and actually made me believe in myself. he has helped me realize that we not so much as judge a book by its cover. we don't judge a book by the first chapter. the first chapter may not have been too great. he has helped me see i am many chapters to go.

>> father boyle, why did you believe in david. >> our place is a gang retab center. david was persistent and volunteered before i was able to hire him. he showed to me that he was eager to redirect his life and leave behind all the stuff that had been holding him back up to that point. he has proven himself to be a great, valued worker and somebody who teaches the younger folks who come through there and who participate in our curriculum. >> father, just seeing how home boy industries has grown in 20 years, it its remarkable how you bring these guys in and these women and train them and show them what it feels like to have a great job, bring home a paycheck, feel good about what they are doing. we are looking at video now of this program where they are actually installing solar panels and getting in on going green, which were brilliant. if you were to shut down and clothes down, what does this mean for the streets of l.a.?

>> well, i think it is cons gwen shall. since 1982, we have been able to cut gangs inha in half. we have five businesses where enemies work side by side with each other. it is not for nothing those numbers have gone south since 1992. certainly, homeboy is part of the reason why that has been part of the case. again, it will be costly if it has to fold. i'm hopeful that people will respond and we won't have to. >> well, that's what we really want to help you with as well. so, david and father boyle, we just want to plug the website, homeboy-industries.org. you can make a donation at the virtual car wash. i understand, father boyle, when we talked about it on friday, you got a lot of people to

participate. i know you need a lot more. i also know that you are dealing with leukemia as well. i hope you don't mind me saying something. there are a lot of people praying for you and i think a lot of people, david, you will agreerks you need father boyle and all of you need this program. >> we do. >> thank you very much. >> my pleasure. we wish you the best. we encourage all of viewers to get on to that website and to donate. >> david, thanks so much. father boyle, appreciate you. >> thank you, kyra. we are pushing forward on policy battles, personal battles and the issues that tie them together. it's a make or break month for health care in america. while we follow the politics, we are also looking at the critical needs of men and women in uniform. many returning soldiers carry life-threatening traumas that are finally getting the attention they deserve. one-third of the iraq and afghanistan vets at v.a. hospitals have mental health problems arising from their service. 37% of patients treated at v.a.

hospitals for the first time are there because of mental, no the physical, issues. dr. sanjay gupta looks at how devastating those issues can be. >> there is blood everywhere. a little difficult to talk about sometimes. >> reporter: it's been a tough transition from fallujah back to smallton america for marine veteran, matthew brown. >> constantly looking around, is that a bomb or just a bag, is someone trying to get me. different paranoia factors that wear on you after a while. >> reporter: just 24 years old, he joined the one in five iraq war veterans returning from combat with ptsd, post-traumatic stress disorder.

>> people knew i wasn't right in the head anymore, i wasn't the same person. then, i konlt explain to them, there is no way i can be the same person after things i have done and seen and things that have happened to me. >> reporter: his escape, abusing prescription pain killers an alcohol. at his worst, he says he was drinking one-fifth of liquor a day. >> the pain was always there. . pain will never go away. i was using more than i was prescribed to and drinniking on top of it always just indirectly trying to end the pain for a brief moment or forever. >> reporter: brown is not alone. alcohol is easily accessible and expensive and quickly becoming the drug of choice for veterans of the iraq and afghanistan con flick. a study published last year found combat soldiers under the age of 30 were nearly seven times more likely to binge drink. nobody comes home from war unchanged. it will take some time to come back into normal society, to

deal with the sort of media onslaught that we have in this country, the sort of sensory overload. the support systems that we have set up, veterans are falling through the cracks. >> reporter: groups are pressing congress to devote more resources. they launched a free online community for rveterans to get help. >> life is still a constant battle with ptsd. but it's a lot about the ter. now, i try to live for the people who can't. i am trying to live up to what the people that died could have. >> reporter: dr. sanjay gupta, cnn. >> "the new york times" reports the army soon require active

