>> there he is. there's our guy. >> you can see all the most recent squirrels. thanks for watching. "lar i king" starts right now. see you tomorrow night. >> larry: elizabeth edwards debating health care reform for the first time and squares off on life and death issues with the former hhs secretary tommy thompson. is president obama's plan in critical condition? a health care reform debate exclusive. then bill cosby speaks out. explaining why he believes a well-schooled kid saved him money. plus, what's really out there? british government releases official ufo files. "newsweek" reports nasa is searching for aliens. if they do exist how do we make

contact? all next on "larry king live." two extraordinary lifted americans join us to discuss the health care question. elizabeth edwards. focusing on health care issues. she is the wife of the former democratic vice presidential candidate john edwards and "new york times" best-selling author of resilience. and madison, wisconsin, tommy thompson who is the secretary of health and human services under president george w. bush and as the former republican governor of wisconsin. elizabeth, in an interview last month, you said you thought that substantial -- substantive health care reform would be enacted. do you stand by that? >> i still do. incredibly optimistic and i think the american people are still in favor of health care reform despite the assault they had of a lot of hyperbole and

miss statements and people know in their real lives that they need -- they are going to need change. need change. in health care. nationally and in their own communities and in their own families. >> larry: in an interview with the ceo of better health, in february, you said you can bet your bottom dollar that the health care system that we know today is going to be changed so considerably that i doubt you would recognize it a year from now. do you stand by that? >> i stand by it because it already has many changes. in the stimulus package there was a comparative equivalent, $20 billion set aside for electronic medical records. there's a lot of other projects that have been already passed that's going to transform health care in the future. the truth of the matter is, i think the question you are getting at is what about the barack obama legislation and

what the democrats are doing in congress. i think the democrats are going to have a very difficult time passing a comprehensive bill unless they want to bring in the republicans and scale back and have a really comprehensive bipartisan bill. that's what i'm hoping they will. because i believe that elizabeth and i both agree that there -- needs to be comprehensive health care reform in america. but the kind of comprehensive health care reform is what really is going to be the most important item. i hope that it is a bipartisan one that i think can be passed and energetically and have a great deal of support in the country. >> larry: elizabeth, can that happen without the government being involved in kind of a quasi insurance company of its own? >> can we get -- pass health care reform? we can pass health care reform without having -- what is commonly referred to as a public option. which means that to compete with

your private insurers, united health care, cigna, blue cross/blue shield, you would have the federal government offering you the opening of insuring yourself through the government plan. i think it would be a huge mistake to pass anything -- any kind of reform without -- without that public option for a lot of reasons. one is that one of the things we want to do is make certain that we are striving to 46 million americans uninsured 25 million underinsured, a way of getting reliable transparent and cost-effective accessible -- cost accessible insurance and the way do you that is make certain you are going to have this option. so far, the -- private sector has not provided it. we all know that. insurance premiums are now $15,000. next year, $18,000 may be the average. in ten years, $36,000 a year for

a normal family. if we want those to be controlled we are going to have to have a public option. >> tommy, the republicans have fought that. why? what's wrong with the public option? >> well, if you want to really ruin health care in america, have the government run it. and everything elizabeth said, i have difficulties agreeing with because of public plan is really the tantamount to saying that health care has failed in america and we are going to turn it over to the government to run and regulate. the innovations that elizabeth wants for breast cancer and i want for breast cancer in america will be short-circuited and the new kinds of innovation and medicines will be put in the back burner. there will be certainly a reduction of reimbursements and the private health insurance companies that would more likely have to be retracted and reduced. 90% of the people like their health insurance and that's going to be changed because when you put the government in and have a public plan in the

government, you are going to have a shifting and even obama says, you know, that we are going to allow people to have their same health insurance. up can't with the public plan because it is going to be a shift. and if you want comprehensive health care, public plan is going to be tantamount to having a partisan democratic plan that i think is going to fail. >> elizabeth, why is the current operation so deficient? >> well, i -- i would like -- i want to answer that. i would also like to respond. i think that what -- tommy is saying that the -- governor is saying is that -- >> tommy. >> thank you, tommy. that -- is the mistaken language we hear, public option creates a government-run program. another part of what he said, though, if you listen to it, 90% of people are happy with their insurance.

