though. ♪ >> reporter: all right. from keyboard cats to pitbulls. i'm suzanne malveaux in the "situation room." up next is "lou dobbs tonight." lou. >> thanks, suzanne, the white house insisting the president wants to sign a health care bill with republican support but top democrats saying they're ready to shut republicans out of the process to achieve their goals no matter how they do it. democratic sources telling cnn at the end of the day, a win is a win. also, after failing to convince the american people on the health care plans and town halls all across this country. president obama is changing its pitch. now emphasizing the emotion, and moral responsibility of health care. and the one thing our elected officials on the national media aren't talking about, jobs. tonight we talk about jobs, continuing our special series of reports, on the critical issue of jobs and jobs now.

live from new york, mr. independent, lou dobbs. >> good evening it seems inevitable tonight that president obama will try to pass his health care plans with democratic vote as lone. top democrats are focused on a go it alone strategy trying to repair deep divisions within their own party rather than negotiate with republicans, a top white house adviser told cnn, quote, at the end of the day. they will remember we got health care reform done, a win is a win. the obama administration says it has full public support. >> i think there are millions of people out there, that know, that are quite frankly part of our political base, and others that are independents or

republicans that believe it's time the health care system changed, that we need reform and can't continue to do what we're doing now. recent polls contradict the white house claims especially when it comes to independents. a quinnipiac university policy said two-thirds of dependents disapprove of the president's handling of health care. and 70% disagree with the go it alone strategy and puts the president's approval rating at an all-time low at 51%. june r joining us our team of reporters covering the story. ed henry, dana bash and jessica yell yellin. ed, what are the numbers from the white house. plunging poll number reversal and seeming reversals on the public option, to the point it's unclear to many exactly where the white house is. >> robert gibbs insisted today the president is still hopeful

he can get a bipartisan deal. the fact of the matter is, as you know, advisers to this president are privately very actively considering that option you're talking about muscling it through the senate with the simple majority instead of 60 votes. the reason they're doing that, they're not in broad r good shape despite what they're saying publicly. in fact speech after speech, pr offensive after pr offensive. this health reform is not selling to republicans or some conservative democrats. not so much the republicans have been against the president they've been against him since essentially day one it's conservative democrats in the middle that are not buying are this. >> what has changed that the democrats are talking about bipartisanship and next breath, going it alone? >> not much, except one thing, that's the calendar, lou. we're getting closer to september when congress is going to come back and that really is the time when this is not a joking around deadline.

it is the deadline where they have to decide whether or not they're going to have to move forward on this health care bill. for some time privately we've been told for some time by democrats, despite the fact that they are encouraging these bipartisan talks, publicly, privately, they don't think it is going to -- that they're going to find success. what they're doing is laying the ground work for what they have for some time is the inevitable, which is that they will have to pull the plug on the bipartisan talks and try to push forward to do this with just democrats, lou. >> let's return to this idea of going alone or reconciliation, if i may. but first, jessica, you've been to a lot of town hall meetings. let's listen to this question put to senator ben nelson at his town hall meeting today. >> this is not specifically directed towards you, but it is directed towards the white house, and pelosi, ried and waxman. as a famous columnist wrote p-robert novak who recently died, he stated always love your

country never trust your government and a government that can give you everything can take everything away. at this time, senator nelson, i don't trust my government. >> the issue of trust, jessica. people across the country, no matter what they think about health care reform. that seems to be underlying a lot of the expression of constituents in those town hall meetings. >> absolutely, lou. among the critics of health care reform that is the message we hear about consistently. it's an intense anxiety of deep distrust. government of politicians, and of their leadership. they don't believe they're being told the truth. so it's not just the politicians, it's also the media. if you say these are the fact collects that counter what you've just been told, they don't buy them. so it's become very hard for these members to even engage in a constructive conversation, because so many of these people are unwilling to believe anything that's out there, because there's the deep, deep,

deep distrust of the government and the fact there's not a single health care bill that they can point to as a finished product makes it even harder to dispel any myths. >> and just in a sense of some fairness here to those constituents in those town hall meetings, jessica, there is no plan before them, they've been lied to by the previous administration, by this administration, you can put that in a lot of ways that you want. whether it's on efficiency, savings and budget neutrality of these proposals, they look at that as a lie. there is a great reason, empirical basis, expirational basis. not as some in congress suggested, some sort of mad lunatic fringe. >> well, the people i've encountered at these events talk not about the mistrust but the next phrase they use, lou is