duty soldiers, reservists and national guard troops to undergo emotional training in mental stress resiliency to help ward off depression, post traumatic stress disorder and suicide. a lot of needy american veterans and their families are getting the help they need. maybe they are dealing with stress or mental help issues. right now, help is just a click away. join john roberts all this morning as veterans come back from the battle fields only to fight the war at home. all this week on cnn's american morning. on the health care reform front, more lawmakers making the floun rounds in florida. boyd is holding two more in the

panhandle. you can see that in "the situation room" right here on cnn. if you plan to make one of the texas congressman gene jean's town halls, be sure to bring your id. green wants to hear from his constituents and his constituents only from here on out. preferable but not essential on a so-called public option, the government-run health care that would compete with private plans. at least for today, president obama is letting others do his public pitching, kathleen sebelius seemed to make a big concession to reject what they called a government takeover of health care. here she is speaking to a medical conference followed by her comments on sunday about john king. >> all i can tell you is that sunday must have been a very

slow news day because here is the bottom line. absolutely nothing has changed. we continue to support the public option that will help lower costs, give american consumers more choice and keep private insurers honest. if people have other ideas about how to accomplish these goals, we'll look at those too. the public option is a very good way to do this. >> i think what's important is choice and competition. i'm convinced at the end of the date plan will have both of those but that is not the essential element. >> so the public option is not a deal-breaker from the president's standpoint? >> well i think there will be a competitor to private insurers. that's really the essential part. you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing. we need some choices. we need some competition. >> one thing that has changed as we get deeper into this make or break month, supporters of

health care reform are starting to organize and open their mouths, hitting the road to mount their own town hall demos. here is our carol costello. >> reporter: it was like a good old-fashioned dual, on one side those opposed and armed with sharp words and signs that cut right to the chase. this time, obama supporters roused themselves and fought back. they didn't exactly throw songs. at this protest, they didn't carry science calling the other side controversial names. >> they are staying respectful. we are out for the first time. i feel like it is a real turning point for us. folks have really been focusing on the other side. we have outnumbered them at least three to one if not more today. >> the pro obama crowd is part of the president's organizing for america grassroots network, the same network that worked so

hard for him during the 2008 campaign. it is just one weapon the democrats have been using to combat combative town hall meetings. >> why is congressman boehner taking the side of the insurance companies in the health care debate? >> reporter: these ads are part of the strategy too. some analysts say it all comes way too late. >> a lot of democrats would say, it is about time or it is pastime. the administration lost control of the message on health care. once a president loses control of the agenda, it is very difficult to get it back. >> reporter: sabato says the president never did control the message, because he didn't come up with his own plan, leaving that to lawmakers who crafted several plans, all open to interpretation and rumor. like the death panel bomb. once something like they want to kill grandma is out there, it is tough to fight, even though the president has tried. >> for all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary, what is truly risky is if we do

nothing. >> >> reporter: while his suppo supporters are now trying to do something more, even if they only succeed in drowning out the competing noise. >> reporter: analysts say scary seems to be working right now. a major health care plan was not passed before the august break. the president's administration left some wiggle room in the public health option. sabato says if that goes by the wayside, expect the president to pass a plan but one that has been seriously scaled back. >> the health care debate is stirring a lot of emotions across america. our tom foreman has done some checking. he says, if you want to know what's happening, think about the insurance industry as one big shopping mall. we'll find out why.

i was then 31 years old. >> reporter: roland evans and robert novak wrote "inside report" for 30 years from everything from watergate to iran contra, the pair earned respect and fear from official washington. >> we should be on the air at 6:00 as predicted. >> reporter: in 1980, when ted

turner had this idea for a 24-hour news network, evans and novach were there. solid, old-fashioned reporting was the core of all his programs and there were many. he was at the conventions digging up stories. >> i have been told by the reagan people that both ronald reagan and gerald ford will come to the hall tonight. >> reporter: confronting the powerful. >> it was a litany of questions. >> that was one of them. >> i understand. it was one of three or four and i have about 30 seconds to answer. the answer is, i want to keep the platform the same. >> reporter: and taking no prisoners on the political battle. >> why did you laugh over the death of an american servicemen. >> oh, don't be a dem gagogue. i did not laugh. >> on the tape, you laugh td. >> reporter: those who worked with him give a very different

picture of the offscreen bob novach. >> he was a really warm-hearted guy, a neat guy who cared a lot about the people that worked with him and for him. if you were a friend of bob novach's, you couldn't have a better friend. >> reporter: in 2005, bob novach left the channel he had help to build. >> i want to thank cnn for making this network available for 25 years, never censored me once, ever. >> reporter: bob novach was a man who fiercely enjoyed life. hits nickname, the prince of darkness was not invented by his enemies but by his friends, of which there were many. they knew that his pessimism of politicians never unclouded an unbounding optimism about his country and his profession. tom foreman, cnn, washington.