we have 46 million people uninsured who would like to have insurance and have 10% unhappy with their insurance, looking for something else. those are the people that will be moving perhaps to a public option. you are not going to see some huge shift in the -- in the number of people who -- who go to private insurance. if private insurance does a good job of innovation, tommy and i agree about that, but they don't do such a good job of keeping their administrative costs down and keeping the costs of their insurance down. when -- when -- their health executives are paid $30 billion and -- a year and we had at least two major ceos, you can be pretty sure the health insurance costs of those policy holders are going to be higher than they need to be. and so if bee can keep those administrative costs down, maybe -- maybe lit have a good effect on both. maybe the government will be required to be more innovative and insurance companies forced to keep their costs down. >> i want to have tommy respond to that right after the break. still to come, bill cosby and more of elizabeth edwards and tommy thompson right after this.

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>> larry: tommy in response can you say the insurance companies in america are doing a wonderful job? no. of course i can't. there's some that do a wonderful job and some that do a poor job. let's face it. if you put the government in

here, and in which they don't have to have -- make a profit, they are going to be able to undersell any private health insurance company and -- >> larry: benefit from that. >> no, we wouldn't. if a company has -- is going to want to keep their own health insurance, the government selling their health insurance cheaper, companies will migrate towards that and you are going to see a demise of the private health insurance industry in the country. if you want the government to run insurance, look at medicare, it is going break. medicaid, breaking most of the states because of the cost. look at social security. everything that the government really runs has not measured up. we can -- we can -- >> larry: don't you think the people like medicare and social security? >> sure people do. the truth of the matter is they are going to broke. medicare is going broke this year. we can fix the health insurance industry. i'm not saying that the health insurance companies are perfect and should not be changed. we should.

we should allow for guaranteed issuance. allowing people to come in. we should be able to cover all of the items in america. do it in a competitive and free enterprise manner. that's the way that they have bipartisanship and that's the way -- fix the health care -- >> larry: why couldn't that work, elizabeth? >> because that's what we have been trying and it hasn't worked. always seems our costs go up and up. costs have doubled since 2009 -- 2000 to 2009. the cost of our insurance has gone up 119%. more than doubled. it is causing people to file bankruptcy. 62% or 61% of the people who file bankruptcy cite medical costs as a substantial part of the reason why -- they had to file bankruptcy. it is clearly not working. we are on a track right now where we could be paying in ten years for our health care system overall $40 trillion. we have to get ahold of this. tommy knows this. we can't stay on the same path we have been on. the very idea that -- the -- if the government does haven't to make a profit, therefore, they are going to be able to underprice the insurance companies, there are plenty of nonprofits. health net colorado has done an

analysis that said it didn't make any difference whether it was profit or non-profit company. the prices they were offering to consumers was the same. all too high. and we need somebody to be able to come in and put downward pressure. federal express and ups do fine in competition with the u.s. government. >> let me get call in. orlando, florida, hello. >> caller: yes. i would like to ask tommy thompson if my premium went from $500 a month five years ago to $2500 had an month today, does he feel that's fair? >> i have to know what kind of coverage you've got, whether you changed it, who you have it insured with. i'm not saying it is fair or unfair i don't know the facts. you know, you -- this is the issue that really is affecting whether or not we are going to have health reform. i want health reform in america. and the way to do that is look

at the things that bring us together and we can reach a bipartisan thing and it is going to really help trance health care in america and health insurance. number one, let's have something to do and change the system from a disease system to a wellness system. let's do something about chronic illness. let's manage diseases. let's do something about the kinds of things like diabetes, like cancers, and so on that we can really impact and reduce the cost of health care and 75% of the cost goes into chronic illness and we can really change that by doing that. it can be done on a bipartisan. let's have the electronic medical records, both parties want that. that's another 10% to 15% we can take out of the cost, hold down health insurance and the premiums and still improve the system. let's do things about cessation of smoking. all of these things can be done on a bipartisan basis and we can fix the health care and we can reduce the costs and we can make