unfairness of what happened with the economic policy of theed amin station, how they're suffering and it's this sense of being squeezed and the government isn't helping them. >> jessica, now reports from politico today about a conflict of interest p-a possible conflict of interest, for the president's senior political adviser, david axelrod on health care and health care advertising. what is the white house saying about that now? >>. >> robert gibbs asked about it yesterday, while david axelrod's former firm, the one he founded in chicago is involved in these health care ads they insist he's not benefitting. he's left, they have to do that for et cal reasons of course. nevertheless he got a big pay outto leave. he defended that by saying this is the free mark. it made a lot of money over the years and he got that payday. obviously talking about with jessica. she hit the nail on the head with the mistrust, distrust with

government. one white house said to me. one thing they may mistrust is death of the danger over the bailouts. and when they push this option, government run, people per frustrated with the bailouts that piled up, as you say they don't trust the government. that took the white house off the early stride. nevertheless they are confident they'll pull this out. >> it's a little surprising that it took them by surprise. spending time with members of congress before they did leave for the august recess, especially conservative democrats who went to the white house many times they were open, from what they were already hearing. bailouts, all of the policies they've seen from the administration, the stimulus is another great example of huge spending that they, out there, just don't see working. that is definitely contributing to this health care issue. >> and with all of the members back -- nearly all of them, back in their districts, they are

hearing from those constituents, whether they like it or not and that seems to be having a significant effect not only on the direction for health care reform but also on the -- some change in tone pitch and possibly all together, the strategy tore this white house, jessica. >> for the white house, the white house has to do -- has to do a better job and right now they're in a wait and see mode. they don't want to make any final decisions on this until they see if the republicans lead the table, see if they can get done, they know the public is not on board yesterday and outrage is a problem. >> all right. jessica, thank you very much. dana, thank you and thank you very much. turning now to foreign pop, p north korea apparently ready to begin talks with the united states according to an aide to new mexico, governor bill richardson. meeting today in new mexico with two north korean diplomats. north koreans said release of

two american journalists entitles them to talks on the nuclear program. white house officials said there is no change in policy towards north korea and governor richardson is not negotiating on behalf of the president, leaving open the question on whose behalf is he negotiating. a series of explosions rocked baghdad today. at least 95 people were killed and deadliest day since the combat troops handed over major cities to iraqi forces two months ago. a truck bomb sent shrapnel and debris flying. six bomb blasts were reported. nearly 560 people were wounded in those attacks. iraqi officials blaming al qaeda and other radical insurgents. in afghanistan, six troops have been killed over the past two days. five killed on enemy action. six of a nonbattle injury. violence in afghanistan is on

the rise. country preparing for national elections tomorrow. six election workers were killed yesterday. taliban militants have been carrying out attacks across the country, trying to disrupt the election. president bush karzai is running for a second term. his foreign minister is the principle challenger among the three dozen presidential candidates. up next tonight's face-off debate should the goal of health care be the government-run system and what lessonis can we learn from socialized medicine in other facials. tonight we report from one that's supposed to be among the very best. sweden. and jobs now, our nightly report on who's helping. millions of out of work americans find jobs. and what happened to the promise of millions of new jobs? we'll be right back. there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight?

if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested. ...or if you're already sick... ...or if you lose your job. your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies.

supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on. well, tonight we continue our series of special reports, jobs now. we're reporting on what happened to that initiative to create millions of new jobs in this country. our unemployment rate has nearly doubled in less than two years, now stands a 9.4%, more than 30

million people without johns are working part time instead of full time. the obama administration passed an almost $800 billion economic stimulus package, and at the same time. promised millions of new jobs would be created or saved. billions upon billions of dollars have gone out the door, but that has not resulted in job growth that many expected. lisa sylvester has our report. at this new york state labor department career center, laid-off workers tweak their s resumes and look for job leads. the job search is tough. >> the way i've been seeing it since i got laid off, if you don't know somebody in the job, you will not get the job. >> it's a lot of competition out there. i'm kind of specializing my field. there are very few jobs out there. there's lots mover applicants out there. >> the national unemployment rate, 9.4%. that doesn't take into account