nerves ong edge across the caribbean as hurricane bill

turns toward the region. the people of cuba, a town still trying to recover from last year's devastation. >> reporter: she didn't have much, even before hurricane gustav destroyed half her tiny home last year. the kitchen and then another small room are all that's left for her to share with her husband, son, and daughter-in-law. when i asked her if that made her among the hardest hit in this town, an hour and a half outside ha ha vary na, she said, no. there are people who didn't have anything left to fix. she says, first, gustav and ike and then paloma. causing what the government says was $10 billion in losses. fruit and vegetables disappeared from the shelves. only seven people died, thanks to the country's well-oild evacuation plan to get residents out of their homes early and

give them food and shelter until it is safe to return. the first named storms of the season, ana and bill, set nerves on edge. >> we don't have very much left but if that gets destroyed, just imagine, she says. >> reporter: with state aid, rolando only recently replaced his roof. hurricanes never bring anything good, he says. thousands of people were left homeless just in san cristobal alone. just right over here, you have one of the houses that was completely destroyed. right now, an entire family is living in that small room right there. the timing couldn't be worse for cuba, many crops have only just recovered from last year's destruction. the global financial crisis has further clip ld the economy, making it hard for the government to guarantee basic supplies like gasoline and toilet paper. people worry they won't be so

lucky next time. shasta darling ton, cnn, san cristobal, cuba. >> if you would like to help victims, logon to our website, cnn.com/impact. chad myers keeping eye on the tropics. a lot of concern right now about hurricane bill? right? >> that's correct. bill being right here 105 miles per hour moving to the west/northwest. i believe it will miss the leeward island, the west indyings and travel to the north of there. it is forecast to turn from this category 2 storm, 105. it takes 111 to be category 3. as category 3 turns it up towards cuba, this is where the problem could be. we are sending crews to bermuda because of this event. that's what we are going to see with the storm. all the computer models and forecast, every single one taking it to miss the u.s.,

completely miss the u.s. now, computer models have been and are continuously wrong, especially seven to ten days out. i still need you, if you are in new york or boston, whatever, i still need you to watch this. certainly, bay of fundi and newfoundland, you need to watch this as well. cuba, what's going on there, an awful lot of cloud cover over cuba, the remnants of what was tropical storm, tropical depression and now basically nothing but it is still ana. as the storm continues, it is way off to the west of this storm. i will throw this away and pick up the radar. now, we are seeing the radar out of miami pick up the rain showers here through the florida straits. we do know it is raining along cuba as well. if it regenerates, it could get some impact in the gulf of mexico. i don't know whether that will happen or not. this looked terrible a couple

days ago, not that good this morning. now, the convection is flaring up, exactly what we thought would happen and what we mentioned yesterday, that the weather is so holt hert here, t water is so hot that things could regenerate. so far, we don't have a name or a circulation center. we don't have anything we need to worry about. when this gets into the gulf of mix mexico, this cloud cover, you saw what happened to claudette. if you are in the gulf of mix coarea, you need to keep watching this. right now, nothing. that's not saying that is going to stay that way. kyra? >> we'll keep watching. thanks, chad. there are no photographs of little green men. there is a report of a flying saucer that morfed into a star shape before disappearing. it is on the latest batch of ufo files released by britain and reported by our zane verjee. >> reporter: a spaceship with stories, documenting close encounters and mysterious