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>> larry: we are back with elizabeth edwards and tommy thompson. debate over health care reform has gotten fierce. town halls have turned into town brawls. held by congressman barney brain. >> why do you consider the policy as obama had expressly supported this policy why are you supporting it? >> when you ask me that question, i am going to revert to my ethnic heritage and ask you your question with a question. on what planet do you spend most of your time? >> larry: elizabeth, is all of this deflecting away from the real debate? >> i think that it is. you -- you have seen the -- i think that tomorrow write would probably reject some of the language that you see used to hype up crowds.

and some of the posters you see. we don't -- we are not unplugging grandma as senator grassley said. we don't have death panels as senator kyl said. the kind of language generates an enormous amount anger and fear when we have -- as tommy and i can have reasonable discussions about the benefits or, you know, or -- from my perspective, the disadvantages of his perspective of a public option seems to be the center of the real controversy here. we agree about almost everything else. this seems to be the center. we could have a reasonable discussion but not when you use that kind of language. >> larry: tommy, would you agree? >> i think the language has gotten out of control. i think that both sides -- i think barney frank -- when barney frank comes out saying what planet do you live on, if i was an elected official saying that to my constituents, i would be upset. >> larry: the constituent just said your president was a nazi. >> well, the rhetoric is bad. i think that the elected officials have to temper their

remarks to. it is just both sides. i mean, it happens, you know, that a lot of hyperbole and a lot of accusations are going on. but the truth of the matter is that it is -- the american way. americans should have an opportunity to influence legislation. americans feel -- being crammed down their throats and they are upset about it. they are afraid of the spending and afraid of the trillion dollars more in deficits. and they feel that -- and i think rightly so, that the government is spending way too much money and we have to get it under control. i agree with elizabeth and myself. i think we need -- elizabeth and i can sit down and have a very constructive dialogue about public versus private. and i don't think we reached a -- convince each other but we can certainly come out and articulate the issues. and i think that we -- elizabeth and i can come up and i think democrats and republicans, i think that's what we should do. set aside those poison items and

get down to trying to influence a transformation of health care. cover the uninsured. fix the insurance companies. do something chronic illnesses and get a tax credit so individual par people that -- uninsured or underinsured can buy health insurance in america. we would fix this problem. >> larry: why don't both parties appoint the two of you inform sit down in a conference room and come out and with whatever you decide, that's it. we will be back with more right after this. going to miss when you have an allergy attack? achoo! (announcer) benadryl is more effective than claritin at relieving your worst symptoms. and works when you need it most. benadryl. you can't pause life. vvo: when you can serve yourat family breakfast from walmart, vo: for a little over $2 a person. mom: just one breakfast a week and the savings really add up. save money. live better. walmart.

>> larry: elizabeth edwards, you have breast cancer. tommy thompson, your wife and daughter both had breast cancer. for both of you, how does that affect your thinking in this? elizabeth? >> you know, a lot of people that have breast cancer come up to me and one of people that came up to me in cleveland in 2007 was a working mother. and who was -- said she was afraid for her children because she couldn't go to the doctor despite the fact she found a lump in her breast. she was whispering in my ear because she hoped that in america, you still had the power to whisper in the right person's ear and get the kind of changes you needed. it is unconscionable in a country of this wealth of working mother cannot afford to buy the health insurance that will protect her and allow her to be continue to be a good mother to her children. >> larry: one of the skis the right to help -- >> i believe we do. and i agree with elizabeth. we should have health insurance for mothers and there are many ways to do it. a tax credit for low-income

individuals to purchase health insurance, save so much more money and be the right thing to do. many new companies and innovation instead and sexually transmitted diseases can -- break the barriers. and there's companies like -- the guy asked me going from $500 to $2500, set up policies everybody can be covered and hold down costs. there's so much innovation out there, larry. that is good for breast cancer patients and individuals like my wife and daughter who have had it. like elizabeth still does. that we should be able to put the kind of dollars and research in order to do that. we can fix the system. let's not damage the system by bringing in a public plan that's going to, i think, hurt and prevent really revolutionary transformation of health care in america. >> larry: what do you think will happen, elizabeth? >> i hope that -- i -- with tommy the whole way until the last thing he said which i think is more of the fearmongering.