those who were under employed. or working at the time. president obama promised 3 million to 4 million jobs would be saved or created by next year but the country is still shedding jobs, an average of 500,000 jobs a month have been lost since january. white house looks at it, as, well, things aren't less bad than they were last year and credits the $787 billion stimulus package. >> today, we're pointed in the right direction. we're losing jobs at less than half the rate we were when i took office. we pulled the financial system back from the brink. >> where are the labor unions on the issue? standing squarely behind the president. aflcio said stimulus slowed the rate of job decline but the pink slips continue to pile up. usa today gallup poll finds 50%

of americans find stimulus is not working. democrats say they inherited the financial mess but it's up to them to fix it. less leaning policy institute. >> less further policy action is taken. we're going to see jobs to continue to erode and unemployment arise for most of the next year and i undoubtedly will have the negative impact of the democrats chances next november. >> now, to just keep up with population growth, u.s. economy needs to add 127,000 jobs a month. but that has not been happening. we've been moving in the opposite direction, losing 6.7 million jobs in the last 19 months. that's a very big hole to dig out of. lou. >> absolutely. and is there consternation in washington? no one is talking about more than 30 million people who are -- effectively who are unemployed in this country. it hasn't been the focus of principle public policy discussion in either congress or the white house, in some time

now. >> yeah. you're absolutely right about that. in fact what the white house keeps saying, they keep pointing to the stimulus package theying it needs to time to work. many people on the ground don't have time. they have a mortgage to play and family to feed. that has not trickled down to them. >> unemployment benefits for many nearing their end. we should point out only $100 billion of the economic stimulus package has been put into the 4 $14 trillion economy. $100 billion, that is half of what has been spent on one company alone. aig. lisa, thank you very much. lisa sylvester. a major american company recently emerging from bankruptcy is adding jobs. general motors calling back nearly 1300 of laid-off workers, gm needs them to build additional 60,000 cars. 10,000 gm workers on the job will see increase in overtime.

cash for lunchers program being credited with increasing demand according to gm. one executive said he expects additional increases until next year. car dealers across the country still waiting to be paid by the federal government for their participation in the cash for clunkers program. some dealers find themselves on the cash crunch while waiting for reimbursement from the federal government. in new york, hundreds of car dealers dropped out of the program because of delays. transportation secretary ray lahood day said he understands their frustration and said, quote, they are going to get their money. he did not say when. the cash for clunkers program offers rebates up to $4500 to trade in for newer, more fuhr-efficient ones. i'll have a few thoughts about that, including cash for clunkers program, job creation and all of the issues today. join me on the radio monday through friday for the lou dobbs

show. wor-710 in new york. go to loudobbs.com to get local listings. subscribe to the daily podcast. and today, congressman hopes to uncedar len specter offering up his support for a public option. hear that interview by describing to our pod cat on duedobbs.com. and join us on twitter. up next does the president think doctors are worth more money than practicing medicine and helping their patients? >> doctors may look at reimbursement system and say i'll make more money if i take this kid's tonsils out. >> we'll ask experts on the face-off debate and report on the quality of sweden's health care system. all receive the same care.

they say imports always get the best mileage. well, do they know this malibu offers an epa estimated 33 mpg highway?

they never heard that. which is better than a comparable toyota camry or honda accord? they're stunned. they can't believe it. they need a minute. i had a feeling they would. there's never been more reasons to look at chevy.

we continue our coverage of health care systems around the world. we're examining public health care systems to see what we might learn. tonight, it's the state of health care in sweden.

sweden, ranking fifth in a european survey of health care quality. the life expectancy, by the way, in sweden is 81 years. that's three years more than in this country. all in sweden, by the way, are covered and the level of care in each instance is identical, regardless of financial standing or whether or not you work for the government. kitty pilgrim has our report. >> in sweden, people go to a publicly run health care center for all medical needs. the clinics are run by the 21 separate counties in sweden. doctors work on straight salary for the clinic. richard salzman has been studying and working with the swedish health care system for 25 years. >> over all it's an etech fffec system. >> the life expectancy 81 years verse 7 in the united states. health care costs, less than