incidents. the uk national archives has released another batch of the government's "x" files, thousands of pages listed ufo sightings between 1993 and 1996. 1996 was the bumper alien year, 609 sightings, up five fofold f the year before. 1996 was also the year the tv show "x files" was at its peak. that same year, will smith battled aliens in "independence day" coincidence? the reports grabbing headlines. >> i can't prove that they don't exist. so, therefore, they probably do. >> i think the government has enough problems already without having to worry about aliens or ufos. >> i don't believe they exist. >> reporter: if you look up in the sky and see anything strange, you can report it at the british ministry of defense

website. this person saw a form main of 18 lights. they appeared like a flock of helicopters with lights on it. the ministry of defense spokeswoman tells cnn, it looks at reports only to see if uk air space may have been compromised by hostile or unauthorized military activity. the new files also reveal that the u.s. spy plain called aurora could be behind a slew of reported sightings in 1993. one official briefing note said there were unusual ufo sightings over britain involving descriptions that matched some of the reported characteristics o of the so-called aurora. the new files debunked some other incidents and showed some sightings are just plain strange and unplaned. >> i don't know what the answer

is. >> the latest release, the fourth time britain has gone public with ufo files. president obama and his counterpart from egypt, meeting in the white house and making news. we are monitoring it.

he also says that president obama expressed concerns about needed reform in egypt's system. mubarak says he has implemented some concerns. mr. obama thanks mubarak for bringing the palestinians back to the negotiating table. a wave of violence swept afghanistan. two soldiers were killed. in the capitol of kabul, a suicide bombings killed seven civilians there and two u.n. staff members. a rocket attack was carried out

against the presidential palace. taliban asked foreign voters to stay away from the polls on thursday. they will hold off an offensive mission unless absolutely necessary and then the focus on protecting the voters. assassination attempts kidnapped from a hotel room, beaten by south korean police. all of that and more happened to the former south korean president. he never surrendered. today, his remarkable life came to an end. he died at a hospital in seoul after a battle with pneumonia. he was 85. perhaps his greatest achievement, inwithing the nobel peace prize. you have the right to bear arms and to raise eyebrows. if you bear those arms, just outside a building where the president is giving a speech. ♪

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keep your eye on the man with the gun. the cops did yesterday. a health care protest drew several protesters with guns and a semi-automatic rifle. they say no laws were broken and no threat was posed. >> he was just exercising his constitutional right, posed no threat and was constantly monitored by officers in uniform or plainclothes officers. we showed the world that not only do we have those rights but we use them correctly and peaceful. >> the rifleman tells us he is exercising his rights as an american in arizona. a man with a gun showed up at a presidential event last week in new hampshire. there, too, it was legal. in our health care focus segment, we. >> meet a woman whose husband

could not save potentially life-saving treatments. he passed away. now, she is using art to draw attention to health care reform. >> well, my name is regina, i am doing something called the medical advocacy neural project. painting murals in washington, d.c. about how we need health care reform. this one is about the case of my husband's hospitalization in a three-month period while he was suffering from kidney cancer before he passed away on june 17th. our experience was so horrific. i saw so many things happen i saw so many things happen to other people. i thought, we had to do something. >> you are doing a wonderful thing. >> well, thank you. i'm hopeful we will get change, that it is going to change things doing this. anybody can do this. feel empowered, take control of your life, change things. you can paint a painting, do a demonstration, talk about it.

>> what's with the lady being bound? >> the medical person is bound. because of the waste in the system, she has got her hands tied. >> and there is a patient waiting for care. it is so accurate of what we have now. it is tragic that it had to be painted. >> i would do more if i could. be brave. >> thank you. people are going, universal health care is all fixed. no, no, it is not fixed. the system has major, major problems throughout. >> would it be great to have universal health care, yes? but, if we fund universal health care but the health care we have is abyss mal, what are we doing? if a year ago or two years ago or three years ago, we had passed health care reform. if people like myself who suffered and saw what happened had come forward, we could have changed things. it's too late for my husband. it is not too late for hundreds of other people. all those people are waiting in