14,000 americans lose their health insurance every day. and they lose it because it is too expensive. so unless we create a provider that's going to have -- cost accessible health insurance which is apparently not going to be possible with these private insurers. it is not possible today. right now they have the most motivation of all time to make certain the people are not losing their coverage. yet, they will not provide -- they will not provide a cost-efficient -- we can't do it -- i think it is -- sounds like a great idea. let's do a tax rebate. i mean, a refundable tax credit to people who -- so they can get health insurance. are we going to give families $18,000 a year to pay for their health insurance next year? that's the average cost of insurance. >> we don't have to. >> of course we have to. that's the average cost of insurance. >> you put out -- you put out private -- put private insurance out of the competitive basis and be down $4,000. refundable tax credit will cover that and you will be able to

solve a lot of the problems. get a lot of the uninsured. the problem is -- >> that's not just realistic, tommy. >> it is, elizabeth. it is very realistic. like we did on part d. we put drugs out for competitive bids and stabilized the drug prices. you put out the bids for all the uninsured in every state and have the states hold and allow insurance companies to come in and bid on that, you will drive down the cost and put a refundable credit in for those individuals under 125% of poverty and we can cover everybody in america. that's what you want, that's what i want and we can do it without the government running the health insurance. >> when the republicans were in charge of doing something about health care, it was -- what they did was -- just what you said. prescription drug benefits for seniors, what they decided was the federal government could not negotiate the lowest possible price. protected -- protected the company and to the disadvantage of the american consumers. again, we are seeing republicans protecting the companies,

insurance companies, to the disadvantage of the american consumer. >> republicans want to protect health care in america and democrats want to destroy it. if you want to call it radical rhetoric, elizabeth -- then let's fix the system. let's not destroy it. let's not have the government control health care -- people don't want -- people don't want it. >> larry: let's have both of you come back. you are both terrific. elizabeth, will you allow me just two quick personal questions? >> sure, sir. >> larry: you were so candid in the past about the impact of your husband's problems and your relationship. how are things going? >> things are going fine. we are getting the children ready for a new school year. everything seems to be going pretty smoothly at my house. thanks for asking. >> larry: continued questions about the paternity factor. is there any solution there? dna tests, do you know if anything will happen? >> my expectation is that at some point something happens and i -- i hope for the sake of this child that it happens, you know

in a quiet way. >> larry: how is your health? >> pretty good. i'm still here fighting. >> larry: you are stage four, though, right? >> yes. yes. you know, the numbers don't look that optimistic but i feel good and my -- hi recent tests that show me -- in pretty good health, all things considered. >> larry: tommy, your family, how are they? >> first off, i would like to say, elizabeth we are pulling for and you praying for you. keep fighting. we think you are a great model and you are wrong on public insurance but you are right on fighting for breast cancer. my wife and daughter, thank the good lord, are doing well. and -- >> that's great. >> both working and doing great. and -- this is one thing that is a common bond. husbands and wives and children and that have -- go through cancer. whether it be breast cancer or any other kind of cancer, we have to deal with it and we have to find a cure for it.

it is ridiculous in america. that we don't have a cure for breast cancer. >> larry: thank you. >> when i was running for president, i had a motto we will cure breast cancer by the year 2015. we can do it if we set our sights to do it. >> larry: thanks both very much. elizabeth edwards and tommy thompson. we change gears. bill cosby next. thank you, guys. when she gives me that look. when at last we're alone. when we both decide. announcer: today, guys with erectile dysfunction can be ready with another dosing option from cialis. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right. so relax and take your time. tell your doctor about your medical condition and all medications and ask if you're healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. don't drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or

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these are our children. and we need no more cuts. we need help. >> larry: good news and bad news from the state of pennsylvania. good news, 50 state study of test results by the center on edge indication policy chose pennsylvania as the only state to see increases in student achievement in elementary, mid and high school from 2002 through 2008. the bad news. protracted and very partisan state budget impasse including a fate over public education funding might throw all of this into a turmoil. joining us from philadelphia, bill cosby. the famed actor, comedian, education activist and doctorate in education and, of course, best-selling author as well. in harrisburg, pen, our friend the governor of pennsylvania, ed rendell. what do those test results show to you, bill? >> you -- well, it means that we have made a great improvement