16%. spending half. >> and there is one doctor for every 277 people, compared to 1 in 416 for the u.s. out of pocket expenses are low. they are capped at $400 a year. but people pay 14% income tax to the county on top of national income taxes. the total tax burden is above 50%. >> from an individual perspective, you do not pay when you get services. where you do pay, of course, is in the structure of taxes. which is the highest in the oecd. highest amongst the developed countries. >> the health coverage is very generous. women receive a year and a half of maternity leave at 80% of salary. also people pay sick leave through their employer and after two weeks through government funds. this man has a ph.d. and studied

sweden extensively. >> in sweden, they believe sickness should not be a punishment, if you are out of illness due to illness they compensate you for income that's lost due to that illness. >> reporter: new arrivals and immigrants are all covered. politicians and residents get identical care. >> the wealthy industrialist gets care from the same facilities and doctors for their clinical needs. there are no differences between citizens. >> reporter: there are down sides. sweden has problem was waiting lists for election tiv surgery and other noncritical treatment. there is also a public push for more individual doctor choice. now, sweden is trying to improve the doctor-patient relationship, trying to link doctors to individual patients. the impersonal nature has caused

discontent in sweden. also another issue, a fifth of the population is over the age of 65. that will start to put pressure on health costs in the future, lou. >> something that won't happen in this country for at least 15 to 20 years. i mean, people have got to be watching that report thinking, my god, 80% of pay for a year and a half of maternity leave. that's pretty good. >> it's very attractive, but the taxes are very high. >> what are are the taxes? >> that's above 50%. >> just about 50%. well, no such thing as a free lunch or free maternity care, i suppose, maternity leave. after a year and a half, that's really leaving. >> and the job is guaranteed when you come back. >> i think people saying -- >> let's move to sweden. >> i was thinking else. kitty pilgrim. thanks a lot. we'll continue coverage of

health care systems around the world. we'll report on health care in greece. friday we'll report on iceland. two fascinating examples of public -- ireland, excuse me, which we will be -- two fascinating examples of public health care. up next, democrats saying they are ready to go it alone on health care, but what are the risks of shutting republicans out of the process, and can they do it anyway? and tonight's face-off debate. is a government-run health care choice the only option or is there a better way? and tonight, a hero mayor speaks out. >> i think it's fair to say that things got very, very ugly, very, very quickly. >> the dramatic account of milwaukee's mayor. was beaten with a pipe as he rushed to the aid of a grandmother to save a 1-year-old child.

here again, mr. independent, lou dobbs. >> how with the government provide up to 30 million unsured americans quality health care and none of that is spelled out? in fact there is great uncertainty about the numbers. best guesses range anywhere from

8.2 million to 20 to 30 million. president obama has outlined several areas that he wants to overall. first, the insurance companies. and now doctors. in july, president obama had this to say about pediatricians. >> right now, doctors, a lot of times are forced to make decisions, based on fee payment schedule that's out there. so if they're looking, and you come in, and you got a bad sore throat, or your child has a bad sore threat or repeated sore throats. the doctor may look at the reimbursement system and say to himself, you know what, i make a lot more money if i take this kid's tonsils out. >> and just last week in a town hall meeting in new hampshire. president obama seemed to suggest doctors treating diabetics which use amputation over preventive medicine. >> if a family care physician

works with his or her patient to help them lose weight, modify diet, monitors whether they're taking their medications in a timely fashion, they might get reimbursed apittens, but if that same diabetic ends up getting their foot amputated, that's 30,000, 40,000, $50,000. immediately the surgeon is reimbursed. >> well, those doctors, men and women who took an oath to practice medicine ethically are not the highest paid members in our society. according to "modern health care" which puts out a survey. doctors in emergency medicine made 224 to $327,000. internal medicine makes $180,000 to $222,000 a year. pediatrician, $150,000 to $217,000. average registered nurse

$58,000. to put this in some perspective. average salary for a soccer players. $135,000. annual average play for a national football league player. 1.5 million dollar a year. average annual salary major league baseball player. $3 million. players in the nba earning per year just $5 million a year. in tonight's face-off debate, is universal health care the solution for the country? aarp representing some 40 million americans, policy and public affairs director for the association of american physicians and surgeons, her association said universal health care doesn't work. good to have you both here. let's begin with david, first. is universal health care the so-called public option, single pay, however you want to break

it down, why has the aarp not come up with its own solution, and we've heard the president say twice, that you guys are on board with what he's doing. >> well, we do have universal coverage available for those age 65, obviously called medicare. it's a program that worked very well. people are happy. we know about our members not yet eligible. those 50 to 64 have a difficult time finding an insurance company that will ensure them. especially if they have a pre-existing condition. and if they can't afford it it's not an affordable price if it's available. we need to have affordable health insurance accessible to ha all people in the society. >> for many, the aarp isn't clear. do you want the public option? do you support, as the president said, are you on board with him or are you not in you said first it was inaccurate. he repeated the statement, you didn't say anything. this is the opportunity tonight to straighten us all out.