the wings to live. we have to do everything we can to make sure they live. >> as you know, we have been talking about health care on all levels, in particular the military. the president spoke to the vfw yesterday. so we focus on health care for our hill tary and their families. once again, we just want to show you a number of websites that we have followed and monitored for you. in particular, issues of mental health like suicide rates that have gone up among our military ptsd and a lot of families wondering where they can help, how they can get support and finally, the military coming forward and talking about how new programs are going ton implemented within the arm any in particular. these are three websites that we are bond of, real warriors is one website that actually has a live chat that goes on on a regular basis. they have these outreach centers that you can dial into here and also a suicide prevention hotline. another one that we have admired

next to realwarriors is newdirectionsinc.org. they are talk about assistance in obtaining benefits, housing and employment for our vets. as you know, we talked about this website, ptaps.org. they have a good brief camp for kids and a suicide survivors seminar. they do woon der full thing for the kids and families. three websites, real warriors, new directions and also taps. g

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let's listen in. >> when he talks about the essentials of health care reform, let's understand the essentials. we have to cut costs for families in small businesses. that's essential. what's essential is ensuring that we provide accessability to millions of others who don't currently have it. >> when you say a public option is the president's preferred choice -- >> i said that repeatedly. >> so is the public option an essential part of health reform? >> i think the president answered that on saturday. >> so why did -- >> no, no, no. >> why did the health care secretary say no? >> what did the president says on saturday. >> the seblcretary said on sund it was not. >> what did the president say on saturday? >> i spoke positively about a public option but also said we may have it, we may not have it. >>. did he use the word essential?

>> i don't have the transcript but if he did use the word essential, why did his health secretary not use the word essential. >> they said the same thing on saturday as they did on sunday. go back and look at the transcript. >> why did she say it is not? >> you can't answer that. >> go find the transcript and i promise you, you will answer your question and wonder why you were phrasing it the way you did. you seemed to have heard what the secretary said on sunday but not what the president said on saturday. >> that's not what he said. >> go back and take a gander at the transcript. >> understanding that the president believes the public option is the best way, to force private insurance companies to bring down their prices, is the president convinced that co-ops. are a viable alternative to the public option? is he convinced that cost savings could come from --

>> jake, in all honesty, i don't think anybody has seen a level of detail thus far that would -- that you would be able to make a completely educated assumption on what we've seen. >> he said on sunday that the votes are not there in the senate for the public option. do you guys agree? >> i would have to talk to them on that. i think that's what a lot of people have said. >> but you guys are involved -- >> i haven't talked to them recently. >> also, a thing i wanted to review in a letter sent to the white house from the national association of postal supervisors shall the president of the union said that you, meaning the president, chose the postal service as a scapegoat in an example of inefficiency. has the president seen that letter, has he responded, does

he regret using the post office as an example of inefficiency? >> i doubt if he has seen that letter and don't have any reason to believe he regrets it. >> the aclu put in an information for request. they responded saying, we have information. we are not going to give it to you. does that live up to the president's promises of transparency give thant pentagon has released that information about gitmo detainees? >> i saw your blog on this. i have not seen the letter and don't have any other information on it. >> the senate finds the issue of whether or not over the weekend makes a difference? what your policy position is consistently is that the public option, while being the preferred method, is not a deal breaker? >> you should talk to ed.

that's what he said in june, in july. >> so, woulding from that premise that we can all agree on, what's the state of position today? >> we can. >> that does not give much comfort to many? >> before the ama, the president never said it is not a deal breaker. >> just relax. >> did the president ever tell these men that it was a deal breaker? >> thank you for that. >> i'm not sure whether we should go on or not. >> okay. my question is, assuming this has been a consistent position, this is the position that really bothered the democratic members of congress. we are seeing it probably expressed more than we had in the past because maybe they were unclear that this has been the administration's position all along.

what the president is saying is that the public option, at the end of the day, is optional. i guess, my question is, what are you going to say to members of congress who say, if there is no public option i many not in this? >> i would say it is the preferred option. >> does that give them a lot of comfort. >> i am not a democratic member of congress. >> i will point you back to what the president said. ed has my transcript. on saturday. the president strongly believes that we have to have and i mentioned -- i walked through the notion of why choice and competition are so fundamentally important to this debate, in a monopoly, without consumer choice and competition among health insurance providers, you are certainly not likely to see them cutting cost. you are certainly not likely to see a competition on quality. those are the goals that the president has.