over the years that rent has been in office. and he will give you the mums. he sounds a lot better than i because he lived with them. the most important thing is with the improvements that we are making in the position we are in, why would anyone want to now make a cut or make cuts in something that is running towards perhaps 100% instead of 70%? >> larry: this has national implications. school systems all over the country are facing budget cuts. california is in a crisis. ed, what do you about it? it is a financial question. where does the money come from? >> well, i think we have to make choices, larry. one of the choices we have to make is for our future. our future depends on edge indication. you know, we used to compete

against delaware, west virginia, new york, new jersey, and we are competing against china, india, singapore, and those countries are just off the charts in educational advancement. we have to keep up and the good news is we have done a great job of pennsylvania and because the legislature and administration together invested over $3 billion of addition am funding on an annual basis for education. but now the crunch time rolls ruined and the republicans and senate say that no new revenue and we want to cut, cut, cut and we want to cut a billion dollars out of public education. i say that we have to make cuts and we made $2.5 billion in those cuts. we need to protect education and that means that raising reasonable revenues. getting rid of some of our sales tax exemptions as a possibility. there are a number of ways without hurting the public handling we can raise revenue. >> larry: bill, do you get what you pay for in education? the more you spend, do you get better schools, better education, kids? >> no. we need more money. for instance, it is $4,000 per

child. however, costs have gone up and costs continue to go up. you can't pay $2,500 for a brand-new car. so the important thing is that it costs $33,000 a year to keep a person in prison. well, let's look at the facts that we know. if someone by third grade is not doing well, people who have been in prisons look at the numbers of the children not doing well and they begin to build more prisons according to children who are not doing well in third grade. so i think that 8,000 per child would do very, very well because then had would only be spending a smaller amount on the people who would be incarcerated and we

would lose those huge numbers. >> larry: let me get a break and we will come right back with bill cosby and governor ed rendell of pennsylvania.

>> larry: national problem, focussing on pennsylvania. we reached out, by the way, to pennsylvania's majority leader and his office provided this statement.

senate republicans advanced a proposal to increase public education funding by 14.1%. the governor's proposal would increase education funding even further but it would require a massive tax increase. how do you respond, ed? >> first of all, they are not telling thank you truth, larry. what they are use sing stimulus funds and they count the special education and title one money as an increase. as you know, special ed money can only be used for special students which are about 5% of the student population and in title one money can only go into schools that have the high percentage of poverty cases. 60% of the schools in pennsylvania don't even get title one money. that's number one. number two, they use the stimulus money to roll back the state level of education funding to '05, '06. when the stimulus goes away without it leave a billion dollar hole. there is no way the school districts can make that up. they are not telling the truth, number one. number two, every superintendent and every school board president and republican areas have said

that it would be disastrous for education and we need to follow our budget which continues to invest in education. and -- it is clear. >> larry: bill, philosophically speaking, what is good teacher worth? what's education worth? couldn't we say no matter what you spend it is well spent you are educating our children. i mean, you can get out of hand with this, couldn't you? >> i don't know what you just dealt me. but -- >> larry: what i dealt you with is -- >> well, it is how you spend the money also. i me, look -- larry, politicians have used education to have people vote them into office and they have used the lottery and we are going to give you better schools and more money for education and they use that so that there can be a state lottery. they have used it all kinds of ways and now because they don't

want it, they now want to use a scare tactics to scare tactic. i'm looking at children that need better food in schools and they don't need this junk that they are being fed. i can get into that later. but that has to do with the health care. and it has to could with whether the children can think properly. and our teachers, people who come out of college, who want to be teachers, don't do that, larry, because they want to get money and become rich. and retire. they do it because they want it to children. and it is very, very important. some of the things that we are losing in our schools the way a school looks, the way a school feels, the way the books are not right, give children a feeling

that education is not important. it gives a feeling to the children that nobody cares. why should i so they become highly truant and it is very, very important. stop cutting our education money. >> larry: ed, i can make a case, there's nothing more important than educating your children. >> there isn't. but you know, a very good point. it is not just throwing money after education. one of the things we are proud of in pennsylvania is we invested in the right things. pre-kindergarten, smaller class sizes, after-tutoring. it makes it's easier for kids to get up to grade level in reading and math and so you are going to target that money to programs that we know work. we shouldn't just spend willy-nilly. i'm against that. as much as i'm for education funding. we have done tonight pennsylvania and the senator should be proud of what we have done because he has been a part of it. >> larry: we are going to do a lot more on this. obviously this deserve as lot of

attention. we intend to give it a lot more on "larry king live." bill cosby, governor ed rendell. the british government has released more of their previously confidential ufo files. what's that? we will find out what's in those files next. but i did. you need to talk to your doctor about aspirin. you need to be your own advocate. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. you take care of your kids, now it's time to take care of yourself.