>> we've been supportive of president's efforts to improve coverage and lower costs. we've not endorsed any specific plan as of yet. we keep working with congress, members and the president to get a good health care plan. we need to reform the health care system. >> katherine, do the doctors you represent disagree or agree? >> well, i can't let it go by. the idea that politicians would be out accusing doctors of just worrying about money is the -- how ludicrous that is is ridiculous. also, i would make a note many executives at aarp make more than the doctors averages that you just mentioned. so back to the public plan, you know, there's a problem here that the dirty little secret is it doesn't matter whether there's a public plan or not, as long as there's an insurance mandate we'll go down the road and end up with some sort of government medicine. >> do you want to respond to

that, dave? >> in some respects she's right. it doesn't matter if there's a public plan option or private plan option or if there's competition between the two. what we're looking for is the end goal which is get affordable health insurance. generally right now that means changing insurance company practices. we know insurance companies deny people insurance if they have pre-existing conditions. if they're holder, they'll charge them sometimes seven times much more to make them unaffordable. >> are you in the insurance business? >> no, i'm not. >> is aarp in the insurance business? >> we put our brand name on some products being sold but we're not in the insurance business. >> you have a commercial relationship with the insurance industry? >> we sell through some affiliations and get royalties on it. >> that puts an intriguing twist on things, does it not? >> no, we've been in the insurance business in terms of us being involved in health insurance from our members from the beginning. that's how aarp was started. our policy drives what our products are. when we think there's a gap in

the market -- >> i happen to be a great believer in capital ice im, i believe in laying things out where they belong. your thoughts -- i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i think that that's true. that obviously, they have a financial interest. you know, lou, we all have a financial interest in this as patients or doctors, or as business owners, we all have financial interests. whole point is to be transparent about it. i want to go back to what he just said, which is that there's agreement that there should be universal coverage. we don't agree there should be universal coverage. universal coverage. universal insurance is not care. coverage is not care. having a piece of paper that says that you have an insurance policy, whether it's a private plan or public plan, doesn't matter. just ask anybody who -- in canada who has that piece of paper and has a right to care, but they can't get the care that they want, waiting times and there aren't doctors available. >> both of you charge with

distortions, we're hearing the president saying misrepresentations, i don't remember the exact express he used today basically saying people are lying. there's no harm saying exactly what we mean. he's saying people are lying, those are my words, not precisely his. i don't think there's any doubt people are lying in this edate. how do we sort it all out, because we've heard the president, as i mentioned, one misrepresentation he made twice, saying that you guys were on board with him, you denied that outright. we have people saying universal health care will be the end of western civilization, we know better because we've been reporting here for about three weeks that there are public health care systems in the world that work brilliant. so what is the big lie that's distorting the debate from your perspective and from yours? >> i think there are many big lies in this debate. a complicated bill -- >> do you want to start with

your own or someone else's. >> one thing we're hearing from our members. particularly medicare is that there is somehow some kind of racialing of the care they get. >> what would happen if you cut $500 billion out of medicare? >> if you did it the wrong way, we would have problems. >> just be honest. whether one calls it rationing, you're talking about cutting medicare. there will be consequences. >> we're talking about removing wasted inefficiency from the system because for many reasons one we know anyone who has experience with health care knows there's waste and efficiency we need to cut back on. we improve care if we cut back on unnecessary health care. we also do it for the medicare program. health care costs going out of control. it's costing the medicare program and beneficiaries paying for it a lot of money. >> katherine, real quickly. biggest lie concerning you? >> biggest lie concerning us is doctors are behind this. ama would have you believe all of the doctors are in lock stop

by hyped this. and it's clear ama was going to have a place at the table. spend lobbying money to get a place at the table. they only represent 20% of doctors in the country. most are academic students or retired. >> let me ask you this real quickly. do you believe doctors and nurses should be among the highest paid people in our society? >> i think they should get what -- what they pay for. >> this is a simple thing. >> i think right now what we know we want to make sure doctors are paid fairly so they serve the medicare patients and the rest of the population. >> i think that doctors believe they should be paid what the market would pay them. what patient are actually receiving the services think it's appropriate amount to pay them. what we have is market distortion where the contracts are negotiated by third-party payers who aren't the people actually receiving the service. >> from our members' perspective, what's very important, they can have their choice of doctors. it's a very important issue.