>> is it inherent in the president's position consistent or not is that he could envision a scenario in which he is without a public option. >> he cannot envision a scenario in which we live with anything that doesn't provide choice and competition in a private insurance market that allows people to get the best deal possible on both the price and quality if they enter a private health insurance market. that's what the president's bottom line is. do we have a system that provides that choice for consumers and that competition among insurers on quality and cost. >> it is acceptable to the president but not acceptable to members of congress in the democratic party, that's okay with you? >> well, the president is focused on many different things, cutting kofltcosts, cov for millions who don't have accessability, making it deficit

neutral and ensuring choice and competition. that's what's important to the president of the united states. >> real quickly, have there been any cause between the president or ron or david or any of these folks to members of congress who are concerned about that? >> the president was fishing out west. david is in michigan. i doubt they are. >> have you seen this charge from republicans on the hill that they are asking is he profiting from the payment he is getting from this firm? >> that's ridiculous. david has left his firm to join public service. >> did he get a payout? >> that agreement was made because david started and owned the firm. he left the firm. if i'm not mistaken, he is being paid for the fact that he

created it and sold it, which i think is somewhat based on the free market. >> what message will the president be delivers to religious groups? >> he is going to talk about again. you are not going to see a difference in message. you are going to see the boring consistency of ensuring that we cut costs, ensuring that we take the steps that are necessary to relieve the burden on families and small business. obviously, the president will talk about the importance of providing access to affordable health insurance for millions of those that currently don't have it. >> focusing on the uninsured rather than the public option? >> the president will continue to talk about what he thinks is important in health care and it will include all of those options. mark? >> robert, is the white house

taken aback by the $7 million pace authorized for the new ceo of aig. >> i believe this is an agreement that we will go through the process of ken fineberg to ensure it is consistent with his principles. obviously, the board wants to find a ceo that is knowledgeable about insurance companies and running an insurance company and hopefully getting an ailing company that was once successful that somebody had the bright-eyed ya of putting a hedge fund on. >> aig is the company that was 80% owned but taxpayers maybe $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 a year. why shouldn't taxpayers feel like suckers if they see the ceo of a government-owned company

getting $7 million a year? >> the board is going to make a decision. we've talked about the president -- the president has talked about, we are not micromanaging these companies. government is not making these decisions. the board wants an insurance company ceo who can help take a company that was once successful, somebody had the bright-eyed ya of putting a hedge fund on top of it and is now a royal mess. the board wants to see some good, competent leadership that can lead the company back towards profitability. >> on another issue, does president obama ever speak with either bill or hillary clinton about health care? >> i don't -- obviously, the secretary of state is in the oval office today as part of the

larger delegation meeting. obviously, president clinton, as we've talked about, will be here later today. i don't know to what degree they have discussed health care. >> we asked you a couple times. you said you were going to check on it. have you actually asked? >> i haven't asked and i will be honest with you, that i am not entirely sure that imnot going to keep private conversations between somebody like the secretary of state or the former president between the current president. >> can you talk about whether the administration will come back in -- will it be in december that it will come out? >> i saw that right before i came out here. obviously, i think the illusion is to have the u.n. general assembly meeting to that third week in september. i think it will be an important opportunity to continue to make

progress. >> health care reform and the public option, this has been the talk of the town on the morning shows over the weekend. of course, we have been talking about it all afternoon. our ed henry just a few minutes ago taking robert gibbs there to task about it. take a listen at the exchange they had. >> the president, his position, the administration's position is unchanged, that we have a goal of fostering choice and competition in a private health insurance market. the president prefers the public option as a way of doing that if others have ideas, we are open to those ideas and willing to listen to those details. that's what the president had said for months. coincidentally, that's what the secretary of health and human services has said for months. it's what i've said for months. i think the suggestion somehow that anything that was said saturday or sunday has been new administration policy is just not something that i would agree with.