there's no way to hide it. sir, have you been drinking tonight? if you ride drunk, you will get caught... and you will get arrested. >> larry: have you seen this week's "newsweek"? nasa is looking for aliens. the british government unleased more of their confidential ufo files. are we closer than ever than confirm extraterrestrial life? joining us with the latest news about space is dr. seth. a skeptic and senior astronomer. and author of "confessions of an alien hunter." in san francisco, james spock, filmmaker, ufo researcher. his new documentary, i know what

i saw, premieres october 5 on the history channel. in london, nick pope. used to run the british government's ufo project. we have to take a quick break and we will be right back. >> spaceship documenting close encounters and mysterious incidents. the u.k. national archives released another batch of the government's x-files. listing more than 800 ufo sightings reported between 1993 and 1996. the 14 new files debunks other incidents but also show some sightings are just plain strange. and unexplained. sfx: coin drop, can shaking

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anderson cooper will host "a.c. 360." excuse me. i got a laughing kick here. anderson, what's up tonight? >> larry, a lot ahead. less than an hour the polls will open in afghanistan. historical election and taliban trying to stop the violence and threats against poll workers. taking you live to afghanistan. also tonight the latest the mystery involving a murdered swimsuit model found stuffed into a suitcase. police say she was starangled. they want to talk to her former husband, former reality show contestant. details on that. and new developments from the michael jackson investigation. l.a. core onlyter at dr. klein's office today. what it means about the investigation. those stories and a lot more

ahead on "360." >> larry: the new nasa mission is going to apparently maybe find these things. lead story in "newsweek." what do you make of it? things that happened in >> one of the more important things that happened in astronomy for decades because it is going to answer one question. how many cousins of earths are there out there? how many plan receipts out there in the universe that are something like the earth. >> larry: do you think they may be inhabitable? >> you don't know. all you know is they are the right size, right place, they could be. >> larry: james, do you salute this? >> you know, i do sometimes when you look for something that could be right under your nose. i'm not saying that ufos are of extraterrestrial origin but through the process of elimination doesn't appear to be -- excuse me, explanation a lot of times. >> larry: nick, what's the british government saying about this? does it say that there are, there are, extraterrestrials? >> no. the position of the british

government is that it remains open-minded about the possibilities. it looked at the ufo phenomenon for several decades. we found no absolute proof positive of any extraterrestrial visitation. but we have found consistently over the years some extremely interesting sightings that we couldn't explain in conventional terms. that's why i support any scientific effort to study this. >> larry: why isn't the united states more open about this, like britain is. at least saying, hey, it might be there? >> well a lot of stuff has been released by the freedom of information act. it is the case that, you know, you have to consider well, why is it that all the evidence is stacked up on the u.s. government? the same government that runs fema. they are doing a heck of a job of the ufos. have they covered it all up? i can hardly believe the government has that much to say about it. >> larry: james, you did the documentary "i know what i saw," premieres october 5th. what do you believe, james? >> i believe that there are

structured craft of unknown origin whizzing around in our air space whose flight characteristics are so beyond anything we have had. this is well documented the last 60 jeer -- years. i wanted to say we managed to obtain an interview done in 1979 by the person who investigated ufos for 20 years for the u.s. air force. his job was to give an explanation. when there clearly wasn't sometimes. and he recanted what he had done for the air force and on the record tied, stating that we more than likely were being visited and the flight performances of these things were so far beyond anything we have. and i'm not saying that they're e.t., but i am saying we can no longer deny. the debate will shift from do they exist to who's actually piloting these things. >> larry: nick, you were part of the effort to track ufo sighting. what are they doing there? what are they finding?