one of the things we're fighting for on these bills. >> you get the last word, real quick. >> another big lie we have is that any of these bills will do anything. frankly the congress is even trying to solve it. i would say they are political maneuvererings to look like they're doing something. if they really wanted solutions, they take a look at real reforms that put patients in control, rather than the government. >> all katherine, thank you very much. david thank you. appreciate you being here. lisa sylvester, updating the stories. >> thanks, lou. hurricane bill now a category 4 storm. forecasters warn it may become stronger. right now the storm is over the atlantic ocean moving northwest toward bermuda. it's still too early to predict how close bill will come to the united states but forecasters expect the center of the storm to stay offshore. the former las vegas director of left wing advocacy group a.c.o.r.n. pleaded guilty today to charges of paying for voter

registrations. plea deal includes an agreement to testify against a.c.o.r.n. specifically former regional director. a director said a.c.o.r.n. had a policy of paying for new voters. a.c.o.r.n. is under inve investigation in ten states across the one r country. and the mayor of milwaukee spoke for the first time. he was attacked with a pipe after coming to the aid of a woman and 1-year-old granddaughter. he suffered a shattered hand, cuts to his face and head and lost two of his teeth but the popular mayor shrugged off being called a hero. >> anybody at all would have done the same thing. i would hope anybody would do the same thing. >> talking about being a hero he said his wounding of healing fine and he will take the rest of the week off. those are some stories we're

following tonight, lou. >> the mayor in that position because he wasn't using his security detail, even though he would have been entitled because he was taking his family to the fair. i -- you know, just a great story, especially when we have so little good to say about any election officials. >> yeah. >> thanks a lot. lisa sylvester. up next, an apparent conflict of interest in the white house calls for the president's top adviser. david axelrod to explain himself. showdowns across the country. as tough talking americans speak their minds both in congress and quinns. >> i'm trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with the dining room table. i have no interest in doing it. >> who says politicians and their constituents, exchange views? frank exchange of views. we'll be right back.

joining me now republican strategist. former white house political director, cnn contributor, ed rollins, good to have you here. white house reporter for politico. and democratic strategist. robert zimmerman, robert, good to see you. let's start. when asked which would be better, passage of the current bill working its way through congress, i love that expression. i'm not sure it's working its way through at all or no passage at all, the great majority said

it's not better to pass health care this year. robert it looks like the end game is near. >> the game has just started. wall street journal, nbc news poll out today said 60% of those sampled said the system should be overhauled. when you look at the fact -- ask people what they feel about obama's position his approvalle ratings jumped to 53%. my point this is a tough process but the process is under way. i think the -- i give congress extraordinary credit for trying to build a bipartisan coalition. >> now talking about bipartisanship? >> we're talking for it over a year now. >> mia. >> by staipartisanshbipartisans you know, he's holding them out there but not embracing it. i think bipartisan ship looks

different. i think he can pull off a few republicans but whether or not that's bipartisanship is still debatable. >> that's right. >> it seems to be shifting. a definition of bipartisanship. his strategy too. looks like they're going to talk about this in moral terms. edging around that discussion, mainly talking about it in economic terms. they shift the terms of debate, maybe they feel more focused. >> i don't disagree with that. i think if you talk in terms of morally the country has an obligation to take care of the any disadvantaged. we take care of elderly with medicare, our poor with medic d medicaid. i think the bottom line here, i think republicans are mistaken not to participate, they are not going to. won't be a republican vote. there are things that need to be ix iffed. insurance company thinks need to be fixed but at the end of the day this thing is so rushed

through and has been an open process. as they go to these town meetings they find out the country is very earn canned about it. my sense is that they'll pass something. democrats have to pass something, that it's not going to be what the president wants. >> you know what, i would agree in the sense it can't be a moral debate. the democratic message got to embrace 60% of americans who have no insurance and got to bring the elderly to feel comfortable and secure with their proposal. that's the strategy they have to per sue if they get this health program passed. i agree as far as this being an open process. this is going on for well over a year. there's public hearings from five different congressional committees. we're seeing what transpired in this recess and the debate is just warming up >> a lot of behind the scenes meetings. not an amendment added to any of this and -- >> i don't think -- this is a democratic plan. you got the 218, you got 60 in the senate, pass whatever you