>> a lot of people took it as -- >> meaning the media? >> no. your supporters. supporters in congress do read it as a change. >> if you look at what the president said to the ama on june 15g9, quote, the public option is not your enemy. it is your friend. he is not saying that anymore. >> what do you mean? >> he is no longer pro actively, forgetting about what he he is lifg in or out. >> can i finish my question? >> no. i will finish my answer. the president was clear in two questions that he received at the town hall meeting on saturday about the public option. the second question, which is a man in the red shirt over on the right-hand side, asked about the public option. the second to last question, the guy about the debate in the second or third row right off the podium had the same

question. let me read this to you, ed. you will notice, let me just read. secretary sebelius, july 12th, 2009. you think you are going to hear from senators that a variety of strategies to get tie public option. this isn't one-size, fits all. i think the president said we can have competition and how to bring that into the private marketplace. there are probably a variety of strategies, all of which are on the table. any guess on what network that was on? >> i am sure it was on cnn. >> a very correct assumption. so on sunday, she was also on cnn and said that the public option is not the essential part of health reform. >> she didn't say that on july 12th or whenever you picked it up. >> on june 15th, the ama, repeatedly the president proactively said the public option was the way to go. >> i just said it was the preferred option. >> why did he on saturday say, if there is a public option or

there is not. then, the secretary on sunday says, it is not the essential part. >> no. no. the president said that on saturday. he said if there is one or not one. he hadn't said that before. well, answer that one part before you get around. he had not said -- >> the president had said repeatedly that he is open to different ideas and discussions, that his preferred option was the public plan. he said that on saturday. he said that on saturday. i said that on sunday. >> so bottom line, what does the public option really mean? it has a lot of americans stirred up. it has a lot of journalists there stirred up. the whole conversation in general focusing on the issue of the public option. tom foreman tries to put it into perspective for us. >> reporter: if you want to understand what's really happened with this whole health reform debalt, think of the insurance business as a big shopping mall where there are a

bunch of private stores that sell insurance. the supporters of reform don't really say they don't really compete with each other. so they let the prices get higher and higher. there are people who don't go anywhere and don't fit into insurance reform. the goal of reformers, many of them, is to say, let's have a government insurance office in the middle of this mall they will be heavily funded, give a place for these people to go so they will have some kind of place o to have insurance and because they are offering a lower cost alternative, they will force the other places to lower their prices and effectively have a sale that will benefit everyone. critics say, instead of having a sale, what they are going to have is people that are driven out of business. there will simply be not enough business once all these people start being attracted to the more cost, less expensive

government insurance. the bottom line is this is the fear of those who say this is a bad idea. so if this does not happen, then what do you look at? >> one other option is an insurance cooperative system. what is that? an insurance cooperative would take people all across the country who can't afford insurance, no matter where they are, and it would connect all of these people to each other. by connecting them, it would make it possible for these people to share the cost of their medical expenses with each other. they would form a small, private insurance company that they would run with their own board of directors. it's a nonprofit. it would also create competition for existing insurance companies but possibly push the prices down. at least that's the theory. but, this is also very much up in the air as to exactly how it would work, who would be involved and what it would really cost and what the benefits might or might not be.

>> shutting the door on a death row appeal, a texas judge is quoted as saying, with he clothes at 5:00. hours later, a man is executed. now, this judge is on trial herself.

sharon keller refused to look at the last stitch appeal of an inmate because the paperwork was after 5:00 p.m. the inmate was put to death at 8:00. some of you sent us strong opinions about this story. mike cooper rights, so why was the petition not filed before 5:00 p.m. on the execution date. seems like the counsel's fault, not the judges. the lawyers in the case had 20 years to file an appeal. so why wait until the last minute possible? why were any others filed? country lady 1 says this, that's a sorry excuse when a man's life

is the issue. finally, to put it simply, justice shouldn't clothes at 5:00 p.m. thanks to all these various tweets. appreciate it. we'll be back here tomorrow. rick sanchez takes it from here. coming at you right now, new video that reveals what you need to know about this man. how do you steal more than 130 million credit card accounts? police say it is the most ever. how did he do it. >> his career is not a concern of mine. summer of the scorned first lady of south carolina carry. what she says about the argentine mistress and about her husband's addiction problem. las fotos del dia. he weighing