what is it all about? >> one could speculate endlessly. we look at it purely as a defense and national security issue. and to a lesser extent, we do have case where is these things come dangerously close to aircraft as a flight safety issue. but i'm not sure we at the ministry thought it was going to be profitable to speculate too much. our unit was a very small one. and a lot of people who said well, you shouldn't be wasting taxpayer money on this sort of stuff anyway. so we tended to down play even ourselves sometimes. look, if there's something in our air space we need to know what it is. and particularly if it's flight characteristic suggests some sort of technology, whether that technology is soviet or

whatever, obviously we're interested in things like aerodynamics and propulsion spms. >> larry: your new documentary, james, "i know what i saw" assembles accounts from various ufo witnesses from around the world. nick pope is one of them. let's take a look. >> it glided over my house and there was absolutely no noise. >> we saw what i thought to be a kind of boomerang shape. >> i'm fife siymington. in my second year as governor, i saw something that defied reality. >> i saw one, but it disappeared. >> larry: when we come back, i'll ask what theories he might support to explain all this. don't go away. paying their credit card or putting food on the table.

our main objective is to reach out to the customers that are falling behind on their payments. a lot of customers are proud and happy that bank of america actually has a solution to help them out. i listen. that's the first thing i do is i listen. you know what, what happened? what put you in this situation? we always want to make sure that we're doing i'll go through some of his monthly expenses, if he has a mortgage payment, if he pays rent. and then i'll use all that information to try and see what kind of a payment he financially can handle. i want to help you. bank of america wants to help you through this difficult time. when they come to you and they say thank you aj, for helping me with this problem, that's where we get our joy from.

>> larry: i'm certainly open to this. i'm not going to discount it. anything is possible. i think the public wants there to be something there. i don't think the government is afraid we would panic. i don't buy that theory. what theory do you support? >> i think there's plenty of life in space. one of the things we've learned, there are probably a trillion planets not in our galaxy. i think there's plenty of life out there, but if you're going to claim there's life here,

where's the evidence we can stack up in the smithsonian, i don't see it. >> larry: why do they hide it? >> i address that issue in the film. apparently, we don't necessarily have control of our air space and no governing body wants to admit that. they fly rings around our fastest jets and have been doing so for over six decades. >> larry: if they're control ourg air space, to what avail? they seem -- we seem to fly and land okay. >> i wouldn't say they control our air space. there has been, as james said, plenty of encounters over the years where commercial pilots and military pilots have actually seen these things up close and personal. and where there's corroborating evidence in terms of radar, but i guess what i would like to

see, it always strikes me as somebody with 21 years in government that actually the ufo community and the seti community are arguably looking for the same thing but in different places and with different methodologies. i guess i would like to see them reach out to each other a little bit. >> would you do me a favor, please. >> larry: why not? >> i'm open to that. and, in fact, i almost consider myself a part-time ufo investigator because larry, every day i get e-mails, phone calls and -- well, telephone calls and e-mails of people having difficulty with aliens in their personal live i can't think of a single example where i thought this is a hoax. >> larry: jam, what were you going to say? >> well, i would say that the very person whose job it was to debunk ufos for 22 years did a 180 and basically i came out in 1979 and earlier saying that these things clearly did not

appear to be of terrestrial origin because of the nature of their flight characteristics. >> does that convince you? >> i'm not saying i'm a complete believer myself, but there's unambiguous accounts. and radar and photographs and multieyewitness accounts. there's got to be some sort of explanation. if it's not us, who is it? someone has been in possession of this technology for over 60 years and if they have, they near possession of revolutionary technology. if they're not, then we're being visited. . >> larry: nick, do you want to believe? >> well, like seth, i'm convinced there must be life out there. i think it might be one of the most stupendous discoveries of all time. i think it would be a boring and lonely universe if we were the only life. and after all it's one of those great fundamental questions, isn't it? are we alone or not?

>> larry: so we've been boring all this time because we don't know, right, seth? it's a boring world. >> it may change. within 10 or 20 years maybe we'll have an answer. >> larry: james, quickly. >> quick question, seth. how can you explain what people are seeing? airline pilots, radar operators, military guys? and these are unambiguous case where is some of them they've actually touched these things. what are they, seth, in your opinion? have you talked to witnesses? >> larry: quickly. >> i have. but the fact that they're unexplained doesn't mean they're alien visitor. they're simply unexplained. there are a lot of unexplained murders murders in los angeles. >> larry: don hewitt, the man who produced "60 minutes" for 60 years died today of pancreatic cancer. what a showman a heck of a