want to pass but you pay a price at the end. >> today -- >> i'm going to intercede, because -- >> welcome to the -- >> welcome to the table. >> i mean, i think their innocence, among a lot of folks there is a lot of missing information here. whether or not that's the fact these have been closed-door sessions. people are having lots of concerns how to pay for this. look at the idea they're paying 40% cuts in medicare. seniors hear that they hear a cut in benefits. >> do you think they're being irrational when they hear they're going to take half a trillion dollars out of medicare that there's some consequence for them? doesn't that seem irrational? >> let me get the facts on the table before we decide whether it's rational or not. everybody in the government and medical community agrees there's waste that has to be addressed. that's worth exploring, i don't think we should shut down that debate.

other point. senator grassry talked about co-op plans, bipartisan initiative -- >> i have to interrupt you, we have to take a commercial break.

the presidential's approval rating down to 51%. the first democratic party down below 50%. for first time since president obama became president. today the obama administration has changed its tune on the marriage october. it is considered by the administration discriminatory. what will be the impact of such a declaration n. >> nothing if they don't change their actions. it is about time the democratic

administration comes out of the closet on issues like the defensive marriage act. it is not enough to change rhetoric. it is -- >> what do they have to do? >> it comes as a marriage act, this administration has to -- this administration has to stop pursuing legal actions to enforce it. >> i mean, there is going to be some movement on the issues. in september don't ask, don't tell becomes part of the argument about discrimination against gays. senate armed services committee will start taking that up in september. it looks like there is some leadership in the senate and the house with people pushing to repeal it. obama has been clear that he has been against these but also said he will defer to congress which a lot of people think he is saying one thing. >> mixed messages. he's getting very bad at this with the health care and issues like this. he wants to be loved by everybody. last president we had was just four presidents ago, jimmy carter, wanted to be loved by

everybody. early on was. terrible failure. the president is on that road. >> i think he wants to be loved by everybody. he got used to be love order the campaign and roaring crowds. she very thin-skinned and gibbs and the rest of them do, too. it is a tough, tough 3 1/2 years ahead. >> i think he adjusted pretty well. he has taken on bold initiatives and major issues. he's suffering in the polls from taking -- >> they weren't this tough until he started on them, it seems. i mean -- he went into it with a high approval rating on health care and cap and trade through the house. i mean, he had -- economic stimulus. it is as if this health care issue which they tried to closet, if i may continue the metaphor, the discussion within the house, keep it from public view, and the result has been disastrous for both his approval ratings and for the party.

>> president with high approval ratings at this time in their presidency and i will show you a president that's not prepared to spend capital. he put himself on the line and democratic congress has on the issues. >> i think that this whole -- we are really clear on what he is willing to spend his political capit capital. a lot of people thought he would push for the public option but seems like he is waffle on that. even with issues like the don't ask, don't tell it does not seem like he's willing to use political capital. think maybe the numbers will turn around once the economy turns around. >> the problem is he has been on the road three weeks now and dropped seven points. very much like skrornlg bush when he tried to sell social security. every time he made a speech his numbers dropped. this president has not made the sale on health care. >> 32 million americans struggling with unemployment and the number higher. thank you very much. thank you, nia, ed, robert. campbell brown at the top of the hour. >> hey, lou. tonight can democracy take root

in afghanistan? as you know, the threat of terror very real there. also ahead, new details on hurricane bill, where a very dangerous storm may land. and a government informant accused of carrying out the biggest case of i.d. theft in the u.s. had to get away with it for so long. also, we have the mayor who has been called a hero. more of what he had to say about trying to stop an attack on a woman and her baby granddaughter. we will see you in a few minutes. >> hero mayor. absolutely. look forward to it, campbell. thank you very much. we lob right back. there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested.

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stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. (announcer) 36-hour cialis. or cialis for daily use. ask your doctor about cialis today, so when the moment is right, you can be ready. the creator of sixth sixth don hewitt today died. he was 86. he battled pancreatic cancer and began his career at cbs in 148 working with edward r.murrow. hewitt developed many practices and now standard for broadcast journalists but his crowning achievement to creation of $60 minutes" in 1968. hewitt remained the show's